Latest / CEOs and ABCs / The Person Running AI at E.L.F. Beauty Has a Non-Negotiable For Her Team and Her Daughter: Never Outsource Your Thinking

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The Person Running AI at E.L.F. Beauty Has a Non-Negotiable For Her Team and Her Daughter: Never Outsource Your Thinking · CEOs and ABCs

• 0:00
  Jen Kattula: Never outsource your thinking. This is the one non negotiable. The person running AI at E L F Beauty has for her team and for her daughter. My name is Jen Katula and I am co hosting with Kevin Rice. And our guest today is ekta Chopra, chief AI and technology officer at Elf Beauty, who was named one of Time's 2026 Executives of the Year in Tech and Data. Today she's going to explain why AI adoption succeeds only when employees lead it and why the same approach works at home too. So where does the person running AI at ELF draw the line for her own daughter?
• 0:37
  Kevin Rice: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting, wins and fails and everything in between. I'm your host, Kevin Rice. Here's today's episode. Ekta, welcome to CEOs and ABC. Jen and I are very impressed by what you've accomplished in your career and what you've done while raising a daughter. Could you start by telling us a little bit about your current role and what your family life looks like today?
• 1:03
  Ekta Chopra: Sure. I'm Ekta Chopra. I'm the chief technology and AI officer for one of the best brands ever, E L F Beauty. I like to say I've been here 10 years and nine months. I oversee all aspects of technology and sort of innovation. AI, all of that is part of it, but I have to keep it secured as well. So security and risk management is part of that as well. And in my personal life, I have a little daughter. She. Well, she's no longer little. She is going to be 12. She's a volleyball player, a Roblox developer and an amazing anime artist and a wonderful husband who's my life partner.
• 1:42
  Kevin Rice: Before elf, in more of the formative years as you were establishing yourself in your career, you were leading technology at a retail store, Charming Charlie. That organization grew significantly under your leadership from a dozen stores to like over a hundred.
• 1:59
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah.
• 2:00
  Kevin Rice: During that really hypergrowth phase, what did you learn during that period that maybe you brought forward into your future career?
• 2:08
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, I would say one thing that I learned at Charming Charlie because I before Charming Charlie, I was with private equity, that private equity bought Charming Charlie. And from private equity, where I went in front of board members to actually being at the, at the organization to understand how did we need to grow it. At Charming Charlie, I became an operator and of a organization that was going through like fast growth and the decision making that you have to make and almost like giving up perfection and this idea of continuous improvement, and I would say that was probably the biggest lesson that you can get. Something almost there, but keep like things that you need to evolve or it's like building blocks that you need to change when the growth reaches the next level. So having an architecture that allows you to move fast, but then also scale back if you need to as well, that's the biggest lesson that I took from there to elf. Before that, I was also in a foundation for a while as well on the investment side. So that's the biggest lesson that I've taken.
• 3:16
  Jen Kattula: And actor, I didn't say this at the top, but I need to tell you, I am a repeat customer of Elf Cosmetics. Doing it right now, you know, and I didn't do this just because we were going to be on a podcast together. It's been happening.
• 3:33
  Ekta Chopra: I full face ELF as well, just so you know.
• 3:35
  Jen Kattula: Okay. Amazing. The quality of the cosmetics are superb and I applaud you for your role in them. And to that end, you joined elf as the VP of digital in 2016, but this year you stepped into this new AI leadership role. Yeah. I'm curious about how the way you lead has changed during these two moments and what you might have needed to let go of in the previous role or maybe think about how to manage differently as you expanded your responsibilities.
• 4:11
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah. So when I first joined Elf, I was a team of one. I still remember my day one, I walked in and the office manager gave me my laptop and said, oh, you're in technology, right? Like, set it up. And I was like, this is where we're getting started. So I still remember that day. So it was a day where I had to roll up my sleeves and I had to dig in, dig into a fact that blue screen systems had to be taken to cloud. We were about to go public nine months after that and I had to get the company ready. So for that, those nine months, 54 projects that were highly complex, from moving warehouses to ERP systems to, you name it, it was very hands on. It was nonstop making sure that I had my eye on every single glass ball so it doesn't drop and we can hit the target fast forward. I still manage a few glass balls because I have to make sure they don't fall. But I have an amazing team. I have built an amazing team of almost 150 people globally that are executing with quality and speed. And the hallmark is zero business disruption. And that everybody in the team sort of lives that. But do it with bold disruption, but with a kind heart as well, so when I think about those kind hearts that have to play in action when it's a really big project and you're working nonstop, oftentimes I find myself ordering food for my team. I'll show up in that ballroom and make sure that they're fed and they're taking a break and they're doing those things. So I think it is that bold disruption continues. The kind heart does come into play and I think the zero disruption mentality to make sure that we are in a high growth company where growth cannot stop, but the engine has to continually be built in with new parts, essentially.
