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Romantasy & Fairy Tales with Abigail O'Bryan · WriterCon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This week on the writer Con podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Writing groups, Get into writing group, maybe multiple.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
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  Speaker 3: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
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  Speaker 3: hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
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  Speaker 3: the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, award
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  Speaker 3: winning author of the want lnd Files book series.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you, Jesse Orrich. Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: us today. It's August now, first podcast of the month.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: So of course you know we're going to talk about
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  Speaker 4: writer Con, the annual writers conference we host this year
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  Speaker 4: at the Scurvin Hilton and Oklahoma City over Labor Day weekend.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: See Jesse's already ready to go.
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  Speaker 1: I'm excited. I like that hotel.
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  Speaker 4: It's Friday, August twenty. Well, it's both historic and haunted.
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: Perfect hotel. Yeah, you guys have probably already heard me
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: talk about having over sixty speakers coming and over one
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: hundred sessions of this and that and the other thing,
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: and pitching and contests, manuscript reviews, private consultations, et cetera.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: But you know what the coolest thing is, the best
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  Speaker 4: thing about all this is that it really is a
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  Speaker 4: genuine community of writers. It's like people eager to help,
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: people who have your back, and they understand the challenges
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: of being a writer in today's world. I think people
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: are often surprised by how warm and welcoming the group
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: is and how many friends they make and may keep
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: after the conference is over. I don't know, Laura, have
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  Speaker 4: you made any friends at writer Cons?
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  Speaker 5: Yes, yes, absolutely. I met a couple of new people
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  Speaker 5: just last year that I'm still in touch with and
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: that I've gone to have coffee with and have gone
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: to see some Shakespeare with. Honestly, it kind of feels
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: more like a family reunion to me when we meet up.
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  Speaker 5: I feel very close to most of the people who
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  Speaker 5: come to our conferences.
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  Speaker 4: Jesse, you, of course, are so standoffish that that's just
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  Speaker 4: a joke. Do you have a writer con personal experience
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  Speaker 4: that stands out in memory?
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  Speaker 1: One individual one? I mean mostly I do enjoy the
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  Speaker 1: karaoke night.
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  Speaker 4: That's what I was to say. So I guess we're
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  Speaker 4: gonna have to do it again. We've been debating it,
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  Speaker 4: but you may have just ended the division.
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  Speaker 3: I don't want to listen. I just like to watch.
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  Speaker 3: I did have I have participated in the past.
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  Speaker 5: Just want to have fun.
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  Speaker 1: That was a memory.
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  Speaker 3: I had met those people that night twenty minutes earlier.
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  Speaker 4: So like friendly conference.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great.
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  Speaker 3: Writer con The people who I had not met before,
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  Speaker 3: we were just sitting at the same table and we
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  Speaker 3: just instantly bonded over like what songs you would do
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  Speaker 3: at karaoke?
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  Speaker 1: And then one of them happened.
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  Speaker 5: So you meet me, I'll tell you right now. In
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  Speaker 5: the app, there's a current debate about which song we
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  Speaker 5: will duet Bill.
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  Speaker 4: We have been dwelling the last several years, haven't we.
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  Speaker 4: Last year it was that number from Greece. You're the
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  Speaker 4: one that I want for that I Got You Babe, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: Sonny bono, which came very naturally actually, and.
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  Speaker 5: Then it was Summer Love.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, we like that grease.
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  Speaker 3: I think I think it'd be funny just to do
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  Speaker 3: I Got You Babe over and over and over again
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  Speaker 3: every years.
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  Speaker 4: Very throw things at us. Okay, people, we can't decide
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  Speaker 4: what song we should do this year, so put it
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  Speaker 4: in the comments. What do you think we should Laura
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  Speaker 4: and I should sing at Ryder Coon this year? Okay?
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  Speaker 4: Important stuff, yep, yep, absolutely okay. And the website is
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  Speaker 4: writercon dot com. Our interview today is with Abigail O'Brien.
