Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Ocean's Eleven with Edgar Momplaisir

Transcript

Ocean's Eleven with Edgar Momplaisir · The Bechdel Cast

0:00
Speaker 1: On the dol cast, the questions asked if movies have
0:04
Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
0:08
Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
0:13
Speaker 1: it with the Bedel Cast. Hi, and welcome to the
0:16
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante. His name is
0:18
Speaker 1: Jamie Lofts, and we talk about the portrayal of women
0:21
Speaker 1: in movies podcast that you're listening to. That's right. Oh
0:24
Speaker 1: my gosh, oh that was a little chip and a
0:27
Speaker 1: little chip that was reminded me of your slurpers. My
0:31
Speaker 1: kissing sounds um alright, So anyway we talk about women
0:35
Speaker 1: in movies. We determine if movies pass the Bechdel test,
0:39
Speaker 1: which we do more than that. We do so much
0:41
Speaker 1: more than that. Yeah, But for those who aren't in
0:44
Speaker 1: the know, the Bechtel test is a test that requires
0:48
Speaker 1: that a movie has two female characters in it who
0:51
Speaker 1: have names, they talked to each other, and they cannot
0:54
Speaker 1: be talking about men whatsoever. Let's pay a test. Okay,
0:58
Speaker 1: Hey Jamie, hey, kit, do you like apple juice? I
1:03
Speaker 1: can't take it or leave it? And that passes the
1:05
Speaker 1: Bechtel test. Wow, and what an exciting premise for a
1:08
Speaker 1: movie will make content. Yeah, I see like a six
1:12
Speaker 1: or seven sequel franchise really fully bankrolled by Mots. We're sellouts. Mots.
1:18
Speaker 1: You listening all right? So we're here with a guest,
1:23
Speaker 1: as we always are. Um, they say, a friend of
1:26
Speaker 1: the show. But this is kind of an enemy of
1:28
Speaker 1: the show, my personal enemy. None of the show of me. Okay,
1:31
Speaker 1: so enemy of Jamie friend of me. Uh. He is
1:35
Speaker 1: a writer, a comedian and co host of the Culture
1:38
Speaker 1: King's podcast that's on the house Stuff Works Network. Edgar
1:42
Speaker 1: mon plus here and whoa coming in hot? Caitlin. Thank
1:49
Speaker 1: you so much for having me. Caitlin. You're an old
1:52
Speaker 1: friend of mine. It's been so good. I was talking
1:56
Speaker 1: to Caitlin fine. Thank you for saying Jamie and I
1:59
Speaker 1: have a long running beef because she has outdone me
2:03
Speaker 1: as a guest how Stuff Works podcast. You know you
2:10
Speaker 1: have to wow. Should I be like the referee of this?
2:14
Speaker 1: That means a new outfit? That sounds fun. Well anyway, Edgar,
2:18
Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you here, and we are
2:21
Speaker 1: talking about Oceans eleven, the two thousand one version directed
2:25
Speaker 1: by Steven Soderbergh. Yeah, Edgar, when did you first see
2:28
Speaker 1: this movie? Probably when I was a kid. My dad
2:32
Speaker 1: and my uncle's are big fans of the Channel Networks
2:35
Speaker 1: USA and T n T, so I would watch this
2:39
Speaker 1: movie and many other movies like it rotation. Yes it is,
2:44
Speaker 1: Yes it is. So i'd watch this movie as a
2:46
Speaker 1: kid all the time. I do have a problem with
2:50
Speaker 1: this movie and that I don't know the difference between
2:52
Speaker 1: the three very well. So when watching it, I kept
2:56
Speaker 1: waiting for that Elvis scene and it never happened because
3:00
Speaker 1: that's not in this one. And I was like, Oh,
3:02
Speaker 1: this Elvis scene is going to happen at some point.
3:04
Speaker 1: Wait which one is that? I think it's in twelve
3:06
Speaker 1: If I'm not really because I just also rewatched that
3:09
Speaker 1: and I don't remember it might be. I don't know.
3:13
Speaker 1: There's a scene where it's a bunch of elvis Is
3:14
Speaker 1: and then they all do and then that's when Bernie
3:16
Speaker 1: mac dies. Am I crazy? That does happen? I think
3:19
Speaker 1: maybe it is. Yeah, I don't think it's twelve, definitely
3:22
Speaker 1: not eleven. All right. Well, the only reason why I
3:25
Speaker 1: remember that scene specifically is because there was one time.
3:29
Speaker 1: This is a terrible story, but I'll tell this part
3:31
Speaker 1: of the story. Anyways, I was having sex with a
3:34
Speaker 1: person the day of my best friend's funeral. We were
3:37
Speaker 1: in a hotel and that movie was playing on the TV,
3:40
Speaker 1: and I think as a way to cope with the
3:42
Speaker 1: death of my best friend, I became immediately more focused
3:45
Speaker 1: on the movie and I was trying to see whether
3:47
Speaker 1: it was eleven, twelve or thirteen based on various clues. Interesting,
3:52
Speaker 1: I believe it was thirteen. I'm still not sure until
3:54
Speaker 1: this day, but probably the worst sexual experience I've ever
3:57
Speaker 1: had in my life. Yeah, you can never enjoy like
4:01
Speaker 1: you Trauma Bond speak for yourself, Jamie. That's true. I
4:05
Speaker 1: didn't enjoy it at all. Something very upset. Yeah, I
4:07
Speaker 1: had a really bad breakup. My boyfriend came over to
4:10
Speaker 1: be like, hey, I've been cheating on you. In the
4:12
Speaker 1: middle of a John ban A documentary I was really
4:14
Speaker 1: excited to watch, and I was so sad. Katie Perry, she, well,
4:19
Speaker 1: I'll never know how it ends, was she, Katie Perry. No,
4:23
Speaker 1: it was a really bad one that came out that
4:25
Speaker 1: where they smashed a pink said with a hand like,
4:28
Speaker 1: this is what it would have been like that. That's
4:30
Speaker 1: a very popular internet conspiracy is that John Baniy Ramsey
4:34
Speaker 1: grew up to be Katie Perry. What. I have never
4:36
Speaker 1: heard that before. The other good one is Avril Levine
4:41
Speaker 1: that she was dead and replaced with a body doublet
4:44
Speaker 1: I have heard that one. That's a good one. Interesting
4:46
Speaker 1: all right, Well, anyways, speaking of long cons wowsition, Jamie,
4:55
Speaker 1: what's your what's your history with Oceans eleven? I know
4:59
Speaker 1: that I thought it was the Big Chilly. It's not
5:02
Speaker 1: the Big Chill. It's actually a different movie. But I
5:06
Speaker 1: have seen it before. My mom made me watch it,
5:09
Speaker 1: and she was horny for various cast members, and so
5:12
Speaker 1: I think we probably watched that tant or something I
5:14
Speaker 1: guess I would like in middle school or something. Sure,
5:17
Speaker 1: I understand that particular attachment to it. Don cheatles like
5:20
Speaker 1: Cockney accident really really inspired a sexual awakening for me.
