Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Johnny Mathis

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Johnny Mathis · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. Today we're featuring the voice of Christmas, Johnny Mathis.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Over the years, mister Matthis has released six Christmas albums.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: His iconic first one, Mary Christmas, was a tribute to
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: his mother and father and is one of the most
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: beloved collections of Christmas tunes ever. Now eighty seven years old,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Johnny's in his sixty sixth year as a recording artist
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: and still performing. In fact, we only had a brief
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes for this conversation because he needs to save
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: his voice for his rigorous performance schedule, which means we
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: didn't get to certain important landmarks in his life and career,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: like releasing the first ever best of compilation Johnny's Greatest
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Hits in nineteen fifty eight, and the beautiful story of
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: his coming out as a gay man in nineteen eighty two.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: But we did get to talk about performing with his
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: musical heroes like Duke Ellington and Nat King Cole. Mister
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Matthis also shares a story about how he turned down
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to qualify for the nineteen fifty six Olympics
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: to instead launch his music career. This is broken record
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: liner notes go the digital age. I'm justin Mitchell. Here's
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: my conversation with the legendary mister Johnny Mathis. Good morning,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: mister Mathis, Yes, sir, Oh my lord, Wow, it is you.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: You sound like you. Yeah. Earlier in the morning, I'm
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: really Johnny Mathis. Later on, I don't know when I am.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: My dad was my best pal. I kind of sort
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: of turned into him in the evening. Oh you do well.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I sort of remember him because he had a large family.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: He had seven kids, he and my mom, and I
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: was happy. It's about my career because I got a
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: chance to make some money and take care of my
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: brothers and sisters at an early time in my life.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so there's eight of you total. Yeah, incredible.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Reading out your parents influence on you, particularly your dad's
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: in music, was so touching to me. Yeah. We were
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: a large family, and usually when you're a large family,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: everybody had something to do to make it work. And
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: along the way, I was very involved in athletics as
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: a kid through high school and into college. In fact,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I was a high jumper and a hurdler, and I
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: my big train to fame, at least in the sports
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: section of a San Francisco Chronicle work that I broke
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the great Bill Russell basketball players. I broke his high
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: jumper record in college, another Bay Area legend. They didn't
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: realize that Bill and I were pals and it didn't
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: matter who won. Were good buddies. Anyway, When did you
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: first meet Bill Russell, the great Celtics legend. Bill and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I went to school at the same time. I went
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: to San Francisco State, He went to u at Tests
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: and I left school and went to New York to
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: make my first recordings. So he ended up in Boston.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I ended up in New York, and we were real
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: close together. Who used to call each other all the
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: time because the last time we saw each other we
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: were playing basketball. And you did leave to go to
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: New York to do your first recordings, and interestingly enough,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: I believe you were quite the athlete. As you mentioned,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: you were scheduled to do two things pretty much at
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: the same time. One your first recording for Columbia Records.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Your first recording session was scheduled in New York, and
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: you were scheduled to go to the Olympic trials to
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: qualify for the fifty six Olympics. Those two things were
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: in conflict, and you decided to go to the recording sessions. Well,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: my dad, he is a reason I thing, and so
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: when the occurrence happened, as you mentioned, there was no option.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I sang because he sang, and that was what we
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: were going to do, and nothing else we get in
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: the way. It didn't matter how good you were at
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: athletics and that you could go to the Olympics. You
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: knew because of those nights you spent with your dad
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: in the basement with him on the piano, you singing,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: that was what brought you joy and your family brought
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: you joy. That's what you were going to do. Yeah, well,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: thanks worked out really well, things worked out beautifully for
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: the both of you. Guys. I do want to talk
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: about you, of course, have some of the all time
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: great Christmas songs, some of the great renditions of Christmas songs.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: It's the holiday season, it's the Christmas season. And another
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: person beyond you that I always think about around Christmas
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: is Nat King Cole. And you got to meet Nat
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: King Cole as a kid, Is that right? He was
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: my vocal hero as a youngster. My dad sang and
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: nobody heard him except that. But he loved Nat Cole
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: and he brought his records home, and that was an
