Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Patriotic Grace | a conversation with Katye Riselli

Transcript

Patriotic Grace | a conversation with Katye Riselli · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: Hi friends, welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Amy Wix, your host, as well as our good friend Ashley Pittman.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Here at Simply Wholehearted, we are sharing our journey as we discover how to better love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: And even though you might be surrounded by a world of half-heartedness, we hope to inspire you to living wholeheartedly by inviting our different friends to share their simple ideas of how they live unplugged, purposeful, and intentional in their everyday.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, happy 4th of July weekend! With this odd midweek holiday, I know some of you are enjoying some extra time off in traveling to see friends and family.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: We're so glad you're taking us along with you, or perhaps you're taking us along while you're fixing a cool off at the pool.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: In honor of our nation's celebration of independence, we've got we dip our toes into political waters, and we have invited our collective member and good friends to share some of her story and experience in the White House.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: David Roselli's resume is not only impressive, but I think most of you will find her perspective enlightening and thought about it.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: For me personally, I am guilty of ignorance and sitting on the sidelines I think politics as a spectator sport, especially during those last few years.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I do want to live what I believe.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: And because we've been given an invaluable gift of freedom, I also want to do it as well.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: I can't promise that this conversation will lead you to any first during position, but I do pray it'll lead you to some intentional decisions.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: And because we couldn't record until just the other day, you do get some extra bonus background noises, and if you, I'm hungry, mom, interruption.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: But hey, it's real life and we have fun together anyway.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Now here's our conversation with Katie Roselli.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, so what I so did you guys get to talk at all?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like the theme, the the one line, because I think it was the title of one of your posts, was politics is not a spectator sport.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's kind of the goal that I wanted to get because I think because we're not advocating to lean one direction or another.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: We're we I would just really want to discuss and share your story and then your wisdom and personal experience about what it looks like to kind of be wholehearted in something for me personally I've gotten rather ambivalent about and I rather like ostrich head in the sand.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, especially in the last few years.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_05: It's like an outrage machine at this point.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I get I get outrage uh fatigue.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: I have that.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: So I I've kind of dropped out.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, because it's a lot.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I think, yeah, so I think that's kind of like as people are like, oh, so they're gonna talk politics, how does this work?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like on a podcast that's usually talking about wholehearted feelings?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: No, but I think I really do believe, and I I think we were discussing this ahead of time in the Voxer, is that we are asked to be either, you know, hot, or he's like, I'd rather have you cold than the lukewarm spit out.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is an arena in my life that's become very lukewarm.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that's not the best.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because part of it too is in just becoming so um hands-off and uninvolved that I'm not praying, that I'm not advocating for what I do believe and what is important, and I'm also not I've I've gotten away from some of the roots, and and you've written about this and you've talked about it.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's um the history of our country is really important, and it does play into and help give us understanding and wisdom into why we maybe need to be more active and involved.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, so that's kind of what I'm thinking.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think, Ashley?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I have so many thoughts.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_05: I can't even hear them.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_05: No, I just think it's good.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_05: No, yeah, I know.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_05: I think, well, when you talk about it in terms of lukewarm, I think, is this a thing I need to be hot or cold in?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_05: Because it, you know, if it's if it's a political system.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_05: So at what point, what is my participation?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_05: What should it look like?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_05: And at what point do I know if I'm hot or cold?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_05: And it am I called to it?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_05: In other words, like is every one of us called to have some sort of active role?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe it's not even politics, because politics is gross.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, it's just the way we, you know, I understand it's like the way things get done and whatever.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_05: So ish, yes.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, like at the roots, like you think, okay, politics.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's you know, if you go to the root words, you know, the roots of politics or whatever.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_05: But I think politics, I think, of what we see now.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_05: What we think it has become people trying to get their way, get what they want, not necessarily representing people, but representing their own interests, um, and whatever that looks like and the corruption that takes place, and not across the board, but it does.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so that's what I think when I think politics, and so I think, okay, so do I even want that?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_05: Like where where where do I as a Christian fit into that should I try to fit into it?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_05: And what is my specific call?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's or are we even supposed to fit into it?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: Or are we just supposed to have to to care enough to to just even pray?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_05: Well, right, for sure that's you know, we know that we have a directive to pray for our leadership.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: But even beyond for me, well, and I don't know, I don't know that we are supposed to do anything.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: But I think for me, the important thing is that I have there's been a couple of so just recently, as of yesterday morning, right?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um uh one of our Supreme Court justices chose to retire.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't think this was a complete shock.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: This was sort of known, it's played into the election.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: So two years ago.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, two years ago.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so so now it's happened.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and there's all sort of speculation of what this could mean and what could upheaval.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: I I I don't buy a lot of that, but what I can do and what I can advocate is in prayer, pray for our leader to make a really great decision.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_04: And well, and I would say, you know, like some of it too is like stepping all the way back, right?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: So um, for instance, um, we moved to DC when I was in high school and it was on the TV all the time, and I'm a military brat, so I you don't talk about politics growing up, you know.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: So all of a sudden we go from living on Air Force bases all over the world to living in literally right outside of DC, where you know, kids' parents worked for Congress, or you know, it was just natural everyday life.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_04: So, like the nightly news in Kansas City, you know, you know what you get.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: The nightly news in Washington DC is not a whole lot different than Fox or CNN or something like that, because that's right there.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and I basically pretty quickly was like, no, I don't want to have anything to do with politics.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's really left to people who have louder voices and are who care more, you know.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and in Virginia, your senior year of high school, you have to take government, like it's a required class.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: And it's first time in my life I walked in, I took the seat in the back of the room, second to the last seat in the back behind the tallest guy in the class.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_04: And um not your personality at all.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: No, so um, but in the course of that year, what I learned was um it like profoundly changed what I thought about government, what I thought about politics, and it led to what I studied at EVA, which was I got a degree in government and poly sci political American politics, and it ultimately was a my high school teacher who was like, hey, look, at the at the root of it, politics and government is about people.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's about the people who founded our country.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's the system of government that was dependent upon our people.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it was this concept that you know, at our history, at the you know, if you drill it down to the basis of it, the people in the colonies felt like they better represented their wants and needs and requirements than um than folks in England, right?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like so if you go all of that, the concept is that you know, people, and so if you extend that all the way out, like what does it matter for us today?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like then the most important place to be engaged is the government closest to you, yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_04: So it's your local government, it's the state government.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_04: Those things they impact our lives way more.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: For me as a military spouse, the federal government has a huge impact because um we're not Missouri residents right now, but um, there's benefits to what happens in Missouri and being military friendly, but um at the federal level, that's where funding and decisions for taking care of military families comes from.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, at the brass tacks of why should we care about it, it's because it's not the game of politics, which is what is on TV.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like you a lot and what makes news and that's some of that news is like reality TV, right?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_04: But it's people's lives.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so yeah, um, you create care, we we personify things with people and we say, well, this person is this or this person is that.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: And we we kind of rob ourselves, we rob our country of understanding kind of bigger pictures, you know.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then as believers, we we turn something that's really polarizing, and we go, Well, how do we how do we even walk into that?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_05: Right, you know, and um and what does God have to do with it, or what does my faith have to do with it, or yes, yeah, and in some ways it feels extreme because my per part of what really got to me was when it started to feel like for many believers, it was as if the Constitution was like the back page of the Bible.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_05: It started to feel like that's how high of a level the Constitution was, and so it it was at that level, and the way they fight their politics and their political stance is on the same level as as where they fight for scripture or even higher.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_05: And that's where I was really like, you know what, I'm I'm kind of done.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_05: I'm pretty done.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: And for you, did that like just stance to you took on when you were younger or like just early in your years of faith, or what was that?