5:25
Speaker 1: Really not like a good Cockney accent though, right, Like
5:28
Speaker 1: it just sounds really fake. He's very hot in this movie.
5:31
Speaker 1: Don't in this movie? Don't you always? But his his accident?
5:37
Speaker 1: I was like, is that right? I don't know. I
5:39
Speaker 1: was struggling with I bought it. I have a clarification
5:42
Speaker 1: to make It's not Oceans eleven. It's a different two
5:46
Speaker 1: thousand and one's Las Vegas highest movie called three Thousand
5:49
Speaker 1: Miles to Graceland. Oh oh, well, that explains the Elvis
5:54
Speaker 1: is Yeah, why have I seen that scene? I mean,
5:57
Speaker 1: maybe you've seen that movie. Maybe I have seen and
5:59
Speaker 1: it's not Bernie mac who dies, it's bochim Woodbine. I
6:04
Speaker 1: would like to apologize to any Bokim Woodbine fans who
6:07
Speaker 1: were just like, how dare he disrespect him? There? I
6:09
Speaker 1: mean they're listening. They're listening. Get a lot of a
6:12
Speaker 1: lot of tweets. Thanks for your clarification. Community is gonna
6:16
Speaker 1: go fucking wild. I saw this movie in the theater
6:21
Speaker 1: Huge Break in two thousand one. At the time, I
6:24
Speaker 1: really liked it. I didn't know what this movie was about,
6:28
Speaker 1: or hadn't heard of the original nineteen sixty versions, so
6:31
Speaker 1: I like had no context for it, and I just
6:33
Speaker 1: went in kind of blind and I was like, oh
6:35
Speaker 1: my god, this is the best movie ever. So cool.
6:38
Speaker 1: I wrote like a paper about it in college. I really,
6:42
Speaker 1: for the longest time, really really loved the papers about
6:45
Speaker 1: so many It's because we went to college so much.
6:47
Speaker 1: It's because I went to so many colleges including Boston
6:51
Speaker 1: University four master's degree in screen writing. I hate to
6:54
Speaker 1: bring it up, but but yeah, I really enjoyed this movie,
7:00
Speaker 1: but I haven't rewatched it in quite a few years,
7:03
Speaker 1: so I am excited to talk about it. It's interesting,
7:07
Speaker 1: and we have for some reason, covered a lot of
7:09
Speaker 1: movies that came out in the year two thousand and
7:11
Speaker 1: one on this podcast, because every time you talk about
7:14
Speaker 1: something that happens in two thousand one, you have to
7:16
Speaker 1: figure out what part of two thousand one it came
7:17
Speaker 1: out in, if it was pre or post Shrek exactly.
7:22
Speaker 1: That is where that is, of course, the major event
7:25
Speaker 1: of two thousand and one. Yeah, Shrek was the last
7:28
Speaker 1: knell of innocence that because I was like July and
7:32
Speaker 1: then this came out in December, which I you know,
7:35
Speaker 1: it's just worth saying because when you say two thousand one,
7:38
Speaker 1: you want to know. And also it in you know,
7:40
Speaker 1: nine leven, unfortunately informed all media consumption habits forever after that.
7:46
Speaker 1: That's so interesting that it came out post eleven, because
7:48
Speaker 1: it's a movie chalk full of explosives. Yeah. Yeah, and
7:52
Speaker 1: then I was I was wondering that I had to
7:54
Speaker 1: stop it in the middle to be like, but it
7:55
Speaker 1: did so well, Like it was super sich like the
7:58
Speaker 1: highest grossing film two thousand one, right right, yeah, and
8:01
Speaker 1: like I don't I wonder why this movie like did
8:05
Speaker 1: so well, and it's I mean, I mean, it's an
8:07
Speaker 1: all star cast. It was like everyone hans of a
8:09
Speaker 1: listers in this movie. One of the reasons we're doing
8:13
Speaker 1: this movie is because Oceans eight is coming out, and
8:16
Speaker 1: of course there you can only have eight because there's
8:18
Speaker 1: only eight actresses total total in the word originally there
8:23
Speaker 1: aren't eleven actresses, so they can only have eight. Well,
8:26
Speaker 1: my guess is that they're gonna they're planning this as
8:28
Speaker 1: a trilogy, so they're going to do Oceans eight, nine,
8:31
Speaker 1: and ten, and then there's already eleven, twelve, and thirteen,
8:34
Speaker 1: and then they're going to bring it back around with
8:37
Speaker 1: a co ed cast. Is my guests for fourteen, fifteen,
8:41
Speaker 1: and sixteen. But if they're going to have to cut
8:45
Speaker 1: out so many people, I mean, I guess some of
8:46
Speaker 1: them are dead so they don't have to worry about that.
8:48
Speaker 1: But like, or they just totally recast it altogether, or
8:53
Speaker 1: they can just stop. I'm I'm tired, I'm tired. The
8:59
Speaker 1: extended Ocean in eleven Universe and then and then it's
9:03
Speaker 1: gonna be where do we leave off his four? Then
9:06
Speaker 1: it's going to be seventeen, eighteen and nineteen comprised entirely
9:11
Speaker 1: of non binary, gender fluid, gender queer people. Can they
9:15
Speaker 1: just make a movie like? Why does they have to
9:17
Speaker 1: be in? Oh? Okay, so we're well, let's let's get
9:21
Speaker 1: into the movie. But I just have to say that
9:24
Speaker 1: everyone hates Jeli right, but Danny Ocean is a worst
9:29
Speaker 1: name for a protagonist than Larry Jeelie and I will
9:33
Speaker 1: die on that hill. I couldn't. I was like when
9:36
Speaker 1: he's like, my name is Daniel Ocean, I was like,
9:38
Speaker 1: this is a fucking dumb name name. I disagree, I think,
9:44
Speaker 1: and honest I really do. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm surprised
9:48
Speaker 1: by this because it's not good and you thought I
9:51
Speaker 1: had better taste. I came in here being like, man,
9:55
Speaker 1: they're going to really dislike this movie. But then I'm
9:57
Speaker 1: surprised to see that. I'm more with Jamie being like, yo,
10:01
Speaker 1: this is this movie is kind of wild in some ways,
10:03
Speaker 1: and you're like, you're defending I'm kind of well, here's
10:06
Speaker 1: the thing. I love a good heist movie. And this
10:10
Speaker 1: is a fun romp. This is a romp and I
10:12
Speaker 1: love a good romp. And hey, all tender matches taken
10:19
Speaker 1: up this woman. Yeah, Daniel Ocean worst name than Larry
10:26
Speaker 1: ge sound off so my mentions, Look, Larry is a
10:32
Speaker 1: fun name, Larry with really terrible Okay, I'll do the recap. Yeah,
10:43
Speaker 1: let's do it. So Danny Ocean best name in Hollywood,
10:47
Speaker 1: the best name of a character ever, mixing up up
10:50
Speaker 1: with played by George Clooney. He's released from prison. He
10:56
Speaker 1: was there because he's a comm man. He's a thief. Yeah,
10:59
Speaker 1: he's that. But he was handsome. He was handsome. So
11:01
Speaker 1: they're like, here, you can be in prison for four
11:03
Speaker 1: years and we'll just let you go. It's handsome and
11:06
Speaker 1: white privilege. And so he's like, I have an idea,
11:09
Speaker 1: and he gets a gang together to rob three casinos
11:13
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas. Ever heard of it? And they're all
11:15
Speaker 1: owned by Terry Benedict. So that is a great name.
