Latest / Takin’ A Walk Nashville / Takin’ A Walk Nashville: Skip Ewing on Nature’s Role in Authentic Country Music and Songwriting Journey

Transcript

Takin’ A Walk Nashville: Skip Ewing on Nature’s Role in Authentic Country Music and Songwriting Journey · Takin’ A Walk Nashville

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Taking a Walk Nashville.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Hey y'all, it's Sarah Harrelson, your host of the Taking
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: a Walk Nashville podcast. Thank you everyone who has been
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: tuning in this year. If you want to follow us
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: on socials, you can find me at Sarah Harrelson on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook,
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: and now we have an Instagram for Taking a Walk
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Nashville at takin a Walk Nashville if you want to
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: follow us there, and then at Taking a Walk Podcast
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: on Instagram for all Buzznight Media productions podcasts. So I
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: hope you will follow along on socials and today with
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: me here in East Nashville, back at the Russell Podcast
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Studio in the Russell Hotel, I have with me Skip Ewing.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: A natural born storyteller, His gift for vivid soundcraft and
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: true to life human connection made him a chart topping
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: star at the turn of the nineteen nine nineties, with
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: six top twenty hits, including the top five country classics
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Burning a Hole in My Heart and It's You Again.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Ewing's eagerly await a new album, Dragonfly, now sees the
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: veteran artist bringing his extraordinary life experiences to bear on
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: such essential new songs like I Want It All, which
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: is climbing the country radio charts, and Say Yes. Please
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: join me today for my conversation with Skip Ewing.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Taking a Walk Nashville with your hosts singer
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: songwriter Sarah Harrelson.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, it's Sarah Harrelson, your host of Taking a
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Walk Nashville and today here with me. As I mentioned
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: is Skip Ewing. Skip, thank you so much for being
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: on Taking a Walk Nashville today. How are you?
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Absolutely my pleasure and I'm well, thank It's nice to
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: meet you.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Nice to meet you too. So you have released a
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: few songs already this year, including Stronger where You're Broken
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: featuring me Estes. Tell me about how this collaboration came about.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I love the concept behind the song.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Well, the concept just came because one I love May Estes,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: and two as we went into the record this record,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: I had a feeling there might be some features, but
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: I sort of let it, sort of let the tracks
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: tell me what might work. And I met May this
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: is before she had her record deal, and she and
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: she and a friend of mine, Josh METHENI covered a
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Randy Travis song that I wrote and I shared it
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: on my socials because I just thought she did a
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: great job of it, you know, and that's how we
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: sort of knew each other and then ended up seeing
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: her when I was in Nashville one time, just meeting her,
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: and she was delightful, you know, and she's incredibly talented.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: So when it came up for that particular song, I
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: had from the outset thought that it would benefit from
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: a feature with a female artist, and so I just
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: called her for a I said, if I have a choice,
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: it's you. She's like, she's very she was very kind
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: about She's like, okay. So yeah, so we went and
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: we booked a studio, went in and just cut it,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: cut it that day, and shot a music video in
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: the same studio we were we were recording, and that's
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: the way that came down.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw the music video. Was that at a
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: recording studio in Nashville.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: That was it? Blackbird? Okay, Blackbird Studios has I don't
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: know a B, C, D, E, F and G studios
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: at least, and uh, we cut that, We cut the album.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: In fact, we cut the first half of the Dragonfly album.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: That's that's coming that stronger where you've broken this going
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: to be from the Dragonfly album. We cut that we
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: just finished. That's why I'm in here in Nashville with
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: you is we just cut the second half of the record.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: We cut both of those in the in studio D
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: and it just seemed natural to go ahead and cut
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: the rest in one of the smaller studios there.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, it's such a beautiful song. You've already released
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: a few singles from the new record, Dragonfly. You have
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: more music coming out this year, including April twenty fourth,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: a single Me and God and a Fishing Pole. This
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: is also a beautiful song. What's the inspiration behind this one?
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Truly, the inspiration behind that one was exactly what the
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: song is about. Although I have to say I wasn't,
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: you know, sitting out with a fishing pole and you know,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: and thought about the idea. What that song really is about,
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: to me is the kind of connection that we that
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: we make, or at least that I make, and I
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: think a lot of other people make, to just being
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: out in what is real, not being in the concrete,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: you know, if we don't have to be and I
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: think that I think that if you spend time outside.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: We live in northwestern Wyoming, so I jokingly, not so jokingly,
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: say just take the Grand Tetons National Park and Yellowstone,
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: put them in a bucket and dump that in my backyard.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: And that's where I live. It's not really true, but
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: where I am, there's nobody there. You know. It's my
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: wife and I and our dogs and our horses and
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: sometimes the people who own this historic ranch that were
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: blessed to to live on. And so the time that
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I spend when I'm out hiking, when I'm out on
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: a horse, or when i'm you know, when I'm fishing,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: when I'm just out on the lake, that time is reflective,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: puts me in touch with myself. But there's a communion
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: about that. However, you think about what is bigger than you,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: and most of us, most of us agree that there's
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: something bigger than us. Okay, whether you have whether you
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: know there's a faith that you that you have, or
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: whether you just know there's something bigger than you. I can't.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: I can't look at the stars and not know there's
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: something bigger than me. So when I go out, I
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: like to make that connection, and it always humbles me.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: And when that happens, I tend to I tend to
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: feel really grateful for the life I have, for the
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: relationships that I have, and it'll put you back in
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: touch with it. And then also there's sometimes a bit
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: of healing. It can be everything from forgiving yourself to
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: just being joyous that you're taking breaths in that kind
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: of of a space that you have that as an option,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: even if that's just your freedom, and so thanks and
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: so that you know, it starts off with the very
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: first words, Hey, old man, are you listening? You know,
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: old man, I don't know. I don't know you know,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: but I'll tell you something I haven't told anybody. Have
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: you ever? If you've ever seen the movie Cool Hand
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Luke and Cool has a very old movie and I
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: watched it when I was little, and Paul Newman's. It
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: starts raining and they tell him to get in the truck.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: He's a prisoner. He's getting the trucks, getting the trucks
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: and he's like, I'm not afraid. And he stands out
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: in the rain and he basic he says that, hey,
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: O man, are you there, are you really there? Show
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: me anything, Just give me a sign, give me and
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: nothing happens, you know, And he gets back in the
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: truck and acts like there wasn't a God basically because
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: he didn't have a lightning strike.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: That always struck me like, well, were you waiting for
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: God to kill you? It was already raining. Yeah, it
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: was raining, And that in itself is a connection. So
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: all those elements, I just try to look into those
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: and gather what I can from my own life to
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: better the way I posture my thinking, not my mindset,
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: but basically my mind posture. Is there something I need
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: to adjust? Is there something that will make that will
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: encourage me to be a more understanding? Is there a
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: place where I can just go and feel better about
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: being with myself? And that is hard for some people.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: That's where that came from. That's where me and God
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: in a fishing pole came from. And in it it
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: also says, man, this is how some Sunday mornings go,
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: or how my Sunday morning s goo. Well, some people
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: will go, well, it's Sunday morning. Shouldn't you be at church?