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_05: You mean where was I with it?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean a few years ago I would have been like the Fox News junkie person.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, now this is recite.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_05: I can't even with any of it now.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_05: And um, and part of it has been honestly, I get pulled out of the bubble I was in when we moved here.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_05: I got plucked out and I started studying things for myself and just thinking for myself because I had no choice because I was kind of alone.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_05: So, which has been really good in many ways, but and it was like, well, what does scripture say about these issues?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_05: And and what is his heart for people is really the thing.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_05: What is this heart for people and how is you know, even politics blocking that I mean, you know, so much of the arguing back and forth and the polarization blocks you know serving people.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but um it just becomes about issues, and you know, like you said, just people get labeled by oh, you're a nasty Democrat, or oh, you're like a conservative, you know, and so your whole personhood is defined by this one, maybe how you voted or or whatever.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_05: And now it's almost like it's like, well, you're sure you're surely going to hell.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_05: I can tell because of the way you just cast that vote.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_05: Or you know what I mean?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_04: Which feels like which news outlet do you listen to?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you know, so that's really hard because so two years ago, one of the things that probably the closest, so like the greatest irony, right, is to be someone who um studied government, got a degree in government, ended up working in government in a pretty high whole high profile capacities, and then to end up in the middle of the country in the flyover states in 2008.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: Talk about a culture shift, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: In the middle of an election year in 2008, and um kind of look around and go, nobody talks about this, nobody thinks about that.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and then eight years later, for an election to turn into eleven candidates on one side and a couple on another, yeah, and then it drills all the way down to him versus her, right?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like you don't even have to use names because in 2016 I'm sitting in South Dakota watching this election going, what is this?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right, and eight years removed from working in DC, I didn't want to care.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't, this is not I don't want to play.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't like either choice, this isn't fabulous.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's really where that one piece that I wrote, Politics is not a spectator sport came from.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: Because I basically got to a point where I was like, I'm opting out.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I eight years later, eight years after sitting around going, who are you people who don't care?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like you have to care, you have to engage, you have to, you we that is our like if you don't, if you check out, like then who does?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: Then are you like are you surrendering the playing field to the people that maybe you wish played differently?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: Well, how do you get people to play differently if you aren't gonna walk in?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um and if our there are people who need truth, like how do they hear the truth unless someone tells it to them?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: And how does anyone go to tell it unless they are sent, you know?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: And so at the root of my faith is this idea that how we live really matters, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like what we believe really matters, but are we living it out?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, um Yeah, it's all fine in theory and thought and in our own mind, but does it change anything we do?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and and there's two ways, you know, there's two places there's evidence of what you believe, like what you say with your mouth and what you live live with your life.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so if what we're living doesn't match what we say we believe, you know, Jesus is pretty prescriptive about that in Matthew, about whether or not we've invested what he's given us, whether we've um gone forth and done, whether we've actually lived it out.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_04: And um, so it got to the point in the fall of 16 where I was like, I'm out.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: This is not yeah, but this is not what I signed up for.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_04: This is not what I signed up for.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: This is not, and I get why people are checking out, but at the same time, I stepped back and I was like, you know what, for the last eight years I've been again part of a military community and watched how people put on a uniform and they will salute the commander-in-chief, regardless of who that person is.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_04: And there's a lot of faith in that, you know, like to say we salute, you know, no matter who won in November of 16.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: My husband was gonna stand up and salute, and he his job would not change because of some core values and mission, and and there's a lot I think to learn as believers for you know, we're not necessarily called to salute every president, but we are absolutely called to pray for our leadership and to pray for the people around them.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so one of the things I really think about is you know, how do we how do we do that?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_04: How do we pray for the people who are there?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I think about the times that I was there and I needed prayer or the relationships that God gave me at a really young age to speak truth in really unique circumstances after the after 9-11 and um working in Homeland Security.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: So as believers, if we're not in DC, we should care because we should be caring about the people closest to us, um, and then we should care about the people making decisions and um so so that's sort of the heart behind it.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's back up a little bit because you've alluded to several of it, several of your experiences that you're you're not just someone who wrote a good piece and you you're not just someone who I mean you've listed a few of your credentials.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: You grew up in a military home, you are now a military spouse, you've worked in DC, lived in DC, but why don't you string some of this together of of what that actually has looked like and some of the details in your season of working in the White House and you know, um, yeah, um just being involved in all of that?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so um, so I am a military brad.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_04: My dad was in the Air Force, um, and I'm now uh he got out when I was 15 and we stayed in Virginia.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_04: Did you ever now as a kid go like, I'm never gonna marry anyone in the military?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: I did actually.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I even dated that's funny.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: I I dated someone who um is now in the Navy and um and you know he's still he is a good friend of mine and his wife is a friend of mine, and um, but I really consciously was like, no, I don't really think I'm gonna do that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to do those things.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so I stayed in DC and went to UVA um and ended up working in in Washington.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: I worked on Capitol Hill in a senator's press office and was hired by the White House um after in the f in the summer of now what led you to go work in those places?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Was that like as you worked on your degree?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_04: I just was a government major, I I need a sort of an internship that that would help with that.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: And um my dad knew at the time one of the senators from where he had grown up, and um I just applied for an internship, and so I got it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then um honestly didn't really love it.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like loved the experience, but wasn't trying to go work in DC after college.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_04: I really wanted to work for a church or go work for a parachurch organization to do ministry, quote unquote.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I really wanted to go lead Bible studies and take care of so you're a government major, you wanted to go into ministry.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was awesome.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: I loved the history of it, I really enjoyed it, but um had been a young life leader in college and then worked on FCA's, you know, volunteer capacities, and so I was like, yeah, that's just what I like to do.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: I worked at a Christian camp during the summer um in North Carolina, and I was like, this is this is it.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like I like talking to people, I like talking about life, and I like talking about things that matter, and I'm don't like superficial conversations for very long.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I always I gravitate towards two topics faith or politics, both of which are you know, religion and politics, the two things you're talking about.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: You're not supposed to say especially together.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right and and really nine times out of ten, I'm happiest if I talk either one of those.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_04: So um God's sense of humor was to open the only doors.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_04: I went home and was hanging out with my folks in Virginia, and the doors that opened were um in DC.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I had a couple different interviews and um thought, well, maybe I'll go work for like a nonprofit in DC.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: That'll be okay.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: It won't be the same.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um it won't be exactly politics.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it won't be just outside of it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's this the change agents and yeah um kind of unique experience um with that interview because you know, in terms of that the diversity and the polarity, that was probably one of the first real eye-opening experiences because I interviewed for this NGO who had this great mission for caring for children and speaking up on behalf of children and women.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: And um, in the interview, I was told that they just weren't kind of skeptical that I would be a good fit for the organization because of the member of Congress that I'd worked for and his position on adoption, and he was a very ardent adoption advocate.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and not was not necessarily anti-pro-choice, but he was very pro-life and even above all that, he was pro-adoption.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and he and his wife had had adopted, and she was real skeptical that I could work for an NGO interesting that was not was pro-choice and really felt strongly about that.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and as a 21-year-old, I was sitting there going, Well, well, why are these mutually exclusive?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I think that that's you know, really that's kind of the heart for a lot of things is um when we make pol politics polarizing, we try to drill one issue down and say this side or that side.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: And as a believer, there's a whole lot of and.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: There's not as much or.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're either you can be for people um and love people without being categorized as just one thing.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's the thing.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that is the thing.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_05: We should come back to that later.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, remember that one that's the big thing.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I ended up um getting a job offer from the White House, and I went to work for President Bush um as a writer and was writing my first job was to write his thank you notes.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: So it's pretty fun.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, talk a little bit about that experience because you have told me about that and just something that you it did in you.
