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Hebrews Part 40 - Simply Christ Podcast · Simply Christ Podcast

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We are ready to get started here.
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Welcome aboard to our Bible Study webinar where we inspect
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God's Word and let it transform our lives.
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Tonight we are going to spend an hour discussing out of the Word
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of God and see what the author meant and why God put it in
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there. Going to be an interesting
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discussion tonight on a subject that isn't written about a lot,
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so you can participate via the chat anytime you can type your
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questions or whatever, be happy to discuss those with you or
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everything else past recordings and links to our podcast on our
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You'll see all the information there that has to do with
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tonight's study. We are studying out of Hebrews.
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We are in chapter 12. We're going to start in verse 7
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tonight and kind of see what we can learn about being chastised.
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So with that, Melvin, would you open us with a word of prayer?
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Sure. Let's pray.
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Father, we praise you tonight. We thank you that we have this
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opportunity to study your word. And Father, I just pray that,
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yeah, your spirit, the Holy Spirit would guide us tonight,
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that your word could come forth as it is written and that we
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would not take anything out of it or add anything.
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And Father, that your word could be plant seeds in in people's
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lives that that those seeds would grow and, and there would
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be fruit coming from that because your word is powerful.
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And so we love your word and we thank you that you have given us
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your word. Thank you.
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You've given us your son Jesus to redeem us on the cross.
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And we praise you and honor you. You're so faithful and we're so
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glad that you have sent your son to die on the cross for our sins
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in Jesus name, Amen. Thank you.
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All right. So I was considering where we're
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at, just like taking a step back and in overview or retrospect
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here and looking at the whole picture of what the author, you
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know, we we kind of zoned in on we finished last week's study
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with her six, you know, talking about scourging every son whom
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he receiveth. And we talked about that a
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little bit and I got to keep for myself, like why are we talking
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about scourging? And if you go back, I mean, this
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is just a continuation of the faith chapter still.
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I mean, it looks to be almost like he is explaining the latter
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part of Chapter 11. Maybe you guys would disagree
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with that. I don't know.
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I didn't ask you before this, but you know, he goes, he goes
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and he talks about the faith of Isaac and and Joseph and, you
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know, Rahab and and all those. Then he switches over and says
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that boy, he doesn't have the time to write everything.
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All the names of the people that really probably should be in
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here. But there's also those that, you
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know, died by, you know, violent ways, swords and being saunas
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under a cruel, mocking, scourging, whatever, whatever,
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whatever. And then he goes into this think
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about scourging and I will be here for the next 6-7 verses, I
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think, or something like that. And I find that interesting on
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the heel heels of faith and the and the context that he has here
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with that. So anyway, we're going to read
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I'll read verse 7 and I'll turn it over to you, Aaron for your
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thoughts on it. It says if you endure chasted
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God deal with you as with sons or what son is he whom the
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father chasteeth not now just stop there.
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It kind of flows on. I kind of goes on and I don't
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know if we could talk a lot more about the next verses because
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they they kind of go together in a way, but there are separate
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sentences. So we'll do it that way now for
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tonight, but go ahead. There's basically two other
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places that I think's worthy of noting.
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First ones in First Corinthians 11 and verse 32, he says.
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But when you're judged, when we are judged, we are chastened of
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the Lord that we should not be condemned with the world.
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And then in Revelation 3 and verse 19, he says, as many as I
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love, I rebuke and chasten, be zealous therefore and repent.
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So I think that the thing I would point out is, and he's
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going to get, he's going to get to this anytime God is
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chastening, there is a purpose behind it and it is to bring you
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to a better place than what you were now.
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I don't know. I, I don't really, I wouldn't
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say I wouldn't personally. I wouldn't say I was trying to
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think about it after you said it.
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I wouldn't say that when he says that people were stoned or sawn
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asunder that that was a act of chastening.
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I don't know if that's what you were saying or not, but I
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wouldn't say that was an act of chastisement.
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But I do think that if you look at Abraham, if you look at
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Moses, if you look at whoever, just like any of those
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characters, you can see moments in which God did chasten them.
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David sins against God and he takes the child that was born
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out of that sin, right? He kills that child that him
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Bathsheba have out of that adultery that they committed.
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So if you look at any of those characters, they are there are
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times that you could maybe not every one of them, but most of
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them you could probably point to and say God did rebuke them in
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some way or he did chasing them in some way.
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But but my my main point, the reason I read those other two
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verses is God is saying I am not doing this.
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Like. What Well, actually, let me, let
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me rewind a little bit. He's going to get to this in
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just a second, but he's going to.
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But here's a great example. If I, I mean, I don't know, I'm,
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I'm not saying I've never done this, but I'm certainly not in
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the habit of doing this. But if I have a horrible day at
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work, if I mean, if I've just had this horrible day at work
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and I come home, you know, just extremely frustrated with
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whatever it is and I rebuke or even chasing one of my kids for
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something out of that anger, then that wasn't for their
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prophet. It was my own fault, right?
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In other words, I'm just angry at something else.
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And I come home and I chasing them out of my own, as he's
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going to say, out of my own pleasure.
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But when God chastens apart, he's not doing it because he's
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mad at the devil or he's not doing it because it didn't go
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the way he wanted to somewhere else in the universe.
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He's doing it for your prophet, right?
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He's doing it out of love for your benefit.
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And I think that's the point of verse 7.
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If you endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons,
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for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
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In other words, it's like anytime should be anytime that
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you are correcting a child, it should be for their profit.
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That may not be like I said, it may be out of your own anger you
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may have that all kinds of things fester up that's caused
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you to finally do it. But the real purpose is for
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their benefit. You are directing them in the
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right way. You are trying to point them
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away from evil or towards good or whatever the case may be.
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And and I think that's his point here is God's dealing with you
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as a as with a son, not as with a object to take his anger out
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for something else on it's like a son.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I agree with that 100%.
