Latest / Deep Trope Fantasy & Romance Podcast / LGBTQIA+ Representation in Fantasy & Romance Books
Transcript
- Rachel: Welcome to Deep Trope, where we go deep into fantasy and romance books, one trope at a time. We're your two book besties, gushing over plot characters, Easter eggs theories, and of course, our favorite spicy moments. I'm Rachel, romantasy theorist. Kate: And I'm Kate, lover of all things dark and spicy. And in Celebration of Pride, we wanted to do a special episode raving about some of our favorite queer books and discussing some queer representation in the romantasy genre. So to start things off, did want to give a little bit of context for my background so that you can understand kind of the perspective that I'm coming from. So I met my husband when I was 19, pretty young, and he ended up being my favorite person in the whole world. So I kept him around. ⁓ but ⁓ I don't think that like his gender would crack the list of like top reasons why we're together. and, you know, like I was pretty young, like I said, when I met him. So I didn't spend a ton of time exploring my sexuality, but I know for sure that I am not straight thanks to some very enjoyable experiences at as a teenager. ⁓ so I think maybe like buyer pan probably fits best. I don't know. Labels are are hard. But anyway, probably TMI. But I think that, you know, maybe it's helpful context for my perspective on this particular topic. Rachel: That is helpful. And I think we believe that sexuality is sort of a spectrum. So I totally understand not wanting to like put a label on it, you know. I personally unfortunately identify as straight. Kate: ⁓ absolutely. Absolutely. ⁓ It's tough out there. Rachel: I know, it's so unfortunate. Just can't get away from these dicks. But Kate: Ha ha Rachel: but I am an ally for all members of the queer community and you know, I wanna use any and all opportunities to celebrate the community and pride is an especially good reason. Kate: It absolutely is. I love that we have this excuse every year. But ⁓ yeah, I d I feel that though. I mean, I I I'm a firm believer that I feel like every woman is like a l at least a little bit gay because women are amazing. Like they're you like women are they're so beautiful, they're just incredible, they're so strong, they're I don't know, it's just like like how can you not love a woman? But I feel like so many women that I know are like like straight women that love men despite or in spite of like all of their instincts to the contrary. You know, it's like like that's one of the things like you you know that sexuality is not a choice with how many women love men. You know? Like if we had the choice Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, none of us are choosing this life. Like how many times, I feel like so many times when I get together with my girlfriends, you know, we kind of joke about if, you know, something would happen that we would be single one day. ⁓ we would just live on like a commune together, raising one another's children in a very platonic way. ⁓ I don't know. Yes, yes, we'd create our own micro matriarchal society. Kate: Yeah. But like very matriarchal. Yeah. Yeah, like listen, it's just yeah, if if you think that women would actively choose to be attracted to men with everything everything that goes along with that, I mean it I I just don't think it would happen. So anyway. Rachel: It all well, I guess I'll also end this with ⁓ obviously it also proves the existence of true love because you apparently have all of the options, all of the flavors at your disposal, and you're still married to a man. Kate: It it's true. I mean, listen, mine's I I have to say I think mine is special. I think everybody everybody probably thinks that, but my man is very special. most our are are queer ⁓ and ⁓ there's just something I don't I don't that my husband really ⁓ enjoys the company of most other straight men either, honestly. ⁓ so but I feel like that's something that like a lot of a lot of the bi community I think probably relates to is like we love every woman and then like one man. Rachel: That that is a special kind of guy. Okay, that's fair. Kate: And I I found I found the man. So I guess I'm I'm lucky in that way. But but yeah, it is it is true that like I mean when you find your person you find them and it's ⁓ you you don't have a whole lot of control over that, I don't think. But anyway, also, I mean, listen the queer community is fun. It's just fun. Rachel: Yeah, yeah, true. Kate: And if you don't consider yourself an ally, you're just denying yourself joy and fun in your life. And that's depressing and dumb. So Rachel: And then Kate: So just embrace it. Embrace the joy. Embrace the love. And let's let's talk about how some of the romantic books are doing that. ⁓ so queer representation in the romance and romantasy genres has, I think, enjoyed a bit of an explosion ⁓ in in recent years. We are seeing a lot more of what I would Rachel: All right. Kate: call like queer normative worlds that are popping up in a lot of of popular series these days. So I think like a lot of authors have kind of decided that if they're going to create a fantasy world where anything is technically possible, then they're just going to make a world where homophobia doesn't exist. So in these books, Queerness is like not a point of contention or a shameful secret. There's no like coming out plot lines. ⁓ it's typically portrayed just very casually or even offhandedly. So kind of no differently than like a heterosexual relationship would be in a story. