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Cubs mailbag: Trade ideas, prospects to watch and more · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: And you're not winning enough, You're going to go back
0:02
Speaker 1: to like I was told this, and I'm going to
0:03
Speaker 1: complain about this. I'm angry about it. Listen, they're light
0:06
Speaker 1: years ahead of where they were a decade ago. Welcome
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Speaker 1: into north Side Territory File Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
0:15
Speaker 1: Sadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We're your Cubs
0:19
Speaker 1: beat writers at the Athletic and Patrick, we are now
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Speaker 1: on YouTube. Not only are we like these are the
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Speaker 1: faces that Craig Council gets to stare at for over
0:30
Speaker 1: three hundred times a summer. Like, what a delight for
0:34
Speaker 1: the fans to experience this. I know you're all thrilled
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Speaker 1: to see us now, to watch us discuss this Cubs offseason.
0:45
Speaker 1: And we have a mail bag to kick it off.
0:48
Speaker 1: Everyone's favorite.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we love hearing from our listeners and readers the
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Speaker 2: positive en negative feedback and shout out to all our friends,
1:00
Speaker 2: the Foul Territory Network behind the scenes. I mean, those
1:02
Speaker 2: people work like twenty four to seven. They got like
1:07
Speaker 2: just an endless supply of shows that they got to
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Speaker 2: get through and they've been a big help on this here.
1:14
Speaker 2: So yes, it should be exciting. I think we'll have
1:16
Speaker 2: some more guests and stuff on the horizon as well.
1:19
Speaker 2: We're still figuring out some of the technology here, so
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Speaker 2: just bear with us.
1:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, if I screw up, you know, don't yell at me.
1:27
Speaker 1: Don't be too angry. I'll try try and get this right.
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Speaker 1: If I forget, I'm on video and walk away to
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Speaker 1: let my dogs out, don't freak out, all right, Patrick,
1:39
Speaker 1: Let's get right to the questions. First one is from
1:43
Speaker 1: E Gawna. I put the Twitter names on here so
1:48
Speaker 1: I may screw these up. I know the Cardinals likely
1:51
Speaker 1: won't trade them within the division, but how have the
1:53
Speaker 1: Cubs missed out on Sunny Gray all these years? Seems
1:57
Speaker 1: like the perfect fit for Chicago. What do you think?
2:00
Speaker 1: I think, Patrick, I'll take the first half of this one.
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Speaker 2: I know you have some thoughts on the second half.
2:05
Speaker 2: Our colleague got the athletic Katie Wu does a great
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Speaker 2: job covering the Cardinals. Has reported that Sonny Gray does
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Speaker 2: not want to waive his no trade clause even as
2:16
Speaker 2: the Cardinals go through this rebuild, that he picked Saint
2:20
Speaker 2: Louis for several reasons close to home. He's I believe
2:24
Speaker 2: a Vanderbilt, Tennessee guy and wants to see it through
2:30
Speaker 2: whatever is happening at Push Stadium there. And this is
2:35
Speaker 2: a funny name. It kind of goes back to when
2:38
Speaker 2: the Cubs hired Derek Johnson, who's since gone on to
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Speaker 2: become a well regarded major league pitching coach, but he
2:44
Speaker 2: was a minor league, I believe coordinator with the Cubs.
2:48
Speaker 2: He's very close with Jed Theo and Jason McLeod and
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Speaker 2: I feel like there was so little going on at
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Speaker 2: the major league level. It became connecting the dots of oh, yeah,
2:58
Speaker 2: the Cubs are going to go after Sonny Gray, like
3:00
Speaker 2: they've got his you know, old pitching coach from Vanderbilt
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Speaker 2: already working there, but as it turns out, maybe not
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Speaker 2: the most perfect fit for Chicago.