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And as far as what I, the point I made, I guess I didn't really
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finish that is that I believe that whether, whether they were
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faithful in on the good side or faithful to the death in the bad
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side, we could know by, by his writing here that he, he's
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making the point, I guess, that if you're a son of his, you will
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be chastised. You know, that's just a, a part
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of being a son because he loves you and he wants you to do the
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right thing. So if these people were in the
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faith chapter, I'm sure that there was a time where they got
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chastised. You know, I would, I would agree
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with you that it's not necessarily the death or
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whatever that that probably was not a result of a chastisement.
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You know, that would be unfair chastisement for, you know.
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Well, and it actually wouldn't even make sense because they
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couldn't if if they died in chastisement, they couldn't
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improve. Like exactly.
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Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, yeah.
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Anyway, so I just wanted to clarify that I just someone that
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is faithful, that is a faithful son or a daughter of the most
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high God will, you know, not probably, but will endure some
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kind of chastisement because we don't know the way always.
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And that's one of the ways that God guides us.
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No, no, no, totally. Go ahead, Melvin.
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Yeah. So I agree with everything that
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you're saying, Aaron and Leon, about this.
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So when I look at this, I see this because I was scrolling
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through and looking at the different Greek words and you
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know all that. And it looks to me like, OK,
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like you said, he's still talking.
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We're still talking about faith, right?
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Faith in Christ and not in the law.
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Like they wanted to go back to the law.
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And so to me, he's like making a point here.
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I'm not sure why he has so many verses about it, but he is
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driving home the fact that this faith in Christ is a
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relationship with Christ and with God.
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Where the law was, it was a letter, it was the law.
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There was not a actual relationship with God and with
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Christ. Because if you think about it,
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he's referring here to God chastising you as a son, right?
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He's not saying because you know, you are part of me or what
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it is because you're a son. He's he's he's saying it.
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He's using a term that is a relational term.
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He's calling us sons and daughters.
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And so and he's also referring to our physical fathers, right?
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So he's using that as showing us and to me, that when he
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chastises us, it is because he loves us, because he we are his
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sons and his daughters. And it's not necessarily that
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it's a bad thing. It might seem, you know, it says
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it, it doesn't seem joyous or whatever, which it never does,
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even when our physical fathers chastise us.
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But if you look up that word chastise it, the other words
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that are used for that word are to tutor or to teach, to walk
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alongside. So I think and it does also mean
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discipline like it can, it also is used as physical discipline.
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So I think it, sometimes it, it can be all of those things,
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right? We, when we think of
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chastisement, we think of just the whip or when we are paddling
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or using the rod. But that's not always the case.
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Chastisement can also mean not necessarily using the rod, but
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when you're teaching your child or you're saying you're walking
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alongside of him and correcting him when he's going wrong
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direction. Because you know, I remember
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very vividly when I was young, probably 16 or so, my dad, I
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just remember this account as it was yesterday.
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I don't know why, but I forget a lot of other things, but I never
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forgot this. My dad, I, I wanted cowboy boots
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because all my friends had cowboy boots and my dad had this
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thing with cowboy boots. He didn't think it's necessary,
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whatever and he didn't want me. He told me I'm not allowed to
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get cowboy boots. And I was very like, I got very
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disrespectful to him about that. Like I'd said some really bad
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things and I was very upset and angry at my dad and, and he just
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told me that, you know, if you're going to act like that,
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then you know, you, I don't want you acting like that.
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You're just not going to go wherever.
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I was going to go on Saturday evening, hang out with the youth
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or whatever. And and then I was really mad,
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you know, but afterwards, after I, you know, calm down and
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everything, I, I actually respected my dad for doing that
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to me. But and he didn't, you know, I
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was 15. So he didn't use the rod on me.
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But I'm just telling you that saying that story to say this,
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that it's not what we think as a physical chastisement always is
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what he's referring to here. It is what I see.
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So, and, and when you look at that, where that word or it
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says, and I don't know if you're going to get us to go through
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those, Leon, but where he says there that our, our fathers have
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done it for their pleasure, for their own pleasure.
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I looked up where that word is used in the Bible in other areas
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and it is always used for most times it's used as to think of
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or it seemed good. Or in other words, it seems to
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me like our fathers were doing that to us for our good.
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Like it what they're thought would be good for the betterment
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of me, Right. And so, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, that's good. I I agree.
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I just looked up the Webster's 1818 definition of chastise.
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And to correct by punishing or to punish is 1 definition.
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The other is to to order, to obedience, to restrain.
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And then another one is to correct, to purify by expunging
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fault. You know, so I've had, I've had
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all three of those. Yeah, my life, you know, and I
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tell you, yeah, in a lot of ways I probably respected the, the
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verbal ones more than anything. In a lot of ways, like I, I
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remember working for a guy and I broke his lawn guard, his
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tractor, broke his transmission at his lawn tractor.
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And I just knew he was going to be really, really upset.
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And he just, he just told me, he said, oh, well, you know,
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accidents happen. I know that you feel bad about
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it. And he couldn't have, he
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couldn't have done anything in the world that affected me more
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than those kind words because I, I knew that he saw that I was
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sorry, even, I don't even know if I said that, but he
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recognized that. And that was wow, that if that
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was, that was effective. And that was a very, you know,
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that was a very nice, but that was a reprimand right there.
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So. Well, I think, and I think God
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does the same thing sometimes, at least in my own life, you
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know, if I'm being obnoxious and and I'm just like being selfish
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and walking in the flesh and and just not, you know, at all being
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sorry or repented. I think God puts more puts
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pressure on us. He he just does.
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I would expect him to according to these verses.
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That's right. OK, but if he be without
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chastisement whereof all are partakers, then are you bastards
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and not sons? I would I just want to say real
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quick. I mean, I think most of the
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people that would listen it. I mean that is a word that has a
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bad connotation because of the way it gets used a lot, but it's
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actually biblically, it's just talking about a child that is
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illegitimate. It was born out of wedlock or
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whatever and or gained some other way.
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I mean, there's different kind of depends I and and so that
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that just he's all he's saying here is if you're an actual son,
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that's right, actual son, then you would expect to be chastise.