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: ⁓ and we've seen this kind of representation in some of the most popular romantasy series of late, including the Empyrean series, ⁓ Wolves of Ruin series, Shield of Sparrows, even in the Maasverse. ⁓ and like I said, I love the idea of a queer norm society, ⁓ I desperately wish that it wasn't a fantasy. ⁓ we didn't have to just make it up in these these fantasy worlds. But ⁓ Rachel: And ⁓ like I said, I love the idea. Yeah. Kate: ⁓ the reality is that these series also don't necessarily center on queerness though. You know, like it's kind of like it's in the background, it's again very normalized, which is great. but they're typically side characters, at least in the in the very popular series that we see most often. ⁓ like the main love story is still often heterosexual. So Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: While there are more and more queer-centered romantasy books coming out all the time, which I love to see, we're gonna talk about some of them in a minute, ⁓ I would still like to see of them reach like an ACOTAR or Fourth Wing level of popularity. So ⁓ Rachel: Yeah, I I d I feel you. It's definitely I think refreshing ⁓ romantasy books feature queer characters in such a normal way, where it's not questioned in any way, ⁓ And ⁓ like you said, I love that it's it's just a normal part of these fantasy worlds. But there's obviously room for growth and there's opportunity for more and ⁓ more main characters that are queer rather than sort of these side characters. Like while the side characters show that it's a normal part of the society that exists in these fantasy worlds, having as a main character is a totally different experience. And as I've been reading books this month that focus around that, it's definitely helped me sort of like understand their perspective a little bit more. So you know, I think it's definitely something that ⁓ I hope to see grow in this genre. Kate: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like like I would love to get a novel from some of these characters' perspectives. I would love to get like, my gosh, an entire book from Ridoc. It would be chaos, but I feel like I would love it. ⁓ Rachel: Right. I yes. Yes. We have all of our theories about Empyrean Not book four Novella is going to be about. And one thing that we have not explored but would be amazing if it was just like Ridoc and Aotrom Kate: ⁓ my god. That would be hilarious. That would be so that would be so fun. I feel like like so much of the Empyrean series, especially in the later books, is like getting so dark. I would love just a splash of that whimsy that I feel like they would bring. Rachel: Yeah, that would be fun. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would love that. What and if we don't get it in this one, maybe we could get like a post series novella. That would be fun. Kate: Yeah, we should start like a fan petition to get a Ridoc Aotrom novella. Rachel: Ha ha ha. Yes. so Kate, you have read a lot more queer books than I have. Like I honestly, it has not been something that was a focus for me. It's I'm not it's not necessarily that I haven't read queer love stories, ⁓ but I haven't intentionally sought them out necessarily until now. This month I wanted to like really focus on queer fantasies, romantasies written by members of the LGBTQIA plus community. ⁓ but w could you share with me some of your favorite queer reads? Cause like I feel like you're not necessarily an expert in in this space, but you certainly have read a lot more than I have. And I think you would probably have some great recommendations. Kate: Yeah, I I probably just yeah, I have a little bit more experience in this genre, I think. But ⁓ if I'm being totally honest, the first queer stories that I read were Drarry fanfics. as a teenager, like or as a tween, I was obsessed with the enemies to lovers trope, like even back then. And honestly, nothing has really changed. if I look at what what I Rachel: Mm. Yeah, that's fair. Kate: Who are the books that I like now? That's still, I think, my favorite trope. But beyond the fan fiction, my first queer novel ⁓ was a book called Something Like Summer by Jay Bell. ⁓ and this was a super angsty gay romance ⁓ that follows two boys, Ben and Tim, from their kind of burgeoning high school romance through many, many trials and tribulations, like over years. ⁓ of their kind of back and forth relationship all the way through adulthood. And Ben is openly out as gay, but Tim is closeted at the beginning of their relationship, hence all of the angst. And I really loved this book when I read it in high school and it lit a fire under me to read some more queer stories. So while we definitely don't have time to go into all of them. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: I think I'll do like a quick rundown of some of my favorites for anyone looking for some recommendations, like maybe yourself. So for I I kind of have it broken down into two groups. If you're looking for a good love story, and okay, all of these have spice. Let's be honest, they're coming from me. But if you're looking for something that also has a good love story along with the spice, ⁓ call me basic. Okay. Rachel: Okay. Yeah. Kate: The Heated Rivalry by Rachel Reid. This one is popular for a reason, okay? It's fucking good. It just is. Yeah. Rachel: I mean, I loved it. I loved it. So and I loved the book. Like I watched I read the book before I watched the T V show. I loved the book. And then the T V show just took it to the next level just 'cause it the cinematography was like fantasti it was just so well done. Kate: Mm-hmm. Yeah, the book is good. ⁓ yeah. They visualized that book perfectly for me. So so yeah. I mean, listen, sometimes the hype is worth it. Okay. And this is one of those those times. It's it's just fucking good. ⁓ and it's good fucking. ⁓ but I'll but yeah, it does have that that beautiful love story. I also this is one that I feel like you might enjoy because I know that you like historical romance sometimes. Rachel: Yes. Ooh, okay. Kate: So this one is The Will Darling Adventures by KJ Charles. This is a historical MM romance set in the 1920s that fall in like post-war London times. ⁓ and it follows a working class World War One vet and a disgraced aristocrat as they navigate like criminal conspiracies, espionage, like some spy shit, and it's a slow burn romance. Rachel: I mean that sounds fantastic. I do love a historical romance. Kate: Yeah, I think you would really enjoy this one. Yeah. So I think yeah, I think this one you would really like. ⁓ and again, you just ⁓ get some of that tension with the slow burn that is really great. And it's just a a good love story, you know. and then the last one that I have on my list for again just a good Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: love story that really pulls on your heartstrings. This one is Forget Me Not by Alison Derrick. It's a contemporary sapphic romance about two women who have to find their way back to each other after one of them loses her memory. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: I know, I know. You also like a memory loss one. So I feel like I pick you know, I might have picked some of these with you in mind, but but this one was like it was heartbreaking. but it was again still just like a beautiful love story. It got really deep into kind of Rachel: I think you did. Kate: why you love someone and how that can kind of transcend all of these problems and all of these other obstacles that come up, you know? And it is contemporary. I know that sometimes that's not your favorite, but I think you can give this one a try. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: ⁓ and then if you're looking for something that's a little more spice forward than love story forward, ⁓ I have some recommendations for that as well. ⁓ so one a series that I kind of just stumbled into ⁓ while kind of just browsing some Kindle Unlimited options years ago. is a series called Elite Protective Services by Onley James. And this series follows like various beefy employees a private protection agency and their many intense and often forbidden romantic entanglements. So the forbidden romance part of it is is really fun in this one. And also ⁓ this where I fell for the bodyguard trope. Rachel: Okay. Well, I also love the bodyguard trope. Kate, did you This is amazing. I feel like you literally are just picking out a list for me. I love it. And n funny that you say Onley James, because I think I told you this, but Axe Harlson sent me this by Onley James. It's Unhinged, which is part of the necessary evils. So if you're a big fan of Onley James, that it's good to know. Kate: I know you do. Nice. Yeah, I mean these ones again, they're very spicy, very like they're angsty, but not in like a very complicated kind of way. You know, they just have some angsty characters. ⁓ but yeah, they're fun. They're fun. and then one that ⁓ kind of gets into the ⁓ religious Rachel: That's good. That's the that's the second Okay. Kate: forbidden romance side of things is Saint by Sierra Simone. ⁓ Sierra Simone has a like this is kind of part of a a series or a collection. ⁓ yeah it's the it's part of the the priest collection. So I I read this one kind of independently. They are kind of connected but I think that you could kind of treat them as standalones ⁓ because I didn't read the other ones in this collection, but but I think there's like some common characters that come up in a few of them. So anyway, this one follows a monk, like literally a monk, who's in love with his older brother's best