Latest / The Other Human in the Room / 173. Giving Effective Feedback With Dr. Paul Tran

Transcript

173. Giving Effective Feedback With Dr. Paul Tran · The Other Human in the Room

0:05
Hello,
0:06
I'm
0:06
Joan.
0:07
I'm
0:07
a
0:08
Canadian
0:08
family
0:08
physician
0:09
who
0:10
also
0:10
works
0:11
as
0:11
a
0:11
restorative,
0:12
medical
0:12
educator,
0:13
facilitator
0:14
and
0:14
coach.
0:15
I
0:16
create
0:16
spaces
0:16
that
0:17
rehumanize
0:17
the
0:18
work
0:18
of
0:18
healthcare.
0:19
I'm
0:20
creating
0:20
this
0:20
podcast
0:21
to
0:21
remind
0:21
myself,
0:22
as
0:23
well
0:23
as
0:23
anyone
0:23
else
0:24
working
0:24
in
0:24
a
0:24
helping
0:24
profession
0:25
that
0:26
that
0:26
when
0:26
you
0:26
are
0:27
working
0:27
and
0:27
caring
0:28
for
0:28
your
0:28
human
0:28
patients,
0:30
you
0:30
are
0:30
the
0:30
other
0:31
human
0:31
in
0:32
the
0:32
room.
0:36
Hey
0:36
there,
0:36
healthcare
0:37
Human.
0:37
Today's
0:38
podcast
0:38
guest
0:39
is
0:39
a
0:39
fellow
0:39
co
0:39
founder
0:40
of
0:40
the
0:40
Hippocratic
0:41
Collective,
0:42
a
0:42
brand
0:42
new
0:43
podcasting
0:43
network
0:44
made
0:44
by
0:44
Physicians
0:45
for
0:45
Physicians.
0:46
I
0:46
am
0:46
thrilled
0:47
to
0:47
announce
0:47
that
0:47
the
0:48
other
0:48
human
0:48
in
0:48
the
0:48
room
0:48
is
0:49
joining
0:49
the
0:49
Hippocratic
0:50
Collective
0:50
alongside
0:51
other
0:51
physician
0:52
creators
0:53
who
0:53
are
0:53
are
0:53
inspired
0:54
to
0:54
use
0:54
their
0:54
voice
0:55
to
0:55
humanize
0:55
healthcare.
0:56
Physicians
0:57
need
0:57
to
0:57
be
0:57
heard,
0:58
not
0:58
just
0:58
consulted.
0:59
Together,
0:59
we're
1:00
here
1:00
to
1:00
Change
1:00
that.
1:01
Visit
1:01
HippocraticCollective.org
1:03
to
1:03
learn
1:03
more.
1:05
Hello
1:05
there,
1:05
healthcare
1:06
humans.
1:06
Thank
1:06
you
1:06
so
1:07
much
1:07
for
1:07
coming
1:07
back
1:07
for
1:07
another
1:08
episode
1:08
of
1:08
the
1:08
Other
1:09
Human
1:09
in
1:09
the
1:09
Room.
1:10
I
1:10
am
1:11
so
1:11
excited
1:12
to
1:12
be
1:12
talking
1:12
to
1:12
this
1:13
particular
1:13
healthcare
1:14
human
1:14
who
1:15
I've
1:15
only
1:15
actually
1:15
met
1:15
virtually
1:16
once
1:16
before.
1:17
But
1:17
I
1:17
feel
1:17
like
1:18
I
1:18
know
1:18
a
1:18
little
1:18
bit
1:18
because
1:19
I've
1:19
started
1:19
following
1:20
him
1:20
on
1:20
Instagram
1:21
and
1:21
TikTok
1:21
and
1:22
getting
1:22
into
1:23
his
1:23
hilarious
1:24
content
1:24
on
1:24
that
1:25
platform.
1:27
So
1:27
something
1:28
you'll
1:29
probably
1:29
have
1:29
heard
1:30
something
1:30
before
1:31
this
1:31
recording
1:32
that
1:32
talks
1:32
a
1:32
bit
1:32
more
1:33
about
1:33
the
1:33
details
1:33
of
1:33
how
1:34
we've
1:34
come
1:34
to
1:35
know
1:35
each
1:35
other
1:35
through
1:35
this
1:36
mutual
1:36
project
1:37
that's
1:37
super
1:37
exciting,
1:38
connecting
1:38
healthcare
1:39
humans.
1:40
But
1:41
through
1:41
that
1:41
initial
1:42
conversation
1:42
that
1:42
we
1:43
had
1:43
talking
1:43
with
1:43
these
1:43
other
1:44
co
1:44
founders
1:44
of
1:44
this
1:44
collective,
1:45
we're
1:45
going
1:45
to
1:45
be
1:45
a
1:45
part
1:45
of,
1:46
I.
1:47
My
1:47
ears
1:47
perked
1:48
up,
1:48
Paul,
1:49
when
1:49
I
1:49
heard
1:49
you
1:50
talking
1:50
about
1:50
your
1:51
passion
1:51
for
1:52
feedback.
1:53
And
1:54
so
1:54
that
1:55
is
1:55
gonna
1:55
be
1:55
the
1:56
main
1:56
topic,
1:56
I
1:57
think,
1:57
of
1:57
this
1:57
conversation.
1:58
But
1:58
before
1:58
we
1:59
dive
1:59
into
1:59
it,
1:59
I
2:00
would
2:00
love
2:00
for
2:00
you
2:00
to
2:00
introduce
2:01
yourself
2:01
to
2:01
everyone
2:01
listening.
2:03
Well,
2:03
it's
2:04
a
2:05
privilege
2:06
to
2:06
be
2:06
on
2:07
and
2:07
to
2:08
talk
2:08
about
2:09
the
2:09
thing
2:09
that
2:10
no
2:10
one
2:10
really
2:10
likes
2:10
to
2:10
talk
2:10
about,
2:11
which
2:11
is
2:11
feedback
2:11
and
2:12
no
2:12
one
2:12
wants
2:12
to
2:12
be
2:12
a
2:12
part
2:13
of.
2:15
But
2:15
my
2:15
name
2:16
is
2:16
Paul.
2:16
I
2:16
go
2:16
by
2:16
Paul.
2:18
I
2:18
made
2:18
a
2:18
deal
2:18
with
2:19
my
2:19
nurse
2:19
that
2:19
I
2:19
have
2:19
to
2:20
go
2:20
by
2:20
Dr.
2:20
Tran
2:20
with
2:21
my
2:21
patients
2:21
and
2:22
families.
2:23
And
2:23
I
2:23
say
2:23
families
2:24
because
2:24
I'm
2:24
a
2:24
pediatric
2:25
gastroenterologist.
2:27
I'm
2:27
in,
2:29
I
2:29
would
2:29
say,
2:29
a
2:30
50,
2:30
50
2:31
situation
2:32
of
2:32
my
2:32
life
2:32
where
2:32
I'm
2:33
50%
2:33
clinician,
2:34
50%
2:34
educator,
2:36
and
2:36
that's
2:36
been
2:36
my
2:37
platform.
2:37
You
2:38
mentioned
2:38
TikTok,
2:39
Instagram.
2:39
I
2:39
have
2:39
a
2:40
platform
2:40
that's
2:41
really
2:41
dedicated
2:42
to
2:43
medical
2:44
learners.
2:45
So
2:45
students,
2:46
residents,
2:46
fellows,
2:48
making
2:49
them
2:49
feel
2:49
seen,
2:50
heard,
2:51
appreciated.
2:52
And
2:52
my
2:52
mission
2:53
is
2:53
really
2:53
empower
2:54
and
2:54
equip
2:54
them.
2:54
And
2:55
I
2:55
try
2:55
to
2:55
do
2:55
that
2:55
in
2:55
every
2:56
single
2:56
piece
2:56
of
2:56
content
2:57
that
2:57
I
2:57
do,
2:57
whether
2:57
it's
2:58
entertainment
2:58
or
2:59
education,
2:59
I
3:00
try
3:00
to
3:00
address
3:01
them.
3:02
And
3:03
I've
3:03
been
3:04
really
3:04
fortunate
3:05
to
3:05
have
3:05
some
3:06
educational
3:07
opportunities.
3:07
I'm
3:07
a
3:07
co
3:08
creator,
3:09
director
3:09
of
3:09
a
3:09
pediatric
3:10
clerkship.
3:10
I
3:10
teach
3:11
first
3:11
and
3:11
second
3:11
year
3:11
med
3:12
students,
3:13
do
3:13
mentor
3:13
and
3:14
education
3:14
research.
3:15
So
3:15
it's
3:15
been
3:15
a
3:16
really
3:16
cool
3:16
start
3:16
to
3:16
my
3:16
career.
3:18
That's
3:18
amazing.
3:20
Yeah.
3:21
I
3:21
think
3:22
the
3:22
topic
3:22
of
3:23
feedback,
3:23
the
3:23
fact
3:23
that
3:23
you're
3:24
so
3:24
passionate
3:24
about
3:24
it,
3:24
but
3:25
like
3:25
you
3:25
say,
3:25
like
3:26
people
3:26
don't
3:27
want
3:27
to
3:27
talk
3:27
about
3:28
it,
3:28
they
3:28
kind
3:29
of
3:29
wish
3:29
it
3:29
wasn't
3:30
needed.
3:31
I
3:32
probably
3:33
not
3:33
everyone,
3:33
but
3:33
lots
3:34
of
3:34
people,
3:34
that's
3:34
like
3:34
the
3:34
general
3:35
vibe
3:35
I've
3:35
experienced
3:36
as
3:36
well.
3:36
So
3:36
like
3:37
you
3:37
know,
3:37
as
3:37
a
3:38
family
3:38
physician
3:39
as
3:39
well
3:39
as
3:40
an
3:40
educator.
3:40
So
3:40
I'm
3:41
faculty
3:41
at
3:41
my
3:41
local
3:42
university
3:43
and
3:44
I
3:45
just
3:45
took
3:45
on
3:46
my
3:46
first
3:46
resident
3:47
to
3:47
be
3:47
with
3:47
me
3:47
kind
3:47
of
3:48
full
3:48
time
3:48
this
3:48
past
3:48
year
3:49
and
3:49
I
3:50
noticed
3:50
myself
3:50
getting
3:51
kind
3:51
of
3:51
like
3:51
sweaty
3:52
about.
3:54
Oh
3:54
my
3:54
gosh.
3:55
Oh
3:55
no,
3:55
no.
3:56
I
3:56
have
3:56
to
3:57
give
3:57
them
3:57
feedback
3:57
all
3:58
the
3:58
time.
3:58
Even
3:59
though,
3:59
you
3:59
know,
3:59
I'm
4:00
a
4:00
coach,
4:01
I
4:01
am
4:01
passionate
4:02
about
4:02
education.
4:02
Actually
4:04
I
4:04
haven't
4:04
necessarily
4:05
had
4:05
that
4:05
much
4:06
experience
4:06
with
4:06
like
4:06
that
4:06
kind
4:06
of
4:07
one
4:07
on
4:07
one
4:08
side
4:08
by
4:08
side
4:09
feedback.
4:09
And
4:10
it
4:10
was
4:10
really
4:11
interesting
4:11
the
4:11
kind
4:11
of
4:12
like
4:12
socialized
4:13
anxiety
4:14
that
4:14
came
4:14
through
4:14
my
4:14
head
4:15
of
4:15
like,
4:16
what
4:16
if
4:16
I
4:16
hurt
4:16
their
4:17
feelings?
4:18
If
4:18
I
4:18
don't
4:19
deliver
4:19
feedback
4:20
enough,
4:21
I'm
4:21
going
4:21
to
4:21
be
4:22
the
4:22
reason
4:23
that
4:23
they're
4:24
a
4:24
bad
4:24
doctor.
4:25
But
4:25
if
4:26
I
4:26
deliver
4:26
in
4:27
a
4:27
bad
4:27
way,
4:27
I'm
4:28
going
4:28
to
4:28
traumatize
4:28
them
4:29
forever.
4:30
Right.
4:30
My
4:30
brain
4:31
gets
4:31
very
4:31
dramatic
4:32
and
4:32
I
4:32
could
4:33
think
4:33
of
4:33
past
4:33
experiences
4:34
going
4:35
through
4:35
as
4:35
a
4:35
learner
4:35
myself
4:36
where
4:36
like
4:37
I
4:37
think
4:37
I
4:37
would
4:38
say
4:38
mostly
4:38
I
4:38
like
4:39
maybe
4:39
wasn't
4:39
given
4:40
that
4:40
much
4:40
feedback
4:41
and
4:41
then
4:42
the
4:42
most
4:42
memorable
4:43
feedback
4:43
I
4:43
was
4:43
given
4:44
was
4:45
not
4:45
memorable
4:45
for
4:46
good
4:46
reason.
4:47
And
4:47
I
4:48
don't
4:48
know
4:48
that
4:48
I
4:48
actually
4:48
learned
4:48
anything
4:49
other
4:49
than
4:49
to
4:50
like
4:50
try
4:50
and
4:51
hide
4:51
and
4:51
not
4:51
do
4:52
things
4:52
around
4:52
scary,
4:53
mean
4:53
preceptors,
4:54
you
4:54
know.
4:54
So
4:55
that's
4:55
the
4:55
like
4:56
energy
4:56
I
4:56
bring
4:56
to
4:57
this
4:57
conversation.
4:58
I
4:58
also
4:59
think
4:59
this
4:59
would
4:59
be
4:59
relevant
5:00
even
5:00
if
5:00
folks
5:00
aren't
5:01
medical
5:01
educators.
5:02
Like
5:02
a
5:02
lot
5:02
of
5:03
us
5:04
are
5:04
on
5:04
teams.
5:05
Like
5:05
I
5:05
am
5:05
also
5:06
like
5:06
I
5:07
employ
5:07
nurses
5:08
and
5:08
staff
5:09
and
5:09
I
5:09
am
5:09
like
5:09
a
5:09
colleague
5:10
as
5:10
well.
5:11
And
5:12
we
5:12
also
5:12
bulk
5:13
at
5:13
giving
5:13
feedback
5:13
to
5:14
our
5:14
team
5:14
members,
5:15
to
5:16
our,
5:16
to
5:16
employees.
5:17
Even
5:17
though
5:17
that's
5:17
a
5:18
really
5:18
great
5:18
important
5:19
part
5:19
of
5:20
employing
5:20
people
5:20
is
5:21
to
5:21
give
5:21
them
5:21
feedback.
5:22
So
5:22
I
5:22
imagine
5:23
that
5:23
a
5:23
lot
5:23
of
5:23
what
5:23
you
5:23
can
5:23
share
5:24
with
5:24
us
5:24
would
5:25
apply
5:25
across
5:25
like
5:25
a
5:25
lot
5:26
of
5:26
different
5:26
ways.
5:28
But
5:28
yeah,
5:28
I'D
5:28
love
5:28
to
5:29
hear
5:30
your
5:30
initial
5:30
thoughts
5:31
of
5:31
just
5:31
like,
5:31
what
5:31
I
5:31
shared
5:32
in
5:32
terms
5:32
of
5:33
is
5:33
my
5:33
mindset
5:34
and
5:34
some
5:34
of
5:35
my,
5:35
like,
5:35
social
5:36
anxiety
5:36
about
5:37
giving
5:37
feedback
5:37
something
5:38
that
5:38
you've
5:38
experienced
5:39
or
5:39
heard
5:39
from
5:39
others
5:40
that
5:40
they
5:40
experience.
5:41
Oh,
5:42
that
5:42
was
5:42
the
5:43
first
5:43
thing
5:43
on
5:43
the
5:43
tip
5:44
of
5:44
my
5:44
tongue.
5:45
Yeah.
5:45
You
5:46
are
5:46
not
5:46
crazy
5:47
and
5:48
you
5:48
are
5:48
not
5:49
alone
5:49
and
5:49
you're
5:49
not
5:50
dramatic.
5:50
This
5:50
is
5:51
every
5:51
single
5:52
person's
5:52
experience.
5:54
Every
5:54
single
5:54
person's
5:55
experience,
5:56
whether
5:56
you're
5:56
in
5:57
education
5:57
or
5:57
not.
5:59
The
6:01
analogy
6:02
that
6:02
I
6:02
use
6:03
is
6:05
kale.
6:07
Starts
6:07
with
6:07
kale.
6:08
Okay,
6:09
tell
6:09
me.
6:11
You'Re
6:12
a
6:12
health
6:12
conscious
6:12
person,
6:13
you
6:13
have
6:13
kale
6:13
salad
6:14
for
6:14
lunch,
6:16
you
6:16
feel
6:16
great
6:16
about
6:17
yourself.
6:18
It's
6:19
a
6:19
you
6:19
thing,
6:19
right?
6:20
Like,
6:21
I
6:21
could
6:21
have
6:21
had
6:21
the
6:21
quesadilla,
6:22
but
6:23
I
6:23
chose
6:23
to
6:23
have
6:23
the
6:23
kale
6:24
salad.
6:25
And
6:26
you
6:26
go
6:26
about
6:27
your
6:27
day
6:27
after
6:27
eating
6:28
that,
6:28
feeling
6:28
great
6:28
about
6:29
yourself.
6:29
You
6:29
see
6:29
patients,
6:30
you
6:30
talk
6:31
to
6:31
your
6:31
team,
6:32
you
6:33
have
6:33
a
6:34
podcast
6:34
recording,
6:35
you're
6:35
on
6:36
a
6:36
teams
6:37
or
6:37
zoom
6:37
meeting.
6:38
And
6:39
then
6:39
it's
6:39
not
6:39
until
6:40
you,
6:40
you
6:41
get
6:41
ready
6:41
for
6:41
bed,
6:42
brushing
6:43
your
6:43
teeth,
6:43
you
6:43
realize
6:43
you've
6:44
had
6:44
a
6:44
piece
6:44
of
6:44
kale
6:44
stuck
6:45
in
6:45
your
6:45
teeth
6:47
all
6:47
day.
6:47
The
6:48
nightmare.
6:48
Yes,
6:49
all
6:49
day.
6:50
All
6:50
day.
6:51
And
6:51
20
6:51
people
6:52
had
6:52
the
6:52
opportunity
6:53
to
6:53
say,
6:54
hey,
6:55
Joan,
6:57
just
6:58
even
6:59
a
6:59
little
6:59
gesture,
7:00
but
7:00
no
7:00
one
7:01
said
7:01
anything
7:01
to
7:02
you.
7:04
So
7:04
that
7:05
experience
7:06
is.
7:06
Is
7:06
probably
7:07
more
7:07
common
7:08
that
7:08
you
7:08
mentioned,
7:09
the
7:09
not
7:09
getting
7:10
feedback
7:11
than
7:11
the
7:11
feedback
7:12
that
7:12
shakes
7:13
your
7:13
foundation,
7:13
that
7:14
makes
7:14
you
7:15
question
7:15
your
7:15
identity.
7:16
It's
7:17
the
7:17
absence
7:17
of
7:17
feedback.
7:18
I
7:18
think
7:18
that's
7:19
more
7:19
prevalent
7:20
than
7:20
the
7:20
overwhelmingly
7:21
traumatic
7:22
feedback.
7:24
And
7:24
it's
7:25
insidious.
7:26
No
7:26
one
7:27
calls
7:27
out
7:27
lack
7:28
of
7:28
feedback.
7:29
You
7:29
can
7:29
kind
7:29
of
7:30
stand
7:30
up
7:30
for
7:30
yourself
7:30
and
7:31
say,
7:31
that
7:31
feedback
7:31
that
7:32
you
7:32
gave
7:32
me
7:32
was
7:33
inappropriate.
7:34
It
7:34
was
7:37
discriminatory.
7:38
I
7:39
think
7:39
it's
7:39
a
7:39
lot
7:39
easier
7:40
to
7:40
say
7:40
that
7:40
when
7:40
it's
7:41
very
7:41
blatant.
7:41
But
7:42
the
7:42
absence
7:43
or
7:43
apathetic
7:44
feedback,
7:45
very
7:45
difficult
7:46
to
7:46
call
7:46
out.
7:48
That's
7:49
like
7:49
the
7:49
first
7:49
thing
7:49
I
7:49
think
7:49
of.
7:50
But
7:50
the
7:50
second
7:50
thing
7:50
I
7:50
think
7:51
of
7:51
is
7:52
actually
7:52
goes
7:52
back
7:52
to
7:53
why
7:54
I
7:54
really
7:55
feel
7:55
strongly
7:55
about
7:56
being
7:56
called
7:56
Paul,
7:57
especially
7:57
on
7:57
a
7:57
healthcare
7:58
team.
7:59
Because
7:59
if
7:59
I'm
8:00
working
8:00
with
8:00
my
8:00
nurse,
8:02
a
8:02
team
8:03
member,
8:03
anyone,
8:05
I
8:05
want
8:05
to
8:06
remove
8:06
even
8:06
that
8:07
little
8:07
bit
8:07
of
8:08
friction
8:09
where
8:09
if
8:09
I
8:09
make
8:09
a
8:10
mistake,
8:12
the
8:12
difference
8:12
between
8:13
Dr.
8:13
Tran,
8:14
I
8:16
don't
8:17
think
8:17
that
8:17
this
8:17
was
8:18
appropriate
8:18
or
8:18
whatever,
8:18
or,
8:19
hey,
8:19
Paul,
8:20
I
8:20
gotta
8:21
tell
8:21
you
8:21
something.