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But go ahead, Eric. Yeah, I know.
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I I think that's probably sufficient for the verse.
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I mean that's that is the point of the verse, like you said is
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an actual son is going to get to rebuke of the father, whereas
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one that's not actually a son may not.
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And and we could probably see that, you know, that a step
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parent would be afraid or maybe not afraid is probably the wrong
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word, certainly wrong context for this verse, but just there's
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not going. To be.
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The the as Melvin said early, the relationship there to do
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that with, you know, like there would be with your actual
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father. And that's that's kind of what I
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think he's playing on is the relationship side of this is an
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actual son compared to one that's I'll that's not really.
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Yep, that's good, Velvet. Any additional thoughts on that?
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No, I think he covered. It well OK verse 9.
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Furthermore, we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us
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and we gave them reverence. Shall we not much rather be in
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subjected unto the father of spirits and live again goes back
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to the very very much on a on a personal level.
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Their relationship is the key thing, Aaron.
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Yeah, well, I do think it points out that's why I read those
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other two verses. The one there in First
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Corinthians and also in Revelations is the point of
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God's chastisement is life, right, Right.
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I mean, think about the verse he says we gave our fathers of our
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flesh, which corrected us. We gave them reverence, shall we
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not much rather be in subjection under the father of spirits and
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live like that's the result of heeding the chastisement, right
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is life. You know what I mean?
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I mean like and I know that's maybe seemingly too simple, but
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that's really the point, right? I mean that that is what I
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really see in that verse is that is the result of heeding and
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respecting and being in subjection to what God would
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rebuke you with. Is there life comes from that
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you know, like it the Father's Pierce and live.
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You know, it's a question. Shouldn't you do that and get
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life out of that and live because of right?
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Yeah, I all I'm going to say is that, you know, so when I read
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this, I think, you know, you said they get you to God wants
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us to give us life. A lot of people, the reason that
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they don't want to be Christians or give their life to Christ is
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they think that somehow it's going to hinder them like to
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keep doing what they want to do. And and so that's, that's not
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totally true, but that it's because it says here, would you
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much rather be in subjection under the father of spirits and
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live? And some people would look at
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that and think, well, I don't want to be in subjection, you
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know, I want to be my own person.
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I want to do what I want to do, you know, And so, but hey,
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think, think about this again, He's talking about relationship
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here and think about your own father.
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And I maybe, maybe some people listen to this.
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Maybe they didn't have a father figure in their life.
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And I get that but. But for myself, my, for my own
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father, even though I didn't think that the chastisement was
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joyous at the time, it made me into the person that I am today.
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In other words, if, if he wouldn't chastise me, I could be
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a bastard, like I could be a jerk, like a total jerk, right?
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And so it, it was a betterment for me, the chastime that was
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made me better now the person that I am now.
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And so, and he did that because he loved me.
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And so God wants to do that as well with us.
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In other words, we should be thinking about more than just
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the here and now, you know, because think about it, our life
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here on this earth is, is just like a centimeter, not even a
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centimeter of eternity. And so when we when we think
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about that, about being subjection to a God to Father
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and God that wants to spend eternity with us and wants to be
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with us and be in the new heaven and new earth with us and have
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this glorious life for eternity. It just puts it into much more
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perspective I guess in my mind. Well, and I, and I would say
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this too. And like I said, I know some
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people are stronger on this than others, I guess, but we, we
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don't like to think of it like this because it messes with
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their security as a believer. But, but think about it, if, if
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you're going the direction that God needs to chasten you for,
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right? In other words, you're headed
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down a road that he says this is worth me chastening them for.
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Then he is suggesting that if you would continue to not heed
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the chastisement, you might lose life, right?
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Not lose your life. You might actually, there might
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be something other than life on the other side of that.
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And like I said, I know that's like I said, I just, I believe
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it like it's wrote and that's why it's wrote, I mean.
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Why we were just talking, I think on Saturday at our Bible
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study about the verse where it says to turn such a water over
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to Satan that is flesh might be destroyed that that he, you
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know, before he goes apostate basically is what he's saying.
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You know, I mean, that's the same thing that that that's very
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real. And I agree there's people that
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are stronger on this than than others.
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It's a very and, and pretty contentious subject actually.
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But I mean, it's, it's pretty clear that that that guy there
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and that's, he was writing to those, you know, fornicators or
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whatever, you know, having their, their father's wife
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laying with. You know.
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And, and this guy was still saved, and then he was asking
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them to turn them over so they would die before they go past
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it, you know? So, I mean, there is that road.
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We see that road. Really.
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It's just, it's just that, yeah, there's some that would really
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ride that horse all the way and get pretty.
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I don't think it's a tightrope. But I guess what I'm saying is
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there is me. And God does want us to live and
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he does everything in his power to keep us, you know, alive unto
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him, I guess you would say, or whatever.
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So it's not, it's not this tightrope balancing act at all.
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It's, it's a relationship loving God and him loving us.
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And you know, it's, it's pretty easy to stay around somebody
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that the only thing they do is to your best interest.
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You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's not that hard of a walk.
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It's actually a very peaceful and and full relationship that
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we're talking about here. The other thing that I want to
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that I just I kind of you guys were talking here on the same
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thing, you know, talking about pastors of illegitimate son.
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This comes on the heels of an entire letter that is written to
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people that were tempted to go back to the law.
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Now, if there is an illegitimate child, it's one that claims
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Jesus but uses the law or his sanctification or his well-being
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or whatever. And that, you know, if we really
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want to talk about context, that is what this is actually talking
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about. It's talking about that person
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that is writing that line. He's saying, well, you know, we
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better keep the law. But I believe, you know, is this
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a way or, you know, you're tempted to go back to the law.
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That's what we're talking about here in in full.
24:58
Yeah. So I do want to bring that out.
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It's again, it's not it's not a balancing act.
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And you don't have to worry about why am I that illegitimate
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child? Am I, you know, am I one of his?