• 6:08
  Kevin Rice: Earlier you mentioned being an operator as opposed to just being a technologist, I assume.
• 6:14
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah.
• 6:14
  Kevin Rice: Can you elaborate on that thinking and help maybe somebody who is more in a technology role understand how to transition into an operator role? Because when I think of operators like that's what I was. I was a president of a consultancy, I was systems living in spreadsheets, managing org structures. But how does a technologist bring that kind of thinking into their world and how does that make them better?
• 6:37
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, I will say put yourself in your customer's shoes, number one. So leading technology doesn't mean that I'm just supporting the internal elves or the internal people. I'm serving that end consumer, that community that loves our brand and has a connection with our brand. So first and foremost I think technologists have to pivot from hey, I manage the plumbing to I touch every consumer and their experience of how I show up as a brand. That mindset, that pivot. I think oftentimes technologists don't end up doing because they're so stuck in setting up for scale and building for the future. But that building of the future has to be with intention and with purpose. So I would say that's the pivot. And when you do that, everything that you're doing, you question it. Well, is this the right thing to do for the consumer? Elf is for every eye, lip and face. So when I build a product, am I serving every eye, lip and face and the unique needs of those consumers? So I think that's the lens, that's the difference.
• 7:47
  Kevin Rice: You're the chief technology and AI officer at Elf Beauty and you're also a mother who cares deeply and prioritizes your relationship with your daughter and integrating those a big career present parent. It takes a lot of intentionality and presence. What do those two words mean to you? Intentionality and presence. And what does that look like for you in day to day life?
• 8:08
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, you know, you have to be Very diligent about knowing. I personally do this every day. It's like where. What are those moments that I never want to miss with my daughter or my family or my mom? And what are those moments I have to be present at work because I'm leading a big project or it's a big deliverable. So intentionality and sort of making an effort to stick to that I think is also very important because things do come up. So in my personal life, I know between sort of 6pm and 8pm I try to avoid anything, any call. My team knows me. If they need me, they can always reach me. But they know that's my time with my daughter Anya. I call her Anu with love and that's the time she comes back from her volleyball practice. And I want to know what happened in her day. I want to know and I want to make food right there and have a conversation with her. So I think those are the intentional moments that I really don't want to miss. And I make sure that I don't compromise on that time and I don't go to every game. But when she tells mom, you have to be there for this one or you have to be there for this concert because it means a lot to me, then I will drop everything to make sure that I show up. So I think she understands that mom has a job and when I'm at work, it could be that I have to go for two weeks somewhere. It could be I'm right now just came back from a 10 day trip in Ahmedabad, Hyderabad, in London. My husband was holding down the fort and he was doing everything, everything from breakfast, lunches, dinners to volleyball games and so forth. So I also know that I have a trusted partner at home and that gives me the freedom. So I get a lot of freedom at work, to work the way I want, be who I want, and then at home too. So I find myself having this balance that I've created a world for right now where I can actually serve both. And there are pressure moments for sure. Like we have a project this weekend, I'm going to be there and then an off site and then in New York and. But I'm, I am very intentional. We pre planned it, we know what to do. So it does take a lot of focus and intention to do that.
• 10:28
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. So it's not a surprise to your daughter when you're away for a weekend. How do you communicate the demands of your role to your daughter when work does need to be prioritized and maybe you do have to Miss a volleyball game.
• 10:40
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, it is clarity. It's amazing how my work life and my personal life are balanced. High performance team is the culture that we've built at elf. And it all sort of is about building passionate relationships which allow you to have healthy dialogue and conflict with mutual accountability at home. My daughter and I have very. She's also taking debate, which doesn't help her. And I have very, very clear communication. Hey, Anua, you want to meet here? But mama has to fly or Mama has to be. She's doing this big project. So don't talk to her as just a child or. I want to give her clarity that as a working parent, I have to juggle a lot. And that means that in order for me to show up for her and take her on those vacations and other places, she understands the demands of my work and my husband, too. So I think having a very. Like, my husband gets to work from home, which is. It's perfect. And I think that's the balance that we've found, is that he works from home and he's there in those important moments. In some moments I'm there and some moments we're together. And she knows that
• 11:49
  Kevin Rice: as a working mom, it's hard to get to your professional level without making some sacrifices. What has been the cost of your success? And do you have any regrets?
• 11:59
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, I live a life of zero regrets. You have to. Otherwise you're always dwelling on what you could have done differently. I had to start working at a very young age, and I've written about it on my LinkedIn post as well. From serving newspapers to selling flowers to working in restaurants, like, you name it, I've done it all. And that meant I could not go hanging out with my friends because I was working and I was going to college. And so I've sacrificed my. I would say those years when you build a lot of friendships and those friendships that you probably carry in your career. So I do have a lot of great friends that I can count on my fingers. I don't have the many relationships that I might have built during those times. So I've. I feel like I've sacrificed maybe the. Some. Some things that people do for fun or to build connections, but because I was always working or I was focused on my career. But as I said, zero regrets because it made me who I am and I still have fun now. I make up by enjoy, you know, having people over for dinner and cooking for them and so forth. So, yes, it made me who I am.
