Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Martha Zoller - Does Georgia Reveal The Future Of Post-Trump Republican Politics?

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Interview Only w/ Martha Zoller - Does Georgia Reveal The Future Of Post-Trump Republican Politics? · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: rates may vary. Well, my guest today is somebody who's
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  Speaker 1: coming on. We're going to talk a lot about a
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: topic that I'm very fascinated with. There's a couple of
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: states that within the debate in where's the Republican Party ahead,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: and particularly where's a Republican party headed post Donald Trump?
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: There are two state Republican parties that I'm most fascinated
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: to watch one is out west in Utah, and for
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: a variety of reasons, and Utah has been a fascinating
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: state to watch as sort of the conservative movement has
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: been realigning in which way we've seen It's not just
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Mitt Romney, but we've seen. You know, you've got one
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  Speaker 1: senator in John Curtis in one direction of the party,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Mike Lee going in another direction. But the other state
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  Speaker 1: that is seen in where I think you can't say
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: that the Republican Party is just totally trumpified as Georgia. Well,
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  Speaker 1: my guess there's somebody who works both in Georgia Republican politics,
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  Speaker 1: talks Republican politics, knows the media landscape. Well. Her name's
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  Speaker 1: Martha Zaler. Those of you down in Georgia probably very
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: familiar with her, whether it's listening to her podcast or
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: listening to her or her talk show in and around
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  Speaker 1: the Gainesville, Georgia area. And I'm looking forward to talking
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: a little Georgia politics. As I was telling my listeners
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: last week, Martha, I thought it was interesting that the
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: first state to act on a gas tax holiday was
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Georgia and Governor Brian Kemp, and I thought well, that'll
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: be an interesting talking point in a hypothetical campaign, and
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: say the state of New Hampshire. And so anyway, let's
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  Speaker 1: just say it's just a little taste of where I
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  Speaker 1: hope our conversation goes. Martha, welcome to the podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's great to be with you. Check, it's nice to
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: e meet you or whatever. Zoo.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, I mean I am, like I said, I
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: call myself a political anthropologist these days, desperately studying the
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: crazy tribes of American politics, right, And we know, and
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: it's pretty clear to me that both parties are really coalitions, right,
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  Speaker 1: there's sort of collections of there is a lot more
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  Speaker 1: diversity underneath the umbrellas, underneath that red umbrella and that
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  Speaker 1: blue umbre And I think sometimes both parties get defined
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  Speaker 1: by just one individual or one part of the party.
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  Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting is George has been sort
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  Speaker 1: of the one the one place where conservatives have not
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  Speaker 1: been punished for swimming in a different direction every now
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  Speaker 1: and that And I guess let me start there. What
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  Speaker 1: do you what do you make of the fact that
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  Speaker 1: the Georgia Republican Party and whether it's Marjorie Taylor Green,
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  Speaker 1: who's I think feels let down by the MAGA movement,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: or at least let down by Donald Trump. Or it's
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: a Brad Raffinsburger, right, who's in a totally another part
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  Speaker 1: of the party. I know what it looks like from
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  Speaker 1: the outside. What does it look like from your seat?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting you mentioned such of state Raffensberger, because
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  Speaker 2: you know, he went from the guy that no one
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: would have lunch with to winning very decidedly with not
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: only Republican votes but independence and Democrats too in his
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: re election in twenty twenty two and is now running
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: for governor. And so he's an interesting thing. And he
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  Speaker 2: did it by going to every lunch, every invitation, Democrat, Republican, Independent,
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  Speaker 2: and taking every question. I remember, right after the twenty
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: twenty election, Butch Miller and I Butch Miller was a
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: state senator. We had to go face the Republican Party
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  Speaker 2: for the first time in March of twenty one before
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  Speaker 2: the world shut down, I mean, while we were still
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: in that kind of weird place after COVID. And one
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: thing we did is we paid the bar tab because
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: it was out of winery, because we didn't want people
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  Speaker 2: to be mad. Because Butch and I laid out what
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  Speaker 2: happened with the Georgia election, what the good things were
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  Speaker 2: and what the bad things were. And it wasn't about corruption, okay,
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  Speaker 2: it was about something we had been saying since two
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  Speaker 2: thousand and six that we had a pretty big loophole
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  Speaker 2: in our rules around absentee ballots. Using a loophole is
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  Speaker 2: not breaking the law. Using a loophole is not corruption.
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  Speaker 2: It's just there was a pretty big loophole and how
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: absentee ballots could be done. And as Karen Handel, who
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  Speaker 2: was the Secretary of State when this law was passed, said,
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  Speaker 2: the Democrats figured out how to drive a mack truck
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  Speaker 2: through it, and they used the rule to their advantage.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what ultimately happened with the election. There's a
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  Speaker 2: lot of Republicans today to still disagree with me about that.
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  Speaker 2: As early as today on my show when I was
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  Speaker 2: talking to all the candidates for Secretary of State, there
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  Speaker 2: is one candidate that is looking forward and all the
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  Speaker 2: rest of the secretary of state candidates on the Republican
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  Speaker 2: side are looking backward. And I just don't think that's
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  Speaker 2: the answer for anything. Number One, But yeah, George has
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  Speaker 2: been very interesting and there are these different buckets, and
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  Speaker 2: I just wouldn't allow myself to be categorized. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I supported President Trump. I voted for him three times.
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  Speaker 2: I gave money in twenty twenty to his campaign. I
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  Speaker 2: was one of those people that got caught up in
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  Speaker 2: that wind red thing where it was supposed to be
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  Speaker 2: a one time donation and they tried to take it,
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  Speaker 2: you know, every month. And so I have been a
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: supportive person. Don't like everything that he does. I think
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  Speaker 2: he's the reason why we have two Democrat senators. He
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  Speaker 2: came to Georgia for that runoff and he told people
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  Speaker 2: you can vote, but your vote might not count, and
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  Speaker 2: four hundred thousand Republicans stayed home, you know, and it
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  Speaker 2: was heaviest in the two cities he went to. So
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  Speaker 2: I've had my own issues with President Trump related to that.
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  Speaker 2: I don't get invited to any of the parties. I
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  Speaker 2: don't get to do any of that stuff. But I
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  Speaker 2: have met him several times. And everybody in Georgia is
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  Speaker 2: not a Trump Republican. But there are more Republicans than Democrats,
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  Speaker 2: and if we get out to vote, we will still win.
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  Speaker 2: But we've had a tough run the last six statewide
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  Speaker 2: elections now a lot of more special elections to be fair,
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  Speaker 2: but you can't deny We've had six races that have
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  Speaker 2: gone Democrat in the last three years, and you know
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  Speaker 2: we can't continue to run the state the way we
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  Speaker 2: want to Republicans if we continue to lose races.
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  Speaker 1: How'd you handle David Purdue primary ing Brian Kemp. Uh?
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  Speaker 1: It was very difficult because I had because you were
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  Speaker 1: part of both both the administers, both for both of them, right.
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  Speaker 2: So I had already asked David if he was running.
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  Speaker 2: He said no, And so I had worked for Kemp
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  Speaker 2: in his first election, and so I committed to Brian Kemp.
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  Speaker 2: And so I got an invitation to go to dinner
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  Speaker 2: I want with Senator Purdue. I won't discuss what we
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  Speaker 2: talked about other than he was running, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: I said, I'm already committed, and so you know I can't.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not going to take that away. And
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  Speaker 2: you said you weren't going to run, and then I
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  Speaker 2: saw that that he was. He had made his mind up,
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  Speaker 2: and I said, don't talk about the election, talk about
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  Speaker 2: something like both of his parents were public school teachers
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  Speaker 2: fifty five percent of the budget Georgia is paid on.
