Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 212 - Luis Pena - Founder & CEO Evommune

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Episode 212 - Luis Pena - Founder & CEO Evommune · The BioHub - by Avetix

• 0:06
  So welcome back to another episode of the Bio Hub and
• 0:09
  Avetics podcast. Today I'm joined by Louis Pena,
• 0:13
  Co founder, president and CEO of Evermune.
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  Louis has spent more than 30 years in biosecond pharma,
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  starting his career as a chemist at Genentech before moving into
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  start-ups where he's played a key role in building and scaling
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  multiple companies. He previously Co founded Demira,
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  which was acquired by Li Lily for over $1 billion.
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  Now he's leading Ever Immune, a company focused on developing
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  new therapies to tackle chronic information, one of the biggest
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  underlying drivers of disease globally.
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  In this conversation, we talk about his journey into
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  start-ups, the inspirations behind Ever Immune, the
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  challenges of stepping into the CEO role, and what it takes to
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  build in today's biotech environment.
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  It's a pleasure to have you, Lewis.
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  How are you? I'm doing very well and thank
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  you so much for having me. I'm I'm excited.
• 1:00
  No, it's awesome. I'm really glad to have you
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  here. I, I want to start right at the
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  beginning of your career where where I said you, you start as a
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  chemist at Genentech and then you, you fairly early in your
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  career moved into start-ups. What?
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  What pulled you away from big pharma into a smaller biotech
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  world? Yeah, I, I started at Genentech
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  as a biochemist, molecular biologist and it was a great
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  training ground. I mean, Genentech at the time
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  was really the biotech company in the world and eventually it
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  was acquired by Rochebeth. For many years it was the leader
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  and, and not just in biotech. And I think for about 10 years
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  or so, the talent that had come in there was so incredible that
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  it was actually the number one sighted entity in the world in
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  terms of journals. It was, it was absolutely
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  incredible. We were helping the FDA
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  established procedures for new biotech manufacturing and so
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  forth. So really an incredible place.
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  And I spent the 1st 12 years of my career there.
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  And by the time I left an Ntech, I was managing the
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  cardiovascular portfolio and Zolair and, you know, just, and,
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  and had incredible training, by the way.
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  It's just, it's one of the, I'll always remember back fondly of
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  the people and, and Genentech and, but just, it, it became
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  time or I had this feeling that I wanted to wear multiple hats,
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  be more involved in smaller, more nimble companies.
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  And, and that feeling has never really gone away.
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  It's, it's, and that's why I've been involved.
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  Once I left Genentech, I, I had a series of startups and, and
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  once they start to get big and successful and I feel like, hey,
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  I'm, I'm on to my next one. So that was really the genesis,
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  but I of moving to startups. But I, I really enjoyed the time
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  with Genentech and, and really without that training, without
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  the experience, without seeing what success look like there, it
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  would have been very difficult for me to be successful in the
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  startup world. Yeah, I love that.
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  I mean, what do you think it is about start World that you enjoy
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  so much? Yeah, I think it's just the the
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  challenge of building something, especially if you start very
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  early. I've had the opportunity.
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  I was at what's now Therabands. I think I was a 14th employee
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  there. Obviously it was one of the
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  first four at Dermera being a Co founder was the 1st at ever mean
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  It's it's that just the genesis of of something new.
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  You've got these great ideas and you're really are on to to
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  building something and it really takes a different mindset.
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  And one of the things I found out especially when I first, my
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  very first startup at Theravance is while a big pharma or a big
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  biotech company, it's kind of like a panel of buttons to push.
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  They're very well established, they're great departments
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  everywhere. There's expertise everywhere and
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  you need something or you have to accomplish something and you
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  push 3 or 4 buttons and things start happening.
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  When you're at a startup, you are the buttons, there's nowhere
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  to go. And that that is a different
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  mindset, that is a different type of expertise.
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  And, and really you have to be pretty courageous sometimes.
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  And, and so I like that I like to be pushed and I like the fact
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  that I really needed to learn things to adept where I could
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  really carry with the expertise myself.
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  And it's very different. There's a lot of people that
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  have a very tough time making the transition, but it really
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  when you're at a startup, it really falls on you.
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  There's nowhere to go, there's no buttons to push to help you.
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  You really have to make it happen and and I've always
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  enjoyed that. Yeah.