• 13:09
  Kevin Rice: That's great. I actually was talking to a startup founder who was kind of where I was at, you know, 10, 15 years ago when I was starting my company. And he asked me the similar question of, would you have done anything differently? And I don't think I would have worked any less because it got me to where I am today. But back to our opening topics. I would have been more intentional and present with the time that I did have with my kids, because I was with them even when I was working 14, 15 hours a day and traveling 50% of the time. But in that time that I did have, I would have, if I could go back and do things differently, would have been more present, like reading bedtime stories, just, you know, been in the moment, been more intentional about how we were spending time together. And that doesn't take more time. That just takes more forethought and more focus.
• 13:56
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. And I think one other thing I would say is it's a habit, too, because consistency is important. So As I said, 6 to 8 is my consistent time and the weekends, but 6 to 8 is my time, and she knows it, that I'm gonna go in. Mom's gonna be there. She's gonna ask me, how was my day, did I win the game or not? And, you know, what are we eating? And I already have, like, a menu ready for her. So, you know, those moments are so precious.
• 14:23
  Jen Kattula: I know. You are so ambitious, Ekta. You have this big job. You have a family that you're committed to presence. You also have your mom who you're taking care of. I'm really curious if there was ever a time when you had so much pressure and stress and what you actually learned, the pressure and adversity. And was there. There a cost for you? Was there a learning?
• 14:48
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, I can remember that probably three years ago when we were doing our SAP implementation at alf. It is, trust me. Everybody told me, you'll get fired for sure because taking on SAP means you're signing up for possible 90% failure. So we came out of it with zero business disruption. And I still, like, pinch myself, but I remember this high tense moment when a, you know, individual who I had sort of deemed as the leader of the project was very transparent with me and said, I cannot do this. And she actually left in the middle of the project personal life. My mom just had, like, a minor heart attack, and Anu was changing schools, and all of it that could happen all at once was happening. And it was a moment where I was like, okay, this is where I need to take a pause and I have to maybe take a week off of work and reground myself because if I'm not putting the mask on myself, I cannot be there for the people around me. So it was a realization that I truly could not juggle meetings and this and that I really needed to take a pause. And I did, I did take a pause. I went on a small vacation with my husband and my daughter and I said, I. I'm stepping away from the world for one week. I. I really need to. So coming out of that, and I did a post on LinkedIn too, it taught me that there are moments when your body will tell you you're just being a human. Like you're how tired you are or something's going on. It'll tell you that you need to pause, listen to it and just do it. Because coming out of that, I was more ready than ever before. I had clarity on who I need to go hire, and I did hire them in a couple of weeks. I reached out to my network and the next thing you know, I had the best person needing it. So I think sometimes when you do get hit with all angles, I think taking a pause and reflecting on what you need to do gives you the clarity to move forward.
• 16:49
  Kevin Rice: I appreciate the permission.
• 16:52
  Ekta Chopra: Yes, that's right, the permission. And those moments and connection with nature and your family together I think are very important. Do it. Do it, Kevin. Go for it.
• 17:04
  Jen Kattula: I think one thing that I could learn from you and probably all the listeners could really learn is when you have to make work the priority, how do you stay connected with your daughter, connected your husband when you're potentially away or you're working really long hours.
• 17:22
  Ekta Chopra: There are things that I do with Anu that are very important for me. So now what we do is because she's in sixth grade and pickup times can be wild. We have a text chain and probably if I go back and when I'm having a really pressured moment, I'm reading that text chain because it's so funny. It is so raw. It is so funny. We're sending emojis to each other. I love writing for Anu. And I was at an event and they actually had a poem writing type of a deal over there that, hey, give us the name of the person and you'll do this. And it came out like this beautiful poem about Anu and which I had actually sent to her. And she has it printed and she has it by her workstation that she keeps. And that's like a very beautiful moment for me at times when we get mad at each other or something, and I'll remind her to go, look at that poem. See how much mama loves you. You know, the emotional threat that comes in. But there are things that, you know, I would say those little moments of joy and those moments even when I'm traveling. One other moment was she was going on her first camp ever, overnight camp, and I was speaking at a conference in Florida, and I was really bummed because I wanted to volunteer. And she had. She had been very clear, mom, you can volunteer next year. Don't do it this year. I need to do this on my own. And I was like, okay, fine. You're grown up, and that's fine. But with the moms, we were doing the text group, and they sent me a photo of her waking up in the morning, and she was writing something, and she said, your daughter, you know, was so kind to everyone here. She shared her tick patches because I'm really scared of ticks. I had given her rolls and rolls of tick stickers, and she distributed them to everyone because some of the kids didn't have them. So I was like, okay, she's learning kindness from me, and that would be my legacy, leaving her that, you know, that I'm going to be leaving with her as well.