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  Speaker 2: It is spent on education. You know, we have a
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  Speaker 2: lot of work to do on education, so I said.
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  Speaker 2: But he didn't listen to me. But I still got
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  Speaker 2: the first interview with him when he announced his race,
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  Speaker 2: and I just navigated being fair, you know, to both
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  Speaker 2: sides all the way throughout. But he was you know,
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  Speaker 2: it was an embarrassing loss. It was seventy one.
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  Speaker 1: Is he doing now? I mean, I have to tell you,
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna look. I interviewed him during his first run
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  Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen. It was right when I was just
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  Speaker 1: starting to meet the press and we did this fun
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: little bus tour of battleground states, and Georgia was one
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  Speaker 1: of them.
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  Speaker 2: I was working on that campaign.
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  Speaker 1: I remember interviewing both that was Michelle Nunn race I believe, right, yes, right,
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  Speaker 1: and David Perdue. And I'll tell you you know, and
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  Speaker 1: I say this, this is not meant to anything other
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  Speaker 1: than an easy descriptor for sort of the average viewer
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: and listener here, which is he struck me as a
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: met Romney Republican, a businessman, Republican, the chamber of whatever.
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  Speaker 1: And I say this, it's not to be disparaging. It's
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: not meant to be anything other than descriptive that this
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: is a pro business guy, this is a small government guy.
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  Speaker 1: And I just look at it. I don't want to
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: put words in your mouth that he's kind of lost
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  Speaker 1: his political identity in getting caught up in Trump world.
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  Speaker 1: And this is he's not alone. I watch a lot
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: of Republicans who had a set of a set of
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: things that they had been advocating for and been principled
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: about for decades. They get caught up in the Trump
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: sort of whatever you want to call it, right, the whirlpool,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, and you just the vortex, and they
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: sort of lose their own identity. Governor Kemp never did,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Senator did? How did Senator Purdue get caught up in
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: this so much?
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: You know? I think it's interesting because in this social
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: media world to live in where everything's under a microscope,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I would argue more than ever, I think the kind
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: of corruption that's going on now has been going on forever.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: We just didn't see it the way we see it now.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Look, that's an MR. I look at the Trump era
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: in this one way, in a very positive way, which
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: is it's been an MRI for me, meaning I have
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: learned a lot about people, good bad and otherwise, institutions
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: good bad or otherwise, about the problems in our what
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: I would call our small D democratic infrastructure that need fixing,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that have been exposed. You know, you pointed out one
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: in Georgia politics there about you know, how should absentee
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: battling work? Is this a loophole? You know? I think
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: the point is is that he's an MRI, and if
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: you're if you care about the country, then use it
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: for good. And that's been my choice. But it's been
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: an MRI for a lot of people.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Well, Centater Purdue was more of an establishment guy, but
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: he did get on the Trump train very early. He
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: liked Donald Trump, he liked the way he did things,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and he actually when Trump was thinking about running after
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: he won Purdue one in twenty fourteen, one of the
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: first meetings that Trump took was with Purdue and Trump
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Tower to talk about how he is a businessman. Won
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: and so they kind of hit it off in that area. Well,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: he's currently the ambassador to China, so he you know,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: he is serving there and he has been extremely loyal.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Sort of ironic, I don't mean it. I remember the
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: whole His relationship with China was such a huge part
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: of that first campaign if I remember it, and you
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: know I this is.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: My again, my personal opinion, and I'm always transparent. I
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: don't think that Donald Trump was loyal to him, okay,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: because he did not really help him as much in
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: his runoff. He did not help at all on the runoff.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Oh I think Look, I thought your analysis. The fact
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: is Democrats got the Senate majority because of Donald Trump. Yeah,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and it's becausey campaign. If he doesn't show up on
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: January fifth and campaign in Georgia, maybe it's one Senate
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: seat that goes, not both because.
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  Speaker 2: We forget and when we talk about the Georgia landscape,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I don't think that it's a done deal that a
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Democrat is going to win a statewide race this time
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: again for the Senate races. But I don't think it's
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: a done deal because uh, Senator ass Off only won
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: by fifty thousand votes. Brian Kemp only won by one
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: hundred thousand votes in his second election, So it's tight margins, okay.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And we have these four counties Fulton to cab Gwinnette
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: and Cobb that are Democrat counties okay, but they are
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: about a million and a half Republican votes. So in
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: those four counties there's about it's about two to one
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Democrat to Republican, so there's about a million and a
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: half for Publican votes.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Their vote counts just as much in a statewide.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Race, absolutely, and so our When you're dealing with margins
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: of one hundred thousand and fifty fifty thousand for the
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Democrats for the Senate, one hundred thousand for the Republicans
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: for governor, you have a guy like say Mike Thurman,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: who is a moderate Democrat who's running in this race.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: He's the only moderate Democrat running in the race, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: who knows if he's got a chance, but he's well
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: liked in those four counties because he served as Dacab
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: County CEO. He was the superintendent of Dedacab County Schools.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: And if he you're going to laugh at this, but
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: it's true, if he can peel off one hundred or
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: two hundred thousand squishy Republican women who were the people
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I have to deal with in my work all the
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: time because they voted for Clinton in ninety six, they
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: voted for I've forgotten Gore in two thousand they voted
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: for Bush, and four they voted for Obama, and eight
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: they voted for Trump in sixteen, not in twenty but
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: then in twenty four. If you can peel off one
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: hundred or two hundred thousand on either side, if a
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Republican can do it or a Democrat can do it,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: there's the one who wins. Interesting, Well, you go, Republican women,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: you can quote me on that.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: What makes somebody what do you count as a squish?
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: They don't like the style of most negative campaig and
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: obviously negative can.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: It's more style than substance, more.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Style than substance. They're not as much one issue people anymore.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: I mean it used to be was we could get
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: them back on the right to life issue. That's not
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: as much of an issue that they want to talk
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: about anymore.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Actually, let me put a let's put it. Let me
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: let me. I want to get more into this, but
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you a very specific question on abortion,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: because I've been curious that with rogue gone as a
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: rallying cry, has that actually made courting Republican Republicans on
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: that issue harder because they think the issue is solved well, especially.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: In Georgia, it has because we've got Heartbeat Bill, and uh,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: you know, our biggest my as a person who's been
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: involved in the movement, I served as the executive director
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: of the Georgia Life Alliance. I helped start the Georgia
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Life Alliance, which is a more I don't want to
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: use the term moderate, but it was a more reasonable
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: right to life group which understood that we live in
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: a world where this happened and we want to make
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: it and we were more like Clinton, I don't want
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: to say that, but more legal and rare as well.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: That's the Clinton that there isn't a Democrat that says
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: that anymore. But it was his mantra was safe, legal,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: safe and rare or something like that, you know.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And so for me, my biggest issue related to the
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: life issue now is that right now most abortions are
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: done through the clinic, the chemical abortion over the you know,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: the the abortion hill that they like to call it.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: And the problem with that is it has a seven
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: percent complication rate. It has a seven percent complication rate,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: which today the FDA would never approve something like that,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: not because of Trump, but because most anything over four
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: percent complication rate, And what I'm trying to get accomplished,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: not just in Georgia but across the country is that
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: you need to see a doctor. You shouldn't just take it,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: not do it. In twenty twenty four, there were a
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: couple of women who died that were used in ads,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: you know, because they said it was because of the
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: heartbeat Bill. It wasn't that, it was that they didn't
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: go to a doctor. And all you need to know
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: about that that's the safer way to do things, is
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: that planned parenthood requires you to come back the next
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: day to be sure everything's okay. And so for me,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: it's a health a women's health issue. And I tell
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: you I've had such a hard time getting Democrat women.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: They'll agree with me in the meetings, but then when
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: we have to go out and talk about legislation because
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I help with things like that, can't get them to
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: come along. But I feel encouraged because after my heart attack,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: which was the reason why we didn't get together the
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: last time I got was honored by a group of
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: women at the Georgia Legislature last week, mainly for surviving,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: but also for using my platform to talk about women's
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: heart health. And it was democratic women that did that initiative.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: So that makes me feel good because I'm a conservative.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not apologetic about it. I think our ideas are better,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: but I've always worked with everybody.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Well. This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to
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  Speaker 1: rethink what's in my closet. I'm trying to keep fewer things,
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  Speaker 1: wear all the time. Trust me, I am constantly on this.