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: occasion for me because occasionally that Cole would sing in
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: San Francisco and my dad would take me to see him,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and once in a while I reme a very vague
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: thing that I got a chance to sneak backstage and
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: as he was passing through or something, I got a
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: chance to shake his hand. And then years later after
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I started recording NAT and I sang in some of
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: the same venues and I'd meet him coming and going
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: by the way, Do you remember me? I remember you
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and say a little funny word, nacking hole is so
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: just brilliant? What did you learn from him? In terms
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: of phrasing and vocal stylings? But most people don't realize
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: that he was not only one of the greatest singers
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: in the world, but he is one of the great
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: piano players. I remember having a wonderful conversation later on
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: in life with the great ascapedistone and Oscar said to me, oh, John,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: when I heard Nat, you know, he said, I wanted
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: to quit plan Anyway, the fact remains is that I
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: grew up in that situation in San Francisco. All these
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: famous musicians came through, all the time, and at a
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: very early time, my dad, God bless him. As seven kids,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: he and my mom. My dad never lost his instincts singing,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: and that's why I sing. So anytime anybody of stature
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: would come through San Francisco, my dad would take off
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: from work, come home, pick me up, and we'd drive
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: over and he'd sleep me in because I was too young,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: and I would get a chance to meet some of
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: these great singers elephants still seriv on Lena Horne not called.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: They all came through San Francisco. And eventually, after I
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: got my start and music and made it my life's work,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I worked in so many other venues along the way
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that he did, and I met him coming and going
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: on so many occasions. Oh I remember you. Diana Washington
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: wrote in her book that she remembered, I think, playing
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the black Hawk in San Francisco, and she heard you
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: sing and loved it, and you had to sing with
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: her a little bit, or sing with her band a bit.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well, everybody. The lady who discovered me owned
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: the black Hawk in San Francisco. Her name was Helen Noga.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: She and her husband and every famous jazz musician and
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: singer came through San Francisco and worked that place, and
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: of course I'm sitting in the back where nobody could
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: see me consective liquor, and I would meet them all
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: when I was sometimes I was sixteen, seventeen years old,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: and they remembered me after I made my first recordings,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: because my first recordings were made with George de Vakan,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: who was head of jazz music at Columbia Records, and
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: that was that was my beginning. So it's been a
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: great kind of growing up life for me, and I
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: was very fortunate to be raised in a place like
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: San Francisco or all these wonderful people came through. Yeah,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: your first recording session was quite a jazz affair, you know.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: You had the great arranger, Gil Evans arranging some of
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the great jazz players on that record, and then your
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: next record went in another direction. It seemed like that
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: determined your career because the next record, Wonderful, Wonderful, was
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: so warmly received and well received that you almost wanted
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: a more pop direction after your first record. Does that
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: seem fair? Yeah? Most people you talked to this thing
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: have many different aspects of their singing. For instance, I
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: was going to San Francisco State College, and my best
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: friend was my opera teacher, and of course later on
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: I got a chance to utilize my voice and voice
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: that were, you know, really reminiscent of the studies that
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I had with my operataers. But those are the wonderful,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: sort of vague kind of things that happened along the
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: way in my life that have made a great difference
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: in my being able to sing at such an early
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: age and to have some success. So the fact that
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I was raised in San Francisco with all these extraordinary
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: people coming through all the time, and I got to
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: meet them and watch them and get a little idea
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: about what it might be like to stand on stage
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and sing in front of people. And so it's I've
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: been very lucky in that regard. We're going to take
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: a quick break and then we'll be back with more
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: from a conversation with mister Johnny Mathis. We're back with
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: more from Johnny Mathis. What was New York like when
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: you first got there? New York was fast, loud, crazy, wonderful,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: everything everything that you could think of. That's what New
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: York was. And I was all alone. I was by myself.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I had never traveled, but my mom and my dad
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: had seven kids, and we were home bodies all the time.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Any kind of money we made, you know, doing odd
