Latest / Man in America Podcast / How the Food Pyramid is KILLING YOU w/ Dr. Shawn Baker, Carnivore Diet Guru

Transcript

How the Food Pyramid is KILLING YOU w/ Dr. Shawn Baker, Carnivore Diet Guru · Man in America Podcast

• 0:12
  Seth Holehouse: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Man in America. I'm your host, Seth Holehouse. What we have happening right now across the country and really around the whole world is that I think that people are realizing that the crap that they've been feeding us, especially here in America, is actually making us really sick. We're dying earlier. We've got obesity rates through the roof.
• 0:32
  We've got kids that can't sit still in school. We've got autism skyrocketing. And, thankfully, I think, you know, JFK or sorry, not JFK. RFK. I wish JFK was still here giving us these lessons, but RFK junior has made this central to what he's focusing on is just how sick America is, and there's a lot of different solutions to it.
• 0:50
  But one thing that I've been really thinking about a lot lately and watching and seeing this big trend of is the carnivore diet. I think I first heard about it from Jordan Peterson where he used it to heal a lot of issues, and I think his daughter was also healing a lot of issues with it. I thought, that's interesting. I've always loved steak. I mean, what would happen if I was just eating steak and, you know, steak and eggs and bacon?
• 1:09
  I mean, it seems like every man's dream. I mean, even wore my flannel shirt today for this interview because I wanted to to embrace the manliness of just eating meat and and eggs every day. So my guest today is doctor Sean Baker, who is a a doctor that, you know, was realizing, you know, through treating patients that actually, if he helped them fix their diets, he could help them avoid surgery and everything. And the place where he was working wasn't very happy because he was getting rid of customers. Right?
• 1:35
  And say, hey. They don't need our surgery anymore because I've healed them through diet. And so he's gone down this journey through his own, you know, personal process, and he's been doing carnivore for, I think, close to a decade now, if not longer. He's written a book on it. He was on Joe Rogan.
• 1:48
  You know, he blew up about it. And so today's discussion is just what is the carnivore diet? Why is it so popular in in these days? Why is it being attacked, right, by a lot of the mainstream, you know, folks and the medical journals and stuff that say, it's not good. There's a lot of resistance to it, which I I tend to trust the things that are attacked by the mainstream.
• 2:06
  That's one of my little ways of seeing, okay. Where's the truth at? And so we're gonna be diving into what is the carnivore diet? What do you eat? What don't you eat?
• 2:14
  What are the risks? How does it affect testosterone? How does it affect muscle growth? You know, why don't you eat that broccoli that comes with your beef? Maybe you can.
• 2:22
  So we're gonna be diving into a lot of this and more, but I'm actually very interested to learn this because I'm actually considering probably within the next couple of days doing this, doing a trial, say, one, two, three month trial of carnivore and just seeing how it reacts with me because I would love to be walking into a room and and just embodying like a Viking that just got done eating half a cow. Right? In in the right way, of course. So anyway, folks, I hope you're gonna enjoy this interview. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
• 2:47
  Sean Baker's, he's he's just a great guy, and he's an example. I mean, he's in his late fifties, and the guy looks like he's a he's a college linebacker. So, you know, he certainly is, walking the walk that he's talking about. So folks, please enjoy the interview with doctor Sean Baker. Doctor Sean Baker, man, it is a pleasure to have you on the show.
• 3:05
  Thank you so much for joining us today.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Well, likewise, my pleasure. So I'm interested to chat to you and and, I guess, by extension, your audience. So thanks for having me.
• 3:14
  Seth Holehouse: Absolutely. So it's been incredible because I feel like that the entire nation, and and really, the the world is learning a lot more about why America is so sick and why we're so obese. And, you know, I grew up I was born in the eighties. Grew up I was I was a pretty heavy kid. You know, by the time I was 15, I weighed two fifty.
• 3:35
  You know, I'm six foot one. But a lot of it was just fat. Right? Because I grew up on the standard American diet. You know, we had Cheerios and Froot Loops and stuff like that.
• 3:45
  But, you know, looking at the food pyramid, it was also you know, we could say we were following it. It was grains and then fruits and vegetables and, you know, limited, you know, oils. And I still remember seeing the Crisco can sitting in the, you know, in the pantry growing up. And so I I think that I'm the perfect example of someone who was damaged by that. And I've struggled as an adult to maintain my weight because I as my metabolism is all screwed up from the seed oils and and the Crisco, you know, Procter and Gamble Crisco.
• 4:10
  Thanks, you know, for those guys for that. And I I've been interested in looking into, you know, carnivore diets, and I did, you know, back at that time, I'd you know, as a high school, I did Atkins diet, some variation. It lost a lot of weight and got into much better shape. But you're someone I consistently see all over the place, and your videos are great because it's you just it's a video. It's a TikTok kind of video, you're sitting there with a big, you know, two pound steak and a giant sword for a knife, and you're just, you know, eating it and commenting.
• 4:36
  And so give us a little bit of your your background and and a little bit of of your expertise. Because for me, when I think of carnivore, I think of Sean Baker. But I wanna see, you know, a little more about yourself, though.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, I am a physician. I was, you know, traditionally trained as an orthopedic surgeon. I spent, you know, several decades practicing as a surgeon, and I eventually sort of came to the conclusion that my, I don't know, my ability to heal people was being limited by what I was doing. Mean, I came to a real realization when I remember I just happened to start putting people on diets to help them lose weight for surgery, and I started noticing that their joint pain was going away to the point where we didn't need to do the surgery anymore.
• 5:18
  And I thought that was really cool and exciting, but the hospital administration did not, They actively discouraged me from doing that in more ways than one. And so I kind of thought that was really odd that we would, you know, so I mean, it very became quickly clear to me that it was more about profits than people for some reason. And that's kind of what, and this is something like, this occurred something like ten, twelve years ago. I made that discovery, and then I kind of started really going down the rabbit hole of nutrition and how it impacts, you know, health and specifically disease. And so I, you know, kind of migrated through all different various dietary strategies and ended up on this crazy all meat thing, which at the time was being called a zero carb diet.
• 6:06
  And I thought it was absolutely nuts when I first heard about it. I mean, like everybody kind of does. It just doesn't sound Because, know, I mean, our perception, our sort of experience is the grocery store with its 10,000 different products, and we expect all this variety in a diet. And the reality is, I mean, if you go through most of human existence, I mean, no one had the level of variety we have now. I mean, it was like, you know, if you even lived before, even just before, you know, a few hundred years ago before refrigeration became widely available, before massive transportation was widely available, most people were kind of stuck eating what what grew around them or what they could kill, you know, out in the backyard.
• 6:43
  And so like the concept of a meat based diet, depending on where you are in the world, I mean, you're in, you know, the sort of the circumpolar regions, you know, rural Mongolia, the Nilotic African regions, you know, some of the Southern Brazil, that was sort of normal. It wasn't considered weird at all, but it is now. So, but I mean, I said, ended up this rabbit hole. Back in 2016, I was just starting out on social media. I had a small Twitter following at the time, a couple thousand people.
• 7:17
  And I said, you know, look, I'm gonna try this crazy all meat diet. I know I'm gonna die. I'm gonna do it for a month. I'm sure I'm gonna die. What am I gonna die of?
• 7:24
  I'm gonna die by the scurvy or my heart's gonna clog up or my colon's gonna explode from lack of fiber or something like that, right? And I did it for thirty days and of course I didn't die. None of those bad things happened to me. And in fact, I felt fantastic and the best I'd felt, and at that time it was just before I turned 50. And I remember I was like, man, this is the best I've felt in gosh, ten, fifteen years.
