Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 407: Unforgettable Storytelling Phillip Andrew on Creativity, Leadership, and Resilience

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BPS 407: Unforgettable Storytelling Phillip Andrew on Creativity, Leadership, and Resilience · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four zero seven.
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Speaker 2: Start writing no matter what. The water does not flow
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Speaker 1: Louis Lemore broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood
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Speaker 1: when we really should be working on that next draft.
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Speaker 1: It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
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Speaker 1: business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
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Speaker 1: screenplay bulletproof.
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Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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Speaker 3: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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Speaker 2: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
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Speaker 4: On this week's episode of the podcast, we have a
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Speaker 4: guest from La where else we we again. We met
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Speaker 4: through the power of Twitter, and this guest and I
1:49
Speaker 4: are going to be talking all about what an education
1:51
Speaker 4: really means. You know, we talk about college education, we
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Speaker 4: talk about moving out to La. The ups, the downs,
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Speaker 4: you know, pretty brutal, honest interviews, as my guest shares
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Speaker 4: a lot of his downs and you know how he
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Speaker 4: actually networked and it wasn't the traditional ways and just
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Speaker 4: finding through all of this sort of maze of things,
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Speaker 4: and the whole concept of this interview is gonna be
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Speaker 4: unforgettable storytelling, as we kind of talk a lot about
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Speaker 4: the different methods of storytelling, and you know, directly and
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Speaker 4: indirectly a lot of the other things that go on here.
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Speaker 4: And you know what ideas stick, what ideas don't stick,
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Speaker 4: unreliable narrators, you know, all that good stuff. So without
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Speaker 4: further ado with guests, Philip.
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Speaker 5: Andrew, oh, man, you gotta be careful who you meet
2:38
Speaker 5: on the interwebs, man, you know, isn't it crazy that like.
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Speaker 3: Years ago you would never.
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Speaker 5: It was weird to meet like dating, Like it was
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Speaker 5: weird to go online dating.
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Speaker 3: You would never. You were told to never take rides
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Speaker 3: with strangers.
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Speaker 5: And now our entire world is like based around like
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Speaker 5: uber and lyft and like jumping in the cars with
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Speaker 5: strangers and that's completely okay. And like nobody even knows
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Speaker 5: how to meet each other in person anymore. Everybody's always
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Speaker 5: you know, you got to swipe right, sweite left to
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Speaker 5: meet anyone.
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Speaker 3: Like things have changed so quickly, it's insane.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you're encouraged now to trust strangers, like
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Speaker 4: put all your faith and your bodily harm and strangers.
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Speaker 6: It's it's kind of crawl.
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Speaker 3: Man.
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Speaker 5: I remember I went to a so I'm here, I'm
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Speaker 5: out here in Los Angeles, and I remember going to
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Speaker 5: a party and we go to this party and it's
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Speaker 5: kind of like at the base of like the Hollywood Hills.
3:29
Speaker 5: It's like a nice house but nothing too insane. And
3:32
Speaker 5: we go to this house and we're like kind of like, yo,
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Speaker 5: what is this party for?
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Speaker 3: Like, who is it? Someone's birthday?
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Speaker 5: What is it?
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Speaker 3: They're like, oh no, it's this like new startup app.
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Speaker 3: And we're like what the hell is that?
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Speaker 5: And they're like, oh, well, it's like here and they
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Speaker 5: handed me a pen. Like the only party gifts were
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Speaker 5: like a pen with the logo on it, like you
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Speaker 5: would get at some you know, at like a trade show.
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Speaker 5: And I look at it and I'm like, lift, Oh,
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Speaker 5: what the hell is Lyft And they go, oh, yeah, man,
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Speaker 5: it's like this app where you can, you know, you
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Speaker 5: can get rides from people that are already going.
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Speaker 3: The way that you're going. And I was like, so
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Speaker 3: you get in a car with a stranger and the way. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: And I was like this is the dumbest idea ever.
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Speaker 3: It'll never work.
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Speaker 5: And then like years later, I'm the guy who has
4:15
Speaker 5: to sit here and be like, oh, I guess I'm
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Speaker 5: not that much of an innovator, you know, I'm.
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Speaker 4: Surprised they actually gave away pens, you know, because like
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Speaker 4: an idea for me. If you're gonna do like a
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Speaker 4: launch like that, you'd give away like a service, so
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Speaker 4: you would say, hey, this is the service, this is Lyft,
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Speaker 4: and you would kind of demonstrate it, you know what
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Speaker 4: I mean. Because pens, Yeah, I think pens are kind
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Speaker 4: of I mean, don't get me wrong, I still use
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Speaker 4: pens every day, but pens, I just don't know if
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Speaker 4: if they really have the same marketing branding powers they once.
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Speaker 6: Had, you know, definitely, yeah, you know what I mean.
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Speaker 4: It's just like I don't think people you look at
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Speaker 4: that and go, oh man, I gotta use Lyft now
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Speaker 4: I'm using their pen, come on.
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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of crazy. So
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Speaker 3: but yeah, it was.
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Speaker 5: I always try to remember that anytime that I want
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Speaker 5: to anytime, my first immediate reaction is to want to
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Speaker 5: like rip something apart.
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Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 5: Then I'm like, wait a minute, think, think in a
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Speaker 5: different world where maybe this could work.
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Speaker 3: How would it work? Why would people? You know?
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Speaker 5: And it it just forces me, you know, I think
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Speaker 5: in life you always have those examples of things that
5:15
Speaker 5: happen when you were completely and utterly wrong, and so
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Speaker 5: it's like it reminds me to be like, all right,
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Speaker 5: don't don't try to crush this dream or don't try
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Speaker 5: to you know, don't don't veto this idea, really give it,
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Speaker 5: give it a little bit of time, think it through
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Speaker 5: and see if there is something there, rather than just
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Speaker 5: giving snap judgments on stuff.
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Speaker 3: So I try to use it as like a life lesson.
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Speaker 6: I guess yeah, yeah right.
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Speaker 4: So, And you know when you saw these new apps
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Speaker 4: come out, now you kind of wonder how it all
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Speaker 4: ties in together, because you know, with all these apps
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Speaker 4: coming out, you go, my god, there's so many out there,
5:47
Speaker 4: and there's so many different social media channels. It's like,
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Speaker 4: you know what what catches on what doesn't? And that's
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Speaker 4: why there's so many books now written about this stuff,
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Speaker 4: about business and about you know, ideas that catch it.
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Speaker 6: There's actually a book called Sticky.
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Speaker 4: It's actually about what ideas stick and what does and
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Speaker 4: what doesn't and why that is.
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Speaker 3: Oh no way, I'm reading a book right now called
6:06
Speaker 3: Sticky Marketing.
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Speaker 4: Oh, Sticky Marketing. I don't know if it's the same one, yeah,
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Speaker 4: but it could be.
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Speaker 3: I did. I did see that. Yeah, it's crazy.
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Speaker 5: I mean, like I know, they've had tons of studies
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Speaker 5: come out with like what makes what makes something memorable?
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Speaker 3: What what how do you know, how do you help.
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Speaker 5: Things add to your memory? What what makes something emotional?
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Speaker 5: What is the best you know? For us as as storytellers,
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Speaker 5: it's like always trying to figure out exactly like what
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Speaker 5: is going to resonate with with the target audience, what's
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Speaker 5: going to stick with them?
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Speaker 3: What is it that they like? You know, what is
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Speaker 3: it that they remember?
6:39
Speaker 5: You know, even we talk about it, you know from
6:41
Speaker 5: speaking standpoints when uh, you know, so often people will
6:45
Speaker 5: go in and they could go to a conference and
6:48
Speaker 5: have a great time, and then you'd be like, oh,
6:50
Speaker 5: what did the speaker talk about?
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Speaker 3: Or who is the speaker?
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Speaker 5: And they'll go, oh, I don't know, but he told
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Speaker 5: this story about blah blah blah. And it's like that's
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Speaker 5: people don't remember the names necessarily, they don't even remember
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Speaker 5: where the information came from. They remember these powerful stories.
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Speaker 3: And I think.
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Speaker 5: That's really important for us to realize, like anytime that
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Speaker 5: anytime you're whether you're in marketing or advertising or you know,
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Speaker 5: for us in TV or wherever, like, it's important to
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Speaker 5: tell great stories that people want to repeat, you know.
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Speaker 5: I mean that's the that was even before we had
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Speaker 5: things to write down and before we had TV, and
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Speaker 5: way back in the day, that's how things got told.
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Speaker 5: That's how we taught people how to you know, how
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Speaker 5: to behave what was the proper way to handle certain situations,
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Speaker 5: how do you stay motivated? It was all through story.
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Speaker 5: It was all through generational storytelling. And I think it's
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Speaker 5: important that we don't ever allow ourselves to get so
7:44
Speaker 5: caught up in the technology, you know, that we forget
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Speaker 5: that while it's amazing to have these brand new you know,
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Speaker 5: these amazing cameras that look insane in VR and three D,
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Speaker 5: and we're getting all this amazing technology, at the core,
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Speaker 5: at the root of it, the most important thing is
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Speaker 5: still storytelling and telling a great, captivating, memorable story. And
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Speaker 5: if you don't have that, it doesn't matter how cool
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Speaker 5: the footage is, it doesn't matter how great the audio is.