11:20
Speaker 1: Hate Danny Ocean. Love Terry Benedict. I don't know. I
11:24
Speaker 1: had an issue with his name being Terry Benedict, and
11:27
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I was just like, how do
11:28
Speaker 1: you get pet Nade. He sounds like a breakfast. Give
11:33
Speaker 1: me the Terry Benedict, I wish, I wish that. Okay.
11:38
Speaker 1: My two favorite character names for men, Dan Mansion, I
11:41
Speaker 1: think is a better name than Danny Ocean Dan Mansion
11:45
Speaker 1: and then Mike randoma from what's that from? You say it?
11:51
Speaker 1: Say it, Mike Randma. My grandma sounds like my grandma innocent?
11:58
Speaker 1: What an innocent joke. I'm gonna edit that out. Okay, Okay.
12:05
Speaker 1: So Danny is getting his gang together. They form a plan.
12:08
Speaker 1: They're like, we gotta get past all this security. We
12:10
Speaker 1: gotta get inside the vaul. Then we have to get
12:12
Speaker 1: back outside the vault with all this money. They have
12:15
Speaker 1: to heck into the main frame. And everyone has this
12:18
Speaker 1: like certain specialty. There's eleven of them total, get it.
12:22
Speaker 1: That's the name of the movie. Everyone's playing a few
12:25
Speaker 1: different roles in this whole heist thing. And then Frosty
12:28
Speaker 1: tips others don't, such as Rusty Ryan played by Brad
12:32
Speaker 1: pitt Uh. He and Danny are bros. They are BFFs.
12:36
Speaker 1: But he figures out that the reason that Danny Ocean
12:39
Speaker 1: is going after these three casinos and Terry Benedict is
12:42
Speaker 1: because Terry Benedict is dating Danny Ocean's ex wife Tests,
12:48
Speaker 1: She's fully lost in the Benedict sauce she loves. She
12:53
Speaker 1: orders him for breakfast every day. Oh, I'm on Terry's team. No,
13:03
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. He's bad. He's real bad. Okay. So then
13:05
Speaker 1: Rusty's like, Danny, what are you doing bros? Before hose
13:10
Speaker 1: And Danny's like, no, this isn't going to affect the plan.
13:13
Speaker 1: And then they do the heights. There's like some twists
13:15
Speaker 1: and turns, mostly everything goes according to plan and they
13:19
Speaker 1: get the money. And then at the end, Test basically
13:22
Speaker 1: learns that Terry Benedict is a capitalist who loves capitalism
13:28
Speaker 1: and capitalists. He loves his money more than he loves women.
13:34
Speaker 1: So Tess leaves him to go back to Danny and
13:37
Speaker 1: then they all live happily ever after. It's competent because
13:41
Speaker 1: I love money more than men. So in that way
13:44
Speaker 1: I can connect with Terry Bennedict's point of view. Yeah
13:47
Speaker 1: you're yeah, I'm a Benedict apologis. So not surprisingly, there
13:55
Speaker 1: is only one female character in this movie, the entire movie,
13:58
Speaker 1: the entire there I I made a list of all
14:01
Speaker 1: the women with speaking roles, and I think it's only
14:05
Speaker 1: four of them that we see on screen, and then
14:07
Speaker 1: a couple of disembodied female voices at the very beginning,
14:10
Speaker 1: and a lot of disembodied female body parts, yes, that
14:14
Speaker 1: are not given voices. And I would, with some exception,
14:18
Speaker 1: to probably extend those criticism to like most movies that
14:21
Speaker 1: take place in Las Vegas, of like using women as
14:24
Speaker 1: set dressing in a major way. Like there's literally the
14:27
Speaker 1: first big card game in this movie. You can just
14:30
Speaker 1: see like legs, yeah, in a window, like you, but
14:34
Speaker 1: just legs. One woman is allowed to be playing cards,
14:37
Speaker 1: but she can't say, you know, she's and we I
14:40
Speaker 1: don't know if we ever learned her name. I think
14:42
Speaker 1: her name is Holly, the woman playing cards. Yeah, oh no, no, no,
14:46
Speaker 1: she's a celebrity. Well I don't mean to explain, but
14:48
Speaker 1: like she's like she's a celebrity, and I think she's
14:54
Speaker 1: the lead from Charmed and the ideas that Bratt Pitt's
14:57
Speaker 1: character now is teaching, yes, famous people how to play cards.
15:01
Speaker 1: So she's one of the famous people playing cards. But
15:03
Speaker 1: again I put an asterist on that famous because not
15:06
Speaker 1: a single one of the people playing cards at that
15:08
Speaker 1: table are relevant anymore anymore. The closest a long yeah,
15:17
Speaker 1: and josh Joshua Joshua Jackson and Shane West. And then
15:23
Speaker 1: I didn't recognize any of the other people, so I
15:24
Speaker 1: didn't he's the lead from Charmed, like not Shannon Dartie, Holy,
15:30
Speaker 1: Marie Combs. Let's see holl Marie Combs of One of
15:33
Speaker 1: my favorite was Pretty Little Liars. Oh, I think that
15:36
Speaker 1: I guess that could have but then she just, yeah,
15:38
Speaker 1: she was like she wasn't allowed to talk very much.
15:41
Speaker 1: She basically just says call over and over again because
15:43
Speaker 1: she's playing poker. So yeah, it was okay, okay, Yeah,
15:47
Speaker 1: she is one of the four women who we see
15:50
Speaker 1: on screen with speaking role, but yeah, she's only in
15:53
Speaker 1: the movie for a couple of scenes and then we
15:54
Speaker 1: didn't never see her again. Another one is the is
15:57
Speaker 1: a blackjack dealer in the very beginning that Danny Ocean
16:01
Speaker 1: talks to for maybe thirty seconds. That's frustrating too, because
16:05
Speaker 1: the first like a couple of minutes of the movie
16:07
Speaker 1: you see there's like a few female characters. One of
16:10
Speaker 1: the people interviewing Danny when he's like getting out of jail. Yeah,
16:16
Speaker 1: like you can tell, like it's a female voice, but
16:19
Speaker 1: you're just looking at George Clooney the whole time. And
16:22
Speaker 1: then the black jack scene you hear the voice. I
16:25
Speaker 1: think you see her once in like one shot, and
16:29
Speaker 1: then you just look at George Cluney the whole time,
16:31
Speaker 1: and then once Bernie Max on screen, then you cut
16:33
Speaker 1: back and forth. But for the first couple of women
16:35
Speaker 1: who could appear on screen, they just like to be like,
16:38
Speaker 1: or we could just look at George Clooney right, like,
16:41
Speaker 1: we don't need to see women women. Well, the fans
16:46
Speaker 1: paid to see George Clooney, and dammit, thir they spent
16:49
Speaker 1: their to this blackjack deal there they everyone saved up
16:55
Speaker 1: their hard earned clune bucks Clooney cash. When I was
17:00
Speaker 1: hitting it hard at that gas station in two thousand one,
17:03
Speaker 1: I wasn't saving my money to see some blackjack. You're
17:05
Speaker 1: saving for some Clooney. Do you guys accept car fresh
17:11
Speaker 1: off of that Batman and Robin fame. Oh sure, Yeah.
