Latest / The Action Catalyst / Commerce Over Charity, with Bob Bush (Learning, Business, Values, Leadership)

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Commerce Over Charity, with Bob Bush (Learning, Business, Values, Leadership) · The Action Catalyst

0:00
Adam Outland: It's great to meet you Bob, and I'm excited to talk
0:05
about your most recent endeavors around this. One of the things I
0:13
really love is exploring the journey to the current
0:19
destination. When you see someone who's generated unique
0:25
success, I feel like your resume unique is a good explanation.
0:32
Really excited to dig into it, because it's so different than a
0:39
lot of the experience that people have that have been on
0:45
the show in the past. So hear a little bit of the journey. Of
0:52
course, we can talk about the current destination as well.
0:59
Bob Bush: Yeah, love to do that. I mean, sometimes I think the
1:02
journey looks more like a vagabond, and other times it's a
1:06
little bit more purposeful. But in all cases, it's been wonderful.
1:10
Adam Outland: I love it. So tell me, you know early days, what
1:12
were some of your conceptions of what your you thought your path
1:16
was going to be? What track were you on when you were at a young
1:19
person, and then what changed?
1:21
Bob Bush: Thank you for that good question. And I'm not one
1:24
to really do a lot of reflecting and reflection. I do a lot of
1:28
introspection, but not a lot of reflecting. And I would say the
1:33
first journey of any meaning that might be interesting to the
1:37
listeners is a journey that I took, in fact, my first year of
1:41
high school, I was born and raised in Southern Illinois, the
1:45
Mississippi River bifurcates, Missouri and Illinois. So I'm on
1:50
the East St Louis side, looking at the arch on the St Louis
1:54
Missouri side. And for four years, I commuted by bus, often
1:58
two busses, occasionally three busses to get to high school.
2:02
And so I would say my most significant data point on this
2:06
journey, as meandering as it's been, is that commute. You know,
2:11
I'm 1314, years old. Can't drive yet, needed to get to. I went to
2:15
a Jesuit boys school across the river, very fine School in St
2:19
Louis, that commute and being and I was undersized. I was a
2:23
bespectacle kid. I was a geeky kid. My book bag weighed almost
2:28
as much as I did. So you know those images of these little
2:32
kids with their backpacks and stuff, and so I'm kind of
2:36
dragging my, my pounds of books to classes every day, just the
2:40
interaction with the public, right? The lady who's, you know,
2:44
at 6:30am she's just finished her shift, or maybe the guy who
2:49
just finished his his midnight shift. And then there's the lady
2:53
who's on her way to work, because she's, you know, working
2:57
in a as a as a baker, and all these different sort of types of
3:01
people as I'm making my way to school, and I wasn't scared and
3:06
intimidated at all about it, but I'm like, How did my parents
3:10
allow me to do that? Right? And they said they were scared, but
3:14
I wanted to go to a good school. I enjoyed the challenge of that,
3:19
and I wasn't bothered by the two plus hour commute. I was up at
3:23
530 whatever I got done, I wasn't sitting at my desk by
3:27
eight for those four years. So that was the first journey, and
3:31
I remember thinking as I would go back and forth, either going
3:36
towards the arch or away from the arch. It was a tale of two
3:40
cities, and I actually wrote about that for my entrance exams
3:44
for college. How is it that such a short piece of river that's
3:48
less than a mile wide, the difference could be so grand and
3:53
so great, and so I'm leaving what would be called the inner
3:57
city of East St Louis, going into this beautiful campus with
4:01
very bright kids, and it comes from the St Louis side. I'm
4:05
sitting behind people whose parents own some of the biggest
4:09
companies in the Midwest, certainly in St Louis sports
4:13
teams and engineering companies and law firms, and that Taylor
4:17
two cities was very stark, but I learned through my classmates,
4:22
etc, that there was much more we had in common than not.
4:25
Adam Outland: Oh, that's really extraordinary. And, you know, I
4:28
think, you know, you get into a different environment. What I
4:30
heard in your story that actually made me want to ask
4:32
another question. First is it sounded like you said you You
4:35
made this choice that you wanted to go to the school.
4:37
Bob Bush: Yeah. And I can tell you, it's tough to make any
4:40
young teenager or kid, you know, at a certain point do anything.