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  Do you think it takes a different kind of personality to
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  thrive in a start up in comparison to what it would be
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  in in a big pharma company? Yeah, absolutely.
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  There there's a really two or three different characteristics
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  that are key. Number one I I think is courage.
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  You have to be courageous because when you're at a
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  startup, you usually have anywhere between one to three
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  years of capital left. So in that time frame, you have
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  to make something happen. We're at a big pharma.
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  You, you really that you're under different kind of
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  pressure. It's, it's longer term, you're
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  really are taking less risk. So, so it's a pretty risky
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  endeavour to think, hey, I have one or three years to make
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  something happen here. Otherwise, you know, we may not
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  get more capital. So I think that that is, that is
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  really key. And then, you know, the, the
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  ability to, to really have the courage again, to be able to
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  take on things where it's on you there.
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  There's nowhere to hide a big biotech, big pharma company.
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  There's a lot of systems, there's a lot of redundancy
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  that's built in and rightly so. There's these big companies that
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  that need it and even multiple people in your department when
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  you're at a startup, you are it. And so if you are a regulatory
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  person or a clinical person or you're running preclinical
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  studies, there's usually not a second layer.
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  So you have to be comfortable enough in your own skin that,
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  hey, I, I can handle, I can handle that.
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  And, and so, you know, I make sure I've, I've interviewed the
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  first almost now 60 people in the company will probably do so
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  up to about 150 because culture is so important to me.
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  But you know, there's, there's three things that I always tell
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  people coming in at the startup world and it's, it's not just
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  ever mean, but ever mean. We value this very highly is 1
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  You're easy to work with. So if you're, if you're not easy
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  to work with, then you're, you're, you're not going to last
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  year because it's we're taking on problems that are so complex
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  already. We don't need to add the, the
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  drama of of the, the personal relationships to it.
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  Two, you have to have the skill set to do your job.
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  And back in like around 21 when we had the bubble, many people
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  stretched into big titles and, and when you do that at a
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  startup, you can find yourself in trouble because again, you
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  have to carry your, your part of the organization and, and then
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  there's nowhere to hide. And then three, you have to be
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  willing to work really hard. There's again, nowhere to hide,
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  but like there may be in a bigger company where there's a
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  lot of support systems and so forth.
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  So, so you're pretty exposed from the perspective of you have
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  to make things happen in a limited time frame and you have
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  to be the one to make the things happen.
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  So, but it's, if you like that and you'll thrive because it's,
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  it's fun. There's, there's a camaraderie
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  around that. And, and you achieve these
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  milestones and, and you really see, you really see this thing
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  budding and burgeoning and, and becoming something cool and,
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  and, and the ability then to go from there and start to build
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  the company to be something more complex is, is super rewarding.
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  Yeah, I like that. And when you were talking about
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  different roles of each individual and taking
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  responsibility for what you're doing it it it's quite, this is
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  your first role as ACEO as well. And you've been in the seat for
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  what, several years now? What what were some of the
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  biggest challenges and surprises for you in that role?
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  I. Mean I, you know, I, so I had a
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  pretty good background from the perspective I had been in the
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  C-Suite, I had been a Co founder, I had talked to a lot
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  of investors. So a lot of what I needed to do
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  or the instinct to do the things I needed to do were already
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  there. And, and I had a lot of good
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  leadership training starting from very early on at Genentech.
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  So from that perspective, it's pretty comfortable.
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  I think, you know, maybe the thing that surprised me a little
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  bit, even though I understood it's, it's a pretty stressful
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  job. I mean, being the CEO of a
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  biotech company has to be right up there with one of the most
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  stressful jobs in the world. It it's such a high risk
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  business. The cool thing is we're trying
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  to do amazing things, right? You're trying to develop these
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  new therapies that hopefully will change peoples lives
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  forever. And that is so ultimately
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  rewarding that it's very easy to fall back on that and say, oh,
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  you know, I'm so stressed right now.
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  This is so hard. But that is our goal.
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  And and so, you know, keep your eye on the goal and, and that
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  makes it all worthwhile, honestly.
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  And so, so yeah, you just have to just realize that it's a very
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  stressful job. It's it's never ending in terms
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  of the challenges. As you know, for, for biotechs,
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  there's a lot of failure. Most programs fail.
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  And so you just have to be willing to live with that and,
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  and really have again, the courage to, to manage through
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  it. So and, and I knew that, but I
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  think I was surprised at how stressful it really is.