• 19:22
  Kevin Rice: Hi, Kevin here. If you're enjoying this conversation and you know someone else who's working to grow in their career while staying present at home, I'd really love it if you could share this episode with them. It's one of the best ways you can help us and help more leaders build their career in a way that they're proud of without missing the moments that matter most. It's clear kindness and empathy are core values that show up for you both at work and at home. Where do those two come from?
• 19:46
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah. One thing that I would say is something ingrained in me since I was a kid, and it comes from my mom, is empathy. And I still remember, my earliest. Earliest memories that I can ever remember is waking up, and it would be like Diwali time. Diwali is a festival every year. And I would smell Imam's making laddus, which is like a sweet that she loved giving to people. And. And her reason for making these thousands of laddus that I. I remember distinctly, that she would carefully put in boxes was she was a business owner, so she wanted to make sure that all the workers, the gift with whatever else, had those homemade laddus that she made with her hand. And it was to make sure that they knew that they mattered. The work that they did, it was not about the monetary thing, but it was the act of, I'm going to do this for you as a gesture. And that continued for years along with everything that you know. I credit my mom for building empathy in me. Fast forward. Today I work for a company that is a bold disruptor with a kind heart. ELF has purpose pillar that touches on the values of our community. It touches my personal values. Do the right thing, have the curiosity, have that boldness, but never forget the kind of heart that you have to have. So in everything that we do for internal elves, my team, I think I tell everybody with pride and I've done some roadshows recently globally that I think everybody has showed up at my place for my Christmas party at least once every year. And it's open to everyone. People come for the ELF Christmas party in Oakland to somehow end up at my house and we're sharing and breaking bread and having fun and listening to carolers. Right. So that carries throughout that, that human connection and making feel people sort of how important they are and they matter is very important. So I carry that thread from my mom all the way to a company that does that. And me personally make sure that I do that.
• 21:57
  Jen Kattula: Ekta. I, I love that. I think being driven by your values is so clarifying. One of the things that often comes up is when your values are tested. Can you share any examples of when you used your values to make a difficult decision?
• 22:16
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, it actually happened at elf and it was a situation where I was part in early on in my journey at elf, essentially. And there was a very large scale project that required influence and it required a lot of pushing like we gotta do this guys, you know, and taking some really tough decisions. And I did have a conflict with a senior leader essentially and it tested my personal value, which was it's okay to have difficult conversations and conflict, but disrespect is something I cannot, especially when it comes to disrespecting in front of my team and so forth, or it's okay to challenge a decision. And I, and I distinctly remember having a conversation directly with the person and practicing our HPT values and saying, here's a situation. You really made me feel like this and I'm going to let you know this is my non negotiable and this should not happen ever again. I was a senior person, so, and I think the ultimate outcome was the person was really apologetic. And in fact we have a deeper connection now. So I think difficult situations will come all the time. But being authentic and knowing that, you know, what are your non negotiables. And it oftentimes comes with your values. Right. Like discrimination or if it's sexism or whatever you want to call it, like, I just have no patience for that. And I build that in my daughter too. Right. And for her like challenge, like be in sports and don't, like you cannot play this game or do that. So I think it's really important to me that one must never compromise with what their non negotiables are because it never feels good. Never feels good.
• 24:06
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. We had a situation where we had a client that was just very disrespectful and it was a significant account and we recognized that it just wasn't a good fit anymore despite the significant drop in our revenue that we were going to experience from it. But the, the way they were treating our team just wasn't worth it. It was too toxic. And we knew we were going to lose team members and at the end of the day we had to use that value to make a very difficult decision which as a consultancy, losing an account can have a big impact and. But we had to, you know, lead with our values and make the right decision.
• 24:38
  Ekta Chopra: Exactly. Yeah.
• 24:40
  Jen Kattula: Sometimes cost to it. Acta at home you just, you just talked about how you're instilling value. Daughter, can you share a story of something? Maybe she faced that where she stand up and use her voice with her values.
• 24:55
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, I clearly remember this was. And it had a couple of incidents, but I'll choose this one in particular. My daughter came home and generally she's very liked in school. She's like that I want to run for president type of a girl. And she came home and I was noticing a pattern that she would just come home, go to her room. And I was like, anu, are you okay? Like what's going on? You can always share with myself and dad. And she said, mom, there's a person and for some reason every time I pass by, they just like hit me. And I said like, did they hit you? Or they're just like teen, like hitting is like serious, right? Have you told the teacher? And she said, no, I'm scared to because if I tell the teacher, like the girl might do some something else. And I said, okay, I said this is what I want you to do. I want you to go in tomorrow and if this happens again, I want you to tell her that please stop this and be direct that I do not like this and it's not okay to do that and then let her know that if it happens again, you will be letting the teacher know rather than me emailing the teacher. I wanted to teach her that she needs to deal with her own conflict first. And oftentimes kids go through so much in school that they don't have the tools in their toolboxes to sort of deal with this everyday conflict that's gonna come up with kids being kids. Right. So I try not to jump in like as a protective parent. Right to the teacher and of the situation. I want to teach her that you have to stand up for yourself first. If you don't stand up for yourself, nobody else will. So I think that's one example of the value that I want her to carry is she can always stand up for herself and her voice matters.