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: jobs and things we brought home to show with the family.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: But when I got to New York, I was alone.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: But I was absolutely amazed at the kindness that was
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: showed me by so many people who just happened to
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: meet me. They didn't know who I was, I didn't
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: know who they were, but they treated me like a
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: brother or a son or what have you. And from
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the time I went to New York, nobody knew who
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I was, and I got a chance to meet some
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: extraordinarily gifted people, and later on in life I got
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: a sense to thanks them. For instance, the one that
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: comes to mind most three is the great Bart Howard,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: who wrote fly Me to the Moon and so many
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: other wonderful songs, lovely composer. I was fantastics and he
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: was one of my best friends. He heard me sing
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: at an early age and some local nightclub, jab nightclub
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: in San Francisco, one of us doing nothing waiting for
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: the record people to have me come in and make
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: my first recordings. But I got a chance to wander
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: around New York and I, you know, I'd sit in
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the audience and listen to these singers and occasionally one
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: of them would the heavy come up on stage and
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: sing with him. So it was a wonderful kind of
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: beginning for me. I got the best of the best
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: of some of the finest musicians and singers at an
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: early age, and it helped me a great deal. Absolutely,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: speaking of some of the best of the best. One
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: of my favorite, absolute favorite records of yours. I don't
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: know if you've heard it recently or not, but Live
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: It Up, your sixty one album, Live It Up with
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Nelson Riddle, produced by Irving Townsend. Yeah. I was overwhelmed
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: by being able to sing with Nelson Little. And you
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: mentioned it that and I forgot all about that album
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: because that was one of my favorite things in the
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: world is to work with Nelson Little. He was so
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: sweet and so kind to me, and he was the
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: top of the world at that moment, you know, because
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: of his successful thanks to Natza and et. When did
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: you first meet Nelson Riddle or how did that come
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: to be that you worked with them on that album.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but people like Nelson liddle are so
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: gifted that they don't really equate you with other people.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: What they want to do is they want to sure
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: they're not with you, and if it turns out good, fine,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: and if it doesn't, and many times it doesn't, but
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: if it does, you know, all the better for both
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: of us. So I was very lucky in that regard,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and early on I met these wonderful composions and the
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: arrangers of music. Some of them I got a chance
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: to perform with. I don't think anything great happened. But oh,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: what do you mean? That is a lot of great music.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: You did a lot of great music. Come on, it's
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: so good. Thanks for reminding me you got it. I
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: don't know if you listen to yourself or not, but
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you should put that on. That is a hell of
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: a record. Oh my god. Good. I'll call the office
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: and have them send me a copy of it and
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: listen to it. Oh man, I don't know if you'll
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: be able to hear this too, but let me see
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: if I can play you the title track off Live
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: It Up. I'm planning to live a wild living. It's good.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I'd be good to fill my cup to the brown.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: It's too hard not to sing along. I'm sorry, I
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: don't want to ruin so good I remember that, my goodness,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: it was quite an exciting time for me. Yeah, when
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: you work with someone like Nelson Riddle, were you able
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: to make recommendations about the arrangements and things or would
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you mostly just leave it to the arrangers? Now I
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: was so in awed of Nelson Riddle. He was so
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: kind to me, and fortunately the recordings that we made
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: were successful. Yeah, he was very kind and very embracing.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: He knew that I didn't really know too much about
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: what I was doing, but he carried me in a
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: direction that worked out just fine. Oh yeah, did you
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: have a relationship with Frank Sinatra at all? I didn't
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: get close to Frank. I knew him because he lives
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: in California, very close to me, and I would see
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: him occasionally at get together that people would have in
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that regard. And now I was never close to him.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: But his daughter was one of my best friends, Nancy,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: and she used to begged me sometimes to talk to
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Frank and so that he would embrace her a little
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: bit more, because evidently he was traveling all the time,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: so he didn't see it wasn't that close to his children. Yeah,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: but I was very close to her, and she would
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: always ask me, when you see my dad, tell him
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: we let me mean we ended seen. Did you get