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• 19:45
  Speaker 1: So let's go back to this descriptor of squish and
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: substance versus style, because I I you know, let me
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: let me ask it a different way. What do you
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: think we're polarized as a country, right, We're pretty evenly divided.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Georgia is as good of an example of this as anything, Right,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: this is a I'm with you. I think that it's
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: slightly right leaning. Right, it's light like I consider Georgia
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: light pink. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it is deep purple. Okay,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: so we'll we'll find out for sure over the we'll
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: know for sure after Trump leaves. Right, it could be
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: that this is a Trump hangover type of thing, But
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: my instinct has been that it's that I'm surprised at
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: our soft strength. Let me put it that way so far,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and we'll find out when there's a there's a nominee.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: But in this larger question, right, America is divided. If
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Alexis Detokfeld came back to life right and was trying
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: to study America again and write about democracy in America,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: what would you tell him that we're divided about? What
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: is this big issue? In the nineteenth century, we knew
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: what we were divided about. There was a specific thing
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: this country was divided about. It is hard for me
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: to say there's this one thing we're divided about. But
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: it's almost more of a feeling. Right, we know it,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: and someone will say, well, it's culture, okay, but what
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: is what would you how would you describe the divide
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: in America today and what animates well.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: And I would also note that Georgia is a we
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: don't register by party, right, and so.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: There I think personally, I think party registration. I think
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: it's great. But if you us as a voter, can
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: just register and pick the primary we want to participate in.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: And independence are growing in Georgia, or people that call
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: themselves independence are growing in Georgia. I think independents are
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: actually just disaffective Republicans.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: But that's just me, But I think they're disaffected. I
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: think some of them are disaffected Democrats. I think I
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: think the independent. I can tell you what I feel
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: as an independent, which is I don't feel comfortable. Either
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: party doesn't really represent everything I believe in. But I'm
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: not ready to throw them both out either.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm going to answer your question, but I want
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: to tell you about someone. There's a guy named Justin
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Gibbon that was a Democratic operative. He became a pastor
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: and he's I wouldn't say he's left the Democratic Party,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: but he's more in that. I'm uncomfortable because he leads
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: a group of urban Christian blaques and who do things
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: and they call it the and campaign instead of saying,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: but you say and and and he said, we agree
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: with Republicans about the social issues, the cultural issues, but
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: we don't like the way they talk about them, and
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: we disagree with how the Democratic Party looks at family.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And I think I think the big issue is the
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: difference between I don't I'm going to sound so eighties
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: when I say family values, but it's about traditional family
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: values versus this far left progressive like you see at
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: these protests. I mean I saw a woman on one
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: of the protests and no King's processes. I've been protested
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: for everything since the nineteen sixties, and I'm thinking to myself,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: you know, I know these women. I used to I'm
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: going to get in trouble for this. I used to say,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: the meanest people on the face of the earth are
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: old white Democrat women that I never got yelled at
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: by Republican women like I have by Democrat women. And
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I just think that what separates us are these are
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: not so much abortion or same sex marriage or whatever
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: the issues were, but it is more of a cultural family,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: you know, because I think there's a lot of people
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: out there, a lot of millennials especially, that have put
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: off having families that have put off all these things.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: They thought they were supposed to work and do this
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: and that and the other thing, and now they're sitting
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: there with either no children or one child, and they
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: feel like life has passed them by. And I know,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: in my own family, my youngest daughter, you know, and
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I agree with her about this, is that they've waited
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: and hopefully they will have children. And she's very liberal,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: you know. I mean, I raised kids to think for themselves,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: and I think that what happens is is that that
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: we have been telling people things they knew were not
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: true about the world, and media was a part of it,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: and this idea that happened, and now a lot of
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: people are second guessing. But I will say that she's
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: right that she doesn't have it as easy as I
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: had it. It is harder for her to buy a house.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: These affordable ability issues are real things, and neither party
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: is offering any solutions for it. They're just fighting. I mean,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: this DHS thing is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I wrote a column this week on my substack about
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: we need to go back to pre gram Redman, because
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: before that, you didn't have shutdowns. The understanding was you're
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: going to be grown ups because money is coming into
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: the federal government every day check you can continue to
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: pay people.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Well it is look, I went, it's a weapon. Well
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: it goes back to is lovely bipartisan legal opinions. One
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: was in Carter's Justice Department and one was in Reagan's
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Justice department. Within essentially an eighteen month period, two different
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: partisan justice departments made the same analysis about that once
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: there's a funding dispute in Congress, then government has to
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: cease spending money. It's ridiculous, it's absurd, and it is
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: your only Actually, you know, I have a friend of
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: mine who's been in a government contractor basically he's in
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: this one of those public private areas in the world
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: of nukes, Okay, and it's about all he can tell me.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: But the point is is that it's this public private
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: and he goes the amount of times they've literally had
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: to stop in the middle of a research product because
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: of a continuing resolution, Like if people understood, he gets.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: He harps on this with me all the time. He goes,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I wish you guys could meaning us in the media,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: but do a better job of explaining how even continuing resolutions. Quote,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: keeping the lights on actually prevent us from doing certain
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: research spending. Sometimes it takes a little extra money to
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: figure out something or to be able to do something extra.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: We are sometimes just literally waiting in place while we
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: fill out another form or wait for something that we
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: know we're going to get in the next budget. But
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: in the meantime, we can't use spend that money until
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: they officially pass it and he goes. We're literally paying
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: people to do nothing, and it is just ridiculous the
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: budgeting process in America that has put us in this,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: and it incentivizes both parties to weaponize the budget process.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: And look, I mean, let's look at something that's a
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: little more you know, everyday kind of business other than news. Agriculture. Okay,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I have people that are friends of mine in the
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: agriculture world where they do things like they work on
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: vaccines on chickens and they do other things. Well, if
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: you're dealing with animals, you can't have two months at
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: a time continuing resolutions because the animals have to be fed,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. These things, so they can't
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: start stuff because they're afraid they can't finish it. And
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: it's just very inefficient. But you asked me something about Asoff,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: and I just wanted to know if you wanted to
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: talk a little bit about him.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I well, I let mean, well, I'm going
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: to pick up on something you said you were talking about.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: We were talking about what the divide is and you
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: thought it was cultural and unfamily and that, and you
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: did something and I totally respect it. But at the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: same time, I feel like it's part of I think
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: that each party is viewed as a caricature by folks
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: that are in the other party, And like, I sit
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: here and I'm like, and sometimes I look at both
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: parties as caricatures, and I try really hard not to
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that we're all three dimensional figures. And I kind of
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: think that's part of the problem. Meaning you asked, why
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: do you feel like some won't cross the aisle to
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: help on certain things that you're working on, And I
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: think the problem is there's this, and the two parties
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: do this a lot. Media can do it too. Categorizing
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: creates this guilt by association that the minute you work
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: with the other side, well oh yeah, right, you immediately
