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THIS IS LAST WEEKS SHOW WHOOPS! · Archons Corner

0:06
Well exactly, all right, everybody, what's going on? I am love
0:17
on the only wh okay? I thank you for everyone joining us in the
0:22
chat. Welcome to the New York Cono Podcast. I'm in the war.
0:26
Oh sorry, key Forge, key Forge. We're just we're prepping for what
0:31
happens next. But we got we got everybody at least from last week.
0:35
We got big Ze what's up? Z Hey, how's it going? And
0:39
of course the Ewakis of Ewokswollo key Forge community. Glad to be here.
0:45
He's been dying all week to say that I have and I have people who
0:50
recognize that and even say it when we're playing games. It's great. Do
0:55
people people sit down across from you and go hello, key Forge community.
1:00
Yeah, even when we started off on DMS, it's great. Really Wait
1:03
when you just said playing games? What game are you playing? Well?
1:07
I did? I did have No, No, I did have my ABR
1:11
match this week and other games. But there have been some people on TCO
1:15
that have recognized it. No. Nice Right on, um got a little
1:19
bit. We said we're going to go over some rules today. We are
1:22
going to go over some rules today, but first we want to talk about
1:26
Gamma. What does GAMMA stand for anyway, something something, something something gaming
1:32
nobody knows. I thought it was Game and Manufacturers Association, but I need
1:38
to check that one. Um. Oh, it's definitely not the General Aviation
1:46
Manufacturers Association. Yeah, Game Manufacturers Association, but immediately popped up. Yeah,
1:53
but GAMMA Big Convention. I don't know where it is. Basically,
1:59
that's where a lot of your game stores go to right to see the new
2:01
product, see what's coming out. They were in Reno. They were in
2:05
Reno, Nevada, Wookie. Oh is it always in Reno or does it
2:08
float? I don't know. It's so a little blurb that immediately pops up
2:14
Game Manufactural Associations, nonprofit trade association based in Columbus, Ohio. But it
2:19
says for this year, you can see the dates and that's Reno. Okay,
2:22
And I have that heard that from multiple other sources this week too.
2:25
I've never been to Gamma. I know people that have gone to Gamma,
2:29
but I don't know much about it. If you remember, when key Forge
2:32
first started, they were handing out the Gamma decks, which all sucked.
2:37
Every last one of them were horrible, So well, maybe not a really
2:40
I've never seen a good Gamma deck, but does not know this. This
2:44
is not fact check, This is not fact checked at all. But I've
2:47
never sat across the table from a Gamma deck. They didn't bring that many
2:53
of them, so odds are they do all suck? But we do not
2:55
know this for such. But kind of the big thing is, and I
3:00
don't know if this is controversial or not, but Mark mark h posted a
3:05
photo into our discord today showing out that they're giving out unchained and Winds of
3:10
Exchange decks. You guys, I mean, are you guys upset about this?
3:15
I would be controversial. Well, you know there's that look who wins
3:21
of Exchange decks? Right? I don't know. I heard about this game
3:23
found thing that they launched, and like, oh man, it was kind
3:28
of like a little bit of a nightmare and a huge setback. Well it
3:30
wasn't a setback, but they were right on time, right, and and
3:34
now people who have time, yeah, I mean, and now now people
3:39
who have put money to get these you know, unchained in worlds Winds of
3:44
Exchange decks aren't getting them and they're getting handed out to people who didn't put
3:47
money towards Yeah. I don't know, but I know something. They're upset.
3:53
Yeah, I know some people are upset because you have decks that were
3:55
passed out before people from gametown got it. But to be honest, Gamma
4:00
is set up for individuals in the gaming industry. So these are store owners.
4:05
These are people who are game store employees, and frankly, that's who
4:11
we have to get this in the hands of. Right now. We need
4:14
to make sure that they're aware, Hey, this game is not dead.
4:17
They are decks. We have a new set coming out. Here's what you
4:19
can look for, here's our new company. So this does not bother me
4:25
at all. I mean again, we have news that it is coming to
4:28
us by the end of May, and with May first being on Monday.
4:32
From this recording, this news to me timing. I want to see that
4:36
they are getting it out to any game store employees because frankly, the longer
4:41
that we sit here with it just in our hams as game found people or
4:46
individuals who went to KFC keyboard celebration, less individuals in the game stores know
4:54
about it, and it's longer for ope. So right now, yes,
4:57
I want my decks, but as Sheep has said, you can give me
5:00
all the decks. If I don't have anywhere to play them, it means
5:01
nothing. That's why we're talking so op that those are letters that are there.
5:11
They're four letter words right now. It's not a real four letter word,
5:16
but it is something that is sour for a number of individuals, and
5:19
so I think this is a great move that they're reaching out to gaming individuals,
5:25
store owners, store employees and saying, here, try this out,
5:28
check it out. Um. To be honest, it was not even on
5:31
the radar for all of my uh my listening ears. Um, there's quite
5:38
a bit of a radar for a lot of people. Unfortunately, the talk
5:41
of the town right now is the mouse, the mouse, the House of
5:46
Mouse. It's it's Lurkana, It's dar Can I get a Grogu card to
5:50
the first set? That's what I want to know. No, no,
5:54
do they say straight up Star Wars. I mean it has nothing's been released
5:58
in that manner yet. But but what we need is because people are like,
6:01
hey, lord, Kana is very very similar to KeyForge with this race,
6:06
we could take advantage of that and be able to connect. And I
6:11
think there's just a lot of excitement, new new game that's coming out.
6:15
You have Ravensburger, which is a pretty very very solid, well establishing company,
6:20
but people are not comparing it to key Forge. Key Forge is not
6:25
even an afterthought of an afterthought. So anytime, I'm fine seeing unchained decks
6:30
and our wo dex or Winds of Exchange decks, and hopefully it sparks a
6:33
few more people, and hopefully we can hear something new soon in regards to
6:40
Ope so that we can play those amazing decks, and we'll probably I don't
6:44
know, I don't want to say next week we'll be talking about it.
6:46
But Lord Kana has a pretty interesting op system that we're we're going to talk
6:53
about at a future date because right now, I mean, I guess we're
6:57
kind of behind. But does it really matter When new was so slow,
7:00
we did get new rules. Two of the biggest new rules I think all
7:04
of us wanted to talk about last week but didn't get the opportunity to talk
7:09
about it was the new discard mechanic and the scrap keyword from Grim Reminders.
7:16
So I'm not really sure where to go with it. Obviously, the discard
7:20
mechanic, there's gonna be a new PIP by your cards, it's gonna be
7:24
a purple card, so instead of drawing, you will be discarding a card.
7:30
UM. And then the scrap mechanics. I don't I'm a little confused
7:33
on the scrap mechanic, but probably we'll find out more once Grim Reminders comes
7:38
out, because the scrap mechanic is basically allowing you to use said card that
7:43
you discard, which I guess is probably be fur We got to walk by
7:46
here. Yeah, so what does scrap say? Well, I'm gonna first
7:50
go back for your discard bonus icon. That means that you're going to see
7:55
PIP similar to MM carrying through UM. This is popping up with kind of
8:01
that purple looks like honestly a purple icone like a card, but it has
8:05
a little arrow so signal. Yeah, but I mean that I can.
8:11
But the iconography is easy enough to understand. So I like this. I
8:15
like it's built in. UM. There's some hypothesizing going on that you know,
8:18
you could see it for our next set for Reminders. There's also some
8:24
hypothesis that maybe it shows up in some anomalies because we see cards early,
8:31
and there's even some other individuals who are going ahead and putting forward that you
8:33
could see it in our newest key forwarde adventure. So all three are definitely
8:43
Choda Hasris, great Keyscape, Christmas, this Christmas, ay, this this
8:48
winter holiday season, Yes, coming, and sign up for the game phone.
8:54
So joking his side, all three are options to be able to see
9:01
this new mechanic implemented in use, and I like it. I like simple
9:05
aspect, I like seeing a new icon, and I'm excited to be able
9:11
to see what it offers for play. And then your other one you're talking
9:15
about is scrap So scrap has a little bit more and it says after a
9:20
card with a scrap ability is discarded from a player's hand, the active player
9:24
resolve the cards scrap ability. Scrap abilities can resolve in the discard pile,
9:33
so that's an interesting little component there. If multiple cards with scrap abilities are
9:37
discarded simultaneously, they are resolved one at a time in the order of the
9:41
act of players choosing. If an ability discards a card from a zone other
9:46
than a player's hand, any scrap abilities on the card do not resolve.