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Speaker 5: If you're not saying something that is worth people wanting
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Speaker 5: to hear and wanting to repeat, then what the hell
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Speaker 5: are we doing?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's sort of like the story behind you know,
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Speaker 4: even the story you tell within the company, right, so
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Speaker 4: there's a story that you know, the managers and directors
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Speaker 4: and all that they have to tell everybody it's like
8:31
Speaker 4: being on a film set, you know, because we're you know,
8:33
Speaker 4: we're both in the same industry. So if you're the director,
8:37
Speaker 4: you want to be able to sort of you al
8:40
Speaker 4: must create that.
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Speaker 6: I guess zeitgeist is the right word I'm looking for, right.
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Speaker 4: We want to create sort of you know, feeling on set,
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Speaker 4: and it's it's almost like the story you're telling them,
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Speaker 4: you know, there's a there's a quick addict to it.
8:51
Speaker 4: I want to tell it's A friend of mine was
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Speaker 4: working on a film with Spike Lee, and Spike Lee
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Speaker 4: actually got on the got in front of everybody the
8:57
Speaker 4: day of that they started filming, and actually, he goes,
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Speaker 4: this was like a whole different Spike, and he was like, Hey,
9:03
Speaker 4: you know what, if we all work together and do
9:05
Speaker 4: all this together, we're going to make a damn good film.
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Speaker 4: And he was like, man, he goes this, Spike is
9:09
Speaker 4: awesome because it's like, you know, he's up there telling
9:11
Speaker 4: the story about how we're all going to work together.
9:13
Speaker 6: We're all just going to make this amazing thing.
9:15
Speaker 4: It was and it's going to be fantastic, And that
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Speaker 4: really stuck with all the crew after that, After Spike
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Speaker 4: did that.
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Speaker 5: I think that's I think it's key, right, It's like
9:26
Speaker 5: and I think there's you know, you study, I've studied
9:29
Speaker 5: a lot of like the great you know battle you
9:32
Speaker 5: know war war like generals and people that led people
9:36
Speaker 5: into massive wars. And you know, people don't want to
9:40
Speaker 5: fight for someone when from the comfort of their own home,
9:43
Speaker 5: you know, like they want to they want to feel
9:45
Speaker 5: like their leader is out in front, like their leader
9:48
Speaker 5: is there and is willing to go through the battle
9:50
Speaker 5: with them, you know. And I think that's so important.
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Speaker 5: I think that was great that that Spike did that.
9:54
Speaker 3: I had a moment.
9:55
Speaker 5: I remember I had a director, you know, executive producers
9:59
Speaker 5: show run that I was working with on a project.
10:03
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
10:09
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
10:12
Speaker 5: His name was Phil Lot and Phil was an amazing guy.
10:16
Speaker 5: In one of the first things I ever saw Phil do,
10:18
Speaker 5: and I still can picture this to this day, We're
10:21
Speaker 5: running around the craziness of getting the first day and
10:23
Speaker 5: getting some getting the shots set up, and I remember,
10:26
Speaker 5: in all the craziness, for some reason, I like look
10:28
Speaker 5: over and I see Phil and there was a there
10:30
Speaker 5: was a plug for a light that needed to get
10:33
Speaker 5: plugged in, and it was underneath the table. And you know,
10:37
Speaker 5: Phil has been in the industry for you know, twenty
10:39
Speaker 5: twenty five years. He's won tons of awards, very very talented,
10:45
Speaker 5: and he doesn't He's got his walkie. He easily could
10:48
Speaker 5: have said, you know, hey, you know Phil for an
10:49
Speaker 5: available PA. I need somebody to you know, come plug
10:52
Speaker 5: his light in. And it would have been normal, It
10:54
Speaker 5: would have been fine. It would have no one would
10:56
Speaker 5: have thought anything of it. But I sat there and
10:59
Speaker 5: watched the sho showrunner of the project, get down on
11:02
Speaker 5: his hands and knees, crawl underneath the table, plug this
11:06
Speaker 5: light in and then walk back or crawl back from
11:09
Speaker 5: underneath the table and started adjusting the light. And I remember,
11:13
Speaker 5: like it was young in my career. I was probably
11:14
Speaker 5: only twenty four to twenty five, and I remember just
11:17
Speaker 5: seeing that and it had I mean, here it is,
11:19
Speaker 5: I'm still telling the story. I had a profound impact
11:22
Speaker 5: on me because I knew, man, I'm working for a
11:26
Speaker 5: guy that's willing to do the work too. You know,
11:28
Speaker 5: he's not just some guy up here shouting orders. He's
11:31
Speaker 5: not just some guy that wants to sit back and
11:33
Speaker 5: have his coffee and make everyone else do it.
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Speaker 3: He's willing to go.
11:36
Speaker 5: He's willing to do the work too, And it made
11:40
Speaker 5: me that much more excited to want to work with
11:42
Speaker 5: him and learn from him because I understood, Man, that's
11:45
Speaker 5: the type of guy he is, and that's the type
11:48
Speaker 5: of guy that I want to help see when and
11:50
Speaker 5: I think that was so it's great that Spike did that.
11:53
Speaker 5: I mean, like I said, I think that's really important
11:55
Speaker 5: that people, you know, the.
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Speaker 3: Stories that we tell ourselves also, like.
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Speaker 5: The way that we show up to other people and
12:03
Speaker 5: and how how we are perceived in what we do.
12:06
Speaker 5: We we want to make people want to win with us,
12:09
Speaker 5: you know. And I think when you can do that,
12:11
Speaker 5: when you can have everybody on a team that is
12:14
Speaker 5: working towards one common goal, I think it's a really
12:17
Speaker 5: powerful thing and you can achieve a lot of really
12:19
Speaker 5: great stuff.
12:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to lead by example and not be
12:23
Speaker 4: one of those guys just barking on orders.
12:25
Speaker 6: Uh you know.
12:25
Speaker 4: I mean, and we've all been on those film sets too,
12:27
Speaker 4: where you know, maybe a student film I see a
12:31
Speaker 4: lot in you know, I used to work with a
12:32
Speaker 4: lot of student filmmakers and it's the kind of I
12:36
Speaker 4: guess maybe they they kind of feel like the kind
12:38
Speaker 4: of ney to to micromanage and they kind of use
12:40
Speaker 4: that as a way of directing or they are and
12:43
Speaker 4: professionals do that too.
12:44
Speaker 6: I mean, hell, you know what I mean. So it's
12:45
Speaker 6: one of those.
12:46
Speaker 4: Things where you want to lead, you want to let
12:49
Speaker 4: people know that that you're kind of there. You kind
12:51
Speaker 4: of you kind of have to be the mother and
12:52
Speaker 4: the father so to speak.
12:54
Speaker 6: You know what I mean. You kinda have to say, yeah, Tea,
12:56
Speaker 6: we're gonna do this right.
12:57
Speaker 4: And also you've got to be the father and like,
12:59
Speaker 4: all right, lets let's pull up our sleeves and got
13:00
Speaker 4: to get this done.
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Speaker 5: Definitely, I think it's an you know, and I think
13:04
Speaker 5: that's why just in you know, like with him, you know,
13:07
Speaker 5: with Spike doing that at the beginning of shooting. I
13:09
Speaker 5: think setting the tone is so very very important. Like
13:14
Speaker 5: so yesterday, I'm I'm producing a new project for a
13:17
Speaker 5: for a large digital media platform, and you know, it
13:22
Speaker 5: was our first day on set, and I scheduled a
13:24
Speaker 5: thirty minute meeting that probably only needed to be ten,
13:28
Speaker 5: but it was the first day of filming, and I
13:30
Speaker 5: scheduled this thirty minute meeting, and I went over everything
13:34
Speaker 5: with everyone. You know, we went over safety, I went
13:36
Speaker 5: over you know, expectations, made sure everyone was introduced, everyone
13:40
Speaker 5: knew who was leading what departments, and in really just
13:45
Speaker 5: set expectations so that people knew if you have a
13:48
Speaker 5: problem where to go.
13:50
Speaker 3: You know.
13:50
Speaker 5: I walked people through creative which a lot of times,
13:53
Speaker 5: especially in what we do, not everyone is you know,
13:56
Speaker 5: a lot not everyone needs to know all of the
13:58
Speaker 5: creative points or exactly this schedule for every little thing.
14:01
Speaker 5: But I really wanted, especially on day one, I wanted
14:04
Speaker 5: everyone to be on the same page, to know what
14:07
Speaker 5: we were doing and to feel that level of comfort
14:11
Speaker 5: and teamwork because I've I've been on shows before where
14:14
Speaker 5: you come in day one and it's like they expect, hey,
14:18
Speaker 5: it's the first day of filming. We're going to do
14:20
Speaker 5: an hour of ESU equipment setup and then we're going
14:23
Speaker 5: to be filming.
14:24
Speaker 3: And it's like, I don't even know who in the
14:26
Speaker 3: heck to ask for anything. I didn't meet anyone.
14:29
Speaker 5: I don't know, you know, I'll walk up to somebody
14:30
Speaker 5: and ask if they know where the coffee is and
14:32
Speaker 5: it's the director.
14:34
Speaker 3: You know. It's like so It's one of those things
14:36
Speaker 3: where it's really important I think to set that tone
14:39
Speaker 3: early on, and then when you do that, I think
14:42
Speaker 3: it gives you a little bit more leeway. Like I
14:44
Speaker 3: have a tendency to be a little bit more high energy.
14:48
Speaker 3: You know.