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: And I say that depends only if you go to church.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Not everyone goes to church. Not everyone who believes in
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: something being bigger than them goes to church or even
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: has that option. And so I don't know, you know,
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: I don't know everyone's believes. I only know mine. But
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: as I'm on my walk and talking with people when
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: I sing that song, it's amazing how many people go,
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: that's exactly, how that's exactly, And that's what I hope
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: for when I'm doing what I'm doing, want to I
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: do it to reach to genuinely reach people. I say,
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: it's about hearts and not charts. I don't know if
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Me and God in a Fishing Pole is going to
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: be on mainstream radio or allowed to be there. I
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: don't know if it's going to be a number one song,
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: but I believe we're going to reach people with it.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: And by doing that, it's a chance for this artist
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: career that I'm taking on that I really haven't had
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: like this before. It's a chance for that to be
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: you know, embraced and grow up to where we can
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: share that song with many millions of people.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. And you're just telling your own story
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: in that sense that you know, fishing by a Greek
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: or being in nature. That's your own version of church,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: and that's a lot of people's own version of church.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Especially up in Wyoming, was Wyoming, the place where you
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: wrote most of these songs on the upcoming Dragonfly album.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Well, for me, some people, I think when they think
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: about Nashville and songwriting, they think about many many people
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: because it's been it's just been spun that way. Go
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: into a writing appointment and they write together that day,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: and they come up with us and they write it.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: And that happens in Nashville in a writing room or
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: in someone's living room, where sometimes you know, people go
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: down to Florida and they'll all gather it. And for me,
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: it's not quite that since. And I'll just back up
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: for just a sec because you may know that in
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: the mid two thousands, I was a bit artistically unfulfilled.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: If I'm just heart open. I wasn't really ever able
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: to be the artist I wanted to be. I wasn't
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: really allowed to do that, and I it was difficult
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: for me to continue making a living as a songwriter
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: with the kind of songs that I write and that
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: I felt good about writing. I sold everything in Nashville
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: and I went on the road to study horsemanship. That's
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: all I did. I didn't really play guitar that much
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: and sing, and some people knew that I did that.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: A lot of people I was around had no idea
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: that I did anything except work with horses. And that
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: was a spiritual pursuit for me. So by the time
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: we got to Wyoming, which is why I was doing
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: all those horses. The horse work brought me to Wyoming,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: I started messing around, just what do I have to say?
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: And if I don't have any confines? Can I sing?
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: You know? Can I sing a song about a petroglyph?
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Can I have a dog sing a song? Can I?