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Well, that is settled on the the question of faith.
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That's right. You know, and if you're if if if
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you're a believer that you're you're good.
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But you know the battle is to stay a.
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Believer, of course. I just want to make sure that
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everybody that would be listed with be clear on that 1st 10 for
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they verily for a few days chastened us after their own
25:37
pleasure, but he for our prophet that we might be partakers of
25:42
His Holiness. I like that verse that's really
25:44
good. And earlier and you said that,
25:46
you know, a good father would, you know, chastise us, thinking
25:51
of us ahead or outer ways. And I think that's true.
25:58
Any any good father would do that.
26:00
But it says here, you know, after their own pleasure.
26:04
So anyway, good discussion. No, I think that this does point
26:10
out the the fact that it says, but in the middle of it, it is
26:15
contrasting 2 different things. Because he says that they our
26:19
own parents, verily our own fathers of the flesh, merely for
26:24
a few days chasing us after their own pleasure.
26:27
It's I mean, I would be, I wouldn't even consider sitting
26:32
here telling you that I've been the perfect parent that I've
26:34
always chastened out of love and I've never done it.
26:39
And you could look at it this way.
26:41
You could even say it. There are times that I, in the
26:46
name of love or in the name of whatever, failed to chasten when
26:50
they needed it. So for us to sit here, or at
26:55
least me, I'll speak for myself. For me to sit here and pretend
26:59
that I have always chastened in the right way and always at the
27:03
right time, that I'd be crazy to sit here and make that claim.
27:07
So he's saying they did it after their own pleasure, like you did
27:11
it in a way that pleased you at the moment, right or wrong.
27:17
You did it the way you thought that you'd be happy with at the
27:20
moment, right or wrong. But he for our prophet, that is
27:24
when God does it. As I said in the beginning, he's
27:27
not taken out somebody else's frustrated frustration with
27:32
somebody else on you. It's for your prophet.
27:34
Like if he chastened you, It is a it is a direct like you can
27:40
make a direct correlation with if this is a chastening from
27:43
God, it is because there's something I need to improve on
27:47
to be more of a partaker of His Holiness, right?
27:51
I mean, that's the end of the verse for our prophet that that
27:55
we might be partakers of His Holiness.
27:58
Like it is to improve you. It is to direct you in the right
28:02
path, like without. In other words, as a parent you
28:06
couldn't say that I without exception did that.
28:10
But in God's case, you can say that without exception, He
28:14
always is doing it for your prophet.
28:16
That's good. I like, I like hearing that
28:19
there. That's good.
28:20
You know, when we think about after our own pleasure, like how
28:23
many times do I chastise my kids?
28:30
I'm just talking for myself, you know, because I am fed up with
28:35
their behavior. So it really is for like, cut it
28:38
out, you know, I can't stand this racket.
28:41
Don't be doing that kind of thing.
28:43
That's for my own pleasure, right?
28:45
It's so that I could piece in the house other times.
28:48
How often do we tend to chastise out of embarrassment maybe?
28:54
I hate to admit that I've done that or or out of our reputation
29:00
being at stake. You know, people see our kids
29:02
acted this way and we're like, man, you know.
29:04
So I mean, he's not joking when he says after their own
29:08
pleasure, this is this was real. And I think that we would
29:12
realize that we probably do that more often.
29:15
Of course, we would say it's for their own good.
29:17
But really in the bottom of your heart, is it always is that what
29:20
concerns you or is it your momentary piece of the house?
29:24
You know, I I would hope it would be for for probably both.
29:26
But but realistically speaking, but what you were saying aired.
29:31
That is never the case with God. He always does it for our good
29:35
because his reputation is what it is.
29:38
It hit. He doesn't need to prop it up
29:39
with anything. As you could see why Jesus
29:42
walked the earth. Yeah.
29:44
No, but go ahead. Yeah, that's very good because
29:47
you're right. I mean, we do that all the time
29:50
and it to me, it's very encouraging to know that God, my
29:55
father does not do that right. And the reason he doesn't do
30:00
that is because he it says here he wants that we might be
30:04
partakers of His Holiness. Like, like he wants to be able
30:09
to, for us to just experience a little bit of His Holiness and
30:15
who he is here on this earth, like in this in my flesh right
30:19
now. We know that we can't, you know,
30:22
in my body here, I can't see God and I can't, you know, be
30:29
partakers of His Holiness. I, my body here wouldn't take
30:32
it, but like his full holiness. But God wants us to experience
30:38
some holiness of him through him chastising us because he loves
30:44
us and and not because of like you were saying, because we're
30:48
upset or that he's upset or that it's ruining, we're ruining his
30:52
reputation. And that's, that's, you know,
30:56
remember, this is about faith. So he is, he's talking to the
31:01
Hebrews here. Why your faith in Christ is so
31:05
much better than the law. Yeah, Amen.
31:11
Good stuff. OK, Now no chastening for the
31:14
present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous nevertheless.
31:17
Afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness
31:21
unto them which are exercised thereby.
31:26
I mean, to me there's not a whole lot of discussion there,
31:28
only only a real solid fact of the results of a chastisement,
31:34
whether whether it was for my, my peace or their good, you
31:41
know, and. Yeah.
31:44
Well, I think Melvin told the story earlier, like a personal
31:47
experience in which he looked back and saw the prophet that
31:51
came out of the father's review, you know, his own daddy's
31:55
rebuke. And I think we could all do
31:58
that. We look back and we see the
32:01
whatever, whatever bad characteristic we were
32:04
portraying at the time, selfishness or what?
32:07
I mean, what whatever it was that we were rebuked for, and we
32:11
can in the moment, well, I'll say it this way.
32:16
Nobody likes to be called out. I don't care if it's by your
32:19
parents or by whoever. Nobody likes to be called out
32:22
and said you're in the wrong. You know, we don't like.