9:52
It's up basic needs to be coming from hand. What do you guys think
9:54
about this? I think the combination of the two was super fun because like
9:58
you could obviously get per se like a discard icon on some cards and perhaps
10:05
two on one card, and then you can play it resolve the two discard
10:11
icons onto two off house cards that have scrap abilities, and then like you
10:18
get your full effect of the card you just played, you discard two off
10:20
hands to increase your efficiency, and then you get the scrap effect from them
10:24
too. So that's a very unique unseen play space, like a new like
10:31
basically with these two combined can new mechanics, they're making up a whole new
10:37
design space that the game never had before. Because we've all seen like discard
10:41
off house, We've seen discard archive, there's been we've seen discard steal from
10:46
the EU. I think this is a very new way to approach like the
10:52
discarding effects, which is net gain as far as like efficiency for people plus
10:58
a bone. And I will say Roger Shrubber had posted a number of cards
11:03
here that already will interact with this, so toxin mind bar, mindfire pe
11:09
or punctuated equilibrium, double doom, dendricks ave into subtle auto subtle chain subtle
11:13
mall and then sink or swim. Um. Frankly, only pe is what
11:18
is going to go ahead and hit all of your cards in hand at once,
11:22
And so I like that It's filling a new space. Honestly, I
11:26
hadn't seen it. It fits in really well. But I'm not worried about
11:31
other cards having a major impact on this new ability, So I'm excited to
11:35
see where it goes. Punk was the big one that first came to mind
11:39
for me, because if I punk and I gotta you know, I don't
11:41
want to say AMD full of scrap because I don't know how pleff you know
11:46
left Thurle the punks that that well, though I don't know how much they're
11:52
going to have scrap in the prevalent I don't want to say prevalent but whatever,
12:01
okay, word how often? How often I do? I love that
12:05
word prevalent? Whatever? Either way? Right, how much is scrap going
12:16
to be in the set? That that is a big because punk is a
12:18
thing that some top end decks have. Um, I am going to be
12:24
able to now trigger cards from my hand on my opponent's turn, which I
12:30
think is big, No, not assarily, Yeah, Yeah, I'm gonna
12:33
read. I'm gonna reread this again. Um, if an ability discards a
12:37
card from his own other than the player's hand, any scrap abilities on the
12:41
card do not resolve. Okay, so that doesn't change anything. But look
12:45
here. If multiple cards with scrap abilities are discarded simultaneously, they resolved one
12:48
at a time in the order of the active players choosing correct. So again,
12:52
that would be the person who played punk, which means that they don't
12:56
have active players making all decisions with these cards. Is it a may resolve?
13:03
They After cards scrapability is discarded from a player's hand, the active player
13:07
resolves the cards scrap ability. Ye, scrap abilities can be resolved for the
13:13
discard pile. Okay, so you have you have let's just say, let's
13:16
let's make this easy. Um, you have made me do just whatever.
13:22
You made me discard a card from my hand at random, right, Yeah,
13:26
it has the scrap you have made me to choose it. Right,
13:31
you get to choose it. But like, it's not just it just it's
13:33
still fires, it's not just it doesn't just fizzle. Yeah, we also
13:39
don't know what the scrap abilities are. It could be like gain an amber,
13:43
capture an amber onto a creature, like all of these are easy choices
13:46
that you can make for your opponent, right, Like you choose which amber,
13:50
which of the creatures your amber has to go on, right, Like,
13:52
that's what we're tugging. I don't think it could also see a mistake
13:58
to make a stroy destroy all creatures on board. Yeah, I mean it
14:03
could, you know what I mean, Like, we don't know. It's
14:07
very unknown. I mean that Scrap could become very powerful. Nobody knows.
14:13
I mean we we know that Grim Reminders, for the most part, was
14:18
designed by FG, and that FG has a hard time balancing things sometimes.
14:26
I mean because they wanted to scrap the game. No, I'm saying that
14:33
they sometimes too soon, too soon. I'm sometimes Pips like we thought Pip,
14:41
Like we knew Pips was going to be huge, but there was a
14:43
lot of other people, aren't you walk that didn't think pips were going to
14:46
play a big part in the game. I stand, I'm raising my hand.
14:52
I was completely wrong, But you weren't alone, was my thing.
14:56
I wasn't alone. But I will say I really don't like the vanilla creatures
15:03
in mm UM. They do bring a lot of additional value though with those
15:09
pips, So I was wrong. But but scrap could be like super powerful
15:13
like scrap gain three ember, you know what I mean? Like we don't
15:18
know and this is just me, but um, I mean, I'm I
15:24
am still resolving cards from my hand on your turn, which I mean even
15:31
if it is gain an umber, so I go from five to six,
15:35
so I go from not forging a key to forging a key. It could
15:39
play a big role. I'm just saying there's something. I think it's a
15:41
little early to know what is happening. There's just going to be a new
15:45
ability. You don't like theory crafting at all, do you? We theory
15:50
craft a lot because there'sn't much else to do. They craft a lot.
15:56
I love talking shit, that's the best. I just don't know if it's
16:00
going to be as big of a deal as you think it is. It
16:03
might be on your side already because there are creatures. Yeah, like that's
16:10
that's already a thing as long as they're intelligently designing, because like they have
16:15
full rains on what they decide to do. No matter how much she did,
16:19
Like this is true, they can redo everything if they wanted to.
16:23
Um, I'm just saying this can throw some crazy wackiness into the game that
16:29
could be quite exciting. I mean, I'm all for the wackiness. I
16:33
think things would be exciting that way, But I also don't think they're gonna
16:36
go and do some like really like I think something that would be bad on
16:41
a scrap card would be like an inspiration type effect like ready and user creature
16:47
Like that would be super stupid, right, but because then if your opponent
16:52
discards it, they would didn't have to choose a creature on the other side
16:56
of the boards already, and use like that gets to the point where there's
17:02
going to be a lot of overlapping like rules entanglements that are going to happen
17:06
because of that, and that would be a really bad idea, right,
17:11
So as long as they stay away from like that level of complexity on scrap,
17:15
I think we're fine. Like I expect to see gaining and like I
17:18
expect to see like your most basic types of like card interactions on scrap and
17:23
nothing more, because like they don't want it to be better than playing the
17:27
card, right scrap like an artifact, there goes your auto encoder. I
17:33
don't know, I'm just I'm having fun with Yeah, But like if your
17:36
opponent did that to you, they would get to pick and then they would
17:38
choose your artifact. Um, Like that's what we're talking about. Like that's,
17:45
well, it's my card. So I don't think, you know,
17:48
if you don't get to make decisions on their turn, So like this is
17:51
true, I don't get to make a decision on a turn. But I'm
17:52
assuming auto quoder is the only in the case it's the only artifact, but
17:57
that that could be the only effect on either side. I don't know,
18:03
Like I said, just spitballing having some fun with it. I like the
18:07
level of wackiness that could to put into it. Um and we'll see if
18:11
it actually does or not. But like to hammer that hom like I think
18:17
destroy the artifact would actually be a fine scrap effect. I don't think they're
18:22
gonna get that complicated, to be honest, but I still think that's fine.
18:26
Like that is a very quick maneuverable decision, and you pick one,
18:30
it's gone, doesn't matter. Sometimes it's going to be bad for the person
18:34
who had the scrap card. Sometimes it'll be good for them, depending on
18:37
who has artifacts and play or what they are. I mean, because clearly
18:41
it's designed to do some house cheating. Right, You're going to play a
18:42
card that has that has a has a discard icon and you're going to discard
18:48
it from your hand. That's an off house hopefully that allows you to do
18:53
a thing right. But it sounds like the goal that the wackiness can pursue
18:59
because punk is a real thing and it is very prevalent, and I don't
19:03
maybe also see some creatures that have like read discarded card like we used to
19:07
like, um, like all the bots, yeah, the bots, yeah,
19:11
like all of those Like that's that would be very much in line with
19:15
scrap, like like we we don't know what we're gonna see, so like
19:18
that would all be very cool as long as they don't get like really stupid
19:22
with the scrap effects to create odd interactions when you're opponents. I hope they
19:27
don't. I hope very rare occasionally stuff. I really hope we're stupid,
19:34
you know, you know me. The crazier the bat, the crazier the
19:40
better. But um, also new rules, Um we're gonna go through do
19:47
you want to go through versatility and treachery first? Because those are kind of
19:49
our new keywords. So walk bought all right, let's start. You want
19:56
versatile, so versatile. If a card has the versatile keyword, it can
20:00
be used as if it belonged to the active house. Which we've seen this
20:04
before. There are lots of let's say this, you know this creature belongs
20:07
to any house. This is just a save text, right, because there's
20:11
like like this is what Mantle from set one does? Um? Mac the
20:15
knife from set one? Well, but they had it, they had it.