17:15
Speaker 1: So that's half of the characters already, women who we
17:19
Speaker 1: immediately cut away from and then don't see again. Another
17:21
Speaker 1: one who named Charmaine. She's a stripper who plays a
17:24
Speaker 1: very very small role in helping them get an access
17:27
Speaker 1: card that they need to like hack into the main frame.
17:29
Speaker 1: And she's also very important because she is, to my knowledge,
17:32
Speaker 1: the first mother and daughter strip repair I've ever heard of.
17:36
Speaker 1: M met me and my mind go to the Foxy
17:42
Speaker 1: Lady and Massachusetts. When I heard that joke, I was like,
17:46
Speaker 1: this is such a weird joke to be making. Was like,
17:48
Speaker 1: say hi to my mom. Right, well, I want to
17:50
Speaker 1: talk about that conversation a little bit later. But so,
17:52
Speaker 1: the main female character is test played by Julia Roberts.
17:57
Speaker 1: We do not see her on screen until forty four
18:01
Speaker 1: minutes into the movie, and when she does come on screen,
18:06
Speaker 1: Matt Damon's all like, who's the best part in my day?
18:11
Speaker 1: And then we cut to Julia Roberts wearing like a
18:14
Speaker 1: foxy red outfit. There's like sexy music playing and she's
18:19
Speaker 1: like walking down the stairs like very so it's like
18:24
Speaker 1: very male gaze, like, oh, look at this foxy lady,
18:28
Speaker 1: And then we learned that basically the plot of the
18:32
Speaker 1: movie is that Danny Ocean is targeting these three casinos
18:37
Speaker 1: because Terry Benedict stole his woman and he wants to
18:41
Speaker 1: win her back because he sees this woman as something
18:45
Speaker 1: he can steal, just like any other like con that
18:49
Speaker 1: he wants to pull, Like, yeah, classic, I see romance
18:52
Speaker 1: in this, I don't know, and I don't know, I
18:54
Speaker 1: truly do see romance in this. Is like it is
18:59
Speaker 1: an interesting version of the plot of so many movies,
19:02
Speaker 1: which is like, I'm gonna trick her into loving me again, right,
19:07
Speaker 1: like the little road, you know, George Cloney's rebin is
19:10
Speaker 1: a little pause together, He's gotta he's gotta a rack coloon,
19:14
Speaker 1: a little rack Cooney a little He's like like a raccoon.
19:20
Speaker 1: But yes, sorry, let me keep explaining. He's gonna out
19:25
Speaker 1: Benedict Terry at his own game. And there I forgot
19:31
Speaker 1: that that was the setup of the movie. I just
19:32
Speaker 1: remember that they were stealing stuff. I forgot that it
19:35
Speaker 1: was like and then she'll have to marry me like wright, right,
19:42
Speaker 1: So like that's a big romance. I mean, like it's
19:45
Speaker 1: a big romantic gesture. It's a wide swing. You could
19:50
Speaker 1: look at it that way. You could also look at
19:51
Speaker 1: it and that he basically views her as property because well,
19:55
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't know how necessarily Danny Ocean feels
19:58
Speaker 1: about the situation, but I think it's pretty clear that
20:00
Speaker 1: the movie is coming from a standpoint where she's essentially
20:04
Speaker 1: a plot device, because it doesn't really make any sense
20:08
Speaker 1: that she is with Terry Benedict, but it's convenient for
20:11
Speaker 1: the story because then that motivates Danny Ocean to pull
20:15
Speaker 1: this heist, because we as we see in so many movies,
20:19
Speaker 1: we don't necessarily understand why Tests and Terry Benedict are
20:23
Speaker 1: together because they don't seem that compatible. Because Tests is
20:27
Speaker 1: not actually a fully realized, developed character. She's with him
20:31
Speaker 1: because it serves the story and it's convenient for the plot,
20:35
Speaker 1: and Test is a really poor, like underwritten character where
20:41
Speaker 1: a lot of like the tropes they lean into, and
20:44
Speaker 1: and every character in this movie is underwritten, maybe with
20:47
Speaker 1: the exception of Danny, like he's the only character that
20:52
Speaker 1: you were like, okay, I think I fully get where
20:54
Speaker 1: this guy is coming from, even though you know, I
20:56
Speaker 1: don't agree with it, but whatever, But there's just like
20:59
Speaker 1: too many bull in this movie in general, where nine
21:02
Speaker 1: out of the eleven men blend together. For me, I'm like,
21:05
Speaker 1: oh there, why would you put Matt Damon and Bradbitt
21:08
Speaker 1: like they have the same face. It's confusing, But like
21:12
Speaker 1: Test Ocean classic. We gotta give this woman a job.
21:16
Speaker 1: She's an art curator, like that's so many movies, or
21:20
Speaker 1: like she runs you know she like because I I
21:23
Speaker 1: wonder why that's like a classic, like more of like
21:26
Speaker 1: a rom com trope of like, oh, she's does business,
21:29
Speaker 1: but like girl business, you know, like not it's not
21:33
Speaker 1: too threatening if she runs a gallery. I don't know
21:37
Speaker 1: if you know this, but women can only be museum curators,
21:41
Speaker 1: or they work at a magazine in New York City,
21:45
Speaker 1: or they own a bakery, or they're a wedding planner.
21:48
Speaker 1: I love when they're journalists, but then they get a
21:51
Speaker 1: little too into this story and then the lines blur
21:54
Speaker 1: in there that kiss. Those are all good jobs as
21:59
Speaker 1: high paying job was Okay, they're good five figures a year.
22:04
Speaker 1: It's true. They have gorgeous apartments all the time. Listen, Okay,
22:08
Speaker 1: I mean she was baiting a casino mogul, you know.
22:12
Speaker 1: I mean that's a good place to be. The terry
22:15
Speaker 1: they say that he's worth nearly a billion dollars, So
22:18
Speaker 1: is that in usd S or Benedict? But I did
22:24
Speaker 1: want to say that, like I found it a little
22:26
Speaker 1: bit interesting that like a trope that I hated movies
22:29
Speaker 1: is that, like the person that she's seeing is like
22:32
Speaker 1: a bad person. Like I've always hated that in movies
22:35
Speaker 1: because it's just like they broke up with you originally
22:37
Speaker 1: because you were a douche are like you know, like
22:39
Speaker 1: I don't like the idea of like you can steal
22:41
Speaker 1: someone away from their partner may be based on my
22:44
Speaker 1: own insecurities of that happening one day, but like, um,
22:48
Speaker 1: I was like kind of rooting for it to happen
22:50
Speaker 1: because I was like, yo, you know this Terry Benedict
22:52
Speaker 1: dude's kind of a douche. But oh sure, I mean
22:54
Speaker 1: we don't like him as the audience of course, right,
22:56
Speaker 1: but like the Terry Benic character being so flat out
22:59
Speaker 1: like cartoon villainy mustache, twisty evil. I feel like the
23:04
Speaker 1: reason that's done is because Danny is not a good guy.