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: And it sounds odd, but these were things I really
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: needed to say. Can I have someone in the eighteen
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: hundreds speak in a way that we don't even speak
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: now because it's the right thing to do?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: And I played with that, but I wrote all that
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: by myself, And as I was doing that, I kept
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: looking into why does that move me? And so I
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: will come up with things now. Could be a little
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: piece of music, could be an idea, could be a
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: line that's going to be in a song, could be
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: a title. But that doesn't mean I write it right then.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: It might mean that I kicked that around for a
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: while and just basically say, do I understand everything I
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: need to understand to be able to write that seed
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: and grow it up into if you want to call
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: it a tree of a song, right, Oh, I don't know.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: So sometimes I'll start something in Wyoming, be on the road,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: be in a hotel in Houston, get an idea, and
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: work on that hotel in Houston till we have to
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: do a show, and the next time I'm in Nashville
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: to pull it back out and go that I gotta
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: work on that. I don't know, because I'm writing by
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: myself and it's a different journey. So I would say
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: a lot of it came from for me when I
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: was in Wyoming. But honestly it was just because I
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: was in Wyoming, you know. But me and God, I remember,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: I was, I was at a I was at an
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: Airbnb in on Twelfth Avenue in Nashville, and I just
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: had been messing around with a guitar thing, you know,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: and I had this idea, is there any way to
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: make that connection that's not religious so much religious that
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: it identifies as only that space, but could identify for
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: anyone's However, anyone is getting their arms around who they
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: think God is or who they think the universes or
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: who they think they are, and I sort of came
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: up with it there and then finished it.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: It's beautiful. I'm really looking forward to the coming single,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Me and God in a Fishing Pole. Can you tell
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: us more about your journey with Nashville, what led you
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: here to having your success in Nashville in your first
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: record deal, and then talk more about your transition. What
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: made you feel like maybe you were starting to feel
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: out of your element in Nashville and wanted to go
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: work in horsemanship and be in Wyoming.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Big story there. I know you guys did pretty deep here,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: so that's kind of why I'm giving you some longer
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: answers than I might than I might otherwise. So I'll
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: answer that the best way I can. I don't remember
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: when I didn't play guitar. So I was told by
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: my family at the time that I had asked for
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: a guitar and I was about four, and I had
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: seen something on television. I think it might have been
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: an episode of Glenn Campbell's Good Time Hour or something right,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: and you know, I just I don't know, but that's
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: kind of what they told me. So I don't remember
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: not playing guitar. And long story, short about guitar. I
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: didn't know what I was doing. I had no idea.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: There was so much work to be done and not
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: really any money or opportunity to have very many guitar lessons.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: I had a few, but I would take a pink
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: foam curler like women still wear, with those little snap
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: pink plastic things and the foam curlers, and I would
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: push that up underneath my strings on my guitar, all
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: the way up against the saddle, and it mutes the
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: strings so you can still hear the tone, but nobody
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: else in the house could hear me play. And I
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: just played whatever I could think. So basically I was
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: making up stuff on the guitar and I was listening
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: to what I could when I could. But I would
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: make stuff up. Well the next thing, if I was
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: making that up, I had to have other stuff to
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: go with it, So I started making stuff up to
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: go with it. I learned how to play a lot
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: of different instruments, and I wasn't worried. I didn't think
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: about commercialism. I just thought, what goes with this? You
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: know what am I thinking about? Well, at the time,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I was a kid, I didn't know much about life,
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: you know, and I learned as many songs as I could. Well,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: I just followed music, you know, for a while, and
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: I mean I did musical theater. I played lead guitar
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: for Jesus Christ Superstar for a while. I did, you know,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: I sang in magical groups, you know. I did so
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: many different I studied classical guitar, song, learned how to
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: play a piano, five string banjo. Heck man, I kind
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: of ran away at least two or three times to
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: go to a bluegrass festival that I wasn't supposed to
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: go to. And anyway, I got offered a chance to
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: work in Nashville. And it wasn't originally my thought, oh
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: I'll do country music. It was the opportunity I had.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: And I just sat in the trailer behind the theater
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: where we were doing this show, and I would play
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: this got string guitar that I had bought from somebody
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: for ninety bucks, and I would just write whatever I
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: could while I was out there. Some people heard about
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: that asked me to a writer's night. I got a
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: publishing deal and that is what led me to where
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I was. So then I think there was still well,
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: no I know, there was still a self discovery that
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: whole time, learning about songwriting and then getting a real
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: lesson in what was commercial, what was writing for someone else,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: because I never thought about that. I mean when I
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: was a kid, you could have said, you know what,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: someday you're going to write a song that Merle Haggard's
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: going to sing it, or Willie Nelson's going to sing it,
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: or George Jones is going to sing it, or George
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Strait is going to sing it, you know, go on,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: or Keith Urban's going to sing it, or Secar. And
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: then if somebody said, oh no, never mind, they're all
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: going to sing your songs, Okay. I would never have
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: thought that that would ever have happened. But that was
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: the journey. Well that was me, honestly, just writing the
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: best I could. It wasn't me already being a good writer.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: It was me maybe having some of the raw goods
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: because I'd worked on it. I don't know how that works.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I still don't know if there's some seed in someone
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: that says you're going to be a good writer, or
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: you're not going to be a good writer, or you'll
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: never be even if you apply yourself. I tend to
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: think that it's something that can be learned. I think
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: that I think you can You can get better at
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: any at any pursuit that you want to if you
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: apply yourself. Maybe there's some natural proclivities that someone has
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: that leads them there. But you know, otherwise we wouldn't
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: know what a good song was if we hadn't written it.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: You listen to a song and you know it's good.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: So if you know it's good, you could chase it
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: in the other direction and probably get closer. Right well,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: you know, by the time that I got I had
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: tried worked on being an artist. I was offered a
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: record deal, had a verious I shouldn't say very successful,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: but I had a fairly successful first record. I had
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: five hit songs off of it, and it sort of
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: it's it sort of became where the people around me
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: that I was cutting records for were telling me the
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: songs I was writing were terrible and they weren't going
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: to work on Country Tree Radio, and I started trying
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: to please them in one way, but I was still
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: writing the songs that I really liked. Those are the
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: songs that got recorded Love Me that I wrote for
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: that Colin Ray recorded for instance, it was nominated ACM
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Song of the Year. It's been played millions of times
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: on the radio. I can't go to a country and
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: do a show where people don't know the words to that.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: And I was told it was a terrible song, would
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: never be played on the radio. I couldn't record it.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: And if I would bring them something that was good,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: then we might have a record together. So you can
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: see how that it's conflicting information. You can't point a
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: finger in say look how wrong those guys were. Everything
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: sounds every song sounds more like a hit after it's
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: a hit. It's never a problem to hear a song
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: as a hit after it's a hit. So they were
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: just offering their opinion. Well, that opinion was incorrect at
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: the time, you know, as we now know, and it
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: led me into songwriting. Well, fast forward that, you know
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: a few years. Songwriters don't get paid a heck of
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: a lot. We all know that. We we we say
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: we know it, but then we don't. Then we kind
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: of don't think. Well, wait a second, how much does
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: a songwriter make? How many songs? How many successful songs
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: do you have to write in a twenty five year
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: period to be able to afford, you know, to everything
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: that you need. Not only that. When I got to
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: a space in that kind of time, I had a
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: number of different music business frustrations. There were some things
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: that happened to me that again I just went, how
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: can somebody justify doing that? I'm not going to throw
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: anyone under a bus, but it was enough for me
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: to go, this is I don't want to be involved
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: in that kind of thing. I don't, I don't want,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: I don't. In fact, there's a song on Dragonfly that's
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: coming out and it's it's it's maybe we'll do another
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: one of these and we can play that song or
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: so we talk about that song specifically because I illuminate
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: that not anything specific, but something people will understand. And
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: this caused me to look deeply into myself and go,
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: if I can't make a living enjoying what I'm doing,
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: if I have to sort of bang my head against
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: the rider's room window or wall to write something that's
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: going to make someone else money, and I'm unhappy. I
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: don't see that as something that blossoms at all artistically.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I don't see that as something even where I'm able
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: to offer the hearts of people that I care about,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: and those people I don't know my best work. In
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: the meantime, I had fallen in love with horses, and
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I had fallen in love with horses not just because
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: I was riding them. I was going to Wyoming. I've
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: been going there since two thousand. Every time I went,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: I stayed longer, and every time I stayed longer, I
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: spent more time around horses, not just riding them, but
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: watching them going. There's a lot here, there's a lot
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: of communication I know nothing about. I am sitting on
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: top of a being who has so much much more
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: going on than I gave any credit to. I'm blind.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: I'm absolutely blind. I need to find out what I
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: don't know. What have they got to teach me? Boy?