8:21
You
8:22
know
8:22
that
8:22
tiny
8:23
little
8:23
bit
8:23
of
8:23
friction
8:24
by
8:24
having
8:24
some
8:25
familiarity
8:25
to
8:25
say,
8:26
Paul
8:26
removes
8:27
a
8:27
little
8:27
bit
8:27
of
8:27
that
8:28
kind
8:28
of
8:28
artificial
8:28
hierarchy
8:29
within
8:29
a
8:29
team.
8:30
So
8:30
that's
8:31
my
8:31
kind
8:31
of
8:31
personal
8:31
style
8:32
when
8:33
you,
8:33
when
8:33
you
8:33
mention
8:34
a
8:34
team.
8:35
I
8:36
love
8:36
that.
8:36
Yeah,
8:37
Actually,
8:37
I
8:38
think
8:38
that's
8:38
an
8:38
important
8:38
element
8:39
to
8:39
bring
8:39
in.
8:40
Like,
8:41
why,
8:41
like,
8:41
exploring
8:42
why
8:42
we
8:42
hesitate
8:43
to
8:43
give
8:43
feedback.
8:44
Right.
8:44
Like,
8:46
depending
8:46
on
8:47
our
8:47
role,
8:48
either
8:48
we're
8:49
the
8:49
person
8:49
with
8:50
power
8:51
of
8:51
some
8:52
kind
8:52
and
8:53
we
8:53
perceive
8:53
that
8:54
if
8:54
we
8:54
give
8:54
feedback,
8:56
it
8:56
will
8:56
be
8:57
almost,
8:57
like,
8:57
taken
8:58
too
8:58
harshly,
8:59
or
8:59
we
8:59
feel
8:59
nervous
9:00
about.
9:00
We
9:01
have.
9:01
We
9:01
haven't
9:01
found
9:01
our
9:02
way
9:02
to
9:02
feel
9:02
comfortable
9:02
about,
9:03
like,
9:03
the
9:03
fact
9:03
that
9:03
there's
9:04
a
9:04
certain
9:04
amount
9:04
of
9:04
power
9:05
or
9:05
differential
9:06
or
9:06
something
9:06
in
9:06
the
9:07
room
9:07
and,
9:07
like,
9:07
how
9:07
to
9:08
deal
9:08
with
9:08
that.
9:09
And
9:09
on
9:09
the
9:10
flip
9:10
side,
9:10
if.
9:10
If
9:10
we
9:11
are
9:11
feeling
9:11
whether
9:12
it's
9:12
true
9:12
or
9:12
not,
9:12
but
9:12
we're
9:13
feeling
9:13
a
9:13
power
9:13
differential
9:14
in
9:14
the
9:14
other
9:14
direction.
9:15
So,
9:15
like,
9:16
say
9:16
we
9:16
are
9:17
a
9:17
learner
9:17
and
9:18
we
9:18
have
9:19
feedback
9:19
that
9:19
we'd
9:19
like
9:20
to
9:20
give
9:20
to
9:20
our
9:21
preceptor.
9:21
Or
9:21
even,
9:22
like,
9:22
I
9:22
think
9:22
for
9:22
myself,
9:24
I
9:24
work
9:25
with
9:25
colleagues
9:25
who
9:25
are
9:25
more
9:26
senior
9:26
than
9:26
me.
9:27
And
9:27
like,
9:27
certainly
9:28
especially
9:28
when
9:28
I
9:28
first
9:29
started,
9:29
I
9:29
was
9:29
like,
9:29
I'm
9:30
the
9:30
new
9:30
one
9:30
here.
9:30
I
9:31
can't
9:31
give
9:31
them
9:31
feedback.
9:32
Like,
9:33
like,
9:33
and
9:33
I
9:33
would.
9:33
I
9:34
would
9:34
feel
9:34
nervous
9:35
to
9:35
do
9:35
so.
9:35
And
9:36
so,
9:36
like,
9:36
kind
9:36
of
9:37
naming
9:37
and
9:38
finding
9:38
ways
9:39
to
9:39
at
9:39
least
9:40
diminish
9:40
the
9:40
power
9:41
differential.
9:41
It
9:41
sounds
9:42
like
9:42
that's
9:42
one
9:42
of
9:42
your
9:42
strategies
9:43
that
9:43
helping
9:43
helps
9:44
to
9:44
encourage
9:44
feedback.
9:45
Hey,
9:46
yeah.
9:47
It's
9:47
called
9:47
upward
9:48
feedback.
9:48
In
9:49
the
9:49
at
9:49
least
9:49
medical
9:50
education
9:50
literature,
9:50
when
9:51
you
9:51
give
9:52
feedback
9:52
to
9:52
a
9:52
superior
9:53
or
9:53
someone
9:53
who's
9:54
precepting,
9:55
and
9:55
there's
9:56
a
9:56
lot
9:56
of
9:56
the
9:57
obvious
9:57
reasons
9:58
why
9:58
you
9:58
don't
9:58
want
9:59
to
9:59
do
9:59
that.
9:59
Ramifications.
10:01
I
10:01
think
10:01
the
10:01
two
10:01
things
10:02
in
10:02
one
10:02
study
10:03
that
10:03
was
10:03
done
10:03
a
10:03
couple
10:04
years
10:04
ago
10:05
where
10:05
they
10:05
interviewed
10:06
residents
10:06
was
10:07
really,
10:08
I
10:08
don't
10:08
want
10:09
to
10:09
give
10:09
feedback
10:10
to
10:10
someone
10:10
who
10:10
holds
10:11
my
10:11
future
10:11
in
10:11
the
10:11
palm
10:12
of
10:12
their
10:12
hand.
10:13
Classic.
10:14
And
10:14
I
10:14
don't
10:15
want
10:15
to
10:15
give
10:15
feedback
10:16
to
10:16
someone
10:17
wasting
10:17
my
10:17
breath
10:18
when
10:18
it's
10:18
not
10:18
going
10:18
to
10:18
change
10:19
anything.
10:21
So
10:21
it's
10:21
this
10:21
fear
10:22
of
10:22
ramification
10:22
and
10:22
fear
10:23
of
10:23
lack
10:23
of
10:23
response,
10:24
I
10:24
guess.
10:25
Yeah.
10:26
Oh,
10:26
that's
10:27
so
10:27
interesting.
10:28
Yeah.
10:29
So
10:29
what
10:29
would
10:29
you
10:30
say
10:30
then?
10:32
I.
10:32
I
10:32
think
10:33
one
10:33
of
10:33
the
10:33
best
10:33
ways
10:34
then
10:34
to
10:35
get
10:35
over
10:35
that
10:36
fear
10:36
that
10:36
we
10:36
may
10:37
have,
10:37
like,
10:37
if
10:37
we
10:37
recognize,
10:38
right,
10:38
feedback's
10:39
important.
10:39
Right.
10:41
Maybe
10:42
actually
10:42
speak
10:42
to
10:42
that.
10:43
Why
10:43
do
10:43
you
10:43
think
10:44
feedback
10:44
is
10:44
important?
10:45
Why
10:45
can't
10:45
we
10:45
just
10:46
keep
10:46
going
10:46
on
10:46
the
10:46
way
10:47
that
10:47
we're
10:47
going
10:47
now?
10:47
Like,
10:48
what's
10:48
missing?
10:48
What
10:49
are
10:49
we
10:49
missing
10:49
out
10:49
on?
10:50
Because
10:50
we're
10:51
not
10:51
taking
10:51
the
10:52
time
10:52
to
10:52
get
10:52
skillful
10:53
with
10:53
our
10:53
feedback.
10:55
I
10:55
think
10:56
we
10:56
are
10:56
missing
10:57
on
10:58
the
10:58
thing
10:58
that's
10:59
most
10:59
important
10:59
to
11:00
me
11:01
and
11:02
my
11:03
values,
11:03
my
11:04
moral
11:04
code.
11:05
Even
11:05
when
11:06
I
11:06
bring
11:06
in
11:06
my
11:06
faith,
11:07
it's
11:07
kindness.
11:08
To
11:08
me,
11:09
kindness
11:10
is
11:10
the
11:10
most
11:11
important
11:11
quality.
11:12
I
11:12
have
11:12
three
11:12
Boys,
11:13
a
11:13
newborn
11:16
and
11:16
our
11:17
family
11:18
creed.
11:19
My
11:20
wife
11:20
and
11:20
I,
11:21
while
11:21
we
11:21
were
11:21
in
11:21
the
11:22
hospital,
11:22
thought
11:22
of
11:23
one.
11:24
And
11:25
kindness
11:25
is
11:25
the
11:26
most
11:26
important
11:26
value
11:27
to
11:27
us.
11:27
We
11:28
are
11:28
kind
11:28
with
11:29
our
11:29
words
11:29
and
11:29
our
11:29
actions
11:30
is
11:30
kind
11:31
of
11:31
the
11:31
first
11:31
line
11:32
of
11:32
that.
11:32
And
11:34
kindness
11:35
is
11:35
mistaken
11:36
as
11:36
niceness
11:38
or
11:38
they're
11:39
not
11:39
interchangeable.
11:41
They
11:41
are
11:41
definitely
11:42
overlapping,
11:42
but
11:43
it's
11:43
rectangle
11:43
square
11:44
situation.
11:46
I
11:46
think
11:46
a
11:47
lot
11:47
of
11:47
people
11:47
think,
11:47
oh,
11:48
I
11:48
want
11:48
to
11:48
be
11:48
nice.
11:50
And
11:51
it's
11:52
actually
11:52
in
11:52
the
11:52
literature
11:53
called
11:53
niceties
11:54
or
11:54
politeness
11:55
concepts.
11:56
I
11:56
want
11:56
to
11:56
be
11:57
nice.
11:57
So
11:57
Joan,
11:58
I'm
11:58
going
11:58
to
11:58
be
11:58
nice
11:59
and
11:59
say
11:59
good
11:59
job.
12:00
And
12:01
say
12:01
good
12:01
job.
12:02
Whereas
12:03
kindness,
12:03
I
12:03
think
12:04
is
12:04
very
12:04
important.
12:05
And
12:05
kindness
12:06
can
12:06
be
12:06
honest,
12:06
kind
12:07
of.
12:07
Kindness
12:07
can
12:07
be
12:08
candid.
12:09
Kindness
12:09
can
12:09
be
12:09
like,
12:10
hey,
12:10
you
12:10
made
12:10
a
12:10
mistake
12:11
and
12:11
I
12:11
need
12:11
you
12:11
to
12:11
be
12:11
accountable
12:12
for
12:13
it.
12:13
But
12:13
here's
12:14
how
12:14
I'm
12:14
going
12:14
to
12:14
help
12:14
you
12:15
improve.
12:15
Here's
12:16
why
12:16
it's
12:16
so
12:17
important
12:17
that
12:17
you
12:18
are
12:18
accountable
12:18
for
12:19
this
12:19
mistake,
12:20
this
12:20
accident,
12:21
whatever
12:21
it
12:21
is.
12:23
So
12:23
I
12:23
think
12:23
we
12:25
miss
12:26
out
12:26
on
12:26
opportunities
12:27
to
12:27
a
12:27
be
12:28
kind
12:28
and
12:28
to
12:29
serve
12:29
other
12:29
people.
12:30
If
12:31
we
12:31
don't
12:31
give
12:32
feedback,
12:33
I
12:33
think
12:33
we
12:33
miss
12:34
out
12:34
on
12:34
opportunities
12:35
to
12:35
just
12:35
improve
12:36
communication
12:37
and
12:37
build
12:37
that
12:38
flourishing
12:38
team.
12:39
A
12:39
team
12:40
should
12:41
have
12:42
its
12:42
own
12:43
back.
12:43
Like
12:43
each
12:44
member
12:44
should
12:44
be
12:45
supporting
12:45
and
12:46
watching
12:46
out
12:46
for
12:47
every
12:47
member
12:47
of
12:47
their
12:47
team.
12:48
And
12:48
I
12:49
think
12:49
if
12:49
we
12:49
can't
12:49
give
12:49
the
12:50
feedback,
12:50
that
12:50
communication
12:51
lapse
12:52
is
12:52
actually
12:52
detrimental
12:53
to
12:53
team
12:54
cohesion
12:55
and
12:55
function.
12:57
So
12:57
those
12:58
are
12:58
two
12:58
things.
12:58
And
12:59
then
12:59
you
12:59
mentioned
12:59
coaching.
13:00
I
13:00
think
13:00
for
13:01
me,
13:01
when
13:01
I
13:01
think
13:01
about
13:01
coaching,
13:03
a
13:03
good
13:03
coach
13:05
knows
13:06
how
13:06
to
13:06
help
13:07
their
13:09
coachee,
13:13
their
13:13
client,
13:14
their
13:14
student
13:15
see
13:16
their
13:16
own
13:16
blind
13:16
spots.
13:17
We
13:17
can't
13:18
recognize
13:18
our
13:18
blind
13:19
spots.
13:19
I
13:20
think
13:20
unconscious
13:21
incompetence,
13:23
I
13:23
don't
13:23
know
13:24
what
13:24
I
13:24
don't
13:25
know
13:25
or
13:25
can't
13:26
do.
13:27
So
13:27
a
13:28
good
13:28
coach
13:28
or
13:28
someone
13:29
who
13:29
can
13:29
give
13:29
me
13:29
feedback
13:32
helps
13:32
me
13:32
see
13:32
for
13:33
myself
13:34
what
13:34
I
13:34
don't
13:35
know
13:35
so
13:35
that
13:35
I
13:36
can
13:36
move
13:36
from
13:37
unconscious
13:37
incompetence
13:38
to
13:38
conscious
13:39
incompetence.
13:40
I'm
13:40
very
13:40
conscious
13:41
about
13:41
what
13:42
my
13:42
gaps
13:42
are.
13:43
They
13:43
don't
13:44
have
13:44
to
13:44
help
13:44
me
13:44
fill
13:44
the
13:45
gaps.
13:45
I
13:46
think
13:46
they're
13:46
just
13:46
helping
13:46
me
13:47
self
13:47
realize
13:48
what
13:48
my
13:48
gaps
13:48
are.
13:50
And
13:50
then
13:50
I
13:50
can
13:50
move
13:51
my
13:51
own,
13:52
on
13:53
my
13:53
own
13:53
towards
13:54
addressing
13:54
those
13:55
gaps,
13:56
whether
13:56
I
13:56
need
13:56
help
13:57
or
13:57
not.
13:58
I
13:58
think
13:59
those
13:59
are
13:59
the
13:59
three
13:59
things
14:00
I
14:00
think
14:00
about
14:00
when
14:01
you
14:02
miss
14:02
out
14:02
on
14:02
feedback.
14:03
And
14:04
I'm
14:04
sure
14:04
there's
14:05
lots
14:05
of
14:05
other
14:05
things
14:06
that
14:06
we're
14:06
missing
14:06
out
14:06
on
14:07
or
14:07
we
14:07
could
14:08
really
14:08
benefit
14:08
from
14:09
having
14:09
better
14:09
conversations.
14:11
I
14:12
think
14:12
you're
14:12
just
14:12
really
14:12
highlighting
14:13
how
14:13
like
14:14
it's
14:14
an
14:14
essential
14:14
part
14:15
of
14:15
being
14:15
in
14:15
relationship
14:16
with
14:17
whatever
14:18
relationship
14:19
you're
14:19
having,
14:19
whether
14:19
it's
14:19
like,
14:20
you
14:21
know,
14:21
mentor,
14:21
mentee,
14:22
relationship,
14:22
or
14:23
a
14:23
staff
14:23
member
14:23
or
14:23
colleague,
14:25
I
14:25
mean
14:25
even
14:25
patient,
14:26
clinician
14:27
potentially
14:27
in
14:27
terms
14:27
of
14:28
feedback
14:28
that
14:28
can
14:28
be
14:28
given.
14:29
Like
14:30
if
14:30
we
14:30
think
14:30
holding
14:31
our
14:31
tongue
14:31
is
14:32
how
14:32
you
14:32
maintain
14:33
the
14:33
relationship
14:34
over
14:35
time,
14:35
that's
14:35
gonna
14:35
build
14:36
up.
14:36
I
14:37
know
14:37
for
14:37
myself,
14:37
like
14:38
as
14:38
an
14:38
employer,
14:39
I've
14:39
learned,
14:40
you
14:40
know,
14:40
you
14:41
can
14:41
be
14:41
like,
14:41
oh,
14:41
it's
14:41
probably
14:42
fine.
14:42
Oh,
14:42
it's
14:42
probably
14:42
fine.
14:43
But
14:43
then
14:43
what
14:44
happens
14:44
is
14:44
over
14:44
time,
14:45
then
14:45
suddenly
14:46
you've
14:46
reached
14:46
your
14:46
breaking
14:47
point
14:47
and
14:47
maybe
14:47
you're
14:47
more
14:47
likely
14:48
to
14:48
deliver
14:48
feedback
14:49
in
14:49
a
14:49
way
14:50
that's
14:51
less
14:51
ideal
14:51
in
14:51
terms
14:52
of
14:52
like
14:52
out
14:52
of
14:52
frustration
14:53
or
14:53
even
14:54
if
14:54
it's
14:54
done
14:54
calmly,
14:55
you
14:55
know,
14:55
if
14:55
you
14:56
wait
14:56
for
14:57
the
14:57
year
14:57
mark
14:58
when
14:58
you've
14:58
lived
14:58
literally
14:59
not
14:59
given
14:59
any
14:59
other
14:59
feedback
15:00
along
15:00
the
15:00
way,
15:00
the
15:01
person's
15:01
going
15:01
to
15:01
be
15:01
blindsided
15:02
and
15:02
we've
15:03
missed
15:03
out
15:03
on
15:03
all
15:03
those
15:03
opportunities
15:04
for
15:04
them
15:04
to
15:05
actually
15:05
learn
15:05
and
15:05
grow
15:05
along
15:06
the
15:06
way.
15:06
So
15:07
the
15:07
more
15:08
we
15:08
retreat
15:08
from
15:09
it,
15:09
the
15:10
harder
15:10
it
15:10
gets.
15:11
Plus
15:12
we
15:12
also
15:12
don't
15:12
have
15:12
practice
15:12
doing
15:13
it.
15:13
So
15:13
then
15:13
we
15:13
are
15:13
probably
15:14
aren't
15:14
going
15:14
to
15:14
be
15:14
as
15:14
skillful
15:15
at
15:15
it.
15:15
Right.
15:15
So
15:16
that's
15:16
right.
15:16
Probably.
15:17
It's
15:17
probably
15:17
better
15:17
than
15:18
purposeful.
15:20
Yes.
15:21
Oh
15:21
my
15:21
gosh.
15:21
Exactly.
15:23
And
15:23
it,
15:23
and
15:24
well,
15:25
as
15:26
I've
15:26
practiced
15:26
doing
15:27
it
15:27
more,
15:27
I've
15:28
noticed
15:28
that
15:29
it
15:30
doesn't
15:30
have
15:30
to
15:30
feel
15:31
so
15:31
scary.
15:33
One
15:33
of
15:33
the
15:34
things
15:34
I
15:34
would
15:35
love
15:35
to
15:35
know
15:35
if
15:35
you
15:36
have
15:36
thoughts
15:36
on
15:36
is
15:37
like,
15:39
if
15:39
you
15:39
think
15:40
about
15:40
and
15:40
in
15:40
some
15:41
ways,
15:42
whether
15:42
it's
15:42
like
15:42
diffuse
15:43
or
15:43
like
15:44
facilitate
15:45
some
15:46
of
15:46
like
15:46
the
15:46
shame
15:46
based
15:47
ideas
15:48
that
15:48
can
15:48
make
15:49
feedback
15:49
feel
15:50
really
15:50
tricky.
15:51
So
15:52
an
15:52
idea.
15:52
I
15:53
often
15:53
see
15:53
that
15:53
like
15:54
learners
15:54
or
15:54
people
15:54
who
15:55
are
15:55
still
15:55
learning,
15:55
which
15:56
is
15:56
literally
15:56
everyone,
15:57
like
15:58
being,
15:58
being
15:59
told
15:59
you've
15:59
made
16:00
a
16:00
mistake
16:01
depending
16:02
on
16:02
that
16:02
person's
16:03
like
16:04
what
16:04
they
16:04
have
16:04
heard
16:04
before
16:05
about
16:06
what
16:06
mistakes
16:06
mean
16:07
about
16:07
them
16:07
as
16:07
a
16:08
person,
16:08
like
16:09
can
16:09
feel
16:10
devastating
16:11
anyway.
16:12
Like
16:12
even
16:12
if
16:12
you
16:12
deliver
16:12
it
16:13
kindly,
16:13
if
16:13
someone's
16:13
like,
16:14
I'm
16:14
not
16:14
allowed
16:14
to
16:14
make
16:15
a
16:15
mistake
16:15
because
16:15
of
16:16
my
16:17
past
16:17
experiences,
16:19
that
16:19
can
16:19
still
16:20
like
16:20
pack
16:20
a
16:21
punch,
16:21
if
16:21
you
16:21
will.
16:22
Yeah.
16:22
Have
16:23
you
16:23
encountered
16:23
that
16:24
and
16:25
what
16:26
are
16:26
some
16:26
of
16:26
the
16:26
ways
16:26
that
16:27
you
16:27
kind
16:28
of
16:28
think
16:28
of
16:28
and
16:28
manage
16:30
this
16:30
idea
16:30
that
16:31
we
16:31
have
16:31
this
16:31
really
16:32
inhuman
16:32
shame
16:32
based
16:33
idea
16:33
that
16:33
we're
16:33
not
16:33
allowed
16:34
to
16:34
make
16:34
mistakes,
16:34
we're
16:35
bad
16:35
if
16:35
we
16:35
make
16:35
mistakes,
16:35
we're
16:36
failures
16:36
if
16:36
we
16:36
make
16:36
mistakes.
