Latest / Hiking without a stitch / EP. 11 – Art, Naturism & The Nudist Diaries with Edward

Transcript

EP. 11 – Art, Naturism & The Nudist Diaries with Edward · Hiking without a stitch

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Hiking Without a Stitch.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Naked Free High.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll share my journey with nature, stories from the trail, conversations with others about freedom in the open air.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: How's it going guys?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Hiking Without a Stitch.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm John, your host, and today I'm sitting down with Edward, the creator behind the Nudit's Diaries, a blog where he shares his journey into naturism, his experiences at nude beaches, and his artistic exploration of the human body in a completely nonsexual way.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, we talk about the mental health benefits of naturism, the role art plays in changing how we see ourselves, and what community and respect really looks like in nude spaces.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is a real honest conversation about breaking societal taboos and finding comfort in your own skin.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, enjoy.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Edward, welcome to the show.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad you're here today.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you consider yourself a naturist or nudist?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really like the labels myself, but when it from what I've seen online, naturist kind of follows more of my path.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um the nudity isn't about just the nudity.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's more about um belonging together, like or connection and mental health for me.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've gotten a lot of mental health benefits from it as well.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the like positives you've seen in your own life?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's basically just a better understanding of of who I am, um, which really settles I mean, it doesn't fix the confidence in all areas of my life, but um it has fixed a it in a lot of areas.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um before we like take off, do you want to tell listeners a little bit about yourself and kind of where you're joining us from?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um I'm I live in uh the on the Sunshine Coast, British Columbia, Canada.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's a ferry ride north of Vancouver on the mainland.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um a lot of people confuse it with Vancouver Island, but it's completely separate from that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we're still we're still landlocked.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: We there are no roads leading in.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: We have to take a ferry to Vancouver to get out of here.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Or go up north and take a ferry from Powell River way up north across to the island, and but that's you know, a long trip.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I uh I've spent a lot of my life uh like nailing down my sexuality.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I went through uh you know I went through trying out pretty much everything until I settled on the fact that I just don't get romantic feelings or sexual feelings very often, or if at all, most of the time.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: So um so I've decided I've come to the grips with the fact that I'm aco, which is asexual, aromantic.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I basically go through life by my I wouldn't I'm not gonna say alone, because I'm but um but friendships and and um relationships that I do are completely platonic and I get more out of that than I would I think out of romantic relationships.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I see and I for me that fits into naturism quite a lot.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um because I can I can I have a perspective for the non-sexual nudity that a lot of people coming in that that have lived a sexual life most of their lives do not or have a hard time trying to wrap their minds around.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Especially when it comes to family naturism and and youth and stuff in in nature's faces.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: When you're when you're looking at it from a terms of never seeing a sexual aspect to it, um sometimes it's just bizarre how people get so like crazy about it.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, real honey.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: You just don't understand.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're just like, well, what what why?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Was that was that something that you grew up feeling?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: That that feeling of not having like attraction or anything?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I grew up, um, I especially noticed it in grade school, um, when all my uh later grade school, when all my friends started, you know, becoming interested in in girls or well, I mean I'm old enough that nobody really got same-sex attracted um out in the open anyway.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I just noticed that I wasn't like that.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't I didn't care, I had no real interest, but you know, peer pressure hit.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And um because of it, you know, I didn't I went tried to go down the same path without really having an understanding of of how that worked.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it led to a some problems, especially in my late teenage years, um, not being able to really understand a respectful consent kind of thing that, you know.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and once I learned once I realized that that this was really, you know, not good for anybody, I had to step back and go, what am I doing?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like this isn't me, this isn't what I want, this isn't what anybody else wants.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: So and uh that's when I really started noticing bodies for the first time outside, like especially in art.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: I took some uh figure drawing classes in in high school.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, all my classmates, you know, were giggling and jittering and and yet I was just completely focused on the lines and the and the shapes and the I was just right in there.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you were in the zone.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and just going, this is great.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm just like, everybody else is just why are they acting like that?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I think uh it helped me quite a lot in in pushing me in that direction.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, before we go much further into this, uh and how you got like into non-sexual nudity, I actually want to talk to you about your art for a moment.