20:19
It saves yes, it saves tex Um. It also allows because some
20:25
of those if I'm correct, Mac has omniability. Now I gotta go check.
20:30
I believe, but like, but that limits I guess what it can
20:33
do. So having versatile just has an action an action because he is a
20:41
versatile creature basic correct, But I'm saying you could, like with versatile now
20:45
here, if it had replaced the term or the information for Mac, it
20:49
would allow you to reap instead of just choosing his action. So it brings
20:53
a little bit more canaps Mac can reap if you choose again, Mac is
21:00
exactly the wording you just it is, just now they have a keyword instead
21:04
of writing it all out and then treachery is do do Okay, So treachery
21:14
when a card No, I get when a card has the treachery keyword it
21:17
enters play under the control of your opponents. So related topics control and ownership
21:21
enters play. So we've the keyword for scally and the new one in woe,
21:27
the one that like you play a creature from their hand, that they
21:30
get the card you're playing. I don't know his name. It's a it's
21:33
an equedon um the one is that the one action? No, no,
21:41
it's a creature. It's a two power creature. Yeah, an they get
21:45
the creature. You look at their hand, you play creature from their hand?
21:48
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I can't remember what it does.
21:52
I do not know that it's an equedon creature. So it's probably a
21:55
stupid name. So we've talked with him, we've talked about him before.
21:59
Yeah, he's pretty good. Yeah, we like him. Um, and
22:03
he also is versatile, or he would be. It was there not also
22:08
a maybe I'm wrong on this. I thought they made a keyword for enters
22:14
play ready too, they don't have a keyword word that. I thought they'd
22:21
made a keyword. We we don't have, um, what is it rage
22:23
or whatever? Yet you weren't talking about Talent Scout in Equedin. We were
22:33
talking about Yes, okay, so Talent Scout two power get Rookie in creature
22:38
with an amber PIP, Talent Scout enter maybe used as if it belonged to
22:44
the active house, So that's what you're talking about. As versatile play,
22:48
look at your opponent's hand and play a creature from it as if it were
22:52
yours. Your opponent takes control of Talent Scout Yep, they get a versatile
23:00
creature. Yeah, you get an amber and get to steal one of their
23:03
creatures. So overall pretty good card. But yeah, that is in the
23:07
future. We won't see all that text. We'll see versatile yep, which
23:14
I guess they But I wonder they must have recently done that though, because
23:19
like we're also we would have seen it in the woecard Talent scope. So
23:23
I guess this is something more to be something to be on the lookout for
23:27
grim reminders, just to see if we see more versatile creatures. Yeah,
23:30
I think it clears it up for terminology because all those keywords are something that
23:36
you can look at in the back of the rule book, so instead of
23:38
it just being on a card trying to figure it out. I like that
23:41
it's clearing it up. And I pulled up Mac the Knife because apparently my
23:45
brain is networking. Shadows three power Elf thief creature with elusive You may use
23:49
Mac the Knife as if it belonged to the active house, which would be
23:52
your versatile action. Deal one to a creature if this damage destroys that creature,
23:57
Gain one yeah, secret needle yes. Um. But because it says
24:03
you may use it as if it belongs you can have the action or the
24:04
reap or the right. But my yeah, my question was where we're going
24:10
to see more creatures like us now that they've stamped it with a keyword,
24:14
which he had already brought up, because I mean I would like more enter
24:18
play ready creatures. That'd be great. Um. I don't know what they
24:21
do for the game, but I don't like Karam as much as about the
24:26
creatures. But like I was thinking about this the other day, like because
24:30
I was talking about someone about the overall utility of artifacts as far as like
24:33
which ones are good, which ones are bad, and a lot of it's
24:36
because like they come and exhausted, Like I think I would have loved it
24:41
so much more had just all artifacts them been ready like and you're able to
24:45
use the yeah, like, there would have been a lot easier like valuation
24:49
of them because like a lot of these artifacts just don't do anything if you
24:53
get them in the bottom of the cycle, and some of them are like
24:56
theoretically really good ones that just don't do anything lable. I think that is
25:00
something I would have loved to have seen artifacts coming ready in Larkana. Shut
25:07
up, well look at that, Um, I guess I'm going to look
25:14
no, um, I mean back of the day, that would have been
25:19
horrible. Uh could you imagine La loops if you could also then play play
25:25
your nep seed and then use your depth. Still that's not the same turn
25:30
because you're not playing LA on your unteam turn. Well well, but hold
25:36
on, you forgot I was you could phase shift to play a nep seed
25:38
and then it came in ready and then you can pop it right away.
25:41
It's still a pretty big loss of value overall, the face shifting, which
25:45
is your draw power. Like, so I'm face shifting drawing a card pop,
25:49
I guess. But still it was a possibility overall, though, Like
25:55
I think there like that is an area, which I like where we started
25:59
to see one in the in the in low there's a I think it's an
26:03
m K two generator or whatever. It's an artifact that just comes in ready,
26:07
like ye, like if they just had more of those in general moving
26:11
forward, Like I think that whole design space of artifacts being a little bit
26:15
better than they are um would be good. Like the stuff like Library of
26:19
Babbel card sucks, but if it came in ready, it would suck a
26:23
little bit less because at least it replaced itself in the draw at that moment
26:27
in time, like like there's a lot of artifacts like that too, like
26:30
even like nothing's gonna redeem Soul Fiddle, but it would be a little less
26:34
hella bad if it had come in ready, or like the no, both
26:41
of those are horrible. They should not eat and they are, but they
26:44
still like even like even the retched doll almost as bad as Soul, Like
26:48
all of these drastically get better in value if they just come in ready because
26:52
just the number of turns you play a house, Like on average you play
26:56
a house three to five times a game, yep, So like if you're
27:02
not getting the use out of it the turn you play it like the odds
27:04
that you see it. If it's latent, cycle actually get used as berries.
27:08
Yeah. And for those who were curious, MK two generator Mars token
27:14
sorry Mars artifact. That is an item in woe and it says MK two
27:18
generator enters play ready action make a token creature. So no, I agree
27:23
with you. I like that aspect. What about the scully Caper aspect?
27:27
Do you guys like seeing scully Caper which I can go ahead and read two
27:33
power l thief creature in shadows. I don't really care about the skirmish.
27:37
It is interesting here, but scully Caper Enters play under your opponent's control and
27:41
can be used if it belongs to any house. At the end of your
27:45
turn, destroy one of scully Caper's neighbors. I'm more looking at that destroying
27:49
neighbors. Do you guys like that or no? I thought it was a
27:53
fun card. I did help me get some sealed play a long time ago.
27:59
Overall, Yeah, I think it's a fine card. Um. The
28:02
only issue I have with cards like that is like they get shuffled in your
28:06
opponent's deck at the end of the game. Happens all the time. They
28:08
happens with the quadric quarters, like like that's I love the like I love
28:15
quadric quarter, I love Scoli paper, like I like all those cards,
28:18
but like my only knock on them is a very like meta knock, as
28:23
in like in reality, that's how you lose cards. Like it's it's not
28:29
that you actually like bumble them out of your case or whatever. It is
28:36
true story. If you borrow a deck and you attach that quadricorder or an
28:41
upgrade on your opponent who has sleeves that are identical to you, it becomes
28:45
very, very difficult. And here's your lesson of the day. Boys and
28:48
girls, count your number of cards when you're done. Yep, every time.