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  Speaker 4: She's a breakout fantasy author who not coincidentally, is speaking
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  Speaker 4: at writer Con this year. She has recently released her
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  Speaker 4: first novel called Iron Rose. It's a dark young adult
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  Speaker 4: reimagining of Beauty and the Beast with some hunger games
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  Speaker 4: mixed in there. It's getting rave reviews. We will talk
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  Speaker 4: to her about the book, her writing, how she got published,
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  Speaker 4: but first the news news story number one. Grassley introduces
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  Speaker 4: AI Whistleblower Protection Act. I put this in because I
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: felt we probably and talk. We didn't talk about AI
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  Speaker 4: at all on the last episode. So here we are again.
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  Speaker 4: Senate Judiciary Committee Chair Chuck Grassley, Republican from Iowa, introduced
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  Speaker 4: this AI Whistleblower Protection Act. The ideas to provide explicit
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: protections to whistleblowers to those developing and using AI. So
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  Speaker 4: right now, you know people could be punished, they could
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  Speaker 4: be subject to NDA's and all of that creates a
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  Speaker 4: chilling effect on the industry. So here we're going to
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  Speaker 4: deal with AI in a different way through potential whistleblowing. Jesse,
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  Speaker 4: you're the only one here I think is qualified to
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  Speaker 4: speak about this, Okay, and you've probably used AI more
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  Speaker 4: than Laura, so at least i'll start with you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course it is. I mean I wish they would.
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  Speaker 3: It's one of those things where, yes, we should, of
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  Speaker 3: course protect whistleblowers. But like, the one thing America does
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  Speaker 3: not have that other Western democracies have is actual privacy
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  Speaker 3: protections rent into their laws, Like we need to protect
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  Speaker 3: ourselves from all of our stuff being used. That then
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  Speaker 3: companies then want to charge us for trained off the
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  Speaker 3: things we've already done, Like we should be able to
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  Speaker 3: control what of ours is on the internet. I know
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  Speaker 3: this relates to another story we're about to do, but yeah,
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  Speaker 3: whistleblower should always be protecting I know, I did, I did,
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  Speaker 3: I did. Yeah, of course this is a good idea.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, listen, props to Chuck Grassley, who's not
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  Speaker 3: of an age to really think about AI that much.
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  Speaker 3: I'm glad someone on the staff is like, we should
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  Speaker 3: protect these people who could be gaining this information.
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  Speaker 1: We don't know what these companies are doing.
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  Speaker 4: I don't.
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  Speaker 3: I don't want to be the anti corporation guy, but yikes,
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  Speaker 3: I feel the same way.
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  Speaker 5: Yes, yes, I do as much. I don't. I don't
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  Speaker 5: use AI. I've caught a couple of students using on
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  Speaker 5: papers and I don't appreciate that. But most of all,
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  Speaker 5: I know a lot of writers whose work is being
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  Speaker 5: skimmed and used, and they're not happy about it. And
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  Speaker 5: I do think that protections are paramount. All right, And
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  Speaker 5: I have a cat here? Sorry, well, lucky you jumping
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  Speaker 5: against my computer?
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  Speaker 4: Do we need to take a break so you can
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  Speaker 4: boot him out?
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  Speaker 5: It's her? No, okay, I can't blame her.
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  Speaker 4: You can edit the cat stuff out later.
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  Speaker 3: That's what the people want.
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  Speaker 5: If I thought you corporate, i'd pick her up and
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  Speaker 5: show her off. She's just the most darling, beautiful little thing,
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  Speaker 5: my little lady Winifred. But she's off looking at cats.