friend, which is a trope that I also really enjoy. and ⁓ he's fighting to choose between his overwhelming need for both Rachel: Okay. Kate: This like religious peace that he has found as a monk and his overwhelming sexual desires. So forbidden romance is definitely the biggest trope in this one for not only the like religious aspect of like he's supposed to be celibate, but also the older brother's best friend thing. You know, there's like a few levels to this forbidden romance, ⁓ and it's spicy. Rachel: Okay. Yes. Did he become a monk because he was in love with this guy and he thought that like he wouldn't be interested in him? Or can you not tell me? Kate: Well, no, I mean, so like they they had a romance, like they w they had a a romantic entanglement before he became a monk. But he he felt like his life was like going off the rails and he needed like the stability and the peace of mind and just like the the structure, I think, of that monastic lifestyle. and so it kind of like he kind of felt like like if I don't Rachel: ⁓ Kate: follow this path, then like my life is just gonna go completely off the rails. So he feels very connected to to that and he's found a lot of peace in that, but his peace is definitely disrupted by his aggressively horny attraction to this man. So Rachel: Right. Well, and I think Kris K. Haines recommended that series as well. I think she was reading a book in that series. So alright. So basically, you have a lot of recommendations here that sound right up my alley. so I guess I'm, you know, I've got my list cut out for me. Kate: I think so I think she did, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I know, but I'm interested in what you've been reading because you have some good ones that you picked for your your reading list this month that I haven't read yet. Rachel: Yes, so like I said, I really wanted to prioritize queer stories written by queer authors. ⁓ I loved heated rivalry, and I think it's great. I don't think there's anything wrong with necessarily ⁓ queer characters being written by people who aren't queer. ⁓ but I just think it's a different perspective. And especially for Pride Month, I really wanted to, you know, support queer authors as well. So There's two books that I've been reading. The first one is a very short book that has been taking me longer than I expected because ⁓ I started crying pretty much as soon as I started reading. Kate: ⁓ no Rachel: and that book is called We Burned So Bright by TJ Klune So I've been wanting to read books by TJ Klune for a while. I've heard great things about his writing style, and I can definitely say it's true, it's all true. Like he's he writes in this like cozy, comforting way. And it's also like he like beautifully describes like thoughts and emotions. and this is a beautiful story about an elderly gay couple coping with the end of the world. So on page one, we learn that there is a rogue black hole that will swallow up the earth in 30 days. And the world is obviously in shambles. And Rodney and Don embark on a road trip to tie up some loose ends before the end of the world. And so the story is like, you know, you're gonna learn about what that loose end is, and that's kind of the mystery as you're also watching the universe collapse, like chapter three, Uranus is gone. You know what mean? ⁓ so it's like you feel that impending doom that they're experiencing, but also trying to like. Kate: ⁓ wow. Rachel: create purpose and still have purpose when everything is about to be gone. so we see their love story sort of play out through memories and we also see again how those individuals can how people can still find meaning ⁓ at the end of the world. And again, it's a short book. I'm sure I'll finish it soon, but ⁓ it is one of those that you can only kind of read in like small increments, I think personally. ⁓ Kate: It's emotionally taxing. Rachel: Yes. Yeah. Kate: Have you ⁓ have you seen that movie Melancholia? Rachel: No, 'cause it sounds like also something that would be a lot for me. Kate: Well, I mean it just like the premise of like kind of people existing in the reality of their impending doom. It's it's a similar theme there. But ⁓ yeah, that sounds beautiful because 'cause really it like I don't know. I feel like there's so many people that have tried since the the beginning of time to figure out like the meaning of life. And I don't know, like Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: How could it be anything other than love? Rachel: Right. Right. That yes. That is what I tell myself when I wake up panicked in the middle of the night, thinking about death and eternity. Kate: You know, like ⁓ girl, are you okay? ha. Rachel: You're saying that doesn't happen to everybody? Kate: I mean I don't I mean not that like, you know, I I have my existential dread moments for sure, but I don't know that I've woken up in the middle of the night thinking about death recently. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Well, I don't not saying this is like a daily occurrence. I'm just saying that being raised in the evangelical church during the nineties and early aughts was a wild time. And I will say that that Kate: Yeah. Rachel: sticks with a person. Kate: ⁓ I'm I have absolutely seen firsthand how religious trauma can fuck someone up. So okay, I get it. If that's if that's the context, I understand. Rachel: But no, well all I'm saying though is like regardless of your religion or beliefs or anything, I think that's something that we can all agree on is like love has to be the purpose and the meaning and the thing that gives us purpose and meaning. Kate: It's absolutely yeah. I I I can't think of anything else that has any greater meaning in life. So So anyway, that sounds beautiful. Rachel: Right. Yeah, it's I mean, it is so far, so full review to come. ⁓ Okay, let me tell you about the other book I've been reading, which is really, really like right up my alley. Cause you know The TJ Klune book, I would say it's not it's hopefully something that won't happen, but in theory it could happen. Kate: I mean, who the fuck knows? Rachel: Whereas, you know, the unmagical life of Briar Jones, which is the other book I'm reading, is an actual fantasy. So this is by Lex Croucher, who is a non-binary author and out as non-binary. ⁓ and the main character is non-binary, which I've literally never read any book with a main character that's non-binary before. ⁓ certainly not in the fantasy space, especially. So let me give you the background on the book. 11-year-old Briar Jones is desperate to attend Britain's elite magical private school. When their best friend and maybe soulmate, Seb gets in and they don't, they are crushed, especially when Seb abandons them without a word. Seven years later, Kate: ⁓ ghosting. Ghosting at eleven years old? That is wild work. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it turns out there's more to the story. So seven years later, Briar gets a summer job at this school and learns what secrets the school hides and discovers that Seb is now evil and going by the name Bastian. also maybe Seb didn't actually abandon them. Kate: Okay, okay. Rachel: School just started earlier than they realized. So there's a little bit of a miscommunication trope happening. I know that you're not a fan of that, but it's done in like such a good way. I think that you would love this book. I mean, it is. Did you watch the the magicians? Kate: I did see some of that. I don't remember if I saw the whole thing. Rachel: Okay, I feel like the school is like the vibe of that school, kind of. Like, or like I'm imagining the book with those kind of vibes. Like it's like current modern today setting, private school, very elite. It's based on Eton, which is like the private school, most prestigious one in the UK. And ⁓ the vibes of the book are just very dark academia. Kate: Mm, mm. Rachel: So the book takes place over the summer. Briar works at the school as like their summer job, but school's still in session because they just basically school's always in session. They don't have summer break. ⁓ but there's a weird sort of like Lost Boys summer whimsy vibe that reminds me of Skins. Did you watch Skins? Kate: I did watch skin well, I watched like the original UK skins. Yeah. Mm hmm. Rachel: That's sort of what I'm talking about. The very first season with Tony, the tone of Briar's tone of voice kind of reminds me of like Tony's ⁓ tone of voice. And maybe it's just like how British teenagers are. but it's sort of that that vibe. And they have they make like a group of friends at the school that is also it's sort of like the queer kids. Like it's, you know, ⁓ Kate: Yeah. Mm. Rachel: Sort of like the this like group of outcasts that become friends with them and they like go to the pub and they get up to shenanigans together. ⁓ but they're also uncovering like some really dark stuff. Like there's ⁓ just like hazing rituals and kind of combining the private magical school with the class's social structures that already exist in Britain. And it's this story of like the haves and the have-nots and how those in Rose to power, how they maintain power, and like the lengths that they will go to to maintain power. And it's it it gets very dark. I I'm like eating this book up. It's very good. Kate: It sounds awesome. It sounds like something I would really enjoy. And like we said, like these are the kinds of fantasy books that we want to be popular. ⁓ Rachel: Yeah, exactly. I think it you can tell reading it that Lex Croucher is writing from their experience. I think. I mean, maybe a very good author could ⁓ accomplish this without it being from their experience as well. But there's just certain details and interactions of like everyday occurrences that most people might not think about that Briar's experiencing, so you're experiencing along with them. So for instance, when they go to the school, they get free room and board, right? And that means they're living in the student dorms. So they have this moment thinking, ⁓ where are they gonna put me? The boys' dorms or the girls' dorms, ⁓ and they kind of ha have this internal panic. And then