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Podcast: Behind the Scenes: All Saints Sunday Nov 1; (Rev 7:9-17) · North Raleigh United Methodist Church Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Good day and welcome to North Raleigh United Methodist Church behind the scenes podcast, where we sit down weekly and talk about this week's scripture and sermon.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Kevin Van Hall.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I serve as a moderator.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Joining me today is one of the senior pastors here at North Raleigh, Laura Johnson.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Laura.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Kevin.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for coming.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Glad to be here.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Glad to have you.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a while.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: It has.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: It has.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: We've had I was talking to Kevin last week, the scheduling difficulties for a couple of weeks, but we were able to finish James discussion on James last podcast, last week.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: He preached about wisdom.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wisdom that comes from above.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it led us into this coming Sunday, which is November 1st, is All Saints Sunday.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: So this is really not a new series that we're going to be talking about today.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is just a one-time occurrence that happens every year.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite Sundays of the year.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, most Sundays are my favorite, but I especially find All Saints to be a very moving day.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So All Saints, typically in the Methodist Church, is the first Sunday after Halloween.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And but it but the church as a whole, it is on November 1st.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: It just this year it happens to fall, November 1st happens to fall on Sunday, which is great.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Coincide.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is where it's All Saints Day for us.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: The Catholic Church, the original church, didn't necessarily view it that way.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll talk about the background a little bit in just a minute.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: But that's uh purpose of this podcast is uh a little bit a deeper dive, an explanation of what maybe All Saints Sunday is, what the sermon might be about, and give you a better expectation when you come into the service on on Sunday morning.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, we'll answer all your questions before you show up.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Doubtful.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's we are talking about revelation.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So well, there's the good part of revelations and the bad part of revelations.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is a good part.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is a good part.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is it's it's not all a doom and gloom.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: There is some part of uh people being saved and good things happening.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're gonna talk about.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, All Saints Sunday, a little bit more about uh the background of the tradition of where it came from.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um but how about a word of prayer?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's pray.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Lord, we ask that you would open our hearts and minds as we ponder your scriptures and as our uh folks listening hear you speaking to them today.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Might we be encouraged by the saints who have gone before us, and might we take courage in the the promises that we find in the book of Revelation.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: In Christ's name we pray.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the celebration of All Saints Sunday uh came about back in the early days, fourth, fifth century, and it was in memorance of all the martyrs that had gone before.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: It has since evolved.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Catholic Church has turned it into the saints as in those who are above and beyond holy and have already gone to heaven that intercede on our behalf.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the Protestant and particular or Methodist point of view is a little bit different than that, is it not?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have official sainthood like the Catholic or Episcopal tradition does, where there are certain criteria that you have to meet in order to be accepted or deemed a saint.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, that usually happens after they have passed away.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: In our tradition, we believe that the saints are all those who have died in Christ, of all those who have been part of God's kingdom in their living, that they lived faithful lives, that they confessed Jesus.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so for us, sainthood is not, you know, it's it's a lot of the ordinary saints, of the people who are never going to have a building or a scholarship fund named after them, but lived in in such a way that they sh they shared the light of Christ.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So back to the early tradition of the church, it was usually actually celebrated around May.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it was for all the martyrs that were crucified or persecuted under Roman rule to remember them, to lift them up, the early members of the church.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: It evolved and that got moved to uh November 1st around 6th, 7th, I think, 7th century actually.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then in 10th century, it went through a different change.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you all saints uh uh Sunday or All Saints Day is on November 1.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the eve of that is Halloween.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of merged into the pagan way of looking at things and Halloween, and that's where we get Halloween, but on November 2nd is All Souls Day.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if everyone out there is familiar with All Souls Day.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're familiar with All Souls Day?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: So in the Catholic tradition, uh not all souls go to uh heaven right away, do they?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's a little thing called purgatory, it's where there's a cleansing or uh I don't know, purifying process is a better way of saying where all souls will go there and then the saints will move on into heaven versus all saints.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wesleyan tradition, Methodist Church does not believe that.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, we we we do not find scriptural evidence for a sense of purgatory.