• 7:45
  I had, you know, these weird aches and pains that I just attributed to normal aging, which, you know, you kinda expect that as you get older, it's just like, you start slowing down. You got a sore back, sore knees. And I was experiencing all that stuff despite the fact that I was, know, regularly exercising and I was an athlete, but that just went away and I was blown away by that. And so I did it for thirty days, said, This is a cool experiment. And I said, Okay, I'm gonna go back to my more normal, you know, my normal omnivorous diet, my mixed, you know, the diet that everybody would be happy with, and I immediately felt worse.
• 8:18
  And I was like, You know what? All things being considered, I like to feel better. And so I just kind of persisted on this kinda all meat type of diet. And then, you know, shortly after that, I was able to convince a hundred people to do it. Know, we did a little We collected data on this.
• 8:34
  We'd set up a website, and we called this thing called an N equals many experiment, because every single one's an N equals one. It's just your own personal anecdote. So we had a hundred people do it and they did it for ninety days. The average person lost about 30 pounds and their resting heart rate went down by 10 beats and they lost about eight centimeters on their waist. We tracked everything we could track for free because we didn't have any money.
• 8:55
  It was just like, all the subjective markers got better. Yeah, they slept better. They felt, their digestion got better. Their joints hurt less. Their skin was better.
• 9:04
  Their sexual function was better. Their mental health was better. So this, you know, I was kind of talking about this, and then, this guy named Joe Rogan sort of heard about it and then asked me to come on the show to chat about it. Then of course, then that of course obviously raises the awareness in public. Then I got all of a sudden, then I became public enemy number one from all the vegans on the planet because I'm out here as this guy telling people, hey, eating meat makes people healthy, it seems to anyway.
• 9:28
  So that was, you know, back in 2016, '20 '17, and I've been, you know, kinda persisting with this for the last now eight years. And
• 9:38
  Seth Holehouse: Folks, I wanna talk about something really important, your hearing health. Look. As you get older, it's easy to overlook, but getting your hearing checked is crucial. Did you know that untreated hearing loss can lead to social isolation, depression, and even cognitive decline. So that's why it's so important to take action early, and that's where hear.com comes in.
• 9:58
  If you occasionally notice you're asking people to repeat themselves or don't hear your phone ring, you may wanna get a free hearing consultation from hear.com. So hear.com has over 400,000 happy customers and offers an industry leading hearing aid developed by German engineers. So it's nearly invisible, and it can transform your life. It even connects to your phone. So, folks, take advantage of the forty five day no risk trial by visiting Com / Seth.
• 10:27
  Again, that's here.com/Seth,seth.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: You know, here I am still alive, still haven't died, still haven't had a heart attack, still don't have scurvy. In fact, I'm thriving as an athlete, and now we've had literally I mean, there are now hundreds of thousands of people that have done this diet, including some pretty prominent people. You know, I just had the World's Strongest Man, Eddie Hall, consult me to set up the diet for him. Or, you know, it's just so it's obviously taking place, and we're starting to get research. You know, we just, I think two days ago, or Monday, so on Labor Day, we just published a study on inflammatory bowel disease in carnivore diet, showing complete resolution, at least in some of the population.
• 11:09
  We don't know if it's going to affect ten percent of the population, ninety percent of the population. We need to do more studies on this, but certainly, I think I don't think anybody at this point can can deny that it does seem to be beneficial for a number of people. So that's kinda where we're at right now.
• 11:24
  Seth Holehouse: And so let let's start with just the basics because I'm I'm learning this know, through you. And I think a lot of the audience is also learning this, and may you know, maybe they're seasoned, you know, kind of with with this particular way of eating. But what does the diet look like? What are the what are the things that you eat? What are you well, those that you don't eat?
• 11:41
  Because I've been looking into they call carnivore diets and understand or also animal based diet, whereas animal based diet also includes, you know, raw honey and some fruits and such versus carnivore, which is a little more strict. So starting with carnivore, what are the the fundamentals of what you do and don't eat on a carnivore diet?
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, in general, if it had a parent or a face, you can eat it, and if it's a plant, you don't. Mean, that's the basics of it. You just eat meat. I mean, meat, eggs, dairy products, things like that, I mean, for the most part.
• 12:07
  I mean, you try to eat, you know, whole unprocessed foods for the most part. I mean, vast majority of the people that will do a carnivore diet over the long term will kind of be 95% strict. I mean, not everybody's. I mean, even myself, I mean, will eat, I mean, well, I'll use my diet example of what I've eaten for the last eight years. I mean, 90% of my diet is beef.
• 12:29
  I mean, maybe 95%. I mean, every day I eat steak or ground beef or something like that, and I'll add eggs to that occasionally. Sometimes I'll have some seafood, you know, shrimp or scallops or, you know, piece of fish or something like that. Once in a while, have, I eat quite a few eggs too. Think I mentioned that.
• 12:48
  Every once in a while, I'll have something that's off the plan. I mean, just on a whim. I'll have a piece of cake or something like that, but it's not like part of my diet. It's like rare. It's like once or twice a year or something like that.
• 12:58
  I think that, you know, I mean, it's simple. You gotta eat enough fat. I mean, that's important because if you're not eating carbohydrates, you need to consume energy. You know, we ever, I mean, when we look at what are the requirements for human nutrition, right? Essential things are amino acids.
• 13:16
  They're essential fats. You need energy, and you need some vitamins and minerals. That's what we need essentially to thrive and live as a human being. Now you can get that in the absence of carbohydrates. You can get that in the absence of plants.
• 13:28
  I know people would argue, What about vitamin C and various things like that? And we can delve into that if we want to, but suffice it to say, I mean, you can literally live indefinitely on just red meat, and I've done it. I've lived two years straight with nothing but red meat and was totally fine. Know, and like I said, just because of my own personal preference and convenience, like when I'm traveling, sometimes it's hard to get a steak at 07:00 in the morning. Mean, it's not always available, so I'll eat eggs.
• 13:53
  I'll have eggs and bacon or something like that, which is, you know, more traditionally associated with breakfast. But that's kind of what it looks like, you know, and it's something that, it's not for everybody certainly. Not everybody needs to do that. I've never been one to say that. I don't think humans are, I mean, are omnivorous animals.
• 14:10
  We are. I mean, we are opportunistic omnivores. I would argue we're probably facultative carnivores, which is a little bit different way to say that we thrive on meat. And you know, it's one of those things. If for some reason you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, you could eat rib eye steaks and you would live very well, I think.
• 14:30
  I think you would do quite well with that because it has enough fat in there. There's obviously the protein and the requirements that you need. But I think that the average person, like who do I recommend it for? Anybody that's not doing well metabolically, autoimmune wise, they've got some sort of issue, maybe they're not happy with their mental health. I mean, you know, when you start looking at the number of people in The United States, for instance, that have either diabetes, prediabetes, autoimmune diseases, mental health issues, we're starting to talk like damn near half the country has something falls into that category.
• 15:03
  So a lot of people could benefit from this significantly. And you know, in fact, I have a company, Rivera, which is a digital health company. We have physicians licensed in all 50 states, and we take people in and we support them. We change their nutrition. Some people we put on a carnivore diet.
• 15:17
  Some people we put on some version of elimination of whatever garbage might be making them sick. You know, usually it's a lower carb approach, and we've had tremendous success with that. But that's just something, as we, I know you kind of alluded to RFK and the people talking about finally fixing our damn, the health in our country now. Yeah. Thank you for that.