16:37
Like
16:37
that
16:37
kind
16:37
of
16:37
thing.
16:38
Yeah.
16:43
I
16:44
promise
16:44
this
16:45
is
16:45
not
16:45
the
16:45
approach
16:46
that
16:46
I
16:46
take
16:47
with
16:47
my
16:47
learners,
16:47
but
16:48
the
16:48
first
16:48
thought
16:50
I
16:50
had
16:51
was
16:51
actually
16:51
my
16:52
son,
16:52
my
16:53
oldest
16:53
son.
16:53
So
16:54
it's
16:54
not
16:54
a
16:54
paternalistic
16:55
parental
16:56
relationship.
16:57
But
16:58
again,
16:58
I
16:58
Shared
16:59
that
16:59
we
17:00
say
17:00
above
17:00
all
17:01
we
17:01
need
17:01
to
17:01
be
17:02
kind,
17:02
that
17:03
that's
17:03
our
17:03
family
17:04
value.
17:05
Well,
17:06
I
17:06
think
17:06
one
17:06
of
17:06
the
17:06
things
17:07
that
17:07
my
17:07
wife
17:07
and
17:08
I
17:08
have
17:08
really
17:08
tried
17:09
to
17:09
do
17:09
is
17:09
speak
17:10
identity
17:11
into
17:11
our
17:11
son.
17:13
Our
17:13
oldest
17:13
is
17:14
five,
17:15
very
17:15
conscientious.
17:17
He
17:17
is
17:18
a
17:19
incredibly
17:20
emotionally
17:21
attuned
17:22
person.
17:22
He
17:22
can
17:23
read
17:23
emotions,
17:25
he
17:26
can
17:26
see
17:26
emotions
17:27
on
17:27
someone's
17:27
face
17:27
or
17:28
in
17:28
their
17:28
words
17:28
and
17:29
just
17:29
know
17:29
exactly.
17:30
But
17:30
he
17:30
takes
17:31
on
17:31
of
17:31
that
17:31
emotion.
17:32
Yeah.
17:32
And
17:33
what
17:33
we
17:34
say
17:34
all
17:34
the
17:34
time
17:34
is
17:35
when
17:35
he
17:35
does
17:36
something
17:36
like
17:38
mimic
17:38
his
17:38
younger
17:39
brother,
17:39
the
17:40
toddler
17:41
little
17:42
blurts
17:42
out
17:43
something
17:43
rude,
17:44
we
17:44
say,
17:45
jack,
17:46
you're
17:47
very
17:47
kind.
17:48
And
17:48
what
17:48
you
17:48
said
17:49
just
17:49
now
17:49
was
17:49
not
17:50
kind,
17:51
but
17:52
you
17:52
are
17:52
a
17:52
kind
17:53
person.
17:53
So
17:54
do
17:54
you
17:54
know,
17:55
do
17:55
you
17:55
know
17:57
how
17:57
that's
17:58
wrong
17:58
or
17:58
do
17:58
you
17:58
see
17:59
why
17:59
that's
17:59
wrong?
18:00
Yeah.
18:01
And
18:01
I
18:01
think
18:01
that
18:02
has
18:03
really
18:03
been
18:05
important
18:05
for
18:05
us
18:06
to
18:06
be
18:06
able
18:06
to
18:07
acknowledge
18:08
that
18:09
this
18:10
does
18:10
not
18:10
define
18:11
you.
18:12
This
18:12
mistake,
18:14
this
18:15
incident,
18:16
this
18:16
event,
18:17
however
18:17
egregious,
18:19
is
18:19
not
18:21
your
18:21
identity.
18:23
Yeah.
18:23
And
18:23
I
18:23
think
18:24
a
18:24
lot
18:24
of
18:24
that
18:24
mindset
18:26
applies
18:26
to
18:26
things
18:27
outside
18:27
of
18:27
feedback.
18:28
Right.
18:28
Like
18:28
how
18:29
many
18:29
of
18:29
us
18:29
fail
18:30
an
18:30
exam,
18:30
a
18:30
board
18:31
exam,
18:31
or
18:32
the
18:32
MCAT
18:32
or
18:33
like
18:33
bomb
18:34
something,
18:34
and
18:34
that
18:35
our
18:35
identity
18:35
is
18:36
like,
18:36
I
18:36
will
18:36
never
18:37
be
18:37
a
18:37
physician,
18:38
I
18:38
will
18:38
never
18:38
be
18:39
a
18:40
board
18:41
certified
18:41
blank.
18:43
I
18:44
mean
18:44
we
18:44
take
18:44
that
18:44
on.
18:44
It's
18:45
kind
18:45
of
18:45
like
18:45
the
18:45
medical
18:45
personality,
18:46
right?
18:47
Yeah.
18:49
It's
18:49
so
18:49
deeply
18:49
ingrained
18:50
that
18:50
like
18:52
that
18:53
making
18:53
mistakes
18:54
is
18:54
outside
18:55
of
18:55
what
18:55
is
18:55
an
18:56
acceptable
18:56
part
18:56
of
18:57
our
18:57
identity
18:57
as
18:58
physicians.
18:59
And
19:00
you
19:00
kind
19:00
of
19:01
get
19:01
it
19:01
in
19:01
that,
19:02
of
19:02
course,
19:03
the
19:03
collective
19:04
goal
19:04
is
19:04
to
19:04
make
19:05
as
19:05
few
19:05
errors
19:06
as
19:06
possible.
19:07
Like,
19:07
you
19:07
know,
19:07
especially
19:08
that
19:08
impact
19:08
patients.
19:09
Of
19:09
course.
19:10
And
19:12
we
19:12
are
19:12
human
19:13
and
19:14
we
19:14
are
19:14
learning.
19:15
And
19:15
even
19:15
if
19:16
we're
19:16
at
19:16
the
19:16
top
19:16
of
19:16
our
19:17
game,
19:18
errors
19:18
will
19:18
happen,
19:19
surprises
19:19
will
19:20
happen,
19:20
flukes
19:20
happen.
19:21
Right.
19:22
So
19:23
how
19:23
do
19:23
you
19:23
talk
19:23
about
19:23
mistakes
19:24
then
19:24
with
19:24
your
19:25
learners
19:25
directly?
19:29
Well,
19:30
I
19:30
think
19:30
the
19:30
mindset
19:30
is
19:31
progress
19:31
over
19:31
perfection.
19:33
You
19:34
can
19:34
strive
19:34
for
19:35
perfection,
19:36
but
19:36
you
19:36
should
19:38
expect
19:39
progress,
19:40
I
19:40
guess,
19:41
or
19:41
maybe
19:41
the
19:41
other
19:42
way
19:42
around.
19:44
But
19:45
I
19:45
think
19:46
the
19:46
number
19:47
one
19:47
thing
19:48
is
19:48
acknowledging
19:50
that.
19:52
Well,
19:54
just
19:54
from
19:54
a
19:54
mathematical
19:55
sense
19:55
and
19:55
semantics
19:57
that
19:57
words
19:57
do
19:57
matter.
19:58
Mistake
20:00
tells
20:00
me
20:01
intrinsically
20:02
or
20:03
inherently
20:04
that
20:04
it's
20:05
an
20:05
exception.
20:06
Because
20:07
if
20:07
you're
20:07
making
20:07
mistakes
20:08
all
20:08
the
20:08
time,
20:11
that's
20:11
a
20:11
problem.
20:12
So
20:13
that
20:13
is.
20:13
Now
20:15
that's
20:15
like
20:15
you.
20:16
If
20:16
you're
20:16
making
20:16
mistakes,
20:17
the
20:17
majority
20:18
of
20:18
the
20:18
time,
20:19
something
20:20
is
20:20
very
20:21
wrong
20:21
globally.
20:24
But
20:24
when
20:24
I
20:24
say
20:25
mistake,
20:26
you
20:27
90
20:27
to
20:28
99%
20:29
of
20:29
the
20:30
time
20:30
are
20:30
like
20:30
this.
20:31
This
20:31
was
20:32
erroneous,
20:33
anomalous,
20:34
this
20:34
was
20:35
exceptional.
20:37
I
20:37
think
20:37
that
20:38
is
20:38
a
20:38
way
20:38
to
20:39
say
20:41
this
20:41
is
20:41
something
20:42
that
20:42
is,
20:44
I
20:44
Want
20:44
to
20:44
be
20:45
a
20:45
one
20:45
off
20:45
and
20:46
how
20:46
do
20:46
we
20:46
progress
20:46
from
20:47
here?
20:48
So
20:48
one
20:48
of
20:48
the
20:49
ways
20:50
that
20:50
I
20:51
like
20:51
to
20:51
do
20:51
it
20:52
is
20:52
again,
20:53
speak
20:53
identity.
20:54
Hey,
20:54
you
20:54
are
20:55
usually
20:55
very
20:55
diligent.
20:57
One
20:57
of
20:57
the
20:57
things
20:58
I've
20:59
really
20:59
appreciated
21:00
is
21:00
how
21:00
on
21:01
top
21:01
of
21:01
things
21:01
you
21:01
are.
21:03
And
21:03
you
21:04
really
21:04
missed
21:04
some
21:04
things
21:04
today.
21:08
Tell
21:08
me
21:09
about
21:09
that.
21:10
Is
21:10
something
21:10
different?
21:11
Is
21:12
there
21:12
something
21:12
I
21:12
can
21:12
help
21:13
with?
21:14
Point
21:15
it
21:15
out.
21:17
And
21:18
it's
21:19
not
21:19
the
21:19
feedback
21:20
sandwich.
21:21
It's
21:21
not.
21:21
You
21:22
are
21:22
good,
21:23
but
21:23
you
21:23
did
21:24
bad,
21:24
but
21:25
you
21:25
are
21:25
good.
21:26
The
21:27
sandwich,
21:27
that's
21:27
a
21:28
classic.
21:29
The
21:29
sandwich
21:29
sucks.
21:29
Actually,
21:30
there's
21:30
a
21:30
study
21:30
of
21:31
third
21:31
year
21:31
medical
21:31
students.
21:32
They
21:32
examined
21:33
the
21:34
traditional
21:35
sandwich.
21:35
Good,
21:36
bad,
21:36
good
21:37
or
21:38
praise.
21:38
Constructive
21:39
praise.
21:41
They
21:41
examined
21:42
the
21:42
open
21:42
face
21:43
sandwich,
21:44
constructive
21:45
criticism
21:47
and
21:47
then
21:47
praise,
21:48
and
21:48
then
21:48
they
21:49
just
21:49
did
21:49
the
21:50
naked
21:50
sandwich,
21:50
which
21:51
is
21:51
essentially
21:51
just
21:51
constructive
21:52
criticism.
21:53
And
21:54
interestingly,
21:55
medical
21:55
students
21:56
thought
21:56
that
21:57
perceived
21:59
that
21:59
the
22:00
sandwich
22:00
was
22:00
better.
22:02
They
22:02
perceived
22:03
that
22:03
the
22:03
more
22:03
breading
22:04
there
22:04
is,
22:05
the
22:06
better
22:06
tolerated
22:07
the
22:07
feedback.
22:07
That
22:08
was
22:08
their
22:08
perception.
22:09
But
22:09
when
22:09
they
22:09
looked
22:10
at
22:10
actual
22:11
assessments,
22:12
it
22:12
didn't
22:13
change
22:13
outcomes.
22:14
So
22:14
the
22:15
perception
22:15
is
22:16
that,
22:16
oh,
22:17
this
22:17
feedback
22:17
is
22:18
more
22:18
effective,
22:18
it's
22:19
more
22:19
tolerable,
22:19
but.
22:20
But
22:20
it's
22:20
actually
22:21
not
22:21
effective.
22:23
It
22:23
doesn't
22:24
change
22:25
how
22:26
well
22:26
the
22:26
message
22:27
is
22:27
received.
22:27
If
22:27
you're
22:28
sandwiching
22:28
or
22:28
not
22:29
sandwiching.
22:30
Is
22:30
that
22:30
what
22:30
you
22:30
mean?
22:32
I
22:32
guess
22:33
it
22:33
is.
22:36
I
22:36
guess
22:39
the
22:39
kind
22:40
of
22:40
addendum
22:41
would
22:41
be
22:43
it
22:43
is
22:43
received
22:44
better,
22:45
but
22:46
it's
22:46
not
22:46
implemented
22:48
or
22:48
it
22:48
doesn't
22:48
affect
22:49
change
22:50
any
22:51
better.
22:52
Interesting.
22:53
Which
22:53
ultimately
22:54
isn't
22:55
that,
22:56
isn't
22:57
that
22:57
half
22:57
of
22:57
the
22:57
feedback.
22:58
Half
22:58
of
22:58
the
22:59
feedback
22:59
is,
22:59
as
22:59
you
22:59
said,
23:00
relational
23:01
communication.
23:01
And
23:02
I
23:02
want
23:02
to
23:02
be
23:02
able
23:02
to
23:03
build,
23:04
even
23:04
if
23:04
the
23:04
feedback
23:05
isn't
23:06
implemented,
23:08
it's
23:08
contributing
23:08
to
23:09
our
23:09
relationship
23:10
and
23:10
building
23:10
trust.
23:11
The
23:11
foundation
23:11
of
23:12
trust.
23:12
Credibility.
23:13
Yes.
23:13
I
23:14
think
23:14
that's
23:14
half
23:14
of
23:14
it.
23:15
The
23:15
other
23:15
half
23:15
though
23:16
is
23:16
when
23:16
I'm
23:16
giving
23:16
feedback,
23:17
I
23:17
want
23:17
to
23:18
help
23:18
affect
23:18
change.
23:20
Yes.
23:20
Right
23:21
at
23:21
the
23:21
end
23:22
of
23:22
the
23:22
day.
23:23
So
23:23
I
23:24
think
23:24
we
23:24
need
23:24
both
23:24
to
23:24
support
23:25
them.
23:25
Yeah,
23:26
yeah.
23:26
So
23:27
what
23:29
are
23:29
you
23:29
as
23:30
a
23:30
feedback
23:31
passionate
23:31
person,
23:32
are
23:32
you
23:33
aware
23:33
then
23:33
of
23:35
like
23:35
methodologies
23:36
of
23:37
giving
23:37
feedback
23:37
that
23:38
appear
23:38
to
23:38
actually
23:40
support
23:40
the
23:40
person
23:40
to
23:41
make
23:41
change?
23:41
Like
23:42
what
23:42
it's
23:43
maybe
23:43
what
23:43
they're.
23:43
They're
23:44
hearing
23:44
it,
23:44
but
23:44
also
23:44
like
23:45
activating
23:45
them
23:46
to
23:46
make
23:46
changes
23:47
more
23:47
effectively?
23:48
Yes,
23:48
yes,
23:49
yes.
23:49
The
23:50
coolest
23:50
thing.
23:51
The
23:51
absolute
23:51
coolest
23:52
thing.
23:53
I
23:53
read
23:54
this
23:54
in
23:54
Adam
23:55
Grant's
23:55
book
23:56
Hidden
23:56
Potential.
23:57
Oh,
23:57
cool.
23:58
I
23:59
love
23:59
Adam
23:59
Grant.
24:00
He
24:00
is
24:00
to
24:01
me
24:02
one
24:02
of
24:02
the
24:02
foremost
24:03
thought
24:03
leaders.
24:04
He's
24:04
a
24:04
organizational
24:05
psychologist
24:06
at
24:06
Wharton,
24:08
author,
24:09
and
24:09
I
24:09
think
24:09
he
24:09
was
24:10
the
24:10
youngest
24:10
tenured
24:11
professor
24:11
at
24:12
Wharton.
24:13
Wow.
24:14
Ever.
24:15
He.
24:15
He
24:16
explains
24:17
this
24:17
Incredible
24:18
study.
24:19
They
24:20
had
24:20
kids
24:22
in
24:23
the
24:23
Midwest
24:24
somewhere.
24:25
They
24:26
had
24:26
kids
24:28
across
24:28
the
24:29
racial
24:30
spectrum.
24:33
They.
24:34
They
24:34
thought
24:34
that,
24:35
well,
24:35
you
24:36
know,
24:36
there
24:36
are
24:37
levels
24:37
of
24:37
mistrust,
24:38
and
24:38
mistrust
24:39
affects
24:40
feedback.
24:41
Like,
24:41
if
24:42
I
24:42
don't
24:42
trust
24:42
the
24:42
person
24:43
giving
24:43
me
24:43
feedback,
24:44
I'm
24:44
not
24:44
going
24:44
to
24:44
take
24:45
it
24:46
as
24:46
well
24:46
and.
24:46
Or
24:47
implement
24:47
it
24:47
as
24:47
effectively.
24:49
So
24:49
they
24:49
accounted
24:50
for
24:50
that
24:51
and
24:51
they
24:51
said,
24:51
well,
24:52
we
24:52
have
24:53
this
24:53
effect,
24:53
like,
24:54
can
24:54
we
24:54
do
24:54
something
24:55
about
24:55
the
24:55
feedback?
24:56
So
24:56
they
24:56
tested
24:57
something
24:57
they
24:57
called
24:57
wise
24:58
feedback.
24:59
They
24:59
had,
25:00
I
25:00
believe,
25:00
seventh
25:00
graders
25:01
write
25:01
an
25:01
essay
25:02
about
25:02
their
25:02
hero.
25:03
And
25:04
the
25:05
typical
25:05
school
25:06
assignment
25:06
was
25:07
write
25:07
the
25:08
essay
25:08
and
25:08
then
25:08
submit
25:09
it
25:09
for
25:10
revisions
25:11
and
25:11
the
25:12
teacher
25:12
will
25:12
revise
25:13
it
25:13
and
25:13
give
25:13
it
25:13
back
25:13
to
25:14
you.
25:14
That's
25:14
all
25:15
they
25:15
had
25:15
to
25:15
do.
25:16
Optionally,
25:17
they
25:17
could
25:17
give
25:17
in
25:18
a
25:18
second
25:18
draft
25:19
based
25:19
on
25:19
the
25:19
teacher's
25:20
comments,
25:21
but
25:21
they
25:21
did
25:22
not
25:22
have
25:22
to.
25:22
It
25:22
was
25:23
just,
25:24
do
25:24
they
25:24
turn
25:25
in
25:25
their
25:25
assignment?
25:26
And
25:27
the
25:27
intervention
25:28
was
25:28
kind
25:29
of
25:29
genius.
25:30
Two
25:30
sticky
25:31
notes,
25:31
randomized
25:33
and
25:34
I
25:34
think
25:34
blinded.
25:34
It
25:35
was
25:35
double
25:35
blinded.
25:36
The
25:37
first
25:37
control
25:38
was
25:38
I
25:38
am
25:39
giving
25:39
you
25:39
these
25:40
comments
25:41
as
25:41
feedback
25:42
for
25:42
your
25:42
paper.
25:43
That's
25:43
it.
25:44
And
25:44
it
25:44
was
25:44
just
25:44
a
25:45
sticky
25:45
note
25:45
that
25:45
they
25:45
put
25:45
on
25:46
with
25:46
the
25:46
teacher's
25:47
red
25:47
pen.
25:48
The
25:48
other
25:48
sticky
25:49
note
25:49
was
25:49
the
25:49
wise
25:50
feedback
25:50
intervention,
25:51
which
25:51
was
25:52
19
25:52
words.
25:52
And
25:53
Daniel
25:53
Pink,
25:53
Adam
25:54
Grant
25:54
have
25:54
talked
25:54
about
25:55
these,
25:55
like,
25:55
magical
25:56
19
25:56
words.
25:57
I
25:58
am
25:58
giving
25:58
you
25:58
this
25:59
feedback
26:00
because
26:00
I
26:01
have
26:01
very
26:01
high
26:02
expectations,
26:03
but
26:04
I
26:04
know
26:05
that
26:05
you
26:05
will
26:06
reach
26:06
them
26:09
or
26:09
I
26:10
am
26:10
confident
26:10
that
26:11
you
26:11
will
26:11
reach
26:11
them.
26:12
And
26:12
what
26:12
did
26:12
they
26:13
find?
26:13
They
26:14
found
26:14
that
26:15
the
26:15
students
26:16
who
26:16
got
26:16
the
26:16
wise
26:17
feedback,
26:18
regardless
26:19
of
26:19
race,
26:21
were
26:21
more
26:22
likely
26:23
to
26:24
turn
26:25
in
26:25
a
26:25
second
26:25
draft.
26:27
So
26:27
they
26:27
were
26:28
more
26:28
likely
26:28
to
26:28
engage
26:29
with
26:29
the
26:30
feedback.
26:32
Yeah,
26:33
but
26:33
that's
26:33
not
26:33
it.
26:34
The
26:34
second
26:34
part
26:35
was
26:35
not
26:35
only
26:36
were
26:36
they
26:36
more
26:36
likely
26:36
to
26:36
turn
26:37
in
26:38
objectively,
26:39
by
26:39
a
26:39
rubric,
26:40
they
26:40
were
26:41
better.
26:42
The
26:43
people
26:43
who
26:44
turned
26:44
in
26:44
the
26:44
second
26:44
draft
26:45
were
26:45
better
26:45
when
26:45
they
26:45
got
26:46
wise
26:46
feedback.