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Life is purgatory enough in a lot of ways, right?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um no, so we uh our understanding is that when you are when you are connected to Christ through the Holy Spirit, you're part of the sainthood.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we still celebrate like Catholic Church, just a little bit differently.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I will say um All Hallows Eve is still a place in many Protestant churches where martyrs are remembered.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so Duke Chapel, which is a Protestant place, for all of you who are not Duke fans, this is not about sports, so you can listen.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, it's gonna be okay.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: But Duke Chapel offers an amazing All Hallows Eve service on Halloween night.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually like nine or ten.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I haven't been able to go since we've had children because it's too late.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: But one day we'll go back again and it's candlelit, and it's led by the choir singing by candle, and it's a service that remembers martyrs, people who have died for their faith, not just Catholic martyrs, but martyrs in all traditions.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And every year they they talk about different martyrs, and it's a really beautiful service.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not only Catholics that remember the martyrs, but it it is a part of the this tradition as well.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the tradition is morphed so often, uh Latin America as well as South America.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Very much of an important holiday in the sense that they want to remember the family members that have passed, will go to the cemeteries that night, that's right, clean the gravesites, that's right, light a candle, candlelight service, and then this is where the whole ghosts and spirits come from because you're in the cemetery and you're remembering, and it's at nighttime.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is how things kind of changed into things.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where we had to start knocking on doors and asking for candy came from, but uh maybe someone else can't.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not complaining.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Someone else can can tell us about that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: But we're coming at it from the uh from the church's point of view.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're talking about how it's turned into modern day, but we're gonna be reading about Revelations, which is a lot about Judgment Day, and we're gonna be in chapter seven.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell Well, so Revelation is apocalyptic literature.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Apocalyptic literature is is a genre of ancient text, and its goal basically the idea behind apocalyptic literature is that what's happening in the world in front of us is the reality in which we live, but behind that reality is a spiritual reality of God versus forces of evil.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so apocalyptic literature tries to use symbolism and very cryptic language to peel back that veil between our reality and the spiritual forces at war so that we can understand what's happening and how God will always be victorious.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's hard to understand, and that's on purpose.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's cryptic, it's symbolic, and this was written at the end of the first century during a time of horrific persecution, and it was written to that people to give them courage and hope in the midst of their trials while they were being killed in horrific ways for many, you know, for Jesus by the emperor and by all sorts of people.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so this book is um, yes, it's about judgment, but it's mostly about how people who are experiencing tribulation can find hope in a God who is victorious over all, even when all signs point to the contrary, which they were at that time.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: At that time, it was not clear that God was doing anything for the Christians because they were suffering mightily.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: But revelation was meant to help them see the bigger picture of how God is is involved and how God is saving them from it.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell And there's a punishment involved with all the evil and the wicked.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, yes, absolutely.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is well, so a final.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you saw apocalyptic, it's in the Catholic Bible, it is actually called the Apocalypse.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the other names for it.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: We uh in the Protestant Bible it is called Revelations.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was revealed to John.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell That's right.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we can argue, is it John from the the John that we're thinking or a different John?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, that's also up to scholarly debate, way above my pay grade.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you can give some insight on that part, but who I will tell you, we went to Patmos a couple years ago where John received these revelations, and they definitely believe it was the Apostle John who that that is they were adamant about that.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's probably the one of the reasons why it made it into the canon and into our Bible because there was a uh I read that there's there was a huge debate about it before it was actually accepted because of all of the uh language and symbolism and what it meant.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: A little mystic in the sense sometimes.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like I highly recommend reading Revelation alongside a reputable guide, because there is a lot out there that is making all sorts of conjectures and has misled people about Revelation.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you want to talk about reputable guides, you just come talk to me and I will happily give you some suggestions of how to read Revelation.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she's gonna reforce Laura's gonna reinforce right now Revelations chapter seven, uh, verses nine through seventeen.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: All right, this is John speaking.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: After this, I looked, and there was a great crowd that no one could number.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: They were from every nation, tribe, people, and language.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: They were standing before the throne and before the lamb.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: They wore right white robes and held palm branches in their hands.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: They cried out with a loud voice, Victory belongs to our God, who sits on the throne and to the Lamb.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: All the angels stood in a circle around the throne, and around the elders and the four living creatures.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: They fell face down before the throne and worshiped God, saying, Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and always.