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: are seen as a traitor or a turncoat.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Was famously said, he said, I don't like c SPAN
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: because every time I walk across the aisle to work
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: with somebody, somebody's going to use it in an ad
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: against me.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, that is insanity that we have done this,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: because none of us would want to be treated that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: way individually, right, We all actually have. We're all usually
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: pretty proud of the relationships that we have in our
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: personal lives because they are diverse, they're unique. We all have,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you know, the family members that we all just we
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: don't agree with, and all these other things. And yet
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: we then hold the political parties and members of it
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: to a standard that does create this caricature element to
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: it that I think almost it's what it does, is
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: what I think it does, is it turns off the volume,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: meaning people will just stop listening and tell me.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: What you think about this, because this goes back to
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: historical references and things like that. You know, there was
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: all this hooplaw about members of Congress not being in
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: their districts more, and so the work schedules changed dramatically
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: in the last way twenty five years.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Maybe, oh, it's going to disaster personally, I'd take it up.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because what happens is when you when you wear
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: a badge of honor of living in your office. Okay,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: and you didn't bring your family up and they did it.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And granted I used to joke about with Senator Nune,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: we were great friends. I said, your kids didn't grow
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: up in Georgia, they grew up in Washington, d C.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: And he would laugh about it. But what happened with
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: that is you made relationships with all different kinds of people.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: And now we don't do that because they come in
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: on Tuesday or maybe Monday night and they go back whenever.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: And I think they should work twenty four to seven
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: if they're not going to fund the government, and they
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be paid for it. But I just think that
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: it didn't make those relationships that you normally have, you know.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: And no, I mean it was done out of campaign, like, hey,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: you better be in your district. And then if like
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: if you spend too much time in Washington, it was
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: somehow a negative and I'm like, well, wait a minute.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: You're the elected member of Congress. That's your job is
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: to spend time in Washington. And the fact that we
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: turned it into if you spend too much time in Washington. Basically,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: if you spend too much time trying to be good
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: at your job, we're going to hold that against you
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: in a political app and we did. They created the schedule.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: They work three days a week, right. They fly in
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: now Tuesday more. It used to be they came in
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: a Monday. Now they've pushed it, especially if you're on
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: the East coast. You grab that six am flight. They
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: get there for the Tuesday hearing that they have to
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: do and the caucus lunch whatever it is, and then
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: the smell of jet fumes by two. I mean, you know,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: they basically work Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. It's really crazy. And you know, I
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: don't know if you knew. I ran for Congress in
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: twenty twelve and I.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Got which district in the ninth.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: District of Georgia, and I got through the primary, but
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: I lost in the runoff to Doug Collins, who's now
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: the Vasa. And you know, for me, you know, it's
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: not good for a media person to run for office
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: because there was ten thousand hours of me talking about
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: issues and.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: This is like reason number seven thousand why I won't
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: run for office. But I've had plenty of people. I'm like,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: why would I No matter which party I picked, you
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: could find thirty things that would make me a problem
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: within that party, and you can pick either one of them.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's no you know, to me, I made
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: a choice. This is the choice I make, and this
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: is how I want to contribute.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: So yeah, but it was funny because I remember saying
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: the thing I said, yeah, and some poor person had
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: to sit down and find the two and a half
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: minutes that they were going to use, and somebody from
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: the back of room goes, that was a lot more
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: than that, Martha. So and you know, when you do
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: what we do, sometimes you're asking questions just to get answers,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: and you're not necessarily saying that you believe in whatever
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: it's Devil's advocated.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: It's all about getting I'm trying. I always said this,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: let meet the press. I wanted to know two things,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: actual information and then the why yes and the questions.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Most of the questions I asked were about trying to
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: answer the question of why, well, why did you choose
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: to do this? Why do you believe this? What you know?
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: That's because ultimately, if you choose to watch to me,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: if you choose to watch a Sunday show or if
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: you choose to listen to a political talk show, You're
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: not interested in the what you already know, the what. Right,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: You're you're trying to get a why, because you're it's
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: more than just the information. You're looking to understand, well,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: how did we get to this position. You're trying to
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: get more information, more context. You're not there just for
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the what. So you're already a pretty well informed person.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: So you're then if they're coming to you, your job
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: or my job is to add more context to the situation.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. And sometimes you say things just
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: to you know, get a reaction and to see what
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: people are going to say. And it's and look, I'm
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: I long for the time where people work together better.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: We even you know, I'm in a plus twenty six district, Okay,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: so it's it's not an area that's going to likely
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: have a Democrat representative. But because the Democrats in Georgia
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: see blood in the water, because we've lost several races
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: along the way, they I got to give them credit.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: They got we got a contested Democrat primary in our district, okay,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: which they have no chance. They have no chance, but
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: they couldn't get a few more Democrats out for the
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: state wide races, you know, if there's a good Democrat
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: in the race.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: So, by the way, you know who was the godfather
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: of that strategy, Howard No, No, No goes back further,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: there was this young conservative activists from Georgia named Newt Gingridg. Oh. Yeah,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: and you know, I can't tell you how many members
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: of Congress I know over the years who told me
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: that they first learned how to run from office by
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: listening to Newt gingridg perceptives. Yeah, from the old GOPA era.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: But the point was, I remember he was a big
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: advaty of this basically filled the tree. If you have
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: a candidate in every race locally, up and down the ballot, well,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have that many more people
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: going out to ask for Republicans, having somebody to go
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: vote for a Republican or in this case, and I've
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: always you know, there's a pretty good correlation if you
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: study this via data, where the party that has the
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: fewest empty ballot slots is usually the party that's going
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: to win that cycle.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and for fifteen years there were no Democrats on
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: the other side running. Okay, And you know it's funny
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: because John Ausoff and I have a pretty decent relationship.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I got him to come on my show. He didn't
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: want to come on my show because I worked for
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: David Purdue, and I completely understand that. But I convinced
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: him by saying, you know what, you might you're not
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: just helping yourself, but for the first time in twenty years,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Democrats are running up and down the ballot in our area.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: If you come on my show, you can help them too.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: And he goes, wow, you're really good. And you know,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: but I did have to apologize for calling him a
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: thirty three year old intern, because I did do that.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: But you know, don't you think his youth was an
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: asset At the end of the day.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: It was, And I tell you one, he is much
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: better looking in person. And when he came to the studio,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: and you know, the salespeople got to see him, and
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: all the people got to see him, and he looks
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: really great in a suit. Okay, I'll admit that, even
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: though you're not. I mean, I'm old enough to be
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: his mother, so I can say those things. And when
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: he left all the women were like, Oh, who was that?
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Who was that? It's kind of like the way Tom
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Graves was to mention a Republican too. Tom was a
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: really good looking guy and still is, of course, and
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: the same kind of thing happened. He came in, he
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: had this charisma and after he left, all the girls
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: were like, who is that?