23:08
Speaker 1: And so you know exactly like you have to make
23:12
Speaker 1: someone wearse and the rules of this cinematic universe is
23:15
Speaker 1: girl has to be with someone so rofully, the one
23:19
Speaker 1: that is more handsome and less bad like, and that's
23:22
Speaker 1: just sort of what the rules of engagement are. There's
23:25
Speaker 1: never there's never a moment in the movie where it's like, oh,
23:27
Speaker 1: she's gonna she's gonna strike out, you know, yeah, and
23:31
Speaker 1: then open up her own museum. But no, yeah, exactly.
23:34
Speaker 1: So we find out at the end that Danny has
23:37
Speaker 1: set it up so that she will have a choice,
23:40
Speaker 1: but the choice is to pick between two men. So
23:43
Speaker 1: it's either do you want this ex con criminal who
23:47
Speaker 1: steals and lies about it or do you want this
23:50
Speaker 1: capitalist who treats you poorly and doesn't want to kiss
23:54
Speaker 1: you in public, which, like, what was that all about?
23:57
Speaker 1: I don't I mean. Also, it's like maybe Terry thatgic
24:00
Speaker 1: just like shy, maybe he does. Maybe maybe he doesn't
24:04
Speaker 1: defense of about it? Now all people like PDA makes
24:08
Speaker 1: some people uncomfortable. Who knows. Basically he is a bad
24:10
Speaker 1: guy and it doesn't make any sense that she would
24:12
Speaker 1: be with him. But yeah, So the movie sets it
24:15
Speaker 1: up so that she has given a choice, but her
24:17
Speaker 1: only two options are to be with one guy or
24:20
Speaker 1: different guy. And that's that's the thing with so many movies.
24:23
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, do you want to be with the
24:25
Speaker 1: vampire or the wear wolf? Do you want to be
24:27
Speaker 1: with the boy who bakes cakes or the boy who
24:30
Speaker 1: calls you cat nip, I just see good choices here.
24:33
Speaker 1: I I'm so stuck, guys. I'm truly you know, I
24:36
Speaker 1: truly said Edgar, come onto this podcast with an open mind,
24:40
Speaker 1: and I did, and all I'm hearing are good choices,
24:42
Speaker 1: you know. Like I think about Juno in the very
24:45
Speaker 1: very good movie Juno, where she had to pick between
24:49
Speaker 1: a high school senior or married Jason Bateman, and like,
24:52
Speaker 1: that's a good place for a pregnant underage girl. Good choice,
24:56
Speaker 1: good choice icon Jason Bateman really ally to all. The
25:03
Speaker 1: bottom line is that this movie, like so many movies,
25:06
Speaker 1: if they have a female character, it's usually just one
25:10
Speaker 1: of them in the movie treats them like they're a
25:13
Speaker 1: prize to be one. To borrow a phrase from Aladdin,
25:16
Speaker 1: where Jasmine says, I Am not a prize to be one,
25:19
Speaker 1: but she sort of is, but is like so many movies.
25:24
Speaker 1: But um, no time is spent developing her character. If
25:27
Speaker 1: she is on screen, she's usually like seems mean and
25:30
Speaker 1: yelly and like naggy. I wonder how much, like okay,
25:36
Speaker 1: if we did screen time, how much Julie robertis on
25:39
Speaker 1: screen versus how much time of this movie is used
25:42
Speaker 1: with long shots of a large pack of men walking
25:45
Speaker 1: down to hall ominously like it has to be three
25:49
Speaker 1: times longer in walking down halls. This movie cut out
25:54
Speaker 1: all the men walking down all the halls. Toymn is
25:57
Speaker 1: long A short film, a short film best, But there's
26:01
Speaker 1: just we've seen this peg and I was like, this
26:03
Speaker 1: is this is scary. There might be more security camera
26:07
Speaker 1: footage than Julia Roberts screen time. Honestly, yeah, absolutely, Like
26:11
Speaker 1: they're caseyf like problematic. Cacyf like probably has more right,
26:16
Speaker 1: right right. I just yeah, there, this movie didn't And
26:20
Speaker 1: I still love a heist movie, and I hope that,
26:23
Speaker 1: like I hope Oceans eight like knocks it out of
26:25
Speaker 1: the park and it's a fun, highst movie that you
26:27
Speaker 1: don't have to feel shitty watching because heist movies can
26:32
Speaker 1: be so fun. But I mean, obviously with Ocean's eleven,
26:35
Speaker 1: they're adapting it from an even more problematic version that's
26:40
Speaker 1: has anyone seen that one from I've seen it once
26:44
Speaker 1: a long time ago. I haven't seen it, so yeah,
26:47
Speaker 1: but like so basically, yeah, we've got the all female
26:51
Speaker 1: reboot coming out. Oceans eleven from two thousand one is
26:54
Speaker 1: already a reboot, and it's like forty years later, but Mr.
26:59
Speaker 1: Hollywood was like, let's make an Ocean's eleven reboot, but
27:03
Speaker 1: we're still going to keep it all men. So it
27:06
Speaker 1: took another almost twenty years later for them to be like, actually,
27:09
Speaker 1: what if women this time? Yeah, Frank Sinatra plays Danny
27:13
Speaker 1: Ocean otherwise known as Larry Jalie in the original version,
27:20
Speaker 1: and I don't remember how much is changed from that
27:24
Speaker 1: version to this. I'm assuming that some changes are made
27:26
Speaker 1: and hopefully this movie, right they Yeah, And the first
27:31
Speaker 1: time it's just was just Sammy Davis Jr. Yeah, it's
27:36
Speaker 1: just so dumb because all like all eleven dudes, like
27:40
Speaker 1: nine of them are so criminally underwritten that literally any
27:44
Speaker 1: of them could be women because they're not even written
27:47
Speaker 1: as like toxic male character. They're just written as like
27:51
Speaker 1: nothing right there. It would be so easy to have
27:54
Speaker 1: And I'm kind of surprised that by two thousand one
27:56
Speaker 1: they weren't doing like a wink wink. Even this is
27:59
Speaker 1: like set in the bar Sola, but like you can't
28:01
Speaker 1: even tokenize the woman in this part of Like there
28:06
Speaker 1: were so many opportunities where it was like, oh, this
28:09
Speaker 1: would be if there were one woman on the team
28:11
Speaker 1: where she would prove her competence and all the guys
28:13
Speaker 1: would be like, WHOA love that scene and that well
28:17
Speaker 1: that sort of happens in Ocean's twelve. I haven't I
28:20
Speaker 1: didn't watch Ocean's thirteen, so I can't totally remember who
28:23
Speaker 1: the extra person is. And yeah, so Tessa's character is
28:28
Speaker 1: introduced as one of the twelve in the sequel. That
28:32
Speaker 1: movie is I would say, even worse than this one,
28:34
Speaker 1: because even I think that's two four see and that
28:39
Speaker 1: to me, I would like to applaud Steven Soderbergh because
28:41
Speaker 1: he said, you know what, just wait three years and
28:44
Speaker 1: I get you guys frustration and you guys anger of
28:46
Speaker 1: your lack of representation, but like progress does take time,
28:50
Speaker 1: and to get Julia robertson there three years later, I mean,
28:53
Speaker 1: that's pretty impresive, stunning turnaround. Well, there's even a couple
28:58
Speaker 1: more female characters that one, because Catherine data Jones is introduced.