26:46
So
26:47
it
26:47
not
26:47
only
26:48
affected
26:48
the
26:48
engagement
26:49
with
26:49
the
26:49
feedback,
26:50
but
26:50
it
26:50
actually
26:50
affected
26:50
change.
26:52
So,
26:52
wow,
26:54
like,
26:54
it's.
26:55
That
26:55
blew
26:56
my
26:56
mind
26:58
because
26:58
like,
26:58
the,
26:58
the
26:59
thought
26:59
is
26:59
that,
26:59
like,
27:00
again,
27:00
all
27:00
these
27:00
studies
27:00
are
27:01
perception,
27:01
right?
27:01
The
27:02
recipient
27:03
perceives
27:04
better.
27:04
Oh,
27:04
the
27:04
sandwich
27:05
is
27:05
so
27:05
nice.
27:06
Oh,
27:06
like,
27:07
oh,
27:07
Dr.
27:07
Tran
27:08
is
27:09
so
27:09
kind
27:10
to
27:10
give
27:10
me
27:10
feedback.
27:12
But
27:13
does
27:13
it
27:13
do
27:13
anything?
27:14
Yeah,
27:15
this,
27:16
this
27:16
change
27:17
and
27:18
cause.
27:18
Cause
27:19
them
27:19
to
27:20
actually
27:20
improve.
27:23
I
27:23
also
27:23
wonder,
27:24
I
27:24
would
27:24
maybe
27:24
not
27:25
in
27:25
that
27:25
study,
27:25
but
27:25
like,
27:26
if,
27:26
if
27:27
someone
27:27
said
27:27
that
27:27
to
27:28
me,
27:29
I
27:29
would
27:29
also
27:29
feel
27:30
good.
27:30
Like,
27:31
I
27:31
wouldn't
27:31
then
27:32
be
27:32
like,
27:32
what
27:32
a
27:32
meanie.
27:33
Like
27:33
that.
27:33
To
27:34
me,
27:34
in
27:34
some
27:34
ways
27:35
it's.
27:35
It's
27:36
a.
27:37
I
27:37
don't
27:38
even
27:38
think
27:38
it's
27:38
a
27:38
compliment
27:38
or
27:39
praise,
27:39
but
27:39
like,
27:40
it's
27:40
it's
27:40
an
27:40
affirmative,
27:42
encouraging
27:43
coaching.
27:44
Like,
27:45
it's
27:45
speaking
27:45
to
27:45
your
27:46
belief
27:46
in
27:46
the
27:46
other
27:47
person
27:47
to
27:47
grow.
27:48
Like,
27:48
to
27:49
me,
27:49
that
27:50
can
27:50
also
27:50
absolutely
27:51
be
27:51
a
27:51
relationship
27:52
builder.
27:53
But
27:53
that
27:53
actually
27:55
isn't
27:56
just
27:56
to
27:56
soothe,
27:57
but
27:57
is
27:58
to
27:59
engage.
28:00
But
28:00
like,
28:00
it
28:01
still
28:01
feels
28:01
like
28:01
a
28:02
very
28:02
like,
28:02
positive,
28:02
relational
28:03
thing
28:03
to
28:03
say
28:03
to
28:04
a
28:04
person.
28:04
Did
28:05
they,
28:05
like,
28:05
look
28:06
at
28:06
perception
28:06
of
28:07
the
28:07
teacher?
28:08
You
28:08
know?
28:09
Yeah,
28:09
I
28:10
don't
28:10
know.
28:10
I
28:10
didn't,
28:11
I
28:11
didn't
28:11
look
28:11
at
28:11
the
28:12
discussion
28:12
as
28:12
much
28:13
I
28:13
should.
28:14
But
28:16
when
28:17
you
28:17
say
28:17
that,
28:18
I
28:18
think
28:18
to
28:18
myself,
28:19
it's
28:19
promoting,
28:20
not
28:21
placating.
28:22
I'm
28:22
not
28:23
just.
28:23
Yes.
28:23
I'm
28:23
not
28:24
just
28:24
placating
28:24
you
28:24
and
28:25
saying,
28:25
you
28:25
did
28:25
like,
28:26
here's
28:26
your
28:27
feedback.
28:27
You
28:27
did
28:27
great.
28:28
Good
28:28
job.
28:29
Yeah.
28:30
There's
28:31
nothing
28:31
meaningful
28:31
about.
28:32
I'm
28:33
investing
28:33
in
28:34
you.
28:34
Hey,
28:35
yeah.
28:36
I
28:36
have
28:36
high
28:37
standards
28:37
of
28:37
you,
28:38
I
28:38
have
28:38
high
28:38
expectations.
28:40
But
28:41
I
28:42
also
28:42
promote,
28:42
I
28:43
encourage,
28:43
I
28:43
empower.
28:45
But
28:46
the
28:46
reason
28:47
it
28:47
almost
28:47
is
28:47
like
28:48
intrinsically
28:48
in
28:48
there,
28:49
the
28:49
reason
28:50
why
28:50
is
28:50
because
28:51
I
28:52
know
28:53
that
28:53
you
28:53
have
28:53
the
28:53
potential
28:54
for
28:54
better.
28:55
I
28:55
know
28:57
that
28:57
you
28:57
can
28:58
do
28:58
better.
29:00
I'm
29:00
confident
29:01
that
29:01
you
29:01
can
29:02
do
29:02
better.
29:03
And
29:03
then
29:03
I
29:03
think
29:03
to
29:04
supplement
29:04
that
29:05
feedback
29:06
and
29:06
I'll
29:07
help
29:07
you
29:08
get
29:08
better.
29:08
Right.
29:09
Not
29:09
just
29:10
by
29:10
saying
29:10
this,
29:10
but
29:10
I'm
29:11
going
29:11
to
29:11
help
29:11
you
29:11
achieve.
29:12
I'm
29:12
going
29:13
to
29:13
help
29:13
you
29:13
meet
29:13
those
29:14
high
29:14
expectations.
29:15
Yeah.
29:16
Oh,
29:17
that's
29:17
beautiful.
29:19
It's
29:19
really
29:19
good.
29:21
So
29:21
after
29:22
reading
29:22
that,
29:24
have
29:24
you,
29:24
you
29:24
know,
29:25
been
29:25
experimenting
29:26
with
29:26
such
29:26
approaches
29:27
with
29:27
your
29:28
learners?
29:28
Like,
29:28
what
29:28
does
29:29
that
29:29
look
29:29
like
29:29
for
29:29
you?
29:31
Has
29:31
that
29:31
changed
29:31
how
29:32
you've
29:32
been
29:32
giving
29:32
feedback?
29:33
Yeah,
29:36
I
29:37
tweak
29:38
it
29:38
slightly
29:39
and
29:39
I
29:39
kind
29:39
of
29:40
do
29:40
it
29:40
in
29:40
a.
29:42
I
29:42
do
29:42
it
29:42
in
29:42
a
29:42
way
29:42
where
29:43
they
29:43
know,
29:43
like,
29:44
it's
29:44
kind
29:44
of
29:44
like
29:44
with
29:46
a
29:46
wink
29:46
and
29:47
a
29:47
smile.
29:47
I
29:47
say,
29:49
hey,
29:51
do
29:51
you
29:51
want
29:52
to
29:52
be
29:52
good
29:52
enough?
29:53
Are
29:54
you
29:54
okay
29:54
with
29:54
being
29:54
good
29:54
enough?
29:55
And
29:55
that's
29:55
kind
29:55
of
29:56
the
29:56
wink.
29:56
And
29:56
they're
29:57
like,
29:57
no.
29:59
I
29:59
was
30:00
like,
30:01
so
30:01
what
30:01
do
30:01
you
30:01
want
30:01
to
30:01
do?
30:02
What
30:02
do
30:02
you
30:02
want
30:02
to
30:02
be?
30:03
Like,
30:03
what
30:03
kind
30:03
of
30:03
doctor
30:04
do
30:04
you
30:04
want
30:04
to
30:04
be?
30:04
What
30:04
kind
30:05
of
30:06
endoscopist
30:06
do
30:07
you
30:07
want
30:07
to
30:07
be?
30:07
I
30:08
want
30:08
to
30:08
be
30:08
great.
30:09
Okay,
30:10
you
30:11
want
30:11
to
30:11
strive
30:11
for
30:11
better?
30:12
Good
30:12
enough
30:12
is
30:12
not
30:13
good
30:13
enough
30:13
for
30:13
you.
30:14
You
30:14
don't
30:14
want
30:14
to
30:14
just
30:14
be
30:14
like,
30:15
eh,
30:15
my
30:15
doctor
30:16
is
30:16
good
30:16
enough.
30:17
No,
30:18
I
30:18
want
30:18
to
30:18
be
30:18
really
30:18
good.
30:19
I
30:19
want
30:19
to
30:19
be
30:19
excellent.
30:20
Okay,
30:21
great.
30:21
Start
30:22
there,
30:24
Start
30:24
there.
30:25
We
30:25
are
30:25
now
30:26
on
30:26
the
30:26
same
30:26
page
30:27
because
30:28
for.
30:29
And
30:29
if
30:29
people
30:29
kind
30:30
of
30:30
look
30:30
at
30:30
me,
30:31
you
30:31
know,
30:31
and
30:31
sometimes
30:32
it's
30:32
not,
30:32
it
30:33
doesn't
30:33
land
30:34
right
30:34
away.
30:35
And
30:35
I'll
30:35
just
30:35
be
30:35
like,
30:36
well,
30:38
if
30:38
you
30:39
and
30:39
I
30:40
Kind
30:40
of
30:40
step
30:40
out
30:41
of
30:41
the
30:41
conversation
30:41
a
30:42
little
30:42
bit
30:42
and
30:42
I
30:42
get
30:43
a
30:43
little
30:43
meta
30:43
and
30:44
I
30:44
say,
30:45
the
30:45
reason
30:45
why
30:46
I
30:46
ask
30:46
is
30:47
if
30:47
you
30:47
want
30:47
to
30:47
be
30:48
good
30:48
enough,
30:48
what
30:48
you're
30:48
doing
30:49
is
30:49
probably
30:49
going
30:49
to
30:49
get
30:49
you
30:50
to
30:50
good
30:50
enough.
30:51
I
30:52
can
30:52
give
30:52
you
30:53
feedback,
30:53
I
30:53
can
30:54
help
30:54
get
30:55
you,
30:56
I
30:57
can
30:57
help
30:57
get
30:57
you
30:58
to
30:58
where
30:58
you
30:58
want
30:58
to
30:58
go,
30:58
but
30:59
it's
30:59
really
31:00
where
31:00
do
31:00
you
31:00
want
31:00
to
31:01
go?
31:01
And
31:01
it's
31:02
eliciting
31:02
a
31:02
little
31:02
bit
31:03
of
31:03
their
31:03
goals.
31:03
Because
31:06
some
31:06
people
31:07
don't
31:07
want
31:07
to
31:07
be
31:08
excellent
31:09
in
31:09
that
31:09
domain.
31:10
And
31:10
these
31:10
are
31:10
domain
31:11
specific,
31:11
right?
31:12
Yeah,
31:13
I
31:13
say
31:13
that
31:14
broadly
31:14
overall,
31:15
but
31:15
I
31:15
think
31:15
it's
31:16
very
31:16
important
31:16
to
31:16
say,
31:17
look,
31:19
if
31:20
you
31:20
are
31:20
a
31:20
clinician,
31:22
do
31:22
you
31:23
need
31:23
to
31:23
have
31:23
advanced
31:24
suturing
31:24
skills
31:25
and
31:25
know
31:25
how
31:25
to
31:25
close
31:25
an
31:26
abdomen?
31:26
No.
31:27
So
31:27
you're
31:27
going
31:27
to
31:27
be
31:27
fine.
31:28
Just
31:28
be
31:28
good
31:29
enough
31:29
to
31:29
close
31:30
in
31:30
your
31:30
surgery
31:31
rotation
31:31
as
31:31
a
31:31
medical
31:32
student.
31:32
Right.
31:32
If
31:33
you
31:33
are
31:33
a,
31:34
look,
31:35
I'm
31:35
going
31:35
to
31:35
be
31:35
a
31:37
uber
31:38
specialist
31:39
in
31:39
this
31:39
area.
31:40
Endoscopy
31:41
is
31:41
a
31:41
huge
31:42
part
31:42
of
31:43
your
31:43
job,
31:43
but
31:43
it's
31:44
only
31:44
a
31:44
kind
31:45
of
31:45
cursory
31:45
job
31:46
of
31:46
mine.
31:47
I
31:47
don't
31:47
need
31:47
to
31:48
be
31:48
excellent.
31:49
Good
31:49
enough
31:50
for
31:50
my
31:50
patients
31:51
is,
31:52
okay,
31:53
great.
31:53
I
31:53
don't
31:53
need
31:53
to
31:54
push
31:54
to
31:54
higher,
31:55
higher,
31:55
higher,
31:56
higher
31:56
standards
31:57
so
31:57
I
31:57
can
31:57
level
31:58
the
31:58
expectation
31:59
a
31:59
little
31:59
bit.
32:00
So
32:01
I
32:02
start
32:02
with
32:02
that.
32:03
What
32:03
is
32:03
the
32:03
mutual
32:04
goal?
32:05
Is
32:05
it
32:06
excellent?
32:06
And
32:07
then,
32:08
all
32:08
right,
32:08
well,
32:08
I'm
32:09
going
32:09
to
32:09
hold
32:09
you
32:09
to
32:10
a
32:10
high
32:10
standard.
32:11
I'm
32:11
going
32:11
to
32:11
have
32:12
high
32:12
expectations.
32:14
But
32:14
I
32:15
know
32:15
that
32:15
A,
32:16
you
32:16
have
32:16
the
32:16
motivation
32:18
to
32:20
rise
32:21
to
32:21
that
32:22
standard
32:23
and
32:23
meet
32:24
those
32:24
expectations
32:25
and
32:27
you
32:27
have
32:27
the
32:27
potential
32:28
to.
32:29
So
32:29
you
32:29
have
32:29
the
32:29
desire
32:30
and
32:30
the
32:30
potential.
32:31
And
32:31
now
32:32
let
32:32
me
32:32
equip
32:32
you
32:33
so
32:33
together
32:35
we
32:35
can
32:35
get
32:35
there.
32:37
I
32:38
actually
32:38
hear
32:38
like
32:39
multiple
32:40
really
32:40
like
32:40
important
32:41
points
32:41
in,
32:41
in
32:42
how
32:42
you've
32:42
molded
32:43
and
32:43
shared
32:43
it.
32:44
One
32:44
piece
32:45
of
32:45
it
32:45
I
32:45
think
32:45
of
32:45
that
32:46
I
32:46
think
32:46
can
32:46
get
32:46
in
32:46
a
32:46
lot
32:46
of
32:46
people's
32:47
way
32:47
is
32:48
if
32:48
as
32:49
the
32:49
feedback
32:50
giver,
32:52
we
32:52
make
32:53
assumptions
32:53
about
32:54
what
32:54
someone
32:55
else's
32:55
goals
32:55
or
32:56
motivations
32:56
is.
32:57
Or
32:57
it's
32:58
like,
32:58
I'm
32:58
gonna
32:58
have
32:59
the
32:59
same
32:59
expectations
33:00
of
33:00
every
33:00
person
33:01
and
33:02
almost
33:02
like
33:02
force
33:03
everyone
33:03
to
33:03
have
33:03
the
33:04
same
33:04
expectations
33:04
for
33:05
themselves.
33:05
Like
33:06
there's
33:06
certain
33:07
standards
33:07
where
33:07
it's
33:08
like,
33:08
like
33:08
literally
33:09
what's
33:09
good
33:09
enough?
33:09
What
33:10
is,
33:10
you
33:10
could
33:10
say
33:10
mediocre
33:11
or
33:11
like,
33:11
you
33:11
know,
33:12
what's
33:12
the
33:12
baseline?
33:13
That
33:13
means
33:13
you're
33:13
practicing
33:14
safe
33:14
care.
33:14
And
33:15
like
33:15
everyone's
33:15
got
33:15
to
33:15
reach
33:16
that.
33:16
Otherwise
33:16
maybe
33:17
they
33:17
needed
33:18
remediation
33:18
or
33:19
a
33:19
different
33:19
profession.
33:20
Right.
33:20
Like
33:20
that's
33:21
fine.
33:21
But
33:21
then
33:22
assuming
33:22
everyone's,
33:23
that's
33:23
like
33:24
say,
33:24
say
33:24
especially
33:25
someone
33:25
who
33:25
was
33:25
giving
33:26
Feedback
33:26
had
33:26
perfectionistic
33:27
tendencies,
33:28
was
33:28
like,
33:28
no
33:29
one's
33:29
allowed
33:29
to
33:29
make
33:29
a
33:30
mistake,
33:30
so
33:30
just
33:31
that
33:31
that
33:31
could
33:31
get
33:31
in
33:31
your
33:32
way.
33:32
Right?
33:33
And
33:33
so
33:33
what
33:33
your
33:33
approach
33:34
is
33:34
offering
33:34
is
33:35
like,
33:35
it's
33:36
actually,
33:36
I
33:37
can
33:37
have
33:37
expectations
33:38
and
33:38
I
33:38
can
33:38
make
33:38
an
33:39
assessment
33:39
of
33:39
someone's
33:39
skill
33:40
level
33:40
to
33:40
assume
33:41
how
33:41
well
33:41
they
33:41
could
33:42
do.
33:42
But
33:42
actually
33:43
just
33:43
if
33:43
not
33:44
more
33:44
important
33:44
is
33:44
like,
33:45
what
33:45
is
33:46
the
33:46
other
33:46
person's
33:47
goals,
33:47
what
33:48
motivates
33:48
them,
33:49
and
33:49
then
33:50
partnering
33:50
with
33:50
them
33:51
and
33:51
then.
33:52
And
33:52
tailoring
33:52
your
33:53
feedback
33:53
to
33:53
that.
33:54
I
33:54
can
33:55
actually
33:55
think
33:55
of
33:55
a
33:55
few
33:55
examples.
33:56
Like
33:56
when
33:56
I
33:56
was
33:57
in
33:57
residency,
33:57
one
33:58
of
33:58
the
33:58
best
33:58
things
33:59
that
33:59
happened
33:59
on
33:59
my,
33:59
like,
33:59
OB
34:00
rotation
34:01
was
34:01
the.
34:02
When
34:02
the
34:03
preceptors
34:03
would
34:03
ask
34:04
me,
34:04
like,
34:04
are
34:04
you
34:04
interested
34:05
in
34:05
like,
34:05
catching
34:06
babies
34:06
or
34:07
like
34:07
forever?
34:08
Or
34:08
are
34:08
you
34:08
interested
34:09
in
34:09
like,
34:09
getting
34:09
the
34:09
experience
34:10
so
34:10
you
34:10
know
34:10
how.
34:11
And
34:11
I
34:11
was
34:11
a
34:12
get
34:12
the
34:12
experience
34:12
please
34:13
person.
34:13
Like,
34:13
I
34:13
was
34:14
not
34:14
planning
34:14
to
34:14
do
34:14
OB
34:15
later
34:15
on.
34:16
I
34:16
wasn't
34:17
wasting
34:17
their
34:17
time.
34:18
They're
34:18
not
34:18
thinking
34:18
they
34:19
have
34:19
to
34:19
like,
34:19
you
34:20
know,
34:20
put.
34:20
Put
34:20
their
34:20
best
34:21
foot
34:21
forward
34:21
and
34:21
tell
34:22
me
34:22
and
34:22
teach
34:22
me
34:22
all
34:23
the
34:23
little
34:23
nuance.
34:23
They're
34:23
tired,
34:24
they're
34:24
overworked,
34:25
right?
34:25
Like,
34:25
they
34:25
could
34:26
then
34:26
tailor
34:27
their
34:27
teaching
34:28
and
34:28
experience
34:29
to
34:29
me
34:29
and
34:30
my
34:30
goals.
34:31
And
34:31
actually
34:31
then
34:31
it's
34:32
mutually
34:32
beneficial.
34:33
And
34:33
then
34:33
if
34:33
someone
34:33
else
34:34
comes
34:34
along
34:34
and
34:34
is
34:34
like,
34:34
I'm
34:35
going
34:35
to
34:35
be
34:35
your
34:35
future
34:35
colleague,
34:36
I
34:36
actually
34:36
want
34:36
to
34:36
be
34:36
one
34:36
of
34:37
you.
34:37
They're
34:37
going
34:37
to
34:38
put
34:38
a
34:38
different
34:38
kind
34:38
of
34:39
effort,
34:39
give
34:39
different
34:39
kinds
34:40
of
34:40
feedback,
34:40
and
34:41
they
34:41
know
34:41
it
34:41
will
34:42
be
34:42
effective
34:43
because
34:43
they
34:43
have
34:44
the
34:44
right,
34:45
you
34:45
know,
34:45
they're
34:45
planting
34:45
the
34:46
seed
34:46
in
34:46
the
34:46
right
34:46
kind
34:46
of
34:47
soil,
34:47
if
34:47
you
34:48
will.
34:49
I
34:49
just
34:49
think,
34:49
oh
34:50
my
34:50
gosh,
34:50
that's.
34:50
Something
34:51
to
34:51
really
34:51
consider,
34:52
right?