• 21:19
  unknown: Yes.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_04: I thought that was really cool.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: So um it was it was such a reminder, you know, to here's the leader of the country who cares about writing thank you notes for the people he met um and for the gifts that he received.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I was hired right before September 11th, and when September 11th happened, I was actually at home waiting for my clearance to start working at the White House.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I was hired but waiting for permission uh to actually go in and go to the office.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: And um so I had a real distinct my two of my roommates worked in Arlington and on Capitol Hill, and um so I was sitting in Alexandria while the planes hit uh the towers and watched that happen and um had just been running when in Arlington or Alexandria kind of near our house and um the plane hit the Pentagon.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so uh later that day I had this probably that morning sitting around and I hear these jets flying over where we lived and initially was not you know a lot of people talk about how they heard that that day and it was really jarring for them but for me it was really familiar because my dad had flown those jets and I grew up on an Air Force base.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so it was really a familiar set feeling.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: But then I realized that that was not normal.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's out of place.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_04: It didn't fit right so I ended up getting to write for the president um and write his thank you notes and work in correspondence and messages and um so here's here's a man who after September 11th has a lot on his plate and he cares about sending a personal thank you note an investment.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_04: And it was for me really formative I think in just realizing that like every person we meet and every interaction is meaningful and that to be grateful for that.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that really set the tone for me and in my time in DC.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah what a cool way to begin.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean you just see that the variety of who you know your president is interacting with and what he appreciates about each you know situation and I mean I I can't imagine how many thousands did he sign his thank you notes did you write them and then he signed them or how did that work?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah so um yes he signed them.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_05: That's what I just need to know if he put his signature over the end.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah and some kind of love him I know so um I remember one time I got um I got a thank you note back and so I would have information about these are people who sat down and did a round table with the president and so his personal aide would give me the information of hey you met with these people these are some of these talked about and um and one time I got a group of notes back that had been typed up and printed on official stationery and gone into the Oval Office to be signed and came back with this huge black Sharpie mark through it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_04: Whoa and he'd written along the edge of the paper what he wanted it to say.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow and I was like a way and um I think I went home and talked to a roommate about it or maybe my mom and um maybe it was just somebody else's office and they're like aren't you glad he he took the time he cared enough to mark through what was perfectly well written.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like he could have just signed it.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_04: But he he he he cared what he wanted to say you know and I think that that was true for his entire presidency if you look at it and um you know for me for someone who never really wanted to be in politics or in the heart of it it was really I mean not only like you just like leapt right into like the very middle of the we were surrounded by good people you know and he made a point to be surrounded by good people and um people that you trust.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I think that was one of uh in those positions I was not you know early on I don't think that any of those people knew my name.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: Sure sure but yes um it was this sort of front row seat right behind the front row.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm and you see what the front row is responsible for and dealing with and um just really had a burden to pray for the for that.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know there was a so I I worked at the White House I was eventually worked for the Office of Homeland Security and then went to um the Department of Homeland Security.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: And they created the Department of Homeland Security in 2003.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um and that's so funny I I was like oh yeah that's right they had to create that that wasn't brand yeah so I was actually hired into the Office of Homeland Security and they're like oh yeah there's this bill in Congress it's gonna create a c department and nobody thinks it's gonna pass.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like there's just really much interest going on um and within a month or two the the Homeland Security Act of 2002 passed.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: It was like yeah here we go they're gonna create a department and um at the time I worked for Governor Ridge and his chief of staff and went with them when he became the Secretary of Homeland Security to help stand up the department and um probably a couple months into that was um a there was a night where we were working really late and I stayed I had crazy hours and I just had this I remember standing in this one part of the NAC, the Nebraska Avenue complex and I didn't know what was going on but you could read the stress and just the gravity of a moment and I just felt this little you're here to pray because you're a witness to something that no one will else will ever see.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: And so you're here to pray.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: And 10 years later well 15 years later now I have a friend who works at Homeland Security in a pretty senior position.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: Wow and I think about that moment and how I felt and um and I pray for her because I know she's a witness to you know so you go back to like what do we do as believers like there are people who love the Lord and who maybe didn't maybe literally stumbled in to that right that second row to what's happening in our country.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah and they love the Lord and they need people to hold their arms up.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah that's really good that is really good.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: And that's us.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah that is even if we live in the flyover states.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right and that we too with the 124 degree heat index okay so homeland security.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_04: So Homeland uh eventually um worked for the State Department okay um started doing speech writing I always was a communications person like yes love to write uh and you're a great reality is is um if you raise your hand to write something people are like oh she likes to do this we'll just keep giving her more and so you go you know my dad always says that um you do more than is expected soon more is expected.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh it's true.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um eventually ended up writing um and doing some speech writing um at the Department of State and working um from a policy policy perspective with Mrs.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: Bush's office Mrs.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: Wallabush's office and was hired to go be her um I was loaned to her office to be the deputy communications director for her.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_04: That sounds so fancy it's a real fancy um I had about this much space oh and this is large if you all just there was someone else right there and it would but it was really neat um at that and uh I got to do everything from helping um edit some of her speeches to working with her speech writers write helping write content for the website that's now archived um and then um travel for her in advance of some of her foreign travel wow and so um oh that's cool it was cool I didn't realize that part that would be so fun so I don't know that's why I want to do a did you arrange the travel or you did the traveling?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh both so see there you go that would be yeah yeah see that would yeah yeah so I've done that off and on um in other capacities you as an advanced member as an advanced team member you go out ahead um and so you're on the ground you're make planning the trips you're working with making sure everything runs smooth when they're there and so that's kind of cool and so I got to go to some blazer yeah pioneer yes I don't know that's my thing.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_05: I learned a little about that by watching Madam Secretary a show which I love.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yes it gives me great compassion for the guy as mad as I get about politics I watch that show and it grounds me.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like oh it's a really hard job it's a really hard job it's more than just all the back and forth on Facebook like it's really hard.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: These are heavy decisions and they're good for me because it's uh you know a true show right it's not totally true I would I wish that she could be a person in real life it's true I mean you know the benefit of things like Madam Secretary or you know Wes Wayne even was um you remember they're real people.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah right so like you can remember right now I mean that's the only thing I have to go back on.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_05: I'm pretty sure this has all truly happened according to the Madam Secretary so I guess I do I don't have time but maybe I could that it's on Netflix.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes or so?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes that'll work I need to send the kids out of the house and just spend you should watch out.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway the benefit to those is that we remember they're real people.