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  Speaker 4: Now words and news story number two. Here's when you
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  Speaker 4: maybe didn't see coming. You may be able to copyright
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  Speaker 4: your own face. Why and who's ever even thought about
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  Speaker 4: that before? Anyway? As Jesse said, this is about AI, which,
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  Speaker 4: as you've probably heard, has made it possible for about
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  Speaker 4: anybody with some computer skills to make a super realistic
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  Speaker 4: clone of you doing or saying whatever. It's what they
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  Speaker 4: call a deep fake. Denmark, the country of Denmark, however,
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  Speaker 4: has a new solution that nobody else has tried before,
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  Speaker 4: and that is giving everyone the right to copyright their
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  Speaker 4: own face and voice, and then they brand a little
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  Speaker 4: C with a circle around it on your for it. No,
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  Speaker 4: they don't have to do that. You've just cover you know,
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  Speaker 4: the cop right symbol. Yeah, oh, well, anyway, you don't
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  Speaker 4: have to do that, but you can copyright your face
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  Speaker 4: and your voice. This is a pioneering ideal idea. But
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  Speaker 4: the idea, of course, is to give people more control
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  Speaker 4: over their likeness by expanding it into the realm of
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  Speaker 4: copyright law, control your own body in a whole different way.
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  Speaker 4: And it's first of it's kind in Europe. Okay, Laura,
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  Speaker 4: your face should be copyrighted just because it's so gorgeous.
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  Speaker 4: But do you think this Denmark law is a good idea?
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  Speaker 5: I like anything that stops exploitation. I just don't like
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  Speaker 5: to see anyone exploited, So I'm intrigued. I would like
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  Speaker 5: for us to follow this and see how it works
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  Speaker 5: for Denmark, although I can't imagine we could make it
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  Speaker 5: happen here right now, but I'm interested with it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, Jesse, what do you think I'm guessing you're not totally.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, some deep fakes could be harmless if it's
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  Speaker 4: done in fun at I guess.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I do love the Star Trek defics, for sure.
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  Speaker 3: But if losing those is the cost of making sure
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  Speaker 3: that we both citizens, politicians, leaders aren't deep faked and
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  Speaker 3: we have a legal mechanism for stopping those, I'm one
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  Speaker 3: hundred percent on board for that.
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  Speaker 5: Fun is subjective. One person thinks is fun, somebody else
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  Speaker 5: could find offensive or and anyone might be bothered if
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  Speaker 5: their images being used in a way that they don't
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  Speaker 5: approve of or weren't in on. That feels very intrusive.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I doubt either of you watched the one
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  Speaker 3: South Park episode they released for their newest season that
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  Speaker 3: involves some dep fakes of our president. And actually, okay, good, delightful.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I don't want that to be out loud,
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  Speaker 3: but you know my face, Yes, don't run for office, Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: don't worry for office.
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  Speaker 4: All right, let's move on to Kraft Corner because this
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: time around, we've got a return visit from friend of
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  Speaker 4: the podcast, Betsy Kolakowski, author of the best selling Barrettas
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: Codex series, and she's also got a new book out
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: called The Veil of Secrets. Today she addresses and I
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: believe me, you won't believe me. But just to be clear,
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: believe I did not tell her to address this subject.
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  Speaker 4: But the timing is perfect. She's talking about the gigantic
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  Speaker 4: benefit of it to writers of attending writing conferences. So
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  Speaker 4: take it away, Betsy.
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  Speaker 6: Craft Corner Hey, writer Con Family. Betsy Kolakowski, best selling
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  Speaker 6: author of the Veritas Codex paranormal thriller series. And if
• 11:56
  Speaker 6: you're a writer, whether you're just getting started or you
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  Speaker 6: have a slew of books on the show, the one
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  Speaker 6: investment in your career as a writer that pays off
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  Speaker 6: consistently is attending writers' conferences. And for me, writer con
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  Speaker 6: is the best, and here's why. It's where I got
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  Speaker 6: my start and it can help you too. Writing can
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: be a very solitary pursuit. It's easy to doubt yourself
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  Speaker 6: when you don't have any kind of feedback, when you
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  Speaker 6: don't have an audience and you don't have a path
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  Speaker 6: to publication. I had at least a dozen manuscripts sitting
• 12:24
  Speaker 6: by in a folder and had no path to get
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  Speaker 6: them published, no idea what to do with them or
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: if there were even any good Until I started attending
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: writers' conferences. The first one I attended was the Roe
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  Speaker 6: State Writers Conference, which later became the Red Stinker Writer's Conference,
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  Speaker 6: which later became writer Con, and now it is the
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  Speaker 6: one conference that is on my agenda every year, every
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  Speaker 6: Labor Day weekend. Don't ask me to go to the Lake.