34:52
Like,
34:54
if
34:54
we
34:54
think
34:55
it's
34:55
going
34:55
to
34:55
be
34:55
the
34:55
same
34:56
for
34:56
every
34:56
person,
34:56
we've
34:57
missed
34:57
out
34:57
the
34:57
point
34:57
of
34:57
feedback.
34:58
Feedback
34:58
is
34:58
for
34:59
the
34:59
person
34:59
we're
34:59
giving
35:00
it
35:00
to,
35:01
right?
35:02
So
35:04
it's
35:04
in
35:04
service
35:05
of
35:05
them.
35:05
So
35:05
that
35:06
means
35:06
we
35:06
have
35:06
to
35:06
know
35:06
what
35:06
it
35:07
is
35:07
that
35:07
they
35:07
want
35:07
us
35:07
to
35:08
help
35:08
them
35:08
with.
35:11
The
35:13
operative
35:13
word
35:14
you're
35:14
saying
35:14
is
35:16
think
35:17
about
35:17
the
35:17
feed
35:17
in
35:18
feedback,
35:19
the
35:19
meal.
35:19
Everyone
35:20
has
35:20
different
35:20
tastes.
35:21
Oh,
35:22
that's
35:22
so
35:22
good.
35:23
I
35:23
love
35:23
an
35:23
analogy.
35:24
So
35:26
great.
35:29
I
35:29
think.
35:30
And
35:30
one
35:31
of
35:31
the
35:31
things
35:31
that
35:31
we're
35:31
talking
35:31
about
35:32
is
35:33
actually
35:33
the
35:34
biggest
35:34
implementation
35:36
practically
35:37
for
35:37
both
35:38
educators
35:38
and
35:39
learners
35:41
that
35:41
I
35:42
could
35:42
talk
35:42
about.
35:43
It
35:44
actually
35:44
happened
35:44
after
35:44
I
35:45
gave
35:45
a
35:45
grand
35:45
rounds
35:46
on
35:46
feedback.
35:47
One
35:47
of
35:47
the
35:47
questions
35:48
afterwards
35:50
pertain
35:50
to
35:51
one
35:51
of
35:51
the
35:51
kind
35:52
of
35:52
practical
35:52
tips
35:52
that
35:53
I
35:53
gave,
35:53
which
35:53
is
35:54
set
35:54
goals.
35:55
To
35:55
have
35:55
an
35:55
effective
35:56
feedback
35:57
conversation,
35:57
you
35:58
need
35:58
to
35:59
have
35:59
mutual
35:59
goals,
36:01
negotiate
36:01
mutual
36:02
goals.
36:02
So
36:02
I
36:02
told
36:03
learners,
36:03
like,
36:04
set
36:04
Goals.
36:05
I
36:05
told
36:06
educators,
36:06
try
36:07
to
36:07
elicit
36:07
goals
36:08
and
36:08
have
36:08
that
36:08
conversation
36:09
before.
36:09
And
36:10
one
36:10
of
36:10
the
36:10
residents
36:11
raised
36:11
their
36:11
hand
36:11
and
36:12
we
36:12
would
36:12
work
36:12
together
36:15
a
36:15
good
36:15
bit.
36:15
And
36:16
she
36:16
said,
36:16
hey,
36:18
I
36:18
love
36:18
this.
36:19
However,
36:20
practically
36:21
speaking,
36:23
we
36:23
can't
36:24
set
36:25
goals
36:25
when
36:25
we
36:26
don't
36:26
know
36:26
what
36:27
your
36:27
expectations
36:27
are.
36:28
Like,
36:28
we
36:28
don't
36:28
know
36:28
where
36:28
to
36:29
start
36:30
with
36:30
goals.
36:30
If
36:31
I'm
36:31
coming
36:31
on
36:32
as
36:32
someone
36:32
not
36:33
interested
36:33
in
36:33
GI
36:34
and
36:34
I'm
36:34
doing
36:34
a
36:34
GI
36:35
elective,
36:36
what's
36:37
a
36:37
reasonable
36:37
goal?
36:38
Like,
36:38
is
36:39
my
36:39
goal
36:39
too
36:39
lofty?
36:40
And
36:40
then
36:41
she's
36:41
like,
36:41
that
36:41
mutual
36:42
conversation
36:43
is
36:43
great
36:44
in
36:45
theory,
36:45
but
36:46
in
36:46
practice
36:46
it
36:46
doesn't
36:47
really
36:47
happen.
36:47
So
36:48
how
36:48
do
36:48
we
36:48
do
36:48
that?
36:49
And
36:49
I
36:49
thought
36:49
about
36:50
it
36:50
and
36:50
I
36:50
said,
36:51
that's
36:52
a
36:52
great
36:53
point.
36:54
So
36:54
what
36:54
I
36:54
have
36:55
started
36:55
doing
36:56
is
36:56
on
36:56
the
36:57
first
36:57
day
36:57
with
36:58
a
36:58
learner
36:59
and
37:00
usually
37:02
I
37:02
try
37:02
to
37:02
make
37:02
it
37:03
so
37:03
that
37:03
it's
37:03
like
37:03
for
37:03
the
37:03
day
37:04
together
37:04
or
37:05
for
37:05
the
37:05
week,
37:05
tailor
37:06
it
37:06
to
37:06
the
37:06
time
37:06
that
37:06
we're
37:07
going
37:07
to
37:07
have.
37:08
I
37:08
tell
37:08
them,
37:09
here
37:10
are
37:11
two
37:11
points
37:12
for
37:12
you
37:12
to
37:12
consider.
37:13
Here
37:14
are
37:14
my
37:14
minimum
37:15
expectations
37:16
for
37:16
someone
37:17
of
37:17
your
37:17
level.
37:19
Minimum
37:20
expectations.
37:20
So
37:21
let's
37:21
talk
37:21
about
37:21
a
37:21
resident
37:22
that
37:22
you
37:22
have.
37:22
Right.
37:24
Minimum
37:24
expectations
37:25
for
37:25
a
37:25
family
37:26
medicine
37:26
resident.
37:27
And
37:27
I'm
37:28
like,
37:28
these
37:28
are
37:29
bare
37:30
minimum
37:30
foundation.
37:31
None
37:31
of
37:31
this
37:31
is
37:32
groundbreaking.
37:33
You
37:33
should
37:33
be
37:33
able
37:34
to
37:34
talk
37:35
with
37:36
some
37:37
level
37:37
of
37:37
professionalism
37:39
and
37:39
politeness
37:40
to
37:40
a
37:41
patient.
37:41
You
37:41
should
37:41
say,
37:42
you
37:42
should
37:43
be
37:43
able
37:43
to
37:43
elicit
37:44
their
37:44
name.
37:45
You
37:45
should
37:45
be
37:45
able
37:46
to
37:46
say
37:47
why
37:47
they
37:47
are
37:48
coming
37:48
in
37:48
to
37:48
see
37:49
you.
37:49
You
37:49
should
37:50
be
37:50
able
37:50
to
37:50
close
37:51
the
37:51
encounter.
37:52
You
37:52
should
37:52
be
37:53
able
37:53
to
37:53
not
37:54
be
37:54
rude.
37:55
Like,
37:55
again,
37:56
we're
37:56
talking
37:56
about
37:56
bare
37:57
minimum.
37:57
But
37:57
if
37:58
I'm
37:58
tailoring
37:58
it
37:58
to
37:59
more
37:59
to.
37:59
I
37:59
usually
38:00
say
38:00
something
38:00
like
38:00
that.
38:00
To
38:01
say
38:01
like,
38:02
this
38:02
is
38:02
so
38:02
foundational
38:04
to
38:04
understand
38:04
where
38:05
I'm
38:05
coming
38:05
from.
38:05
And
38:06
then
38:06
I
38:06
say,
38:06
for
38:07
your
38:07
level,
38:07
I
38:08
expect
38:08
you
38:08
to
38:08
be
38:08
able
38:09
to
38:09
come
38:10
have
38:11
an
38:11
interview
38:12
that
38:12
doesn't
38:12
take
38:12
the
38:13
entire
38:13
visit.
38:14
Like
38:15
at
38:15
your
38:15
level
38:15
of
38:15
training,
38:16
if
38:16
you
38:16
have
38:17
a
38:17
20
38:17
minute
38:17
visit,
38:18
I
38:18
don't.
38:19
You
38:19
should
38:19
be
38:20
able
38:20
to
38:20
do
38:20
the
38:20
interview
38:21
in
38:21
at
38:21
least
38:21
75%
38:22
of
38:23
the
38:23
visit.
38:24
Five
38:24
minutes
38:24
for
38:25
education,
38:25
for
38:26
anticipatory
38:26
guidance,
38:27
whatever
38:27
it
38:27
is.
38:30
I
38:30
think
38:30
that
38:30
you
38:31
should
38:31
be
38:31
able
38:31
to
38:31
present
38:31
to
38:32
me
38:32
in
38:32
a
38:32
SOAP
38:33
format
38:34
with
38:36
some
38:36
logical
38:36
flow.
38:38
And
38:39
I
38:40
think
38:40
that
38:40
you
38:40
should
38:40
be
38:40
able
38:40
to
38:41
both
38:41
verbalize
38:42
it
38:42
and
38:42
then
38:42
document
38:42
it.
38:43
And
38:43
that's
38:43
it.
38:44
Foundational.
38:46
And
38:47
I
38:47
say,
38:48
is
38:49
that
38:49
fair?
38:50
They're
38:50
like,
38:50
yeah,
38:50
yeah.
38:51
I
38:51
mean,
38:51
duh,
38:52
right?
38:53
Usually
38:53
it's
38:54
so
38:54
foundational,
38:55
that's
38:56
not
38:56
a
38:56
surprise.
38:56
But
38:57
I'm
38:57
like,
38:57
is
38:57
that
38:58
fair
38:58
or
38:58
am
38:58
I
38:59
missing
38:59
the
38:59
mark?
38:59
Here,
39:00
right?
39:00
Yeah,
39:02
that's
39:03
the
39:03
first
39:03
step.
39:03
But
39:03
then
39:04
I
39:04
say,
39:04
let
39:05
me
39:05
tell
39:05
you
39:05
what
39:05
an
39:06
exemplary
39:08
resident
39:08
looks
39:09
like.
39:09
Let
39:09
me
39:09
tell
39:09
you
39:09
the
39:10
exemplar.
39:10
Now,
39:11
this
39:11
is
39:11
not
39:11
an
39:11
expectation,
39:13
and
39:14
I
39:14
clarify
39:14
that
39:15
this
39:15
is
39:15
not
39:15
my
39:15
expectation
39:16
of
39:16
you.
39:16
This
39:16
is
39:17
just
39:17
what
39:17
I
39:17
see
39:18
collectively
39:19
from
39:19
really
39:20
exceptional
39:21
residents.
39:22
They
39:22
are
39:22
anticipating
39:25
step
39:25
A
39:26
through
39:26
D.
39:27
This
39:27
is
39:28
my
39:28
plan
39:28
for
39:28
today.
39:28
But
39:29
if
39:29
this
39:29
fails,
39:29
I
39:30
want
39:30
them
39:30
to
39:30
come
39:30
back
39:30
in
39:31
a
39:31
month,
39:31
in
39:31
two
39:32
months,
39:32
if
39:32
this
39:33
is
39:33
my
39:33
next
39:33
step.
39:34
They're
39:34
thinking
39:34
about
39:35
that.
39:36
They
39:36
are
39:36
someone
39:37
who
39:38
owns
39:39
the
39:39
patient.
39:39
As
39:40
in
39:40
they
39:41
are
39:41
saying,
39:41
hey,
39:42
you
39:42
know
39:42
what,
39:42
I'm
39:42
going
39:42
to
39:42
go
39:43
ahead
39:43
and
39:43
schedule
39:43
the
39:43
call
39:44
or
39:44
the
39:45
follow
39:45
up.
39:45
I'm
39:45
going
39:45
to
39:45
go
39:45
ahead
39:46
and
39:46
send
39:46
them
39:46
out.
39:47
The
39:47
paperwork's
39:48
already
39:48
done.
39:48
I
39:48
already
39:48
talked
39:48
to
39:48
the
39:49
social
39:49
worker,
39:49
whatever.
39:50
They're
39:50
kind
39:50
of
39:51
all
39:52
the
39:52
things
39:52
that
39:52
I
39:52
could
39:53
help
39:53
with,
39:53
they're
39:53
already
39:54
doing
39:54
or
39:55
putting
39:55
into
39:55
play.
39:56
And
39:57
the
39:58
exceptional
39:58
residents
39:58
are
39:59
not
39:59
waiting
40:00
for
40:00
me
40:00
to
40:00
talk
40:00
to
40:01
the
40:01
patient
40:01
when
40:01
I
40:01
staff.
40:02
They
40:02
have
40:02
already
40:03
run
40:03
through
40:03
every
40:04
single
40:04
thing
40:04
and
40:04
they're
40:05
like,
40:05
hey,
40:05
this
40:05
preceptor
40:06
is
40:06
going
40:06
to
40:06
come
40:06
in
40:06
and
40:07
they're
40:07
just
40:07
going
40:07
to
40:07
wave,
40:08
ask
40:08
you
40:08
if
40:09
they
40:09
have
40:09
any
40:09
questions.
40:11
And
40:11
then
40:11
the
40:11
last
40:12
part
40:12
of
40:12
that
40:12
is
40:13
when
40:13
you
40:13
hear
40:13
that,
40:14
is
40:14
there
40:14
any
40:14
of
40:14
those
40:15
things
40:15
that
40:15
really
40:15
stands
40:16
out
40:16
to
40:16
you?
40:16
Any
40:17
one
40:17
of
40:17
those
40:17
that
40:17
you
40:18
really
40:18
want
40:18
to
40:18
work
40:18
towards
40:20
anything?
40:20
Any
40:21
one
40:21
of
40:21
those
40:21
facets
40:22
that
40:22
you
40:22
think,
40:22
oh,
40:24
like,
40:24
I
40:24
want
40:24
to
40:25
be
40:25
that,
40:25
but
40:25
I'm
40:25
not
40:26
there
40:26
yet.
40:27
And
40:27
that's
40:28
how
40:28
we
40:28
start
40:28
our
40:28
goal
40:29
setting.
40:29
So
40:29
expectations
40:31
exemplar.
40:32
So
40:32
it's
40:32
like
40:32
the
40:32
ease,
40:33
expectations
40:34
and
40:34
exemplary
40:35
first
40:36
and
40:37
then
40:37
elicit
40:38
goals.
40:39
Yeah.
40:39
And
40:39
then
40:39
the
40:40
encounter
40:42
and
40:42
then
40:44
entertain
40:45
feedback.
40:47
Gotta
40:47
have
40:47
another
40:47
E.
40:49
But
40:49
you
40:49
wanna,
40:49
I
40:49
wanna
40:50
make
40:50
it
40:50
a
40:50
D,
40:50
like
40:50
debrief.
40:52
Like
40:52
just
40:52
as
40:52
like,
40:53
I
40:53
just
40:54
love
40:54
how
40:54
much
40:54
this
40:55
approach,
40:56
it
40:56
requires
40:57
that
40:57
like
40:57
initial
40:58
foundational
40:59
building.
41:00
But
41:00
that's
41:01
the
41:01
piece
41:01
that
41:01
like
41:01
people
41:01
are
41:02
like,
41:02
ah.
41:03
Like
41:03
often
41:03
by
41:04
the
41:04
time
41:04
we
41:04
get
41:04
to
41:04
feedback,
41:05
because
41:05
we
41:05
haven't
41:05
built
41:06
the
41:06
foundation,
41:06
we
41:06
don't
41:07
really
41:07
have
41:07
the
41:07
relationship.
41:08
And
41:08
then
41:08
it's
41:08
just
41:08
all
41:08
like,
41:09
you
41:09
did
41:09
this
41:09
wrong,
41:09
you
41:09
did
41:10
this
41:10
wrong.
41:10
Perhaps
41:11
they
41:11
were
41:11
like,
41:11
I
41:12
didn't
41:12
even
41:12
know
41:12
that
41:12
was
41:13
an
41:13
expectation.
41:14
Like,
41:14
literally,
41:15
I
41:15
would
41:15
never
41:15
have
41:16
guessed,
41:16
you
41:16
know,
41:17
and
41:17
like
41:18
so
41:18
this
41:18
way
41:19
everyone's
41:20
clear
41:20
on
41:21
the
41:22
parameters
41:22
in
41:23
which
41:23
they're
41:23
expected
41:24
to
41:25
be
41:25
working.
41:26
And
41:27
so
41:27
that
41:27
means
41:27
they
41:28
won't
41:28
be
41:28
shocked
41:28
if,
41:29
if
41:29
they're
41:29
actually
41:30
operating
41:30
outside
41:30
of
41:31
those
41:31
parameters,
41:31
they'll
41:31
at
41:32
least
41:32
be
41:32
at
41:32
some
41:32
kind
41:32
of
41:32
conversation
41:33
coming.
41:33
Not
41:34
that
41:34
you're
41:34
going
41:34
to
41:35
shame
41:35
them
41:35
and
41:35
scream
41:36
at
41:36
them,
41:36
but
41:36
being
41:36
like,
41:37
hey,
41:37
so
41:37
remember
41:38
how
41:38
one
41:38
of
41:38
the
41:39
baseline
41:39
expectations
41:40
is
41:41
this.
41:41
I'm
41:41
documentation.
41:42
I'm
41:42
noticing
41:43
that
41:43
you
41:44
actually
41:44
have
41:44
several
41:45
open
41:45
charts
41:45
and
41:45
you
41:45
haven't
41:46
documented,
41:46
like,
41:46
so
41:47
what's
41:47
going
41:47
on
41:47
there?
41:47
Let's
41:48
talk
41:48
about
41:48
that,
41:48
like,
41:49
because
41:49
we've
41:50
already
41:50
established
41:50
it
41:51
as
41:51
an
41:51
expectation,
41:52
is
41:52
how
41:52
can
41:52
I
41:53
support
41:53
you
41:53
with
41:53
that?
41:54
Again?
41:55
It's
41:55
still
41:55
not
41:55
like
41:55
shaming
41:56
or
41:56
making
41:56
them
41:57
feel
41:57
bad
41:57
or
41:57
anything
41:58
like
41:58
that,
41:58
but
41:59
you've
41:59
already
41:59
established
42:00
that
42:00
this
42:01
is
42:01
something
42:01
that
42:01
was
42:02
meant
42:02
to
42:02
be
42:02
a
42:02
mutual
42:03
goal.
42:03
So
42:03
then
42:04
it
42:04
just
42:04
makes
42:04
the
42:05
problem.
42:05
Not
42:06
them
42:06
or
42:06
you,
42:06
but
42:07
something
42:07
you
42:07
can,
42:07
like,
42:08
work
42:08
on
42:08
together.
42:09
That's
42:09
right.
42:10
That's
42:10
right.
42:11
That's
42:12
so
42:12
cool.
42:14
I
42:14
love.
42:16
I
42:16
love
42:16
that
42:16
foundational.
42:18
I
42:18
love
42:19
that
42:19
foundational.
42:22
Do
42:22
you
42:23
need
42:23
to
42:23
pause
42:24
one
42:24
second?
42:24
Yeah,
42:25
one
42:25
second.
42:27
Just
42:27
now
42:27
it's
42:27
getting.
42:28
My
42:28
toddler
42:28
has
42:28
his
42:29
TV
42:30
volume
42:30
on
42:31
a.
42:36
I'm,
42:37
like,
42:37
trying
42:37
to.
42:38
I'm,
42:38
like,
42:38
trying
42:39
to
42:39
even
42:39
hear
42:39
myself
42:40
think.
42:41
Because
42:41
before
42:41
it
42:41
was
42:42
just
42:42
like,
42:42
background
42:42
noise,
42:42
but
42:42
then
42:43
it,
42:43
like,
42:43
suddenly
42:43
was
42:44
like,
42:44
there's
42:44
a
42:45
party
42:45
happening.
42:49
The.
42:51
The
42:51
foundation
42:54
minimum
42:54
expectation.
42:55
And
42:55
then
42:56
the
42:56
exemplary
42:57
goal,
42:58
I
42:58
think
42:58
is
42:58
so
43:00
great
43:00
to
43:01
have
43:01
up
43:01
front.
43:02
And
43:02
then
43:03
revisit,
43:03
as
43:04
you
43:04
said,
43:04
let's
43:05
say.
43:05
Let's
43:05
use
43:05
that
43:06
resident.
43:06
Right.
43:07
You
43:07
mentioned
43:08
documentation.
43:09
And
43:09
then
43:09
let's
43:09
say
43:09
their
43:10
goal
43:10
is.
43:13
Let's
43:13
say
43:13
their
43:13
goal
43:14
is
43:14
like,
43:14
I
43:14
want
43:14
to
43:14
think
43:15
of
43:16
step
43:16
A
43:16
through
43:16
D.
43:17
I
43:17
want
43:17
to
43:17
anticipate
43:18
complications
43:19
or
43:20
things
43:20
like
43:21
all
43:21
the
43:21
forks
43:21
in
43:21
the
43:21
road
43:22
if
43:22
this
43:22
happens,
43:22
if
43:23
thens,
43:24
then
43:24
you
43:24
can
43:25
come
43:25
back.
43:25
Let's
43:26
say
43:26
that
43:26
resident
43:27
doesn't
43:28
finish
43:28
charts
43:28
on
43:28
time.