3:12
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, like I don't want to label guy
3:15
Speaker 1: like can't handle the big city or you never know
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Speaker 1: what's going on inside a guy's head. But Sonny Gray
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Speaker 1: is unique. He's a you know, he likes his routine,
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Speaker 1: he likes the he likes specific things. He likes to
3:28
Speaker 1: go about things in his own way, right, And and
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Speaker 1: that's that's fine, that's a you know, it's led to
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Speaker 1: a really strong career. I think he'd be great for
3:37
Speaker 1: the Cubs. I'm not sure if he is the most
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Speaker 1: comfortable in big cities now. His worst season, and it's
3:45
Speaker 1: not really close, was in his full his first full
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Speaker 1: season with the Yankees, just a really bad season. It
3:53
Speaker 1: didn't seem comfortable. Immediately left for Cincinnati and turned back
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Speaker 1: into the pitcher. It maybe had his best season. It
4:01
Speaker 1: was almost immediate turnaround at the age of twenty nine. Uh.
4:06
Speaker 1: And you know, look at look at his career Oakland Yankees, right,
4:12
Speaker 1: and then Cincinnati, Minnesota, Saint Louis. Those are smaller markets.
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Speaker 1: It seems like he's more comfortable there. That's what he prefers. Uh.
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Speaker 1: If that's what he prefers, that, that's great. That's where
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Speaker 1: he'll thrive. He knows himself, he knows what he wants. Uh.
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Speaker 1: I think he'd be I agree with the ultimate point
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Speaker 1: of like, you know, he'd be a good fit for
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Speaker 1: the Cubs. I think he's a good leader. I think
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Speaker 1: he's a good pitcher. I just don't think he may
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Speaker 1: be a great fit for Chicago.
4:40
Speaker 2: Uh.
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Speaker 1: But ultimately the point you were making that Katie Wu
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Speaker 1: pointed out, it's it's moot like he's not coming here,
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Speaker 1: he's not getting he's first of all, he's not getting
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Speaker 1: traded to the Cubs. Saint Louis isn't doing that. Second
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Speaker 1: of all, it doesn't sound like he's getting traded or
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Speaker 1: wants to wave his no trade clause. I do think
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Speaker 1: there'd be a pretty strong market for him if if
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Speaker 1: that where to change, But it doesn't sound like that's
5:02
Speaker 1: the case, all right, Toad.
5:05
Speaker 2: If Cubs fan number two wants to know, what are
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Speaker 2: the organization's expectations for Pete crow Armstrong's bat heading into
5:14
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, Steamer has them just below a league.
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Speaker 1: Average hitter, all right, I think that's probably the expectation, right,
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Speaker 1: Like hovering around league average. Now, that's probably like pushing
5:31
Speaker 1: three wins, if not more. I want to say so
5:35
Speaker 1: his final two hundred and fifteen played appearances. I brought
5:38
Speaker 1: this up one hundred and twenty three weighted runs created
5:41
Speaker 1: plus that is with his defense. My guess would that
5:47
Speaker 1: be around a six war player Like that's that's pretty elite.
5:53
Speaker 1: That like you're you're on the periphery of MVP talk.
5:57
Speaker 1: If you're an elite center fielder with a one twenty
6:00
Speaker 1: way to run as great at plus. You start doing
6:03
Speaker 1: better than that and you're you're not just on the periphery.
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Speaker 1: I don't think their expectation is for him to do
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Speaker 1: what he did the final two plus months. I think
6:14
Speaker 1: that was a great sign that hey, this guy, this
6:18
Speaker 1: guy is figuring some things out. He's getting better. It's
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Speaker 1: not the remember the mess that he was for the
6:25
Speaker 1: first two and a half month. Offensively, like to the
6:28
Speaker 1: point where when I talked to him, talked about him
6:33
Speaker 1: to people in the ORG, it was like very obvious.
6:37
Speaker 1: It's like I'd say, I bring up the obvious point
6:39
Speaker 1: of like he's chasing too much? Oh yeah, you think so?
6:42
Speaker 1: Like it was like it was all very obvious, right.
6:45
Speaker 1: It wasn't like what's going on with Pete? For Armstrong,
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Speaker 1: how do we figure it out? He needed to stop
6:50
Speaker 1: chasing the breaking balls in at his feet were like
6:55
Speaker 1: causing him fits. And he did. He figured it out.