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Then one of the elders said to me, Who are these people wearing white robes, and where do they come from?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I said to him, Sir, you know.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Then he said to me, These people have come out of the great hardship.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: They have washed their robes and made them white in the lamb's blood.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is the reason they are before God's throne.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: They worship him day and night in his temple, and the one seated on the throne will shelter them.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: They won't hunger or thirst any more.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: No sun or scorching heat will beep down on them, because the lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: He will lead them to the springs of life-giving water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a reward for those, I guess, who were the faithful, uh wearing robes of white.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is this heaven?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is this uh portrayal?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is this what we think of as heaven?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: That n never hunger, never thirst, uh, no reason to be sad, wipe away every tear under the God's protection.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's we hear that same language echoed at the end of Revelation 21 when John describes the new heaven, the new earth, the new creation that God will make where God's kingdom will fully reign.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: New Jerusalem will come in.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: New Jerusalem.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is the exact same language.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is highly, again, all of this is highly symbolic.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what one of the things we can take from this is that in the the next life, the the ones who we see gathered around the throne are the ones who have, what is it, come out of the great ordeal or come out of the great hardship or the great tribulation, depending on your Bible translation.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so these are the ones who have survived life and died, survived life as best they can as intact with God's family, and then died and are now in victory.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is meant to be a picture of victory.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: So John's giving like peeling away the curtain between heaven and earth, where the people are being snatched up and thrown to the wolves, quite literally, but they can see into heaven and say, God is still victorious, and we're facing this tribulation, but it will not last forever.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: We have this promise, this next life, this victory that will be ours for eternity.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think what we're getting is this promise that when you are a part of that new life, that eternal life, that next life, there won't be the kind of suffering.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's this language here of God being the shepherd or the lamb.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about some symbolism.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: First, the lamb is what Jesus is referred to.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: That goes back to the idea of the Passover lamb back all the way in Exodus when they were trying to get out from under Pharaoh.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Moses had them slaughter the lamb.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: The blood of the lamb covered the doorposts and saved that household from death, or at least the firstborn from death.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is the blood of the lamb saved them from death.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so Jesus, as the lamb, was slaughtered and killed.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And his blood, when it's put over the doorposts of our heart, saves us from death, eternal death, right?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's that symbolism.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then the language of in verse 12, it talks about how the one who's seated on the throne will shelter them.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: That word for shelter literally means to like put a tent over them.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same kind of language used to describe what God did when the Israelites were wandering the wilderness and were in danger and were vulnerable and needed protection.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: This idea that God is going to cover them with safety and protection and shelter them, so like with God's own very body.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so we get this image where they're victorious and they are no longer in danger of facing any of the troubles that are a part of the earthly life.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because in this new kingdom, this new reality, this new life, God is sheltering them from all evil.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So they are enclosed in like the safeness of God's home.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll ask more questions in symbolism.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, who are the elders and the four living creatures?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've been taught the elders are the or that could be the apostles' twelve or the leaders of the under, you know, being the twelve tribes of man, is early church leaders.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Who are the elders?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And who might we understand we've we read probably about the four beasts or the four creatures.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't I did not read up enough to give you full commentary on those symbolisms, so I don't really have a good answer for you today on that one.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: But what do you what have you read?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I've read pretty much.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: The elders could be re represent those that are the it could be the apostles, and that number of twelve comes up many, many times, being the elders of the leaders of the twelve tribes of men.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um going back.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And i we could try to trace all of our roots back to the twelve tribes.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: The Jewish nation does, the Hebrew nation does.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, exactly.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Traces all their lineage back to one you're be you belong to one of those tribes, period.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the four beasts are the things that uh were part of the um trials, tribulations, that things that came upon, all the pestilence and things that came upon the earth.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then but they all answer to God.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: They are there just like uh Job the Leviathan.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Did you create Leviathan?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, who can hold him back?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: He answers to me.