• 15:38
  I like to see the politicians talking about this and bringing this to the forefront and kudos to Bobby Kennedy for doing that. And I had a discussion with his running mate, Nicole Shanahan, a few weeks ago talking about this stuff as well. And I I don't know how optimistic I am that they're gonna actually be able to affect change, assuming they get into office, because that's still not a given, because of the resistance that you'll see. I mean, I don't know that we can rely on the government to make sweeping changes that'll be meaningful. I think they might do some lip service and might make some small changes, but I think our food system is so incredibly broken that I think you just gotta do it yourself.
• 16:22
  I mean, gotta just sort of say, Hey, look, I'm gonna have to take it upon myself. That's my assumption. And if I'm pleasantly surprised and all of a sudden you know, they get rid of all the crap out of the diet, I'd be I'd be happy with that, but I'm not gonna count on that.
• 16:37
  Seth Holehouse: And so, if someone eats carnivore. Right? And and, you know, say, you're waking up and you're doing eggs and bacon and but so dairy is okay. Right? So is is it better to have raw?
• 16:48
  Like, you know, we we I consume a fair bit of raw milk as part of my my diet. I love cheese. I'm just a big cheese guy. But so does dairy in the form of cheese or milk fit in to
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: the category? I mean, it can. It depends on the individual. Some people I mean, to be to be honest, some people dairy is problematic for them, and it depends on the issue. I mean, you know, like as a cheese, I mean, dairy products are designed to put on weight.
• 17:10
  I mean, that's why dairy exists. It's designed to grow things, and it's a great source of, it's a wonderful source of protein. I mean, it's a wonderful source of fat. One of the problems a lot of people tend to overeat that, particularly like, I just tell people, your goal is to lose weight, drinking calories doesn't make sense because it's so easy to over consume calories in liquid form. Dairy, again, you know, dairy is designed so that we consume a lot of it because it's designed to put on weight.
• 17:36
  It's designed for a small animal to get to a big animal. That's what the purpose of dairy is. But having said that, I consume dairy from time to time. Just got back from, I mean, just got back from, I was in France, Spain, and Portugal for the last two weeks, and they had some wonderful dairy. I mean, the cheese is awesome in France.
• 17:50
  I mean, some of the yogurts and stuff like that were tremendously good. That's not something I normally consume a lot in my diet day to day, but I do go through phases. You know, like I said, I do what's available. For all the people that are talking about how great the meat is in Europe, The US beef is wonderful, and we got the best beef in the world as far as I'm concerned, and I was so excited to get back home and tear into a big old USDA prime rib eye steak, man. It was like it was really good.
• 18:18
  Seth Holehouse: And so when someone's eating like that, what changes in the body? Right? I'm very familiar with ketosis. You know, I used to you know, when I was doing keto diets, I even had little, you know, strips I'm peeing on, and I'd consume ketones to help my body kick into that. But, you know, if someone, say, does a month of of only let's say someone only ate steak for a month.
• 18:40
  Like, steak would say butter and herbs on it. Okay?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Right. Okay.
• 18:43
  Seth Holehouse: What what happens physiologically over the course of that month?
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Sure. That's a good great question. Well, first of all, you're gonna lose some weight.
• 18:49
  I mean, you're gonna lose some water. I mean, because you you are assuming your diet was a mixed diet and you're consuming carbohydrates before. What'll happen is your insulin levels will likely come down a little bit. And as a consequence of that, insulin has an impact on the kidney, and it tells the kidney to hang on to more salt and water. That's what insulin does in the kidney, one of the rules.
• 19:09
  So when you don't have that input anymore, you basically just, you just pee off all your sodium basically, not all of it, but you know, some of it. So you'll lose some water weight. And so as a consequence, some people need to sure they stay hydrated because it can be, if it's too much, you end up with headaches. This is so called keto flu, where you become relatively dehydrated and you get headaches and hypotension, and maybe you don't have energy. So you gotta stay on top of your hydration.
• 19:37
  Your bowel movements are gonna, your frequency of your bowel movements are gonna change because now you go from a situation where you have all this indigestible fiber, which our body literally can almost do nothing with. I mean, literally all the fiber, like when you spend all this money on organic fruits and vegetables, and we've all done that, and you know, half the time we end up throwing it out because it gets rotten in our fridge, but even when we eat it, most of it's not absorbed by our body. Most of it just ends up in the toilet. So it's really an inefficient way, know, and now with food prices being so expensive, you're thinking about those fruits and vegetables are just ending up in the toilet anyway, and much of the nutrition is. And so it's more efficient to eat meat because our body will literally absorb almost all with very little waste.
• 20:19
  I mean, so you end up going to the bathroom less frequently. So if you normally have two bowel movements a day, which is pretty typical for most people, you might go to having a bowel movement every two to three days instead because you're just not wasting food anymore. It's all being absorbed and being utilized like it should be. So it's a much more efficient way of eating. You may find that your satiety is much better.
• 20:44
  We know there's these new drugs out there, these GLP-1s, Ozempic and Govies and whatnot, they act by stimulating this incretin hormone called GLP-one, which is secreted normally in the bottom at the end of our small intestine in a place called the ileum, and meat actually stimulates it quite well as well. It's known as a natural stimulant for this hormone. Now the drug, it sticks around for, you know, the half life is huge. It's like days and days, whereas normally it's only supposed to hang around for about five minutes when we produce it naturally. And so what happens is when our intestine starts sensing nutrients way down at the distal end at the end of it saying, wait, slow things down because getting too much nutrition here.
• 21:24
  We haven't absorbed it yet. So it's called the ileal break. And so what happens with the drug is it just slams everything shut. And so you end up not processing food very well and you feel full and some people get nauseous and have side effects. You know, some people lose, obviously a lot of people lose weight with that.
• 21:38
  But So you end up with, likely most people just feel full longer and they just don't wanna eat. I mean, it's like instead of eating three, four, five, six times a day, most people just graze all day. You get up and have breakfast, and then by 10:00 you're hungry and you have your muffin, and then by noon you want your lunch, and then you start crashing in the afternoon, you get a little sugar to bring it in then have a little nighttime snack. That goes away. Most people on this diet will eat about twice a day.
• 22:06
  That's pretty typical. They might eat a big breakfast. Let's say you have a, I don't know, 12 ounce steak and a couple of eggs for breakfast. You may not even want lunch. You're just like, I don't good.
• 22:18
  I don't need it. And then you go, you make it to dinner and you have dinner and then you're good to go. And so that's what a lot of people see. So less frequent meals, more satiety, decreased bowel frequency. You know, again, you have to deal with hydration.
• 22:32
  And then, you know, that's pretty consistent across the board. Now there's some people that have different things occurring to them depending on what else is going on. Diabetics will see, or people with blood glucose issues will often see a very quick normalization of their blood glucose. It's been very effective for diabetes. I mean, we've got a nice study out of Harvard that was published in twenty twenty one, two sixty two diabetics.
• 22:56
  '1 hundred percent of them were able to come off all injectable medications outside of insulin. Ninety two percent of them were able come off all their insulin. You know, it's just really effective for those types of issues. And so, you know, it's got a great clinical utility, at least, you know, what we're seeing so far. I think that, you know, some people, you know, one of the things that, you know, one of the big errors a lot of people make is they just don't eat enough because like I said, it's so satiating.