6:59
Speaker 1: He stopped chasing his much, he stops striking out as much.
7:01
Speaker 1: He started swinging at better pitches and hitting the ball harder.
7:06
Speaker 1: I actually think maybe that one twenty three way to
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Speaker 1: run scrade a plus was a little low, because I
7:11
Speaker 1: remember a lot of balls getting knocked down for him
7:14
Speaker 1: in at Wrigley. So you know, I expect that he's
7:18
Speaker 1: going to have a really strong season. What what is that?
7:23
Speaker 1: What does that end up being? Is that is that
7:27
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred way to runs crede a plus
7:30
Speaker 1: or one twenty or eighty. I think the expectation is
7:35
Speaker 1: around league average. That's what I think the Cubs realistically expect.
7:41
Speaker 1: What do they hope for? Obviously a lot more?
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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, well, so I think it will be fascinating
7:46
Speaker 2: to watch just how he comes into camp next year,
7:49
Speaker 2: Like he impressed everyone with how he found a routine
7:53
Speaker 2: and took to coaching and assimilated into the clubhouse. And
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Speaker 2: I'm I'm not saying that won't continue, but we've all
8:03
Speaker 2: seen it happen before, right the sophomore jinks or whatever
8:07
Speaker 2: you want to call it. It's a hard league. You
8:11
Speaker 2: get a little success, maybe get a little comfortable. Not
8:13
Speaker 2: saying that's going to happen to PCA, but it's certainly
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Speaker 2: something I think that has to be on everyone's radar,
8:19
Speaker 2: while also leaving open the possibility, as you say that
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Speaker 2: maybe he just has this awesome, off the chart seasons
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Speaker 2: and the Cubs get that like six War Player that
8:28
Speaker 2: they've been kind of pining for.
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9:32
Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, why aren't the Cubs in on Gary Crochet?
9:35
Speaker 1: Are they not interested? Did they not match up well?
9:38
Speaker 1: The Socks not deal with their crosstown rival. This is
9:41
Speaker 1: from J. Madden's glasses.
9:45
Speaker 2: I unless something dramatically has changed. I think we both heard,
9:50
Speaker 2: like around the trade deadline and kind of entering the
9:54
Speaker 2: off season, that the Cubs have like no sort of
10:00
Speaker 2: expectations that the White Sox would deal Crochet to the
10:05
Speaker 2: North Side. Is that.
10:08
Speaker 1: I don't think they rule out trades with the Cubs.
10:13
Speaker 1: I think an established potential ace type player like like
10:19
Speaker 1: we could see smaller trades, maybe a challenge trade of
10:21
Speaker 1: some sort, like prospect for prospect to fill gaps. I
10:26
Speaker 1: just don't see like an impact player like Garrett Crochet
10:30
Speaker 1: being sent to the Cubs from the White Sox, the
10:32
Speaker 1: type of guy that could push their rotation from you know,
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Speaker 1: good to great Like I think that's bad business. I've
10:40
Speaker 1: talked to plenty of people around the league that don't
10:43
Speaker 1: like that concept. It's like, take the best deal, who
10:46
Speaker 1: cares if you're if you believe in your evaluation skills
10:50
Speaker 1: in your front office, like just take the deal. But
10:52
Speaker 1: I don't think it's like a Chris Gets thing as
10:54
Speaker 1: much as it may be an ownership thing. So yeah,
11:00
Speaker 1: this is always we always run into this when talking
11:02
Speaker 1: about Cubs White Sox. I think the Cubs paid a
11:05
Speaker 1: premium to get Jose Kintana, right, this is just the
11:08
Speaker 1: reality of dealing with the White Sox when you're the Cubs.
11:13
Speaker 1: We heard rumblings about it. Our colleague Dan Hayes heard
11:17
Speaker 1: rumblings about it when the Twins in White Sox. We're
11:22
Speaker 1: talking trade, right, Like, I think there's in division and
11:25
Speaker 1: the White Sox are quirky like that. It's not rare.