14:48
Speaker 5: I get nervous sometimes I get you know, sometimes I
14:52
Speaker 5: get my emotions. My emotions start to kind of take
14:54
Speaker 5: over at times before I check put them in check.
14:56
Speaker 3: And I always let people know. I go, hey, look,
14:58
Speaker 3: I want you to know.
15:00
Speaker 5: Any bit of me that is micromanaging is not coming
15:03
Speaker 5: out of a place of not feeling like you can
15:05
Speaker 5: do your job. It's just that I have a bad
15:07
Speaker 5: memory sometimes and as soon as things pop in my
15:10
Speaker 5: brain and I want to know if it's happening, I'll
15:12
Speaker 5: ask you, and please never take offense to that it's
15:16
Speaker 5: not coming from a play. And I always let people
15:18
Speaker 5: know if I actually am having an issue where I'm
15:22
Speaker 5: maybe not I'm feeling like things could be stepped up,
15:26
Speaker 5: I will come with you and I will tell you.
15:28
Speaker 5: I will be one hundred percent honest and open at
15:31
Speaker 5: every point with that stuff.
15:33
Speaker 3: And I think people appreciate that because they at.
15:35
Speaker 5: Least they know, like there's no you know, I don't
15:38
Speaker 5: want to be the person that they don't know where
15:40
Speaker 5: I stand, you know, where they're like, oh, I don't know.
15:42
Speaker 3: How he feels about me.
15:43
Speaker 5: Like I want people to know that I have their back.
15:46
Speaker 5: I'm there to support them. If there's a way that
15:49
Speaker 5: we can be doing it better, let's figure it out together.
15:52
Speaker 5: But if it's just me being crazy, like that's just
15:54
Speaker 5: kind of part of my personality, and I will do
15:56
Speaker 5: my best to diminish it and be respectful or you know,
16:00
Speaker 5: I and just I'll do my best to diminish it
16:02
Speaker 5: and not seem like a crazy person. But you know,
16:05
Speaker 5: we all have our moments, and I think coming from
16:08
Speaker 5: the beginning and just setting the tone of all of
16:11
Speaker 5: that on set is so important so that everybody knows
16:15
Speaker 5: where they stand in what's going on.
16:18
Speaker 6: So just just with that, you know, we're taking all that.
16:20
Speaker 4: Philip, what was what was like the worst onset experience
16:23
Speaker 4: that you've ever had?
16:26
Speaker 3: The worst on set experience?
16:28
Speaker 4: Like like, and you don't have to get like too
16:30
Speaker 4: much into details, but maybe I'm not looking for you
16:34
Speaker 4: like name drop or anything. Sometimes you know, but when
16:37
Speaker 4: people hear stuff like that, they're like, oh, man, I
16:39
Speaker 4: can't tell this story. I'm like, no, no, just I
16:41
Speaker 4: want to hear more about the situation rather than the person.
16:43
Speaker 6: You know, And how do how do you resolve stuff
16:45
Speaker 6: like that?
16:45
Speaker 4: Because whether it be like you know, an issue with
16:47
Speaker 4: a person on set or a location falling through, any
16:51
Speaker 4: of that stuff, you know what I mean?
16:52
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, man, oh dude, locations that locations falling through
16:56
Speaker 5: happens so much that we can't I can't even you know,
16:59
Speaker 5: it's not even a big deal anymore.
17:01
Speaker 3: I remember hearing I worked this is this is.
17:03
Speaker 5: Actually a cool, fun story that that I'll tell and
17:05
Speaker 5: then I'll get back to mind. But like, I worked
17:07
Speaker 5: on a project a few years ago with Wes Craven.
17:10
Speaker 5: There we go name drop, but no, he was such
17:13
Speaker 5: a he was such a great dude, and he was
17:15
Speaker 5: so talented and so caring. But I remember we were
17:19
Speaker 5: on set and we were shooting this project that was
17:22
Speaker 5: kind of like a horror horror film, directors competing against
17:24
Speaker 5: one another, and I remember, uh, one of they were
17:29
Speaker 5: having an argument on set, like one of the teams
17:32
Speaker 5: were trying to fire their director and replace it with
17:35
Speaker 5: another one, and they were all arguing and fighting, and
17:38
Speaker 5: I remember one one of the directors stood up.
17:40
Speaker 3: And was like, you know this is BS. I don't
17:43
Speaker 3: you know.
17:43
Speaker 5: I don't want to be a part of this anymore,
17:44
Speaker 5: Like I don't even like this isn't it's not going
17:47
Speaker 5: as planned. In Wes immediately step and he was like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa?
17:50
Speaker 5: Who told you what was gonna ever go as planned?
17:53
Speaker 5: And he and he took it and he had a
17:55
Speaker 5: moment where he was like he took a coachable moment
17:57
Speaker 5: and was like, look when we were filming screen like
18:03
Speaker 5: I guess the story goes like a few days before
18:05
Speaker 5: they got ready to film, like the day they're like
18:08
Speaker 5: seventy two hours out from filming. And if anybody knows
18:11
Speaker 5: this and I'm telling you a wrong story, please correct me.
18:12
Speaker 5: But this is my way of this is my understanding
18:14
Speaker 5: of how it went down. About seventy two hours thirty six,
18:17
Speaker 5: seventy two hours before they started filming. The high school
18:21
Speaker 5: that had signed off on everything that they were going
18:23
Speaker 5: to film at someone from the school board finally read
18:28
Speaker 5: the script like they had approved it, but no one
18:30
Speaker 5: read the script and then they read it and they're like, whoa,
18:34
Speaker 5: no way, we are not allowing this to be filmed
18:36
Speaker 5: with our high school, and they pulled they pulled out
18:39
Speaker 5: the high school, the location pulled out like thirty six
18:42
Speaker 5: seventy two hours before they were supposed to film, and
18:45
Speaker 5: they had to scramble and find a whole new whole.
18:49
Speaker 5: Like that's not an easy ask. That's not like, oh,
18:52
Speaker 5: we need another coffee shop on the street. Like that's
18:54
Speaker 5: a massive you know, anyone that's ever booked locations knows
18:58
Speaker 5: how the bigger their location. And though those are difficult things,
19:01
Speaker 5: there's a lot of people that have to sign off
19:03
Speaker 5: on that, and so a lot of work went into
19:06
Speaker 5: it and then all of a sudden, you know it
19:08
Speaker 5: Just that's how quickly things can change. And if you
19:11
Speaker 5: sit around and if you get worried, if you just
19:14
Speaker 5: if you focus on problems, you're done. If that's all
19:17
Speaker 5: that you focus on. If you are a person that
19:19
Speaker 5: only sees problems, you're going to get crushed. If you
19:22
Speaker 5: can be the person that sees solutions everywhere, opportunities everywhere,
19:27
Speaker 5: you know, possibilities. Now you're now you're in your adding
19:30
Speaker 5: to the winning success. Like now you can get into
19:32
Speaker 5: a thing where you're doing well. And I think that
19:34
Speaker 5: that's you know, that's something that you have to do,
19:38
Speaker 5: is really you know, I told this. I tell this
19:40
Speaker 5: story a lot.
19:41
Speaker 3: I had.
19:41
Speaker 5: One of my first bosses is an amazing executive producer
19:46
Speaker 5: named his name is Eli Holsman, and I love the guy.
19:49
Speaker 3: He's he's amazing.
19:51
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
19:57
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
20:00
Speaker 5: And I told the story earlier, and it's funny that
20:03
Speaker 5: I'm telling it again. But you know, I asked him
20:05
Speaker 5: when I was early in my career. I was probably
20:06
Speaker 5: twenty three years old, and I asked him, hey man,
20:08
Speaker 5: what is you know? Is there something of advice that
20:11
Speaker 5: you can give me? And he said, you know, just
20:13
Speaker 5: always being always bring solutions, don't bring problems. You know,
20:17
Speaker 5: if the car breaks down, don't come to me and
20:20
Speaker 5: say the car broke down. Come to me and say,
20:22
Speaker 5: hey man, the car broke down. But we have option
20:25
Speaker 5: A and we can either pay, you know, four hundred
20:27
Speaker 5: dollars to get another car out here. Option C is
20:30
Speaker 5: pay or Option B is you know, six hundred dollars
20:32
Speaker 5: to have somebody come out and fix it and it's
20:34
Speaker 5: going to take two hours. Or Option C is we
20:37
Speaker 5: just drive it into the La River. And then we
20:39
Speaker 5: never we act as it if it never happened, right,
20:41
Speaker 5: Like he always talked about solutions, solutions, solutions, and just
20:46
Speaker 5: that I mean that lesson has been monumental for me because, Yeah,
20:50
Speaker 5: the first instinct is when something goes bad is to
20:52
Speaker 5: want to shut down and get sad and angry and
20:55
Speaker 5: kick kick things, and you know, you want to blame someone,
20:59
Speaker 5: Like it's just human nature, Like we're all these little
21:02
Speaker 5: kids that now have grown up pants on, and so
21:05
Speaker 5: we want to get mad. But you know, now, I
21:07
Speaker 5: think that's the biggest thing for me is just always
21:09
Speaker 5: knowing like no matter how bad it.
21:11
Speaker 3: Gets, there's a way to get through it.
21:14
Speaker 5: And you got you have to be able to find
21:17
Speaker 5: the solution instead of focusing on the problem.
21:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's the art of problem solving.