4:44
It's just almost impossible. So one of the things that my
4:48
parents did is allow you to make choices, allow you to fail a
4:52
little bit, but not too much. A scared me is okay. Maybe a
4:56
broken arm is okay for. Some parents, but let's not lose a
5:00
limb, right? Yeah. And so yeah, it was truly a choice to go
5:04
because I I had a fire and an appetite for I was very
5:07
intellectually curious, and unfortunately, the programs and
5:11
the schools that were sort of the easy commute were going to
5:15
meet my academic interests, and so I had to there were two
5:19
schools that across on the st louis side that I that were
5:23
considered nationally ranked and world class. I didn't know what
5:27
the Ivy League was called and all that stuff. Then I just knew
5:31
that I showed a little bit of aptitude, and I wanted to be
5:35
around, you know, an intense sort of learning environment.
5:39
And so it was 100% my choice that my parents supported. The
5:43
tuition was quite expensive. I sometimes worked after school,
5:47
and it taught me discipline and but I it was a wonderful
5:50
academic setting. So it's certainly it was my choice, and
5:54
it was a choice that really put me on a very firm footing as I
5:58
went to other steps in that journey.
6:01
Adam Outland: Yeah, well, you take out any any part of the
6:03
rest of your story, and you already have, you know, a
6:07
predictive amount of success that you know is coming out of a
6:11
young teenager. Because the other thing I do know about
6:14
teenagers is that they're not typically very inspired to work
6:18
extra hard.
6:19
Bob Bush: Unbelievable.
6:20
Adam Outland: So to actively make the choice for academic
6:23
rigor and to get on a bus of strangers, to get down there
6:27
says just a lot about the kind of character you had.
6:30
Bob Bush: Two, brother. Two busses, sometimes three. But it
6:33
was fun. Learning was fun. Learning is still fun. I'm still
6:36
hyper curious. So it wasn't I didn't consider it rigorous or
6:40
challenging, it was just kind of a natural thing. So I guess I've
6:44
been blessed in that one.
6:45
Adam Outland: So take that observation and then move that
6:47
forward through college to your entry into the professional
6:50
world, like the things that just occurred naturally to you. Yeah,
6:54
okay, I'll take three busses to get to a school that's
6:57
academically rigorous that I can learn from, of course. That
7:00
makes sense. How did that interplay into your early career
7:03
as a professional?
7:04
Bob Bush: Oh, boy, so lots and so I'll tell you a story. I I
7:09
was a philosophy major. Went to a small college, Amherst
7:12
College, about 1600 kids. In fact, my college was about the
7:16
same size as my high school, and I chose there because it was one
7:20
of the toughest colleges to get into. I'd never been to Boston,
7:24
certainly not to Amherst. And we went to looked at the big, you
7:27
know, Ivy League schools, and I fell in love with the little
7:30
college setting, and studied philosophy and English
7:34
literature, read Latin and Greek. And so I'm I'm around
7:38
looking at all what my friends are doing and classmates, and
7:42
they're going to Wall Street, they're going to consulting
7:45
firms, they're getting their MBAs. And so wanted to learn
7:47
more about that. But mind you, I hadn't studied finance or any of
7:50
that stuff, but I applied to Wall Street because that's where
7:54
my friends were going. And I heard you could make a lot of
7:57
money doing it. And much to my surprise, they said, What does a
8:00
philosopher have to do with making money on Wall Street? And
8:03
I said, Well, I don't know, but I did pretty well in school. If
8:07
I don't have the same answer that all the other kids give
8:10
you, I bet I'll give you an interesting one. So they said,
8:13
Okay, you young whippersnapper, we're going to put you in sales.
8:17
And I said, No, I want to be in mergers and acquisitions.
8:21
They're like, You gotta be kidding. The M A guys, they're
8:24
the Masters of the Universe. Like, you gotta have a very
8:28
strong economic and maybe physics are certainly math,
8:31
grounding, etc, finance grounding. What do we do with
8:35
you there? And I said, Well, I'll learn it. Give me a chance.