11:28
Speaker 1: It happens, right, But but the White Sox I think
11:30
Speaker 1: are a little extreme with it. I don't think the
11:32
Speaker 1: Mets and Yankees have that same issue, not that they're
11:35
Speaker 1: making trades all the time or anything like that, but
11:38
Speaker 1: it's certainly it is an issue dealing within the city,
11:42
Speaker 1: and I don't think you want I don't think the
11:45
Speaker 1: White Sox wanted to deal a superstar. Potential superstar like
11:50
Speaker 1: Crochet who was looking like a cy young candidate before
11:53
Speaker 1: his innings kind of had to be ramped down. So
11:56
Speaker 1: I think it's as simple as that right, not that
11:59
Speaker 1: they aren't in not that they wouldn't be interested, you know.
12:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, our colleague get the athletic Will Salmon had a
12:05
Speaker 2: good sort of explainer on what the White Sox are
12:08
Speaker 2: looking for, and he covers the Mets and what the
12:12
Speaker 2: Socks want is kind of what the Cubs have in
12:14
Speaker 2: terms of position players.
12:16
Speaker 4: They do have.
12:17
Speaker 2: The White Sox, for all their faults, do have a
12:19
Speaker 2: nice pipeline of pitching, you know, assuming guys stay healthy
12:24
Speaker 2: and continue to send they need just every day types
12:28
Speaker 2: to just clean up their offense and their defense. The
12:32
Speaker 2: Cubs have that. They certainly be aware of what's going
12:37
Speaker 2: on because, as our buddy John Greenberg has explained, like
12:40
Speaker 2: Chris Getz and Jed Hoyer are friendly, they're neighbors. You know,
12:44
Speaker 2: they're very likely to run into each other on a
12:48
Speaker 2: regular basis, you know, whether it's kids stuff, Aaron's just
12:53
Speaker 2: about town stuff like that, Like they're he'll be in
12:58
Speaker 2: the know. But I all so think, as someone explained
13:01
Speaker 2: to me once, like it's also sometimes hard to do
13:03
Speaker 2: deals with people you are friendly with.
13:06
Speaker 1: And so.
13:09
Speaker 2: We'll see, I would not I would not be hoping
13:12
Speaker 2: for Garrett Crochet if you're a Cubs fan.
13:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they match up perfectly, They match up
13:19
Speaker 1: so well otherwise. Yeah, I mean the Cubs have some
13:23
Speaker 1: things that like make a lot of sense to move
13:26
Speaker 1: at this point in time that the White Sox would love,
13:28
Speaker 1: Like Kevin Olcontra, James Trianto's like so much. There's so
13:31
Speaker 1: like we could go on and on, like I think
13:33
Speaker 1: it would make sense if they were the Angels or
13:38
Speaker 1: you know, the Mariners or whatever instead of the White
13:40
Speaker 1: Sox would probably be hammering this and and it's just
13:44
Speaker 1: that's not the case. It's that's it's the reality of
13:48
Speaker 1: the situation. Uh Is that is that my my turn? No?
13:52
Speaker 1: Your turn? Go go ahead, Patrick, all.
13:54
Speaker 2: Right, we got Cubes fan one wants to know.
13:58
Speaker 1: That's a throwback to the old twitter, old Cubs Twitter.
14:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when the world's serious.
14:04
Speaker 2: Are the Cubs feeling any pressure from a business ticketing
14:07
Speaker 2: perspective heading into the off season.
14:10
Speaker 1: That's Patrick. Maybe you you can answer this one better
14:13
Speaker 1: than I. I mean, I think they're always feeling it.
14:16
Speaker 1: There was more to this question that I couldn't throw
14:20
Speaker 1: in because it went on too long, but he basically
14:23
Speaker 1: said he's got his friends getting emails about single game
14:26
Speaker 1: tickets and and like I think we've heard this through
14:30
Speaker 1: other fans, like they're getting more emails, getting contacted more
14:33
Speaker 1: about season tickets or or individual plans. So marketing's ramping
14:39
Speaker 1: those things up. Is that a sign to you that
14:41
Speaker 1: there's pressure on the that the business side is feeling pressure.