when they're put in the boys' dorms, they're like, Well, boys a lot of times kind of mind their own business, so it might not be too bad there. And the character also like grew up Fighting people at school, like fighting bullies, and it becomes just like a very ⁓ important part of the character and the character development. ⁓ there's just like different interactions like that, like people not knowing how to categorize them, being confused, like in language, like there's an interaction where they're with the headmaster, and somebody's saying, they this and they that, and the headmaster's like, Who's the other person? And they're like, No, I'm talking about Briar. You know, and it's just ⁓ I'm finding a very interesting way to exp understand, better understand the non-binary perspective. Kate: Yeah. Yeah, no, that sounds like a a great queer fantasy that I will definitely borrow from you when you're done. and you know, we were talking earlier about like even in these queer normative fantasy worlds that are being written about, there's still a lot of times these kind of strict gender norms that somehow still exist in these worlds. So Rachel: Yes. Mm-hmm. Kate: Yeah, I'm I'm really I'm interested to to read a book like this that you have to confront those gender norms constantly, right? Like that's what Briar seems to be going through of like these everyday things that a lot of people don't even think about at all. But you're realizing how strict most societies are built around that binary. And Rachel: Right. Mm-hmm. Kate: Yeah, just like having to constantly be confronted with that sounds exhausting. Rachel: Exactly. Let's like a daily struggle and that's definitely comes through in this book. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: Two two other quick plugs for this book for why you should read it. ⁓ so you know I prefer an audiobook whenever I can find it. So I have the physical book. ⁓ it was actually gifted to me as a surprise by the publisher. I did not know that this book was coming, which was very exciting. I know, like this is like the best like surprise book mail. ⁓ so I was reading it and then I found the audiobook. Kate: No, go go for it. Tell me more. Ooh, we love bookmail. Rachel: And Kate. British narrator. I love a British narrator. There's nothing that makes me happier than a British narrator. Kate: Mm. Yes. I know my my queer romantasy that I read this month also British, so ⁓ Rachel: Yes, love that. ⁓ yes, Seb Bastian might be evil. But I think we also love him. Kate: Yes. Yes. No, I I love a morally grey character. I'm into it. Rachel: Yeah, they have like a fight. They have a fight and there's a lot of tension. There might be bloody kissing. Kate: Ooh. ⁓ that sounds like a fun book that I will definitely be reading. Let me tell you about the book that I chose to read this month. So I also kind of went outside of my typical pick for this one. ⁓ for the queer aspect, but for the cozy aspect, ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ Rachel: Okay. Okay. Kate: So, you know, I usually gravitate a lot more towards darker themes. Like I said, I like a morally grey character. but this month read and I I wanted to to read a romantasy as well because I know, you know, that's kind of our bread and butter here. ⁓ I was just determined to find a queer romantasy that I feel like could be ⁓ deserves to be as popular. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: as the mainstream romantasy that we see most often. So in that quest, I decided to read ⁓ The Honey Witch by Sydney J. Shields, which is a cozy sapphic romantasy Have you read this one? Rachel: I didn't but that's been on my TBR for a while and I before I even realized it was a sapphic romance, so I should have done that for my pride list too, because I love, you know, I love a cozy romantasy. Kate: Well, I know, but you what, I'm glad. I'm glad that we are kind of pushing our boundaries this month because I think that's important. I think it's it's easy to get into just continuously reading the same kinds of books. I mean, especially when there's so many of them now. You know, like I could I could spend my entire life just reading Rachel: I agree, yes, I agree. Kate: dark romance dark romantasy with these brooding alpha male characters, right? And I would enjoy it, but would I grow? You know, would I learn anything? I don't know. ⁓ ⁓ in the spirit of ⁓ my mind, I'm ⁓ a very small tiptoe in a different direction because let's be honest, it's still romantasy ⁓ Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Kate: But but it is cozy and that's that's a a departure for me. So anyway, the Honey Witch is a cozy sapphic romantasy. It's like cozy cottage core, ⁓ as like a big part of the story. ⁓ like I said, it's a pretty big departure for me. I'm not I'm I'm not usually into the cozy-ness because I want to feel the like the tension of the danger, you know. Rachel: Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Kate: But I really enjoyed this book and I wasn't sure that I would, honestly. ⁓ I'll give kind of a brief