Latest / Morrow Marriage | Disrupting Divorce / AI #2: She Fired 4 Counselors, Now ChatGPT Is Her Therapist | The 'NEW' Marriage | Ep489

Transcript

AI #2: She Fired 4 Counselors, Now ChatGPT Is Her Therapist | The 'NEW' Marriage | Ep489 · Morrow Marriage | Disrupting Divorce

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: She fired four counselors and now ChatGPT is her therapist.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Labeling your partner, and I'm gonna go with narcissist.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Submitting to your husband.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Triggers versus cognitive distortions, guys.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, this might trigger you and put you into your own distortion.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: 90% of marriages fail.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: She fired four counselors and now ChatGPT is her therapist.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Morrow Marriage, our podcast, and today we're going to discuss this a little bit deeper.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even want to go anywhere yet, because Catherine was like, come on.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: So give you, give me your first thought.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what my thought was, besides you tried therapists, and not all therapists are good, so go ahead, fire them.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: You tried four times, didn't get the answer you wanted, and now you're feeding information into Chat GPT or Gemini to get the validation that you need because you didn't get it somewhere else.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was hoping that's where you're going.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly where I was going.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly right.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: What about the other four people?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they must be wrong.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: All four of them?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because this woman that on her Reddit post- I don't know who this is.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Reddit post again.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: So glad I'm not on the Reddit.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so this woman, so actually, I'm sorry, I think it was the husband talking about the woman, if I recall correctly.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, so it was like this woman goes to the therapist, and it always, when the therapist goes to accountability on her side.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know the details, I don't give a shit.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: But let's say it was like, um, you're very defensive.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to work on your defensiveness, Sarah.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And she spins it back to see, I've never seen and heard.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's the exact line.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: My wife had no idea.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's the exact line that was put out to why she fired the therapist each time, four times.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: What did Catherine just say?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I said.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: She said You didn't get the answer that you wanted, so you went to AI, which you can feed information to get validated because you get to twist the story with something that doesn't know emotional intelligence.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: You just give it the facts that you want it to have and it validates you.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, all the four therapists who saw you in person and know your actual situation are wrong.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: That is not correct.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's use some practical examples so that you can understand this.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you were to go to a uh therapist or a coach, if they're a good therapist, and let's say your partner is having an affair, the good therapist is going to talk about something called a cascade of betrayal.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to walk you through, you know, what mistakes you uh what happened that what you could have done that contributed to this ultimate betrayal.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: But because you didn't come up with that, guys, don't blame us.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't blame us.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I have 42 things, not 24.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: We have the tailspin of betrayal for ours, and it's bigger than affairs.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, welcome to moral marriage.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: But listen, if we look at that, the victim, let's pretend that's Sarah, the one we're just making a fake name.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: But let's just say Sarah is like, yeah, but he cheated, and now I'm not being seen and heard.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, and now you're gonna go to the validation on the AI.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: What is the AI gonna do?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: AI is trained to give you validation.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, what a terrible experience that you're going through.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: The betrayal is one of the most common.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna start spewing off all the fucking bullshit things about how you feel so bad and how blah blah blah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it may try to hold you accountable, but the moment you push back with AI, it's gonna say, You're right.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for reminding me of that.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're absolutely right.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Gemini, the guy.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's go to some more examples, okay?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just say you feel alone in your marriage, and you wish your husband, yeah, you're grateful for his providership, but you're not really worried about him providing.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, I feel alone.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm managing the kids, the home, the decisions, everything, and then I have to manage his mood and have sex with them, blah, blah, blah.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: AI isn't gonna hold you accountable at all.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: AI is not gonna say at all, yeah, your your husband works hard.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Have you thought about the 80 hours in the house that you wanted?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Have you thought about how what it feels like to not have sex?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, AI is gonna be like, oh, that is a terrible position.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna give you tools to put in boundaries for sex, for example.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is unbelievable how fast the tools go.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is why when I challenge AI, I'm like, yeah, but did you think about this?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: It immediately starts to think and and go to a different direction.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time I'm done, six to twelve minutes later, it's you've convinced it the exact opposite of what it told you six to twelve minutes ago.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: In the beginning, to the point where I'll even say to AI, then why did you tell me that in the beginning?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's the answer?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's the real answer?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: If it's like, why did you tell me that in the beginning?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's the real answer, Gemini?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: First it was this, now I convinced you that it's this.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: What is the answer?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I went live like, I don't know, 10 days ago, and I did this with one, and it was about like my wife wants a divorce and I don't.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we went through this thing, and I think it was 17 minutes.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: It might have been 13, I can't remember.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it was 17 minutes live.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And by the end, I said, Are you literally just telling me what I taught you as a marriage coach?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it wouldn't even acknowledge it.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: It wouldn't.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: It would try to like talk about my frustration.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it sounds like you're very frustrated because I gave you one answer and I sound like I'm contradicting myself, blah, blah.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sarah now has everything to feel seen and heard and not deal with her situation anymore.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see the problem here?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: You guys cannot use AI in replace of somebody who understands.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I think that you need to understand that, of course, we're gonna go against therapy because we coach through experience, but we even use therapeutic modality.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're like, okay, well, fine, thanks, Cass, I'm gonna go back to my therapist.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to think about this.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: You could have people like us who have a experience, lived experience, proof with over 8,000 people.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're gathering video after video after video.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why we didn't start this for five years, but anyway.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have somebody like my wife and I who use therapeutic modality, she's hyper-trained in a lot of them.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: What's the thing you're you're just about to be masters in?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, human services counseling, marriage and family therapy, and board-certified human services practitioner.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not the same thing.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not therapists, we're not doing psychotherapy, but we are highly trained in various aspects of communication, conflict management, all kinds of stuff.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: AI is not trained in that stuff.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you said I need you to be, and you picked John and Julie Gottman, the I think the most world-renowned marriage therapist, it still can only go off of what it teaches.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, John and Julie Gottman, you just heard that, you're like, oh fuck, at least I'm gonna use AI the right way.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get them to act in everything they know about John and Julie.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is great, this is right.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you still have to be both partners in, which is not the case in 99% of your marriages, even if you both say you're in.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: You don't even know how to use AI if you're using it, is my point.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, and what you're getting when you do it.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, you could even say, I want AI to be Cass and Catherine.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I have it, my own AI, that's trained on everything, and it's like 98% like what I would say, but it's still wrong sometimes.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the stuff we have on Catherine, because we we haven't programmed her the same way, there's not as much information down on paper, it's all in this beautiful brain of hers.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So how in the fuck can you get seeing that's the other thing, even if something mine's trained really well, but if you have a unique story, a very different situation, you need the experience of like 10 examples or perspectives of multiple people who understand all this to give you the plan.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we do with our team.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: We know about our people.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I coach the men, Catherine coaches the men sometimes.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I coach the women sometimes, but she coaches them.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Our team is involved.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: You guys just pay attention to how silly you're being right now.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to get validation, trying to find the way you want it to go, trying to figure out the best way to move yourself forward.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Pay attention because you're gonna start to see a new pattern here with AI.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the new pattern is going to be this that people are gonna realize that I tried AI and things got worse.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's get real here.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: One more part to this series, and it's a big one.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: See you next film.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I said I think I said see you next film.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: See you next film.