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Who was that?
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: And you know, John is I think John has a
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: good chance my thing. And I said this to him,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I said, look, I want you to lose because I'm
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: a Republican. I said that you've forgotten who you are.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Your phone unraising letters sound like you're a far left progressive,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: but yet your press release is say all these things
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: you're doing on a bipartisan basis. You know, I said,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: I'll give you a piece of advice that I usually
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: charge people for, and it's that don't forget that nobody's
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: going to remember the name of your consultant. You know,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: they only know your name, and so so if you
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: if you're doing this kind of crazy fundraising emails and
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know how many people actually see those, but
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I noticed that it didn't sound the same. He's not
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: a far left progressive, Okay, he's probably kind of like
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Barack Obama in that I think Obama was much more
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: progressive than he governed. He kind of governed center left,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: even though I think if he were if he didn't
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: have to negotiate with Congress, he probably would have been
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: a lot more far left. And the fact that he
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: allowed the the economy it grew at about one percent
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: a year. It wasn't gangbusters, but it wasn't what it
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: was when he came in. So he was able to
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: win some people over because of that. But I think
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: if he was left to his own devices, he's very progressive.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: But it'll be interesting to see how John does. I
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: kept trying to get We have a Palestinian woman who
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: was running for governor that is from Decab County, and
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: I was joking. I said, I was trying to get
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: her to switch over to the Senate race so we
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: could see how far left John would go. But she
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: didn't do that. She got out of the race.
• 37:23
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• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that Republican primary for the Senate. I
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: will just I will said it a few times on
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: this show, so I will say it again. I think
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: the worst name to have in politics in twenty twenty
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: six is going to be Congressman. Okay, if your first
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: name is Congress. If that's your first name, I think
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: it's terrible. I'd rather be coach. I'd rather be former
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: football coach than current member of Congress. I don't care
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: what party I'm in, but particularly in this political environment
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: we're living in where we don't really have a lot
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: of positive views of how Congress has worked and all
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: of that. But that's not what the polling has been showing.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Derek Dooley is having a lot of trouble getting traction.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Arguably all of the candidates are having some trouble getting traction,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: but not like Dooley. What you know, is there any
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: way of doing this without Donald Trump? I like.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: And Trump has not gotten involved in the Senate race yet,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: but I don't know if he will or not.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: But well, he will take Kemp's candidate. I know that,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: you know that Derek.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: I like Derek Moore every time I meet him. Derek Dooley,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: I think he's learning as he goes. I think that
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: with Mike Collins, I think you cannot underestimate the power
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: of his championing the Lake and Riley Act among Republican
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: primary voters. I mean it was in you know, and
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: especially in the area where most of the Republican voters
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: are in and around.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: You know, he's got a geographic advantage.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: On that geographical advantage, and he you know, he worked
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: the halls, and I've told him he needs to show
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: more of that side of himself about how he went
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: to these offices. He went to every Democrat's office, he
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: went to every Republican's office, and he pushed for this
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: bill and pushed for this bill and got it passed
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: into two Congresses, and you know it was you can't
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: underestimate that with primary voters. So I think it's Mike's
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: to lose of the primary. Buddy Carter's working very hard
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: and I think he's working smart, but it's hard to
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: win from that first district, just ask Jack Kingston. But
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: I do think that with the with Rick Jackson getting
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: in the race on the governor's side, yeah, that is
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: another outsider that could help Derek Dooley. But I still
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: think if the election wereal today, would be Mike Collins.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. Let's go to the governor's race. Rick Jackson
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: really seemed to be a shock to the Bert Jones campaign.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: They did. Was this truly a blind side? They didn't
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: know this was coming. There were no whispers. I mean,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest. It certainly looked to me that there
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: was no giant killer in the race. And I had
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: heard whispers of concerns about Jones and a general fear
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: that he couldn't win a general. So there had been
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: some there'd been some whispers, But the way they acted
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: is if they just couldn't believe this happened.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: It was completely quiet, and I know Rick, I've known
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: him for years. He brought me into his office when
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I ran for Congress. That's when I first met him,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: and I'd worked with him on foster care stuff. I mean,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: he's been very involved in politics. He's given money to everyone,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: and that's running gotten him a little bit in a
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: little bit of trouble. But it was totally unknown, and
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: it completely upended the entire race for three or four weeks.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Jones's people were completely on their back feet for three
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: or four weeks. They're kind of gaining it back and
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: a little bit now.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: But they're doing trumpet. Has he still is holding a
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Trump endorsement?
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's holding a trumpet.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: And it's active, right, It's an active endorsement, right.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: It's an active endorsement, he says.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: As you never know, like Trump has the ones where
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: he's endorsed everybody, he's endorsed previously candidates fudge.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: You know, there are trips back and forth to mar
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: A Lago by Rick Jackson, though, so you know it's happening.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, we know, the president likes a winner, and if
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: somebody suddenly looks like a winner and they're rich and
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: mister Jackson is rich. Mister Trump can be persuaded, and
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: he has.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I tell you, I've went to several of his events,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: and what is so amazing to me is the women
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: that have shown up that are not Republican, not regular
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: people that you see at Republican events. They came because
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: of the commercials and they loved the fact that he
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: came from nothing. He lived in techwood homes, you know,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: he lived in the projects. He and he broke the cycle.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: He's had a long term marriage since he was nineteen
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: years old. He's got three successful children that are doing
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: great and that are running the businesses now for him.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: And he, you know, he's he's he's made some missteps
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: because he doesn't know you know, he's not a politicians.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: He's a guy that's running business. But Bert seems to
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: be getting his feet under him again. But I'm sure
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: he can't wait for Sinny die on Thursday, which is
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: the last day of the legislative session, because then he
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: can raise money and get out on the main trail.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Again, where's the governor on this? Does he have all
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: strong preference? No?