14:45
Speaker 1: I know you have you know some people there, maybe
14:48
Speaker 1: maybe you've heard some things.
14:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's that pressure is always there, but
14:55
Speaker 2: it's not to a point where the Cubs are suddenly
14:59
Speaker 2: going changed their model and like Tom Ricketts is going
15:03
Speaker 2: to be telling Jed go sign Juan Soto, like if
15:06
Speaker 2: that's what the questions getting at. I do think post
15:13
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, like not having that nineteen oh eight kind
15:21
Speaker 2: of just kind of lessened the I don't know, the
15:25
Speaker 2: overall experience, the kind of unifying spirit of that. I
15:31
Speaker 2: think someone once said to me, like the best and
15:34
Speaker 2: worst thing that could ever happen to the Cubs was
15:35
Speaker 2: winning the World Series, because it would just take away
15:39
Speaker 2: that that idea of this is the last great quest
15:43
Speaker 2: in North American professional sports. But at the same time,
15:51
Speaker 2: I think if you look across like I don't know
15:54
Speaker 2: the world, like audiences are kind of splintering, like it's
15:59
Speaker 2: you know, harder to kind of get people to capture
16:05
Speaker 2: people's attention, and look like any sort of slump is relative.
16:14
Speaker 2: When the Cubs drew almost three million fans for a
16:19
Speaker 2: team that was slightly over five hundred and not all
16:22
Speaker 2: that compelling in any way, and you see that their business,
16:30
Speaker 2: like the baseball team is almost ancillary at this point.
16:34
Speaker 2: You got Northwestern and Ohio State playing there the other day.
16:39
Speaker 2: I believe your LINI are coming in after Thanksgiving.
16:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got these.
16:48
Speaker 2: Concerts that I believe are just easy money makers for them,
16:55
Speaker 2: and so they'll continue to use Wrigley Field for all
16:59
Speaker 2: these different events to keep the business humming.
17:04
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't think they're short on money,
17:08
Speaker 1: but and I think that they push three million again, right,
17:13
Speaker 1: and attendance even with that team like they're not they're
17:16
Speaker 1: not struggling, but you yeah, I think they want to
17:19
Speaker 1: break three million, right. That's when you know things are
17:21
Speaker 1: going well. When the Cubs are breaking three million. I'm
17:24
Speaker 1: not sure I should do more research on that. As
17:28
Speaker 1: far as post pandemic attendance numbers and if everything's back
17:33
Speaker 1: fully to normal across the game, or if if if
17:36
Speaker 1: there's just a natural depression there and a small percentage
17:41
Speaker 1: of people still are hesitating to show up. I don't
17:43
Speaker 1: think that's the case two point seven or eight million.
17:46
Speaker 2: I think it was two point nine.
17:48
Speaker 1: And I mean we haven't even done.
17:49
Speaker 2: I mean we haven't even gotten into, you know, Marquee
17:53
Speaker 2: in the future of like regional sports networks, which are
17:58
Speaker 2: right disappearing, Like that's a whole nother thing where I
18:02
Speaker 2: think the Cubs are in better position than most teams,
18:05
Speaker 2: But Marquee has not really reached their wildest hopes and
18:11
Speaker 2: dreams when that from when that was launched. So you know,
18:16
Speaker 2: it's a really kind of complicated, layered organization that clearly
18:24
Speaker 2: you know, has a lot of stuff that to figure out.
18:27
Speaker 2: And I think that's part of why you look at
18:31
Speaker 2: the team that they're putting together, like ownership wants that
18:35
Speaker 2: team that's just like in the hunt every year more
18:38
Speaker 2: than like a team going all in for one or
18:42
Speaker 2: two seasons to try to win the World Series. I
18:44
Speaker 2: think from their business perspective, the best way to continue
18:49
Speaker 2: growing the business is to just be in.
18:52
Speaker 1: It, right And one way they can be in it
18:58
Speaker 1: is this guy right here could be a big part
19:01
Speaker 1: of that. Keep on hearing about Moys's by a sterius
19:03
Speaker 1: being offensively ready but not defensively. Is comparing him to
19:07
Speaker 1: Kyle Schwarber as a prospect reasonable? That's from Brian Deal.