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: The real people need themselves feelings they're just they have feelings juggling you know there's a headline that says this particular person said this.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: First of all don't you feel for anybody who has a microphone in their face for their job.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: That'd be awful if I did it not all the time it's true.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yes we can edit everything we put out there edit and you stand up yeah one of the um one of the things I remember learning when I worked for so I worked at State for Karen Hughes who was uh she's was the president was President Bush's speechwriter and communications director early on and she made a lot of headlines because um about a year and a half in she chose to leave DC right and go home because she wanted her son to be able to graduate from high school in Texas.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_04: And so here's this woman who's one of two inner circle and she's decided hey look I'm choosing my family.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah um and for me that made that bumped her like that put her on my list of if there are women I want to work for in Washington, if I'm gonna be here I want to work for Karen Hughes because well and then she was gone but she came back and she worked at the Department of State when her husband her son went to college and I and I got to go work for her.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_04: I got to go be you know helped write with her write for her and um learned so much but one of the things that I remember she she always was nervous before she did press and I was like you you're kind of the person right communication who can be any better than you.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_04: If you're not nervous before they put a microphone in front of you then there's a pro like there's a reason for nerves because it helps ground you and then reminds you and the weight of what you're carrying.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_04: There may be some current people who don't have that maybe fear maybe one in particular comes to mind but it's a graph it's there's there's gravity there's weight there's significance and um you know the flip side which is a whole nother tangent to social media is that we've given everybody a microphone oh yeah and so we've given everybody a platform but at the from where I sit politics is this platform of of public service right so like if you look at anyone you really respect or admire whether it's centuries ago or decades ago or current who are in politics or government managed to do it well that's a sacrifice and it's service you know um and I think that that's you know President Bush was a pretty polarizing president at the time.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_04: There are a lot of people who were like you work for who?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_04: Right right um and for a long time after I left DC I would get the side eye you did what?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_04: Well you know we won't get into what I think a decade later I don't get that as much because I think people realize that he was a he was a true public servant.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know he really cared about it and right or wrong decisions you you make those decisions and the gravity of those decisions are not lost on the people who make them.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah um can you believe we are already halfway through the summer for most of us there's a mixed feeling that comes along with that statement and recently a few of you have reached out asking me about that super summer challenge thing I do with my kids and is it possible for you to still try it?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: The good news is there's still plenty of summer left to create a rhythm that works for your family while also feeding your kids curiosity, helping build immunity and even getting them ready for the next school year.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: This is our family's ninth summer of working on a super summer challenge and we've gained so many incredible memories and I personally experienced greater sanity during these lazy days of summer.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: I promise it's worth the 45 minutes it'll take you to put something like this together for your kids.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I've decided to run another special on our creating a Simply Summer course which will help you put together a super summer challenge.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right now it's only$16.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'll also link several free printables which might be the help you've been looking for.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: All the details are in the channel.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: Now back to our conversation yeah I think there I think that even in itself there's a lot to be said about um real just seeing the long term picture because short term it might feel or come across as really polarizing, extreme but history will tell your story you know very you know truth will be able to look back and go, okay, well what did they actually do now that all the sound sound bites have faded away you know the laws that are in the book, the ramifications and the fruit of their service or their acts that they did um that's really only I think the way that we can gauge long you know is and and therefore then those who are or really for any of us to think okay what's the long-term um you know implications here of this decision really instead of worrying about if we put more concern and weight into that instead of worrying about what's the immediate reaction that we get because it's really easy to be swayed by popular opinion right when then which kind of goes back to um our faith are required to love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as ourselves.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_04: So how does that you kind of touched on a little bit, you know how how do we place that and put that faith politics if that's how we define our faith and how does that look um yeah and just where we stand and how we pray and and how we advocate I know this is a really easy question and something we can sum up and tie up at the pretty um no there's a lot of people I think I spent a lot of time in DC really wrestling then like how does this how do you reconcile this and I think that that experience when I was interviewing right after college really shook me because there was this well is there are Christians on just one side right like our country's pretty exceptional if you look at governments around the world politics we have two a two-party system and Europe doesn't do that.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: You have collaborative government and so you know say Ashley is you know blue and you're purple and I'm yellow well if Ashley's gonna win she actually has to make some agreements with me and govern together together.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so we have this system when we're when we we're not really a true two party system because we have green parties, we have libertarian parties we had a whole manner of people who tried to be the independent candidate in 2016.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes yeah that's true and people I think that proved that people were looking I think yes I think that 2016 showed there's a middle ground.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_04: Right and it's viable I also think it showed that Christians aren't red or blue.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yes and there's a misunderstanding and what what's hard for me is listening to people even friends of mine who are decidedly blue think that you've lost you don't actually know the gospel if you're red.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_04: Or if you were decidedly red and you look at someone who votes blue and says no way do you know the gospel right um and we start labeling people we label them with colors we label them with parties we affiliate you well we get we really dumb it down to sort of one issue.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yep you know like you either one of you you could tell me you're not that issue not even a conversation it's gonna be the it's probably gonna be the same one.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_04: And depending on where you are in the country having lived in a lot of the country yeah yeah um those single issues are different.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_04: But why are they different?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_04: Are they different because of the history?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_04: Are they different because of the economics of that place?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: Are they different because of um the business are they different because of the coast you know and and what they see are they different because of the population so so what's unifying across party lines across um you know the real disparity in American geography is is a faith and you gotta get for me it got to the point where it's like you just have to get back to the the real basics of do you what do you believe?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um and are you living out of that?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_04: Do you believe that at the end of the day it's love God and love people.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_04: And if it is then in loving God you love people better.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_04: And if you are loving people then we need to care about loving the people we elect.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_04: And you have to you have to you have to vote.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_04: You know it's it's a pretty sad commentary that um in Iraq when they finally had free elections they had something like 90% of the vote.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: I mean women there were there are pictures of women who have purple thumbs and fingers because they could vote.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: And in the most active election in history we barely crossed 50% right in a presidential election year.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like if we're lucky we see in a midterm election this one might in 2018 might be different but the average election in the United States we we see 50% of the of the eligible population to vote.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: People eligible to vote 50% vote.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_04: Which means that out of the three of us let's add Bethany two of us might vote.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: Why do you think that is because we check out because and and I say that because I was ready to I was literally ready to not turn in an absentee ballot.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_04: It would be really easy as a military spouse for sure hey I vote in Texas and they may or may not count my absentee ballot so it's okay.