28:52
I do, because they can disappear pretty quickly, and then people have
28:59
heart attacks when you go to return that deck and it doesn't have the right
29:03
amount of cards, especially if it's like, you know, five hundred.
29:07
Just I'm just thrown out there. I don't know where that would have come
29:10
from, but it's a labs and learned. I think I saw it at
29:15
you know, vault or KFC or something something, so yeah, I mean,
29:19
I'm just saying it happens. Don't get snack quested there was signs made
29:26
about it, just you know, count your stuff, get your cards back?
29:32
Um, all right, what do we got nexts Okay, new band
29:34
and a restricted list? Um? Again, I don't think there was any
29:40
real surprises here, um cards that were not on this list before Control the
29:47
Week. Wasn't that a surprise about an omission to it? Not in like
29:52
any of the Okay, because I think I have an omission too, so
29:55
I want to hear this. But well, okay, Solt Scrambler Storm and
30:00
Stealth mom Mode Scrambler Storm in Control of the Week, we're all added.
30:07
I also have an omission that I was like, huh, surprised not to
30:11
see that there, And lateral shift was removed. Honestly, I wasn't seeing
30:15
lateral shift as a major issue. Wasn't seeing a ton of play that anomalies
30:22
are so dang rare. I don't think they needed to be on here.
30:26
But for whatever reason, ghost form is there. I still don't understand why
30:30
it's there. I could carry double form impetitively. Ever, like well,
30:37
people were worried about it with at I Candily, I I don't know you
30:42
could still have Eddie in ghost form, because you could have ghost Form in
30:47
five eddies, Like that's still low. Gay, Yeah, I don't feel
30:49
like I don't like if I looked at the list and if I was like,
30:52
okay, restricted, Like things only matter in conduction with other researcher things.
30:59
So that's the system they made. Yes, Like are you looking for
31:02
ghost for Morpheus because that's the only thing I see in here, Like,
31:07
oh no, you don't have ghost form with your Stealth mos. Surely that
31:10
wasn't it Ghost Forward the United Action because those are the other worlds Collide cards
31:15
we're talking about. Ghost Form being on this list doesn't do anything, it
31:18
doesn't mean anything. Yeah, and I will not be there, I will
31:25
say, I mean I understand what the restricted list is set up for.
31:32
I think that it is confusing to people who are not consistently playing, because
31:37
like Stealth, most Grambler, Storm, and Control the Week, you can
31:40
have them in your deck and I can have as many Control the Week as
31:44
I want, but I can't have anything else. Again, this makes sense
31:48
to me, but there are but when people see any of these it is
31:52
confusing to some newer players. So I think that we want to be a
31:56
little bit clear. Wookie, what did you think was missing? From this
32:00
list, I want to hear yours first. Um, I think that we're
32:05
all on the same page, and I think I think seeing stealth mode,
32:07
Scrambler Storm, Control the Week like that actually was part of the limit for
32:14
Martians generosity and key abduction. We have MG on there, but frankly no
32:20
battle fleet. Well, but that's the whole point. Battlefleet key abduction doesn't
32:23
matter if these are here, because if if you're limiting like the ability to
32:28
stop stuff like battlefleet, the battlefleet becomes less of a big deal what I
32:31
see now, Like like, so, there are two decks that did really
32:35
well at KFC. They came in third and fourth. I think both had
32:37
double MG and key abduction. In the primary way they were stopped was like
32:44
other control like Control the Week and Scrambler Storm. In this case, those
32:49
are now restricted. So that means like those two techs just concreased in alliance
32:53
value like twofold, like by a lot. So my omission that I was
32:59
surprised that is that we didn't see MG limits a one that I agree with,
33:05
But I also so I'm really tore on MG and key abduction UM by
33:10
putting them both on the list. The problem is key abduction by itself doesn't
33:14
do anything like it's not the issue, but the combination of both of them.
33:19
There's nothing to really stop them outside of what was now added to the
33:22
list stealth mode, Scrambler, storm and control the week like yeah, correct,
33:30
and so I can be winning. I can have two keys and seventy
33:34
member you have no way to stop and you just go ahead and can go
33:37
off with MG into key abduction like gg won. And that's that's. I
33:46
feel like they're trying to add to this list so that the game's become more
33:52
interesting, more fun, and I feel that this goes against that. I
33:57
really do. I don't. I don't find it fun to go ahead and
33:59
lose to Hey, great job, you went ahead and we're able to key
34:02
abduct me and pull multiple keys. Um, maybe no, you're fight.
34:09
I was actually a little surprised at that too that MG wasn't limited to one.
34:15
But battle Fleet not even being on the list kind of surprised me because
34:17
battle fleets very similar. You know, it takes a little more set up,
34:21
but I mean there's still way less pods and have there have the battle
34:27
fleets, I mean, but it doesn't seem like they're taking I don't know.
34:31
Maybe that doesn't seem like they're taking pods into consideration here, that's true.
34:37
Yeah, I don't know. I don't think ghost from actually doing anything,
34:42
just like I don't think science morpheus. I mean, if ghosts,
34:45
if ghosts forms on here, why take off lateral shift? I don't have
34:53
an answer for you. I think those two things being on this list effect.
34:59
Just just leave lateral shift. I mean again, I don't know how
35:01
many decks exist with multiple ghost forms or multiple lateral shifts. Um. I
35:07
can't imagine it's many, and I can't imagine it matters too much. But
35:10
no, even to find how many decks have two anomalies in them, um,
35:15
then you'd have to have a right it is. Um, well,
35:24
all right, lateral shift and we'll go two plus and we'll just find out
35:29
how many decks exist one. So at least on decks a key Forge,
35:37
there's one deck that contains two lateral shifts, the Peanut Galla gallery. That
35:43
is. JM is commenting that he saw somewhere people saying that the restricted list
35:47
is punishing Coda, which is true. Now, which is the set that
35:52
lapsed players have the most decks from. I mean that's just true period,
35:55
right, Like Code sold more decks than every other set by a lot.
36:00
I'm not going to go for the numbers. I'm sure GM actually has the
36:02
numbers, but like it is not even close when you talk about number of
36:07
sales from CODA to any other set, and that is the set that is
36:12
to punish the most an Alliance. I'm not sure if that was intentional.
36:17
I don't know what all went in the process of finding the Alliance restricted list.
36:23
Is that like a good chunk of the list doesn't mean anything. Well,
36:28
a chunk of the list does mean CODA is weaker than it ever was.
36:31
And going ahead and looking at if you type into just d okay both
36:36
lateral shift and ghost form in the same deck, you have six of those
36:40
six. There are only two of those decks that have both lateral shift and
36:45
ghost form in the same pod to be able to take, and both of
36:51
those decks are not great. We have a sixty five SAS here which is
36:55
guess what world's clybe brob nar and the other one falls in untamed but it's
37:02
a forty eight SAS deck. Yeah, I just looked up double ghost form.
37:07
There are five decks that contain double ghost Form, but like, that's
37:12
still not what you do. Like it only matters in conjunction with the other
37:15
cards on the restricted list. You'd be looking for ghost Form plus Morpheus or
37:21
ghost Form plus stealth Mode. It's small united action and like, none of
37:27
the things I just named are win cons that I am even remotely aware of
37:30
being a thing that I would care about to tack against Alliance hands. I
37:35
don't know where any of these four things came from other than stealth mode.
37:40
Stealth mode makes sense, But then again, based on what I just said,
37:44
I could argue stealth Mode bid on here doesn't do anything because there's not
37:49
another card from the World's Collide competitive pool that I am getting penalized by not
37:57
played. Like if I saw Stealth Mode plus in Earnest, then you've affected
38:00
a lot of potential decks. In World's Clide self Mode plus Eddie, you've
38:06
affected something. Stealth Mode plus any of these cards doesn't matter at all,
38:13
Right, Like that's how this list works, Yes, because it's within So
38:16
if you look at the only set that was truly affected, that's what got
38:21
control the week Library Access, Restaurant, Guntists, and Scrambler Storm and Time
38:27
Traveler that actually matter. Out of however, many's on this list all in
38:35
the same set set one. Maybe maybe it's because I don't truly care about
38:42
Alliance. I mean, I'm not highly invested in there. I think that
38:45
it's fun to be able to theory craft and then put together some decks.