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  There's always something coming and going.
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  So I think the important thing is to manage that well.
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  So, you know, for me, I, I work really, really hard on just
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  mental health and, and just mental health management being
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  balanced, not letting it get to you.
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  And if there's a day where it is, then go for a run or, you
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  know, go take some time offs really key, even even every day.
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  Having something where you balance where you are as a
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  person is really key. And I have an executive coach
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  and, and I tell her, you know, I know how to run the business.
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  Just keep me mentally healthy and, and, you know, and balanced
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  so that I can be the best leader I can for the company and, and
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  do all the problem solving that we need to do.
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  So I think that that's what caught me a little bit by
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  surprise, even though I knew that it was going to be very,
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  very difficult. But, and when you're in it,
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  it's, it's, it's quite shocking and, but, but you know, you, you
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  fall back on your expertise, on your leadership, on the vision
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  and, and that carries a day. Yeah, because you, you, you've
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  had your fair share of successes.
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  It's to say the least. You know I mentioned in the
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  intro the the Demera and being acquired by a Lily for for $1.1
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  billion are the other specific things from those successes that
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  you really did take into ever mean?
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  Yeah. I mean, I think perseverance and
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  because we are in in a very risky environment and I learned
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  this very early on in Genentech. And one of the things that I've
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  had the privilege throughout my career is to work with some
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  amazing people and amazing CEOs at Genentech.
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  It was Bob Swanson who was the original founder and then it was
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  Art Levinson who now is the chairman of Apple and, and, and
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  running Calico, you know, amazing company.
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  And you know, very early on they had, they were very focused on
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  those 3 principles that I talked about be easy to work with.
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  And one of the things I was very impressed at Art Levinson coming
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  out of research because he really was a deep research guy,
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  one of the best. And I always thought how, how is
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  art going to progress into, into running a company?
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  But he was incredible. And the first thing he did was
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  if there was any very difficult person to work with, especially
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  a manager across the company, he had those people moved either to
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  a better role for them or out of the company.
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  And that was incredibly powerful for the people who are being
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  oppressed by these managers. So that was very cool.
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  But secondly, the the concept is that you have to run a
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  portfolio, you have to run multiple programs.
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  Each one has a probability of success.
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  And so very early on, one, maybe one out of 10 programs at best
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  makes it in biotech. So you have to be focusing on,
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  I'm probably going to need at some point in this company to
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  run 10 programs to make one work.
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  Now, if you're savvy about it, you can probably narrow that
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  down to about six or eight programs, but you have to have
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  the reality in your mind that that's what you're going to do.
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  So you manage your portfolio and then you have to have the
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  perseverance around it because you know, it's hard.
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  It's hard. And then we have, we've already
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  gone through it here. Our very first clinical outcome
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  was not what we wanted to be. It had some activity, but it
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  needed to have a certain profile for it to be a competitive
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  program and it didn't. And so in a very disciplined
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  way, we killed that program and we've probably killed three or
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  four programs, some of them very early on.
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  And the earlier the better. But you have to have that kind
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  of discipline and the perseverance to know that if
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  something doesn't work, you've lined up multiple other things
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  that can work. And, and because the life cycle
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  takes so long, the perseverance component of it is very
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  important. And that you started something,
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  you know, two or three years before you get to the data
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  readout. That's key for a certain
• 14:50
  program. So you're close with the next
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  one vitally important, otherwise you're not going to make it so.
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  So perseverance and the understanding that because most
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  of these programs fail, you better always be working on a
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  handful. So we've done that and we've
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  done it in a very disciplined way.
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  And now we have two programs in in middle stage clinical
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  development that look pretty good.
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  And even though the first one didn't work and it's that, that
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  perseverance component and the understanding of what you're up
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  against and, and to have the, the, the portfolio to be able
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  to, to make something happening out of the perseverance.
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  Is there also an element of just looking at where the market is
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  heading and being reactive to, to constant shifts in science
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  capital, you know, that that kind of thing and, and just
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  making sure you're not left behind in any sort of way you
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  look at these buzzwords like AI, etcetera.
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  There's obviously other examples as well in the Market 1. 100%
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  and the investors will let you know about it.
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  I mean, so you know, we, we live on capital and until we get to
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  an approval on a product and can actually commercialize it, you
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  need your investors and, and it's great to have that kind of
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  ability to raise capital. And by the way, and I, I say
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  this any, every opportunity I can.