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the sense that Frank was maybe a little jealous of
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: you because your voice was so incredibly almost perfect, and
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: because you were kind of like the young kid coming up?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I have no idea what someone like him
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: would think of me, other than the fact that vocally
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I was completely different from his voice. Of course, the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: one who I was the most indemnied with or whatever
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: the world is, was not cold to me. He would
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the beginning and the end of music because he was
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: not only a singer, but he was a great physician,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and on occasion I would get his chance to see
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: him while he was rehearsing. Occasionally I would have my buddy,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: who was a piano player, and after he would finish
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: rehearsing that with his group, I would, you know, rehearse
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: with my group. And he remembered that from the time
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I was about thirteen years old. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. You
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: know there was a time in sixty three where you
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: left Columbia Records and went to Mercury. Big mistake. Yeah,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: tell me about that. How come? Oh, it's all money.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: And the person who was my business manager was all
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: about money. She was a very dynamic Armenian lady. She
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: owned a club called the Black Hawk in San Francisco.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Woman who owned the Black Dad. Yeah, and she became
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: your manager. Yeah, he became my manager. And she pulled
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: all the strings as far as who I was gonna
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: be with and what have you. Her best friend turned
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: out to be Georgia Vakan, who was the man's who
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: signmate to Columbia Records. So we made a jazz album
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: with some of the great jazz musicians in the world,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: but they used funny names. They couldn't use their name
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: because they all signed a record company. You had Art
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Farmer on there. I mean, you had so many great
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: players on that record. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and the
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: one if you look really your clothes. They got some
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: funny names, and they were very famous musicians because they
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: couldn't use the right name because yeah, there was times
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: recording wise to somebody else, hilarious. A couple of those songs,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I think fly Me to the Moon and Prelude to
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: a Kiss. You got to play with Oscar Peterson's trio
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: without Oscar, but you got to play Herbellis on guitar
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: was on that one and Ray Brown on bass. Yeah,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: that trio of Oscar Urban Ray, that's one I think
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: one of the great bands ever. And you got to
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: have like two of them are on your first record.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing. Yeah. I was absolutely over the move,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: probably stepped into something that I wasn't ready for vocally artistically.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: But if you make an effort, and if you're in
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the right place at the right time, your opportunity to
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: meet some of these people and even perform with some
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, and that was a situation with me
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: on that first recording that I did with George Bakin,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: who is the nicest human being I ever met in
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: my life, and he's the reason that I reshigned to
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Columbia Records. We'll be right back with more from mister
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Mathis after a quick break. We're back with the rest
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: of my conversation with Johnny Mathis. I want to play you,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: just briefly, just a little bit of your rendition of
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Manage a Carnival from your LA record which was on Mercury. So,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: even if it was a mistake to go I loved
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: that La record. Yeah don't. It is just mesmerizing hearing that.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I had so many wonderful opportunities early on
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: because I was signed by the head of jazz, George Vatkin,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: so nothing was taboo as far as my singing was concerned.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I had signed to Columbia by the head of jazz,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: and of course the head of popular music was Amanda
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the name of Mitch Miller, and he hated me. Why
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: he didn't like when I was singing, and he was
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the person that you had to talk to if you
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: were going to make popular music at Columbia Orchestra at
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: that time. He was a headman and he didn't like
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: me at all and what I was doing. But somehow,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: some way, the management at Record finagled him to record
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: with me, and we went in and did the chances
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: are top of No, you did great records with Mitch Miller.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't know he didn't like you. To start. Oh
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: my goodness, what do you think of Brazilian music? I
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: adore Brazilian music. I was raised on it because in
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: San Francisco, so many of the Latins came through there,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: and that that something that I desperately wanted to do
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: all my life was to make Latin music like Antonio Carlos,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Joe Beam, and I just imagine some of these people
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: must have just been big for you. You know. I
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: met so many of them in Brazil. Oh you did
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: you lived in Brazil? When did you live in Brazil? Oh?