43:30
Hey,
43:32
Tim,
43:34
your
43:35
goal
43:36
was
43:36
to
43:37
anticipate,
43:38
which
43:38
I
43:38
think
43:38
that
43:38
you're
43:38
doing
43:39
a
43:39
really
43:39
good
43:39
job
43:40
of.
43:41
Remember,
43:42
though,
43:43
that
43:43
one
43:43
of
43:43
the
43:43
minimum
43:44
expectations,
43:44
as
43:45
you
43:45
said,
43:45
is
43:45
documentation.
43:46
Yeah.
43:47
Now
43:48
link
43:48
them
43:49
together
43:50
to
43:50
be
43:51
effective
43:52
in
43:53
anticipating
43:53
A
43:54
through
43:54
D.
43:54
One
43:55
of
43:55
the
43:55
important
43:55
foundational
43:57
aspects
43:57
of
43:57
that
43:58
is
43:59
documentation
44:00
of
44:00
those
44:00
things
44:00
in
44:01
a
44:01
timely
44:01
manner.
44:02
And
44:02
let
44:02
me
44:02
tell
44:02
you
44:03
why.
44:03
Link
44:03
them
44:04
and
44:05
explain.
44:05
Give
44:06
your
44:06
reason.
44:07
Is
44:07
it
44:07
because
44:08
my
44:08
expectation
44:09
is
44:09
I
44:09
need
44:09
to
44:09
bill,
44:10
or
44:11
is
44:11
it
44:11
something
44:11
that
44:11
they
44:12
could
44:12
actually
44:12
take
44:13
with
44:13
them?
44:14
Here's
44:14
why
44:14
it's
44:15
important,
44:15
because
44:16
you
44:16
might
44:16
think
44:17
that
44:17
and
44:17
say
44:17
it
44:17
to
44:18
the
44:18
patient,
44:18
but
44:18
you
44:18
need
44:19
to
44:19
make
44:19
sure
44:20
that
44:20
your
44:20
team
44:21
knows.
44:21
So
44:22
when
44:22
this
44:22
patient
44:22
calls
44:23
back
44:23
in
44:23
a
44:23
week
44:24
and.
44:24
And
44:24
they're
44:24
calling
44:24
and
44:25
talking
44:25
to
44:25
your
44:25
nurse
44:26
over
44:26
the
44:26
phone,
44:27
and
44:28
your
44:28
nurse
44:29
says,
44:29
I
44:29
have
44:30
no
44:30
idea
44:30
what
44:30
you're
44:31
talking
44:31
about.
44:32
This
44:32
contingency
44:33
plan
44:33
wasn't
44:33
there.
44:33
Well,
44:34
Dr.
44:34
Blank
44:34
told
44:35
me
44:35
this
44:36
really
44:37
important
44:37
that
44:37
you
44:38
have
44:38
timely
44:38
documentation
44:39
because
44:39
A,
44:39
it
44:39
helps
44:40
the
44:40
team
44:40
patients
44:41
are
44:41
reading
44:41
the
44:41
chart.
44:42
B,
44:42
it
44:42
helps
44:43
the
44:43
patient
44:43
reinforce
44:44
what
44:44
you
44:44
said.
44:45
C,
44:46
helps
44:46
you
44:46
self
44:47
preservation.
44:47
Yes.
44:48
In
44:48
a
44:48
week
44:49
you
44:49
won't
44:49
remember
44:50
all
44:50
the
44:51
details.
44:52
So
44:52
documentation.
44:53
This
44:53
is
44:53
why
44:53
it's
44:53
really
44:53
important.
44:53
That's
44:54
why
44:54
it's
44:54
foundational
44:54
for
44:55
me.
44:57
Yeah.
44:57
A
44:57
lot
44:58
easier
44:58
to
44:58
hear
44:59
than
44:59
you
44:59
need
44:59
to
45:00
get
45:00
your
45:00
charts
45:00
in
45:00
on
45:00
time.
45:01
Yeah.
45:02
You're
45:02
making
45:02
me
45:02
look
45:03
bad
45:03
or
45:03
something.
45:03
Like
45:04
the
45:04
reason
45:04
that's
45:05
you're
45:05
shame.
45:05
Not
45:06
only
45:06
it's
45:07
shaming,
45:07
it
45:08
feels
45:08
bad
45:08
and
45:08
also
45:08
it
45:09
like
45:10
even
45:10
if
45:11
shame
45:11
wasn't
45:11
a
45:11
thing
45:11
though,
45:12
it
45:12
totally
45:12
isn't.
45:12
It's
45:12
so
45:13
important.
45:13
Like
45:13
even
45:13
if
45:14
we're
45:14
just
45:14
talking
45:14
about
45:14
effectiveness,
45:16
what
45:16
actually
45:17
helps
45:17
motivate
45:18
someone
45:18
to
45:18
change
45:18
their
45:19
behavior.
45:19
You're
45:20
speaking
45:20
to
45:21
their
45:21
motivation
45:22
and
45:23
of
45:23
everyone
45:24
is
45:24
self
45:24
centered.
45:25
That
45:25
is
45:25
normal.
45:25
That
45:26
is
45:26
how
45:26
it
45:26
is
45:26
supposed
45:26
to
45:27
be.
45:27
Like
45:27
my
45:28
body
45:28
and
45:28
my
45:28
brain
45:29
are
45:29
focused
45:29
my
45:30
energy
45:30
on
45:30
keeping
45:30
myself
45:31
well.
45:31
If
45:32
you,
45:32
you
45:32
know.
45:32
And
45:32
so
45:33
therefore
45:34
make
45:34
it
45:34
mean
45:34
something
45:35
to
45:35
me
45:35
and
45:35
then
45:36
I'm
45:36
likely
45:36
to
45:37
do
45:37
it
45:37
because
45:37
now
45:37
I
45:37
understand
45:38
why
45:38
it's
45:38
important
45:38
for
45:39
me
45:39
to
45:39
do.
45:39
That's
45:40
right.
45:40
Yeah.
45:41
Yeah.
45:42
That's
45:42
so
45:42
cool.
45:43
I
45:43
wonder
45:44
if
45:44
you
45:44
have
45:44
heard
45:46
but
45:46
Paul,
45:47
I
45:48
don't
45:48
have
45:48
time
45:49
to
45:49
do
45:49
all
45:49
this
45:49
chatty
45:50
chatty
45:50
with
45:50
all
45:51
these
45:51
learners
45:51
and
45:52
with
45:52
all
45:52
these
45:52
staff.
45:53
I'm
45:53
busy.
45:54
Yeah.
45:55
What
45:55
have
45:55
you
45:56
heard
45:56
that
45:56
before?
45:57
Oh,
45:57
all
45:57
the
45:57
time.
45:58
Yeah.
45:58
100%.
45:59
What's
45:59
your
46:00
like
46:01
counter
46:01
argument
46:02
if
46:02
you
46:02
will
46:02
or
46:02
like
46:02
what
46:02
do
46:02
you
46:03
to
46:03
speak
46:03
to
46:03
knowing
46:04
like
46:04
there's
46:04
a
46:04
million
46:05
things
46:05
we
46:05
could
46:05
be
46:05
doing
46:05
with
46:06
our
46:06
time.
46:07
Why
46:07
is
46:07
this
46:07
an
46:07
important
46:08
thing
46:08
to
46:08
invest
46:09
our
46:09
time
46:09
in?
46:13
I
46:13
think
46:14
what
46:14
is.
46:18
What
46:18
is
46:19
usually
46:19
on
46:19
people's
46:20
minds
46:20
is
46:20
a
46:20
pain
46:21
point.
46:22
They're
46:22
bringing
46:22
up
46:23
time
46:23
as
46:23
hey,
46:24
the
46:24
pain
46:24
point
46:24
is
46:24
I
46:24
have
46:25
a
46:25
clinic
46:25
flow,
46:25
I
46:26
have
46:26
a
46:26
surgery
46:27
workflow.
46:28
I
46:29
need
46:29
to
46:29
stay
46:29
in
46:30
my
46:30
workflow
46:30
because
46:30
at
46:30
the
46:31
end
46:31
of
46:31
the
46:31
day
46:31
it's
46:31
patients.
46:31
Like
46:33
I
46:34
can't
46:34
sacrifice
46:35
my
46:35
patient
46:35
care
46:36
for
46:36
this
46:37
learner's
46:37
sake.
46:38
Like
46:38
I
46:38
know
46:38
it's
46:38
important
46:39
but
46:39
at
46:39
the
46:39
end
46:39
of
46:40
the
46:40
day
46:40
I'm
46:40
a
46:41
physician
46:41
and
46:42
my
46:42
patients
46:42
in
46:43
front
46:43
of
46:43
me
46:44
I
46:45
think
46:45
that
46:46
people
46:47
are
46:48
thinking
46:48
about
46:49
the
46:49
pain
46:49
point.
46:49
So
46:50
you
46:50
address
46:51
the
46:51
pain
46:52
point
46:54
directly.
46:55
Well,
46:55
if
46:55
time
46:56
is
46:56
the
46:56
pain
46:57
point
46:57
because
46:57
of
46:58
really
46:58
at
46:58
the
46:58
end
46:59
of
46:59
the
46:59
day
46:59
it's
46:59
because
46:59
of
47:00
workflow.
47:01
What
47:01
are
47:02
ways
47:02
that
47:02
we
47:02
can
47:02
integrate
47:03
this
47:03
in
47:03
the
47:03
workflow?
47:04
Usually
47:04
people
47:05
are
47:05
thinking
47:05
of
47:05
the
47:05
traditional
47:07
feedback
47:08
conversation
47:09
set
47:10
the
47:10
stage
47:11
after
47:12
clinic.
47:13
I
47:13
don't.
47:14
I've
47:14
got
47:14
documentation.
47:15
I've
47:16
got
47:16
a
47:16
meeting.
47:16
I
47:16
don't
47:16
have
47:17
20
47:17
minutes
47:17
to
47:18
check
47:18
in.
47:19
How
47:19
would
47:19
that
47:19
go?
47:20
What?
47:20
You
47:20
know,
47:21
I
47:21
don't
47:21
have
47:21
time
47:22
for
47:22
that.
47:23
Well,
47:24
eliminate
47:24
that
47:25
microfeedback.
47:27
You
47:27
go
47:27
see
47:28
a
47:28
patient
47:28
right
47:28
after.
47:29
If
47:29
you
47:29
think
47:30
it,
47:31
say
47:31
it.
47:32
If
47:32
it
47:32
takes.
47:32
It's
47:32
like
47:33
the
47:33
two
47:33
minute
47:33
rule.
47:33
If
47:33
it
47:33
takes
47:34
less
47:34
than
47:34
two
47:34
minutes,
47:34
just
47:35
do
47:35
it
47:36
right
47:36
there,
47:36
right
47:37
then
47:37
and
47:37
there.
47:38
And
47:39
that's
47:39
actually
47:39
what
47:40
I
47:40
do
47:40
when
47:40
I
47:41
staff
47:41
Fellows
47:41
Clinic
47:42
now,
47:42
right
47:43
after
47:43
a
47:43
presentation.
47:44
Hey,
47:45
that
47:46
was
47:46
definitely
47:47
a
47:47
lot
47:47
easier
47:47
to
47:47
follow
47:47
along
47:48
than
47:49
the
47:50
first
47:50
patient.
47:51
I
47:51
think
47:51
you're
47:51
already
47:51
starting
47:52
to
47:52
integrate
47:52
some
47:52
of
47:52
those
47:53
analogies
47:53
that
47:53
we
47:54
talked
47:54
about.
47:56
I
47:56
like
47:56
that.
47:56
And
47:57
I
47:57
think
47:57
I
47:57
can
47:58
hear
47:58
that
47:58
as
47:58
a
47:58
patient
47:59
better.
47:59
Cool.
48:00
Let's
48:00
go
48:00
staff
48:00
the
48:00
patient
48:01
just
48:02
like
48:02
that.
48:03
And
48:03
then
48:04
you
48:04
can
48:04
have
48:04
a
48:05
much
48:05
quicker
48:05
debrief
48:06
at
48:06
the
48:06
end.
48:07
Hey,
48:08
Joan.
48:09
At
48:09
the
48:09
end
48:10
of
48:10
clinic.
48:10
Joan,
48:10
we
48:11
already
48:11
talked
48:11
about
48:11
this.
48:11
I
48:12
saw
48:12
the
48:12
analogies
48:12
today.
48:13
I'm
48:14
still
48:14
waiting
48:15
for.
48:15
I'm
48:16
still
48:16
not
48:16
quite
48:17
hearing
48:17
you
48:17
deliver
48:18
it
48:19
as
48:19
well.
48:19
You're
48:20
staffing
48:20
with
48:20
me,
48:21
but
48:21
in
48:21
the
48:21
room
48:22
together,
48:23
I
48:23
feel
48:23
like
48:23
the
48:23
patient
48:24
needs
48:24
to
48:24
follow.
48:24
So
48:25
definitely
48:25
something
48:25
to
48:25
work
48:26
on
48:26
for
48:26
next
48:26
time.
48:27
That
48:28
could
48:28
be
48:28
a
48:28
goal
48:28
that
48:28
we
48:29
talk
48:29
about
48:29
next
48:29
time.
48:29
But
48:30
I
48:30
do
48:31
like
48:31
how
48:31
you're
48:31
already
48:31
incorporating
48:32
that
48:32
just
48:32
in
48:33
one
48:33
clinic
48:33
session,
48:34
right?
48:34
Yeah.
48:35
Very
48:35
quick.
48:36
Very,
48:36
very,
48:37
very
48:37
quick.
48:38
You're
48:38
already
48:38
talked
48:39
about
48:39
goals.
48:39
You
48:39
already
48:39
talk
48:40
about
48:40
expectations
48:42
to
48:42
me.
48:44
I
48:44
love
48:45
as
48:45
a
48:45
GI
48:45
doc,
48:46
I
48:46
kind
48:46
of
48:46
get
48:47
to
48:47
put
48:47
on
48:47
my
48:47
surgeon,
48:49
you
48:49
know,
48:49
my
48:50
OR
48:50
cap
48:51
a
48:51
little
48:52
bit,
48:52
so
48:52
I
48:52
get
48:52
to
48:52
think
48:53
like
48:53
a
48:53
procedural
48:53
list,
48:54
not
48:54
just
48:54
as
48:54
a
48:55
clinician.
48:55
I
48:55
love
48:56
this
48:56
duality
48:56
that
48:57
I
48:57
have
48:57
in
48:57
my
48:57
field.
48:59
Well,
48:59
every
48:59
single
49:00
or
49:00
every
49:00
single
49:01
procedure
49:01
needs
49:01
a
49:01
timeout
49:02
and
49:02
a
49:03
debrief.
49:04
What
49:04
if
49:04
we
49:04
implemented
49:05
the
49:06
feedback
49:07
educational
49:07
and
49:08
I've
49:08
talked
49:08
about
49:08
this
49:09
timeout
49:10
debrief.
49:11
Yeah.
49:12
The
49:12
timeout
49:13
is
49:13
at
49:13
the
49:13
beginning
49:13
of
49:13
your
49:13
clinic
49:14
session.
49:14
Hey,
49:14
these
49:14
are
49:14
expectations
49:15
here.
49:16
It's
49:16
very
49:16
quick.
49:17
It's
49:18
just
49:18
go
49:18
through.
49:19
We've
49:19
got
49:20
a
49:20
busy
49:20
day
49:20
in
49:20
clinic
49:21
10.
49:22
I'm
49:22
going
49:22
to
49:22
have
49:23
you
49:23
see
49:23
these
49:23
patients
49:24
when
49:24
you
49:24
usually
49:24
talk
49:25
about
49:25
that
49:25
flow
49:26
with
49:26
a
49:26
learner
49:26
anyway,
49:27
you
49:27
talk
49:27
about
49:27
your
49:28
flow
49:28
through
49:28
the
49:28
day,
49:29
talk
49:29
about
49:30
the
49:30
educational
49:30
flow
49:31
after
49:32
each
49:32
patient.
49:32
I'm
49:32
gonna
49:32
give
49:33
you
49:33
just
49:33
a
49:33
little
49:33
bit.
49:33
I
49:34
want
49:34
you
49:34
to
49:35
hold
49:35
big
49:35
questions
49:37
for
49:37
when
49:38
we
49:38
have
49:38
gaps.
49:38
If
49:39
we
49:39
have
49:39
a
49:39
no
49:39
show
49:39
or
49:40
a
49:40
cancellation
49:40
or
49:41
at
49:41
the
49:41
end
49:42
of
49:42
clinic,
49:42
I
49:42
want
49:42
to
49:43
carve
49:43
out
49:43
about
49:43
five
49:44
minutes
49:44
to
49:45
touch
49:45
base,
49:46
have
49:46
that
49:46
workflow,
49:47
have
49:47
those
49:47
expectations
49:48
of
49:48
the
49:48
actual
49:49
conversation.
49:50
I
49:50
don't
49:51
think
49:51
effective
49:52
feedback
49:52
conversations
49:53
need
49:53
to
49:53
take
49:54
that
49:55
long.
49:55
And
49:55
I
49:55
think
49:55
two
49:56
minutes
49:56
is
49:56
sufficient.
49:57
You
49:58
have
49:58
two
49:58
minutes.
49:59
Yeah.
50:02
You
50:02
can
50:02
find
50:02
two
50:02
minutes
50:03
in
50:03
a
50:03
morning.
50:04
Yeah.
50:06
And
50:06
it's
50:06
worth
50:06
it.
50:07
Right.
50:07
So
50:07
first
50:07
of
50:07
all,
50:08
if
50:08
you're
50:08
going
50:08
to
50:08
work
50:08
with
50:08
this
50:09
learner,
50:09
over
50:09
time,
50:11
this
50:11
is
50:11
going
50:11
to
50:11
help
50:11
this
50:12
learner
50:12
grow
50:12
and
50:14
be
50:14
more
50:15
effective.
50:15
Other
50:16
times
50:16
when,
50:17
like,
50:17
make
50:17
it
50:18
less
50:18
likely,
50:18
you'll
50:18
have
50:18
to
50:18
have
50:19
longer
50:19
conversations
50:20
later,
50:20
if
50:20
you
50:20
will.
50:21
Right.
50:21
And
50:22
you're
50:22
investing
50:23
up
50:23
front.
50:24
Exactly.
50:24
And
50:25
even
50:25
just
50:26
thinking
50:26
globally.
50:27
So
50:27
like
50:27
now
50:27
this
50:27
person,
50:28
whether
50:28
they're
50:28
your
50:28
teammate
50:29
or
50:29
they'll
50:30
go
50:30
out
50:30
somewhere
50:30
else
50:30
in
50:31
the
50:31
healthcare
50:31
world
50:31
because
50:31
they're
50:32
a
50:32
learner
50:32
and
50:32
they'll
50:32
go
50:32
graduate.
50:33
Like,
50:33
investing
50:34
in
50:34
them
50:34
now
50:34
means
50:35
that
50:35
we're
50:35
going
50:35
to
50:35
have
50:35
a
50:36
more
50:36
activated,
50:37
empowered,
50:39
skillful
50:40
healthcare
50:40
collective
50:41
that
50:41
we're,
50:42
that
50:42
we're
50:42
all
50:42
working
50:43
within.
50:44
And
50:44
so
50:44
it's
50:44
like
50:45
making,
50:45
it's
50:45
helping
50:45
your
50:45
future
50:46
self
50:46
have
50:46
like
50:46
a
50:47
colleague.
50:47
That's
50:48
going
50:48
to
50:48
be
50:48
really
50:48
effective
50:49
because
50:49
you've
50:49
invested
50:50
little
50:50
droplets
50:50
of
50:50
your
50:51
time
50:51
now.
50:51
Right?
50:52
That's
50:52
right.
50:52
Treat
50:53
learners
50:53
like
50:54
they
50:54
are
50:55
the
50:55
future
50:55
colleagues,
50:56
the
50:56
future
50:57
consultants,
50:58
the
50:58
future
50:59
people
50:59
who
50:59
will
50:59
consult
51:00
you.
51:01
Treat
51:01
people
51:02
like
51:02
where
51:03
they're
51:03
going
51:04
and
51:04
not
51:04
where
51:05
they
51:05
are.
51:07
That's
51:08
good.
51:08
Is
51:08
that.
51:09
Did
51:09
someone
51:09
else
51:09
say
51:09
that?
51:09
Otherwise
51:10
you
51:10
should
51:10
like
51:10
put
51:10
that
51:11
a
51:11
T
51:11
shirt.
51:12
I
51:12
don't
51:12
think
51:12
someone
51:13
has
51:13
said,
51:14
I
51:14
take
51:14
a
51:14
lot
51:14
from
51:15
thought
51:15
leaders.
51:15
I
51:15
don't
51:15
think
51:16
someone
51:16
said
51:16
that.
51:16
But
51:17
a
51:17
lot
51:17
of
51:17
people
51:17
have
51:18
espoused
51:18
on
51:18
that.
51:19
Concepts
51:19
like
51:19
that.
51:19
But
51:20
like,
51:20
we
51:20
need
51:20
to
51:20
do
51:20
that
51:21
in
51:21
medicine.
51:21
Like,
51:22
yeah,
51:24
I
51:24
think
51:24
that's
51:24
a
51:25
problem.
51:25
That's
51:25
one
51:25
of
51:26
the
51:26
big
51:26
problems
51:26
of
51:26
training
51:26
and
51:27
I
51:27
think
51:27
that's
51:28
how
51:28
culture
51:28
changes.
51:29
Yes.