• 23:25
  Like, I'm just full. And it's one of those things where you're, like when you're hungry, when you're eating carbohydrates, when you're hungry, you know you're hungry. It's like, man, it's like, you know, a sledgehammer and you gotta eat, you know? It's more subtle in this situation. It's like, you know, you're kinda like, well, I don't know if I'm not that hungry.
• 23:41
  And so sometimes you have to sort of force yourself to eat in some occasions just to make sure you're not, you know, not, under nourishing yourself because that can happen, you know, because it's so satiating that people just often under eat and then they start having issues with poor energy and mood and stuff like that. So you gotta make sure you stay on top of your caloric consumption. Because the other thing is, you know, if our body is very efficient and very smart about its resources, and if you're chronically consuming lots of fiber and lots of carbohydrates, you have the metabolic machinery set up for that. You have the cell types that are expressed. You have enzyme pathways, which are expressing, and the genes are obviously always producing more proteins the way we produce proteins off our, with our mRNA and our ribosomes.
• 24:28
  And so that changes a little bit. And you know, even the cells that populate our gut, our gut turns over every day or two. We have a completely new gut lining about every two to three days. And so you gotta solely change the prevalence of certain cell types that are more, you know, if you're not using fiber and carbohydrates and you have different cell types populate the gut to some degree, and so that has to take time. So it takes, you know, it probably takes the average person anywhere between three and eight weeks to transition on this diet.
• 24:56
  I tell most people, if you're gonna do it and you wanna see if it impacts whatever, your mental health or your arthritis or whatever you're doing it for, give it about three months. And the reason I say that is because a few years ago, had 12,000 people that I'd surveyed that were doing the diet, and I asked them all the questions. We sent out like 25 different questions and we asked them, one of the questions was how long did it take before you noticed that you saw significant improvement? And there was some people within days and immediately they felt better. But I mean, for the average across the board, by three months, the vast majority of people had seen some level of significant improvement on some condition, depending on what they were doing it for.
• 25:36
  So, I mean, if you're gonna do it and you really wanna see if it's really effective for x, y, or z condition, give it a full three months, and and, you know, and and that's how I would approach it.
• 25:46
  Seth Holehouse: And is is it something you can like, can you basically quit carbohydrates and sugars cold turkey? Like, my diet as an example. You know, overall, we eat very healthy. Right? You know, almost everything's organic, you know, mostly locally sourced from the farm market or low you know, get our, you know, beef and whatnot from local butchers that we know.
• 26:05
  So but, you know, I have I have sugar periodically or honey or maple syrup or or just, you know, like, with this morning, we made, you know, apple spelt muffins, right, with some butter on them, that kind of stuff. So if someone like me now I I'm not so again, it's going out in pounding down, you know, a quarter pounder with cheese and french fries as my normal diet. Right? So overall Right. I'm quite healthy, but if I just went cold turkey and say tomorrow, you know, I say, okay, for the next three months, I'm only gonna eat meat, eggs, and a little bit of dairy.
• 26:39
  Yep. Would would that shock my system too much? Would would there be a difficult period? Is it better to ease into it? How would you
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it it really depends on the person. So, I mean, somebody who's generally healthy and already kind of lower carb, it's not that hard to transition kind of cold turkey. If someone is really carb dependent and maybe they're on medications, then yeah, I mean, it can be problem. That's one of the reasons we set up our healthcare company, because we have people that transition and they do have problems.
• 27:06
  Diabetics become hypoglycemic, hypertensive people become hypotensive when they haven't taped their medicines off. So there are some people for which a rapid transition is no problem. There's other people's where more caution is needed to be exercised. I think that one of the things that you have to realize is there is a period of time where it takes the body to sort of ramp up the machinery to sort of change the different fuel selection that you're gonna have. Now, glucose never goes to zero.
• 27:36
  I mean, blood glucose is always what it's, there is always some. It's never zero, even though I don't eat carbohydrates, because our body can make it. But I mean, there is a period of time where, like I said, for whatever reason, whether you wanna do it or not is up to you and what your reasons are. But if you're like, Hey, I wanna really try to do it for three months, you're gonna probably deal with cravings at some point. I mean, that just occurs maybe on day two, it may be on day 12.
• 28:05
  It just depends, and it's like, why is that occurring? It's often tied to hormonal surges, and there's one hormone in particular called ghrelin, which often peaks around 8PM for a lot of people, and a lot of people experience this where it's later at night, maybe you've had dinner at six and it's like eight, nine o'clock getting ready for bed, but you just want something like sweet to eat before you go to bed. And you look around the cabinets and maybe you find a chocolate bar and you eat that or something. Or sometimes you don't find it, and you're like, oh hell, I'm just gonna go to bed. I'm kinda hungry.
• 28:36
  And you wake up the next morning, you're not hungry. It's like, well, why was I hungry eight hours ago, now I'm not hungry? Well, it's because of hormonal fluctuations have occurred. So that ghrelin has now kind of come down, and you're not hungry. And so I tell people that, look, if you know that these cravings are tied to hormonal surges, then they're time limited.
• 28:55
  And usually it's about a thirty to forty five minute period of time. So you might have this craving. It's only gonna last thirty, forty five minutes. So if you can just deal with it, go for a walk, do something, distract yourself, or eat something that's more in line with what you have on the diet. There's ways you can deal with those things.
• 29:10
  Drink a bunch of fluids, stretch out your gut, to deal with those cravings. I tell people, have a plan. Like when I'm talking to people and I say, What's your plan for craving? What do you mean plan? I mean, Oh yeah, plan.
• 29:21
  You know, if you fail to plan, it's planning to fail basically. So I have a plan in place. I'm gonna go for a walk for forty five minutes or something. But yeah, I mean, it's, you know, like I said, the things that make it difficult is if you go from a higher carb diet and you're like, okay, I wanna lose 30 pounds and I'm gonna do it in the next two months, and then you go into a carnivore diet and then you intentionally suppress how much you eat, you're gonna struggle. So I tell people in the beginning, you know, and again, really, again, the generalizable applicability for all people is debatable, but I mean, a lot of people, most people that I encounter that have struggled with weight or health conditions, often they have also, concomitantly, they have food addiction issues.
• 30:05
  I mean, you look at the food system we have, and I've mentioned this before, I had a lady who worked for one of these food companies, and her job was as a chemist, a food chemist. She said her job was basically make the food as addictive as possible. And they're very good at it. They know. I mean, they literally make this food as addictive.
• 30:22
  And so it's estimated that we have something like fourteen percent of the population as a food addict, which kind of parallels what the alcoholism rates are in The US. And so when you're dealing with that, I tell people, Hey man, your job number one is just to change a relationship with food. And what I find is the most effective thing is just eat enough high nutrient value food, and I think meat is the most nutrient beneficial food you can consume. You keep cramming enough of that in your throat until you're like, I don't want anything else. Because people ask me, well, how much should I eat?
• 30:53
  Well, eat enough so you don't want any cupcakes or whatever. I mean, that's the answer, you know, particularly in the beginning. It's like change your relationship so that you it's not that you're never gonna have another cupcake for the rest of your life, but you need to get to the point where you don't need to have it. I mean, I can be hungry and there can be a plate of I used to love dessert. I mean, I still like desserts, but I don't eat them.
• 31:13
  But I mean, there could be the most delicious, delectable red velvet cake or something like that sitting in front of me, and I could be hungry. And I'm like, you know what? I don't eat that. I'm good. You know?