• 26:46
  Jen Kattula: That is such a great story Acta. And so much to learn from it too. Because parenting is tricky these days.
• 26:52
  Ekta Chopra: It is
• 26:53
  Jen Kattula: parents that, that will email the teacher or will be very overprotective for right or wrong. I mean there's situation is different and no judgment, but it's just the, the, the ways to handle these situations. It's like walking on eggshells sometimes.
• 27:10
  Ekta Chopra: It is, it is.
• 27:11
  Jen Kattula: I got to screw my kid up. Am I doing the right thing for the classroom? Like what is okay?
• 27:17
  Kevin Rice: All the common wisdom is always conflicting. I look at my Instagram feed, there's dozens of parenting experts and they would all have the ex advice in that situation. One of the guys would be like, tell your kid to stand up for himself and punch him back or something. Another person would say it's dangerous. You need to step in and talk to the teacher. I agree with what you said because if we're always solving our kids problems at a young age, but then more serious problems at an older age, then we're not teaching them to be self sufficient, independent. It's. What's the phrase? Learned helplessness.
• 27:50
  Ekta Chopra: Yes, learn
• 27:51
  Kevin Rice: and, and entitlement. Right. Those are the kind of things that lead to entitlement. So I, you know, love your solution
• 27:57
  Ekta Chopra: and I would jump in if it was. She knows the non negotiable. I said if. And those are like inappropriate things that could happen to kids in schools and so forth. And she knows to pull me in because she knows mama will jump in, you know. But there are moments that I was like with your friends, I told her just like you have a lot going on. Your friends have a lot going on. They could be having a bad day. So unless it is really bad and somebody has like physically done something you need to stand up for yourself, and you need to deal with different type of personalities. It's important for the kids to be able to learn how to do that.
• 28:35
  Kevin Rice: Ekta, you have an incredible wealth of knowledge when it comes to AI it's even in your title. You're using it across your organization in some amazing ways. So what's the playbook on how to navigate artificial intelligence both at work and how you translate it at home with your own kids?
• 28:52
  Ekta Chopra: Yes. So human first, human last is the strategy that we follow at elf but that's the strategy I follow at home as well. And it is that, yes, AI could be your thought starter. You give it something to kind of help you think through stuff. But the ultimate outcome, the human owns, right? The. It involves judgment. It involves. And in business sense, it involves impact. So for my daughter, too, when I allowed her to play Roblox, the first thing I did was security. One on one, right? You can. You cannot befriend anyone. If anybody sends a request, it's gonna be routed through mom and dad and they have to approve it. We have to know who that person is. And you know, how you get, like, different things in the games. If it's less than three stars, you shouldn't do it because it could have a virus in it. So I always start with her knowing the important things that can get her in trouble. That was Gmail as well. Like, now they submit their homework on Gmail and things like that, right? So I think it's always giving them the good and the bad up front. And I do the same with AI I was like the first. I'd be. Never let her use AI for like, hey, build this for me or create this for me. Because I always tell parents that critical thinking should not be outsourced to AI and you have to tell them what AI is. She took an AI Basic System class in the summer, and she learned about the different things of how AI could be applied and so forth. But she learned the fundamentals. And now she is pretty good about, like, when we are watching something, she'll be like, that's AI generated. Mom, I don't like this. That was AI trying to sell me something. I don't like that, you know? So I do think that exposing the kids to the good and the bad at when they are starting to get curious about it is important. And the same thing at my work. It's human first, human last. I don't want to kill innovation, but I don't want to do it where, you know, we can get the company into trouble. So how do you do and balance both is very important. And in my personal life, oh, man. My husband and I, because he's a geek, I'm a geek. Like, we built so many different apps for things that we want to do in our personal life, right. Whether it be coordinating pickups with our parents who have to drop off pickup and taking them to these events. We've created apps for everything. So it's. It is kind of fun because it's given a new thing for my husband and I to do together is Vibe coding. But then it's also. We're seeing how other parents are using our app and they're also coming up with ideas, you know, so it's given a, like, a new community that we're building around Vibe coding and parenting.
• 31:40
  Kevin Rice: I love that. It's like the Silicon Valley date night. Vibe coding and wine.
• 31:47
  Jen Kattula: It's so true. I. I think Vibe coding is like another form of entertainment because you can get. You can get in it and you're like, I don't need to Netflix and chill anymore. I don't need to binge like a whole season. I'm just gonna Vibe.