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think all he cares about is getting Derek
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Dooley across the finish line.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: So he's got that he is that is more his
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: focus is that center race, really and he's just sort
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: of staying above the frey and the governor's And I.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Tell you, I wish that he had run, because if
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Brian Kemp had run, we wouldn't have this fruit basket
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: turnover that we've had in the Republican Party. We've got
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: about half of the Senate running for other offices. We're
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: going to have a George is going to look different
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: next year. I just don't know, you know what the
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: makeup's going to be because there are so many people
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: running for higher office then Martha.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: It is a miserable being in Congress right now. Okay, well, and.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Going from governor to Senate, they don't like it.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: It's you talk to any former governor in the Senate,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: and every one of them, I've had this conversation. Whether
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: it's Lamar, Alexander, Mark Warner, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: if a democratic governor republic they hate the Senate once
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: they've gotten there. And that's why you see, I think
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: we have a record number of sitting Senators running for
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: governor this year. In other states across the board. And
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: then the other problem, I mean the problem is what
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: used to make the Senate fun and actually, frankly a
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: great place for a former governor to go, is that
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: that it was a place to be somewhat independent. I mean,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: you were expected to sit on one side of the
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: aisle or the other, but nobody expected you know, they'd
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: look at Ted Kennedy and John McCain and think, okay,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: I can mess around. It's okay to work with the
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: other side. And it was a very accepted practice in
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: the Senate in some ways. It was a feature, not
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: a bug, of the Senate. And I think the Senate
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: in particular in our new polarize and I say new
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: polarized climate obviously where the politics that you and I
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: grew up with in the seventies and eighties is not
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: today's politics. Right. The divides may look familiar, but it's different.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: And you keep bringing up sam Nun. Sam Nunn was
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: my father's dream candidate for president. He was recovering, you know.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: He was a Reagan Democrat who never went back to
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, and he loved sam Nun. Sam Nunn
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: was always the last, the one Democrat alive that he
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: wanted to vote for next before he passed away. So
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: you cannot do that anymore in the Senate because that
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: in some ways, maybe it's our partisan media, right, we
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: have a very there's robust liberal media, there's robust conservative media,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: there's robust mega media, there's robust influencer media, whatever you
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: want to call it these days, right, and it's all different.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: And if Governor camp ask me could he get anything
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: done in the Senate, I tell them you can't unless
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: you become a leader. And you know, especially it's really
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: miserable being in the Senate when your party's in the
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: White House because you cannot ever criticize your party, even
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: if you really want to. You become a heretic, as
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: ask Joe Manchin or ask Lisa Mrkowski.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's so, you know, the
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Senate was always like my dream job, you know. I
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: always thought that would be like the most fun because
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't have to be as political because it's a
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: six year term, you know, And it's just not that
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: way anymore. But I kind of blame where we are
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: in politics today on the decision in nineteen thirteen to
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: change the constitution and make the Senate elected instead of
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: a point.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, you're one of those you want to repeal that.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: I have a I blame about thirteen years later. I
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: blame Congress no longer expanding the size of the House
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: every ten years, not just that's interesting. I don't know
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: if I want state legislature. Well, he's cited. Tell you
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: there's always maker case. I'll shut up.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: There's always going to be corruption in politics. Okay, but
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: at least when you were dealing with the Senate, I
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: mean with the legislature, you didn't need all this money
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: to run. And I remember David Produce saying to me,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: you know, well, then then I would have never won
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: in a situation like that. I said, but maybe you
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have wanted to leave retirement and run if we
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: had had those kind of senators. Because I believe the
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: problem with the Senate they're not beholding to their states anymore.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: They care more about their donors and their caucus than
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: they do about their states. They do not put their
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: states first. Whether it's Rafayel Warnock and John oss Off
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: or it's uh, you know, what's a state with two Republicans.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. They're not as they're not as beholden,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: they care more about the DSCC and their caucus and
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: their donors, and that's when that kind of money raising started.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: You know, they didn't need money before then. So that's
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: my thought. I am one of those twenty three.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Well, well I say that, you know, you know, the
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: trigger for that amendment, like the last Straw, was a
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: bribery scandal of the Illinois state legislature. And I know
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Illinois shop, but it was a bribery of the Illinois
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: State of Basically, they were handing out ten thousand dollars
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: checks in nineteen nine, nineteen ten. That's a lot of
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: money in nineteen ten.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, my grandmother's house in Jersey City was about ten
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars around that time.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: See that's how much a that's how much per legend,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: per vote they were purchasing. You know, it's no wonder
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Rod Blgoyevitch didn't want to give up that Obama senancy
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: per zero. You know that his famous quote, Well, I
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: don't know. I look at state. I'll be honest, I
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: believe the least corrupt legislature in America's Congress, and that
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: the lower you go, the more corruptible it is. And
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: there's a variety of reasons for that one. Money, Well,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: more eyeballs on Congress. There's more reporters. You can hate them,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: hate us, or love us. There's just more of us
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: covering Congress. Fewer are at state legislatures and even fewer
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: at city councils. Right, I would say the most corrupt
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: is usually the most local because no one's watching. No,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Disagree with that. And the joke I used to tell
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: when Cassim Reid was the mayor of Atlanta, I said, yeah,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: the money comes in down the hall and that's very tempting.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like you can't you know, it's a
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: it's a it's a challenge. And I think that you're right.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: I think the more local stuff is more corrupt. And
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know that the I'm not saying so much
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: that the senate's corrupt. It just takes too much money
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: to become a senator. I mean, I think we spent
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: a half a billion dollars last time in that cycle.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: And that's North Carolina. It's probably going to be the
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: first billion dollar center. Yeah, it's crazy, sanity it is.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: It's too much money. It's like when I I had
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: a meeting for that Senate seat appointment that Kelly Leppler got,
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: and I was very frank with the governor. I said,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: I can't raise twenty million dollars. I'm not that good
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: at it, you know. And I thought Kelly Leffler was great,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: but she got forced because Doug Collins got into the race.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: She got forced to go right instead of being that
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: suburban woman she was.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got the sense that Kelly Loffler lost her
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: political identity pretty quickly. It sounds like you agree with
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: that that it felt like who she was when she
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: who Governor Kemp thought he was appointing. A bunch of
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: political consultants got ahold of her and turned her into
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: a two dimensional, just caricature.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Well, it's the consultants all the time, isn't it. You've
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: got to be really strong in that area. But one
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: thing I do love about her is that she didn't
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: take her ball and go home. She started this organization
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: called Greater Georgia that was dad or driven and that
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: that identified a bunch of conservative households that weren't voting
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: regularly and got out and did the grassroots stuff to
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: get him out to vote. And so I think, you know,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: so that's one thing I left. She did not take
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: her ball and go home, and she continued being an
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: operative in Georgia politics.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Brian Kemp for president, it's going to It sounds to me,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: it's like it's going to happen. I think if he
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons you don't run for
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: the Senate see Look, I think there was a lot
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: of job description reasons why you don't run for the Senate. See.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: But if you're at all thinking about running in twenty eight,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: it's an insult of voters to immediately run for one
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: thing in twenty six and then another thing in twenty eight.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: So if he was thinking about president, it makes a
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: lot of sense for me at least, then don't run
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: for the Senate, because that be you know, to leave
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: after two you know, immediately you're running, and then you'd
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: immediately be running.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well know, after we get through this
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: session and actually the primary, he's probably not going to
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: do anything to take the light off of Derek Dooley
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: at all. I have not talked to him about a
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: presidential run, but you know, it all depends on Marty.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: You know, they are a very very strong couple and
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: if she is not interested in doing that, they won't
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: do it. And I don't think that's a bad idea
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: for couples to be that way actually, because it's a
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: big commitment, you know, it's a big commitment to do that.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: And it's easier for women to not have their husbands
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: everywhere than it is for men to not have their
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: wives everywhere. You know, my husband was you know, he
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: would put signs up, but he wasn't a guy that
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: was going to come to an event with me and
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: be the little man. But it's more acceptable for a
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: you know, a husband of a female candidate not to
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: show up everywhere.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: That's interesting that that's an observation that I've not heard before.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: But I think you're right. I think there is. It
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: is one of these how would you do? It's it's
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a stereotype that it's not fair, but
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: it's people ask me.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: He's going to take care of my kids? Who's going
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: to I mean, my kids were all grown by then.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: You know, when women start I did my whole thesis
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: on women's electoral success in the Republican Party, and women
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: start later because they think they need to be ready.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Men will just run for anything, but the fun The
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: hardest thing is you've got to let You've got to
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: put aside the time to get your hair done, okay,
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: because there are no gray haired women in politics or
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: television are very few. And who's going to carry your purse?