• 31:22
  Whereas ten years ago, I'd be like, you know, give me six pieces. You know, it's like I've changed that, which is, you know, it's liberating. It's very freeing. Whereas a lot of people say,
• 31:35
  Seth Holehouse: oh, it's such
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: a restrictive diet, but it's not. I mean, it's literally unburden you. It's unshackling you from food addiction, which I think is the opposite of restrictive. Then once you've kind of got to that point where you're like, hey, I can take it or leave it, then you're acting under your own sort of your own intelligence, whereas before it was almost, well, a lot of people just mindlessly eat. You know, it's like they just eat, they don't even know why they're eating.
• 32:01
  They're just like, the man on the TV told me to eat. They're almost like hypnotized or something. So yeah, the short answer is many people can do it cold turkey. Some people probably best to transition, I'd say spend four, six weeks slower lowering the carbohydrates, lowering down the fiber, and then certainly working with a physician if you're gonna do that, if you're on some of these different medications, because you're not gonna need them anymore. And that's a problem.
• 32:26
  If you're taking medication you don't need, you have these side effects. High blood pressure is a perfect example. If you're taking all these high blood pressure meds and all of a sudden you don't you know, the inflammation goes down in your body, you don't need them anymore, and all of a sudden you're hypotensive, you get up, you get dizzy, fall down, you whack your head on the ground, and then that's not a good thing. So we gotta be cautious about that.
• 32:44
  Seth Holehouse: What about bone broths? Because we do a lot of bone broths, and I recently got a we've got a, like, a big Napoleon grill, and I got a rotisserie for it. And so I I can shove, like, two or three chickens on there, and just do a slow rotisserie chicken, which is amazing. It turns into, like, five meals. But we also take all the bones, and and we do a twenty four hour bone broth for chicken.
• 33:05
  Or if we're doing beef, it might be a two or three day bone broth, which, you know, I think is obviously, it's it's you're getting all the nutrients from the marrow and all that kind of stuff. But is is bone broth, I would assume it would be absolutely part of the diet, but what are your thoughts on bone broths?
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, can be. I mean, for sure. I mean, it's it's it's I mean, there's some great benefits for bone broth. I mean, there's calcium in there.
• 33:23
  There's, you know, some of the collagenous properties. You know, it's it's obviously, a lot of times the electrolytes, a lot people sip on bone broth as a way to rehydrate themselves. As I mentioned, hydration can be an issue. Yeah, so bone broth can be fine. Now some of the commercially prepared bone broths for some people are problematic depending on what they add to it, because a lot of times they add, just like anything that's shelf stable, anything that's gonna sit on the shelf for a year, you probably don't have any business eating that stuff in my view.
• 33:47
  So, I mean, you gotta be cautious about that. But, yeah, you take a, you know, a chicken carcass, you know, a leftover. You pick all the meat off the chicken, and and you wanna make bone broth. That's great. That's a great use of that that resource for sure.
• 34:00
  Seth Holehouse: And how about muscle? Because this is something that I've heard a lot of varying opinions on and, you know, different people you know, trainers I've worked with, you know, they'll say, look. You gotta make sure you get enough carbs if you're building muscle. But when I look at you, I know you're in your fifties, and you you're you're built like a linebacker, like a college linebacker, yet you're not doing steroids or any of those kinds of things. So, I would you how how would you say that, you know, a carnivore diet impacts your your goals in the gym if you're wanting to say build muscle mass and build strength.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, like I said, here are the the the disadvantages, because I think that's important to understand. Remember I said it's very satiating in society.
• 34:39
  Seth Holehouse: Folks, there is a lot to worry about these days, and a lot of it keeps us up at night. And sometimes me, I've got a really hard time falling asleep. But ever since I started adding magnesium breakthrough to my nightly routine, I've been able to quiet my mind and get the best sleep ever. So unlike other magnesium supplements that might be giving you one to two forms of magnesium, magnesium breakthrough contains all seven forms of magnesium designed to help calm your mind and help you fall asleep and stay asleep and wake up refreshed. So if you're struggling to calm down and get a good night's rest, I highly recommend magnesium breakthrough from Bioptimizers.
• 35:14
  So don't miss out on the most relaxing sleep ever with magnesium breakthrough. So for an exclusive offer, go to bioptimizers.com/wholehouse, and use promo code whole house, that's h o l e h o u s during the checkout to save 10%. And if you subscribe, not only will you get amazing discounts and free gifts, but you're gonna make sure that your monthly supply is guaranteed.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: So when it comes to building muscle, and this is clear. I mean, the research is clear on this. You need, the first thing is stimulus. You've got a resistance train. There is no building significant muscle without busting your butt in the gym.
• 35:50
  It trumps diet all the way, you know, 10 times over. Then you need adequate protein, which you're certainly gonna get on a carnivore diet. And then it's really just energy beyond that. And it's just like, what is your preferred energy source? Now, fat certainly fills the bill for that.
• 36:06
  So if you, you know, carbohydrates are, they taste good. They're easy to acquire. They're cheap. They are, something that a lot of people are accustomed to. So it's kind of what you're chronically adapted to, but you absolutely can build muscle on a diet that is without carbohydrates in there.
• 36:27
  In fact, I had the world's strongest man, Eddie Hall, just consult me a couple, last two weeks ago, asked him, and he's starting a carnivore diet, and he's seen no difference up to this point. You know, he's training on it. He said, I'm training fine. I've got no problem. And he's one of the strongest guys in the world doing this.
• 36:41
  And so it's just a matter of, well, I was gonna say there was a paper that came out recently by the ISSA and the International Society for Sports Nutrition, and they basically said that low carb diets are inferior to higher carb diets when it comes to muscle building, but, and here's the caveat, the primary reason for that is lack of calories and lower protein amounts. So because people just naturally eat less, you've gotta force yourself to eat more. So you might have to eat when you're not hungry. You might have to force feed yourself a little bit, and that's the trick. That's really the differentiating factor for most of that.
• 37:17
  And then it's chronic adaptation, because it takes you, as an athlete, probably three months, six months to really chronically adapt to this sort of new fuel source. And once you get there, no problem. I put on 10 pounds of muscle as the guy in his late 50s. Without drugs, I don't take TRT, as you mentioned, I don't take steroids, TRT, and that's not easy to do. Mean, like I said, and it's not like I'm a new lifter.
• 37:44
  I've been lifting weights for forty five years now, and I've still been able to put on 10 pounds in my mid to late fifties on a carnivore diet. So it's definitely doable, but it's I bust my ass. I mean, I I I get in there and train hard, and I and you gotta be consistent with it.
• 37:57
  Seth Holehouse: And what about, testosterone levels? Because I know a lot of men, even if they're not trying to be fit, there's they struggle with that. Right? I I think that there's if you look at a lot of the food that we've been fed and and, you know, to me, I look at it as part of some overall larger agenda from people that don't like the human race, really, that, you know, hey, we're gonna turn the men into women, and then we're gonna, you know, pump full of estrogen and soy, and, you know, drop their testosterone, drop their sperm counts. And I feel like that that's part of the like, you go look at the food parrot.
• 38:22
  I'll I'll pull the food parrot up really quickly because it's just it's kinda crazy to look at it, right, compared to what we all know. It's like, oh, wow. They say, you know, all your servings of bread, then some fruit, then a little a little bit of meat and dairy, and then, you know, a little bit of, you know, your obviously, your your your seed oil shouldn't be even beyond here. But, I mean, I use butter like water. Like, you know, my my butter to bread ratio is typically one to one if I'm eating a butter piece of bread.