• 32:02
  Kevin Rice: Well, Jet Jen, you Vibe coded your values application, right?
• 32:06
  Jen Kattula: I. Yeah, I'm. I Vibe coded an app for my personal TikTok brand, which is called House Rules, which is. Oh,
• 32:14
  Ekta Chopra: my God.
• 32:15
  Jen Kattula: Yeah. Helping helping families build their own identity and systems.
• 32:21
  Ekta Chopra: Oh, my God, I love that.
• 32:22
  Jen Kattula: I'm actually curious, Acta, because, you know, now with these personal assistants coming out, I feel like there's been five in the last few weeks.
• 32:29
  Ekta Chopra: A hundred percent.
• 32:30
  Jen Kattula: Do you have a personal operating system that you can share that you can maybe give some advice to?
• 32:37
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah,
• 32:37
  Jen Kattula: there's about.
• 32:38
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah. So I am, you know, one of the things that I do is for me, in order for me to lead something or be, you know, really in tune with it, I have to really get into the guts of it and see how it can be applied. So when even openclaw and now Muse and, you know, Dots came out, we have a separate laptop that is connected with these, call it virtual, Almost different email IDs and so forth that have access to everything. And, and the reason I did that was because I wanted to learn what is the art, the possible. And what I can tell you is I've been testing Muse as probably the best product so far. I just started doing some work with Dots. Once again, it is going to be really interesting. So I have a few predictions. My one prediction is that in the next 12 months, especially for enterprises if enterprises start adopting this, there will be. And if they're not thinking about risk management and security around this, there will be a breach of some sort of. That would be alarming. And if you don't do it right, my next prediction is as many people are on Facebook and using meta right now, I think the Last number was 5 million downloads. They're actually giving them credit cards to shop. The whole shopability by agent is going to be disruptive. Know your agent's identity is the biggest problem that brands have to solve for very quickly because Dots, Muse and many other like Instinct, they're already people are using them to shop and of course Amazon is blocking them. This is blocking them. But at some point that block will be gone and your sites have to be able to talk to machines that are shopping and connecting them to the human behind who's allowing those machines to shop. So know your agent identity is the biggest problem that brands have to solve.
• 34:30
  Jen Kattula: Yeah, I just heard a stat that in five years agents are going to outnumber web traffic a thousand to one.
• 34:39
  Ekta Chopra: My gosh,
• 34:42
  Jen Kattula: it's really like a new customer that you as a brand need to think about how to market to. What is your
• 34:48
  Ekta Chopra: exactly?
• 34:49
  Jen Kattula: Party data and content strategy. And. And then on the other side, on the consumer side, how do you build brand love?
• 34:57
  Ekta Chopra: Yes.
• 34:58
  Jen Kattula: Through an Asian interface. And what else do consumers need? And my personal opinion is that consumers are going to want to feel that raw human connection and they're going to find it other ways.
• 35:11
  Ekta Chopra: They, they will
• 35:12
  Jen Kattula: find it other ways
• 35:14
  Ekta Chopra: a hundred percent. Like the physical ways the brand shows up or how do you still keep the human in the loop? Like I think that that human connection is even a bigger superpower you need to have. And your, yes, your systems have to sell to the agent and you know, send them messages and whatever. The whole journeys will evolve. But those moments of human connection will even be more valuable and meaningful for the brand.
• 35:41
  Kevin Rice: This really opens up a can of worms because we've seen it over the last 20 years. People are constantly willing to sacrifice their privacy for convenience. And so as these tools like I've been using Instinct lately, can start booking appointments for me and start transacting for me, it kind of takes the emotional part out of a decision because now I'm telling my agent, do my shopping for me,
• 36:05
  Ekta Chopra: buy
• 36:05
  Kevin Rice: some cosmetics for me, it probably knows my preferences, but I'm not giving it that input of like, I love this brand campaign that I saw on my favorite TV show and I feel some affinity with the brand. So I Want to associate with them. That whole brand marketing approach that's been around for 50 years kind of changes when you're talking about how do you convince an agent to buy your product versus another product With a very logical decision making framework.
• 36:33
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, it is, it is a really tough like as we think about SEO to A E O G E O Journey five words. I want a lipstick to. I want a lipstick for a party. It's going to be in a place where I can be very sweaty. Like you name it, right. And it has to be under $5. How your content and how do you show up as a brand for that but then not lose like in the case of us, like the elfisms that are really important to us. Why the ELF not elfing? Amazing. All of those things that we also incorporate in our PDPs but the machine doesn't know that the machine is looking for those trustworthy things. And so that is a challenge is how are you going to maintain both the trust and for the machine to do that.