synopsis. So the story follows a woman named Marigold who learns that her family has a legacy of magic and that she is actually something called a honey witch, who can use honey and nature to perform magic. Like the magic system is based in magical, like different kinds of magical honey. ⁓ Rachel: Wait, like I'm like attracted to that. What w like that sounds hot. I don't know why. Kate: Are you are you a honey bee or like a grizzly bear or something? Like what Rachel: Like it sounds like that would be like a sexy book. I don't know why. Kate: Because honey is like drippy and gooey and and lickable. Okay, well this is not like a high spice book, which is also a departure for me. ⁓ there is obviously it's a romance, but the spice level is I think pretty low, I would I would say. I don't know if my scale is off, you know, so if not, but Rachel: Yes, yes. Yes. And sweet, yeah. ⁓ okay. Okay. Mm. Kate: ⁓ so anyway, so she is a honey witch, and as delightful as that sounds, I know you clearly find it very delightful, ⁓ it does come with a curse that forbids love and ties her to a perpetual kind of war against the ash witch named Versa, ⁓ who is kind of like the diametric opposite of a honey witch. Rachel: Okay. Kate: So the central conflict is really Marigold having to choose between love and magic. Because if she embraces her magic, it comes with this curse that would forbid her from, you know, really embracing love. ⁓ so she meets a woman named Lottie, who it turns out is Versa's granddaughter. So tension. Rachel: Okay. Mm. Kate: ⁓ and despite the curse and their conflicting family legacies, trying to keep them apart, Marigold and Lottie find themselves drawn together and falling in love. And I don't want to give too much away, so I'll leave it there and let you read for yourself. But I want to talk about a few different kind of topics that this brought up for me. ⁓ so the biggest one, and is kind of again this like central conflict here is Rachel: Okay. Kate: The breaking of generational curses. So Marigold has a literal generational curse, like a magical curse on her. But there's like this clear parallel to a lot of queer experiences these days where we might not have a literal curse on us that keeps us from embracing love, but we do have this metaphorical curse of like society that has historically and continuously persecuted and demonized the queer community. So Rachel: Hmm. Yeah. Kate: Like we talked about before, we've seen a lot of progress just in like the millennial generation in the form of increased acceptance, increased media representation, all that good stuff. We still have a long way to go. But breaking generational curses does not come easily. And it does not like the progress doesn't always look like a straight line. but it's impossible to deny the progress that has been made in recent generations. So that's still worth celebrating. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: and even knowing there's a lot of work left to do and I did I just enjoyed that parallel here of like yes this book is talking about a literal generational curse but you know we can we can find that parallel to these generational curses that ⁓ that we're working on dismantling right now. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Right. Kate: And then what you touched on, the world building and the magic system was great in this book. I really liked how unique the magic system is. It's very botanical, like alchemy and nature-based. there's these two kinds of witches, like I said, there's honey witches who are centered around life and like wild spirits, ⁓ and their magic is ⁓ like centered on different kinds of honey. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: ⁓ as like the basis for their spells. And then there's the ash witches who are the complete opposite. They use destruction and burning to craft their spells. And I just love how the book uses honey as like a symbol for life and creation. Because honey truly is one of nature's greatest gifts, in my opinion. Like, how like yes, save the bees. But like, like just one of those beautiful things that's like it's so pure. Rachel: Save the save the bees, Kate. We need to save the bees. Mm-hmm. Kate: It's so wonderful, like this beautiful golden substance that's created by creatures that make so much of our environment thrive. And it tastes incredible. Like it's perfectly sweet and delectable. And that's just so amazing to me, just the idea that like this is it's just like naturally occurring and it's one of the best things. Like Rachel: You you don't have to explain it to me because obviously I have some kind of a honey kink that I'm just discovering right in this moment. Kate: Be careful where you put it, ⁓ But yeah, I mean that ooey gooey sweet deliciousness. I get it. Rachel: I'm gonna have to have a cup of tea after this. Kate: It's such a simple thing, but I just really I just really liked how this book recognized the simple but profound importance of this gift of nature. So I I find myself getting like overly poetic about it. But I think that's because