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: I started digging that in. I was humbled. I was
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: knocked over. Might as well just hit me with a truck,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: knocked over by what I didn't know and what they
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: had to show me. So I said, at that time, well,
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: I'm not really able to do what I have to.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: You know what I can do that is bringing me
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: any kind of joy. I'm not really making a lot
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: of money, that's for sure, So it's not worth the money.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: So what about all the relationships I have in life,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: including the one with myself? What will I not have?
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: What will I not be able to go around the
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: sun with? How many times am I going to go
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: around the sun? I don't know. How many breaths am
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: I going to take? I don't know, but I am
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: now going around the sun taking breaths With the information
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: I've got from that, that showed me more of who
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: I enjoy being as a person, and it gave gave
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: me a much deeper appreciation for what I could allow
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: other people and seeing them what I could, what I
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: could be immediately forgiving of I mean immediately forgiving. If
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: you watch a horse in a in a in a
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: field and they have a problem, this is a really
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: interesting thing. A horse will basically say no, this is
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: not okay. And if they have a difficulty, this is
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: not not If not If it's two stallions going after
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: each other because they want to mate, okay, that's not it.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: That's not it. But in another situation, somebody says, you're
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: not eating with me. Whatever it is, I got on this,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: I'm going to move your feet. It happens quick. It's
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: like I'm warning you and warn you again, then hey,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: and then it's done. Seconds later, it's all that go oh,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: and they're eating, they're just hanging out. That doesn't happen
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: with people sometimes, but it happens with me now more
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: about myself and a lot more for other people. Well,
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: I had let music basically go. I mean I could
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: still play. I still did that, but as I got
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: into that, I was learning about relationships. And then I
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: began even doing clinics and working with other clinicians, having
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: looked deeply into that relationship and really being able to
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: help a horse understand how to have a relationship better
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: with humans, but more importantly, how to help us humans
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: often be able to go, this is how we have
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: a better relationship with the horse. And most of the time,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: you might as well say to the horse, you know,
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: what's this? That was my fault. Let me get out
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: of your way. Let's try that again. I might be
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: inviting you, you might supposed to be doing something, but
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: I've got to set you up to win because you're
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: a horse and you don't know. You don't know, but
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: I'm merely asking you. I've got to help you understand that.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: And you know what's really cool, there's not been a
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: horse ever. Who asks me about Kenny Chesney, haven't had
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: a single horse ever? Say hey, what's Kenny Chesney? Like?
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: That's not bad, right? But it also doesn't know any
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: song I've ever written, doesn't care what my name is.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: The Only thing it cares about is what is real?
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Like what is real? Not what I think is real?
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: But what's really going on with my body? What's the
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: energy I'm sending? How authentic is how genuine is it?