• 37:19
  Jen Kattula: We could go on this forever. I will just say one thing. I think in that example that is precisely why brand love is so important. We're talking about a purchase that is a pretty low stakes purchase, a pretty inexpensive purchase and the functional benefits that you just named like 10 brands could say the same thing. So who loves elf? If you know, you feel see yourself in elf, you see that elf is about inclusivity. It's about cruel, cruelty free, all of those values that you have. Then you're gonna buy elf and that's where brand love really matters. So I think it's gonna be so interesting or the
• 38:03
  Ekta Chopra: next five years as you rightly said, it's gonna be fascinating to see. You know, I think there'll be more physical sort of, you know, ways the brands show up like state fairs and different places and you know, activations with pop ups. So I think there will be like a lot of physical back almost in some ways because the communication channeling is happening through AI, you know, in many ways. So it's interesting, interesting dynamics.
• 38:31
  Jen Kattula: How are you building a playbook for adoption of AI within your organization?
• 38:37
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah,
• 38:38
  Jen Kattula: maybe some examples.
• 38:40
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah. So as, as I said, human first, human last. I will say 80 plus percent of the organization is using AI. And you know, this whole dynamic which people were saying that middle management is dead. Right. I think the opposite. People closest to the work can reimagine the work. So we technology now is the easy part. The harder part is how are you going to do your work differently because the way the agent, what you give to the agent versus human is very different. So my most pride moment is, I think every day I. Oh, my God, Ekta, thank you so much. Like, we love this, you know, blah, blah, blah, AI. And I'm like, oh, my God, it gives me so much joy because they have taken their processes from four weeks to four hours in payroll, or they've taken something that used to be an IT request for a dashboard. They're building their own dashboards and they're like, oh my God, look. Look at my dashboard. And, you know, they want to tell those stories. So every month we do this. Our program is called Able Connect, where we bring in external leaders, our internal leaders, and the stories that inspire people on AI. And I think that's picking up is people are seeing how it's changing their work and it's not this big scary thing. It actually can make them more productive. They'll learn something new. So that's how, you know, sort of we are carrying the ball on adoption. And so far it's been very successful.
• 40:06
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. And that human first, human last approach really helps protect against the, like, cognitive offloading that, you know, we're concerned about.
• 40:14
  Ekta Chopra: Exactly.
• 40:15
  Kevin Rice: And we've, you know, we've seen a lot of, like, very simple examples, or at least I have, of like using AI to generate a creative brief or help draft emails, like, just more as like a writing partner. What are, what are some of the projects you guys have implemented that actually, to your point earlier, fundamentally the channel changed a process or a workflow to now it's just like, different than it used to be because AI is part of the process.
• 40:39
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, so many great examples. But, like, even, you know, first I thought that marketing would be the renegade, like, disruptor in using AI. My gosh, it's the actual supply chain teams and accounting teams that are crushing it. They're taking their monthly reconciliation processes that used to be done in pivot tables in Excel. Now the agent is doing is because they've written a skill or a playbook that just executes and a human approves it. So, like, that's one example. Another example is this is like we built a AI first demand and supply planning platform, and now my supply chain team thinks they are engineers because the technology is easy. And now they're building agents and, you know, building sort of ways that things can just. We can predict the virality of our products sooner, so our forecasts are better. And they're so excited. Every. I have a request every day. Oh, my God, can we have access to this. Can we try this? Can we like do a workshop on this? So for me, it's like this. It's almost brought fun back to work. It doesn't feel mundane because AI is changing so much. I think there's a newfound joy that people have in how they work. So that to me just gives me so much happiness that, you know, been able to create a way for the. To accelerate the new operating model that we have to do for elf. So
• 42:04
  Kevin Rice: for an organization that might be a little bit further behind in their kind of AI adoption curve, where would you encourage them to start?
• 42:11
  Ekta Chopra: You know, if you asked me this question maybe few months back, I would say just start playing around and you know, and do that. I do think that there's a. If you are a enterprise with fiduciary responsibilities, the big word, whether you're public and so forth, do look at the risks around it as well. So the whole point of like, don't kill innovation, but have observability on what these agents are doing, how we're instructing them. That is just as important in order for you to foster the innovation. So I think start with, of course, playing around. You should play around with it if you're not already. But do start with like policies and some risk governance of okay, I'm going to now Claude is cheaper or, you know, dots has just come out, do it. But then figure out how are you going to observe what they're doing. So have an observability strategy like know where your risks are, what systems you're giving access to. So inventory of all those systems and integrations that you're going to now allow an agent to kind of take over. I think start with that. Because this world is changing so rapidly that if AI agents are like learning and behaving on their own or even hallucinating, then you know, the damage could be just as much. So balancing both is really important.