8:40
And so I talked my way into being a financial analyst at a
8:47
major Wall Street firm, and they kicked my butt because I didn't
8:51
know nothing. 80 hour weeks, 90 hour weeks, some 100 hour weeks,
8:56
and I was put on the largest leverage buyout in the history
9:00
of finance, RJR Nabisco, and I was one of the analysts on that
9:04
deal. And so I went from studying philosophy to doing
9:09
high stakes, large buyouts as an analyst, and I had to make up
9:15
for what I didn't know. But I'm quite competitive, and I enjoyed
9:19
learning it, and I was a geek, so I didn't mind if I miss
9:24
social activities and stuff. I was sort of single minded about
9:28
learning this craft, but I had to bust my hump, and
9:31
occasionally I was hazed and all of that. And that's just part of
9:34
it. There were not a lot of African Americans on Wall Street
9:38
doing that kind of work at all. And so the notion of having a
9:42
mentor or having the support system, they, you know, they
9:46
throw you in the middle of the baton, and you swim or you
9:48
don't. And I just sort of, well, let's just get on with it. And
9:52
so I kind of Mr. Magood my way through all of these things that
9:56
others would say are challenges and and because, by the grace of
9:59
God, I. Always landed on my feet.
10:02
Adam Outland: Yeah, with that analyst role, you being as
10:05
curious as you are, like, what were a couple of key
10:07
observations that you made as an analyst that said, I can make a
10:12
career out of this thing?
10:13
Bob Bush: I'm not so sure. Cuz now, looking on hindsight, I
10:16
don't want to appear to be smarter than I was then, but
10:20
certainly so there's the observations I was making real
10:23
time, of course, and then there's the looking back 40
10:27
years observations. And so I don't want to sort of conflate
10:30
them, but it's kind of difficult to couple them, but sort of one
10:35
of the things that is a thread from my experience in high
10:38
school and the experience I had being in another pulled
10:42
environment with financial analysts and these Wall Street
10:46
bankers and stuff is that there really isn't that much
10:49
difference, a little bit of grit, a little bit of hard work,
10:53
being coachable, having some discipline. It's all the same
10:57
kind of stuff. So one observation was, whatever the
11:00
challenge happened to be, despite the fact I didn't sort
11:04
of walk in with the same sort of skill set, what I did have, from
11:08
my liberal arts background and my philosophy background was
11:12
very helpful. I got some fundamental understanding of how
11:15
to approach a problem, how to solve a problem, how to think
11:19
through a problem, thinking about methods and processes,
11:23
etc. And so I then I realized that why I navigated the
11:26
philosophy in the first place? Because I'm not particularly
11:30
intimidated by chaos or mess or data that doesn't seem to align.
11:34
I have a bit of a natural ability, thank goodness, but
11:38
some training to go into, whether it's any field, I think,
11:42
and through a little bit of hard work start myself out. And so I
11:46
think that was one of the key observations, is that this is
11:50
just another problem to solve.
11:52
Adam Outland: Beautiful. Philosophy is a lot of things,
11:54
but there are a lot of rubrics for problem solving baked into
11:58
philosophy. And I feel like so much of navigating business and
12:02
growing business is a matter of of untying the knots and solving
12:06
the problems that are both inside and inside the business
12:09
and and the big problems that are the business is designed to
12:13
solve for everyone else.
12:15
Bob Bush: That's right. Well, you know the biggest knot,
12:18
right? It's the people problem, that's the biggest knot.
12:23
Adam Outland: People are your biggest problem and your
12:25
greatest asset. So, so how do you get just help us skip over
12:29
to this component. You know, your your role as a senior
12:33
investment executive took you to a lot of different geographies.
12:37
I mean, well, outside of the US, what drove you in that
12:40
direction? Or maybe it wasn't your choice.
12:43
Bob Bush: Well, another sort of dot on this journey. We had a
12:46
friend and an undergrad who sister lived in Dubai in the
12:50
early 90s, and she was very cute, and he was very cool, and
12:54
he says going to visit my sister, as she lives in Dubai,
12:57
said, I'll come along. Never been to Dubai. And so we went to
13:01
the desert, and I hung out with Kareem and spent some time with
13:05
him and his family, etc. So that I first traveled to Dubai was
13:09
personal one, and just for fun. And while I was there, I was
13:13
talking to a gentleman who was a Bedouin, and he was dressed in
13:17
local garb, and he said, What are you doing here? And I said,
13:21
I'm on vacation. And he started laughing, right? This is the
13:24
early 90s, so he's struggling. Well, what are you doing on
13:28
vacation? I said, Well, I'd never been and my friend is
13:32
here. So we started chatting, and he said something to me,
13:35
very profound. He said, We don't need you here. And I said, What
13:39
do you mean? He says, we can send our kids all over the world
13:43
to your schools. So if you ever want to come back and you want
13:47
to do something here, it's not what you know, it's not your
13:51
learning, it's how you communicate and whether you
13:54
understand my culture and you can communicate with me. And he
13:58
literally took his hand and he moved it from his head to his
14:02
heart. You make that the head heart connection. And I would
14:06
love to have you back, but if you think you're going to go and
14:09
you're with your fancy schools, to come back and teach us
14:13
something or help us with something, don't need you for
14:17
that. And I really thought about that because I was contemplating
14:21
going to business school and doing more finance, etc, and I
14:24
shifted to go to study international relations, Arabic
14:28
at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies.