29:02
Speaker 1: We meet someone's mom eventually, but so tests becomes one
29:07
Speaker 1: of the twelve, one of the people pulling off the heist.
29:10
Speaker 1: But her skill, the thing that she contributes to the heist,
29:13
Speaker 1: like the only thing that she has to offer is
29:15
Speaker 1: her physical resemblance to another woman. So it's not as
29:19
Speaker 1: though she has like this great skill like, you know,
29:22
Speaker 1: because everyone like don cheatles good at um like explosives.
29:25
Speaker 1: There's a surveillance guy, there's Yen who does like all
29:29
Speaker 1: the like fitting into tight spaces, which isn't that glamorous
29:32
Speaker 1: of the job. True, it seems very claustrophobic. Um, but
29:37
Speaker 1: they all have like a distinct specialty. Whereas yeah, TESSAs
29:41
Speaker 1: just like, oh, you look like another woman, so you're
29:44
Speaker 1: going to help us out, and also we're going to
29:45
Speaker 1: make you seem pregnant time. And then the plot of
29:52
Speaker 1: that movie is basically just one big dick measuring contest.
29:56
Speaker 1: At least Ocean's eleven has the decency to not even
29:59
Speaker 1: really mention whom in one time. There's it was interesting
30:03
Speaker 1: watching um and I don't even know what this indicates
30:07
Speaker 1: about the movie or at this point in time at all,
30:09
Speaker 1: but you know, you keep seeing obviously these scenes with
30:12
Speaker 1: like eleven guys talking to each other, and I was like, Oh,
30:15
Speaker 1: they're gonna say something sucked up there. It's gonna be gross,
30:18
Speaker 1: it's gonna be whatever. But they don't. They really just
30:21
Speaker 1: talk about the heist. That's all they talk about. Women
30:23
Speaker 1: don't come up in this movie really ever, which is
30:27
Speaker 1: weird because it's the thrust and the reason they're doing
30:30
Speaker 1: it is because George Clooney want him wife back. But
30:34
Speaker 1: the dialogue of the movie largely like, you never know
30:39
Speaker 1: women existed. That's because we don't. And I don't know
30:42
Speaker 1: if you guys have ever hung up with ten or
30:43
Speaker 1: eleven men, but it's something I do every other day.
30:48
Speaker 1: We don't talk about women in those times. We usually
30:51
Speaker 1: are talking about heist. You know, different casinos that we
30:56
Speaker 1: want to hit. Any group of ten and see ten
31:01
Speaker 1: or eleven men together, they're probably planning a heist or
31:04
Speaker 1: hoping that a woman who looks like another woman comes by, right,
31:07
Speaker 1: just just to help out the team, you know Julia
31:10
Speaker 1: Real Guys Galt and Oceans Well in Oceans eleven. Whenever
31:15
Speaker 1: they are talking about a woman, that's usually Brad Pitt
31:19
Speaker 1: confronting George Clooney basically being like, you're not doing this
31:22
Speaker 1: for tests, are you were? You're just doing this because
31:25
Speaker 1: you're also a capitalist and you want a bunch of money, right, Basically,
31:29
Speaker 1: like Brad Pitt sees her as a complication, like she's
31:33
Speaker 1: poised as this thing that's potentially going to funk up
31:36
Speaker 1: their plans. And I do agree that one should not
31:40
Speaker 1: steal from casinos for the purpose of tricking. Julia Roberts
31:46
Speaker 1: pits point there, but I think there it's like an
31:50
Speaker 1: interesting like that's made another way that the test character
31:54
Speaker 1: is like used by the movie and then never developed.
31:57
Speaker 1: Because it's fine for characters to have specific reasons to
32:01
Speaker 1: be in the movie, pure you also have to write it,
32:03
Speaker 1: and they forgot they slipped. But the fact that, like
32:07
Speaker 1: George Clooney, displaying emotion or attachment to anyone is viewed
32:12
Speaker 1: as this massive liability for the for the group. Another
32:16
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to say in regards to Tests is
32:20
Speaker 1: that at the end, whenever she makes her choice, the
32:24
Speaker 1: very important choice that the movie presents her with where
32:26
Speaker 1: she only has two options to pick one man or
32:30
Speaker 1: a different man and not Oh, maybe I should leave
32:33
Speaker 1: these men all together and move to somewhere else and
32:38
Speaker 1: pursue Maybe I'll go and date someone who doesn't have
32:41
Speaker 1: a silly last name, or maybe I'm going to go
32:45
Speaker 1: back to school and study art history and open up
32:50
Speaker 1: my own museum. Anyway, basically, what's going to happen to
32:53
Speaker 1: the economy in seven years. She's basically made to look
32:58
Speaker 1: stupid at the end, where whenever she is like, oh
33:02
Speaker 1: my god, I didn't know what you were doing, Danny,
33:04
Speaker 1: and he was like, well I did, so it's fine.
33:07
Speaker 1: So the whole movie she's who are my wife? Again?
33:12
Speaker 1: When she's on screen, she's like yelling and seems really mean,
33:17
Speaker 1: and then she makes her choice to go back with Danny,
33:21
Speaker 1: and then she's like, oh, wow, what a stupid mistake
33:23
Speaker 1: I made dating Terry Benedict. I should have been with
33:26
Speaker 1: you all along, Danny. And it's just very frustrating her characters.
33:31
Speaker 1: I wants to talk about their first their first conversation
33:34
Speaker 1: together Danny and Tess, because he is looking for her.
33:39
Speaker 1: She does not want to see him and expresses that
33:42
Speaker 1: several times in the conversation. This is like another where
33:46
Speaker 1: there's like a bunch of rom com tropes inside of
33:48
Speaker 1: this highst movie where the guy shows up, he is
33:52
Speaker 1: not welcome. That is stated. She says, don't sit down,
33:55
Speaker 1: go away, Like there there's a bunch of different indicators
33:57
Speaker 1: that she doesn't because Terry fucking Addict is on the
34:00
Speaker 1: way a god among men is blazing down the hall,
34:06
Speaker 1: you know, but like she she doesn't want him to
34:07
Speaker 1: be there, and him staying there is like, oh what
34:10
Speaker 1: a you? You little devil? You like it's not made
34:14
Speaker 1: to seem inappropriate. It's just like George Clooney cluning the
34:19
Speaker 1: fuck out and it's like, no, but she actually wants
34:22
Speaker 1: him to stay, which is like implying that subtext and
34:25
Speaker 1: an underwritten female character happens all the time, and it's
34:29
Speaker 1: like super damaging and bad for sure. Get out of
34:32
Speaker 1: their clue, get out. I just wish that Clune with
34:36
Speaker 1: like two do one match dot Com is around. He's
34:39
Speaker 1: George Clooney. You can't but listen, okay, you can't. You
34:43
Speaker 1: can't gather up your boys for just some match dot
34:47
Speaker 1: Com like person. You know what I'm saying, Like it's
34:50
Speaker 1: got to be somebody special. I'm just saying he should steal,
34:53
Speaker 1: absolutely steal from Terry Benedict. But like, but also, I
34:58
Speaker 1: have an interior life. If and have your match dot
35:01
Speaker 1: Com profile, and that's a separate thing. Don't involve your
35:05
Speaker 1: don't don't mix work and and play. Have you ever
35:09
Speaker 1: had unrequited love before? No, I'm I've only been loved
35:13
Speaker 1: by who I want all the time my whole life.