32:26
But if we are and it was profitable to us, when we look
32:31
back on it, yeah, it wasn't fun at the time, but we can say,
32:34
yeah, I needed that, right. That was that was that was a
32:37
profit to me. You know, not a prophet like a
32:40
man to God prophet, but profitable to me.
32:45
Yeah. That's right, that one.
32:48
Yeah, I just like what it says there again, it says what the
32:52
the chastisement, the fruit of the chastisement is is it
32:57
yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness.
33:00
And I think that's just good. You know, it's also pointing out
33:05
that God chastising me and I, I never thought about this before,
33:11
but in other words, God chastising me yieldeth A
33:17
peaceable fruit of righteousness.
33:19
And it's not because of what I Don or am doing or whatever.
33:25
It's because of what God is doing and, and what Christ does
33:29
in my life. And so anyway, that's just it's,
33:34
that's encouraging to me. I think it's interesting that it
33:38
uses the word exercised like. Me too.
33:41
Yeah. Like it's, it is AI mean in that
33:46
sense. It is like we would use the word
33:49
exercise in that you are going through something that is
33:55
uncomfortable at the time, straining those muscles, doing
33:58
whatever, but it yields fruit. And you know, that's what he's
34:02
saying. You are exercised there by, in
34:04
other words, the experience going through that discomfort,
34:09
going through that review, going through that scourging, going
34:11
through whatever it is, is exercising you like it is it is
34:17
a it's it's a experience that has a fruit at the end of it,
34:21
right? I mean, that's what making the
34:23
point. There.
34:24
And that's right. Yeah, that's very.
34:27
Good as you were talking about that, that word exercise, I I
34:29
thought about that too. And Hebrews 5A while back we
34:34
read a verse that says, but strong big meat belong with to
34:38
them that are of full age. Even those who by reason of use
34:43
have their senses exercised discern both good and evil, you
34:47
know, and that's the same way. It's just, you know, it's, it's
34:50
being used. So yeah, that's that's good.
34:56
I like it. The peaceable fruit of
34:58
righteousness. Yeah, peaceable.
35:02
That's it. That's an interesting choice of
35:03
work there by the author. And this is what he wants out of
35:09
this. Wherefore lift up the hands
35:12
which hang down at the feeble knees, and make straight paths
35:17
for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the
35:21
way. But let it rather be healed.
35:26
So he wants the result, I guess maybe talking about the result
35:33
of this to be able to lift up the hands which hang down.
35:37
This should be encouragement one to another, I suppose is what it
35:42
looks like. Eric, go ahead.
35:44
I think it's actually portraying a a person that is beaten down
35:53
and you can see it and literally the way they stand or the way
35:56
they walk, right. In other words, you see somebody
35:59
that is went through a hardship and they literally their
36:03
shoulders are sunk so that their hands hang lower on their body
36:07
than they would. Their knees are weak.
36:09
They're not standing up straight.
36:10
They may be buckled a little at the knee.
36:11
I mean, I it's it's literally portraying a physical appearance
36:15
of hands hanging down feeble knees.
36:19
And here here's my point. Think about it.
36:23
He just said, I rebuke everybody that that I love.
36:28
The way they were taking their rebuking was in a very downcast
36:32
way. They were like.
36:33
Woe. Is.
36:34
Me hoe life is so hard and things ain't going my way and
36:40
you know like that they were literally receiving it that way,
36:44
he says straighten up, straighten you back up, make
36:47
straight paths for your feet and go move on.
36:49
This is for your profit, right? It is a it is a, it's like, I've
36:54
heard people talk about it in child training, you know, like
36:56
you rebuke the kid and he's like, you know, like his, his
37:01
and you're like, straighten up, put a smile on your face.
37:03
You know, like, like, I don't know if you do.
37:06
I'm not even saying that I've done that a whole lot, but I'm
37:08
just saying that's the point. That is what he's doing.
37:11
Straighten up, put a smile on your face, get your back
37:13
straight, straighten up. This is for your benefit and
37:16
move on. Now I'll give you a personal
37:19
example. I was, I was, I'm still
37:23
preaching in a church Christ about 3 or 4 years ago.
37:27
And man that I just, it's like I was constantly in this battle,
37:35
like they were just constantly going against whatever I had
37:39
preached or given these questions and I was just all the
37:43
time. I felt like I was always in this
37:47
battle, like always. And you know, like I look back
37:53
on it now and I could have been downcast, like I could have been
37:56
beaten down by that. I could have just been like, my
38:00
goodness, I don't even know if I need to be a preacher or I
38:01
don't, you know, like I could have had feeble knees and
38:05
downcast hands and all that. But Tiff is my wife has told me
38:09
this several times. She said you actually did.
38:12
She said it's probably the best preaching you've ever done in
38:15
your life because you were just because of the atmosphere,
38:21
because of this, what felt like a constant chastening, a
38:24
constant battle that it, it affected me differently, You
38:28
know, and, and I can and I, and I actually, I look back on it
38:31
with fondness, like that was good for me, Like I, I, it was a
38:35
prophet to me to be. And I don't know, I mean, I
38:38
don't know if that qualifies. I don't know if God would have
38:41
counted that as some way that he was chasing me or, you know,
38:44
directing me. But I look back on it certainly
38:48
with a, with a fondness in the sense that I saw a great profit
38:54
come out of that. And at the moment it was very
38:57
tempting to be all downcast and feeble in the knees and weak
39:02
because of what was going on. And I know I'm, I'll try to make
39:06
it short, but I'm making that as a point to these people's
39:10
experience. They were probably extremely
39:16
excited when they first received Christ and believed on Him and
39:19
all that. And then life didn't go like
39:22
they thought it was going to. Their families are rejecting
39:25
them. They are getting rebuked
39:27
everywhere they go. They are running into troubles.
39:31
Maybe they're losing their jobs. They're getting kicked.
39:34
You know, they're certainly would be kicked out of the
39:36
temple. They would.
39:38
Life is not going well and God is saying, listen, this is for
39:43
your profit. I am.
39:45
I'm chastening you for your own profit.
39:47
I want you to just lift your head up.