21:23
Speaker 4: As you know I've been saying on the podcast before,
21:26
Speaker 4: is you know, how do you solve a problem without
21:28
Speaker 4: creating an equal or greater problem than the one you're
21:31
Speaker 4: trying to solve. And yeah, and being a problem solver
21:34
Speaker 4: rather than a problem spotter, you know, I mean you
21:36
Speaker 4: get those people on set, man where you hire them
21:39
Speaker 4: as crew and they come up to you and they say, hey, Philip,
21:43
Speaker 4: you know this this location fell through, the car got
21:45
Speaker 4: a flat tire.
21:46
Speaker 6: What should we do?
21:47
Speaker 4: And you're like, well, you're supposed to be here helping me, Yeah,
21:52
Speaker 4: let me come on.
21:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
21:55
Speaker 5: It's always a little frustrating at times because you you know,
21:59
Speaker 5: you I try to really let people, you know, you
22:02
Speaker 5: really empower You want to empower people.
22:05
Speaker 3: You know, you want to let people know that, you
22:08
Speaker 3: know what you act as if.
22:10
Speaker 5: I remember I had somebody tell me when I was
22:12
Speaker 5: young in my career it's like, yo, you got to
22:13
Speaker 5: act as if like if you don't do this, it's
22:16
Speaker 5: not going to get done.
22:17
Speaker 3: So what would you do?
22:18
Speaker 5: You know? And really, like I think most of us
22:22
Speaker 5: when we don't take that action, it's either a where
22:26
Speaker 5: we just don't care, right like we don't care about
22:29
Speaker 5: it and we're super you know, degap about it. We
22:32
Speaker 5: just don't care anymore, or we're afraid and we're afraid
22:35
Speaker 5: we'll make the wrong decision and we want somebody to
22:36
Speaker 5: back us up and we're you know, or so it's
22:39
Speaker 5: like almost you know.
22:40
Speaker 3: I remember somebody.
22:41
Speaker 5: Uh.
22:42
Speaker 3: I read it in a book once.
22:43
Speaker 5: Brendan Bouchard had this quote and it was like when
22:45
Speaker 5: action is required and a person doesn't act. At best,
22:51
Speaker 5: they're lazy and at the worst they're a coward.
22:55
Speaker 3: And it's like, man, like, I could.
22:58
Speaker 5: Use that for any life, but to make that to
23:01
Speaker 5: how do we relate that to set? It's like there
23:03
Speaker 5: are those times where it's like, if you're not willing
23:06
Speaker 5: to make a decision, you know, you're being.
23:09
Speaker 3: Lazy or you're being a coward. And I've had to
23:11
Speaker 3: do that with myself many times, and especially in as
23:15
Speaker 3: much as I tried not to be the guy that
23:16
Speaker 3: like hangs on money or finances and things like that,
23:19
Speaker 3: but there are times where I've stopped and been like, yo, dude,
23:23
Speaker 3: they're paying you a decent amount of money to make
23:25
Speaker 3: these decisions, like do it, like figure it out, like
23:28
Speaker 3: this is on you, Like you can't just you know,
23:31
Speaker 3: Like for me, it's like you're not a PA anymore.
23:33
Speaker 3: You don't get to just you know, sit there and
23:35
Speaker 3: yeah and do exactly what you're told. Like as a PA,
23:38
Speaker 3: that's what it is. Being a PA production assistant is
23:41
Speaker 3: all about.
23:43
Speaker 5: Be quiet, be friendly, smile, do everything that's asked of you,
23:47
Speaker 5: and kind of you know, stay out of the way,
23:49
Speaker 5: but be there and help as much as you're an
23:51
Speaker 5: extra set of hands when you start producing projects and
23:54
Speaker 5: directing projects and taking on greater responsibility, and the money
23:57
Speaker 5: is there and you're getting paid, and you have to
24:01
Speaker 5: be able to make a decision, you know. And it's
24:03
Speaker 5: like by sitting by and doing nothing or only, like
24:06
Speaker 5: you said, being the person that only brings up problems,
24:10
Speaker 5: you're you're not gonna be the person that that gets
24:13
Speaker 5: hired back or that gets a reputation of being the
24:16
Speaker 5: guy who can fix problems. And it's like, if you
24:19
Speaker 5: can be someone that fixes problems or sees problems and
24:22
Speaker 5: fixes them before they even happen, you know, like every
24:25
Speaker 5: firefighter would love to be there moments before the fire
24:28
Speaker 5: gets set, you know, because once it gets out of hand,
24:32
Speaker 5: then it's a lot of work. It's like, if you
24:34
Speaker 5: can be the person that notices and knows how to
24:36
Speaker 5: fix things early on before it becomes this raging, you know, fire,
24:41
Speaker 5: then you're gonna keep getting work.
24:43
Speaker 3: And that's what it comes out.
24:44
Speaker 5: You're gonna keep getting work, and you're gonna make projects
24:46
Speaker 5: more fun and enjoyable to work on. Yeah, I think, yeah,
24:52
Speaker 5: your point was great, And then I decided to talk
24:54
Speaker 5: for fifteen minutes.
24:55
Speaker 6: So no, no, it's all good. It's all good, Phillips.
24:58
Speaker 4: And I want to ask you to about how, you know,
25:00
Speaker 4: how you know you got started in all this, because
25:02
Speaker 4: you know you've mentioned Wes Craven, you mentioned working with
25:06
Speaker 4: Phil Lot. So I wanted to ask you know, you
25:09
Speaker 4: grew up in Michigan and you moved out to LA
25:12
Speaker 4: you know, so so at what age did you decide,
25:14
Speaker 4: you know, to move out to LA.
25:16
Speaker 3: Uh. Yeah, so I was about nine, and you know,
25:20
Speaker 3: I'm that kid, dude.
25:21
Speaker 5: I'm I grew up ten minutes from downtown Detroit, on
25:23
Speaker 5: the side just outside of Southwest Detroit. And uh I've
25:26
Speaker 5: always been that that Midwest kid, just in love with everything, movies,
25:31
Speaker 5: everything California. You know, I joke that I wanted to
25:35
Speaker 5: be I wanted to live the movie Clueless, like I legit.
25:38
Speaker 3: Wanted to be like that guy.
25:41
Speaker 5: I wanted to you know, I grew up and watching
25:43
Speaker 5: that movie with my sister and I just loved it.
25:45
Speaker 5: And you know, I wrote a paper when I was
25:48
Speaker 5: like thirteen about moving to California, and so I.
25:50
Speaker 3: Think that dream has always been there.
25:52
Speaker 5: But for me, you know, I got you know, media
25:53
Speaker 5: productions and creating and you know, I did a little
25:56
Speaker 5: bit of theater when I was younger, and so I
25:59
Speaker 5: was just always around creating entertainment. And so when I
26:03
Speaker 5: went I went to Michigan State University after I graduated
26:06
Speaker 5: from high school, and you know, went out started, you know,
26:09
Speaker 5: did the business thing for a while, because obviously I
26:12
Speaker 5: was terrified of putting all my eggs in one basket
26:14
Speaker 5: of entertainment.
26:15
Speaker 3: But I moved.
26:16
Speaker 5: I ended up messing up my GPA pretty pretty bad.
26:20
Speaker 5: I joined a fraternity, started drinking and partying, and that
26:24
Speaker 5: became a whole nother that's a whole nother story for
26:26
Speaker 5: a different podcast. And but you know what, things kind
26:30
Speaker 5: of you know, ended up where I screwed my GPA
26:32
Speaker 5: up so much at Michigan State that I was gonna
26:36
Speaker 5: it was going to take me a few more semesters
26:37
Speaker 5: to get.
26:37
Speaker 3: Into the business school. So I said, you know what,
26:40
Speaker 3: I had already.
26:40
Speaker 5: Started taking my film classes, my film and TV and radio,
26:44
Speaker 5: and I loved that stuff. And that was where I
26:45
Speaker 5: felt like I really came alive and really enjoyed it.
26:48
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm going to go after this and
26:49
Speaker 3: see what I can do.
26:50
Speaker 5: And you know, I was, I was lucky enough to
26:52
Speaker 5: be able to do a couple of internships and really
26:55
Speaker 5: get some things finished. And I was able to finish
26:57
Speaker 5: college's semester early at State and.
27:00
Speaker 3: Was getting ready to move out to LA.
27:03
Speaker 5: Excuse me, I was getting you know, getting ready to
27:05
Speaker 5: move out to Los Angeles. And eleven days before I
27:08
Speaker 5: moved to LA, I got popped for a DUI and
27:11
Speaker 5: it drastically affected my ability to move to California. So
27:14
Speaker 5: it took me a year to kind of get everything square,
27:16
Speaker 5: you know, squared away with the courts and kind of
27:19
Speaker 5: my path with you know, alcohol abuse and all that stuff.
27:22
Speaker 3: That's a whole another story, but so I ended up
27:25
Speaker 3: going to UH.
27:26
Speaker 5: I stayed in Michigan for a little while I worked
27:28
Speaker 5: at a radio station, and then when I was twenty three,
27:34
Speaker 5: I was twenty three is when I moved out to
27:35
Speaker 5: Los Angeles. I had never been west of Wisconsin.
27:39
Speaker 3: Didn't really know anyone. There were a couple of.
27:41
Speaker 5: Kids that went from my high school that were you know,
27:44
Speaker 5: five or six years older. So I did have one
27:47
Speaker 5: or two people that I could at least kind of
27:48
Speaker 5: ask some sort of advice on, but I really didn't
27:50
Speaker 5: know anything. I didn't know what I was doing. Didn't
27:53
Speaker 5: really even know if I wanted to do film TV.