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  So here it goes. Innovation is really the
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  superpower in the United States. I mean, it's really what hands
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  down we're better at than any other country in the world.
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  And I think it's because we've allowed the environment for, for
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  that to happen. And, and there's the capital
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  flow, the money flow to, to make it happen and to support people
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  and innovation. And so it is absolutely vital
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  for us to, to continue to keep that going.
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  It is, it is key in terms of, of what we do and, and, and it's
• 16:54
  really our superpower. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 16:58
  I couldn't agree more. I mean, you, you talked about
• 17:00
  fundraising there as well. You, you guys have had been
• 17:03
  pretty strong in the fundraising front.
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  What, what do you think is allowed ever immune to to stand
• 17:09
  out in what's been, well, a really competitive market at the
• 17:13
  moment? Well, it's going back and you
• 17:16
  know, let's let's cover the the some points leftover on the last
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  question you asked about, you know, paying attention, paying
• 17:25
  attention to commercialization, what's out there.
• 17:28
  Competitors absolutely have to do that.
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  You know, there are and, and you also, I think you need an
• 17:37
  understanding of what you can accomplish with your capital.
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  So you're right, we have been successful up to this point and
• 17:47
  but you know, it's, it's a limited amount of capital.
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  So even though we raise, you know, now it's getting close to
• 17:53
  half a billion or we may be there, but but you know, when,
• 17:57
  when you have that much capital sounds like a lot, but there's
• 18:00
  really only so many programs and so many problems you can solve
• 18:04
  with that. And, and so you have to have a
• 18:07
  recognition that that is the case and you have to show
• 18:10
  success. These are very long life cycles.
• 18:13
  So it may take 7-8 years to get a drug approved, but you have to
• 18:16
  show good data points on that path.
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  And, and, and if you don't, you don't get the drug reprieve, but
• 18:23
  also you're not going to be able to raise capital.
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  So I think it's important to understand that not only where
• 18:30
  you're headed and to your point, whatever you're working on needs
• 18:35
  to be relevant. It needs to be relevant in terms
• 18:38
  of first and foremost helping patients.
• 18:41
  There's still a lot of unmet needs.
• 18:43
  We, we address chronic inflammation.
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  Chronic inflammation is still the number one healthcare
• 18:48
  problem in the world that kills, you know, 60% of the population.
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  And we need to, to do something about that.
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  And so that is a huge focus for us.
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  And, and we know that there are unsolved problems and
• 19:03
  inflammation and, and generally, if you follow that, everything
• 19:07
  else falls into place, meaning that there's an imminent need,
• 19:11
  that there will be a commercial need, that once the, the drug
• 19:16
  gets approved and that if you're showing progress on the path,
• 19:20
  then investors are going to support you.
• 19:23
  And, and so to your point, you absolutely have to be aware of
• 19:28
  all that. And, and I call it, you know,
• 19:31
  the, you have to listen to the chatter, the, the investors have
• 19:34
  a certain chatter out there and the data points and, and they
• 19:38
  can help guide you. And ultimately, you know, you
• 19:41
  have to guide yourself and, and you have to have the instincts
• 19:45
  to know what to follow. But it's, it's important to
• 19:48
  listen to the investors because they basically, well, they, they
• 19:52
  hold the capital, which is really important, but they have
• 19:56
  a good sense of what's happening in your field and what the
• 20:00
  competitors are doing, what the commercial environment is doing.
• 20:04
  And so that's actually super helpful.
• 20:06
  I mean, I pay a lot of close attention to that.
• 20:09
  Kind of like with your own AI in your mind.
• 20:13
  To make sure that you continuously learn because
• 20:15
  there's a lot to learn there and we've made I think some key
• 20:19
  adjustments to our business based on on what's needed.
• 20:22
  I think that's awesome. I think what you guys are doing
• 20:24
  is really exciting. I was really excited to get you
• 20:26
  on and talk about this kind of stuff, so thank you so much for
• 20:30
  doing that. Thank you so much for coming on,
• 20:32
  Lewis. It's been a pleasure.
• 20:34
  Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun, I really
• 20:37
  appreciate it. Good and look please everyone
• 20:40
  like and subscribe to the bio hub and and thank you so much
• 20:43
  again Lewis.