14:32
So rather than getting a traditional finance degree, I
14:35
went and started language skills, economics, cultural
14:38
orientations in Washington, DC, that actually helped orientate
14:42
me to, yeah, this is not about just the dollars and the cents.
14:46
There are people behind this, right? You know, there's the
14:50
famous the famous phrase that pilots don't fly planes, they
14:54
fly people. And so if you really want to get behind the numbers,
14:58
you got to understand. What those numbers represent?
15:01
Adam Outland: Yeah, it's not just about recording the data.
15:04
It's it's how your ability to interpret it that really makes a
15:08
difference, right? And kind of makes or breaks someone's
15:11
ability, you know, career path in that area, I can see that.
15:15
And I think the international component, I mean, just it must
15:19
have been such a good learning experience in and of itself, to
15:22
travel like you gave in that great anecdote, meet with people
15:26
and break down different barriers that we all have in our
15:30
own mind and perceptions of the world around us. So this brought
15:34
you to your experience with, you know private equity, you know
15:37
venture capital, in the experience that you had and
15:41
where that led you. What were some of the bigger transactions
15:44
that you were a part of that provided significant lessons for
15:48
you?
15:48
Bob Bush: Right, and so the role that venture can play in capital
15:52
formation and economic development, the role that PE
15:56
plays, I've had the good fortune of I moved to Dubai in the early
16:00
2000s to to work. I was an advisor to the Prime Minister of
16:05
the UAE and the ruler of Dubai, to talk about how to make Dubai
16:09
a viable and sustainable immigrant that was world class,
16:13
and what kind of services could be offered. And I was a small
16:17
part of a great team that helps develop the economic development
16:22
strategy of a wonderful immigrant and a wonderful
16:25
country, and so using the traditional tools of M A and
16:29
financial structuring and engineering and and
16:32
understanding optionality and all these things to bring it
16:36
into a very practical way, helping to develop a country,
16:40
develop a region. Fabulous. I was head hunted for the role,
16:44
and they wanted someone that had this curious admixture of of
16:49
skills and experiences. So the random guy I meet in Dubai is
16:53
why I study the Middle East and Africa, because I've done
16:57
finance. I had the finance I had worked in an entrepreneur work
17:01
working a couple of FinTech companies before it was called
17:06
FinTech around capital formation. Because while I was
17:09
in graduate school, I finally did go to graduate school, I
17:13
received a fellowship to travel through Africa, and I backpacked
17:18
through Africa for almost a year, visiting capital cities,
17:22
and one of the the first place I landed was in Accra, Ghana,
17:26
because Accra had just launched its its equity exchange and
17:30
Trying to understand how capital formation could have an impact
17:35
on the development of Ghana, the country, all these little bits.
17:39
And I didn't know sort of where these things were going to go,
17:44
but it's headhunted. It's like, Well, you got the
17:47
entrepreneurial bit, you got the economic development bit, you
17:51
know about the region. You got financial training. You seem to
17:56
be able to get acculturated pretty quickly. Would you come
18:00
from New York and and work with us here in Dubai? And I remember
18:04
telling some of my friends, and they were once, one funny story
18:09
is one of my friends said, you know, Bob, this is money making
18:13
Manhattan. What are you going to go do in the desert? And I said,
18:18
you know, I don't know, but they're saying all this crazy
18:22
stuff. If they can do half of it, this is going to be a very
18:26
interesting journey, and if it doesn't work out, I can always
18:30
come back to the US Now, fortunately, not married, no
18:34
kids, right? I didn't have those tethers, so that's how I ended
18:38
up moving to Dubai in 2003 and then working on what has to be
18:43
considered one of the most amazing formations, country
18:47
formations and formations in the last 100 plus years of what they
18:51
did in what was a desert into now a top 10 global destination.