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: Well no you know we I vote I don't vote because they're gonna because I think that my one vote will change it.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_04: I vote because I was given a voice and I was given the opportunity right so those are those are gifts.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and I think it's it even goes back to stewardship which is which is something I can I feel like I can usually hang my hand on that.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay stewardship we've been given an amazing gift to live in America I mean Western world really I mean you make that even bigger but specifically America where we have the right to vote we have the right to speak we have the right to bear arms we have you know all of these rights and privileges and freedoms that I mean 90% it feels like 90% of the world doesn't have in comparison if we and I don't know that's not like a a true percentage but um but if I've been given that gift what do you do with it?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and I need to and I I'm called to steward that well whether it's not just finances it's time it's loved ones relationships and then it's my citizen rights.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah I think that's a good it's a good perspective to at least use your voice and especially even when they give you choices that are yeah like honestly 2016 I thought me neither so I honestly and it's you know it was very controversial because people are like you're gonna throw away your vote I'll just because I don't care I go to the third party I just you know a third party that I thought surely's got to be better than this and so but that was me using my voice to say no y'all have to do better because this sucks what you just did.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yes and so that was me and I don't care I mean I knew it wasn't gonna change but I was just adding in the pot to say no.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_04: And it's in stewardship to say hey I I won't give my voice I won't give my yes to something I don't agree with.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_05: That's the thing.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_04: And that's huge.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_04: So so so look at what comes out of 2016.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: I don't remember the statistics but I remember reading somewhere just the amazing number of people who said I won't say yes to this or that.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_04: But it it trickled down.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah you know and so so one of the benefits to 2016 in my opinion is all of a sudden people who are paying attention I think there were two rule camps.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: One was where I was tempted to go which is I'm gonna plug my ears I'm gonna turn off my television and I'm gonna check out because neither one of these candidates primary the two main candidates deserve my vote well I don't vote because they deserve my vote.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: Right yeah I vote because I was given a gift I was I vote because my husband my father my both of my father in law my b grand both of my grandfathers they put on a uniform and they raised their right hand and they said I will protect and defend this country I will protect and defend the Constitution I will protect and defend your right to vote.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_04: And so if I'm gonna respect that these men and women who put on a uniform every day and on November 7th they saluted one commander in chief on November 8th not even 60% of the United States went out to vote and elected Did someone else?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Well, on January 20th, there was a lot of people who had a lot of opinions on January 20th of 2017.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: Well, do you know that every single one of our the members in our armed forces they still saluted the flag and they still saluted the commander-in-chief?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I think you know, if you are thinking about voting in that way, you know, in your but where do you start, right?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: Where how do you how do you sift through?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_04: You know, how do you look at things like emigration?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: How do you look at things like right?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_04: So these are like lightning rod topics.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: For years you could have said it was abortion and gun rights.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_04: Well there's a there's a whole new host of things.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: How do you think about um our military?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_04: How do you think about in our role in the world internationally?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: But don't don't tackle the big scary stuff, right?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're talking to someone who isn't sure what they believe, you you take it down to the basics.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_04: So do that for us, Katie.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I would love to say I have a lot, I have a lot of thoughts.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_04: They're not very coherent, but you know, where does it affect you most?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: It affects who you elect to your school board.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_04: It elect it affects who you elect as your mayor or city council.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um who you elect as your governor?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, some of the ways it affects a military spouse, for instance, for our military families, right?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: So do um, does the local school board when we move somewhere do are they friendly to military kids?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like do they understand that the requirement in Alabama is different than the requirement in Utah is different than South Dakota?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, y'all, I took three different state histories because Utah state history in fourth grade does not count for Alabama state history in fifth grade.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: And when you get to Virginia in high school and you haven't taken Virginia state history, are you American?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_04: So you know, those rules for our yeah, we we we don't just elect the president.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we don't really so you're dialing it down to what you feel as your family, for your family culture, for your family values, what beliefs.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that's interesting you say that.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_04: And then take it that step.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: Then just go start here.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: You know, start in your house.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_04: Start in your community.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then eventually you're gonna see that the decisions they make in DC do affect you.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_04: Because what have they decided in DC that has hamstrung your governor?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_04: But that's a messy, tangled knot.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: And sure.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_04: There's a whole slew of people who go to Congress to figure it out.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: Well, talk to your congressman.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I know that that sounds like, well, they're just gonna give me a RoboPen letter, you know, that's signed by some machine.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_04: They do count, you know.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: They they have at least it you're you've used your voice.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: You've used again, you've stewarded the gift that you've been given.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: You you're actually allowed to write a letter, you can mail it to them.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: They there's a large chance someone's going to read it, and we never know how it can affect.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I know too, like in that way, uh, a friend and I were talking just the other week about how even though they didn't um care for um a lot of the social issues, um, their choice was made because of the financial um decisions.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: And um this friend's husband owns or is the president of several, you know, local banks, and not here in this area, but um, so that was gonna influence their decision and how, you know, how they voted one way or another, or what they're even advocating for, you know, um, even praying for because it personally affects their livelihood.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that's kind of like the same way of obviously if you have military, that's going to influence who you think is gonna give the help, support, um, you know, all of those different things that you can only and you can only measure so far because all of it is just talking points and you don't know what's actually going to happen.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: So we can only do our best to discern, you know, in during the voting process, what do we think is actually and how I mean, I think the Holy Spirit wants to lead us in that too.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: If we're supposed to steward our freedom well, and if part of stewarding that is voting, then and it's not saying that I'm here, any of us are here to tell you what the Holy Spirit should lead you.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: That and that's where it has to be between you and the Holy Spirit.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and the Holy Spirit could tell you to sit out.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_04: You could help, uh, you know, but you know, I think that's where But but but we're asking isn't it a beautiful place to be where you've prayed about it and you've gotten to a point where you're like, I'm at peace with this decision, right?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_04: Because then you've still stewarded it.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there are times where for my yes to mean something, you have to say no, right?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_04: Because if we all say yes, right, then is that yes significant?