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: And how skillful am I at expressing that with my
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: body and the energies that I give. And if you
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: ever go out and around a horse with me, I
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: can very quickly show you what I mean. This was
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: so akin so closely related to what I realized was
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: songwriting because of my relationship to what I was writing
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: and the people for whom I was writing, myself included.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: I don't think I don't write for myself and only
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: for others, but I do think about both of those
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: things all the time. Now. It's like when you're working
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: with a horse, if the human forgets that you have
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: a relationship, if it stops being we and the horse
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: goes one way and the person goes another, it's almost
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: never good for the person right So for me also,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: as I'm doing music, I'm I think about those other
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: those other people. I think about you, you know, if
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I know you, If I'm think if I'm gonna sing
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: right here, if I was going to sing right here,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I would be thinking about this whole situation and who's listening,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: you know. So if you're listening right now, basically what
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: I imagine is there is someone listening. Not a million
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: people listening, but a million individuals are listening with the
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: possibility of putting their life into the words I'm offering
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: or the song I'm offering and seeing how it fits.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Can I get my life in there? Somehow? Does that
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: move me? Because it brings up what it brings up
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: the experiences that I've had, where I can grow, where
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: I can celebrate, where I can cry, where I can
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: be you know, super happy. Maybe so, I hope so,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: because that's what we're doing. Well. By the time we
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: got to Wyoming, that's when my wife said, after I
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: was messing with these other ideas, she said, you need
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: to put the journeys together. That's what you need to do.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: And so then I was just going to do stuff
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: for fun because I didn't know for sure I'd be
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: able to come back and do something in Nashville commercially.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: So the songs that I were writing were very different.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: On the Wyoming record, there's some really interesting stuff and
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: I will forever be happy that I wrote them, because
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: now I can't go and do shows without people asking me.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: And it's for the more obscure songs sometimes like Margo
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Lane or the Cowboy Inside or you know, or a
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Railroad or Patrickglyph, these things that are much different than
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: you you know, are going to get played on mainstream
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: country radio or even Americana. And yeah, so that just
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: took steps from there to a second record, and we
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: had a little bit of a really fun song called
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: road Dog that was about a dog literally singing about
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: about love to be in the truck I mean, or
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: the car or whatever it was, and that hit a
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: chord with so many people, you know. And so then
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: we started this Dragonfly project, and although we have released
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: a few songs on it, we certainly haven't released a record.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: And you know, we put out a song called I
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Want It All, which was basically the first the first
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: radio single, but it didn't go out to mainstream radio.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: It went out to radio stations who are still able
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: to make a choice about what they want to play
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: on the radio station. We found out that a lot
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: of people wanted to play what I was making, and
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: we ended up having a number one song on the
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: independent you know, on the fully independent chart because I
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: don't have a I don't have a record label, and
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: it stayed in the top five for weeks and weeks. Okay,
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: this was an indication that people were enjoying listening, and
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: I went and a team began to gather around me.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: When all this starts to happen, it resonates with right
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: as far as it resonates with possibility, and I have
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: to listen to that if I'm if we're going in
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: that direction, and everyone around me is loving what they're doing,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: believing in what we're doing, and it's and it's when
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: I say resonate, I mean you can, you know, you
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: can you can feel that. Sometimes you get an inkling
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: this is just why are we wasting our time here?
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: You know, we'll do it because the money's there. But
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: if that starts happening, then you reassess. But that's not
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: what's happening right now. And and so that I know
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: is a little bit longer edited how you want, but
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: that's really how. It's not a journey of song after song,
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: or one state to another or one horse to another.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: What it is is it's it's a journey of understanding.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: It's a journey of not me having humility, but of
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: me being humbled. Whether I liked it or not, I
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: could not be. You know, imagine me saying, okay, I'm
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: not going to do anything with music now. Okay, That's
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: what I did my whole life. That's what I did.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: If people liked me, it was because of that. You know.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: If people were making money off of me, it was
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: because of that. All of a sudden, doesn't matter what
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: my name is, doesn't matter what I've written, doesn't matter
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: who I know, doesn't matter what kind of money I'm making.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: When I walk down there and I'm going to spend
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: time with this amazing animal, like a horse or a dog,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: there's many similarities, and I go down there, that's what
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: I am, and that's all. That's all there is. That's it.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: That is, in its own way, freeing, humbling, a bit scary,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: and it is both an opportunity and a responsibility. If
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: I'm going to take responsibility for this horse, which I
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: am his or her safety and well being. While we're
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: doing that, I'm also taking that responsibility for me. But
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: it's an opportunity for us both to learn, for us
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: both maybe to have an incredibly positive, you know, experience
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: learning how to have a relationship together. Because I kept going,
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: if horse doesn't have a relationship with humans, if a
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: horse doesn't have that relationship, it really doesn't have a life.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Nobody wants to keep it around. And yet when a
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: horse is born, its mom doesn't go, hey, you better
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: do good with these guys, because otherwise they're going to
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: send you off somewhere and you're not going to be
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: around anymore. Nope, they don't do that. They don't know
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: any better. They just have to learn this is why,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: and when it feels good to do that, when it
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: feels good to do that, when that invitation is like, hey,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: I got an idea, let's do this together. Okay, because
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: I know this is good for you. Let's do this together.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: And then if I'm wrong, I'll probably be wrong more
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: than you. And anytime i'm wrong, I'm gonna do my
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: best to go Okay, wait, wait, that was my fault.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: I'm putting no pressure on you. Please, let's do that again.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: So imagine that in a person's place. Right, Let's say
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: you're so kind because I'm sitting here like talking so much.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: I know that's what you want and you're letting me right.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: So if I go, oh, right, next time we do it,
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: did I talk too much? Maybe so? But if I did,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: you know what I'd want to handle is I would
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: want to say, you know what, I'm sorry, I talked
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: too much. All at the same time, that really wasn't
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: as skillful as I could have done that. Let me
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: try that again. Let's try that again. I know I
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: can do better. That will take away a lot that
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: could have manifested between us, that could have been negative.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: And this is a random thing I'm saying right, happens
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: all the time with a horse. Just nope, Let's try
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: it again. Let the whole thing go. Let's do it again,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: and when it feels good, we'll both know. And the
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: next time it comes up in any relationship, I feel
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: if you can realize quickly you made a mistake, you
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: really could have done it more skillfully. The minute you
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: say that to a person, I believe they'll see themselves
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: in it. If you're authentic, you go, that was so
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: unskillful of me. Okay, whatever it is, I raise my voice,
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: I use language I shouldn't have used. It can be
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: worse than that can be. Or I didn't even see that,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: you know, I am so sorry. Let me do Look,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I can do that way more skillfully. You didn't deserve that.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: Give me another shot. Almost always let you.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: So now we're back to music. So here I am.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: I wanted to be an artist. They wouldn't let me
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: cut the songs I wanted to cut. Now I'm older.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: Some people even say my voice is better. I don't know.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: It's different, that's for sure. The way I look at
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: relationships is certainly different, and the way I offer music
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: is different. But it does have all this time that
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: I've spent working on a craft that I really believe in,
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: and there are new ways to think about the way
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: we make records, and there there's a different sort of
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: spectrum of the way people pay attention to music. And
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: one thing I know about me is there's going to
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: be easter eggs, no doubt. Okay, there's not a song
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: I'm going to rise. It's not going to have some
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: kind of easter egg, and if you listen to it
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: a second time, I'm hoping you'll find something you didn't
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: find the first time. But also there's the opportunity for
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: me to say it differently than anyone else, which allows
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: me to be both an artist as a writer and
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: an artist as a singer. And by from me when
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: I say artist, my artistic voice is how I express
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: myself on a guitar. I have done that my whole life.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: I don't remember when I didn't. How I sing and
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: that and by how I sing, I'm not talking about
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: the notes that I choose so much as what's the
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: well I'm drawing from, what's the emotional well, whether that's fun,
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: whether it's romantic, whether it's powerful, whether it's scary, whether
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: it's sad, whether it's ultra happy. Where am I drawing from?