51:29
Because
51:30
we
51:30
are
51:30
like
51:30
these
51:30
learners,
51:31
they're.
51:31
They're
51:32
just
51:32
like
51:32
little.
51:33
Well,
51:34
I
51:34
remember
51:34
as
51:34
a
51:34
learner,
51:34
I
51:35
would
51:35
off
51:35
you'd
51:35
feel
51:35
like
51:36
a
51:36
little
51:36
like
51:36
scutt
51:36
monkey.
51:37
You
51:37
just
51:37
feel
51:37
like
51:37
you're
51:38
serving
51:38
the
51:38
big
51:38
master.
51:39
I.
51:40
There
51:40
were,
51:40
there
51:40
certainly
51:41
were
51:41
preceptors
51:42
who
51:42
viewed
51:42
me
51:42
as
51:43
like,
51:44
you're
51:44
gonna
51:44
be
51:44
a
51:44
doctor,
51:45
you're
51:45
gonna
51:45
be
51:45
a
51:45
doctor.
51:46
Or
51:46
like,
51:46
you're
51:46
a
51:46
doctor
51:46
now,
51:47
you're
51:47
in,
51:47
you
51:47
know,
51:47
you're
51:48
in
51:48
residency,
51:49
you
51:49
are
51:49
my
51:50
colleague
51:50
already.
51:50
And
51:50
I
51:51
felt
51:51
the
51:51
difference
51:52
when
51:52
they
51:52
were
51:52
treating
51:52
me
51:53
as
51:53
like
51:53
either
51:53
a
51:53
future
51:53
peer
51:54
or
51:54
like
51:54
literally
51:55
appear
51:55
that
51:55
they
51:55
just
51:55
have
51:56
more
51:56
knowledge
51:56
than
51:56
me.
51:57
It
51:57
was
51:58
a
51:58
completely
51:58
different
51:58
experience
51:59
than
51:59
someone
51:59
who's
51:59
like,
51:59
you
52:00
are
52:00
my
52:00
minion
52:00
for
52:01
the
52:01
day.
52:02
That's
52:02
not
52:02
teaching.
52:03
I
52:03
don't
52:03
know
52:03
what
52:03
we
52:03
think
52:04
that
52:04
is,
52:04
but
52:06
no,
52:06
not
52:07
my
52:07
preferred
52:07
approach.
52:08
It's
52:08
task
52:08
giving,
52:09
not
52:09
teaching.
52:11
Ugh.
52:12
World
52:12
of
52:12
difference.
52:13
That,
52:14
that
52:14
there's
52:14
A
52:14
difference.
52:15
And,
52:15
you
52:16
know,
52:16
we're
52:16
going
52:16
to
52:16
go
52:16
full
52:16
circle
52:17
here,
52:17
because
52:18
how
52:19
do
52:19
you
52:20
incorporate
52:21
that
52:22
in
52:22
just
52:23
approaching
52:24
a
52:24
conversation?
52:25
How
52:25
do
52:26
you.
52:26
And
52:26
approaching
52:27
that
52:28
level
52:28
of
52:30
discomfort?
52:31
Yeah.
52:33
Well,
52:33
if
52:34
you
52:34
view
52:34
the
52:34
learner,
52:36
the
52:36
recipient,
52:37
as
52:38
a
52:38
colleague,
52:39
it
52:40
shifts
52:40
the
52:40
mindset.
52:41
Because
52:43
I
52:43
hold
52:44
my
52:44
colleagues
52:45
to
52:45
a
52:45
higher
52:46
standard.
52:46
Why?
52:47
Because
52:47
they're,
52:47
you
52:47
know,
52:47
they're
52:48
professionals.
52:49
And,
52:51
like,
52:51
if
52:51
I
52:51
view
52:52
you
52:52
as
52:52
a
52:52
colleague,
52:53
I'm
52:54
gonna
52:54
feel
52:54
comfortable
52:54
if
52:55
you're
52:55
my
52:55
partner
52:55
in
52:55
the
52:56
business.
52:56
Right.
52:56
Like,
52:57
hey,
52:57
I
52:57
have
52:58
to
52:58
have
52:58
hard
52:58
conversations
52:59
with
52:59
you.
52:59
Because
53:00
we,
53:00
like,
53:00
our
53:00
business,
53:01
will
53:01
flounder,
53:02
will
53:02
fail
53:04
if
53:04
we're
53:04
not
53:04
on
53:04
the
53:04
same
53:04
page
53:05
here.
53:05
Same
53:06
thing.
53:07
So
53:08
one
53:08
of
53:08
the
53:08
ways
53:08
that
53:08
we
53:09
can
53:09
approach
53:09
learners
53:09
as
53:10
is
53:11
a.
53:11
We
53:11
can
53:11
more
53:12
confidently
53:12
talk
53:13
about
53:13
those
53:13
high
53:13
standards
53:13
and
53:14
expectations.
53:15
But
53:15
also,
53:16
I
53:16
think
53:17
one
53:18
of
53:18
the
53:18
things
53:18
I've
53:18
said
53:18
is
53:19
I
53:19
don't
53:20
want
53:21
a
53:21
night
53:22
alone.
53:23
Like,
53:24
a
53:24
night
53:24
where
53:24
you're
53:25
alone
53:25
and
53:25
getting
53:25
this
53:26
call
53:26
to
53:26
be
53:26
the
53:26
first
53:27
time
53:27
you
53:28
think
53:28
about
53:28
this
53:29
or
53:29
the
53:29
first
53:29
time
53:29
you
53:30
hear
53:30
about
53:30
this.
53:31
Yeah,
53:31
hey,
53:32
buddy.
53:34
We
53:34
got
53:34
a
53:35
little
53:35
glass
53:35
of
53:35
milk
53:36
there
53:36
or
53:37
something?
53:41
I
53:41
think
53:43
when
53:43
you.
53:44
I've
53:45
heard
53:45
mentors
53:45
do
53:46
that
53:46
to
53:46
me,
53:46
and
53:46
I've
53:46
started
53:47
implementing
53:47
that.
53:47
I
53:48
don't
53:48
want
53:48
this
53:49
first
53:49
call
53:50
a
53:50
year
53:50
into
53:50
being
53:51
an
53:51
attending
53:51
for
53:52
you,
53:52
the
53:52
first
53:52
time
53:52
to
53:53
deal
53:53
with
53:53
this
53:53
emergency.
53:54
I
53:54
don't
53:54
want
53:55
you
53:55
to
53:55
go
53:55
into
53:56
your
53:56
career
53:57
and
53:57
not
53:57
get
53:57
feedback
53:58
and
53:58
not
53:58
hear
53:59
that
53:59
you
53:59
do
53:59
this.
54:00
I
54:00
want
54:00
to
54:00
point
54:00
this
54:01
out
54:01
in
54:01
kindness
54:02
because
54:03
I
54:03
care
54:03
about
54:04
you
54:04
and
54:04
I
54:05
care
54:05
about
54:05
how
54:05
good
54:05
you
54:06
are.
54:06
I
54:06
want
54:06
you
54:06
to
54:06
do
54:07
this.
54:07
I
54:07
want
54:07
to
54:07
invest
54:07
in
54:07
you.
54:09
And
54:09
then
54:09
I
54:09
also.
54:10
I've
54:10
also
54:11
put
54:11
a
54:11
lot
54:12
of.
54:12
That's
54:12
actually
54:13
how
54:13
I
54:13
teach.
54:13
I
54:13
do
54:13
what's
54:14
called
54:14
situational
54:14
awareness.
54:15
I
54:15
do
54:15
a
54:15
lot
54:15
of.
54:16
You
54:17
have
54:17
a
54:17
patient,
54:17
you
54:18
get
54:18
called
54:18
about
54:18
this.
54:19
A
54:19
nurse
54:19
pages
54:19
you
54:20
about
54:20
this.
54:20
What
54:20
do
54:20
you
54:20
think?
54:21
What
54:21
do
54:21
you
54:21
do?
54:22
Put
54:22
them
54:23
in
54:23
the
54:23
scenario.
54:23
It's
54:24
like
54:25
verbal
54:26
simulation.
54:27
But
54:28
I'll
54:28
say
54:29
a
54:29
lot
54:29
for
54:29
feedback,
54:30
too.
54:30
Like,
54:32
you
54:33
are
54:33
so
54:33
close.
54:34
You're
54:34
so
54:34
much
54:34
closer
54:35
to
54:35
being
54:35
alone
54:36
than
54:37
starting
54:38
your
54:38
journey.
54:39
And
54:39
by
54:39
being
54:39
alone,
54:40
like,
54:40
you
54:41
realize
54:41
that
54:42
you're
54:42
never
54:43
truly
54:43
alone.
54:43
You
54:43
have
54:44
mentors
54:44
you
54:44
can
54:44
reach
54:44
out
54:45
to.
54:45
You
54:45
can
54:45
always
54:45
reach
54:45
out
54:45
to
54:46
me,
54:47
but
54:47
I
54:47
won't
54:48
be
54:48
making
54:48
the
54:48
decision
54:49
for
54:49
you.
54:49
I'll
54:50
be
54:50
giving
54:50
guidance,
54:50
but
54:51
I
54:51
won't
54:51
be
54:51
making
54:51
the
54:51
decision.
54:52
Yeah.
54:53
So
54:53
let's
54:54
assume
54:55
now
54:55
when.
54:55
When
54:56
I'm
54:56
here
54:56
and
54:56
it's
54:57
safe,
54:58
you
54:58
make
54:58
the
54:59
decision.
55:00
What
55:00
are
55:00
you
55:00
going
55:00
to
55:01
do?
55:02
Or
55:02
you
55:02
need
55:02
to
55:03
make
55:03
a
55:03
better
55:04
decision,
55:04
or
55:04
you.
55:04
You.
55:05
You
55:05
feel
55:05
uncomfortable
55:06
with
55:06
the
55:06
decision.
55:07
How
55:07
can
55:07
we
55:08
help
55:08
you
55:08
with
55:09
that
55:09
decision
55:10
now
55:11
when
55:11
it's
55:12
safe
55:13
rather
55:13
than
55:13
later
55:14
when
55:14
you
55:14
are
55:14
losing
55:15
sleep
55:15
for
55:16
a
55:16
month
55:16
because
55:16
you
55:17
think
55:17
you
55:17
made
55:17
the
55:17
wrong
55:17
decision
55:18
decision
55:19
and
55:19
giving
55:19
some
55:19
of
55:20
that
55:20
future
55:20
thinking,
55:21
that
55:21
empowerment
55:22
of
55:22
like,
55:22
hey,
55:22
I'm
55:22
thinking
55:23
about
55:23
you
55:23
in
55:23
a
55:23
month
55:24
or
55:24
you
55:24
in
55:25
a
55:25
year
55:25
or
55:25
you
55:25
in
55:25
three
55:26
years
55:26
rather
55:26
than
55:26
you
55:27
right
55:27
now.
55:28
That's,
55:28
I
55:28
think,
55:28
how
55:28
we
55:29
can
55:29
incorporate
55:29
this
55:30
future
55:30
colleague
55:31
idea.
55:32
I
55:33
love
55:33
it.
55:33
I
55:33
feel
55:33
like
55:34
that
55:34
in
55:34
everything
55:35
you've
55:35
said,
55:35
like
55:36
that
55:36
Adam
55:36
Grant
55:36
study
55:37
blew
55:37
my
55:37
mind.
55:38
And
55:38
then,
55:38
and
55:38
then
55:38
building
55:39
on
55:39
that,
55:39
like
55:39
the
55:40
way
55:40
of
55:40
thinking
55:40
in
55:40
this
55:40
future
55:41
colleagues,
55:41
like,
55:42
I
55:42
think
55:42
that
55:42
has
55:43
just
55:43
permanently
55:43
shifted.
55:43
Highly
55:44
feedback.
55:45
So
55:45
thank
55:45
you.
55:47
I
55:47
won't
55:47
be
55:47
alone.
55:49
Cuz
55:49
like,
55:49
you
55:49
know,
55:50
you,
55:50
you
55:50
just
55:50
get
55:50
in
55:50
your
55:50
head
55:51
and
55:51
you're
55:51
like,
55:51
they're
55:51
going
55:51
to
55:51
feel
55:52
sad
55:52
or
55:52
I'm
55:52
going
55:52
to
55:53
be
55:53
uncomfortable.
55:53
But
55:54
like,
55:54
yes,
55:54
emotions
55:55
will
55:55
happen.
55:56
People
55:56
might
55:57
have
55:57
reactions.
55:58
Who
55:58
knows?
55:58
And
55:59
like,
55:59
why
55:59
is
55:59
it
55:59
worth
56:00
it
56:00
to
56:00
work
56:00
through
56:00
those?
56:01
Why
56:01
does
56:01
the,
56:01
does
56:01
that
56:01
mean
56:02
we
56:02
don't
56:02
have
56:02
to
56:02
shy
56:02
away
56:03
from
56:03
it?
56:03
Like,
56:03
why
56:03
is
56:03
it
56:04
still
56:04
important
56:04
to
56:04
find
56:04
a
56:05
way
56:05
through?
56:06
It's
56:07
because
56:07
they
56:07
are
56:08
our
56:08
current
56:08
or
56:08
future
56:09
colleagues.
56:09
These
56:09
are
56:09
people,
56:10
people
56:10
that
56:11
we
56:11
will
56:12
rely
56:12
on
56:12
and
56:12
they
56:12
will
56:13
rely
56:13
on
56:13
us.
56:13
And
56:14
like,
56:14
it
56:15
just,
56:15
it
56:15
just
56:15
really
56:16
activated
56:16
the
56:16
concept
56:17
for
56:17
me.
56:17
So
56:17
thank
56:17
you.
56:18
Of
56:19
course.
56:19
Of
56:19
course.
56:20
Yeah.
56:20
Lovely.
56:21
There's
56:21
a
56:21
study,
56:22
I
56:22
think
56:22
it
56:22
was
56:22
at
56:22
the
56:22
Brigham.
56:24
I
56:24
think
56:24
it
56:24
was
56:25
the
56:25
Brigham
56:26
and
56:26
Women's
56:26
Psychiatry
56:28
residents.
56:28
I
56:28
might
56:29
be
56:29
quoting
56:29
the
56:29
wrong
56:30
study,
56:31
but
56:31
they,
56:33
they
56:33
asked.
56:34
There
56:34
was
56:34
a
56:34
qualitative
56:35
study
56:35
where
56:35
they
56:36
asked,
56:36
they
56:36
asked
56:37
what
56:37
were
56:38
like,
56:38
what
56:39
was
56:39
the
56:39
perception
56:40
of
56:40
the
56:40
interaction,
56:41
the
56:41
feedback
56:41
interaction.
56:42
And
56:43
one
56:43
of
56:43
the
56:43
themes
56:44
that
56:44
they
56:45
found
56:45
in
56:45
this
56:45
qualitative
56:46
study
56:46
was
56:46
that
56:49
the
56:50
residents
56:50
are
56:51
less
56:51
likely
56:51
to
56:51
value
56:52
or
56:52
implement
56:53
the
56:53
feedback
56:55
when
56:55
they
56:55
feel
56:55
like
56:58
the
56:58
giver
56:59
doesn't
57:00
see
57:01
them
57:01
as
57:01
a
57:01
colleague,
57:01
doesn't
57:02
treat
57:02
them
57:02
as
57:03
a
57:03
colleague.
57:04
They're
57:04
just
57:05
like,
57:06
well
57:06
then
57:07
it
57:07
matters
57:07
less
57:08
to
57:08
me.
57:08
You're
57:08
less
57:08
invested
57:09
in
57:10
me.
57:10
Yeah,
57:12
that
57:12
was
57:12
one.
57:13
And
57:13
it
57:13
was
57:13
like,
57:13
how
57:13
well
57:14
do
57:14
you
57:14
know
57:14
me
57:14
as
57:15
a
57:15
person
57:15
and
57:16
a
57:16
professional?
57:16
What
57:16
are
57:17
my
57:17
goals?
57:17
So
57:18
again,
57:18
all
57:18
of
57:18
this
57:19
incorporates
57:20
and
57:20
we've
57:20
talked
57:21
about
57:21
a
57:21
lot,
57:22
yet
57:23
the
57:23
conversation
57:24
doesn't
57:24
have
57:24
to
57:24
be
57:25
like
57:25
modular.
57:26
Like
57:26
we
57:26
are
57:27
now
57:27
moving
57:27
from
57:28
the
57:28
mutual
57:29
goal
57:29
setting
57:31
expectation
57:32
to
57:32
now
57:32
goal
57:32
setting,
57:34
you
57:34
know,
57:34
part
57:34
of
57:34
our
57:34
programming.
57:36
It
57:36
can
57:36
feel
57:37
very
57:37
natural.
57:37
Like
57:38
it
57:38
is
57:38
just
57:38
getting
57:38
to
57:39
know
57:39
someone
57:39
and
57:40
caring
57:40
about
57:40
them
57:40
as
57:41
a
57:41
person.
57:42
Yeah,
57:42
basically.
57:44
Okay,
57:45
I
57:45
could
57:45
talk
57:45
to
57:45
you
57:45
about
57:46
this
57:46
for
57:46
like
57:46
another
57:46
hour,
57:47
but
57:47
I
57:47
try
57:48
and
57:48
keep
57:48
these
57:48
to
57:48
an
57:48
hour.
57:49
So
57:49
I'm
57:49
gonna
57:50
wrap
57:50
it
57:50
up.
57:51
Thank
57:51
you
57:51
so
57:51
much.
57:52
This
57:52
has
57:52
been
57:52
like
57:52
such
57:52
a
57:53
rich
57:53
conversation
57:54
is
57:54
really
57:56
I
57:56
feel
57:56
very
57:56
empowered
57:57
to
57:58
kind
57:59
of
57:59
in
57:59
some
57:59
ways
57:59
be
57:59
more
58:00
explicit
58:01
with
58:01
my
58:01
feedback.
58:01
As
58:01
in
58:02
like
58:02
really
58:02
think
58:03
about
58:03
like
58:03
that
58:03
clear,
58:04
kind
58:05
specific
58:06
feedback
58:07
that
58:08
is
58:08
meaningful
58:08
to
58:09
my
58:09
learners
58:09
in
58:09
a
58:09
way
58:10
that
58:11
I'm
58:11
really
58:11
excited
58:12
to
58:12
like
58:13
do
58:13
with
58:13
even
58:13
more
58:14
finesse
58:14
and
58:14
intention.
58:17
The
58:17
last
58:18
question
58:18
I
58:18
ask
58:19
any.
58:19
Well
58:19
I
58:19
guess
58:19
two
58:20
questions.
58:20
So
58:20
one
58:21
would
58:21
be
58:22
if
58:22
folks
58:22
want
58:22
to
58:22
find
58:23
you,
58:24
there's
58:24
going
58:24
to
58:24
be
58:24
a
58:24
new
58:25
place
58:25
they're
58:25
going
58:25
to
58:25
find
58:25
you
58:26
and
58:26
me
58:27
coming
58:27
soon.
58:28
But
58:28
beyond
58:28
that
58:29
collective
58:29
space,
58:30
where
58:30
can
58:31
folks
58:31
find
58:31
you
58:31
if
58:31
they
58:32
want
58:32
to
58:32
follow
58:32
you,
58:32
see
58:33
what
58:33
you're
58:33
up
58:33
to
58:34
and
58:34
who
58:35
and
58:35
tell
58:35
maybe
58:35
talk
58:36
a
58:36
bit
58:36
more
58:36
about
58:36
like
58:36
who
58:36
your
58:37
primary
58:37
audience
58:37
would
58:37
be
58:38
for
58:38
those
58:38
spaces.
58:39
Yeah.
58:40
So
58:41
my
58:42
platform
58:42
on
58:43
TikTok
58:43
and
58:43
Instagram
58:44
it's
58:45
easy.
58:46
Elementary
58:47
school,
58:47
where
58:47
does
58:47
that
58:48
come
58:48
from?
58:48
Elementary
58:48
is
58:49
GI
58:49
tract
58:49
and
58:50
in
58:50
school
58:50
because
58:50
me
58:51
as
58:51
an
58:51
educator,
58:52
like
58:52
I
58:52
thought
58:52
it
58:52
was
58:53
a
58:53
fun
58:53
pun
58:53
but
58:54
elementary
58:54
school
58:55
is
58:55
Instagram
58:56
and
58:56
TikTok.
58:57
That's
58:57
my
58:57
audience
58:58
there
58:58
is
58:58
primarily
58:59
the
58:59
learners,
59:00
students,
59:01
residents.
59:01
I
59:02
mean
59:02
it's
59:02
generational.
59:02
That's
59:03
where
59:04
generation
59:04
is
59:06
the
59:09
the
59:09
content
59:09
that
59:09
I
59:09
want
59:10
to
59:10
produce
59:10
on
59:11
YouTube
59:11
long
59:12
form
59:12
content
59:13
and
59:15
whether
59:16
video
59:16
podcasts
59:17
coming
59:19
and
59:20
my
59:20
newsletter
59:21
and
59:22
my
59:22
website
59:22
are
59:23
more
59:23
this
59:24
educational
59:24
insights
59:27
and
59:27
talking
59:28
more
59:28
about
59:29
from
59:29
a
59:29
serious
59:29
standpoint
59:30
less
59:30
entertainment
59:31
skits
59:32
and
59:33
more
59:33
educational
59:34
like
59:34
well
59:35
there
59:35
is
59:35
a
59:35
problem
59:36
that
59:36
you
59:36
clearly
59:36
delineate
59:37
in
59:37
your
59:37
shorts.