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right, right.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_04: Or if I have the freedom to say no, that means your yes is significant.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and my no is significant.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um because we're not just doing it like automatically, robot, or by compulsion from humans.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's being compelled by the Holy Spirit.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_05: Well, yes is only a yes if no is a real option.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_05: If you can't say no, you can't.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_04: You just live in a dictatorship, right?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_04: But so whether it's politics or just life, right?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like if my kids don't get the choice to say no to me occasionally, it's just a dictatorship.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, right now, right, right.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_04: My youngest proves that point time and again.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: But I'll have a few of this.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, at the end of the day, you you are like, oh, so what do we do as a believer, right?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how do you live wholeheartedly?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_04: How do you wrestle this?
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_04: So don't expect to have all the answers, right?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: So, like how many people don't go to church or don't live anything other than a lukewarm life in Christ because they can't wrestle, they don't know the answer to this one really big issue.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_04: They it's it's just so thorny and it's really tangled, and oh my gosh, it's really emotional, right?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you touch this one topic, yeah, um, and heaven forbid you're in the space with a microphone in front of you and you touch that topic, yeah, right?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_04: Well, so politics isn't any different, right?
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, don't let the one horrible thorny issue like take it to the just the basics, and if it's nothing other than, oh my gosh, like let's be grateful for the people who are willing to serve.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah right, like and let's not forget their people.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because how many good men and women will not run for Congress or will not run for the presidency, or Senate, or mayor, or governor, because they don't want to sacrifice their privacy.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_04: They don't want to be basically set up on a platform where they're going to fall because we're we're not perfect people.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_04: And so then it's just a matter of time before someone you know says something.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_04: So you're a punching bag.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_04: So if you if we if we can remember that they're people, yeah, and remember that the issues are not, they're not poster children for issues, you know, right um, and and pray for those people because they've been willing to step into that, right?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's to the man who walks into the arena and even be willing to speak to them.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: If that's in an email, a handwritten note, you happen to run into them.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_04: Or you know you know someone there, right?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, eight years removed from DC, I have a lot of relationships.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_04: I have a lot of friendships with people who are still there and who are working in an administration right now who is not well liked, um, or might be well liked.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, two years ago, when it was a different kind of administration, it was a blue administration, and I worked for a red president, but you better believe I prayed for not just the president, but I prayed for his staff.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right, right, because those are the people that you surround yourself with.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and my firm belief from having been in that second or third row is that um the quality of our presidency is not just the president, but it's the people around him.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, absolutely.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's some pretty I know there's some really incredible people.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um even if you didn't agree politically, there's you know plenty of people who maybe aligned maybe with your beliefs or your convictions that um yeah that are and then maybe they may feel called to be there.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, they may feel like God just sort of opened the door and they just kept saying yes, Lord, and here they are.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um they've made sacrifices.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: So if we're gonna um if we're gonna be thoughtful, engaged citizens, like let's quit demonizing people who agree to serve.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: Let's stop saying it's us versus them.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right, yeah.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's us versus us.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right, right, yeah, ultimately.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_04: And and as a believer, I don't know who the believers are in any given administration at the federal level, at the state level, but gosh, I'm called to pray for them.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: Because I don't know what the questions they hold.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what they're dealing with at home.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's like that quote, you know, everyone be kind.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone is fighting a battle.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_04: So let's reinject some civility.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, let's be kind.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_04: And as believers, we're probably called to be leaders in that.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_05: I would say so.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_05: And just the way we interact with one another, just you know, even that's the part I think that's probably rubbed me the most wrong is the way and it was just social media and the way people are towards each other and the way they are towards whatever politician that they don't agree with, you know, the name calling, the slander, the you know, the ugly articles, all the things like that.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_05: But you know, and we're just always looking for what's wrong or like a witch hunt all the time.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_05: And it just reminds me of even what Jesus said about um the wheat and the tares growing up together.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_05: And he said, Don't go around trying to pull up tears.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_05: It'll all pan out in the end.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_05: You just keep doing what you're doing.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_05: Because you know, the kingdom of God is here.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_05: So you do what you're supposed to do.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_05: Do not waste time trying to pull up tears and find the evil and who's who's the wolf in sheep's clothing, because it's a waste of time and you have stuff to do.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_05: Like just don't it'll all pan out later.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_05: That's not our job.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_05: And so there's I think if we stop doing that, it would just go a long way.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it wouldn't be.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because again, and this is a an over bigger issue of social media um where we hide behind a screen and we take the people out of it.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: And if we put inject people feelings, and you know, their passions may, I mean, there may be something really personal that's connected to that, why it's coming out that way or why they're especially bent one way or another.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, I you know, and I think too, it's yeah, just if we take that time to pause and um before we speak or talk, pause before you hit post or share or whatever the button says.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, is this kind?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_03: Is it necessary and is it beneficial?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is it true?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_04: Right, and is it uh I mean is I mean, is it even true?
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_04: Well, do you even know if it's true?
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, just pulled up that, you know, before you speak, think.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_04: Is it true?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_04: Is it um is it sometimes like honoring?
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_04: Honorable.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: Is it important?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_04: Is it necessary and is it kind?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_04: Right, you know, there's a whole slew of things that are not necessary to be said, right?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um and I'm guilty.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, oh my gosh, when Facebook memories sometimes they pop up and like the person I was, say five years ago pops up, I think, oh my gosh, and then joking.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_05: So you're not sharing those compassion on the people that are still doing that and the things I do myself, yeah.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_05: Ridiculous.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_05: But but yes, totally.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_05: And you know that there are people I know to be gen generally good, kind people, and then I see stuff and I think, are you joking?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_05: Are you the same person?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_05: Is that the same thing?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_05: Do you see what's happening right now?
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_04: Or even just if you wouldn't say it to your friends, yeah, to your and yeah, why are why sitting across the table?
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_04: Why is it okay to write it?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and they're like, let don't hit post unless it's something you're willing to stand in front of any one of those people who is your Facebook friend.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um but that's a whole nother topic.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_05: It is a whole nother topic.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: So what eventually for you, and I know a little bit of this answer, but you you said eight years ago, right?
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, eight years ago.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I um my husband um is in the military.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_04: We got we were set up by friends, um, one of those wonderful Oh, good friends.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love set up by friends because it's two people who just really thought you were great and they knew you.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely, you know.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_04: So he's working at an Air Force base in Idaho and uh goes to Thanksgiving dinner at his squadron commander's house.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_04: And at the time, his squadron commander's mother-in-law and is there, and uh his squadron commander's wife is um kind of like a big sister to me.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: Her parents and my parents were lieutenants in the Air Force together, and um Jenny's big sister was my mom's flower girl.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_04: Oh and so um he's sitting, you know, poor man sitting at Thanksgiving dinner with his boss and his boss's wife and his boss's mother-in-law, and I'm like, Oh, you're from Virginia.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_04: We have we know this girl in Virginia you should meet.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I got a phone call.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, by the way, Rose gave your um phone number and email address to this Air Force officer in Idaho.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, you know that scene in Sleepless in Seattle where he pulls Tom Hanks pulls the map down and he's like, Do you see how many states in between where we are?