• 43:34
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, I think it kind of goes back to our first thing we talked about, which is intentionality. Right. I
• 43:39
  Ekta Chopra: think
• 43:40
  Kevin Rice: there's a place for allowing curiosity. But let's be honest, nobody has just a lot of time to just kind of play around. So I think like being intentional about the time. If you've got an hour a day across your employees, we need to give them some direction of like where to start and where to go. I used to do a lot of work with the maturity curves and saying, okay, here's the initial phase and here's the foundation phase and then we start to accelerate and innovate here's the criteria and stages to get through this. Is there anything like that that you're thinking about in your organization of kind of moving from where you started to now being more in kind of maybe an acceleration phase and like where you're going next? Like, do you have a framework like that that you follow
• 44:24
  Ekta Chopra: a hundred percent? So it is. We start with everybody gets the governed front door. You, technology is yours. People upload, download, connect, whatever. We've given you connections to do it. Just learn, spend the time, you get out what you put in it. So learn the trainings, attend the sessions. But behind the scenes, what we're observing is tokenization is a big thing. How much is it costing when somebody builds a chief of staff for them? If it's costing 500amonth, can I get it down to under 10 through optimization? Can I share that chief of staff for everybody in the organization? So now we're in that phase of analyzing how do we optimize what people are building. Then we're analyzing who are my rock star architects that are gonna really transform not just their life as an employee, their teams, because they're sharing skills, they're sharing playbooks, and oh, by the way, they have fundamentally changed a process to make it faster or they've improved accuracy. Those are my architects that I'm giving more access to. So they get a multiple suite of things to go play around with. We're going to be doing hackathons and so forth. So that's how we're doing is like everybody gets it, but then we will optimize it and we will elevate those architects to then go unleash on other things. But with governed front door,
• 45:49
  Jen Kattula: I was hoping we could talk about the playbook as parent and AI. You talked before about how you first started with security and safety. But can you share, like, what advice would you give to other parents who want to introduce AI to their kids but don't really know where to start?
• 46:08
  Ekta Chopra: Yeah, I would say that whether we like it or not, knowing how to work with AI and the good and the bad and the amazing, you do have to expose your kids to it. So having a Some sort of. And I love the fact that you have this value system, some sort of a value system, you can call it around AI and parenting, which is around. Okay. It's important to us as a family that we are all thinkers, that we are readers, the physical book and so forth. So number one, like having those rules, number one, you're not giving AI things to just do so I am not giving Anu my daughter an agent. Like the agent does everything. What I am allowing her to do is that she can, once she writes a paper, she can actually ask the AI to critique the paper and say, hey, how would you think about this? Or maybe you should think about these other angles or something like that. So I'm very clear about she still has to do the work and the AI can help her either make it better or give her advice. Right. So having those values up front that you don't have an open access just because you have a computer now, you have Claude and everything and you can build stuff that connects everything. I hope she gets there when she's 16 and she wants to like now do a business or whatever, I will let her do it as. Okay. But I want to make sure that I Safety is always important. Don't outsource your thinking is always important. Play with it. That's also important. Like the vibe coding, myself, my husband and my daughter, we did a wipe code app that we want to now publish where she's such a great artist. I was like start making money selling it on Shopify. Right. So we've had to like teach her that there. The good part of it is that she can think like an entrepreneur. Like anything is possible now with this technology. But don't outsource your thinking. That's also like the non negotiables are those things, you know, for us.
• 48:11
  Jen Kattula: And I think one of the, the pieces that really sticks with me is that the parents need to get their hands dirty.
• 48:18
  Ekta Chopra: Dirty, Exactly.
• 48:19
  Jen Kattula: Get in there as well so that you really know what the tools, what kind of responses the tools are giving where it can go sideways, you know your kid the best so you know if you're how your kid might end
• 48:31
  Ekta Chopra: up. Exactly. And just like, you know all these stories where it's unfortunate where kids have done something wrong because of how they were engaging with AI, that's serious stuff. Right? So number one, if I were to tie this whole thing together, being engaged in your child's life and knowing at every grade level or whatever what are the challenges that they're facing and the behavior changes, as a parent, you have to be able to make the time to observe that. And if you are seeing patterns that where they are not listening or they're doing something that's totally out of character, don't wait. And I do think that anything done in isolation, whether it's gaming or if it's talking to my chatbot or whether it be being on your mobile device and scrolling through social media. Anything in isolation, if you do it in overdrive, I think can cause emotional impact, physical impact, and so forth. So I do. I really think that it's very important to have pattern recognition of your children's behaviors and don't wait to act on them.
• 49:41
  Kevin Rice: That's a great example of really being in tune with your children and the only way to get there is by being present when you're with them and not being distracted. Ekta, that was a elfing fantastic conversation.
• 49:52
  Ekta Chopra: Thank you.
• 49:53
  Kevin Rice: Thank you so much for joining us today. I sincerely appreciate it.
• 49:58
  Ekta Chopra: Thank you for having me. And oh my God, it felt like we could talk like the whole day and walk away with so many good nuggets. So thank you. Thank you for having me.
• 50:08
  Kevin Rice: If you enjoyed this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. CEOs and ABCs is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We've got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow and stay tuned.