39:49
I want you to lift your hands up.
39:51
I want you to make straight paths for your feet and move
39:53
forward, right? This is for your benefit.
39:56
This is not if I'm if I'm doing something to you.
40:01
Which he's insinuating is if I'm doing something to you, it's for
40:05
your benefit. Don't take it all down.
40:09
Cast and and look. You know your countenance in a
40:12
low state. Pick your feet up, pick your
40:14
hands up and move forward. Yeah, Yeah, that's, that's
40:18
really good. Aaron.
40:19
I, I appreciate that. I think, you know, that's
40:22
something that maybe every believer, especially a new
40:26
believer probably goes through. I know I did a time when I
40:30
realized that not everybody likes this conversion as much as
40:34
I and all of a sudden the the true facts of life kind of sink
40:39
in. It's like, oh man.
40:41
And then I agree with you, Aaron.
40:44
It actually was looking back, it was tough at the time, but
40:49
looking back, it was the place where I probably grew more in
40:54
the word and in knowledge of, of how the Kingdom of God works in
40:57
that stuff. Because everything, I, it felt
41:01
like everything that I said got challenged and just caused me to
41:05
dig deeper and, and find out if I'm right or wrong.
41:08
You know that. So yeah, that's, that's good.
41:10
And again, I will, I would agree with you.
41:11
I don't know if that was chastising from the Lord or not,
41:14
but it sure wasn't pleasant to go through.
41:16
And I sure learned a lot from it, you know?
41:18
Yeah. Yeah.
41:21
So it's, you know, he just got done saying that when God
41:26
chastises us, he does it for our own prophet.
41:29
So that means we be partakers of His Holiness.
41:32
And then he says it also yielded peaceable fruits of
41:35
righteousness. And so it seems like he's saying
41:38
here that so to the Hebrew people, he's the believers here.
41:44
He's saying this is how God chastises us.
41:48
And so because of that, like you were saying here, lift up your
41:53
hanging down hands and you're you're feeble needs, because
41:58
that's what happens, You know, so many times when we I see it
42:02
with my own children, when I chastise them, they're all
42:04
downcast, you know, sometimes and and then after a while
42:08
they're happy, happier than the ever were before.
42:11
But but he's just pointing out here that this is how God
42:15
chastises and why he's chastising us for our own
42:18
profit. And therefore we should be
42:22
making straight path with our feet and then so that lame be
42:26
not turned away, but that that that our lame knees and legs can
42:31
be healed. That's why God is chastising us.
42:35
And so I that's just, you know, like you were saying me and it
42:40
this is the part of, you know, maybe being a follower of Christ
42:44
that some people don't like. But in Romans 5 it says, this
42:49
is, I see, this is very interesting.
42:51
In 5/2 he says he's talking about Jesus Christ.
42:55
He says by whom also we have access by faith into this grace
42:58
wherein we stand and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
43:02
And that all sounds glorious and wonderful.
43:05
And then he says in the very next verse, he says, and not
43:08
only so not only so that we have hope in the glory of God, but we
43:12
glory and tribulation also, knowing that tribulation worketh
43:15
patience and that patients experience and experience hope.
43:20
And so there he's pointing out that we glory in the and hope in
43:27
the glory of God, but we tribute, we glory in
43:31
tribulation. I mean, what the world?
43:34
So tribulation and you know, maybe it's kind of like out of
43:40
context, I don't know. But to me it's God's same thing
43:44
it we work as forth patients and experience and experience hope.
43:47
In other words, it is for betterment.
43:50
So. Yeah.
43:52
No, I, I, I don't know either if it's not exactly, but I think it
43:55
does merge together because we don't know if it's just a
43:58
tribulation of our own doing or if it's chastisement
44:01
necessarily, you know, So we, we would tend to probably be able
44:05
to, or we should probably look at it with pretty open eyes
44:11
because if it is chastised. But, you know, I think we'll
44:14
learn, you know, I don't, I don't think we need to dissect
44:16
every hard thing that comes the way.
44:17
And like, boy, it's God teaching me something or not.
44:20
Yeah, I think, I think anything that happens will work out to
44:23
the good of those that love God, you know?
44:26
So that's, that's yeah. Well, and the first I guess back
44:32
to my example and call what you said you related to is the first
44:38
whole bunch of times that I was challenged on what I was seeing
44:41
in the Bible. I did not I did not look at that
44:46
as a good thing whatsoever. But now, like we have a Bible
44:54
setting which we let the men ask questions.
44:57
I where I preach it and and I almost enjoy a challenge.
45:03
Like I almost enjoy when someone has a, you know, a thought that
45:09
maybe contrary or whatever. Not not that I enjoy just
45:13
correcting somebody. I'm just saying now I see the
45:16
benefit to that, whereas before it was very, I mean, I like it
45:21
was not fun and I did not enjoy it and I did not look forward to
45:26
it. Yeah, I was intimidating very
45:29
much for me because I because I myself wasn't 100% sure in some
45:33
cases, you know, maybe because I was I was learning and but I
45:38
think the fruit actually was peaceable fruit of
45:42
righteousness. It really actually that's a good
45:44
choice of words there. I love it. 14 Follow peace with
45:51
all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
45:55
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God, lest
46:01
any root of bitterness springing up, trouble you, and thereby
46:06
many be defiled, lest there be any fornicator or profane person
46:11
as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright, and it
46:16
belong. Deal there, but follow peace
46:20
with all men, and holiness, without which the Lord, with,
46:23
without which no badge shall see the Lord.
46:25
Pretty blunt there as to that bear your thoughts of this.
46:29
Well, I'm going to kind of go to the end and work backwards
46:32
because I think that I first would have said it at first
46:38
glance, you'd say it's a total new thought because of what he
46:41
starts out in verse 14. But think about it.
46:44
He just been telling them that he rebukes them for their own
46:47
profit. And then he warns that people
46:50
might fail of the grace of God or the root of bitterness would
46:54
spring up and trouble them, or that people would turn to being
46:58
fornicators like Esau. You know, like I think, I think
47:03
that's in the context of I'm rebuking you so you don't go
47:06
down these roads. Right.