19:12
Speaker 1: What do you think, Patrick?
19:13
Speaker 2: I think it's not totally off base in terms of
19:20
Speaker 2: at this point, the Cubs do not expect Moises to
19:23
Speaker 2: be in everyday catcher. We've talked about this hope of
19:27
Speaker 2: maybe he could be a third catcher DH. I don't
19:32
Speaker 2: know if they'd even consider first base or the outfield
19:35
Speaker 2: at this point, but if he could do some of
19:38
Speaker 2: those things and maybe pair up with a pitcher whatever,
19:41
Speaker 2: that could be really valuable. I think the way they
19:44
Speaker 2: talk about him is similar to Schwarbro of just like, dude,
19:47
Speaker 2: this guy's gonna rake. I think that's That's kind of
19:51
Speaker 2: my main takeaway.
19:52
Speaker 1: What do you think? Right? I talked to a scout
19:55
Speaker 1: about this recently just to get some better idea about
20:00
Speaker 1: what type of offensive profile he projects to be, and
20:06
Speaker 1: what I came away from that conversation was feeling like
20:09
Speaker 1: this is more batting average than Schwarber, not the what
20:14
Speaker 1: you'd say, like on a twenty eighty scale, Schwarber's at
20:17
Speaker 1: like seventy power. This is probably like, this is above
20:20
Speaker 1: average power still, especially as he grew like continues to
20:23
Speaker 1: learn to like what to swing at. And when there
20:27
Speaker 1: was I there was a slight uptick in strikeouts. So
20:31
Speaker 1: I asked the scout, can you dig into your system?
20:34
Speaker 1: Tell me what? Are there any alarm belts going off
20:37
Speaker 1: when you look at that. Oh, he's facing more advanced pitching.
20:39
Speaker 1: And this is why it's happening. When he gets to
20:41
Speaker 1: the majors, it's gonna spike even more. And when I
20:43
Speaker 1: say there was a slight spike, I'm saying this guy
20:45
Speaker 1: struck out at like a fourteen thirteen percent rate for
20:48
Speaker 1: most of his career and then went up to twenty
20:50
Speaker 1: something percent twenty one percent at triple A. So I mean,
20:54
Speaker 1: that's still really good. If he strikes out at twenty
20:56
Speaker 1: one percent rate at the major league level, that's great.
20:58
Speaker 1: And it was a smaller sample size, of course, is
21:01
Speaker 1: triple A numbers. He said what was happening was he
21:03
Speaker 1: was chasing more against quality lefties. He's like, that's a wash.
21:07
Speaker 1: He's like that's normal. He's like, he's like, you you can't.
21:11
Speaker 1: That'd be nitpicking, and this is a scout for another team.
21:14
Speaker 1: So he's like, he's like this, He's like, this is
21:17
Speaker 1: not something you should overreact to. Really quality offensive talent. Yeah,
21:23
Speaker 1: if I'm comparing him to Schwarber, it's that it's significantly
21:27
Speaker 1: offense over defense. But I don't think they're exactly the
21:31
Speaker 1: same when it comes I don't don't expect like, you know,
21:34
Speaker 1: forty fifty home run seasons here, but high batting average,
21:40
Speaker 1: quality at bats power when when he learns to really hit,
21:46
Speaker 1: like really what to swing at? You know, I just think,
21:51
Speaker 1: like this guy has you know, there's there's potential special
21:55
Speaker 1: offensive upside, and I think the Cubs are excited about him.
22:00
Speaker 1: There was a question about untouchable prospects that I didn't include.