38:51
Um. I just I don't know what we're really looking at for better in
38:59
the game play right now? What is Alliances where it usually is at Martian
39:07
Generosity Chananigan's right, I mean that's still where it's at most of the time.
39:14
So so my issue with Martian Generosity key abduction or battle Fleet key abduction
39:17
is that you need to time it just right for your stealth modes, for
39:23
your Scrambler's arms, for your control the week to be able to hit.
39:25
It's not even like here's an artifact that just says you can't go ahead and
39:30
play you'r you can't play your actions. Well, you can't have those in
39:35
the same deck anymore. So I understand, but I'm saying if I had
39:38
any of those, like, that's the problem. If if I'm playing,
39:42
I can play stealth mode, but if it's not on the right turn when
39:44
you're set to go ahead and go off with your Martian generosity key abduction.
39:47
If that's not for the final key, it's not the end of the world.
39:52
I just played on the next turn, right, and yes I can
39:54
go ahead and keep cycling. But I don't know. I just I didn't
40:00
see that is where this where the restricted list is set up and what it's
40:06
trying to do. I mean, right now, the entire restricted list is
40:08
set up to tell people not to not play Coda. Like that's what it
40:14
is. I guess. I guess the big question is the restricted list is
40:16
set up to make what not broken decks. That's that's the whole idea,
40:22
right I I mean I think it is designed to move away from negative play
40:29
experiences, right Like, I don't think it does that. I think we're
40:35
still stuck in the same area we were before. The Morpheus, Restaurant Guntist
40:38
those came together, right because there was but like actually like that had to
40:44
be because of a specific pod, because like people were talking about it immediately
40:47
when they heard about Alliance, because like there's a x amount of restaurant guntast
40:53
decks and there's plenty of decks that have double Morpheus, so like you can
40:59
lock them out of game automatic, like it's just gonna happen. Um,
41:06
So that's how that came and I understand that. But after that, like
41:09
a lot of this stuff is, I don't know how it came to be.
41:14
I just don't have any answer. I just don't know enough A dark
41:20
number volves, Okay, I guess I get UM didn't see a lot of
41:23
that at KFC ghost for him. Don't understand library access was neutered enough.
41:29
I don't know if they had found something, found a way to bust I
41:32
mean LA United Action, I mean LA originally being on there is one I
41:38
agreed with because like it is the mole in Alliance, because like you can
41:44
just find ways to make it break even with it not repeatable. Yeah,
41:51
you need it, you need it coming in as a legacy card. I
41:53
have an l A United Action deck that's in I have a pod that's there
42:00
in um DT, and I can pull it off very very very very consistently.
42:07
I'm saying that out of ten games, I'm pulling it off easily nine
42:10
games, not a problem at all. And when it goes there's nothing to
42:15
stop me. I just keep playing and playing and playing and playing, and
42:16
it does have the key cheat with key frog. That's there as ways to
42:21
be able to get rid of it. It's not a fun experience. So
42:24
if that's what they're going for, I am all for it. As I'm
42:29
looking at this, did library card also get removed? No, it's not
42:34
on here. Was that on the indition? It was never on there?
42:36
I don't believe. So, okay, I was trying to go through.
42:42
No, I agree. I just for me looking at this restricted list,
42:46
I need to be able to see MG key abduction or like the combination.
42:52
I don't know how with the restricted list set up that we're listening its battle
42:57
Fleet key abduction or Martian Generosity key abduction. But when we multiples in a
43:00
deck, I don't know. It just isn't fun to play against um if
43:07
you look. The other thing that I saw show up was auto en quod.
43:09
Auto enquoder with MM and your pips is another way to be able to
43:13
go hide and be able to psych uses. Again, it's like understanding the
43:17
list though, like putting an auto and quoder on here doesn't do anything.
43:22
No, it doesn't, And that's the problem. Nothing. Yeah, that
43:25
is the exact problem. So yeah, I mean, what do you what
43:30
do you pair auto enquod auto quod and pipsis in your well even that like
43:36
you're discarding cards to get the value, like it doesn't matter, Like there
43:38
is nothing to pair, Like it's I don't even know what you would put
43:44
on this list that would actually, like measurably affect MM. They put the
43:47
DAV there because yes, you could actually create decks with three davs and yeah
43:51
that's a problem. Um so yeah, dav had to be there, so
43:55
they did it. That's the one thing I knew if they could do for
43:58
MM. It's the right, like, I mean about the only thing that
44:04
would like affect am in too, Like a larger degree would be able to
44:07
put like I don't know a certain number of invernesses on here, which would
44:13
affect World's Clyde two Like that would be about it. I guess all you're
44:17
allowed to play is World Clyde Brobner, but it could be our games.
44:29
Yeah, you have one house in your deck is a long of this World
44:31
Clyde Brobner. It's just the longest game you've ever played. I guess not.
44:37
I guess it's just who has marked creatures and who's reaping faster, he'll
44:40
just still just lose. I mean, I will say, Sheep is like
44:45
screaming in my ear in the background, saying, you've talked way too much
44:50
about this restricted list and a format that probably probably they were like when when
44:57
when Arthur put up his poles, like twelve percent, it's voted for Alliance,
45:00
So twelve percent of our five thousand people want to play this. Well,
45:05
I guess the question is how do we make Alliance more balanced but yet
45:08
quick and fast? Because I think Alliance is designed and I know Jam said
45:14
it was designed to bring back old players. Is it like, oh,
45:17
you can build decks now? Kind of like I don't know if who that
45:22
brings back. I think the idea was to take decks that people had.
45:25
And because me and Sheep are having the talk the other day that literally you
45:30
buy a box of key Forge. So if I go buy a box of
45:32
Magic, or I go buy a box of Pokemon and Yugio. Even if
45:36
I get nothing for what I'm I'm personally looking for, I've probably gotten cards
45:40
that I'm able to swap out. I'm, you know, trade with people.
45:45
I'm I can go sell those cards to get the cards I need.
45:49
There's still a lot of things I can do with the cards in that box,
45:52
but with key Forge. When I go buy a box, how many
45:54
of those decks are going to be competitive? How many of those decks am
45:58
I going to be able to take to a Vault tour and do decent in
46:02
maybe make a top eight? And the number we both came to was zero.
46:07
The box of twelve. Yeah, like a box of twelve, you
46:10
you have a very slim chance out of a box of twelve of being able
46:15
to be like, oh, I can take maybe you can take it to
46:17
your local. You can take it to your local. You have a high
46:22
probability of ten one deck you can take to your local. That's fun,
46:27
and I should say that compas say that Jr. But is that true anymore?
46:30
Think about who's at your local. It's these five thousand players remaining from
46:36
the fifty thousand that we had that all have six hundred decks. So so
46:40
that's telling me you're going to open a box of twelve, go to the
46:43
local of that and play with the three people that has five hundred decks and
46:46
smoke them or like win out of one box. The problem is is that
46:53
our player pool is dwindling. It is very it's very very tight. Yeah
46:59
it is, and all on the show for crying out loud. Besides John,
47:06
that's our player pool right now in Wisconsin. Now, I don't know
47:08
what it is North now. The hope is one day we will have more
47:13
players. But like right now, I actually disagree with this even entirely.