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  Speaker 6: I will be at writer Con every year without fail.
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  Speaker 6: I got my start there because that's where I found
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  Speaker 6: my tribe. I met other writers, I met industry professionals,
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  Speaker 6: and I learned the lessons that were offered and I
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  Speaker 6: became a better writer as a result. And because of that,
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  Speaker 6: I found my publisher, and I got my books published
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  Speaker 6: and I got started as a professional writer. And now
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  Speaker 6: I'm doing it full time. I've retired from the day
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  Speaker 6: job and I'm writing all the time, new books coming
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  Speaker 6: out right and left. And that's why you should come
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  Speaker 6: to writer Con, because you find your tribe and you
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  Speaker 6: can't do this alone, and there are people there who
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: will help you. So I hope that I will see
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  Speaker 6: you this year Labor Day weekend at writer Con, and
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: if not this conference, maybe I'll see it another conference
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  Speaker 6: down the road. But every year, I will be at
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  Speaker 6: writer Con and I hope you will be too.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Betsy. Now let's talk to Abigail O'Brien.
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  Speaker 4: I'igaela O'Brien. Welcome to the podcast.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: Oh, thank you for coming. Okay, we always ask the
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: same first question, if you can offer writers one piece
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: of advice, what would it be.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Writing groups? Get into a writing group, maybe multiple. I
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: feel like positive peer pressure has been absolutely invaluable. And
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: then you never know with networking, like who's going to
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: be the first person to make a connection that's going
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: to be helpful to you in the future, Or maybe
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: these people are going to be your critique partners. Maybe
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: they're just going to be cheerleaders for you, and obviously
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: you're doing that for them too, Right, writing.
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  Speaker 4: The perfect answer to give when we're talking about writer Con,
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: which you are of course coming to and we're less
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: than a month away. Remind everyone, what are you going
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: to be doing at writer Con.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: I am going to be teaching a couple courses, so
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: marketing for introverts on the business side, it.
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  Speaker 4: Would be like everyone who ever thought to write a book, right,
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  Speaker 4: I have.
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  Speaker 2: A man I remember having the thought when of as
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: creating this course that like, gone are the Austinian days
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: where you get to be anonymous and slide a manuscript
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: under a publisher's door and disappear Like that's just not
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: how it goes anymore. But I think a lot of
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: us wish.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: Of course, in those days you also would have been
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: paid peanuts and wouldn't have been able to sign your
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: own contracts, So there's some given there, and like if you.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Were a woman, maybe it would go so well either.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: You know, there are a lot of there are a
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: lot of ways where the modern world is better. But
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: the unfortunate truth is that even introverts have to market.
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: Okay, marketing for introverts, it will help with that, And
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: I think I cut you off. Was there something else?
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Yes? And then so two other courses more on the
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: writing side, so thrilling action scenes that make sense. I
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: even though my novel is primarily a beauty in the
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: beast retelling, it has gotten recognition both nationally and internationally
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: for its action. And so I am bringing that expertise
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: in and really laying out not formulas, but more of
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: a framework for how to make really clear, engaging action
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: regardless of the genre of your book. And then the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: last class that I'm doing is using nature to create
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: monsters and magic. And I'm so excited about this one.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Nature is so weird, and I feel like this is
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: just going to help give the tools that you need
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: to be able to do your own research and figure
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: out how to extrapolate these natural phenomenas to be able
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: to make just weird and impactful monsters and magic systems.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I think that one is just going to be a
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: load of fud.
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  Speaker 5: I'm going to just added that one to my agenda.
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  Speaker 4: You do that on the app I'm coming thing. I
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: don't really understand it, but it's cool. App sound like
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  Speaker 4: great classes. So tell us how'd you get started writing?