27:56
Speaker 5: I was still in the mindset that, you know, twenty
27:59
Speaker 5: people got in room and came up with an idea
28:01
Speaker 5: and then they worked into you know, made it.
28:03
Speaker 1: Like.
28:03
Speaker 5: I didn't understand the industry at all. I did not
28:06
Speaker 5: understand how segmented things were. I didn't know how different
28:10
Speaker 5: it was to work in TV versus you know, TV
28:14
Speaker 5: versus commercial versus movies. I didn't even know reality TV. Like,
28:18
Speaker 5: I didn't even really know what reality TV was. You know,
28:21
Speaker 5: I'd seen the Real World and some of that stuff,
28:24
Speaker 5: but I didn't even realize how different and segmented a
28:27
Speaker 5: lot of the industry was. So I get to California
28:30
Speaker 5: and I move out. I don't know what in the
28:32
Speaker 5: hell I'm doing. I get a job working at vitamin Shop.
28:35
Speaker 5: I get a job working at Pacsun. I was doing
28:39
Speaker 5: extra work. I was doing. You know, I've been a
28:41
Speaker 5: DJ since I was seventeen, So I was djaying, and
28:44
Speaker 5: I'm just.
28:45
Speaker 3: Doing all this stuff.
28:46
Speaker 5: I'm doing clerical work in office buildings and just trying
28:49
Speaker 5: anything to just make rent and make it work. And
28:52
Speaker 5: I'm you know, I'm sitting here one day, I remember
28:54
Speaker 5: calling my dad and I'm like, I have I've got
28:57
Speaker 5: a four year degree from a big ten universe and
29:00
Speaker 5: I'm sitting here folding little kids board shorts and selling
29:04
Speaker 5: old women.
29:04
Speaker 3: Met a musal like what is going on in my life?
29:07
Speaker 3: Like I'm never gonna get hired. And this was right
29:10
Speaker 3: in two thousand.
29:10
Speaker 5: And nine, right in the middle of the writer's strike
29:12
Speaker 5: out here in Los Angeles. So work was tough, and
29:17
Speaker 5: I remember going I would just go door to door
29:19
Speaker 5: at places, and I would go door to door at
29:20
Speaker 5: production companies trying to meet them. I'd go to work,
29:23
Speaker 5: I'd go to the gym, I'd go play basketball, and
29:26
Speaker 5: then I would rinse and repeat. And that was my
29:28
Speaker 5: cycle of what I would do. And I wish I
29:30
Speaker 5: could tell you that one of those production companies called
29:32
Speaker 5: and wanted to hire me. I wish I could say
29:34
Speaker 5: that one of my job interviews went well, I met
29:38
Speaker 5: a guy playing basketball and I was having a really
29:42
Speaker 5: good game, and I was pissing them off because I
29:45
Speaker 5: kept scoring.
29:48
Speaker 3: We'll be right.
29:48
Speaker 2: Back after a word from our sponsor, and now back
29:54
Speaker 2: to the show.
29:57
Speaker 5: So we were battling back and forth, back and forth,
29:59
Speaker 5: back and forth, the game ends, we start talking. He
30:02
Speaker 5: ends up being a Midwest kid. We start talking a
30:04
Speaker 5: little bit.
30:05
Speaker 3: He's getting ready to get promoted as soon as he
30:08
Speaker 3: found somebody to take his assistant job, and he brings
30:14
Speaker 3: me into interview.
30:16
Speaker 5: I get the interview and I start, and that was
30:19
Speaker 5: my very first job, was from a guy working or
30:23
Speaker 5: playing basketball at the park. And that guy's name is
30:26
Speaker 5: Kevin Bartel. He's a great friend of mine still. He
30:29
Speaker 5: runs a production company now here in Los Angeles, and
30:33
Speaker 5: you know, he's he's such a rock star. He's amazing,
30:36
Speaker 5: and like we met playing basketball, and like that's how
30:38
Speaker 5: it was for me and I started. I got that
30:41
Speaker 5: first job, and the job was me taking the assistant
30:44
Speaker 5: job for the guy Eli that I spoke about earlier.
30:46
Speaker 5: And you know the first show we were doing when
30:49
Speaker 5: I started, they were they had just finished post on
30:53
Speaker 5: the first episode the first season of a show called
30:56
Speaker 5: Undercover Boss on CBS, and which was a massive show
31:01
Speaker 5: that at the time no one had heard of. So
31:03
Speaker 5: I was like working at a production company no one
31:05
Speaker 5: had heard of, on a show no one had ever
31:06
Speaker 5: heard of.
31:07
Speaker 3: And then it blew up and it was like that
31:09
Speaker 3: was my first job. I just got you know. But
31:12
Speaker 3: the thing I.
31:12
Speaker 5: Always tell kids, like, I'll try to mentor kids from
31:15
Speaker 5: Michigan State and I go, hey, look, I can't tell
31:17
Speaker 5: you to go play basketball every day and that's where
31:20
Speaker 5: it's gonna be. But what I can say is if
31:24
Speaker 5: if it wouldn't have been, if it wouldn't have been Kevin,
31:27
Speaker 5: if I wouldn't have met Kevin on the basketball court,
31:30
Speaker 5: I would have met somebody at the gym, or I
31:33
Speaker 5: would have met someone at an alumni event or one
31:38
Speaker 5: of those production companies I would have win would have
31:40
Speaker 5: eventually worked out.
31:42
Speaker 3: It's like you don't know, you don't always know what
31:44
Speaker 3: path it's going to open. You don't know what door
31:46
Speaker 3: is going to open. But that's why you just bang
31:50
Speaker 3: on a ton of doors and you just you know.
31:52
Speaker 3: I always tell people the best thing you can do
31:54
Speaker 3: is just let people know what you want to do,
31:57
Speaker 3: you know, let them know that you're just hungry and
31:59
Speaker 3: ready and you don't know.
32:01
Speaker 5: Yeah, hey, I don't have a ton of experience, but
32:03
Speaker 5: I'm excited to learn. I'm ready to get into it.
32:05
Speaker 5: How do we make this whole thing happen? I'm in
32:08
Speaker 5: and I think that that the attitude I don't know
32:11
Speaker 5: when I hire pas, I hire on attitudes more than
32:13
Speaker 5: I hire on your experience, you know, like what's your
32:17
Speaker 5: resume going to tell me what that you are really
32:20
Speaker 5: good at? Like getting water like that, or that you're
32:23
Speaker 5: gonna get coffee or you can lift fifty pounds over
32:25
Speaker 5: your head, like what. It's more about your your personality
32:29
Speaker 5: and how you like what do I see out of you?
32:32
Speaker 3: Are you hungry? Do you want to learn? Are you
32:34
Speaker 3: ready to really get in this thing?
32:36
Speaker 5: Or you just like ah, I'm in la whatever, Like
32:39
Speaker 5: you know, my buddy, My buddy works on the show,
32:42
Speaker 5: so I guess I can work here. Like I want
32:44
Speaker 5: people that are excited, you know, because I know how
32:46
Speaker 5: I was when I was starting out. I know how
32:49
Speaker 5: eager and excited I was, so yeah, maybe selfishly, like I.
32:53
Speaker 3: Want to hire that. I want to hire, you know,
32:56
Speaker 3: you know, people.
32:57
Speaker 5: That are excited to be around this because I love it,
33:01
Speaker 5: you know, I love it so much. I want to
33:03
Speaker 5: be around other people that love it. And it's like
33:05
Speaker 5: there's so many people that do care and want to
33:08
Speaker 5: make entertainment and they're passionate about it that like, I
33:11
Speaker 5: don't want to hire people that are just there looking
33:13
Speaker 5: at it as a paycheck, you know.
33:15
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah you can.
33:16
Speaker 4: You can teach somebody how to do a job, but
33:17
Speaker 4: you can't teach them how to be a good person.
33:20
Speaker 3: Totally.
33:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, which which is something I've learned too, because I
33:23
Speaker 4: made the mistake one time.
33:24
Speaker 6: Phil is Shrek You phil a Phillip?
33:26
Speaker 5: Whish you prefer Hey, whatever feels right, man, I can
33:29
Speaker 5: jump back into you know what. People ask me that
33:31
Speaker 5: all the time, and I joke like when I hit thirty,
33:34
Speaker 5: I was like, I guess I'm.
33:35
Speaker 3: Philip now, you know. Or somebody somebody told me the
33:37
Speaker 3: other day on set.
33:38
Speaker 5: They were like, well once somebody like once someone is
33:41
Speaker 5: your superior, you call them Philip. And I go, I
33:43
Speaker 5: don't know how this is going, Like I or I'll say,
33:46
Speaker 5: if you're from the UK, you have to call me
33:48
Speaker 5: Philip because it just sounds better in that accent. But no, man,
33:51
Speaker 5: phil phill up, whatever is easiest, whatever works, man, It's
33:54
Speaker 5: all good.
33:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
33:55
Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely Philip sounds better with a British accent. I
33:58
Speaker 6: will admit that.
33:59
Speaker 4: But everything sounds better with the British accent.
34:02
Speaker 6: Uh So.
34:04
Speaker 4: On set, you know, and I have everyone call me,
34:06
Speaker 4: I have everyone call me Bullus because that's everything. All
34:09
Speaker 4: my friends call me Bullish everywhere and and and they're
34:13
Speaker 4: just like Bullis. I'm like, yeah, just call me Bullis.