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: When I was about nineteen or twenty. Yeah, I lived
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: there and made so many wonderful friends. I loved the langue,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: love singing in the Portuguese, the way they speak it,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: like Louise Bonfa and all these just gorgeous composers, and oh,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: it's amazing. It was amazing to live there as I
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: did at an early age. They never go to bed.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: All they do is have music in their life and
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: food and occasionally a little drink, maybe a lot of drink,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: maybe a lot of drink, maybe a lot of drink.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: When you went to Mercury, were you friends with Quincy
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Jones who was there at the time same time as you.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Oh he was the dearest, sweetest, kindest man in the
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: world and one of the greatest musicians. Of course. Yeah,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And all my life, musicians have embraced me because we're
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: doing the same things, except we do it all differently. Yeah,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: and some of us are better than others, but we're
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: all pals, and you know, we all know that we
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: struggle here and struggle there. And my goodness, some of
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: the greatest musicians in the world I met when I
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: was all alone in New York and I'd go to
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: jazz clubs sit there all by myself, and they'd come
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: over and sit with me, and we'd have a beer
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: or something. And I got to meet them very early
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: in life and had some lifelong friendships in that regard.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Did you ever get to meet Duke Ellington? What a
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: lovely human being, not only musically but personally as a
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: as a person. He was so kind to me and
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: so loving. I remember meeting that I had with him
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: when we sat and we played. He played the piano,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: because everybody came through San Francisco and they had time
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: off in the day and they would walk around or something,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and I meet them and do met me, and I
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: sang it for him. He loved it. I remember him
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: sitting down with me at one point, I must have
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: been nineteen years old, and he played the piano and
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: wrote down some things, wrote eve in some a few words,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and handed me the sheet to go and learn, and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: it was like, you know, it was the most magical
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: place for a kid like me to go up in
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: San Francisco. Everybody felt comfortable there, all the musicians who
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: came through, and I got to meet them and become
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: pals with them. Wow. Did you ever connect with Billy Strayhorn,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: who composed with Duke. I did have a meet meeting
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: with Billy, and I knew that he was the reason
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: for so much of the music that I loved. Yea,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and yes, I met him and he was very very
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: kind to me. Wow, what a lovely human being he
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: must have been. I was just to love what the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: work you did with with Duke Ellington. It was a
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: magical time for me. Yeah. And I love the record
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you did in nineteen ninety all renditions of Duke ellington songs.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: It's such a lovely album as well, in a sentimental mood,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: and you interpreted a lot of a lot of those
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: those tunes that we all love. How important was Christmas
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: to you growing up, mister Matthis, Oh Christmas is a
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: big deal. I come from a large family and of
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: course no money, but we didn't need money. We had
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: each other and we had fins and crazy stuff that
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: we played with. And Christmas was the very loving time.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Is the only time that my mom and my dad
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: and my brothers and sisters and I were all together
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: because my dad and my mom had to work their
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: butts off all the time and they were never home
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: really until late in the evening. So Christmas was wonderful
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: because they had to stake a stay around with a
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: family to make sure everybody was, you know, doing what
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: they were supposed to do. Yeah, and so Christmas time
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: was a very special time because everything was shared at Christmas,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: it seems. So that was a big deal for me.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: And the first thing that I did when I I
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: met this wonderful man, George Avakians who signed me to
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Columbia Records, was telling him that if he was really
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: as nice as he seems to be, even let me
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: make a Christmas album for my mom and my dad. Yeah.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: So you did that for your mom and your dad.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: That was your way of giving back to your mom
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: and your dad. Yeah, because maybe are the ones that
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: made Christmas happen for us. That fifty eight Christmas record,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Man Marry Christmas with Mitch Miller producing, That was great record.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I love that it's so good. I don't want to
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: take up too much of your time, if you don't mind,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: If I could play one more thing for you, I
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: gotta say recently, I was with my grandmother recently and
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I played her Marvin Gay's version of Maria, and I said, Grandma,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: listen to this if what do you think about this?
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Because I just was I loved Marvin's version of Maria.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: And she goes, you know, that's really nice. But have
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: you heard have you heard Johnny Mathis version? And I said,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: you know what I have and let me pull it up.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: And I pulled it up and I was, I was floored,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And I just want to play a little bit of
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: it if I feel comfortable with that that high note
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: at the end, when you listen to that song on
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: that high note at the end, Wow. Yeah. That was
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: always a traumatic thing when you're recording, because you get
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: one shot at it the first thing with the orchestra.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: But fortunately I was in a good voice at the time. Yeah,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: amazing version. You have one of the great voices of
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: all time, you know. Thank you so much for all
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: you've done in music and for taking the time to
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: speak with me today. Thank you. Thanks again to Johnny
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Mathis for taking the time to talk with me. You
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: can hear all of our favorite Johnny Mathis songs on
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: a playlist at broken Record byecast dot com. Be sure
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: slash Broken Record Podcast, where we can find all of
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: broken Record. Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Jason Gambrell, Ben Holliday, Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez. Our editor
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Sophie Crane. Our executive producer is Mia LaBelle. Broken Record
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
• 27:41
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• 27:45
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• 27:49
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• 27:53
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• 27:55
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• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Hendy Beats. I'm justin Richmond,