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: Well?
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: Was it something you always wanted to do or go ahead? Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I was a reader, which I think is a
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: lot of people's answers.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: I imagine somebody who wants to be a writer but
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: doesn't read, forget it. I don't think that's happening.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's where it all started for me, And
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I think what really cemented it in for me is
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: just learning that I am not particularly good at anything
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: where you're supposed to come to a specific answer. And
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I was pretty good at anything where I could like
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: extrapolate and synthesize and be able to like explain why
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: this was my take. So geometry not so much for me.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Language arts was a yes. So I just kind of
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: leaned in hard to the things that I actually was
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: good at. And I found that a lot of the
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: stuff that I was writing for myself, primarily my classmates,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: were really enjoying, and so I began to do that
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: a little bit more seriously. And then I found a
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: story that I was really invested in, and that is
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Iron Rose. So that has actually that's the story that
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: made me decide, like, this is the career that I
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: want to have, this is what I want to pursue educationally.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: And here we are today.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's your debut novel, which you managed to
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: not only write but sell. While I think you're married,
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: you've got two children. I think you're also house shopping.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: How do you find i'me to write?
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  Speaker 2: Oh? I think in a lot of ways, I'm still
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: learning how to do that. I have had to put
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: into the fires this idea that there's just going to
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: be one system and one rhythm that works for me,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: and maybe it's maybe it's different for different people. I
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: certainly know people who like faithfully wake up at like
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: five in the morning. I'm not one of them. If
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I wake up in five five in the morning, I'm
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: a basket case all day. That's not when I'm going
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: to start being created. But no, I think the reality
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: is that I write at writing group, and I try
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: to set aside times for myself. But also I acknowledge
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: that there there are months where I don't write because
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I am doing other things. So, for instance, leading up
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: to this conference, there's a number of things that I
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: need to get done, and I know that my creative
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: bucket gets poured out with marketing, with like hiding classes,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And so I know now that
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: I need to not pressure myself to be writing creatively
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: while I have those other things going on. And so
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: once like after writer con that the fall is set
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: aside for me to be writing.
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  Speaker 4: Well, let's talk about this debut novel, Iron Rose. You
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: mentioned and this is in the PR two that it's
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: sort of a Beauty and the Beast retelling with maybe
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: a little Hunger Games mixed in. Tell us about it.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, beating the Beast meets Hunger Games.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: So it's a standalone. Yeah, it's a standalone, so you
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: get closure. There's no spice, but there's swoony romance, really
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: deep characters. I feel like the love story is really
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: meaningful and real. I've also had a number of people
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: reach out saying that they really relate to the main
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: female character who has to be strong for other people
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: and really give up a lot of herself in order
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to protect the people and the things that she loves,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: and just the exhaustion that she carries. Which I'm someone
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: who writes happy endings, so you can know that it's
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: gonna end hopefully. But ultimately it is it's a book
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: about hope, and so if you need something that has short,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: punchy chapters with action that pulls you through with romance,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: maybe something that you can read with your spouse, like
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: this is. I've had men and women really enjoy this book.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: But if ultimately you need something right now that is
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: going to affirm that even when the world and people
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: are very broken and hurting, that there is hope and
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: there's real goodness, this might be the book for you.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: Speaking of your pr materials, they also mentioned that you
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: are a big fan of Anglo Saxon poetry. I'm not
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: sure I've ever heard that.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: From any that hasn't come up before.
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: Or maybe outside of the podcast either, So I'm very intrigued.
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: Tell me about that, is that that's something that is true?
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: And how did how did that come about?
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: So this makes me laugh because in my I believe
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: this was my freshman year, I was like, gung ho, sorry,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: freshman year of college. I had decided, like, okay, Ian
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Rose is really worth like doing. Well, I'm gonna, like,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go to college for a creative writing degree,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to figure out how to like just
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: do it, and I'm going to get it done. I'm
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: going to get it published. And then I find out
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: that fifty percent of my coursework is poetry and I
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: was incensed.