• 38:48
  So I'm a big, big butter fan. But what would you say though in terms of the overall diet versus sorry. I lost my train of thought there. The question I was asking
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: was The testosterone function.
• 39:03
  Seth Holehouse: Testosterone. Yeah. I got so excited about the pyramid. I forgot about the testosterone. So how does it affect testosterone and just overall mannose?
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I think in general. I mean, when you talk about guys that are hypogonadal or have testosterone deficiency, whatever that's defined, you know, whether it's on, you know, free testosterone or something else, I mean, it's really a clinical, it's it's really a clinical, diagnosis quite honestly, because the absolute testosterone number is not as important as people think it is. I mean, it does have a role, but I mean, there are some people that are more testosterone sensitive and they have this greater androgen receptor density and diet can impact that. In fact, my testosterone's not super high, but I'm one of the strongest guys in me at my age. Again, I don't take these drugs because I probably have very sensitive receptors.
• 39:48
  Now, what I see generally as people improve their metabolic health, their clinical expression of testosterone function improves. Guys have more morning erections. They have better libido. Their body composition improves, their mental health. So the so called benefits of testosterone tend to be displayed better in people on a carnivore diet provided that they get better, they lose weight, and they improve their body composition and so on and so forth.
• 40:21
  And so in general, it's been a pause for both men and women for that matter. Mean, women feel like their sexual function improves and their body composition improves. So I mean, in general, that's a couple, you know, now, like if you're undereating, some people will notice the opposite. Like I said, this is a problem with undereating because this is one of the biggest issues I see as a negative is a lot of people just undereat, and then they just like, Okay, no, I can't. I don't feel good, and maybe my testosterone goes down a little bit.
• 40:46
  But the number itself has been all over. I see a lot of people that go on a carnivore diet and their testosterone go from 300 to a thousand. I mean, I see that not infrequently, but just as frequently I see it doesn't change, or sometimes it goes down. But again, what we really care about is the clinical side, you know, because, you know, it's like, you know, as a physician, and testosterone replacement has become a little bit of an industry. It's a little bit shady, and it's a $45,000,000,000 industry right now.
• 41:10
  And some guys will do those. If your number hits certain threshold here, you got the prescription because it's money. You know, they make money, even if you need, whether you need it or not. And I think you have to really discern what is your clinical situation. Let's say your testosterone's low and you're obese and you're metabolically sick, I think you'd do much better for yourself by addressing those issues, losing weight, getting in shape, taking care of your lifestyle, eating better than just going on testosterone replacement.
• 41:35
  I think that's a metabolic band aid, which is probably not that effective, to be honest with you. I mean, certainly, yeah, there's the guys that abuse it and they take more than they need and they put on a lot of muscle and so on and so forth. But in general, I'd say just getting healthier, which I think the diet lends itself to, generally improves testosterone function. The fact that we've had dwindling testosterone over time is, yeah, I think is a direct result of certainly our diet. I mean, diet is absolute garbage right now.
• 42:02
  I mean, 90% of the stuff in the grocery store is inedible in my view. And then here's other things, know, sedentary stuff and a lot of the stuff. We've gotten soft as a society in general, and I think that's part of the problem. But I think the nutrition is a large part of that.
• 42:19
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. Well, it's it's it's where we're at. Right? It's a soft you know, good times create soft men. Soft men create hard times.
• 42:25
  And now we're I think we're at that transition of hard times create strong men again. Right? Which is what
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Well, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Let's hope. We'll see.
• 42:32
  We'll see where we're at with that. But, I mean, it's it it is it's it's disconcerting when I walk around, and I see so many guys in their twenties that look like they have no physical capability at all. I mean, it's like I feel sorry for them, you know, sorry for their potential mates if they can even find one, but I mean, it's we're in a strange time right now.
• 42:49
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. We certainly are. It's funny because I was actually just interviewing a, ex border agent last night, and he was telling me, he's like, look. He's like, you know, we have these these Venezuelan gangs coming up here. He's like, they're they're coming in.
• 43:00
  They're looking around in America, the same way that a tiger would look if he dropped them into a deer pin at the zoo. All these deer that have never had any threat, they're all overweight from eating unlimited food, and they're just looking at this, this they're just right for the taking. And so, you know, we'll see how that all all plays out. But, so with this so obviously, you know, you mentioned that with one particular study that there is about a hundred percent, improvement in diabetes. Alright?
• 43:27
  And so what we typically see, if you look at the trend with any kind of lifestyle change or whatever it is, that actually undermines the the treatments that come out of the the medical industrial complex. Typically, these lifestyle changes are attacked pretty heavily. Right? You know, even since RFKG has been talking about seed oils, I'm now seeing magazine or, you know, online articles coming out saying, well, seed oils aren't actually that bad for us, and they're trying to justify it because, know, there's an industry that's suffering at, you know, at the hand of the truth being brought out. So when it comes to the carnivore diet, are are you seeing that the the more mainstream perspective is attacking it or trying to discredit it?
• 44:05
  And if so, what what is the most common thing that you're seeing thrown at it so that, you know, say, you're you're telling one of your friends this and you say, oh, I'm doing the carnivore diet. They you they're gonna say, well, I saw on on MSNBC that they said that this is why it's bad. What are you seeing as as what's being loaded into the canon to attack the carnivore diet?
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, well, I think from a from a, I guess, quote, unquote, scientific point of view, they'll say, well, we don't have any long term data on these diets for one. That's and that's true. And we but, honestly, we don't have really robust evidence for any diet long term. There's no, like, long term randomized control trial on any diet.
• 44:39
  It's all associative data. It's all short term biomarker data. So we don't really have good data on that, but they still say, well, we think you're gonna get more heart disease or cancer or something like that, which is, there's no way to know that, to be honest, whether it's helpful or not. They'll talk about, of course, people will see, with any low carb diet, their cholesterol will rise, and that's really directly related to, as there's a really nice meta analysis that was done by a fellow by the name of Adrian Sodomota, last year, or actually earlier this year, came out in January of this year. '40 '1 randomized controlled trials shows that the major reason for rising LDL cholesterol, the so called bad cholesterol, on any low carb diet is how lean you get.
• 45:22
  The leaner you get, the more likely your cholesterol is to rise. There's a mechanism that underpins that called the lipid energy model, which just postulates that if our body is low on energy, and particularly carbohydrate, then our liver will traffic more fat to supply the cell's nutrition. Whether that's a bad thing or not is unknown. There are some studies that have come out now. A nice study out of UCLA by Matt Budoff has shown that it may be that that's actually not a problem at all.
• 45:49
  We can't make a definitive statement on that, but changing that. These are some of the things they'll attack it with. Now, they've also tied red meat eating and carnivore diets to being fascist alt right. They're trying to label it politically, and you know what pains me to see it, because I think nutrition isn't political. I mean, it's like all humans need to be eating well, regardless of what your particular political belief or ideology is.
• 46:13
  So I mean, it's really, I mean, lack of fiber. It's like, Oh my God, you're gonna have all kinds of bowel. And interestingly, like I said, we just published a study on inflammatory bowel disease, and carnivore diet has been wonderfully effective for that. And these are people with the most damaged guts on the planet, basically, that have Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis. It completely puts it into remission, at least has for many patients.
• 46:36
  And so that's the exact opposite of what you would think based upon the need for fiber and so on and so forth. And I can tell you, I haven't had fiber in my diet of any significant amount in eight years, and I'm totally fine. There's nothing wrong with my gut function. In fact, it's the best it's been. It's better than it's ever been in my life.