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it is that part where everyone is now answering to God and no more of this um doing running amok doing your own thing.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: At large and in charge.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I also have the uh word salvation belongs to our God where you have victory.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: So some interpretate that it's a final battle, and others just you're finally saved.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that word salvation can mean like deliverance, rescue.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots of different ways.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't have an exact word that translates from the Greek word in here.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have English word that exactly translates from that.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so salvation, victory, deliverance, rescue, all of those are appropriate words to be used there.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that also helps open up our own sense of interpretation of how does this which word is it?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: What is how does that help you change how you understand this?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh victory over death, salvation.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Victory over evil.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Evil evil.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: It can be Salvation is being rescued from the plight of what they were experiencing, you know, the persecution.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: They were rescued from that into this glorious heavenly home.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um where we just sit around and worship God all day long.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, play harps and sing hymns.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that's important to name because I think people will see this and they're like, well, that's what heaven is like.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds kind of boring.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not what I want to do.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what I would say to them is this is this is a highly symbolic description.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: This and it's just a glimpse into what John saw.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so this isn't necessarily telling us exactly what life is like in heaven.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do I think we're all sitting around stringing harps all head all eternity?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: I do not.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: I do not think that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I read this as a a image or a vision, not necessarily the eternal reality, if that makes sense.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I you can see it how in their time and and period how life was tough at hard working in the fields under the scorching sun, having to go to the well to draw water, um, and it's dry, and you're trying to feed your animals.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so the symbolism here goes on that the sun will not be beaten upon you with scorching heat.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we would lead them to springs of living water that will just spring up.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and and basically that symbolism, everything will be provided for.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it it draws back all the way to Psalm 23 and then John 10, when David is the first one who says, God is my shepherd, and then in the gospels, Jesus says, I'm the good shepherd, and it's that same symbolism of the good shepherd will be there to provide all your needs, to lead you into all the green pastures.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yep as well.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And every tear will be wiped away.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people, different religions, Protestant religions, we talked about Catholic believing in purgatory.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the different Protestants' religions that when we die from what if Jesus said, Today you will be with me in paradise, you go to heaven exactly right away.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Others, you go to sleep until that final coming of Jesus and that judgment day, and then you get a new body.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So is there do you see anything in that, any perspective on uh beliefs or Methodists way of interpreting?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do we go right to heaven or are we asleep until Jesus comes back?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: We uh don't offer a definitive answer to that, because we could see it going scripture sounds like it goes both ways, and it's a mystery too big to Have a full answer to.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So which people don't always like that answer.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's the safe answer.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: But um but we don't like we don't have a to my knowledge, the United Methodist Church does not have a doctrine that says when you die you immediately go to heaven, or when you die, you go to soul sleep.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is up to interpretation.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: But we do believe that there is eternal life, and Jesus will shepherd you from this life into the next, whenever and however that works.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, this and final shepherd being the the last part of symbolism, I was going to say you already talked about the lamb will be at the center and the throne will be their shepherd.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So King of Kings, Jesus will be there on the throne as well.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think cut thinking about All Saint Sunday, I I can imagine when this was written families were grieving immensely because I mean the persecution was so bad that people were being slaughtered and they would be taken to the Colosseum and fed to the pools, or they would be lit up on fire as a lampstand for the town.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was gruesome and it was awful just because of their faith.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the families who had lost their loved ones and were grieving immensely, I can imagine that this was a very comforting vision.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like for us, it sounds a little cryptic and maybe a little like foreign or scary, but to me it's a similar thing of when I talk to someone who has just lost a loved one who is suffering terribly with an illness or chronic pain or whatever it is.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the phrase I often hear from people is, well, I'm sad and I will miss them, but I'm relieved because I know they're in they're in a better place.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that's what this vision is meant to offer us.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a picture of the better place.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's meant to give us that comfort of even if your loved one left you too soon, for whatever reason, we know that they are in this better place.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a source of comfort and hope for us.
• 24:19