34:15
Speaker 4: Don't call me Dave or David. Uh that's fine, and
34:18
Speaker 4: just call me Bullus.
34:19
Speaker 5: But because it's a it's a strong name, you know
34:22
Speaker 5: what I'm saying, Like, it's a it's a great it's
34:24
Speaker 5: a great last name. What's the what's the background, what's
34:26
Speaker 5: the what's your family's heritage?
34:28
Speaker 6: Uh?
34:29
Speaker 4: So, on my mom's side it's uh Swedish and uh Irish,
34:37
Speaker 4: and on my dad's side it's uh English, particularly from Wales,
34:44
Speaker 4: and that's actually where the last name comes from.
34:45
Speaker 6: By the way, it's English.
34:47
Speaker 4: Uh I means someone who tends bulls and uh And
34:50
Speaker 4: if you can believe it or not, I don't know
34:52
Speaker 4: if you've ever seen me, but I actually have a
34:55
Speaker 4: My my dad's grandmother was one hundred percent Native American,
35:01
Speaker 4: and so if you look at me, I look like
35:03
Speaker 4: the whitest guy on the planet. So but like technically speaking,
35:06
Speaker 4: I'm like ten to fifteen percent Cherokee. Oh no way, yeah,
35:10
Speaker 4: but I don't look like it at all. I think
35:12
Speaker 4: the I look much like an Irish English guy.
35:18
Speaker 3: That's cool, man. I love that. I always love I
35:20
Speaker 3: don't know why. I'm always fascinated.
35:22
Speaker 5: With with that type of stuff like where, you know,
35:25
Speaker 5: like heritage and things like that.
35:27
Speaker 3: I'm I'm fifty percent. I'm fifty percent.
35:30
Speaker 5: Well we're all kind of a mix of things, but
35:32
Speaker 5: I only claim too, and so yeah, I'm I'm Polish
35:36
Speaker 5: and I'm Romanian and on my this this past year,
35:40
Speaker 5: I took a trip and I did a little mini
35:43
Speaker 5: DJ tour through Europe. But while I was doing that,
35:45
Speaker 5: I also got a chance to do I went to
35:49
Speaker 5: meet some family in Poland for the first time. In Warsaw, Poland,
35:52
Speaker 5: met some cousins and got to meet them for the
35:54
Speaker 5: first time in person.
35:56
Speaker 3: And then I went to Romania and I went.
35:59
Speaker 5: To the Little Villages, the two little villages in Transylvania,
36:03
Speaker 5: which I guess I didn't even realize that was a
36:04
Speaker 5: real place.
36:05
Speaker 3: I kind of thought it was just made up.
36:07
Speaker 5: But so I went to Transylvania, where my great grandparents
36:10
Speaker 5: were born and raised before they moved to the US,
36:12
Speaker 5: and man, it was just cool, Like you know, I
36:15
Speaker 5: had one of those moments where you know what I
36:16
Speaker 5: was getting all emotional, you know, just because I had
36:18
Speaker 5: been there, you know, I had been on the road
36:20
Speaker 5: for like, you know, three weeks, four weeks, and I'm
36:23
Speaker 5: on the road that connected the two little villages, you know,
36:27
Speaker 5: and I'm like, oh my goodness, like I can you know,
36:30
Speaker 5: for the first time in my life, like my great
36:32
Speaker 5: grandparents no longer seemed like these old dead people, but
36:35
Speaker 5: they were these like oh man, I can picture the
36:37
Speaker 5: like the nineteen year old version of like or the
36:40
Speaker 5: nineteen year old great grandpa grandfather walking this road to
36:44
Speaker 5: go see this woman he just met, and like, I
36:46
Speaker 5: don't know, it gave me such a like I love
36:49
Speaker 5: that history and it's just really it's I don't know.
36:52
Speaker 5: I guess I'm getting I'm getting more emotional in my
36:55
Speaker 5: as I'm getting older.
36:56
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it which is really cool. I love.
36:57
Speaker 5: I love that idea of like understanding where where we
37:01
Speaker 5: come from and in the history of our families and whatnot.
37:03
Speaker 5: We've totally gotten off the topic of production, but you
37:06
Speaker 5: know that's what happens with me sometimes.
37:08
Speaker 4: No, no, it's all good. I have a tendency to
37:10
Speaker 4: do that to people. People come on this podcast all
37:12
Speaker 4: the time. Philip and they're just like, Dave, I just
37:14
Speaker 4: have a tendency to ramble when I'm talking to you.
37:16
Speaker 4: I don't know what it is. I go, that's a
37:19
Speaker 4: good sign. I take that as a compliment, a very
37:21
Speaker 4: high compliment.
37:23
Speaker 3: Totally. Yeah.
37:24
Speaker 4: But but yeah, you know, you always want to know
37:26
Speaker 4: where you come from eventually, you know. And it's a
37:28
Speaker 4: funny story because I actually was going to reach out
37:31
Speaker 4: to some of my relatives in Wales and then I
37:34
Speaker 4: was just watching this British show called Black Books, and
37:38
Speaker 4: Black Books was kind of like a it wasn't really
37:40
Speaker 4: a hit, but it was. It was a fantastic show.
37:43
Speaker 4: And this one character named Fran wants to get in
37:46
Speaker 4: touch with all her relatives, right. She's like, I've never
37:48
Speaker 4: seen these people before. I just want to, you know,
37:51
Speaker 4: connect with my family. And all they did was they
37:54
Speaker 4: basically used her as like some kind of like pack
37:57
Speaker 4: mule and they were like, oh wow. They were like,
37:59
Speaker 4: oh you have a call, we need to ride somewhere.
38:01
Speaker 4: All you have money, we need some money. Oh you
38:03
Speaker 4: have a house we need to move in. It's like
38:05
Speaker 4: and she goes, I'm so sorry I ever did this.
38:06
Speaker 4: And I just kind of thought to myself, what if
38:08
Speaker 4: I reached out to some relatives and it's all I
38:10
Speaker 4: did was basically try to like use me for anything
38:12
Speaker 4: they could.
38:14
Speaker 3: Oh man, I think it's worth risking.
38:16
Speaker 5: You never know, but yeah, that that's crazy, that would
38:19
Speaker 5: be well, man, what's well, what's the one show The
38:22
Speaker 5: Sneaky Peete that's on? What is that on Netflix or
38:26
Speaker 5: on I don't know what channels on, but it's that idea.
38:30
Speaker 5: Rabisi is the lead and is Yeah, that idea that he,
38:35
Speaker 5: you know, came in and he convinces this family that
38:38
Speaker 5: he's someone else.
38:39
Speaker 3: And that's that was scripted, but that was actually there
38:42
Speaker 3: was a show. I don't know if you ever saw it.
38:43
Speaker 3: My my buddy Phil Lott. It's funny, we bring him up.
38:46
Speaker 5: He actually did a he did a documentary a few
38:49
Speaker 5: years ago called Imposter and if you guys haven't seen it,
38:52
Speaker 5: it's it is fascinating and it's about this guy who
38:57
Speaker 5: you know, convinces this family that he is this missing
39:00
Speaker 5: child from years and years and years ago, and he
39:05
Speaker 5: gets into this family and it's the whole story of
39:10
Speaker 5: him like infiltrating their lives and why they think that
39:14
Speaker 5: they want it. Oh man, it's just it's really cool
39:17
Speaker 5: like you're watching it.
39:19
Speaker 3: You know.
39:19
Speaker 5: I love documentaries that I watch and I go, this
39:21
Speaker 5: is There's no way this is real, you know, like
39:25
Speaker 5: how did this happen?
39:27
Speaker 3: Like I think, you know, the two strongest. I'm sure
39:30
Speaker 3: there's many more.
39:31
Speaker 5: I'm you know, I'm oversimplifying, but like when I watch documentaries,
39:35
Speaker 5: the two amazing things that I always notice is like, hey,
39:38
Speaker 5: if I'm sitting there and I'm going, whoa, there's no
39:41
Speaker 5: way this is real.
39:42
Speaker 3: I'm waiting for them to say, this is bullshit. How
39:44
Speaker 3: is this even possible?
39:46
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
39:52
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
39:55
Speaker 3: That always catches my attention.
39:58
Speaker 5: And then I think it's so amazing in documentaries when
40:01
Speaker 5: it's totally just right time, right to you know, right time,
40:03
Speaker 5: right place. You know, those documentaries that start out about
40:07
Speaker 5: one thing and then something crazy happens in just by chance,
40:11
Speaker 5: in the time that they were filming, and then it's
40:14
Speaker 5: and then all of a sudden, you're you're capturing all
40:16
Speaker 5: these other things, like have you have you seen have
40:19
Speaker 5: you been watching Flint Town on Netflix at all?
40:23
Speaker 4: No?
40:23
Speaker 5: I haven't, so Flint Town it's all about Flint and
40:26
Speaker 5: obviously the Flint water crisis and all of those things.
40:29
Speaker 3: But you know, the fascinating thing.