• 46:52
  And so I think the problem is it ruffles so many feathers in the nutrition space, and nutrition science is just not very good science. I gotta be honest with you. It's wildly There's a lot of conflict of interest in there for one, and it's just hard to do high quality human trials on diet because it's hard to assess what people actually eat over a lifetime. No one really knows. I mean, attempt to do it with food frequency questionnaires where they say, Hey, what have you eaten over the last five years?
• 47:20
  Nobody that accurately. We can guess, but I mean, it's only at best to guess, and a lot of people underestimate or overestimate based on what they think is healthy. But yeah, they're attack it on lack of long term data. They're gonna attack it a right wing thing in many ways. They'll attack it based on the tendency for some people, particularly lean people, to raise their cholesterol.
• 47:45
  They'll attack it on lack of fiber. All of those things don't really hold up to real scrutiny when you really look at the people, because I deal with these people every day. I've seen thousands of people that have put chronic, horrible multiple sclerosis, autoimmune conditions, Crohn's disease, psoriasis, suicidal depression. I mean, all these things completely in remission by doing this. And this is something that, again, it threatens a lot money, because think about how much money the pharmaceutical industry makes.
• 48:16
  I mean, the biggest federal lobbyist by far, and for every member of Congress, they've got three lobbyists on the pharmacy side. They got three people breathing down their throat, trying to get them to legislate in their favor. Yeah, mean, it's there. And as you know, the media is, who advertises in the media? Well, every time you turn on the TV, how many drug commercials do you see?
• 48:39
  It's like every second commercial is some freaking drug commercial. You know? And I don't even watch deep anymore, but even when I'm in a hotel and the TV's, I'm like, oh god. There's another drug commercial.
• 48:48
  Seth Holehouse: I think it's, like, more than half the funding. That's something actually think it was RFK Jr. Was talking recently about this that with with Fox News. He'd brought a documentary to them. He'd known that the former owner the guy basically, the guy said, look.
• 49:01
  I would love to play this, but 70% of my advertising on on my prime time spot's coming from big pharma. So I can't Yeah. I can't I can't run this.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And, you know, it's it's it's it's shocking because outside of The United States, I think you have only the country's New Zealand that allows pharmaceutical advertising on TV, which is I don't I don't know why we just don't banish that. I mean, that that should be you know, if, like, they get in know, if Trump and and RFK get into off, well, I don't know what he's gonna what his role may or may not be, but that should be something they do right away to say, Hey, look, you can't advertise on TV anymore. So sorry, too bad. Just like they did, they banned the smoking.
• 49:33
  Remember it was like you couldn't advertise cigarette brands on NASCAR or something. They made these decisions, and they easily could do that, But it's just gotta take somebody with some will to to stand up to these people.
• 49:43
  Seth Holehouse: I I agree. So as we're wrapping up, I wanna bring up two websites here. First off is your book. Right? So for folks that, do want to follow this, you know, the carnivore diet, you know, the carnivore diet book, this is this is your book.
• 49:57
  It's on Amazon. What would you do you have any other more recent books, or is this the main book that if someone said, hey, you know, Sean, how can I find out your greatest, you know, kind of work of knowledge? Where where would it be? Yeah.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, that I mean, I wrote that book came out a couple years ago, but I don't there's nothing in there that significantly I would change based on recent I mean, could include more state, more studies that support this, but I mean, on how to do it and what it means, it's solid. It's like you don't need anything else. I think that, what was I gonna say? I mean, yeah, I mean, one thing I will say that's important that I've discovered just about dealing with people, because I deal with people. A lot of people, you can give them the instruction sheet on what to do, and they still don't do it, right?
• 50:40
  So you gotta figure out how to motivate yourself because this is, like I said, a lot of people are dealing with addiction and it's tough to overcome without some support. So I think finding some place to get support, and there's a lot of online groups that do carnivore groups now. I have one of them, but there's a lot of them out there you could find. Like our company, Revero, like I said, if you need medical supervision, which I think a lot of people, it probably benefits to have a physician overseeing some of this stuff. Because as I mentioned, if you're taking a bunch of medications or have some chronic disease, it just makes sense to have a physician that is actually, and this is a frustrating thing that a lot of people I see that they'll go on a carnivore diet and they literally will put their disease in complete remission.
• 51:23
  And their physician tell them, well, you're hurting yourself. This is the wrong thing to do to you. And then they'll convince them to stop and then they get sick again. And then it just doesn't make sense. So our physicians are all, I mean, they're trained, they support this sort of stuff, they work with people.
• 51:38
  I mean, they help to deprescribe their medications. So I mean, that's something I would say inside. I mean, the book's great. I mean, I'm glad when people buy the book. I mean, but I mean, think it has everything you need to know to start this thing.
• 51:53
  But again, it's just that's the knowledge, but you gotta put the knowledge into action. Sometimes you need a little bit more of handholding, depending on who you are. Some people just say, hey, go do this, they do that. But other people, they got questions. They want support.
• 52:04
  They need motivation. Know? And I'm fine with that. I mean, I I you know, I know? And some people want there.
• 52:09
  Some people want just to kick their ass and yell at them. Hey. You know? Get after it. But, you know, some people want more more kind of just handholding.
• 52:16
  So it depends.
• 52:17
  Seth Holehouse: And and where's the the community or the group that people can find if they wanna if they wanna find like minds, for this?
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, my I can I can use mine for instance? I have a website called carnivore.diets, and I've been I'm running that for about, I don't know, last four or five years in in different variations. And we've had I've had ongoing communities forever. And I do a meeting every morning.
• 52:38
  Every single morning I go onto carnivore.diet and I have a meeting. Sometimes it turns into a podcast where I have a guest, but I mean, in general, at least several days a week, I'm in there and supporting groups and stuff like that. Then of course, our Roverero company, we also, I do the same thing with them because I think everybody needs some level of support and understanding, you know what, because it can be isolating. When you eat outside the norm, all of a sudden you're kind of like the weirdo, right? And feel like a pariah in many ways.
• 53:06
  And so I tell a lot of people like, Hey, if you're going to eat and you wanna answer questions, like you go to steak house, you order, If you just go to steak house and you just order, just give me a fillet with nothing on it, right? No side, no nothing. All of a sudden, everybody's gonna look at you like, What are you doing, man? What's weird? What's with you?
• 53:23
  But if you just say, Hey, just give me a steak and a piece of broccoli, you just don't eat the broccoli. Just leave it there. It's a decoy. No one's gonna notice. No one cares.
• 53:31
  It's like, know, okay, we do a very cursory check. Everybody's eating normal. No discussion needs to be had. So you just gotta fill your plate with decoyed food, then you say, Hey, I wasn't hungry or didn't look good to me or whatever. You make those excuses.
• 53:44
  So there's ways to socially integrate so you're not, you know, perceived as a weirdo.
• 53:49
  Seth Holehouse: That makes sense. Actually, I was I was gonna conclude by I have one final question for you. I'm glad you mentioned it. That that piece of broccoli, right, it seems like it's very innocent. Right?
• 53:58
  It's it's not, you know, not adding carbohydrates. You know, it's you got lots of different nutrients and stuff. So why why avoid the piece of broccoli?
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Well, you may not have to. It depends on how you tolerate it. I mean, I one, don't like broccoli. Don't think it tastes very good. But, I mean, I mean, it's, you know, it's it's interesting that, for instance, most people don't know this, broccoli didn't appear in The United States until 1920.