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: Because it never looks good to walk out of her
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: room with your purse. So you got to do those things.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Do you What do you make of Marjorie Taylor Green's critique.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: She's been specifically on this that that MAGA doesn't make
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: it easy for women.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: I agree with that, and I think that, okay, Marjorie
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: should have talked a lot more throughout her career about
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: this great third generation construction business that she was keeping
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: going and growing. And that was my advice to her.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: When she first started running. Nobody really knew that side
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: of her. They just knew the bomb throwing side of her.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of problem with people that leave
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: office before their term is up. To your point that
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: you were talking about earlier, it's a two year office
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: that you asked for, you begged for, you raised money for.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: And even if she decided she wasn't going to run,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: she just could not run and then finished out her
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: term instead of doing what she's doing to her people
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: right now, is which a primary and run a general,
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: I mean a jungle primary and a runoff, and then
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: they're going to have a general primary and a runoff
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: and then they're going to have another election. And so
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: I just hate that, okay. And I think the only
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: time I have ever agreed with AOC is when she
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: said Donald Trump's been giving you a hard time for
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: a week. He's been doing it to me for five years,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: and you're leaving, So I you know, I think AOC
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: is the most overblown person that I've ever seen in politics.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: I think she does not I think she's very attractive,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: and even men on my side think she looks great.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: But I think she didn't understand what the real world
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: is like. And but she was right about that. I mean,
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: you get picked on by the president for a week
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: and you quit your job.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Do you think is there any credence to her criticism?
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Though that it is harder for that It is harder
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: for women to get traction with the Maga wing of
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: the party, not just magawing.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: It's harder for women to get traction everywhere the Democrats
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: do a little better job than the Republicans do, but
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: it's still not anywhere near their percentage of who's voting.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Because women are the hardest on other women. You know,
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: I got a lot more problem.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: And that's what missus Todd would tell you.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah she did.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: She feels like, you know, she used to argue, you know,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: particularly for our generation, there would be one seat at
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: the table for a woman, right, and so hey, it's
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: more seats than there were from the boom, and you
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: get that one seat, and other women would instead of
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: fighting to get a second or a third seat, they
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: didn't said and said they all, you know, keeping other
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: women from making it right rather than fighting for more.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: I think in general, it's easy easier for men. Period.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: We've come a long way, baby, And I consider myself
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: a feminist and I really resent it when liberal feminists
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: say I can't be a feminist because I'm a conservative.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: I think being a feminist is all about having the
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: choices you know before you you know, I stayed at
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: home for ten for eight years, and I did, you know,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: I say, you can have it all, just not at
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: the same time. And there's just it's harder for women
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: and everything, Okay, even though we've come a long way
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: and we've done great. But you know what, I don't
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: focus on that. I have a great husband and a
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: fantastic family, and especially being eight weeks out from a
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: heart attack, I'm thinking, you know, there's a lot more
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: important things in life, so you just got to make
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: sure you got all your priorities straight.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Let me close with this. I had Jack dan Forth
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: on recently, who's just I mean, it's amazing at ninety
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: two and he's you think he was seventy two. Like,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: you know, he's just one of the great gentlemen of
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: the US Senate in back you know when people say
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: the good old days, He's one of the people I
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: would vision envision in my head.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: He's one of the people that made it good.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: He's really he really is. What really animates him negatively
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: about this about President Trump and about MAGA is the
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: nastiness of it, right, the personal, the and look, it
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: is ugly. I'm not going to sit here and says
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: politics ain't being bad, right, all's fair and love and politics, right, Okay,
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I think I've been around long enough to understand that.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: Do you think we've crossed the line though, in where
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: our rhetoric is and and you know, I mean, I'm
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: sure you run into this, right, Why why do why
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: do you suburban sort of squishy Republicans, Why are they
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: willing to cross the aisle against Trump? It's usually for
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: character and style, not necessarily for substance.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: It's true. And look, I have this theory that there
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: are these fifty year cycles and we get just far
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: enough away that we don't remember. So like in the
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: nineteen twenties you had prohibitions, so you had lawlessness and
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: crime in the cities and all this stuff. In the
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventies you had in the late sixties and seventies,
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: you had assassinations, you had political assassinations, you had you know,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: all that sort of thing that happened. And then you know,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: we're now in the twenty twenties. We've got the same
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: sort of cycle. We had some political assassination last year,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: we had other things that were going on. And you've
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: got people now not moving from the cities to the suburbs,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: they're moving whole states. And so I think we're kind
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: of I'm an optimistic person, so I think things will
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: get better.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: I don't think this is all Trump fault. You know,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: I think that he was a symptom. I've often said
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: that I think Barack Obama and Donald Trump were two
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: sides of the same coin. People wanted to.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: Voters wanted not just change, they wanted full disruptions. Yes,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: and Obama was one kind of disruption, and then Trump
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: was was, you know, another kind of disruption. And I
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: don't disagree with that. Yeah, I think there's some truth things.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: My theory is President Obama actually really wanted to belong more.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: You know, he said he was the change agent, and
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: I guess he was because he was the first president.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: He wanted to be in the club, and so he
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: wanted to kind of function the way the way it
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: always had been done. And he strikes me as somebody
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: that they thought he was this guy that wanted to
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: change everything, but maybe he didn't. Now, granted he was
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: a blessing.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: I can argue that anybody that breaks the ceiling, Yeah,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: the first all firsts, I feel as if they have
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: to be extraordinary, cautious, yeah, and a bit risk averse.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: And whether it's political risk averseness or cultural risk averseness.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: You know, there's this great line about that I got
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: when I was reporting out Biden being the running mate,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: you know, rather than and the line that I kept
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: being told that Barack Obama said is I'm enough change
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: and it is always stuck with me because you're right.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: I mean he chose. I think he saw it as, Hey,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: I can't be too radical, I can't be to this
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: because I am breaking a barrier. And I think it's
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: true of anybody that's broken a barrier. I'm sure you
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: know you don't want to be you don't want to
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: leave this place where nobody that looks like you doesn't
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: have a shot again.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Well, and I think too that he and this is
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: one of those women things, Okay, because I looked at
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of pictures of him as a child, and
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of pictures there. If you notice, and you
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: go back and look at pictures of him as a child,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: he was sitting alone a lot, you know, if there
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: was a group of kids, he was over by himself.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: It was like I think he felt very you know,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: it's different now being biracial than it was. It's almost
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: like lift it up now being biracial, it's very positive
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: in the unil.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Well, when he was born it was his parents. It
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: was different relationship was illegal and about out the States. Absolutely.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so you saw this kind of guy, and
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: I think he's been trying to fit in, you know,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: whether it was to go to the right church, marry
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: the right person, do the right kind.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: I've always chalked it up to the island mentality, you know.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: You know, he grew up differently than most of us do. Right,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: You grew up on an island and you have to
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: work with others because you're kind of you're all stuck
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: in this island. Good, better and different. By the way
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: you'd see it during COVID, Right, the island nations handled
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: it much better than anybody else did, just because they're
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: kind of used to, hey, oh hey, we've got we've
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: got an outbreak of something. We got to be careful
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: or we got to do that we had And Hawaii
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: is such a melt you know, we talked about being
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: a melting pot. Hawaii is a melting there is nobody's
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: at fifty percent right. You've got a Japanese population, a
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Native Hawaiian population, a North you know, sort of ex
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: pat if you want to call it that, people that
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: grew up on the continental United States over there, and
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: it's just a. It's a it really is a full
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: fledged melting pot. So yeah, I think all of that
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: is true with him. Well, just like with with Trump,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: you know, he had a different sort of you know,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I think he also had a lonely child. But because
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: here's something that's always bugged me, and it's a bug's
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: like the wrong word. But it's an observation you meant
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: about Obama, And I'm curious if you've noticed it about Trump.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: You know what, you know what you never hear about
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Childhood friend came to visit him today. Guy
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: he went to college with, came to visit at Mar
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: A Lago today. Person he grew up with, he went
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: golfing with today. And I don't say that as any judgment.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: It's just interesting. And it's like he also went to
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: boarding school. He also sort of I think he was
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: raised weirdly isolated from other kids.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: Probably a lot of them are dead, Okay, that is
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: it would be his child.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, forget he's.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Out there, and we forget that when he came across
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: the bridge from Staten Island or wherever it was that
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: he grew up to Manhattan, he was a destructor because
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: you didn't come over and get into the Manhattan real
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: estate business if you didn't have that connection to the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Manhattan real estate business. And it's so interesting. He's an
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: interesting guy, he really is. I mean, I don't like
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: all the things that I don't like a lot of
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: the things that he says. I don't like that way
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: he presents himself. I mean, the whole thing about Rob
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Reiner and then about Mueller when you know he can
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: act right. When he was asked about RB Ruth Bader Ginsburg,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: he was gracious and he was kind and he.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Didn't like her V Does I tell you when you
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: can't fake it? When you what what do you mean?