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: And that is an artistic voice in the same way
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: it will be a way that I write something. Hey,
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: old man, are you listening? It's the first line of
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: a song. Nobody knew what that is. I'm hoping they go, well,
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: is he talking to what is that? Let's listen to
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: the next line. Are you listening? I know my life's
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: been full of sin. I probably got no choice, no
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: chance of getting in. I don't know anyone who hasn't thought, Okay,
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: that's it. I'm not getting into heaven if you think
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: it's if you think there's a heaven, it's a little
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: tongue in cheek, but it's I believe it's it's all
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: of us. And I think that I'm starting to be
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: given an opportunity to be heard. And that's all I
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: can ask for. That's all I can ask for. And
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: the and the great thing is that after doing that,
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: which is a bit scary to do, to do it
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: different than other people, you know, to do it a
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: little different. That's how we that's how we are actually artists.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: I think that's how we're not clones. That's how we're artists,
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: you know. And it's it takes a chance, but man,
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: give me a chance to do it. And now all
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, I'm high as a guite because people
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: are listening. People are going, hey, have you heard this?
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: You should hear this, you know, And the and the
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: numbers start to grow and more people play the song,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: and I get on more awesome podcasts like this, and
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: that's all that's all I can ask That's all I
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: can ask for.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, I love thank you for sharing
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: your story and your journey. And I love the perspective
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: of between a horse and human connection and how that
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: helps you be more connected with humans. And you know,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: like you said, we have to have something to draw
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: from when we're writing or doing music. And if you're
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: in a headspace or place where you can't draw anything anymore,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: that's definitely a good way to realize that maybe you
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: need to put yourself in a different place. And for you,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: that was going to Wyoming be more connected to nature,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: and that's where you found more inspiration to draw from.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: And of course, with all the success you had, you
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: were just in a place where you needed a little
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: break from Nashville. And now you're releasing more music again.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Walk Nashville podcast. Welcome back to Taking a Walk Nashville.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I love when songs are just so timeless, where you
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: know you write it, you think nothing is going to
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: come of it, and then for you, twenty plus years later,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: you heard that Ernest and Laney Wilson are recording a
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: song you wrote in the nineties with Dean Dylan, what
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: if I could. Were you surprised to see the resurgence
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: of that song after all these years?
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Well, certainly, I mean nobody expects that. Yeah, you know,
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: nobody expects that and and so and for it to
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: be then have a chance to be a hit. And
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: that had a really funny story, you know, because Apple
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: invited Lane to do a version, she did a version
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: of it. Ernest had heard it in the meantime he
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: wanted to cut her on his record, so he asked
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Laney if she would do a duet on his record.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: And then when she sort of sort of with the
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: understanding with her record label, wasn't able to put it
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: out as a single with Ernest, which is understandable. Then
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Ernest went in and you know, recorded his second half
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: of the song that Laney and otherwise thing put it out.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: And now people are playing Ernest's by itself, and Ernest
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: and Lane ended up being a hit. In fact, it's
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: on the charts for fifty something weeks, and you just go,
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: how does that happen? I don't know, because somebody discovered it,
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: and because we did a pretty good job writing a song,
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: you know, twenty something years ago, and you go, why
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: didn't he get cut then? I don't know. Did it
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: not get cut then so that Laney and Ernest would
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: do a version of it, don't I don't know. You
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: made me think I could I could we just take
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: a baby step back to something you made me think
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: of it? And could you made me think about an
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: experience that relates exactly to what you said, like how
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: you look at something differently you know that you need
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: to sort of step away. I think I do believe that.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: I think we need to do that a lot. But
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: it reminded me of something I do sometimes. That's a
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: really interesting thing. So if you've never tried this, try this.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: I also have done martial arts for twenty five years
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: at least ever since I was younger as part of
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: what my family did, my adopted family. And there's this
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: warrior technique. Okay, so roll with me on this because
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: I know it's different, but you got to try this, okay.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: So you can do something with your vision that is unusual.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: You can look somewhere, just look at the same place, okay,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: but make sure there's sun there, make sure there's good sun.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Then after you do that, close your eyes and leave
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: your face towards the sun and do that for twenty
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: thirty seconds. Keep your eyes closed, don't do not look
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: at the sun. Doesn't have to be full on straight
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: at you, but just close your eyes and let the
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: sunlight it be across your eyes. Then after that, turn
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: back and look at the same place. When you open
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: your eyes, your vision will be substantially different because of
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: the way you took in that light, and you'll see
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: it with a different clarity. And that's kind of what
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: you described right there, where you take a minute and
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: then you can see it a little more clearly. That's
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: a very quick that's that's thirty seconds later that that
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: really does happen. And so so try it today. Just
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: turned it out and then and try it. So that's
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: sort of a micro you know, a micro thing, but
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: that's a that's a that's a good way of kind
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: of saying, yeah, you know, you don't have to you
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: don't You don't lose the sun, you don't think you
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: just kind of close your eyes and give it, give
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: it a minute, and then look at it again, and
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: what will you see? What will you appreciate better?