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've been spending, you know, some time looking through your blog and the pictures, and they're really, really, really good.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I've really enjoyed kind of looking through your art.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um how long have you been an artist?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: You said you took classes in high school.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh, but since the time I could put paper, pen to paper, or or macaroni as the kindergartners did.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um my mom still has a couple of old pieces that I did in kindergarten.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's awesome.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I just always enjoyed creating.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um it was pre-internet, that was basically all I did was was doodle, draw, create.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Did uh has drawing um like the nude human form always been something you explored, or has that kind of evolved, you know, later on as you explored non-sexual nudity?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: It c from what I remember, it kind of started coming coming around in early adulthood to late teenagehood.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um even though I was fascinated by the figure drawing courses that I took in I didn't really have an opportunity to really draw.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and anytime I tried to do it freehand, it was just cartoony and and I didn't really enjoy it.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um but later on later on when it the I guess it was actually when the internet hit and um we had what was called Usenet back in the day.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you know what that is.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I do know what that is.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I found a I found a couple of of re dock rec.newt or read new.rec, I can't remember the exact and when I started finding, you know, just normal everyday people out from like the 70s magazines, that's usually what people shared.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was like, wow, now I have a source to draw from.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you use the magazines as yeah, so I kind of use pictures like that to to try just kind of sketch things out.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And uh from that point it was it became more and more of a thing.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Just kept building from there.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I really like your artwork because it shows people of different ages and body types in really natural, everyday settings.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is that on purpose like intentional?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk about like any challenges society's tendency to sexualize nudity?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Have you had pushback against your your artwork?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: I have I have had pushback.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's rare.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um but and most of the time it comes from sources I never would have thought that it would have come from.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um I know that most of the time it has to do with the drawings that in that involve families.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's the ones that you really get the pushback on.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um but as far as the style that I use, it is completely intentional.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: I prefer casual, non-posed, if possible.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just environmental stuff that that shows you know people be you know enjoying themselves, not just sitting there going, look at me, I have a body.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, we all do.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's great for study and stuff, and I mean all the greats studied poses and stuff just to get muscle, muscle tone and whatnot, but but outside of that, I just really like I like capturing people in action.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um I actually showed uh my wife the a drawing that you did with a woman I'm not remembering your name.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was Rachel.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: You used her piece of artwork as inspiration.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Rachel Walker, I think, maybe?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I believe so, I believe so.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: She did she did a piece on on I even la I linked it too.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you found the link.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I sent I sent my wife that article and your blog, and she actually shared something with me I just want to share with you because I thought it was a really great response.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: She said, To me personally, I love seeing this type of drawing, his drawings, because I can picture myself in them, and it just feels really relatable and safe.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I like that the women are different because that's how reality is.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like women's bodies can drastically change during pregnancy and life, and no one really prepares you for that.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like a lot of women can tend to feel alone in that journey.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So this picture when I saw it made me feel less alone when I looked at it.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: See, and that's awesome because that's really, really kind of what I love to convey for sure.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's not everything I do is in that vein, but when I saw Rachel Walker's, or I think it's maybe not Rachel, I think it might be Karen or something, but I can't remember.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: It might be.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Are you looking it up?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, I was gonna look it up real quick just because can you tell me like when you first saw that, what what was uh like your reaction to the piece and what were you feeling when you were recreating it in your own your own way?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um well, I first came across a piece on Twitter, I believe.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was shared by uh an account that shared um photography and art from from sources and always, and thankfully to their credit, they credited everybody.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: And when I saw the the large piece with the with the full group in the in a line there, it was an instant, this is what I'm about and what I want to share.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I knew right then that I wanted to draw that.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it took me about seven or eight major attempts to try and get that one done.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: I eventually had to do it digitally, where I drew each um woman individu and figure individually, and then like kind of just resize them and and put them into the picture so that it because anytime I tried to do it, my my silly eyes just kept making everybody bigger and bigger as I went along.