22:06
Speaker 1: I thought we would be pushing time, But I can
22:09
Speaker 1: quickly say that I don't think he's untouchable, and I
22:11
Speaker 1: don't think there's any untouchable prospect, but he'd probably be
22:15
Speaker 1: soon after, like in the list that I would include
22:17
Speaker 1: with like Matt Shaw and maybe Kate Horton of like
22:22
Speaker 1: they don't want to move these guys, and probably cam
22:24
Speaker 1: Smith right because they just drafted him, and I think
22:26
Speaker 1: he probably has just what I saw from two and
22:29
Speaker 1: a half months and talking to scouts like, oh, maybe
22:31
Speaker 1: this is their best prospect a year from now, but
22:35
Speaker 1: that's that's a year from now. Let's we don't need
22:37
Speaker 1: to dive into that. I'm just saying, if I'm looking
22:39
Speaker 1: at the prospects, those are the guys that I there's
22:43
Speaker 1: so many of them that maybe I miss someone, but
22:45
Speaker 1: I think that's right. Matt Shaw, Biasteros and Kate Horton
22:48
Speaker 1: would be the ones that it's like, you'd have to
22:51
Speaker 1: be including a superstar or something, have to be an
22:54
Speaker 1: insane trade that that's not really on our radar right now.
22:59
Speaker 2: All right, Oh this is perfect for you. From chef
23:03
Speaker 2: Kevin Penner. What happened to the Cubs air quotes, pitching infrastructure,
23:08
Speaker 2: and pitch lab. Weren't they about to become a juggernaut
23:10
Speaker 2: in pitching development a few years ago?
23:13
Speaker 4: Uh?
23:14
Speaker 1: And so okay, I I think it's a fair question,
23:18
Speaker 1: like in the sense that like they're not winning enough. Okay,
23:23
Speaker 1: I think that's the bigger problem. When you're not winning enough,
23:26
Speaker 1: you're going to go back to like I was told this,
23:28
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna complain about this. I'm angry about it. Listen,
23:31
Speaker 1: they're light years ahead of where they were a decade ago,
23:34
Speaker 1: just light years there was like I've written so much
23:37
Speaker 1: about the good and the bad of their pitching development
23:39
Speaker 1: over the past decade, and it was bad. They weren't
23:42
Speaker 1: developing anyone. Like the names are like, you know, Rob's
23:45
Speaker 1: disus me, who's back? James Norwood, like these are the
23:50
Speaker 1: guys that were coming up and getting Michael Rucker like
23:54
Speaker 1: not like yeah, guys that get a cup of coffee
23:57
Speaker 1: or you know, maybe develop into decent relievers, but nothing impactful.
24:02
Speaker 1: Justin Steele is home grown, and he made real changes
24:05
Speaker 1: underneath you know, this pitching infrastructure that was spearheaded by
24:10
Speaker 1: Craig Breslow and is you know, continuing under Jason Kansler
24:15
Speaker 1: is now in charge of player development. Right. They just
24:18
Speaker 1: made a big hire that everyone on the internet is
24:20
Speaker 1: freaking out about Tyler Zombro. We'll have to dig into
24:24
Speaker 1: that and maybe maybe get some information on him and
24:27
Speaker 1: how he's impacting player development. But I think he's impacting
24:31
Speaker 1: pitching all over the place. Tommy Hatteby gets a lot
24:33
Speaker 1: of credit in baseball circles and from pitchers for the
24:37
Speaker 1: impact that he creates. I would point to this, Okay,
24:42
Speaker 1: I think you have Justin Steele. You have guys like
24:46
Speaker 1: Hobby or a Sad. You have Jordan Wicks, Ben Brown,
24:51
Speaker 1: Hayden Wisnesky. All got hurt last year right or were
24:54
Speaker 1: ineffective in certain ways. Adbert al Zalai homegrown but got
24:59
Speaker 1: hurt last year, Porter Hodge home grown late round draft pick.