• 54:18
  And I mean, it wasn't anything that we even, it was part of our diet, at least in this country, was, I think originally maybe cultivated in China, I think, a few thousand years ago. I mean, so these things were never part of the long term human diet. They've all been sort of invented through various botanical techniques, I guess. But I mean, many people, it literally messes them up. I mean, it literally, it's something that like the gut is irritated by that.
• 54:47
  And you think about it, once you start, like if you think about eating a meal and digestion, we always think about a little bit of fullness, a little bit of discomfort, maybe a little gas. Some people, they belch or they fart or something like that. That's not normal, but we normalize. It's literally, if you think about any other system in our body, the circulatory system, the cardiovascular system, the lungs, the musculoskeletal system. If anything was uncomfortable or hurt, what would you think?
• 55:14
  Something's wrong, right? Why does my elbow hurt? Something wrong with it. Why does my chest hurt when I actually, that's something really wrong? But when it comes to our gut, oh, it's just a little bloating.
• 55:25
  It's okay. It's not right. It's either the wrong food or there's something wrong with your gut. One of those two things must be the case, but we've normalized it because everybody's eating the same way. Everybody's used to it, and we're a species that eats a diet that is not optimized for us anymore.
• 55:39
  And I mean, we can look at, I mean, it's interesting. If you look at sort of the history of the human species, now some people will say evolution is bullshit and everything like that, but if we just assume that there's some evidence that even if you go back you know, eight thousand years ago, you're more of a creationist, there was a period of time where humans were taller and more robust and stronger bone system than we adopted agriculture and we became smaller. Our brains literally shrunk. Our overall health, our dental health got worse, and that's because we changed our diet from what it had been. What it had been before was hunter gatherer with probably more emphasis on hunter.
• 56:21
  And so once we changed that out to a more grain based agrarian society, which allowed civilization to occur with all its pros and cons, our individual health has gone to hell compared to what we were. And so when you kind of dial that back, you you just realize what happens. But I mean, say, try it yourself. I mean, maybe broccoli's perfectly fine for you or whatever. You pick your vegetable and be like, I never liked vegetables.
• 56:44
  It wasn't a problem for me. As a kid, hated them. As a young adult, I hated them. I forced myself to eat them. I kinda, you know, you know, whatever, acquired palate type, acquired taste type of thing.
• 56:54
  You know? As long as you put enough animal fat on there and it's covered in butter, you could gag it down. But if anybody's eating raw, think about raw vegetation, plain spinach, plain broccoli, it tastes awful. You know? And not just That's true.
• 57:07
  I don't know. I mean, maybe some people some people some people like that stuff. But, I mean, it's just like, it just doesn't taste very good. Yeah. So You
• 57:13
  Seth Holehouse: take a plate of, like, raw spinach and you cover it with, you know, seed oil dressing and cheese and all this stuff.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Cheesy.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: It's not and egg and walnuts and cranberries and balsamic, you know, vinaigrette. Yeah. You can gag that down, but you can just say, hey. Let's go eat a bowl of leaves. It's like, why the hell would I do that?
• 57:30
  I mean, you think about what would be the motivation prehistorically. What would be the motivation to eat a bunch of the leaves? It's like, they taste bad. They're bitter. They don't provide any energy.
• 57:41
  It's like, why? I mean, you know, because I wanna poop more. I mean, that's literally what you do. It makes you poop more. If that's what you get if that's what you like, then you spend more time in the toilet, then good.
• 57:51
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. Or just eat a bunch of Indian. Seems to you know, that that chicken vindaloo really does that. So, anyway, Sean, I know that you you've got a time limit as do I, and I appreciate you giving us this time. It's know, I I've I've learned a lot.
• 58:05
  And, actually, I'll I'll be jumping into this within the next couple of days. I'm I'm gonna do it for probably a good ninety days or so, you know, maybe hopefully longer. But just as a to shake things up. So
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Let's see how it goes. Just eat enough. Like I said, eat enough.
• 58:19
  Seth Holehouse: I will actually, I I I love steak, so, I I will have no problem
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: eating. I've got a rib eye. I've got a rib eye. I'm gonna eat I'm gonna start eating about twelve minutes. I'll be eating my rib eye steak here in a few minutes and about half a dozen eggs.
• 58:31
  So that's
• 58:31
  Seth Holehouse: And how many ounces is this one near me?
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: I think this one is about, I don't know, about a pound or so, something like that. So, anyway.
• 58:39
  Seth Holehouse: Well, good. Sean, thanks again, man. It's been so nice talking to you, I I really appreciate you giving us this time today.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: Alright, man. Appreciate it. Thank you.
• 58:47
  Seth Holehouse: Thank you. Folks, have you heard about Dinesh D'Souza's new movie? It's based on his book by the same name, Vindicating Trump. So this movie is a searching examination about the real reasons why the left and the Democrats hate Donald Trump so much. They call him a tyrannical dictator, but in truth, it's the American government's authoritarian regime that's afraid, afraid that Trump's gonna dethrone them again.
• 59:09
  And as a charismatic leader, he mobilizes the people. He gets things done, and they don't like that. So that's why they're trying to get rid of him, trying to throw him in jail using lawsuits and indictments, even trying multiple assassination attempts on his life. So Vinny Kane Trump reveals why Donald Trump is the one man who can defeat the tyranny of the left. So, folks, don't miss Dinesh D'Souza's unqualified defense of Trump, Vindicating Trump.
• 59:33
  It's in theaters nationwide starting Friday, September 27. So make your plans now. Get your tickets online at vindicatingtrump.com. Again, it's vindicatingtrump.com. And what we're gonna do now is I'm gonna go and show you the trailer.
• 59:46
  It's about two minute trailer that for the movie, Vindicating Trump. So folks, enjoy the trailer and make sure you get your tickets at vindicatingtrump.com.
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: Somebody has to help this country. And if they don't, the country and the world are in big trouble.
• 1:00:00
  Seth Holehouse: Someone's gotta overturn the tables in the temple.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: Trump jumping into the presidential race. Power. She's a bit worried.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: Of the apprentice guy? You know the feeling of power. Could you handle it or would it devour? Power.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: They fear that power. You didn't do an insurrection. Had you called for one, there would have been one. And there would be one if you called for one now.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure I want that power. I want the power just to make the country better.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: America First.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: And that scares them. A lot about Donald Trump scares them.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: Let's look at everything. Campaign, his family. Let's get foreign eyes on him. We have one target. You know who he is.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: Going after their companies, their families. That is a dictator. It's a very dangerous time for our country. The goal is to put him in jail because they're so afraid of his voice.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I am your voice.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 6: We'll bury him so deep in legal, it'll bankrupt them.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: Broke Donald, in jail. Right before the election.
• 1:00:58
  Seth Holehouse: That's alright
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: for being that guy, but isn't that election interference?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 6: It's not interference if we do it.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: We just want a free and fair election.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 6: Sounds expensive.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: Ballots ain't cheap.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: Wait. Wait. Wait. Did you actually say the word buy the ballots?
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 6: We were able to purchase 10,000 ballots.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: That's terrifying. They cheat in many different ways. That's all they're good at. Ready to save democracy? We need to stop him permanently.
• 1:01:23
  Seth Holehouse: And that person will be risking his life.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: Too bad it's not the sixties. Right?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: It's the way you survived.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: I said, get me up.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: Trump has beaten back every attack against him.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: It's like a damn tourney. Gonna fix our borders, and we're gonna fix our elections. We're gonna win.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: This is my legacy.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: Vendicating Trump. The best is yet to come. Only in theaters, September 27.