40:31
Speaker 5: Was just they were there when they went there to
40:34
Speaker 5: kind of do the Flint water crisis and what was
40:36
Speaker 5: happening in Flint with the water, and then but they
40:40
Speaker 5: were embedded with like the police force, the Flint Police Force,
40:43
Speaker 5: and then while they're there was when we started having
40:46
Speaker 5: all of these all of these cases coming up about
40:48
Speaker 5: police brutality and you know, some of the deaths and
40:51
Speaker 5: things like that, and so it was so you know,
40:54
Speaker 5: to be able to be there documenting police officers as
40:58
Speaker 5: they are experiencing and as they're learning about these things
41:01
Speaker 5: and seeing their reactions and then being able to compare
41:04
Speaker 5: that to how we were reacting as you know, as
41:07
Speaker 5: as people in society.
41:09
Speaker 3: It was just it really was.
41:11
Speaker 5: Fascinating because it's one of those things where you're like
41:13
Speaker 5: they weren't late to the story, you know, like they
41:16
Speaker 5: weren't trying to catch up, like they were catching it
41:19
Speaker 5: as it was happening. And I think that's what makes
41:22
Speaker 5: I don't know for me, that's what makes a lot
41:23
Speaker 5: of that stuff really really exciting.
41:26
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's I love movies and TV shows were
41:31
Speaker 4: you know, characters like a pathological liar, like like American Psycho.
41:35
Speaker 6: That that's a great example.
41:38
Speaker 4: You know, even stuff like you know some of the
41:40
Speaker 4: other stuff that's come out where you just find like
41:42
Speaker 4: the character is just a you know, a just a complete,
41:45
Speaker 4: you know, pathological or compulsive liar. And yeah, the TV
41:49
Speaker 4: show what was it called? It wasn't I do you
41:51
Speaker 4: want to say firefly but that wasn't right. But there
41:53
Speaker 4: was a TV show where the character basically took the
41:58
Speaker 4: role of a of a of a share if he
42:00
Speaker 4: took over his identity. It's oh Christ, what the hell
42:04
Speaker 4: is it? I forget it? But uh, basically he and
42:06
Speaker 4: the banshee, that's what it's called banshee. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay.
42:10
Speaker 4: So so he took over his whole life and basically
42:13
Speaker 4: said I'm the new sheriff and this and that. So
42:14
Speaker 4: that that that uh that was actually pretty cool. Uh uh,
42:17
Speaker 4: you know, pretty good as well. But you know a
42:20
Speaker 4: lot of these shows now there's so many different channels
42:23
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. There's YouTube, there's Netflix, there's Hulu,
42:25
Speaker 4: there's all this, all these channels. You know, this is
42:28
Speaker 4: the golden age of TV. But it's also incredibly segregated
42:32
Speaker 4: on all these different channels.
42:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's crazy, there's so much.
42:38
Speaker 5: There's so much going on, and I think it's you know,
42:40
Speaker 5: we joke and we've been joking for the last couple
42:43
Speaker 5: of years. Like anybody that tells you they know what's
42:45
Speaker 5: going on is full of shit.
42:47
Speaker 7: But what William Gold said, right, Yeah, I mean it's
42:52
Speaker 7: it's it's tough, man, I mean it's you know, I
42:54
Speaker 7: will say, like I've I've been lucky to work on
42:56
Speaker 7: on some you know, some Netflix shows and some Tube
42:59
Speaker 7: Bread shows.
43:00
Speaker 3: We're actually I'm really excited. I'm gonna humble brag here
43:03
Speaker 3: for a second.
43:04
Speaker 5: One of the shows that I that I helped produce
43:06
Speaker 5: is up for a Daytime Emmy right now, So we
43:09
Speaker 5: find out at the end of the month if we
43:11
Speaker 5: won this Daytime Emmy, which would be just really cool
43:14
Speaker 5: to be you know, and it's for outstanding educational programming.
43:17
Speaker 5: So it's like to be able to We did a
43:19
Speaker 5: show called Minefield, which was all about science and psychology
43:22
Speaker 5: with a with a great guy named Michael Stevens who
43:25
Speaker 5: runs a YouTube channel called v Sauce, and it was
43:28
Speaker 5: like to be able to create a show that is
43:32
Speaker 5: educational and entertaining to where you know that you're to
43:35
Speaker 5: know that you're reaching kids and people in general. But
43:39
Speaker 5: he has, you know, a younger audience, like to know
43:41
Speaker 5: you're being able to reach and educate kids.
43:44
Speaker 3: That are hungry to learn. You know.
43:46
Speaker 5: I think there's this, there's this stereotype that kids these
43:49
Speaker 5: days don't want to learn and all they want to
43:51
Speaker 5: do is play on their social media and I mean
43:53
Speaker 5: our channel shows and there's a lot of there's a
43:56
Speaker 5: lot of educational programming out there on YouTube that kids
44:01
Speaker 5: can't get enough of. And I think it's really encouraging
44:04
Speaker 5: to see so many kids that are interested in science
44:07
Speaker 5: and interested in math and they want to learn and
44:09
Speaker 5: they want to figure things out in psychology.
44:12
Speaker 3: And I think it's really it's really special. So I digress.
44:17
Speaker 5: But yeah, with all of the networks, it's hard, man,
44:21
Speaker 5: It's really hard to know what's gonna survive, you know,
44:25
Speaker 5: because you know, the Internet has created a nice, beautiful
44:29
Speaker 5: new place where it doesn't need to be twenty two
44:32
Speaker 5: minutes exactly, it doesn't need to be forty four.
44:35
Speaker 3: You don't have to have the act breakdown at the
44:37
Speaker 3: exact spot for the commercial break.
44:40
Speaker 5: You don't need to you know networks, you know online,
44:43
Speaker 5: they don't have to guarantee twenty four hours of programming
44:46
Speaker 5: every single day like a lot of the.
44:48
Speaker 3: Stuff do on cable.
44:49
Speaker 5: So it's opening the doors for some flexibility. And there's
44:54
Speaker 5: gonna be a lot of shakeup, and there's gonna be
44:56
Speaker 5: some winners, and there's gonna be some losers, and it's
45:00
Speaker 5: gonna take a little bit more time for us to
45:02
Speaker 5: figure out how everything is gonna shake out. But I
45:07
Speaker 5: think there's it's like anything right, like, you can either
45:10
Speaker 5: look at the problem of it or you get out
45:12
Speaker 5: in front of it and see the possibilities and the
45:15
Speaker 5: opportunities and know that we're at a space now where
45:20
Speaker 5: you want if you want to create something, if you
45:22
Speaker 5: really want to create something.
45:24
Speaker 3: There's no excuse.
45:26
Speaker 5: There's really no excuse for not creating in this day
45:29
Speaker 5: and age, with the accessibility to cameras, the accessibility to
45:33
Speaker 5: editing to music, if you want to be there is
45:37
Speaker 5: no there now. It's difficult to be seen, that's true.
45:41
Speaker 5: It's there's a lot of clutter, there's a lot of noise.
45:44
Speaker 5: It is not the easiest thing in the world to
45:46
Speaker 5: get attention. But if you have are if you're feeling,
45:50
Speaker 5: if you have creativity inside of you that you want
45:52
Speaker 5: to get out that you don't and you feel like
45:56
Speaker 5: you don't have the resources, you are not utilizing your
45:59
Speaker 5: re sources because there is so much to get out there,
46:03
Speaker 5: and if you want to be creative, there's no excuse
46:06
Speaker 5: for not being creative in this day and age.
46:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like, hey man, this podcast is something I
46:11
Speaker 4: started to, uh, just to be creative. You know, I
46:14
Speaker 4: started this a few years ago just to be creative.
46:17
Speaker 4: And the barrier to entry to starting a podcast is.
46:20
Speaker 6: Literally so low.
46:21
Speaker 3: Now you can so low.
46:22
Speaker 6: You could start one on.
46:23
Speaker 4: Your phone with with like a pod, with the podbeing app,
46:26
Speaker 4: which is why my host they actually, if you launch
46:28
Speaker 4: the app, you can start recording a podcast even through
46:31
Speaker 4: the app, so don't even need another app for that,
46:34
Speaker 4: and you can edit it right there and.
46:35
Speaker 6: Then upload it and there you go.
46:38
Speaker 5: Which and I think that's why that's why, you know,
46:42
Speaker 5: as we start to wrap up here and we bring
46:44
Speaker 5: it back home, I think that's why the power of
46:47
Speaker 5: the story is so important because now where you do
46:52
Speaker 5: have a lot of competition because the barriers of entry
46:56
Speaker 5: into a YouTube channel into a podcast, in to a
47:00
Speaker 5: short film. The barriers of entry are so low, but
47:05
Speaker 5: people still have a high expectation of content. So if
47:09
Speaker 5: you are making, you know, you can buy a two
47:12
Speaker 5: hundred dollars gimbal for your iPhone that you already have
47:16
Speaker 5: in your pocket, and you can buy a little recording
47:18
Speaker 5: device for the audio, and you can make a pretty
47:20
Speaker 5: damn good video for three hundred bucks. If you've got
47:24
Speaker 5: the right people that are willing to help and work
47:26
Speaker 5: on it, and then you edit, you can do some
47:27
Speaker 5: really great stuff. But if you do not have a story,
47:33
Speaker 5: if you don't have a compelling reason why anyone should
47:38
Speaker 5: even listen or watch or care about your project, it's
47:42
Speaker 5: going to be very difficult to get any type of
47:46
Speaker 5: visibility with it. So I think that's why I you
47:50
Speaker 5: know a lot of the kids, and I see that
47:51
Speaker 5: now a lot of kids coming out of school or
47:54
Speaker 5: certain schools or whatever.