35:15
Speaker 1: I've only had unrequited love in my life. And I
35:19
Speaker 1: can tell you that there are so many things I've
35:21
Speaker 1: done that have never resulted in the woman. And uh,
35:25
Speaker 1: to see this workout was you know, very very continued
35:31
Speaker 1: in't like not good behavior. No, I didn't say that.
35:34
Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I wanted
35:37
Speaker 1: to be very clear that I'm not telling young men
35:38
Speaker 1: out there to do anything. Actually, I'm telling most young
35:41
Speaker 1: men out there don't do anything. Please. Still, bad things
35:48
Speaker 1: happen when you do things. But I want to be like,
35:53
Speaker 1: it feels good to see a man win for once,
35:55
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like an even better see
35:58
Speaker 1: eleven men win Jesus. I mean I had to contain
36:02
Speaker 1: myself while watching this. Yeah, I mean there's a reason,
36:10
Speaker 1: I know, what look groundbreaking cinema to watch a group
36:14
Speaker 1: of men win. I mean, there's a reason I like
36:17
Speaker 1: this movie and I still like this movie. Um yeah,
36:22
Speaker 1: I mean I was entertained while I was rewatching it. Yeah,
36:25
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just the fact that he does
36:28
Speaker 1: this whole thing to basically prove his masculinity over another man.
36:32
Speaker 1: He's like, I have to like make sure that my
36:35
Speaker 1: ex wife, who doesn't love me anymore because she filed
36:38
Speaker 1: for divorce, I have to prove to her that I'm
36:41
Speaker 1: more of a man than this new man that she
36:44
Speaker 1: has chosen for whatever reason, and I'm better than him. So,
36:49
Speaker 1: I mean, just so much of his behavior is like
36:52
Speaker 1: not like that when when someone slips her a phone
36:56
Speaker 1: terrifying behavior and then called and like and and then
36:59
Speaker 1: the fact that it one of his big romantic gesture
37:02
Speaker 1: moments is like, I've been secretly taping your new boyfriend,
37:06
Speaker 1: Terry Benedict. Like, if you apply this to rettal life,
37:08
Speaker 1: you're like, holy sh it. This is if your ex
37:11
Speaker 1: comes out of the woodwork to be like, actually, your
37:14
Speaker 1: new boyfriend is not a good guy. I know because
37:16
Speaker 1: I've been secretly surveilling him for weeks. And well, then
37:19
Speaker 1: I would ask you, Jamie and Caitlin, what would you
37:23
Speaker 1: propose us to do? Would what would you propose? What
37:25
Speaker 1: would you say that he Danny Ocean should approach Tess
37:29
Speaker 1: and say, hey, look, I've done really bad things in
37:32
Speaker 1: the past. I've been a jerk, I've manipulated you, I
37:35
Speaker 1: lied to you, and I'm sorry I'm not expecting anything
37:37
Speaker 1: in return for this apology. I'm just saying that, is
37:40
Speaker 1: that what you're proposing he should do, right, That sounds silly,
37:44
Speaker 1: That sounds dumb, because I mean, that sounds like a
37:47
Speaker 1: lot of work. And if she says, if she is
37:50
Speaker 1: open to the idea of maybe rekindling a thing like
37:53
Speaker 1: a romance, there probably doesn't need to be a huge
37:55
Speaker 1: grand gesture. Maybe he just needs to pay attention to
37:58
Speaker 1: her and cater to her emotional needs. Well, I counter that,
38:01
Speaker 1: Caitlin by saying, every piece of media I've seen since
38:04
Speaker 1: I was born tells me otherwise. Then you're right. You
38:07
Speaker 1: should do what media tells you to do, because it's
38:09
Speaker 1: always right there, I don't, I mean. And then part
38:13
Speaker 1: of the reason she didn't want to be with him
38:15
Speaker 1: is because he went to jail for like stealing, stealing,
38:20
Speaker 1: and thenlined her right, and then he wins her back
38:23
Speaker 1: by once again stealing, un lying to her, and then
38:27
Speaker 1: it's like, but this time nothing, It's exactly. The only
38:31
Speaker 1: difference is he does not get fully caught, like he
38:35
Speaker 1: pulls it off. That the only difference. But we all
38:38
Speaker 1: know that things are only bad when you get caught
38:40
Speaker 1: and you get. Well, that is true there, but the
38:44
Speaker 1: the lesson there of like no women want you to
38:48
Speaker 1: keep doing exactly what you were doing, but just be
38:50
Speaker 1: the best at doing it. And it's like the terrible
38:54
Speaker 1: behavior that caused her to you know, he went to
38:57
Speaker 1: jail and then I don't know if they broke up
39:00
Speaker 1: forfore he went to jail, or if they broke up
39:01
Speaker 1: because he went to jail. I don't know if that's
39:03
Speaker 1: explicitly stated. He says that he received the divorce papers
39:07
Speaker 1: the last day he was inside, so they were technically
39:10
Speaker 1: married for a for the most of the time he
39:13
Speaker 1: was in jail, which I think we're led to believe
39:14
Speaker 1: is a few years, right, And it sounds like she
39:16
Speaker 1: wasn't like visiting him, right, but like just setting that
39:21
Speaker 1: precedent of like do the exact same thing, but as
39:23
Speaker 1: long as you get away with it, she'll love you.
39:27
Speaker 1: Like it's Yeah, it's a dangerous message to send it rules. Yes,
39:32
Speaker 1: I'm in love with Criminals. Does anyone have any other
39:35
Speaker 1: final thoughts about the movie? Uh, it's weird. There's there's
39:39
Speaker 1: really just test to talk about. Uh, this movie largely
39:44
Speaker 1: ignores women and a way that's so blatant. I find
39:48
Speaker 1: it almost adorable where it's like we've got eleven men
39:52
Speaker 1: in every scene and women don't exist. Like it's just
39:56
Speaker 1: very very haisty, hive mind. I think this movie could
40:00
Speaker 1: have done with more hacking sequences. I would have loved
40:03
Speaker 1: to see more hallway walks. I would have loved to
40:07
Speaker 1: see more emotional repression. And I think Alfred Molina would
40:11
Speaker 1: have been a great Terry Benedict. Oh, sure, see. I
40:15
Speaker 1: think there should have been more Danny Ocean standing in
40:17
Speaker 1: front of Trump Plaza. I thought they also should have,
40:22
Speaker 1: you know, between like Casey Affleck and then like Matt
40:26
Speaker 1: Damon saying tone deaf stuff all the time. I think
40:28
Speaker 1: they really could have gotten more problematic men in there. Yeah. Yeah.