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_04: That was sort of my thought, like, hi, Idaho.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_04: All right, Virginia.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, this is not uh so it didn't make a lot of sense, but God doesn't always do it that way.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_04: So um we uh ended up becoming friends and dating, and um we got married in um the summer of the end of the summer of 2008, so almost 10 years ago.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and I left DC ahead of um the end of the Bush administration.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_04: And um we came to Missouri.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: Good old Missouri.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so I lived in the flyover states during the election of 2008, and that was eye-opening uh just to to suddenly be surrounded by people who didn't really want to talk about politics, they didn't really care, and if they had an opinion, they weren't looking for mine, they wanted to be a little bit.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_04: Right, they just oh oh interesting.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_04: So it was it was sort of this, oh, where have I landed?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, huh?
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_04: But um ended up keep I got to keep writing um and was Mrs.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_04: Bush's speechwriter for four years.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_04: Which is so cool.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_04: They went to D so cool back to Dallas from DC.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_04: So uh so I'm military spouse.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_04: We've got two kids and um we've moved seven times and ten years.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: But um yeah, kudos to you, and I know that that's something that we want to talk about.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we I think the the cool thing as you all will come to find out is that Katie has just a a breadth of experience and like just this crazy, crazy life, and we all have lived crazy lives, but there's just some stories and things that um that you have, you know, you've learned from.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: You've been just obedient and you're walking out, stewarding your life and your talents and your time.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's gonna be really fun to see how um, yeah, just other things that we're gonna get to share along the way because there's we've really glossed over a ton of stuff.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: We had we did a lot.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_04: We started with one and we did, we did, and we we had to start somewhere.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_04: We just gotta dive in right there.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_04: That's the two things that I you know, let's talk about politics, let's talk about faith, let's talk about religion, and yeah.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it was been really fun to be back in Missouri for another assignment and um get to meet you through Sarah and um then just sort of fall into the simply wholehearted collective, so it's pretty neat to think about.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's crazy.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, because for you, I mean, we kind of started your story in Virginia and Young Life, and that's how you got connected with the Higgertys essentially, and that's been like a 20-year connection, and then we get to be part of the unseen launch and connect through there.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you were moving back to Missouri during that time.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and then we were like, Oh, we should connect sometime.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I I didn't even know where White Man Air Force Base was, so it's in the middle of cornfields, yeah.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I had like when you were talking about that, I was like, Oh, surely that's not that far.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: Come to find out it's really far, but it's like an hour and a half, yeah.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's like an hour from Kansas City from here, yeah, in here, yeah.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_04: So hour and 10 minutes.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_04: But we could really out there, she is really out there, yeah.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we did drive.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_04: The closest town is knobnoster.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_05: Knobnoster makes me like knobnoster every time we go to Alabama.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: It reminds me of like a silver dollar city ride.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know what it reminds me of.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's so Missouri, right?
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_03: Knob Noster.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: You're where you're you're getting married and moving aware.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so it's a great little town just shy of 3,000 people.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_04: But no, really, you know, when we first got married and moved out here, I I had this moment of you know, one joke after another, you know, like there's not a stoplight in town, there's a four-way.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I came from living in the District of Columbia.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_04: So, um, but you know, 10 years later, there's a cute little market um that one of the military spouses opened.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's literally like a mom and pop, like in an old uh bank building from the 1800s.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, we need to take a little field trip.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_04: The safe is her um storage, and they have a meal program called Myers Meals, and so you can kind of like Blue Apron or Hello Fresh.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but it's from this bright local grocery bun.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_04: That is fun.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_04: My girls like it because there's a wall of bulk candy.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's so fun.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_04: Oh and they've opened a um a new coffee shop called Coffee Snobs.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, you know, play on the NAM.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_04: So you can bring you can bring the podcast on the road, kind of have coffee snobs.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_04: We do.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_05: We do that live broadcast from coffee snobs.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_05: That would be so fun.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's neat.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the the reality is you realize that anywhere you live, you can find the yeah, find the good.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_05: Well, the base is pretty all inclusive, isn't it?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, does it kind of have what I mean?
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_05: It's not like a city.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_05: Like but you know what I'm saying?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_05: Does it kind of have a case?
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_04: So we have we have a grocery store, we have a commissariat on base, we have a uh like clothing store.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have like a sortacon ish?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_04: Sorticon ish.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's small.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean less options means it's easier to choose.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and but we're also right outside of Warren's Burg, which is a bigger city, and there's a university.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_04: Chipotle.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_04: So which is so important.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_05: Well, what else do you know?
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_05: What else do you need?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_05: I mean Chipotle.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_05: They're building one right outside my neighborhood, by the way.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_05: Where the Starbucks side is part of the building in Big Duncan.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_04: No way.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_05: Directly right across the street.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_05: I can walk to it.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_04: The only thing we're missing in my book is Target, but Target brings me closer to y'all.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it makes you come to Lee Summit.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then we can meet pretty easily in Lee Summit.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's not a big deal.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's really kind of the rule of thumb, right?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like anywhere you go, it's what you make it.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_03: And what do you you have definitely done that in all your moves and you know, the fruit.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, whether you've felt it, you acted your way into you disciplined yourself into that.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: And is it going to reflect?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like that will be a topic.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what else?
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we kind of like, here's the deal like my goal of this wasn't to like have peace.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, world peace, tell you who to vote for, how you should vote, or even how you should feel.
• 1:03:59
  unknown: Sorry.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_05: About what's your favorite date?
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_05: April 25th.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_04: But hopefully it makes politics less scary.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like I think it's good.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_04: Or at least bring it down the bottom, or at least making it personal.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_04: A different way to approach it.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_04: And um no, I fully admit that I don't really watch the news right now.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um I haven't for a couple years.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_04: I get more of my I do more from reading.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, like you can't just put your head in the sand.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe, and actually I'd like to talk about this because this is more of a struggle.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I more of a reality struggle that we can go, okay, today, this is maybe the one thing that will impact impact my life today.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_03: How do you stop the spiral?
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because either way, if you start wh it's like if you start watching news or if you start reading an article, if you click on something on Facebook, it takes you down this rabbit hole of like terrible news articles that we really have no need that do not benefit our lives whatsoever.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_03: Or we go the other way again, where we're like, which is where I more am at in this season where I'm just not reading anything and Spencer, just tell me what I need to know.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_05: If something, if it were under attack and I need to take shelter, somebody call me.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_03: That is kind of where I'm at.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um or if I happen to pass the TVs in the gym and there's like the um the tragic attack that happened yesterday.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um was there a tragic attack?