47:08
Like, you know, so this is very related.
47:11
It's not a new, it's not really a new total new thought.
47:13
It is a related to what he's just said of that's what the
47:18
rebuking, that's what the chastening would drive you from,
47:22
right? Would you agree with that?
47:23
I mean, that's. What?
47:24
Driving you from but you know. I.
47:30
In light of that, I think 14, I think 14 is its own thought, but
47:37
I think in the context you know it, I think it's an
47:43
encouragement. If you put it in its context, I
47:45
think it's an encouragement. Like I like my example was, was
47:52
I felt a rebuke or whatever you it was by men in a church
47:59
constantly battling me on what I believe.
48:03
But then if you put that in the context, he's saying follow
48:05
peace with all men and holiness. In other words, how you handle
48:11
what is thrown at you and you might actually be rebuked by a
48:15
person, right? Like literally, there might be a
48:17
person that's rebuking you. You know, God might, God may
48:21
stir up the person to rebuke you, right?
48:24
I mean, I think that's totally legitimate.
48:26
So he's saying how you handle that, how you handle it with one
48:31
another, following peace with all men and holiness without
48:35
which no man shall see the Lord. I think it's, I think it
48:37
literally is a in the context of how do you handle the people
48:42
around you and what's coming at you, You know, because again,
48:45
let's put this in its context. These are people that that can
48:52
give a good impression of this new followers of Christ thing or
49:00
they can give a very bad impression and be reason for the
49:05
Gentiles and the Jews to blasphemy God, right?
49:09
I mean, you know, like, literally how they handle what
49:12
is coming on them from their families and from the Jewish
49:15
people and all that can affect how people look.
49:19
At. These new followers, you know,
49:22
because at this point they are new, new followers of Christ
49:25
here. So he is encouraging them to
49:27
follow Peace with all men and holiness.
49:31
No, I I 100% if, if, if there's a chaste thing or whatever
49:37
coming on a believer, then you know, talking about the
49:43
peaceable fruit or it says here, follow peace with all men.
49:47
You know, somebody that that is open to learning and he's
49:55
searching God will become peaceable through tribulations
50:02
of trials. Whereas somebody that's not it
50:05
actually is a kind of a a point anytime there's friction is is a
50:10
spot where you see which side a guy goes to right?
50:15
You'll see where I'm going with this.
50:16
Oh, yeah, like, so this, this iron sharpening iron is either
50:21
going to make you peaceable or it's going to make you
50:24
unpeaceable. Very much.
50:26
I've I've seen of either way. I've seen people respond one
50:28
way. I've seen people respond the
50:30
other way. I probably have responded one
50:32
way or the other way. But so, yeah, I think it's, I
50:35
think it's totally content. No, go ahead.
50:38
Yeah. And I, when I think of this, I,
50:40
it doesn't necessarily mean when you follow peace with all men
50:44
that you agree with the man, the man necessarily, right or, or
50:49
you like do whatever. Like I'm thinking that account
50:56
where I think it was in the book of Acts, if I have it right,
51:01
where I think it was Paul and Silas said, if I have this
51:05
correct, you know, should we follow God or should we follow
51:09
man? Was there their question when
51:10
they were Peter and John? Peter and John, There you go.
51:15
And so in other words, what I'm getting at is following peace
51:18
with all men does not necessarily mean we need to
51:21
agree or to do exactly what the man is asking us to do.
51:26
But exactly like you said, Aaron, it's how we react.
51:29
How do we react to men exactly when, when there's friction like
51:36
you guys were saying, because it says follow peace with all men
51:40
and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord.
51:45
And so it's all in how we react, right?
51:48
And I like what he says there in verse 15 where he says looking
51:53
diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God, which is what
52:00
he's been talking about all along right here in Hebrews.
52:04
And so like you said, it does seem like he's switching gears
52:07
but he's not he is still in that in the context of look guys
52:13
don't fall away from faith in Christ and and grace of God less
52:20
than any root of bitterness bringing up trouble you and
52:24
thereby many be defiled. And so because when we turn away
52:28
from the grace of God or we turn away from just faith in Christ,
52:34
it's could lead to you getting defiled eventually, right?
52:39
That's what he's saying. Then he's using Esau as as the
52:43
example there. And so.
52:45
Yeah, no, it's that's good stuff.
52:47
I just had to think as you were talking there in Romans, I
52:50
didn't know where it was. I had to look it up.
52:51
Romans 12/18 says if it be possible as much as lieth in you
52:55
live peaceably with all men. I mean they're there.
52:58
He's realizing that it's not always always possible.
53:01
Thank you, but, and I appreciate what you brought out there, Mel,
53:05
and you know, to, I don't think you have to agree with somebody
53:12
in order to be, to live peaceably.
53:13
I, I think that's actually a myth and whether it comes from
53:17
religion or just the world or what, But the idea that I can't
53:21
get along with this guy or be friends with this guy because we
53:25
have this difference, I think that's stupid.
53:28
I think that's immature actually, because I, I believe
53:32
that if, if you're mature, you'll be able to live
53:36
peaceably, you know, in, in most instances anyway, with somebody
53:41
that you disagree with, you know, very strongly even on
53:44
other stuff. Matter of fact, I'm, I'm good
53:47
friends with some people that I disagree with quite strongly on
53:51
some stuff, you know, and we have a good friendship.
53:55
You know, I'm sure I'd probably find some stuff I disagree with
53:57
you guys on if we keep taking long.
54:02
But I I like that verse in Romans 12.
54:05
Live peaceably, you know, as much as lieth in you.
54:09
That's because that's actually a mature believer.
54:13
Yeah, that's actually a good thing.
54:14
If you can get along with it, shows you actually, you know who
54:19
you are and how grounded you are and how rooted you are in
54:22
Christ. I think if if you can live
54:25
peacefully with people that disagree with you a lot of Amen.