47:15
Like I used to be in that field because we used to have like eight
47:20
to twelve every week and occasion are other people I didn't know, and like,
47:23
you know, there's this variety. I didn't have the decks I had,
47:25
like all that, Like all that was true back in the day,
47:28
Like none of that is true now. Like if you see a person in
47:30
keyboards, most likely they're the grinder, just like five of us, and
47:36
they're going to have three to a hundred to one thousand decks. And if
47:39
I open a box of twelve, I am in pool one, the best
47:44
one out of that box. Sit down at the table, I'm probably gonna
47:46
get crushed. Yeah, well, but that's a real issue as we try
47:52
and get back to OP that's another trying to build. Yeah, if we're
47:55
trying to build our player pool and it is a problem, and is it
48:00
is something if you guys look at our little internal if you look at the
48:06
sheet of of ideas I had for for future shows, is key Forge competitively
48:12
anemic? And we'll go through that another day. Um, right now going
48:16
through more rules changes. I don't know why you put this on there,
48:20
jarre choosing a house must now announce the house. Yeah, it specifically what
48:24
we had to, but technically you could also. I've seen this at many
48:29
of all tours. I play my first card, and my first card actually
48:32
announces what I'm playing. Now, before you were supposed to announce you were
48:37
you were supposed to. You were supposed to, but here now you must
48:44
announce your house. Yep. Was that not in the rules before or was
48:50
it just suggested? I don't know if it had the words must there,
48:52
but it was there. I just hear a lot of judge calls in my
48:55
head. Already didn't tell me he was placed later, Please eliminate my players
49:00
so I get a win. Um, the next one I do. The
49:05
next one I think is actually a really big impact. So, and that
49:10
is there's no need to memorize deck list. You're making it larger. It's
49:15
creeping me out. You said it's huge. It is huge like it is
49:21
because in the past we had two minutes to look at our deck our opponent's
49:23
deck list, and which I oddly you still do, like you still get
49:30
you still get the two minutes, um, but now you can go ahead
49:34
and ask them for their discard pilot anytime. We've always been able to do
49:37
that. And hey, I just want to see your our kind card and
49:43
it must be it must be visible at all times, which does kind of
49:45
go hand in hand that all matches are forty five minutes. That's something that
49:50
they announced the KFC, which I think stuck. I didn't look forward to
49:53
the rule book, but I believe it stuck. Um, So you do
49:57
have more time. I am still worried though, because, like I love
50:01
them, the highn graph is like slow play to the top, notch um.
50:07
So like you didn't you didn't even like you're throwing our group of players.
50:15
You're not even throwing me under the bus anymore. Now we're picking on
50:19
others. Like I've seen you play in real life. You don't play that
50:21
slow relife. You just play that slow online. So I don't know what
50:23
you've got on your second screen going on I don't want to know. Can
50:30
you play in a very very small laptop? So okay, so it's all
50:36
tabby and all the time. Got it? Um Yeah? But like like
50:39
if I'm at a main event where people are nervous, like even the Drazz
50:45
X ray final in Kansas City, like they were going really slow, and
50:47
like there's reasons for that, like they don't want to miss triggers, they
50:51
want to play their lines. Okay, I do all of that. I'm
50:53
playing as best I can, and I'm I'm slowing down my pace. Now
50:59
I'm going to had this like, oh I wanna go through their discard because
51:04
I can do that. We'll say I can. I've thumbed through their entire
51:06
discard. I'm doing counting for whatever I'm counting for. Then I look at
51:09
their deck list and I'm like, oh wait, I put the list back.
51:14
Can I see your discard again? Like that shit is going to happen
51:17
guarantee yea hundred percent, And you know where it's gonna happen. It's gonna
51:22
happen in top eights. It's not gonna happen. It's going to happen.
51:27
It's gonna happen every day round it's gonna have three four or five, six,
51:30
seven, it's gonna happen. So it's gonna it's gonna push games to
51:34
time, and frankly, we're gonna go ahead and see people frustrated over it
51:38
because because at this point they have the ability to do it, there isn't
51:45
really a penalty for it unless it's being consistently done. And at the end
51:47
of the game, which is when you expect wait, pause, pause,
51:51
pause. You just said there wouldn't be a penalty for it unless it's consistently
51:57
done. Is that true. Well, now think about that. Well,
52:02
I'm allowed to do these two things for the rules that correct, you can't.
52:08
Why could I not consistently do it through the whole game? Well,
52:13
there is there is a ruling now for intent well not really just I mean
52:16
you can get delivered a warning for intentional slow play. Okay, I agree
52:23
with what you're saying, but what I just described her the rules is not
52:28
intentional slow play. I understanding what the rule book says, I can do
52:32
every turn. Drazz and x Ray, even at that final table in Kansas
52:38
City, they were talked to in regards to let's keep it going, let's
52:45
keep this pace. Yeah, I agree with that they were talked to because
52:49
I was there, But I don't know why I agree. I agree with
52:52
it. I thought that they were playing within their rights. I yes,
52:59
I feel like both of them were doing exactly what they should be doing at
53:01
that moment the whole game. And was it a little slow? Yes?
53:07
Was it a slow inside of the rules if you really time the seconds,
53:10
No, it was. It was fine. It just becomes more aware of
53:15
how slow it is because you're all staring at them. That is the only
53:17
reason it felt that way. So yeah, I think games will go to
53:22
time because of this, and we're just gonna have to wait to see how
53:27
whoever is running the event reacts to that because people are going to get upset
53:30
about this, and people have a point in time. Well again first when
53:36
first we have to have organized playback. But people have a very different threshold
53:40
for this. I mean, you want to send people on tilt. How
53:44
the speed of play is already something that throws many people. One I could
53:49
tell you like eight names of people that are very good at this game right
53:52
now. If you did what I just said, even half of your turns,
53:57
you're going to tilt them and you might win. Just go to that
54:00
like like every other turn, like, oh, can I see your discard
54:04
pile? Can I see your decklist? Can I see your discard pile?
54:06
Again? Okay, I'll play my turn now, like they will till hard
54:08
fast and you're gonna win. But like, I'm not going to do that.
54:13
I don't like I can actually memorize the decklist, like I'll do that
54:15
and I'll play my game, but like people are going to start losing their
54:20
crap people start doing that. I think the decklist being open allows for less
54:27
in straight memorization. I do think it opens up some motion innigans that can
54:31
happen, and I do think that people are going to take advantage of it
54:34
near the end of decks because you now know exactly what can be left in
54:39
someone's hand, you know the cards that are there. Yeah, yes,
54:45
yeah, I do agree that that's it's probably going to be a problem.
54:50
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some more tournament rules addressed
54:57
in the future after that happens a couple of times. I don't know,
55:00
like I think, I mean, I know why it's added, and I
55:04
actually agree wholeheartedly why the decklist review thing was added because like, I don't
55:10
think they want memorization inside a two minute window of thirty six cards to be
55:15
a barrier of entry to a competitive game. It's not to any others.
55:21
Like, that's just not a thing. Well, it's a lot different than
55:23
every other card game because you're you're talking about this card game. You have
55:27
thirty six cards, right, it could be any thirty six. You know,
55:30
there's there's a majority. We've already talked about that. Like you see
55:35
more of our card board than any other game because the other games you don't
55:38
see the niffle every right, you're because nobody's nobody's playing that niffily ever ever
55:43
ever, because it's a going to see that. Right. So when you
55:46
go to Magic and you're playing is it Drakes, which is just a deck
55:52
off the top of my head, you more or less, like you even
55:55
said in Flesh and Blood, you're like, oh, you're playing that with
55:58
that setup. I already know it's in your deck. Yeah. You look
56:00
at their hero, you look at their equipment if they have these cards,
56:04
like they have these cards. If they don't, you already won anyways,
56:07
right, So I mean, and a lot of games are like that.
56:09
Like in Pokemon, if you're playing you know, Mew Mew two, you
56:14
already know what's in their deck. You already know what their end game is
56:16
and how either you're going to stop it or you're not. Same thing with
56:20
Magic there's you know, six or seven competitive decks. You know, if
56:23
they sit down and they come out blue black right away, you're like,
56:27
oh, okay, you're playing demere such and such. You know, like
56:30
you just kind of know so a little bit different than Key Forage because you're
56:34
seeing them much more, you know, because there are dead cards in your
56:37
deck most of the time. Yeah, so here here's my question. I'm
56:40
fine with memories like decks being open. This should be, in my opinion,
56:45
store level. This should be more casual, Like when we get to
56:49
Vault Tour, is this still something that is needed? That's where like I
56:55
think the answer is ultimately yes, I don't know how to police it.
56:59
I don't have a suggestion for them, but I know it's going to be
57:00
a problem. But like, this isn't a hurdle that other competitive games have
57:07
to play with. So like this is my role now at the school I
57:10
work at, Like I literally work with people with disabilities like students every day,
57:15
Like that is my job. That's my entire job. So like if
57:20
we don't have something like this there, that does eliminate which is a growing
57:24
percentage of our population at least in the States. I don't know about anywhere
57:29
else. So like where there is no like effective way some of like a
57:37
significant amount of people are going to ever get good at memorizing, like that
57:40
is not something that they're going to be able to do. So like removing
57:45
that hurdle does allow more people to play competitively at a higher level. Like
57:51
I do really appreciate that part of this change. I have no fricking clue
57:55
what GG is going to do about what I just described. Well, and
58:01
the next thing, because the top game, so the number one table,
58:05
after everything all of a SUD has done, is going to have no time
58:08
limit. Now, I will say, a whole bunch of people are up
58:15
in arms and they're so worried about heart as someone who has heart, Like
58:21
hold on, wait, wait, wait, let's walk this back one second.