I'm I'm currently in the process of like converting my lawn into a native plant paradise, or at least that's the goal. like supporting Rachel: Mm-hmm. No. ⁓ Kate: local pollinators. So I've been obsessed with going out into my yard and just watching all of the happy little bumblebutts buzzing around the wildflowers and just having a grand old time. So I think this book just kind of hit me at the right moment where I'm like trying to bring that cozy whimsy into my life. And so I'm appreciating it a little bit more on the page. Rachel: Yes. Kate, are you a honey witch? Kate: I might be a little bit of a honey witch. I mean, I don't have an apiary or anything. I I I know people who keep bees or have kept bees in the past. It's fucking hard. It's not easy to do that. Rachel: Yeah, me too. Yeah, my in-law my in-laws did that and I fortunately didn't have to do most of the work, but there was a day that I was helping them with like harvesting the honey and not being part of the bee part, but like once you brought the trays in and the dripping and it's just like the dripping and the stickiness, which Kate: Mm-hmm. Ha ha. Rachel: In that moment I was not sexually attracted to honey. In that moment I hated honey. It was so sticky and it's just everywhere. Kate: But with a little bit of distance you can But yeah, I mean like having like keeping bees is really difficult. You'd think that for something that's like kind of naturally occurring that it wouldn't take so much deliberate effort to maintain because it's like, well, if it does it in nature on its own, you know, how much do I have to intervene? But no, like it's it's hard and nature Rachel: Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Well you have to go steal it. So Kate: But yeah, so my goal is just to to help nature do it on its own. Right. So we wanna support the I will like grow a bunch of stuff that they love so that they can like rub their butts in it or whatever they do ⁓ and ⁓ and spread the love. But ⁓ yeah, I don't I I can't commit to ⁓ actually ⁓ having like my own hives right now. But I like to think that the bees that come and visit my yard now are are going and making honey somewhere else and that it tastes delicious. So that's what I'm I'm hoping. But again, this book solidly in the cozy cottage core genre. and I just I I appreciated that, you know, I kind of push myself to to Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: move beyond my my usual picks this ⁓ this month and ⁓ yeah the vibes just really spoke to me and I do think that it helps what's going on in my personal life right now, which is interesting because usually when I'm reading fantasy, I'm like Trying to completely disconnect from my reality, right? And like I feel like a lot of book girlies can probably t relate to the fact that like what I usually enjoy in a fantasy or a fictional story is really not what I'm looking for in real life. Like, except for brunettes. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Right. Kate: That that tracks in both. But like, you know, like when we're reading these romanticies. Rachel: But you don't you don't want a body you don't want a bodyguard that forces you to train daily and ⁓ Okay. Kate: Uh-uh. No, and you know, like especially with some of the dark romances, like the stalker things and all of that. I'm like, listen, real life, hell to the no. Absolutely not. Straight to jail, you know? But Rachel: Well yeah. Mm-hmm. Kate: in a book, I enjoy it. So it was it was ⁓ fun for me to to read something obviously still fantasy, but that I actually was like, I it kind of inspired me for my real life, which ⁓ I'm not used to. Rachel: That's nice. Alright. Well Kate, I'm glad that you're a honey witch now. Kate: Yeah. Ha ha ha. Rachel: All right, Kate. Well, thanks for sharing. That book sounds really good. ⁓ And now just making me really want to pick it up since, as I said, it's been on my TBR and I love me some cozy whimsy. And I think that we can ⁓ all agree we could all use a little bit of magic in our life. So whether you enjoy one of the books we talked about here, or any of the many, many other amazing queer options out there. Kate: Mm. Rachel: We strongly encourage you to take the opportunity this month or any month to read a queer love story. Read queer all year. There's certainly no time limit to it. These these stories help us to see the world from another perspective. Kate: Mm. Or help us on our journeys of self discovery. Rachel: And they're a vital resource to break those generational curses we talked about, Especially in conservative homes or areas with less open representation, access to these kinds of books might be the only time someone can feel seen or understood and can literally be life-saving. So let us know what you think. Have you read one of the books we discussed? And do you have any other queer romances that you recommend we check out? Drop us a comment with your thoughts. And while you're at it, give us a follow at Deep Trope Podcast. And subscribe so you never miss an episode. Thanks for joining us. Kate: Right.