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's interesting, is that kind of your perspective
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: returning to Nashville now that you don't live here, do
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: you look at it in a different light when you
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: come here now?
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't point my finger at Nashville in any
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: way at all. In other words, I think that, you know,
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: like I told you that, I have a song the
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: new record that basically is saying, you know, uh, there's
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: a there's a there's there's a really not good thing
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: about the music business. But it's in almost every business.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: There's things like that. You know that really, So I
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: can write that because I've lived it. But Nashville is
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: not the problem. Nashville is not a problem. It's it's
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: it's different than it was in the past. But I
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: guess I don't think about Nashville as an entity now.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: I sort of see the opportunities that are clustered here,
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: and I also see some really capable people who care
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: about what we're listening to, such as whether it's ai,
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: such as whether the content is something that should be shared.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: You know, how are how are we making the decisions
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: about what is getting played and what's not getting played?
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Is it only money? Because if it turns into only
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: money for everyone, it will never feel good, and there
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: are still some things that feel good. I can tell
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: you that I am fortunate enough now that I've put
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: this my artist's career together differently and it's starting to
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: grow exponentially, that I have had people reach out to me,
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: and I have reached out to people that have that
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: kind of resonance. If the kind of team that can
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: get around me is in Nashville inherently, and I know
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: that it is, that means there is a hell of
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: a life that's okay for me to say, a hell
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: of a lot of heart in this town and in
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: this business still right now, no matter what some things
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: are having to no matter how frustrating it can be,
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: no matter how sort of scary it can be, and
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: no matter how many people sort of you know, put
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: it down say country isn't what it used to be,
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. Well, there's meyrit and all those ideas.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: But when I look at Nashville, I say, Nashville has
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: changed dramatically. Well, one thing that hasn't changed is a
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: lot of people's love for what country music is able,
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: the way country music is able to express itself. If
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: that the things were able to say still, and so
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: for that I treasure Nashville, which is different than I
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: think what some people might you know, might might come at.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: It doesn't mean I can't write a song in Wyoming,
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean I can't be on tour and write a
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: song in Arizona, And it doesn't mean that I can't
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: come and spend time here. I've spent more time in
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: Nashville this year than I have in the last you know,
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: six years, even though I was putting music out and
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: I love it, I do. I've had a lot of
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: fun here. Are there things about the music business that
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: I wish weren't the way they are? Of course, just
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: like everybody else, there's not a single person in Nashville
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: in the music business who doesn't wish something was different,
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: all right. So so for me, the main thing is
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: Nashville affords us the community that is able to get
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: behind artistry they believe even and I'm finding that still happening.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: It's a slowly but surely thing. There are some people
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: who have come out and said, you know what, we
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: want to help you skip Seriously, if this is a
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: skip Ing record, we want more of them, and we
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: will work our tails off because that's what this is
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: the kind of thing we want. It doesn't happen as
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: often for whatever reason. If that's happening for me, it's
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: happening for other people, which means the heart of what
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: country music has always been about and what's going on
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: with Nashville from that is still very much alive. You know.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: There might be some places where we have to dig
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: a little deeper to see it or feel it now
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: because there's so much we're just inundated with music, you know.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: But no, I haven't lost I haven't lost my faith
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: at all. In fact, maybe it's just a renewed faith
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: because I'm seeing that. I'm seeing that manifest and if
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: it can manifest, then all we have to do is
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: be credibly incredibly skillful continuing to make that manifest. I
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: want to write the very best I can to reach
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: those kind of people so that anyone who's around me,
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: anyone who gives me a chance, can look at that
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: music and go, yeah, we're okay to represent that. We
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: believe with that, we believe in that, we believe in
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: that talent or my voice or who I am, or
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: the writing or hopefully all of it. And then you
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: don't usually say it about country, but let's rock. I mean,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: you know, let's go let's country. Yeah and yeah, so
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: I have nothing but positive in that sense.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Yeah, thank you for the insight. I was
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: going to say, you keep such a positive perspective, which
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: is so important to have in the music industry. To
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: keep that positivity going, especially through your music. Skip my
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: last question for you today we are on taking a
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: walk Nashville. So what is the most memorable walk you
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: have taken in Nashville?