59:38
What
59:39
can
59:39
we
59:39
do
59:39
about
59:39
it?
59:40
Or
59:40
how
59:40
am
59:40
I
59:41
empowered
59:41
as
59:41
a
59:41
learner?
59:43
So
59:43
YouTube
59:43
Elementary
59:44
School.
59:45
My
59:45
website
59:45
is
59:46
the
59:46
elementary
59:47
school.com
59:49
and
59:50
I
59:50
have
59:50
a
59:50
new
59:50
substack
59:52
where
59:52
I
59:52
have
59:52
a
59:53
newsletter
59:54
which
59:54
is
59:54
elementary
59:55
schoolubstack.com
59:57
and
59:57
I
59:57
think
59:58
the
59:59
name
1:00:00
of
1:00:00
my
1:00:00
newsletter
1:00:01
and
1:00:01
will
1:00:02
be
1:00:02
my
1:00:02
video
1:00:02
podcast
1:00:03
too
1:00:03
is
1:00:04
advances
1:00:04
tolerated
1:00:06
because
1:00:07
we,
1:00:10
we
1:00:10
kind
1:00:10
of
1:00:11
feel
1:00:11
like
1:00:11
a
1:00:12
person
1:00:12
on
1:00:12
a
1:00:12
conveyor
1:00:13
belt
1:00:13
at
1:00:13
times.
1:00:14
Enter
1:00:14
med
1:00:14
school
1:00:15
and
1:00:15
then
1:00:15
you
1:00:15
just
1:00:15
kind
1:00:16
of
1:00:16
conveyor
1:00:17
belt
1:00:17
your
1:00:17
way
1:00:17
into
1:00:17
your
1:00:18
job
1:00:18
and
1:00:18
you're
1:00:18
like
1:00:19
all
1:00:19
right
1:00:20
now
1:00:20
what?
1:00:21
I
1:00:21
hope
1:00:21
I
1:00:21
got
1:00:22
equipped
1:00:22
correctly
1:00:23
on
1:00:23
the
1:00:23
way
1:00:23
or
1:00:24
adequately
1:00:24
on
1:00:24
the
1:00:25
way.
1:00:25
And
1:00:26
I
1:00:26
think
1:00:27
if
1:00:27
I
1:00:27
can
1:00:27
help
1:00:28
provide
1:00:29
learners
1:00:30
especially
1:00:30
or
1:00:31
you
1:00:31
know,
1:00:31
my
1:00:31
peers
1:00:33
with
1:00:34
insights,
1:00:35
advice,
1:00:35
tips
1:00:36
and
1:00:36
tricks,
1:00:36
just
1:00:37
anecdotes
1:00:38
that
1:00:39
help
1:00:39
them
1:00:40
advance
1:00:41
whether
1:00:41
through
1:00:42
medical
1:00:42
training
1:00:42
or
1:00:43
into
1:00:43
their
1:00:43
career
1:00:45
in
1:00:45
a
1:00:46
easily
1:00:46
digestible
1:00:47
format,
1:00:48
then
1:00:49
I
1:00:49
think
1:00:50
I
1:00:51
think
1:00:51
I'm
1:00:51
really
1:00:51
staying
1:00:52
on
1:00:52
my
1:00:52
mission.
1:00:53
And
1:00:54
and
1:00:54
I
1:00:54
think
1:00:54
that's
1:00:55
those
1:00:55
are
1:00:55
the
1:00:55
places
1:00:56
you
1:00:56
can
1:00:56
find
1:00:56
me
1:00:56
and
1:00:57
stay
1:00:57
tuned.
1:00:58
I
1:00:59
love
1:00:59
it.
1:00:59
That's
1:00:59
also
1:00:59
like
1:01:00
a
1:01:00
pun
1:01:00
about
1:01:01
scopes
1:01:01
though,
1:01:01
right?
1:01:02
Like,
1:01:02
oh,
1:01:03
yeah,
1:01:03
like
1:01:04
it's
1:01:04
part
1:01:04
of
1:01:04
my,
1:01:05
part
1:01:05
of
1:01:05
my
1:01:06
professional
1:01:06
contract,
1:01:07
like
1:01:07
when
1:01:07
I
1:01:08
became
1:01:08
a
1:01:08
pediatric
1:01:09
GI
1:01:09
doc
1:01:09
was
1:01:09
like,
1:01:09
you
1:01:10
have
1:01:10
to
1:01:10
insert
1:01:11
at
1:01:11
least
1:01:11
two
1:01:11
to
1:01:11
three
1:01:12
puns
1:01:12
into
1:01:12
conversation
1:01:13
or
1:01:13
practice
1:01:15
in
1:01:15
a
1:01:15
given,
1:01:15
like
1:01:16
half
1:01:16
day
1:01:16
session.
1:01:16
I
1:01:17
think
1:01:17
that
1:01:17
is
1:01:18
an
1:01:19
obligation.
1:01:20
It's,
1:01:20
it's
1:01:20
like
1:01:20
in
1:01:21
your
1:01:21
writer,
1:01:21
if
1:01:21
you
1:01:21
will.
1:01:22
Like,
1:01:22
yeah,
1:01:23
that's
1:01:23
great.
1:01:25
So
1:01:26
good.
1:01:26
All
1:01:26
right.
1:01:27
My
1:01:27
last
1:01:27
question
1:01:27
I
1:01:27
always
1:01:28
ask
1:01:29
is
1:01:29
thinking
1:01:30
about
1:01:30
the
1:01:30
audience,
1:01:31
which
1:01:32
some
1:01:32
are
1:01:32
learners
1:01:33
too,
1:01:33
actually,
1:01:34
and
1:01:34
others
1:01:34
are,
1:01:35
you
1:01:35
know,
1:01:35
just
1:01:35
lifelong
1:01:36
learners
1:01:36
working
1:01:36
in
1:01:36
healthcare
1:01:37
or
1:01:37
adjacent
1:01:38
fields
1:01:38
that
1:01:38
are
1:01:38
like
1:01:40
they're
1:01:40
feeling
1:01:40
dehumanized.
1:01:41
They're
1:01:41
feeling
1:01:42
like
1:01:42
they
1:01:43
don't
1:01:43
know
1:01:43
how
1:01:43
to
1:01:43
be
1:01:43
them,
1:01:44
their
1:01:44
full
1:01:45
selves
1:01:45
in
1:01:45
their
1:01:45
workplace
1:01:46
because
1:01:46
of
1:01:46
the
1:01:47
pressures
1:01:47
of
1:01:47
the
1:01:47
system.
1:01:48
And
1:01:48
I
1:01:48
can
1:01:49
see,
1:01:49
like
1:01:49
that's
1:01:49
the
1:01:50
reason
1:01:50
I
1:01:51
imagine
1:01:51
people
1:01:51
struggle
1:01:52
with
1:01:52
feedback
1:01:52
is
1:01:52
because
1:01:53
they
1:01:53
think
1:01:53
other
1:01:54
things
1:01:54
have
1:01:54
to
1:01:54
come
1:01:54
first.
1:01:55
The,
1:01:55
you
1:01:55
know,
1:01:56
that
1:01:56
sort
1:01:56
of
1:01:56
thing.
1:01:56
So
1:01:57
any
1:01:58
words
1:01:58
of
1:01:58
wisdom
1:01:59
or
1:01:59
encouragement
1:01:59
you
1:02:00
want
1:02:00
to
1:02:00
give
1:02:00
to
1:02:00
those
1:02:01
listening
1:02:01
who
1:02:02
may
1:02:02
you
1:02:02
maybe
1:02:02
have
1:02:02
heard
1:02:03
they
1:02:03
listen
1:02:03
to
1:02:03
a
1:02:03
podcast.
1:02:04
They're
1:02:04
like,
1:02:04
okay,
1:02:05
but
1:02:06
I'm,
1:02:07
I
1:02:07
don't,
1:02:07
I'm
1:02:08
nervous
1:02:08
about
1:02:08
it.
1:02:08
Or
1:02:08
I'm
1:02:08
feeling
1:02:09
so
1:02:09
stressed.
1:02:09
Like,
1:02:10
what
1:02:10
would
1:02:11
advice
1:02:11
would
1:02:12
you
1:02:12
want
1:02:12
to
1:02:12
give
1:02:12
them?
1:02:14
I
1:02:14
think
1:02:15
the.
1:02:17
I
1:02:17
talked
1:02:17
a
1:02:17
little
1:02:18
bit
1:02:18
about,
1:02:19
about
1:02:19
this
1:02:19
with
1:02:21
our
1:02:21
friend
1:02:21
and
1:02:22
colleague
1:02:22
Francis
1:02:22
May
1:02:23
Harden,
1:02:24
who's
1:02:24
been
1:02:24
on
1:02:24
your
1:02:24
podcast.
1:02:26
We're
1:02:26
workshopping
1:02:27
the
1:02:27
grammar
1:02:28
of
1:02:28
this.
1:02:29
But
1:02:29
my
1:02:30
concept
1:02:32
is
1:02:32
an
1:02:32
idea
1:02:33
that
1:02:33
just
1:02:33
kind
1:02:34
of
1:02:35
hit
1:02:35
me,
1:02:37
which
1:02:37
is
1:02:38
the
1:02:38
phrase
1:02:40
maybe
1:02:41
stop
1:02:41
focusing
1:02:41
on
1:02:42
if
1:02:42
you're
1:02:43
doing
1:02:43
good
1:02:43
enough
1:02:45
or
1:02:45
if
1:02:45
you
1:02:45
are
1:02:46
good
1:02:46
enough
1:02:46
and
1:02:47
think
1:02:47
about
1:02:47
if
1:02:47
you're
1:02:48
doing
1:02:48
enough
1:02:48
good.
1:02:51
Which
1:02:52
for
1:02:52
me
1:02:53
is
1:02:53
if
1:02:54
you're
1:02:54
listening
1:02:55
or
1:02:55
watching,
1:02:57
you're
1:02:58
probably
1:02:58
like
1:02:59
both
1:02:59
of
1:02:59
us,
1:03:00
like
1:03:00
everyone
1:03:01
thinking
1:03:02
at
1:03:02
some
1:03:02
point
1:03:03
through
1:03:03
imposter
1:03:04
syndrome.
1:03:04
Am
1:03:04
I
1:03:04
doing
1:03:05
good
1:03:05
enough
1:03:06
to
1:03:07
belong
1:03:07
next
1:03:08
to
1:03:08
these
1:03:08
giants?
1:03:09
Am
1:03:10
I
1:03:10
doing
1:03:10
good
1:03:10
enough
1:03:10
to
1:03:12
be
1:03:12
in
1:03:13
this
1:03:13
place,
1:03:14
to
1:03:14
have
1:03:14
this
1:03:15
promotion?
1:03:16
It
1:03:16
might
1:03:16
be
1:03:16
achievement
1:03:17
focus.
1:03:17
Am
1:03:17
I
1:03:18
doing
1:03:18
good
1:03:18
enough
1:03:18
to
1:03:18
be
1:03:19
an
1:03:19
associate
1:03:19
professor,
1:03:20
A
1:03:20
professor
1:03:20
to
1:03:20
hold
1:03:20
this
1:03:21
role,
1:03:21
to
1:03:21
be
1:03:21
tenured,
1:03:22
to
1:03:23
have
1:03:23
this
1:03:25
position
1:03:25
or
1:03:26
title.
1:03:27
And
1:03:28
it's
1:03:28
very,
1:03:28
I
1:03:29
think,
1:03:29
intrinsically
1:03:31
self
1:03:31
focused
1:03:33
in
1:03:34
thinking
1:03:34
about
1:03:34
feedback
1:03:35
and
1:03:35
the
1:03:35
rest
1:03:35
of
1:03:35
her
1:03:35
career.
1:03:36
If
1:03:36
we
1:03:37
shift
1:03:37
that
1:03:37
to
1:03:38
thinking
1:03:38
about
1:03:39
if
1:03:39
we're
1:03:39
affecting
1:03:40
enough
1:03:40
change,
1:03:41
doing
1:03:41
enough
1:03:42
good.
1:03:43
Yeah,
1:03:43
it
1:03:44
focuses
1:03:45
on
1:03:45
someone
1:03:45
else.
1:03:46
Yes.
1:03:47
Other
1:03:47
centric.
1:03:48
It's
1:03:49
service
1:03:49
oriented.
1:03:50
And
1:03:51
I
1:03:51
think
1:03:51
to
1:03:51
me,
1:03:53
if
1:03:53
I'm
1:03:53
having
1:03:53
feedback
1:03:54
with
1:03:54
someone,
1:03:55
is
1:03:55
my
1:03:55
feedback
1:03:56
good
1:03:56
enough?
1:03:57
Well,
1:03:58
maybe
1:03:58
if
1:03:58
I
1:03:58
say,
1:04:00
I
1:04:00
know
1:04:01
it
1:04:01
will
1:04:01
help
1:04:03
help
1:04:03
them
1:04:03
here
1:04:04
and
1:04:05
I
1:04:05
can
1:04:05
do
1:04:05
some
1:04:06
good,
1:04:07
that
1:04:07
is,
1:04:08
that
1:04:09
is
1:04:09
how
1:04:09
can
1:04:09
I
1:04:09
benefit
1:04:10
this
1:04:10
person
1:04:10
better
1:04:11
rather
1:04:12
than
1:04:12
how,
1:04:13
how
1:04:13
are
1:04:13
they
1:04:13
perceiving
1:04:14
what
1:04:14
I'm
1:04:15
saying?
1:04:15
It's
1:04:16
less
1:04:16
me,
1:04:16
it's
1:04:16
them.
1:04:18
It's
1:04:18
just
1:04:18
refocusing
1:04:19
on
1:04:19
your
1:04:20
why,
1:04:20
like
1:04:20
why
1:04:21
are
1:04:21
you
1:04:21
doing
1:04:21
it
1:04:21
to
1:04:21
begin
1:04:22
with?
1:04:22
Because
1:04:23
yes,
1:04:23
you
1:04:23
could
1:04:23
listen
1:04:24
to
1:04:24
a
1:04:24
whole
1:04:24
conversation
1:04:25
about
1:04:25
anything
1:04:26
like
1:04:26
giving
1:04:26
good
1:04:26
feedback
1:04:27
and
1:04:27
you
1:04:27
could
1:04:27
hear
1:04:27
great.
1:04:28
Another
1:04:28
thing
1:04:28
that
1:04:28
I
1:04:28
get
1:04:29
to
1:04:29
fail
1:04:29
at
1:04:30
and
1:04:30
even
1:04:31
sometimes
1:04:31
sort
1:04:31
of
1:04:31
socializing
1:04:32
can
1:04:32
condition
1:04:32
to
1:04:33
think
1:04:33
that
1:04:33
way
1:04:33
and
1:04:33
it
1:04:33
just
1:04:34
doesn't
1:04:34
serve
1:04:34
us
1:04:35
or
1:04:35
anyone
1:04:35
else
1:04:35
because
1:04:36
now
1:04:36
we
1:04:36
are
1:04:36
just
1:04:37
anxious.
1:04:37
We're
1:04:37
worried,
1:04:38
we
1:04:38
forget
1:04:39
that
1:04:39
probably
1:04:39
we're
1:04:40
doing
1:04:40
a
1:04:40
pretty
1:04:40
good
1:04:40
job
1:04:41
already,
1:04:42
honestly
1:04:42
and
1:04:42
already
1:04:43
doing
1:04:43
lots
1:04:43
of
1:04:43
good
1:04:43
in
1:04:43
the
1:04:44
world.
1:04:44
And
1:04:45
so
1:04:45
while
1:04:46
we're
1:04:46
doing
1:04:46
that
1:04:46
good,
1:04:47
how
1:04:47
can
1:04:47
we
1:04:47
be
1:04:48
most
1:04:48
effective?
1:04:48
Probably
1:04:49
in
1:04:49
a
1:04:49
way
1:04:49
that
1:04:49
ends
1:04:50
up
1:04:50
saving
1:04:50
us
1:04:50
time,
1:04:50
energy
1:04:51
and
1:04:51
making
1:04:51
it
1:04:52
more
1:04:52
pleasurable
1:04:53
for
1:04:53
everyone.
1:04:54
Like
1:04:54
your
1:04:54
approach
1:04:54
sounds
1:04:55
like
1:04:55
it'll
1:04:55
be
1:04:55
kind
1:04:56
of
1:04:56
more
1:04:56
fun
1:04:56
to
1:04:56
do
1:04:57
so
1:04:57
if
1:04:58
we're
1:04:58
focused
1:04:58
on
1:04:58
like
1:04:58
the
1:04:59
good
1:04:59
we're
1:04:59
doing
1:04:59
through
1:05:00
our
1:05:00
actions
1:05:01
versus
1:05:02
how
1:05:02
others
1:05:02
might
1:05:02
perceive
1:05:03
us.
1:05:04
Such
1:05:04
an
1:05:04
important
1:05:04
shift
1:05:05
to
1:05:05
always
1:05:05
be
1:05:05
reminded
1:05:06
of.
1:05:06
Thank
1:05:06
you
1:05:06
so
1:05:06
much.
1:05:07
Oh
1:05:08
of
1:05:08
course,
1:05:08
of
1:05:09
course.
1:05:09
This
1:05:09
has
1:05:09
been
1:05:10
a
1:05:10
great
1:05:10
conversation.
1:05:10
Thank
1:05:11
you
1:05:11
for
1:05:11
having
1:05:11
me.
1:05:11
And,
1:05:13
and,
1:05:14
and
1:05:14
talking
1:05:15
about
1:05:15
something
1:05:15
that
1:05:15
I
1:05:15
think
1:05:16
is
1:05:16
needs
1:05:17
to
1:05:17
be
1:05:18
talked
1:05:18
about
1:05:19
more.
1:05:19
It
1:05:19
needs
1:05:20
to
1:05:20
be
1:05:20
everywhere.
1:05:21
This
1:05:21
is
1:05:21
ubiquitous.
1:05:22
It's
1:05:22
not
1:05:22
just
1:05:23
education
1:05:23
is
1:05:24
it
1:05:24
is
1:05:25
business.
1:05:26
It
1:05:26
is
1:05:27
your
1:05:27
day
1:05:27
to
1:05:27
day.
1:05:27
It's
1:05:28
as
1:05:28
a
1:05:28
professional
1:05:29
and
1:05:29
honestly
1:05:30
as
1:05:30
a
1:05:30
person.
1:05:32
So
1:05:32
important.
1:05:33
So
1:05:33
important.
1:05:34
I
1:05:34
so
1:05:34
agree.
1:05:35
All
1:05:35
right,
1:05:35
well
1:05:35
thanks
1:05:36
everyone.
1:05:36
Definitely
1:05:37
go
1:05:37
follow
1:05:37
follow
1:05:38
Paul
1:05:38
in
1:05:38
all
1:05:38
the
1:05:38
places
1:05:39
with
1:05:39
the
1:05:39
puns
1:05:41
and
1:05:41
for
1:05:41
everyone
1:05:42
listening,
1:05:42
thanks
1:05:42
again
1:05:43
for
1:05:43
joining
1:05:43
us
1:05:44
and
1:05:45
talk
1:05:45
to
1:05:45
you
1:05:45
next
1:05:46
week.
1:05:47
Bye
1:05:48
bye.
1:05:53
I
1:05:53
would
1:05:54
love
1:05:54
to
1:05:54
take
1:05:54
this
1:05:54
work
1:05:55
deeper
1:05:55
with
1:05:55
you.
1:05:56
Visit
1:05:56
joanchanmd.com
1:05:58
today
1:05:58
and
1:05:59
discover
1:05:59
my
1:06:00
growing
1:06:00
menu
1:06:01
of
1:06:01
options
1:06:02
for
1:06:02
restorative
1:06:03
medical
1:06:03
education
1:06:04
to
1:06:04
suit
1:06:04
your
1:06:05
learning
1:06:05
needs.
1:06:06
I
1:06:06
offer
1:06:06
one
1:06:07
on
1:06:07
one
1:06:07
coaching
1:06:08
customized
1:06:09
workshops
1:06:10
and
1:06:10
self
1:06:11
study
1:06:11
courses
1:06:12
that
1:06:12
allow
1:06:12
you
1:06:12
to
1:06:13
connect
1:06:13
not
1:06:13
only
1:06:13
with
1:06:14
my
1:06:14
work
1:06:14
on
1:06:14
a
1:06:14
deeper
1:06:15
level,
1:06:15
but
1:06:16
also
1:06:16
with
1:06:16
other
1:06:16
healthcare
1:06:17
humans
1:06:17
just
1:06:18
like
1:06:18
you.
1:06:19
So
1:06:19
if
1:06:19
you
1:06:20
want
1:06:20
to
1:06:20
start
1:06:21
humanizing
1:06:22
your
1:06:22
work
1:06:22
and
1:06:22
healthcare
1:06:23
to
1:06:23
a
1:06:23
deeper
1:06:24
level
1:06:24
and
1:06:24
do
1:06:25
it
1:06:25
in
1:06:25
community
1:06:25
with
1:06:25
others,
1:06:26
please
1:06:27
visit
1:06:27
joanchanmd.com
1:06:29
and
1:06:29
find
1:06:30
those
1:06:30
options
1:06:30
and
1:06:31
what
1:06:31
fits
1:06:31
you
1:06:32
and
1:06:32
your
1:06:32
life
1:06:32
today.