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: And that's just part of the degree plan of that.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: That yeah, university, And so I hope not too precociously,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: but like, I really have to know why I'm learning
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: something in order to engage with it. I asked my
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: professor just like in the middle of class. This was
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: not private. I was like, so, why why are we
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: doing poetry when like basically the entire class was there
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: to write stories, and she was like, poetry is the
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: art of expressing with beauty a whole concept in a
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: very short amount of words. Do you think that would
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: be valuable for you as a prose writer? And of
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: course I was like, nice, I'll sit down out, let's
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: get to work. And so it was through that course
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: that I encountered Anglo Saxon. Anglo Saxon poetry, and the
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: thing that I love about it is that it doesn't
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: have end rhymes. That's not where the poetry comes from.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: The poetry comes from alliteration. And so this is something
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: that like, no one is going to notice this, no
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: one except for me. But the Beast character he has
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: a curse that has made him beastly inform but also
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: it is actively like trying to take over his mind.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: And whenever the animal, which is what I call that,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: whenever the animal takes over, I actually do Anglo Saxon
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: like a lot of alliteration, because for me, when I
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: was writing it, I was tapping into Grendel.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: Okay, tell me that your beast wasn't cursed because he
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: was rude to a lady at the door when he
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: was four. Okay, because that's just that never seemed right
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: to me. Thank you, I'll thank you.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: That's that's where the whole story started. So I'm so
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: glad that you brought that up. I have gotten a
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: lot of I guess the most common feedback that I
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: get on this book is like, this is Beauty and
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: the Beast, and also it's unlike any Beauty in the
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Beast retelling I've ever read before. And I think the
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: reason for that is that I took the questions that
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I had about the fairy tale, like, you know, if
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: you're looking at like the Disney movie. I've read the
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: other ones too, obviously, but like, if you look at
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: the Disney movie and you do the math based off
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: of the songs and the outfit changes and the rose
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff, the Enchantress curses a
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: fifth grader for not letting her in, which seems evil,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: And so that was a total shift for me because
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that means that the Beast character doesn't deserve
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: to be cursed. It means that they had the Enchantress
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: had some ulterior motive. What happens when the monarchy disappears
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: and someone with that kind of power and that kind
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: of malice is left, and then for the Bell character,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: my question is like, Okay, if that's the environment she's
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: growing up in, what kind of person is she, especially
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: because she needs to be someone who can be in
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: the same room as a beast and then fall in
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: love with them reasonably. And so that's where the entirety
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: of Iron Rose was born from. Was like, I love
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: this fairy tale and I just wanted to reach into
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: the holes and pull out a story that had a
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: cohesive and satisfying narrative.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: You made it better. It's an update, right, Yeah, I
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: mean that's what you hope for.
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: I'm intrigued. I think I'm gonna have to read this one.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: I've read that you live in the shadow of the
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: Wasatch Range. Where is that Salt Lake City?
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: Okay, we've flown through there.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: It's worth the stop, truly. The mountains are gorgeous.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, been there, but not in a while. What's a
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: normal writing day look like for you, Abigail? Now? I
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: realize you don't always write, but when you are writing,
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: what's the day look like?
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I so I tend not to do like full writing
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: days unless I'm at a writing retreat, which I try
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: to do a couple times a year. I know some people,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: like my husband, for instance, he can sit down and
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: be like, ah, eight hours and then just like go.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: That's not how I function. What I tend to do
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: is a cycle of like I'll listen to music that
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: feels in tune with what I'm trying to figure out.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I'll pre write a scene, and sometimes that's on my phone.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: If I'm feeling distracted and fidgety, I will write on
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: my phone because I already want to pick it up,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: and then that way I'm getting something down. And whenever
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I'm writing on my phone or writing on a piece
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: of paper, there are just some inhibitions that aren't there
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: for me, like they are whenever I'm sitting at a computer.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: So I will usually pre write something like that and
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: then I will go in and actually write the scene.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Now I don't write linearly. I kind of I haven't
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: heard a method for this. I mean quilting has been
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: thrown out there. But basically I tend to start in
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: the middle because I know people are like, oh, no,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: like the mucky middle. It's all I don't know, just
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: like hard to figure out. But for me, I love
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: the middle. The middle is like where all of the
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: sweetness happens for me, and so I start there and
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: then I sort of bleed out and figure out like,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: in order for this to be impactful, it means that
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: it has to be going in this direction. So the
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: ending needs to be kind of like this. And then
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: in order for this to be important, then it means
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: that it needs to be set up in the beginning.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: And so it's kind of chaos. I would love to
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: say that it's not chaos, but that's how That's how
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I end up writing. And basically I'm accompanied by a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: lot of coffee.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: And coffee's good, yeah, especially if you don't like getting
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: up early in the morning.