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: You mean the physical well, because that could be a
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: metaphoric too, So yeah, I.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Say physical, but if you have a metaphoric one, please share.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: Well. The funny thing is that I spend a huge
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: amount of my time walking, so and by that I
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: mean that, you know, I've played guitar for a long time.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: If I have a musical idea, and I have the
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: arms of my sort of understanding of that musical idea,
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: I can set my guitar down and I can still
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: work on something and work with the changes or the
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: melody without having to play my guitar, piano or anything.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: I can just do it in my head a good bit,
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: and so work on a lyric that way, and very
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: often even if I'm inside, I will walk and I
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: have this thing. There's a couple places are where we
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: are really you know, creative, and we free ourselves up
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: in the shower, driving and walking. Those are all places psychologically,
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: maybe physiologically. They say that that is because we do
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: it the same way. Every time you take a shower,
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: exactly the same way every time. When you're driving, you
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: kind of know the way, so you can kind of
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: check out and you don't have to spend that energy
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: on your body. You can spend it it thinking. So
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: I take advantage of it. And so I'll tell you
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: one that came up. But it's not because it's not
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: because of the title. It's not necessarily because of what happened,
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: But it's because of what we can discover when we
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: do stuff like that. Where we live there's nobody around us,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: and everyone goes, oh my gosh when we see pictures
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: on your socials of what that you really have, mountains,
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: you really have like bighorn sheep in your driveway that
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: many those guys, yeah, we really do. Oh man, I
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: wish we lived there. And I will say, well, okay,
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: but what are you wanting to give up? Where are
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: you willing to give up till there? There's no pizza delivery,
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: there's no Asian food, there's no stop signs, there's no
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: fast food. And there's an eight mile drive just to
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: get on a dirt road that will beat any truck
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: up that we have to use an ATV et cetera,
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: et cetera to get there, and we're out in nothing
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: except for beauty. Beauty right. So I can step out
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: my back door with my dogs, who I don't have
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: to put on a leash. They could go anywhere they
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: wanted to. But our dogs stay on the property because
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: they're both those kinds of dogs. But they'll go with me,
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: and I will leave my house. I'll just walk. I
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: can go any direction I want. That's not a typical thing.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: I don't have to go to a certain park or
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: take a certain trail or walk around the block at
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: my house. This is a blessing. It's a gift that
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: we don't that I didn't even think about it first.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: And I can go out and I can I can
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: let that be part of my artistic journey. Every one
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: of those walks is part of my artistic journey, and
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: they're all connected. They could be connected to a zillion songs.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: But this is what happened this year, which this is true.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: I left with the dogs and we're walking out, and
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: about halfway through the afternoon, this blue, bright blue dragonfly
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: literally came over and flew next to me. Not for
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: a long time, but enough time that you could tell
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: it was like right there. I don't know if you
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: know why, I don't know, but it was there and
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: I noticed it, and it didn't really you know, it's beautiful.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: They're there sometimes they're fairly rare, but they're there because
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: we have a lot of water. Where were you know.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: I thought that was so cool because you're staying. I'm
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: like looking at it, you know, you don't usually get
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: these lines getting to look at him. And then he
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: was gone and he went off on his way. As
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: I'm walking back, I went, wait a second, that is
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: really unusual. It has snowed three times already. It is
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: late fall. Kind of seemed like to me. I don't
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: know how to say that in Wyoming, because you just
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: judge it by how bad the weather is, you know
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: what I mean. And I went, it has snowed three times,
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: which means it has also been freezing cold, multiple days,
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: very cold. How in the world did a dragonfly larva
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: turn into an adult or how did an adult stay
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: alive when that's not how how did that even happen?
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: It's kind of magical, you know. Now, that's one of
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: the kinds of walks that I took. But that ended
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: up being the title of the album, A Dragonfly. So
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: this is a memorable walk, but it's it's memorable for
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: the title, but it's also memorable for the rarity of it.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't think it was anything magic.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: I don't have a big thing about magic. Even working
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: with horses, people say horse whisper stuff. I don't think
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: that's true necessary. I think it's a poetic way of
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: describing something that is pretty black and white and concrete.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: Working with a horse. These things happen, and this is
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: why you know by that one. I don't know. I
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: don't know how it happened, but it happened. And I
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: came back and I said, I wonder if we should
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: call this record dragonfly, because what are dragonflies about? Spiritual maturity? Maybe,
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: you know, in the same way that butterflies do, they
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: go through a metamorphosis. There's there and there's so many
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: things you can look in that are said through indigenous
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: societies all the way up until right now, you know,
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: over in the place where they sell candles, right, So
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: that was that was memorable to me because it reflects
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: where we are. I also like to say we I
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: will leave that with a WII because I don't like
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: to say I have an album coming out. I would
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: prefer to say we have an album coming out, we
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: have a single coming out. And some people go, why
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: do you say that? Because the only thing that's different
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: is my name is usually the one that's printed in
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: the largest type, but every single person who's around it
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: has something to do with it. So on that walk
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: and on those decisions and what I was doing, I'm
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: literally walking with everybody that I know, even though I'm
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: by myself. I come back with these kinds of thoughts
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: and it happens. It happens a lot. But that's one
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: of the most memorable walks recently that I've had for
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: a different reason because even then that day, I started going,
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: what can I learn from that? You know, what can
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: I learn from that? And what are we going to
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: record for it?
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: And there you go, that's beautiful. Yeah, I love that
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: the Dragonfly album is connected to taking a Walk and Buzznight,
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: who owns the Taking a Walk podcast, He usually gives
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: his guest with a book that says how to take
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: a walk, and it guides people on how to focus
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: and just stay in check with their surroundings while they
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: take a walk. So you're not just walking with your
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: mind thinking about other things, but staying present. And definitely
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: sounds like you stay present with your walks and you
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: are aware of your surroundings and it becomes music based
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: on your walks. And I think that's so beautiful.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Well, I think that can I think that can be
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: an aspiration. I don't think I'm skillful enough to never,
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: you know, not get lost in my thoughts, but yes,
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: I think there is a great deal to find on
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: any walk, but especially when you can be out in
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: what we call nature walking. You know, walking in the
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: mall is still a positive thing, but walking in wyoming
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: where there's nothing, and you know, you could just as easily,
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: you know, see a bear as anything else that's that's
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: as powerful, yeah, or a dragonfly.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Or a dragonfly yeah, as little we're as small as
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: a kid. There you go, let's skip Youing. Thank you
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: so much for being on Taking a Walk Nashville today.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: It was a pleasure to learn about your journey and
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: we are looking forward to your upcoming album, Dragonfly Awesome
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Me too.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: Let's take another walk soon.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Taking a Walk Nashville with Sarah Harrelson.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Please check out our other shows produced by buzz Night
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Media Productions Comedy Save Me and Music Save Me hosted
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: by Lynn Hoffman, and Take It a Walk hosted by
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Yours Truly buzz Night. All shows are available on Apple Podcasts,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Spotify and are part of the eye Hard podcast network.