47:55
Speaker 3: They they'll send me their stuff, and I'm like, cool,
47:59
Speaker 3: it looks great.
48:00
Speaker 5: You understand that if you shoot it in high speed
48:03
Speaker 5: and you're shooting sixty one hundred and twenty frames per
48:06
Speaker 5: second and you slow it down behind some very epic
48:10
Speaker 5: feeling motivational music that it's gonna look cool and look cinematic.
48:15
Speaker 3: Yes, you nailed that, But what do you want me
48:19
Speaker 3: to do now?
48:20
Speaker 5: You know? What is your call to action? Do you
48:23
Speaker 5: want me to open my wallet and pay you money?
48:26
Speaker 5: Do you want me to call my mother and tell
48:29
Speaker 5: her I love her because I haven't talked to her?
48:30
Speaker 3: Do you want me to.
48:31
Speaker 5: Cry and miss an X? What in the hell do
48:34
Speaker 5: you want me to feel now? And I think that
48:37
Speaker 5: that is something that we as storytellers, as filmmakers, at television,
48:41
Speaker 5: show creators, podcasters, we have to understand, like what is
48:45
Speaker 5: it that we want to what? How are we serving?
48:48
Speaker 5: That's what I'll say, How are we serving our viewer?
48:52
Speaker 5: And if we don't have an answer for that, if
48:55
Speaker 5: we don't know what our viewer is going to get
48:57
Speaker 5: out of what we're giving them, then we probably don't
49:00
Speaker 5: have a strong product, you know. And it's and then
49:03
Speaker 5: we've just we've we've created we've created content that doesn't
49:08
Speaker 5: that's never going to really resonate with anybody because it.
49:11
Speaker 3: We didn't think about who was going to consume it.
49:14
Speaker 3: We didn't even care.
49:15
Speaker 5: Uh So I think now nowadays we have to be
49:18
Speaker 5: that much more uh, disciplined and intentional about understanding what
49:25
Speaker 5: we want to create and who we want to create
49:28
Speaker 5: it for, and then how are we going to do
49:30
Speaker 5: it with a great, powerful story and then executing that
49:35
Speaker 5: because it's not it's just not enough anymore to just
49:38
Speaker 5: throw it up online and hope it gets found.
49:40
Speaker 2: You know, we'll be right back after a word from
49:44
Speaker 2: our sponsor and now back to the show.
49:51
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's very true.
49:53
Speaker 4: I think those days of kind of like throwing that
49:55
Speaker 4: hell Mary passer or or pretty much I don't want
49:58
Speaker 4: to say they're over. I don't want be definitive, but
50:01
Speaker 4: it's a lot harder now because because there's just there's
50:04
Speaker 4: just so much content being made, you know, and there's
50:06
Speaker 4: just so much stuff being on there that the probability
50:09
Speaker 4: of anything like that happening is just so low now.
50:12
Speaker 6: It's probably less than one percent.
50:14
Speaker 4: But uh, you know, I know where we're winding down, Phil, So,
50:17
Speaker 4: just in closing, is there anything that you wanted to
50:20
Speaker 4: wanted to say this sort of put a period at
50:22
Speaker 4: the end of this whole conversation.
50:25
Speaker 5: You know, I guess the first thing I'll you know,
50:27
Speaker 5: the the annoying social media plug. I'll say you know,
50:30
Speaker 5: you guys can find me on on you know, Facebook, Instagram,
50:33
Speaker 5: all that stuff.
50:34
Speaker 3: At Phillip Andrew l A. I have an email account.
50:38
Speaker 5: I'd love for you guys to email me if you
50:40
Speaker 5: have any specific questions, whether that's wanting to work together
50:43
Speaker 5: on a project or if you're if you're listening to
50:45
Speaker 5: this then you're young and you're still in school and
50:47
Speaker 5: you just want some advice. I'm always willing to help
50:50
Speaker 5: as much as possible, So reach out. It's Philip Andrew
50:54
Speaker 5: l A at gmail dot com.
50:56
Speaker 3: Uh So, please connect with me. I'd love to.
50:58
Speaker 5: I would love to talk with you guys any way
51:00
Speaker 5: that I can and help out anyway.
51:02
Speaker 3: I think, my lad, you.
51:04
Speaker 5: Know, what would be my what would be my my
51:07
Speaker 5: takeaway from all of this is, you know, it's if
51:13
Speaker 5: you're listening to this in your you know, I think
51:16
Speaker 5: we already talked about some stuff for people that are
51:18
Speaker 5: younger in their careers about getting started and how to
51:21
Speaker 5: do that, and we talked a lot about that. If
51:24
Speaker 5: you're listening to this and you're interested in production or
51:27
Speaker 5: TV or film or podcasting or any any type of
51:30
Speaker 5: that creative stuff, and you are struggling to either get
51:36
Speaker 5: things going, or maybe your career isn't exactly where you
51:39
Speaker 5: want it to be, or you want to be doing more.
51:41
Speaker 5: You know, I always love this phrase. You know, it's
51:44
Speaker 5: like it's never too late to be what you might
51:46
Speaker 5: have been. And we get caught up in our heads
51:49
Speaker 5: about where we're supposed to be in life and what
51:52
Speaker 5: success we should have had at this point, how much
51:55
Speaker 5: money we should be. We have these expectations, and the
51:58
Speaker 5: truth is, you know, we're just all we have is today,
52:03
Speaker 5: and that's all that we have.
52:04
Speaker 3: And we don't know what's coming tomorrow. We don't know
52:06
Speaker 3: what's gonna go. You know what's gonna happen, how life
52:09
Speaker 3: is going to shake out, So go for it.
52:13
Speaker 5: Just make a decision, Make a decision of what you
52:17
Speaker 5: really want. You know, if you want to if you
52:21
Speaker 5: haven't written that script, if you haven't worked on any
52:23
Speaker 5: film set, if you haven't worked on one in three years,
52:26
Speaker 5: if you know what, no matter how big or small
52:29
Speaker 5: your your situation is, all I'll say.
52:33
Speaker 3: Is just get moving on it.
52:35
Speaker 5: It's It's all A big thing is just making the
52:39
Speaker 5: decision of what you want to do. And then also
52:43
Speaker 5: one one thing I'd love to say is like write
52:45
Speaker 5: it down and write it down.
52:48
Speaker 3: Write down that goal. If it's to.
52:51
Speaker 5: Make x amount more money next year, if it's just
52:54
Speaker 5: to have x amount of episodes of your podcast done,
52:57
Speaker 5: if it's to create something, whatever your goal is.
53:01
Speaker 3: Be definitive.
53:03
Speaker 5: You know, you've got to have some clarity for your
53:06
Speaker 5: for the purpose, and then what's the action involved, you know,
53:10
Speaker 5: And so I think that's really important is figure out
53:13
Speaker 5: what you want and write it down and then start
53:17
Speaker 5: taking the steps towards it so that you're able to
53:19
Speaker 5: achieve that thing. And it's never too late. It's never
53:23
Speaker 5: too late to be what you might have been, and
53:26
Speaker 5: you're never you're never too young for something, you're never
53:29
Speaker 5: too old for something. It all had like, those are
53:32
Speaker 5: just lies that you're allowing that are preventing you from
53:35
Speaker 5: really getting into stuff.
53:36
Speaker 3: So so go after it.
53:38
Speaker 5: If you guys are creative, and number one, I appreciate
53:40
Speaker 5: you guys, if you're still listening this long to me,
53:42
Speaker 5: go on and on, I.
53:43
Speaker 3: Greatly appreciate it. And I really hope that you'll send
53:45
Speaker 3: me an email and let me know.
53:47
Speaker 5: But yeah, just keep going, figure it out, be very
53:51
Speaker 5: intentional about what you want, write it down, and then
53:55
Speaker 5: get out there and start making it happen.
53:58
Speaker 4: And that is an excellent way to end the interview.
54:01
Speaker 4: On that note, everybody, I will link to everything that
54:04
Speaker 4: Phil and I talked about in the show notes at
54:06
Speaker 4: Dave Bullus dot com. Twitter it's at dB podcast and
54:10
Speaker 4: my personal Twitter is at Dave Underscore Bullets and Phil,
54:14
Speaker 4: I want to say thank you so much for coming on.
54:16
Speaker 6: Man again. We were two strangers whoment on the internet
54:20
Speaker 6: and all back right.
54:22
Speaker 5: I love it, No, I greatly. I greatly appreciate it.
54:25
Speaker 5: I'm only going to call you Bullus from here on out.
54:27
Speaker 3: I love it. It's a great last name. I'm Sewing.
54:31
Speaker 3: I'm a big fan now, man.
54:32
Speaker 5: So you let me know any way that I can
54:34
Speaker 5: ever help out, any way I ever can be of
54:37
Speaker 5: service to you, my friend, like feel free, always reach out.
54:41
Speaker 5: We are now friends bonded through the interwebs, and I
54:45
Speaker 5: greatly appreciate you letting me come on and hear my voice.
54:48
Speaker 2: So I want to thank Dave so much for doing
54:52
Speaker 2: such a great job on this episode. If you want
54:54
Speaker 2: to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
54:56
Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
55:00
Speaker 2: Forward slash four zero seven. Thank you so much for
55:02
Speaker 2: listening to guys as always, keep on writing no matter what.
55:06
Speaker 3: I'll talk to you soon.
55:07
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
55:11
Speaker 1: Screenwriting dot tv.