58:22
When you say a whole bunch of people, is this like Wilkie with
58:25
his discord server. No, No, this like a real whole bunch of
58:30
people. I would not. I mean again, our statistical population is very
58:35
very small, but I have heard it from multiple individuals. It has been
58:39
brought up elsewhere as well in our community, so it's been more than just
58:45
our discord that there people are worried about Heart. And my really big question
58:50
is very very simple. How many Heart decks have made our top table?
58:52
This is not the concern. Let me give my zero hands account this zero
58:59
zero zero before Reclaim by Nature became a thing, like, it's like zero
59:05
even make zero since that have made top anything anywhere, even like online,
59:09
unless it's like a niche week you're playing some sas cap crap thing like,
59:15
that's the only time you ever see Heart these days, because Reclaim by Nature
59:21
just auto beats them, and it's a very common card in a very great
59:25
set. So there are some very very good Heart decks. But the end
59:32
result is, in order to make that top table, you have to win
59:38
playing a standard game where it goes to time and all of the other matches.
59:45
If you make it in a vault tour, you have to then on
59:47
day two play your best of one playing a standard fair game going ahead and
59:53
getting there, which tells me that if you can do that heart has to
59:58
have the win con that's there. That means they can have the key cheats,
1:00:00
they have a way to be able to pull that win. So this
1:00:04
is a little bit. This is not This is not something that I am
1:00:07
worried about it. I don't think you want to say it for the community.
1:00:09
Sure, I don't think you should worry about it. I agree,
1:00:13
But we haven't had somebody come to a high level event just to troll yet.
1:00:17
I don't think this has happened, like and maybe it's because it's not
1:00:22
big enough. Maybe it's because people don't want to waste their money just trolling,
1:00:25
but like I mean, we haven't had that yet. I mean you're
1:00:30
talking about in other games such as like Yu gi Oh, there was a
1:00:35
guy who brought a deck that was like one seventy six cards that might not
1:00:38
be a correct number, but it was a massive deck. I think they
1:00:42
called it like the coffin or something like that. And literally, like the
1:00:46
way he was playing his games is he had a bunch of cards basically every
1:00:51
card that he could pack in there that was able to be like shuffle your
1:00:54
deck. So literally he would have to shuffle like over a thousand cards every
1:00:59
single time and a properly shuffle a thousand cards you needed, like and he
1:01:04
did this just as a troll. I don't think we've seen that yet in
1:01:07
key Forge. No, we haven't seen any like that, not our trolls.
1:01:13
Stay on the forums. I'm working on it. I'm working on it.
1:01:17
But you know, but I'm telling you you have with key Forge.
1:01:22
You don't have all of the tools to bring it in. You have Heart,
1:01:27
like you. That's what you're talking about for that deck is that it
1:01:30
has cards that allow them to be able to shuffle. So you have a
1:01:32
very very small percentage of decks that are going to have Hearts and be able
1:01:37
to continue to do something goofy like that, like you have to win out
1:01:40
the other games. I just I don't see it. I don't see it
1:01:44
as a concern and I don't think that we should worry about it at all.
1:01:46
Was Heart something that probably shouldn't have been produced, sure, but it's
1:01:51
here. I don't see it as playing any of it in our top eight
1:01:54
for Alliance or Archon. Don't burn them, send them to look to your
1:02:00
Heart decks, all your Heart decks, because I'm sure there is a double
1:02:05
Heart deck now yes, a good decks more than likely going to rotate back,
1:02:08
so you're able to get your This is true, you could technically have
1:02:15
more if you can find it's double heart deck. You can have three though,
1:02:21
But again, going ahead, and there's there's a triple Heart deck.
1:02:25
It's forty eight sas. It's an isolated card. It's it's an isolated yeah,
1:02:31
no, it's not an isolated card. There's I'm looking at a triple
1:02:35
Heart of the Forest deck right now on d Okay Abelson Techno Spur Empiricist.
1:02:42
It's forty eight sas. Now I don't know it's now, I don't know
1:02:47
if Heart um and maybe it doesn't, maybe it doesn't. Wow, that
1:02:52
is the stupidest thing I know. I know. If you're able to then
1:02:59
like can heart can it become a Maverick? Yes, it can become a
1:03:06
Maverick. I mean, I guess they do say any card can become a
1:03:09
Maverick. But looking at this deck, this deck has no it has it
1:03:15
has no win con And frankly, if I'm going an alliance, I could
1:03:20
I could technically have four hearts. It doesn't matter, though, Wookie,
1:03:24
And this is the thing I was looking at bringing my good Heart deck to
1:03:29
ABR first week. I couldn't do it because ABR is fun, and it
1:03:32
just it wasn't fun from what was there, so I'd played it in previous
1:03:37
years. I just I brought a different deck because I wanted to be a
1:03:40
good sport and that's what it should be right now. With Heart, though,
1:03:45
we have tools. Not only do you have Reclaimed by Nature and all
1:03:50
the artifact destruction, but we also have ways with exalted Amber to be able
1:03:55
to send amber to force the person to be able to go above their key
1:04:01
limit. And if you're not thinking, you're thinking as a rational player,
1:04:06
but I'm saying like that, but I understand to totally understand what you're saying.
1:04:12
But you are thinking about as a rational player. Think about all the
1:04:15
things I can do right now, right if I have four Hearts. Let's
1:04:19
say I buy this triple Heart deck and then I find two Hearts, I
1:04:24
find two other um decent pods that also have Heart of the Forest, and
1:04:29
them maybe ones in Shadows that also includes like a key of Darkness or something
1:04:32
like that, something crazy. Technically I can have five. Sorry, I
1:04:39
went three five Hearts in my deck and it does not you're thinking about this
1:04:47
all wrong. You are not. There's no troll in you whatsoever. Right
1:04:53
now, I cannot only extend the game because remember this game only lasts for
1:04:56
forty five minutes. So every turn, I'm allowed to look at your discard
1:05:00
pile, then look at your deck list, then look at your discard pile,
1:05:03
and then maybe look at your deck list one more time, and then
1:05:06
take my turn drawing. Every single game, I play to a draw where
1:05:14
it comes down to what embers in the pool. I can do this.
1:05:18
You are thinking about this, just playing straight up, and my thing just
1:05:23
crashed. Hold on one second, guys, I guess I guess my discord
1:05:27
just crashed. Jenny checking for updates. Here we go. I'm still recording
1:05:34
here, but my discord just crashed. I'm back, I'm back, I'm
1:05:40
back, all right. But like what you just described though, yeah I
1:05:44
can hear you can hear me, Okay, yeah, I can hear you.
1:05:45
You just describe actually is the definition of cheating and slow play? Which
1:05:50
is it? And but like I said, I'm only I'm only operating in
1:05:56
the rules to which I am allowed. But again, in this manner,
1:06:00
that's the thing. The judgment. Oh I am literally coming in and out.
1:06:04
All right, we're gonna go onto the we're gonna go into the discard
1:06:09
app thing because I am in and out. For whatever reason, Discord does
1:06:15
not want to play nice with me today. Sorry, guys, there we
1:06:26
go. It's coming back up now. It's JR. Is a great player,
1:06:32
very possible. He starts to get nervous about it, so he slows
1:06:35
himself down and then he just starts to do that. Like by turn four,
1:06:40
lots of cars have been played. He starts to look. He look
1:06:42
to the discard file, He looks deckless. He plays his turn. He
1:06:45
is progressing towards the wind con actively trying to win the game time runs out.
1:06:48
He does that every time for the rest of the all rounds five through
1:06:54
time running out. He in that scenario would not be considered still playing.