18:55
Adam Outland: No kidding, and to be on the ground floor to
18:58
experience that. So there's a stereotype Bob that maybe isn't
19:02
completely pervasive, but that folks who choose private equity
19:06
and venture and these things that you know, you know, they
19:10
don't really care about social impact. But this isn't obviously
19:14
a true stereotype. There's many that are involved, including
19:17
yourself. And so what you know, you obviously it took a slightly
19:21
unconventional path to get into the path that you did through
19:25
philosophy undergrad, so you already were outside the box.
19:29
But what led you down the path of creating social impact, and
19:33
how has business helped with that?
19:35
Bob Bush: Yeah, I think you can sort of see the dots right. So
19:39
before you can criticize something, you might want to
19:42
become an expert at it. Everyone's got an opinion, but
19:46
every opinion is not informed. And so just starting with, what
19:50
does social impact mean? Right? That's environmental
19:54
sustainability, that's financial sustainability, right? That's
19:59
that, you know, those elements. Have some type of capital
20:03
component, and whether that capital is relational capital or
20:07
social capital or financial capital, I just see PE or
20:11
finance is just one of the tools that is necessary to creating
20:15
impact. And that social impact is financial impact, that social
20:19
impact is economic impact, that social impact is environmental
20:24
impact, etc. And so getting some proper training, and then
20:28
working in a in an immigrant and with other governments to sort
20:32
of figure out how we can take these traditional access to
20:36
capital issues, access to market issues, and create business
20:41
models around them. To me, this is a culmination of all of those
20:45
other things that I've done to see if I can take what to your
20:49
point, or skills, or one type of impact shareholder, ROI, and see
20:54
how you can if you have any kind of facility, right? And you
20:58
know, one of the, one of the challenges that the world of
21:02
Silicon Valley has and the world of Wall Street have is, what
21:06
kinds of questions are you asking? You ask the kind of
21:10
question about the kind of problem you want to solve, and
21:14
then the money goes to that. And you can, you know, do we really
21:19
need flying cars? But if that's the question, you can you can
21:23
come out a viable business model, there'll be someone
21:27
that'll help you fund buying cars, absolutely to your point
21:31
of sort of coming from the outside, whether that's the
21:35
outside, or having to commute to go to St Louis for school. I've
21:39
always had the blessing of being able to look at something a
21:44
little bit more broadly than most, and I apply that natural
21:48
instinct and these traditional skills to go, can I take this
21:52
totality of all these other experiences I've used in some
21:56
perhaps traditional ways, and bring those skills into
22:00
something by asking different questions and hopefully getting
22:04
better output and and I remember one of the first images that I
22:09
ever had that gave me a global perspective, and my father and
22:13
mother still have it. There was a an African boy who was
22:17
skeletal. Could not have been more than six or seven years
22:21
old, eating from a bowl that had a few pieces of rice, and I
22:25
remember asking them, and I still ask today, why does that
22:29
have to exist in our world with so much surplus? That's a
22:33
question that I had as a little boy, and a version of that
22:37
question I still ask myself, as we now are dealing much more
22:42
focused on the agriculture and coffee and cocoa and these
22:46
things. So it may look like it's this sort of security, strange
22:50
path, journey to get into social impact, but I think in the way
22:54
we define social impact, right? We're not a charity, commerce.
22:59
Can we use the commerce over charity? My partner may rest in
23:03
peace, has has a very viable foundation that has done a lot
23:07
of foundational work and has given millions of dollars in
23:11
education and health care. It's a nonprofit. When we started
23:15
this, he and I said, I we want this to be a social enterprise
23:20
that needs to use the same metrics of of operational
23:23
efficiency and capital efficiency as any other
23:27
business, because that's viability. And we're going to
23:31
use this model and the things that we've learned. So sir, you
23:35
are the passion and I'm the purpose, and together, we're
23:39
going to see if we can ask some good questions to have some impact.