54:31
OK, let's hit this next verse here.
54:33
Going to switch a little bit. Yeah.
54:34
Let's finish with 17 for you know how that afterward, when he
54:40
would have inherited the blessing he was rejected for, he
54:43
found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully
54:48
with tears. Aaron, your your thoughts on why
54:54
this is kind of spelled out for us.
54:57
He makes sure to make this point here about Esau.
55:01
Yeah, I have a couple things saying, I mean, like I said, I'm
55:04
sure you all can add to it. But if you go back to verse 16,
55:10
he says that he's a profane person as he's don't be a
55:15
profane person as he saw who for one morsel of meat sold his
55:20
birthright. Now you could, I've heard this
55:25
analogy made and it's actually a very good one.
55:28
You could very easily relate this to going after the
55:34
pleasures of this world, the pleasures of the moment and
55:38
giving away your birthright or your soul for these momentary
55:44
pleasures. I mean, that's really like that.
55:46
If you think about the example of Esau, that is exactly what he
55:49
did. Like he'd literally says, I'm so
55:53
hungry, I'm going to die and for literally a bowl of soup.
55:58
He gets rid of this opportunity to be in the line of Christ,
56:03
right? I mean that that he literally
56:05
does. He literally sells that for a
56:06
momentary pleasure, just one meal.
56:09
And then he says explains it verse 17 for you know, how that
56:13
afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was
56:17
rejected for he found no place of repentance, though he sought
56:20
it carefully with tears. You know, it's it's like at
56:24
least, or at least this is what I see in the verse is once he
56:28
did that, once he went down that road.
56:30
And and I'll put this in the context, I mean, God saying, I'm
56:33
rebuking you for your own prophet.
56:35
He said back in the earlier verses, shouldn't you listen to
56:39
it and live, right? I mean, there's a choice between
56:42
life and death here or life and something else here.
56:46
So he's given us Esau. Here's an example and saying if
56:50
you don't take the chastening, if you don't straighten, you
56:55
know, go the right direction, then they're like Esau.
56:59
There is a place in which. It'll.
57:03
A time, I guess you'd say. I don't know a place in a time
57:05
in which you can't undo this, right?
57:09
You can't undo this. He sought this repentance with
57:12
tears. He wanted to go back.
57:14
He wanted to fix it. But there was no way he could.
57:17
He could not undo it. It had already been done.
57:20
Yep. No, I agree with that 100%.
57:23
Yeah, I it's all in the in the context of why he's God
57:28
chastises us to for our own good and for our own profit, because
57:33
he said here in verse 15, look diligently lest any man fail the
57:39
grace of God. And so that's the context that
57:41
he's talking in here is that he doesn't want them to fall away
57:47
from the grace of God in Christ. And and he's saying, look, this
57:52
is what he's all happened to Esau.
57:56
He for the, for in the moment at when he was like so hungry he
58:03
could have eaten anything, he was like, oh, well, what is this
58:08
birthright to me, right? I am hungry right now.
58:11
I am so hungry I could eat a bear and there's this soup in
58:15
front of me now and I could eat it and be satisfied in the
58:18
moment. And so he just saw his
58:21
birthright. And afterwards he realized that
58:24
that was not the right thing to do.
58:26
And he sought it with repentance.
58:28
But there was no place found for repentance.
58:33
You actually made a good point there.
58:35
You touched on a good point there of this failing of the
58:39
grace of God. I think that's why it uses Esau,
58:42
because if you do turn your back, it that is he's he's
58:48
talked about that. We'll see.
58:49
Have we got to it yet? Yeah, we, I think we already.
58:54
I was trying to think where we were and where he talks about
58:56
it, but no Hebrews six. Yeah, that's where it is when he
58:59
talks about that. If they shall fall away to renew
59:01
them again under repentance. Like it's impossible for those
59:04
who were once in light and then have tasted the heavenly gift,
59:07
if they shall fall away to renew them under repentance.
59:09
So I think you're muted. I think you're muted, Leon.
59:15
Now I saw your mouth moving, but I couldn't.
59:19
Hear Oh, I was just saying I was I was turning there as as you
59:22
started speaking, that's the verse that came to mind.
59:24
And I was going to ask if we could use if this verse is in
59:27
context with this discussion, but.
59:29
No, I do, Yeah. No, no, I think that's, I think
59:31
that's a perfect example there because if you did in the
59:34
context of this, if these people did accept Christ and then
59:40
reject him, there's no way there's no place for repentance
59:43
there, right? In other words, that that is, I
59:45
think it's perfect context. I think that's exactly what
59:47
we're that's the point and why he used the person to use is
59:51
because once Esau sold that birthright, he couldn't go back.
59:56
And if they turn back on this, now you can't get a second
1:00:00
chance at it. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's good.
1:00:04
I mean, that's that's some pretty strong language.
1:00:08
But again, we got to realize that it it's a long path.
1:00:14
Oh yeah, to rejecting God here. He's saying don't even start,
1:00:20
you know, like to to back up follow peace with all men.
1:00:23
You know that that is small and simple ask of God for us, you
1:00:30
know, you know, live peaceably among all men.
1:00:32
You know that's a fairly it's a lot harder when later he's
1:00:36
asking you to destroy the body so that the soul would live.
1:00:39
You know, don't want to go there.
1:00:41
We don't want to go there at all.
1:00:42
So anyway, we started 3 minutes late.
1:00:45
We're 3 minutes late stopping too.
1:00:47
So we're right, right out folks. Okie Dokie.
1:00:52
Well, we're going to close today as we conclude today's study.
1:00:56
Remember Hebrews 11/1, faith is the substance of things hoped
1:01:00
for and the evidence of not of things not seen.
1:01:03
And I pray that your faith would reveal biblical truths more
1:01:06
clearly than your musical eyes had perceived the things before
1:01:10
you. Join us next Monday as we
1:01:12
continue to look at God's Word. Thank you for your time,
1:01:15
Appreciate it.