1:06:59
He was progressing towards the wind con, yet his opponents off the entire time
1:07:04
beyond reason. Sorry, yeah, just kill it on me, and I'm
1:07:08
not sure why. But again, like what I'm saying is I am progressing
1:07:13
to my end game, but I am making sure that I am taking in
1:07:15
all the information that is That is a lot of You're not like you said
1:07:19
your statement, you're doing that to go to a draw, But I don't
1:07:23
say that. I'm not. I'm not going to sit there and be like,
1:07:25
oh, that's the judge has to make the determinat right. That would
1:07:28
be a judge determining before and in that case that person is actually cheaty but
1:07:33
so like. But I guess not what I was talking about. We have
1:07:36
not seen anybody actually do that. But no, nobody says my end game
1:07:41
has to be the same as your end game. The judge does. The
1:07:45
judge does. The end game cannot be to go to a draw. That
1:07:49
is not the goal. I'm not. I'm not looking to go to a
1:07:51
draw, but I'm looking to take this to a twelve round fight. It
1:07:55
doesn't say I can't do that. You're enjoying every moment. I am enjoying
1:08:00
every moment of key Forage and my opponent's company that I am able to.
1:08:06
I think that you can get away with it for a game. I don't
1:08:10
think that you're going to be able to. I think I could get away
1:08:12
with it for an event. I don't think then they would probably change the
1:08:15
rules. No, I think that you'll have a a I think you would
1:08:20
be considered to be like in the current our current judge staff, you would
1:08:26
be considered to be slow plane game one, yes, okay, and even
1:08:32
if you make it through a game one, then again you're gonna be sitting
1:08:36
down. They're judge be hired for Live would have marked you as little plane
1:08:42
and giving you a loss based on what you just described. Okay, but
1:08:46
let's just say my deck, this is what my deck does. Like you
1:08:55
didn't tell me, I couldn't build a deck that he can't have five hearts.
1:08:58
Again, you can have five of hearts, but you're missing the whole
1:09:01
component. I can go ahead and get you. I can give you keys
1:09:06
if I am playing with you're going to give me keys because I'm gonna give
1:09:11
you amber. You have, but I have I have heart turn, I
1:09:14
have I come, I come out heart before I there's five of them.
1:09:16
I'm going to find one before I forge my first key. It does not
1:09:21
matter. I will go ahead and with my dinos very specific. But but
1:09:29
but there, but there are ways to be able to give amber to their
1:09:33
parts. Are also a good chuck of decks that cannot do that. They're
1:09:39
most of I cannot argue with that. But like Jr. Like most decks
1:09:44
cannot do that, but you have you have Dinos, and you have Sory
1:09:46
and and you have MM. Frankly, with all the capture pips, there's
1:09:50
a lot running after does not give make them Amber j Air the decks of
1:09:56
that he's are referring to. He just discards everything until he plays a heart.
1:10:00
He doesn't generate him. Yeah, he's not going again. He yes,
1:10:04
it's it's going to be a pain Jared. There's no way around this.
1:10:09
It's it's going to be a painful game. Right, And every game
1:10:13
I play against, every opponent I play, is going to be painful.
1:10:15
There's no way around it. Right, It's just clear to our audience he's
1:10:19
not actually talking about doing this, right, this is I mean not not
1:10:23
yet. I'm going to start work on it after this show. But and
1:10:28
this is how Wookie makes it to Alliance, right, But I'm saying that
1:10:32
it's possible, right, Like there there are ways to break these rules,
1:10:38
and we haven't had somebody who's come in to the come into it trying to
1:10:43
be not until they hear this show, and then there will immediately be at
1:10:47
the farm, like you know what, I hate Alliance. So much right,
1:10:51
Wookie gave me the best idea. Yeah, so I keep sitting down.
1:10:56
I created the format. I'm now gonna break it. So but again,
1:11:00
we can go ahead, and we can go ahead and bear hand it.
1:11:05
You can go ahead. What's the diss artifact each jar? Where you
1:11:09
can't play at Bean's jar? So there you go, eating jar done,
1:11:12
can't play it? Like there's turn one A good chuck at the time,
1:11:15
at five five year it has a very very high probability. But again,
1:11:20
do you think that you're only gonna have Eaton's jar in your docking of No,
1:11:25
like these are again niche scenario Like Dam's already building it for me.
1:11:30
I don't even need it. I just don't see it as the deck.
1:11:34
That's not our community. That's not what I'm worried about. Show up,
1:11:40
show bring it, and I'm gonna laugh. I'm gonna laugh at you when
1:11:43
you go ahead and have a five heart deck and you're gonna lose, gonna
1:11:46
play. No one's going to do this. I'm just going to have my
1:11:50
fun. Don't say no one. I'm a little crazy. Um all right,
1:11:55
let's have it, let's move on. We're gonna see, um how
1:11:58
Skystoid. Didn't we talk about this. I don't know what this means.
1:12:01
No, okay. So in the two player Learn to Play on page twenty
1:12:09
one, they go into House Geystoid. We know that that's the new house
1:12:12
that's coming out for Grimm Reminders. But it gave a little bit of a
1:12:15
blurb, so I can go ahead and read it for our amazing audience,
1:12:17
and it says, the scourge of the Geystoids has spread throughout the Crucible,
1:12:21
seeking to remake the world in their own image. Each Geystoid minion is a
1:12:27
fusion of discarded refuse. So we see discard animated by psychic energy of amber
1:12:32
and driven to reek vengeance on the neglectful universe. Every scap to scast aside
1:12:42
by the living is a potential new minion to swell their ranks. I got
1:12:45
some nice photos and then it says exactly how the Geystoids came into being is
1:12:50
much debated, especially within the Society of Logic and Reason, a group that
1:12:55
has a special disdain for these ghostly constructs. Some claim demonic origins, leading
1:13:01
to speculation about ties to discs, while others insist it was an ill conceived
1:13:06
experiment's gone rampant, So I don't know. I like to see the lore
1:13:11
that's built in. I think that it's fun. So there you go a
1:13:16
little bit of reading for us today. House Geystoids timing chart was our other
1:13:21
one that was shown up. There wasn't much that was here, but you
1:13:25
have a new components put in step three, which is your play discard or
1:13:29
use cards, and four play. There are now four sections for playing card.
1:13:35
One if your card is a creature artifact or upgrade edit to your play
1:13:39
area, resolving any enters play effects. If your card is an action,
1:13:43
reveal it to resolve each bonus icon on the played card top to bottom.
1:13:48
And here's the new one. Three resolve play effects, after play effects and
1:13:53
after enters play effects for if your card is an action placed in your discard
1:13:58
pile. So they did put in play effects so we know where it is
1:14:01
now. Um, all right, we did get a new timing chart.
1:14:08
I think we go through this one another day. What do you guys say,
1:14:12
I mean, there's not much new there, but yeah, not much
1:14:14
new, but we can go through. I mean, nothing crazy, but
1:14:17
I just can cover it after the op news next week. That's right,
1:14:20
we can go because that's when it'll be most important. What was there more
1:14:25
than what I just went through there for the timing chart. Yeah, well,
1:14:30
I mean that was more looking at cards. You can't you're no longer
1:14:33
able to when creating a token look, put it face look at it,
1:14:38
and then place it. You got to place it and then you're able to
1:14:40
look it. Yeah, that's that's not the timing chart. I read the
1:14:43
timing chart for woe cards. Yes, they put in the rule that basically
1:14:47
you the order of how to do it is that you will draw your face
1:14:51
down card for woe and you pick your flank and you don't get a chance
1:14:56
to see it until after it is placed. Yeah, minor impact, but
1:15:01
interesting. Yeah, let's do something. Yeah, it does all right.
1:15:05
We'll go through flow chart on another week. Um. We got some ideas
1:15:12
for for what's coming up, dependent on what's going on, I guess we'll
1:15:15
we'll just we'll patiently wait for that OP news, which will probably come out
1:15:18
tomorrow because that's how things go. Um, and we'll talk to y'all next
1:15:25
week. You guys have anything to get through before we get out of here
1:15:28
and I start building my five heart deck or in the heart that's my final
1:15:32
words, Final final thoughts. Harry Springer did passed today. Moment of silence.
1:15:42
Silence with Terry Springer, all right, Well, if nobody's got anything
1:15:45
else, we'll see y'all next week. Made the Forge be with you.
1:16:00
A brush run down. That's adell ya canelly way. You don't have the
1:16:08
brow I bought to grow. Your love brought all my mor