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um Capitol Hill, I think.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_03: Seriously.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think there was a shooter.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_05: Are you aware?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't know.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sorry.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_03: To write that to you.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'd have to look it up.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm this is so terrible, you guys.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_03: I know nothing.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_03: But so I only knew because I walked.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: I walked where the TV and CNN was playing, and I was like, what happened?
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then I saw like, and they don't know the shooters, whatever um, reasoning, and I haven't followed up.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_03: But all of the No, I don't need to know that.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_05: And that's the thing to be not compassionate.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: No, but it is, but no, but you could get sucked in watching it 24-7 and finding the latest updates.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it's always breaking news.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's always dun dun dun.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, you get like sucked in and and your apps are blown up.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so help us, Katie.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_04: Help us find a middle road here.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_04: So almost anything.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how do you stop the spiral?
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_04: How do you stop the spiral of I don't want to move there?
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_04: How do you stop the spiral of I don't want to do that job?
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_04: How do I how do I stop any negative spiral?
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_04: It is Philippines 4.8.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is lovely, whatever is praiseworthy or excellent.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_04: I'm forgetting a couple others.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_04: Think on those things.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_04: So look for that in anything, right?
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_04: So look for it in any situation, look for it in any story.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not, it kind of feels like an easy way out, but I don't think it is.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think that the biggest- You have to be really thoughtful and intentional.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_04: How we manage our thought life turns into how we live.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_04: So if we're not guarding jealously our thought life on our hearts, then that's gonna manifest in our lives.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_04: If I'm in a bad spot mentally, well, I'm just gonna have a short temper with my kids, and I'm gonna really, I should go to my room and sit and dime out.
• 1:07:22
  unknown: Right.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_04: Or hide in a closet with scartages, dark chocolate paper cups.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't do that at all.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_04: But I do think that if any of those things, the things that are really scary, like we don't know what to do.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like this sounds like first, I don't think anything that is an either-or really is.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like, unless it's a biblical truth, absolutely.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not really sure that the things that we've created, because what if we and this is a you know tangent, but what if we've created it, we've turned it into a black and white issue.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right, right.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's easier for us to think about.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's not maybe supposed to be.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_05: There are a few things that are this or that, and then it's all right.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_04: If it's in the bullseye of the thing, I would like black or white because I like math.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_04: Two plus two equals four.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but so all these things that are hard to think about are these knots, or this negative spiral of, oh my gosh, like look at the drama with the governor of Missouri.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, or look at this because of this happening.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, there's more to what there's always a story behind the story, yeah, right.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_04: And and there's always people in the middle of the story.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so you know, what are we called as believers in that?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we're called to love God and love people.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_04: So our life manifests that, and then I don't know how to love everybody in DC, and I don't necessarily like everybody in DC, but I can pray for everybody in DC.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_04: No, I think that I think that's not it's not a you know, it's not a cop-out, but it's a just boil it down.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_04: Anything that's really complex, look for the least common denominator.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_04: And as a believer, the least common denominator is to pray for people.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like pray for even pray for our enemies, right?
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_03: Stay knowledgeable, don't get sucked into it, you know, and and also then like what's gonna guard the thoughts and your emotions, and you know, if that's gonna make you spiral emotionally, then you need to put a tighter guard around it.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, love is the the least, you know, prayer love is the least common denominator, and so we have to learn to look, and this is not something I always do well.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just learning, I'm just something that keeps coming across my path, you know, as I'm reading things and whatever, it's just reminders to look beyond whatever you see right in front of you, whether it's what's scaring you, whatever it is, fear, all those things, look beyond that to something higher because there's always something higher.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, God is always here everywhere, He's always His way is always an option, and so everything is complex.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_05: Like all the all the hot button issues and the things, you know, the lightning rods are always very nuanced and complex.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_05: There are no easy answers, is what I'm trying to say.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_05: Everything is nuanced, yeah, and everything sets off a chain reaction if you want to talk politically.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, if there's always you do this one thing, you don't understand that all these other things are gonna happen, and what are you gonna do?
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_05: Let's just say we change that law.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, now what?
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_05: Now we're gonna do all that, right?
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you're gonna have to address all that now.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_05: Or you know, you keep it this way, then what are you gonna do about that?
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_05: And so, but love is always higher, prayer is always an option.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_05: I like that.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_05: These is these are easy, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and and gratitude.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right?
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's good.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's it's be thankful, right?
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like, would you like that job?
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you don't want to go do the job, be grateful someone is someone is doing it, right?
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, then if you're close enough, help them do it well.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_04: That's good.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Katie.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_03: You're welcome.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for sharing.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'd really like to keep talking.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_03: And Ashley, I think you had one more question.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think I did.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I always have more things I could do.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but I think we're done.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think the problem is our children mine aren't here, it's not mine.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_04: So there's what, five kids here?
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Five kids.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_05: I think we did pretty good.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_05: I think they've done really well.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_04: Between the ages of four and eleven.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's impressive.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: And with one whispering in our ear, when are you done?
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_05: Are you ever going to finish?
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_05: My kids really didn't hear all the stuff.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's an hour.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_03: Would you like to contribute anything to this conversation?
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_03: As you're being recorded?
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_03: We have a microphone right here.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_05: What would you like to say?
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_03: What would you like to say?
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Kate.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, thanks.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Appreciate it.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_04: Good job, Miles.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I hope we've given you some good food for thought.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_03: I can say for me, I know it's time to get my head out of the sand a wee bit and become a little more engaged with current events.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_03: And if I continue to remember God is on his throne no matter who is in leadership, then truly the best and most effective thing I can do is pray.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_03: And through prayer, I'm fairly confident the Lord will help, direct me in wisdom, and show me how to best love others well.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'd sure love to have you connect more with Katie.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_03: You can follow her on Instagram and read more about this topic on her blog.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, you'll be seeing her contributions on all the stuffly wholehearted socials.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_03: If you enjoyed this conversation and you've yet to listen to the inspiring Memorial Weekend special, I encourage you to listen to episode 53 with Kelly Campbell.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's an incredibly moving story, and it'll encourage you to gratefulness for our freedom.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, and we still have both of our mini-series available for you to join.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_03: You'll get eight weeks of inspiration.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_03: First one's for more soul time, and that one's for anyone looking for some more room for your soul to breathe.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_03: And for your mamas out there, we have ideas galore to create meaningful moments with your kids.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Also, be on the lookout for the Principal July calendar, full with 31 ideas to better connect with your kids this summer.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, thanks for not keeping this podcast all to yourself.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Truly, each of your ratings, your reviews, and your shares are really important and valuable to us.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Until next week, we hope you'll be joining us as we discover more ways to live a simply wholehearted life.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_03: Unplugged, purposeful, and intentional.