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, speaking again on uh All Saints of Sunday, what can we expect on the for the service for this Sunday?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um there will be a couple of different pieces to it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: The first is that Dave Sineski just built us these beautiful vote of candle holders for All Saints Sunday that will allow everybody to come forward and light a candle, a small vote of candle, in memory of someone that they have loved and lost.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: It could have been that they passed away this year, it could be they've passed away 20 years ago.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the people you hold in your heart that you want to remember as those who have gone before you into this better place and those who have been saints in your life that have shown you a lot about God.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the ones that will remember with the candles.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then later in the service, when we do communion, we will we will say the names aloud and light candles for our church members who have passed in the last calendar year.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So since since all saints last year.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think there's 12 of them.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: I should double check that number, but I think there's about 12 of them, and we'll we'll say those names during communion, and family members are invited to come of those people who have passed, church members who have passed, are invited to come and light a candle during communion in memory of those church members who have died in the past year.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a remember, it's a dual, dual part.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: We'd just be just a reading of the and of lighting a candle, those that pass this past year within this past year, but you're gonna also offer a remembrance to anybody that's lost a family member that wants to come and light a candle.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: So there'll be an opportunity to to come and and light a candle and uh in their memory.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what else is uh anything else special uh gonna happen this uh Sunday?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't there some new equipment or some other new stuff in the church?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, I think that's all that's in worship.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, our new sound system is currently being uh installed and all the kinks worked out, and I'm getting my microphone all hooked up on Thursday, and so by Sunday we will have our new speakers working, the new soundboard will be working, and the new microphones will be in, and so um we we will not have issues with my microphone popping in and out.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Lord help us.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I yes, I I was gonna add a little patience for the new people.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin, uh I will be on the back in the corner and working the new soundboard, trying to be familiar with it.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so patience just in case it is a first-time service that everything doesn't go perfectly smooth.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: We are trying to tune it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be tuned with an empty church, and then we're gonna fill it with people, and it might be a little different.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone's gonna one person's gonna love it, another person's gonna say, I I don't.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll we're gonna tweak it.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it'll be a little bit more.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Laura's very optimistic that it'll all be perfectly set up.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wishful, thinking that it would be.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it'll be better for my mic, especially.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you have been having issues.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: It has been dropping out quite a bit.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm looking forward to it.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh our the team, the company that is doing this install have been working 12 hour days to get this 12 plus hour days, honestly, to get this in place for us without disrupting Sunday services.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so grateful to Waveform for all they've done.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell But there are some new things in the gonna happen in the church as well.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: What else is gonna happen?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: There will be screens, and I'm not entirely sure when those will be completed.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard of the update on that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're getting the sound stuff in first, but there will be screens that will help us display liturgy and uh will allow us to offer greater hospitality for f people who are unfamiliar with traditional worship.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: You'll see where the construction for that is, but you will see that it's also not complete.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: The screens are not in yet.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can uh a little patience on that as we continue to work, and the company's working very hard.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: So next week when we meet again, Kevin will be here.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna start a new series.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: We are.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Money, money, money, money.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's called All You Can.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's based on one of John Wesley's most famous sermons um called All You Can, where he talked about our relationship with money.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: How does our relationship with money impact our spiritual health?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so the three different weeks we'll be talking following exactly Wesley's sermon.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna read Wesley's sermon.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna riff off of it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um exactly, but it's um earn all you can, save all you can, and give all you can.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Those were Wesley's principles when it came to having spiritual health with money.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're gonna talk about those three principles earning, saving, and giving.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: That will be a new three-part series.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: But this Sunday will be All Saints Sunday.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully you can come and join us, see the new equipment, and light a candle.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can't, you can find uh the sermons are online along with the podcast, and then there's live streaming opportunity for that as well.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Last remark, Slara.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, glad to be here.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Always fun to talk with you, Kevin.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad I enjoy it as well.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope everyone out there enjoys it as well.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So until next week, may the love of Christ be with you always.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: So goodbye, everyone.