40:32
Speaker 1: And the fact that we get shout out to Trump,
40:35
Speaker 1: very pro casino, pro gambling movie. I loved that we
40:39
Speaker 1: were seeing women's legs but never their faces or hear
40:43
Speaker 1: their voices and not know if it was attached to
40:45
Speaker 1: a body at all. Just the mystique, the feminine mystique. Really,
40:52
Speaker 1: I think it's fair to assume, and I'll say it,
40:55
Speaker 1: Oceans eleven a feminist text, definitely hundred sent. One other
41:01
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to say, just in regards to Steven Soderberg,
41:05
Speaker 1: I do think it's interesting that he goes on to
41:07
Speaker 1: direct movies that are far more progressive and far more
41:12
Speaker 1: sex positive. He directed Magic Mike. Oh yeah, so it's
41:16
Speaker 1: Girlfriend Experience and the Yeah yeah. So It's like, it's
41:20
Speaker 1: interesting and encouraging to see that the same director who
41:24
Speaker 1: could direct this competent but ignoring basically everything kind of
41:29
Speaker 1: movie can go on to make better, more conscious and
41:33
Speaker 1: just like generally those two I like those two movies
41:36
Speaker 1: way better in general. Um so, uh so that's good.
41:40
Speaker 1: Is Steven Soarderburg Sex Criminal are winged? Not that I
41:43
Speaker 1: have heard, But it's also hard to keep track of
41:45
Speaker 1: them all because there are so many. One last thing
41:48
Speaker 1: that I wanted to say, this is very important is
41:51
Speaker 1: that inside of the briefcase that ends up in the
41:54
Speaker 1: vault in the movie Oceans eleven inside is basically four
42:00
Speaker 1: mean Heart of the Oceans from Titanic. They're like little
42:04
Speaker 1: green jewels. And also Danny's last name is Ocean, so
42:08
Speaker 1: his heart could technically be called of the Heart of
42:12
Speaker 1: the Ocean. I don't know. This movie just completely swooned.
42:17
Speaker 1: It's so confusing to me, um, does it pass the
42:22
Speaker 1: Bechtel tests? Not even close? But okay. So I wanted
42:27
Speaker 1: to call back to that conversation that Brad Pitt is
42:29
Speaker 1: having with that character Charmaine, because the closest thing this
42:33
Speaker 1: movie has two women interacting with each other is Rusty
42:36
Speaker 1: saying to Charmaine, say hi to your mom for me.
42:39
Speaker 1: So he's encouraging her to talk to another woman. But
42:44
Speaker 1: she responds and says, tell her yourself. She'll be on
42:47
Speaker 1: stage in five minutes. So she's like, I don't want
42:49
Speaker 1: to talk to another woman. That can't happen in this movie.
42:52
Speaker 1: You talk to her. I want to see that movie, Like,
42:57
Speaker 1: that's the movie that is more interesting than the one
42:59
Speaker 1: I'm wanting. All right, let's write the movie based on
43:03
Speaker 1: our nipple scale, based on its portrayal of women zero
43:07
Speaker 1: to five nipples. I mean, gosh, it's confused, zero nipples.
43:13
Speaker 1: Like the one woman who has any significant screen time,
43:18
Speaker 1: which is still hardly any, and who has any sort
43:22
Speaker 1: of bearing on the story is basically just a plot device,
43:25
Speaker 1: a prize to be one. She's given no character development. Yeah,
43:30
Speaker 1: She's really just there to serve as motivation for one
43:34
Speaker 1: of the male characters. And to make him seem more
43:38
Speaker 1: complex and more sympathetic. So yeah, I have to give
43:43
Speaker 1: it a zero NIP rating. Even though I do enjoy
43:46
Speaker 1: this movie, I almost want to say, like not applicable
43:50
Speaker 1: because women are just not in this movie or mentioned
43:54
Speaker 1: in this movie, which I don't think we've ever had
43:56
Speaker 1: a movie quite like this, where usually if we give
43:59
Speaker 1: something zero poles, it's like it treats women terribly. This
44:03
Speaker 1: movie doesn't treat women like anything. They don't exist in
44:07
Speaker 1: this world. For Julia Roberts, who is you know, a
44:11
Speaker 1: prop I would give this movie five nibbles because I
44:16
Speaker 1: think that a woman could watch this movie and if
44:18
Speaker 1: there's a woman out there who's just like, you know,
44:20
Speaker 1: I'm in this relationship with this person that I'm not
44:23
Speaker 1: sure I like, or I had this career that I'm
44:25
Speaker 1: stuck in, that they can know there's a man out
44:27
Speaker 1: there who's been purposefully keeping her in the dark and
44:30
Speaker 1: you know, manipulating her and stuff like that, but with
44:32
Speaker 1: good intention, and that it's all going to work out
44:34
Speaker 1: in the end. We're all looking for art. Terry Benedict.
44:37
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm looking for mind, Terry Benedict, and I
44:40
Speaker 1: hope that he's listening right now. Well, I'll do you
44:44
Speaker 1: one better and hope that you get a Danny Ocean.
44:46
Speaker 1: I don't want to Danny Ocean if you've been listening.
44:50
Speaker 1: But it's not about what. I'm an art gallery, I'm
44:56
Speaker 1: an art curator, I'm an art I'm in Please marry me.
45:04
Speaker 1: Uh well, Edgar, thank you so much for being here.
45:08
Speaker 1: It was my pleasure. Where can we Where can we
45:10
Speaker 1: find you? On the web? You can find me on
45:12
Speaker 1: Instagram at awful gram, on Twitter at Edgar Mope. Was
45:15
Speaker 1: here on the Culture Kings podcast on how self works
45:18
Speaker 1: and I got this project coming out soon call sad
45:21
Speaker 1: Boy Edgar. Make sure to check that out and you
45:25
Speaker 1: can follow us on social media at Bacto Cast. You
45:27
Speaker 1: can rate and review us on iTunes. You can go
45:30
Speaker 1: to our website where you can buy our merch and
45:32
Speaker 1: also sign up for our Matreon and check out Oceans
45:38
Speaker 1: eight if you want we didn't really talk about. If
45:42
Speaker 1: you want more more well, speaking of our matren, if
45:45
Speaker 1: you want more of a take on female reboots and
45:49
Speaker 1: whether or not they are useful at all, check out
45:52
Speaker 1: our Ghostbusters episode. The two thousand and sixteen all female
45:56
Speaker 1: reboot episode of that only on our Matreon for more
46:00
Speaker 1: discussion on the all female reboot concept we get into
46:04
Speaker 1: it and otherwise. Jamie, I just want you to know
46:06
Speaker 1: that I would never steal a hundred and sixty million
46:08
Speaker 1: dollars from you. Thank you so much. I aspired to
46:11
Speaker 1: be your Tarry Bennett. I will betray you, all right.
46:17
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.