25:05
Speaker 1: They've used some of these pitchers to make trades Jackson, Ferris,
25:09
Speaker 1: Ty Johnson to get Isach Paradis, who apparently is impactful,
25:14
Speaker 1: like as far as a prospect wise, you know, value wise,
25:18
Speaker 1: and they drafted him late. So I think there's something
25:21
Speaker 1: to be said, like they've made real leaps. But remember this,
25:25
Speaker 1: who are the ones that stand out around the league
25:27
Speaker 1: LA Tampa Bay. How often are those guys injured? How
25:31
Speaker 1: often do they do we hear about picturing injuries. So
25:34
Speaker 1: these things go hand in hand. There's risk here. I
25:36
Speaker 1: don't know if Ben Brown is going to come back,
25:39
Speaker 1: be healthy and be impactful, but he certainly looked very
25:42
Speaker 1: impactful and the Cubs made real changes with him. He
25:45
Speaker 1: was developed by the Phillies, he came here, made some
25:48
Speaker 1: real changes and is now you know, has the potential
25:51
Speaker 1: to be an impactful either start or reliever. They've they've
25:55
Speaker 1: improved their pitching significantly, just like I don't think it's
26:00
Speaker 1: a little bit their pitching development has changed significantly. It's
26:04
Speaker 1: not perfect. I don't know if there is an organization
26:09
Speaker 1: that's perfect. Even Cleveland didn't develop a ton of starters
26:11
Speaker 1: this season. But I think I think it's hard to
26:16
Speaker 1: deny that they've made real steps. I think it's perfectly
26:20
Speaker 1: fine for people to be upset about things just because
26:23
Speaker 1: the team isn't winning enough, and I think that leads
26:25
Speaker 1: to this. I think that's ultimately what happens when when
26:29
Speaker 1: there's losing, when there's not enough winning, it leads to
26:33
Speaker 1: questions like this. And I'm not I'm not getting on
26:35
Speaker 1: chef Kevin Penner here. I just think it's it's a
26:38
Speaker 1: perfectly fair question. I just think like it's important to
26:41
Speaker 1: keep perspective here, and injuries are part of it all.
26:46
Speaker 1: I mean, and I didn't even mention Kate Horten, who
26:48
Speaker 1: they drafted. They identified and they've helped, you know, kind
26:51
Speaker 1: of clean some things up. I think we're going to
26:54
Speaker 1: be hearing about more things like that. I do think
26:56
Speaker 1: they're they're on the right path and they have been,
26:59
Speaker 1: and we're seeing results. It's just completely different than what
27:04
Speaker 1: we covered five, six, seven years ago.
27:07
Speaker 2: One more quick thing beyond seeing those pitchers get healthy
27:11
Speaker 2: and take the next steps in their careers, I'm also
27:13
Speaker 2: curious to see what sort of impact Craig Council has
27:17
Speaker 2: in this space, particularly after how well the Brewers have performed,
27:25
Speaker 2: how they've taken guys who didn't really stick with the
27:27
Speaker 2: Cubs and all of a sudden they're beating the Cubs.
27:30
Speaker 2: Things like that, How the relievers they target and acquire
27:35
Speaker 2: this offseason, how those young pitchers are deployed next season
27:38
Speaker 2: as out getters. I think Councils fingerprints will be all
27:44
Speaker 2: over this.
27:47
Speaker 1: I completely agree. I'm curious to see how the bullpen
27:51
Speaker 1: looks in April and May, right, or what bullpen moves
27:54
Speaker 1: are made over the next couple of months, and then
27:56
Speaker 1: how it looks when the season starts, Like do we
27:58
Speaker 1: see significant different? Is in a positive way? All right? Patrick?
28:04
Speaker 1: That wraps it up for us our first YouTube video podcast.
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Speaker 1: You guys get to stare at our beautiful faces. I
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Speaker 1: had a friend I was at a friends giving this
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Speaker 1: past weekend and a friend was asking how the podcast
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Speaker 1: was going, and I told him we're starting video and
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Speaker 1: he's like, who watches that? And I was like, sick,
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Speaker 1: sick Cubs fans, man Lee, and you guys are the
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Speaker 1: We're Patrick and I are covering the Cubs all winter
28:50
Speaker 1: long and beyond and yeah, all that good stuff. Sorry,
28:55
Speaker 1: my computer's acting wonky, so I lost track of what
28:58
Speaker 1: I was saying. Thanks ever Hope for listening. We appreciate it.
29:01
Speaker 1: Take care,