23:43
Adam Outland: I love it. I remember as a 20 something year
23:46
old having a an early midlife crisis, very early midlife
23:49
crisis, where I was thinking about, what's the purpose of
23:53
life, what's the impact I want to have, you know, and that kind
23:57
of led me to like, what's the problem I want to solve? And I
24:00
thought, Wow, there's so many problems to solve, so I should
24:04
probably be in politics. You know, I'd studied government and
24:07
politics as a result, and there's a point where I just
24:10
shut myself in my room for a couple of days to just really
24:14
write out all the things that were in my brain and to process
24:17
where, where I wanted to go and, you know, looking back on my
24:21
studies, you know, studying government, politics at
24:24
University of Maryland actually led me to this belief that being
24:28
a politician actually is quite limited in the type of impact
24:31
that you can have. And that's true and not true, probably, but
24:35
I came to a personal conclusion that one of the biggest
24:38
challenges were, are the people? What we started, people are the
24:42
biggest problem, the greatest asset, right? And I thought to
24:46
myself, you know, if we could change or impact education, and
24:49
maybe even in unconventional ways, we could help young people
24:53
develop a higher EQ, some of the things that are not taught in
24:57
schools, but how we manage our. Emotions, so that their emotions
25:00
can't be hijacked by others. You know that they could have more
25:04
self confidence and self value, that they can reverse engineer
25:08
their goals? I mean, these things that had helped me have a
25:11
transformative experience in my life, that maybe that was the
25:15
best place of impact, and that led to a career of coaching and
25:19
development and building a business that does the same. And
25:22
so I hear your story, and I think I agree with you that a
25:25
big part of life is making sure we're solving the most important
25:29
problems, and everybody's got a different perspective on that,
25:33
but we have some brilliant people in this world that are
25:36
chasing relatively silly problems to solve, or in some
25:39
cases brilliant people that choose maybe to just be
25:42
important in this world instead of being of value. You know,
25:46
what I hear you doing is being of value. And so what are the
25:50
biggest problems that you think are worth solving?
25:53
Bob Bush: Wow, man, like, how long is this show? My goodness
25:56
first. Thank you for that. You know, do your own reflection.
26:00
And I love how you summed it up. You know, there are people in
26:04
the world that choose to be more important instead of being more
26:09
valuable. And it kind of links to the conversation that we had
26:13
a little bit earlier about understanding valuation mergers
26:17
and acquisitions, the valuation, the value to value an asset, and
26:21
understanding the values of an asset, right? And as much as
26:25
people can be a problem with regards to efficiency and
26:29
getting things done that the values are have to be about,
26:33
then it have to be distinguishable from the dollar
26:36
value. And this is a way that, when I'm sort of approaching a
26:41
problem, you know, I I'm very mindful of the, you know, what
26:45
are we measuring? How do we measure it? And is this, is this
26:49
going to be a values driven metric, or is this a valuation
26:53
driven metric? And they're both important when you're talking
26:57
about creating a sustainable model. And so in to get you your
27:01
question about what kinds of problems to solve, every problem
27:05
at some point has this tension, are we thinking short term? Are
27:10
we thinking long term? Or we want to, we want to, you know
27:14
whether it's health care, there's a cost benefit analysis.
27:18
Well, if we can get the vaccine out six months earlier, it is
27:22
going to have X percentage of people that can help, but Y
27:26
percentage of the people are not going to be helped because we
27:30
haven't, because there's maybe some additional things that we
27:34
can do. There's always contraindications, right?
27:37
There's always risks, there's always the obverse side of that
27:41
coin. And so to me, it's not so much which problem is more or
27:46
less important. It is. How do you tackle whatever problem
27:50
you're you're doing right? Because I don't want your
27:53
listeners, and I certainly don't think this way to think that.
27:57
Big problems, major problems. Oh, my problem is, I'm trying to
28:02
save the world from malaria. There are problems in your
28:05
neighborhood, there are problems in your school. The question is
28:10
the mindset around it, so let's not think about it in terms of
28:14
big problems or little problems. It is whatever problem there is
28:18
before you bring it, bring an interdisciplinary, bring a
28:22
diverse, bring a viable bring a perspective, a mindset,
28:26
recognizing that value and values are not the same thing.
28:30
Adam Outland: Yeah, yeah, well done. I think that's a good it's
28:33
a great perspective. You know, big problems are important to
28:36
solve, but at the same time, they don't have to be hairy and
28:40
audacious and worldwide, in fact, you know, we need a lot
28:43
more people solving the local problem that adds up to a big
28:46
solution. And it's really about having a problem solving mindset
28:50
and how to tackle them.
28:51
Bob Bush: That's right.