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: Right, process, Like, how do you approach a new project?
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: So when you're actually writing, you start in the middle,
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: you work way out. Do you have it mapped out already?
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: Have you outlined things? Or are you more of like
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: a kind of write it as you go?
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm kind of a write it as I go.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I am neither a plotter nor a pantser.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: Which category to know it?
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Man, this is the story of my life. It's like
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: the Ven diagram is like, here's one circle of like
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: what is generally accepted and known. Here's the other circle,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, is there hold on raising my hand?
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Is there an in between? Because I'm not in either,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I essentially there are keystone scenes. Currently I'm
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: doing fairy tale retellings, and so what I start with
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: is that same kind of process that I was talking
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: about with Iron Rose, which is like, what are the
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: things that I think are essential to the story that
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: have to stay and what are the things that I
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: feel like need to go. And with fairy tales, a
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: lot of it is like, hey, that's super problematic.
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: So for instance, yes, yes.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I am currently working on a gender bent sleeping beauty
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: retelling where there's a cursed king and a thread witch
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: and the like. Gender Bent came in very early on
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: because I was like, you know what, super problematic men
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: thinking that they can kiss women when they're asleep.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: We're not going to do We're just not going to
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: do that in the case of snow White, but whatever.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Right right, there's just all sorts of weirdness with that,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: and so obviously I want to like, I'm still making
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: sure that it is consensual, but making sure that like
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: we're just not going to perpetuate some of those things,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: so I isolate what those things are where I'm like, well,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: these things have to change, and then there's a lot
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: of stuff that I get to play with, Like the
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: whole magic system is based off of like threads and spindles,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: because I thought that would be a fun way to
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: nod to the fairy tale while expanding on stuff that
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: just really isn't touched on.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: So is that what we should expect to see from
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: you next? Yes, God, but it's work in progress, right, Yes.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I will say many people have many projects at one time.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I just hold one little flame in my hand at
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: a time, and I carry it until I can find
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: a torch for it, and then I let it go
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: and then I go find another little flame. But like,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I don't carry multiple at a time. My brain just
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: doesn't switch back and forth.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: Although you have a family, so it must a little.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: But I understand what you're saying. Yeah.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Actually, whenever you said writing day and I was like,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: I don't do eight hours, I was also thinking, like,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: part of my writing process is really just getting interrupt
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: did a lot, which makes it difficult to get to follow.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: So I don't recommend it, but it is part of
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: my writing day.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, Well we have to wrap this up unfortunately,
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: but it's been a pleasure and thank you and I
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: look forward to seeing you in very short time at
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: writer Con.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: really looking forward to it.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Bye bye bye. Just a few parting words. Writer Con
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: August twenty nine to September one, Oklahoma City at the
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: historic and Haunted Scurf in Hilton Laura and I will
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: be there, Jesse'll be there, Abigail will be there, and
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: about sixty other writers and agents and publishers and people
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: connected to the publishing industry. You can review the schedule
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: on our website. It's writercon dot com.
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: Is this won't be there? He's very upset about it.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: Is this the year you take writing from something you
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: think about in your spare time to something you actually
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: do regularly and successfully. If so, think about joining us
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: at writer Con. All right, until next time, keep writing,
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: and remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: See you next time.