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: I mean? I was just like, can't you just not
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: give you hold off a week? I mean, I had
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: a boss who had a very strong feelings about Richard Nixon.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: And when Richard Nixon died, and he had worked very
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: closely with Nixon, Rolfe, closely with that version of the
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Republican Party, he goes. He said, I'm not going to
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: say anything until after he's buried and after all the
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: tributes have happened. There was like this. He believed that
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: there was like some level of respect, like this was
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: not the week to tell you, you know. But when
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: it was over, he called an all staff, meaning let me,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: let's sit down and let me tell you about him.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: And he had some things to say, but there was
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: this pay some respect to the dead.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, No, I agree he didn't really Lpja was a
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: horrible person, but nobody said anything about it, you know,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: on the day he died, you know. And I just
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: think that there's there's like a Jenson Franklin who's a
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: pastor in our community. He's part of the faith community
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: for Trump said he has a problem with the compassion gene.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: But then you also see these really gracious things he
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: does with little kids at the Easter egg thing or
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: people that he brings into the Oval office so he
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: can do it. I just wish he would do it,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: you know. I kind of wish X would or truth
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: social whatever you use. Go back to one hundred and
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: forty characters, because it would. You know, it's that last
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: line that's the problem. They get you in trouble.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not the first person who said I remember
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: I had somebody who worked for him and said, I
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: like when you interview him because you keep him on message,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: because but it's he look someday we'll study maybe somebody
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: will study him in science trying to figure that out.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Because it he only would have to modify his behavior
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: this much, it need be in a better place. And
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: the fact that he won't modify his behavior that much
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: is also a curiosity why he's willing to do so
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: many other things transactionally. Why won't you do that? Because
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: the benefits you would get if you would do that
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: could be pretty big politically, but he chooses not to.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: But I do think that so far the second term
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: is much better than the first term. And I do
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: think that he really that voters.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: The voters are agreeing with you on that his numbers
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: are worse now than they were anytime during the first term.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: Well that may at the moment, you know, polling his
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: snapshots anyway.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: True, And this war is not popular coupled with affordability,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: it's a mess.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I obviously this election is the Democrats to lose. Okay,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: the Democrats should pick up in November. We've had what
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: was the two thousand and two I guess the last time.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: That this card and that was arguably a war, right,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: it was the war.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: It was war time, and it was we had been attacked,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: and so you know, it's it'll be interesting to see
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: how it plays out. I just don't I don't pay
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: attention to poles as much as I used to because
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: the just you don't know if they're AI generated, don't
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: know where they come from and what they do. And
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: I know I don't answer the polling calls that I get.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: And I know I'm a weirdo, you know, because I'm
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: a political person, but but I just don't know. It
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: is funny though, because my daughter will I'll sometimes get
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: calls from my daughter and it's always a left linging
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: poll and so I do answer that one. So I
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: just try to mess it up all right.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Let me get you out of here on this. Now
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: that Miami's going to be dominating college football again and
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: the Big Ten keeps winning national titles, is Kirby Smart
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: on the hot seat? Yet? I mean, how many? How long?
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: How long does this drought? How expected are you as
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Bulldog fans for this winning now like this? How much
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: how much does he how much time does he buy?
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I don't disagree that we're in a drought. We won
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: the SEC championship, and you know it's it's I think
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Georgia bulldog. He's there as long as he wants to
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: be there. Because the thing about George is, we don't
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: like to hire coaches that have already made it, you know,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: we like to hire coaches we can grow, and that's
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: what that's what we like to do.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: But I'm so you've had better success when you've hired
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: coaches that can grow versus right. I mean, both both
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Ricked and Smart weren't head coaches. The first head coaching
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: job was Georgia, right for both cases, yes, right, and.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Vince Dooley too, you know, way back when.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I you know, I h one of the weird
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: things about Miami and Georgia is that they've both been
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: big college football powers off and on for the last
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: thirty years, and they never play. It really bugs me
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: that Miami and Georgia. In fact, I was looking forward
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: and then to Miami playing Georgia Carson Beck's return, and
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: yet you guys blew it against Old Mess. I mean,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: you know, you ruined what would have been a rare
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: unique I think it had been. I mean, Mimi had
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: only played Old Miss like three times. It is strange,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: how in the hotbed of the South that that Miami,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: and some of these SEC schools have rarely played.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: Don't count the SEC out and our applications are way
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: up because we handled all the problems with the protests
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: better than anybody else. And and look, Ole miss is
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: fantastic because they built this back. They have the best tailgating.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever tailgated.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been there. I look. Look, all I'll say
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: is an acc apologist is the only difference between the
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: ACEC and the secs. You guys got better stadiums, okay,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: and you've got better tailgates. I will concede that. Whether
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: it's Faetteville, whether it's Oxford, whether it's Athens, Auburn, I
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: will concede college station. You know these adopted SEC towns
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: that I still can't quite believe their SEC town I
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: will give you that you guys have better stadiums, but
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: I just questioned whether the football is actually that much better.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: That's all right, well it you know the numbers back
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: it up. We're going to see what happens though with
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: nil I mean, and all the things that are going
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: on there. I'm so glad that Rick Saban was on,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: that Nick Saban was on that committee though, because he's
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: you know, he knows how to.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: Do it so well. I I appreciate that the president
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: wants to insert himself in this. This is a congress job.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Congress has to get involved. This is a this is
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: they've got to get involved. University. President's got to go
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: as in some ways the president is a distraction from this.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: He cannot solve this with an executive order.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, my friend Saxby Chambliss, he's living the
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: life of Riley Man. He's got he's got this.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: What's the handicap down to? He had the most handicap
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: in sate for a long time.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: But he also had he dealt with the PGA live thing, right,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: which is cool. And then he's doing nil too, so
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: he's he's really staying relevant. We're going to talk tomorrow actually,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: and then he's going to be on the show Wednesday, and.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, Well that that is something I'm gonna if
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: you're going to be I'm going to have to check
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: that out. I was always curious about mister Chambliss, and
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: I'm glad to know he's still as active as he
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: as you.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: Described, and he's recovered one percent from the stroke. He
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: had several years ago, and he's just doing great. Well.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Martha, this was a pleasure, and I have no idea
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: whether your listeners would want a home in a way,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: but you know, let me know I.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Appreciate it very much. We'll have you on sometime, all
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: right
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Martha, good, Thank you,