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I I picture like drawing one person coming over here and it's uh a different one one side was like two inches tall and the other side was like eight inches tall, and you're like, oh that doesn't work.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't line up.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so but anyway, it was but it was beautiful, and I was like I was like, if only I could be a photographer of this kind of thing, but being a single male is you really don't get a chance to break into that kind of photography.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, it's unfortunate that that's the case because there's a lot of creative good people, good artists that are on the level that you know would really benefit the rest of society to share their art.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I found her name Sarah Hester.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Sarah Hester, that's right.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: She's called Naked in the Woods.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Project Naked.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Walk Walker is another photographer that I drew from um she had she was the one where the the woman was standing with the child on her back.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you remember that one.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: That was I think Karen Walker is was her name.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is another one that I really it brought back a memory of my grandma.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: The picture that you had was a woman and a small child standing to the left of her there, kind of looking at each other, and it reminded me of being on my family used to go to Birch Bay up in Washington State and Clam, and it just took me back to this moment with my grandma when I was about six, and I haven't thought about that for a while.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I noticed too that you leave the faces out on that uh piece with the women to and it leaving the faces out almost allows people to project themselves into the image.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Was that on purpose?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's a couple of reasons.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um number one is because I do do drawings of people in that I know in real life that that would rather be anonymous.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that's one of the reasons there.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other reason is because anytime I tried to put a face in, I found it just detracted from the image overall.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: I do um photography is fine, but my I'm not a detail-oriented drawer.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so if I have to go into detail and get the noses and eyes and stuff right, um it just it just feels off to me.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Where the faceless gives it a like you said, an anonymity and a feeling of well, this could be anybody.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So how did you get into social nudity or or non-tech?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: What was your first experience?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: My first experience with social nudity was on Wreck Beach.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it didn't come about until about 2006 when I was working in Vancouver for a short period.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and a friend of mine who also was my uh co-worker with me, um her and another co-worker actually used to go down all the time.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um I was I was talking to her about something and it came up.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember what.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, well, let's go.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we did and had a fantastic time.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately I had to move away from there just after that, so I didn't get very many other trips at that point, but it it hooked me.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I I haven't looked back since really.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Were you nervous going like into that experience with your friends, or was it pretty calm?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: With my friends I was fine.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um the only thing I was nervous about was I because I had never been down there before.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know what the atmosphere was like.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was kind of nervous about it just being everybody clothed and only us being naked, or but as soon as I walked down there and saw what it was, it was just instantly instantly calm and just okay, this is this is my this is my place.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so cool.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm always curious how people first get into sharing their experiences.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um when did the nudest oops when did the nudest diaries first come about?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: It uh I can't even really remember.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't that long ago, but I was really looking for a space to share my artwork and stuff that wasn't something that kept getting banned.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so a friend of mine um her significant other, he owns a web hosting company.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we got set up on that.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so since he owns it and um I have a little more freedom for what I can what I can post and stuff, and and so that really worked out good that way.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started writing in it more frequently when I was going through some mental health issues and and stuff, and then once those kind of got a little better, I kind of dropped off.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's kind of just whenever I feel the urge.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you come back to it.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I really I've really enjoyed your your writings.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um just even about your life and experiences.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I really enjoyed is how you describe the different beaches you've visited.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: What's your what's been your favorite beach that you have visited?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the only the only true uh naturist beach that I've or clothing optional was is Reg Beach.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um the others are all kind of local or into the various, you know, towns or cities that I've been in.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I just kind of find places to to uh get away from most people.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Just just like you in hiking.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, you you gotta find your your places and yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: When you're when you're looking for places, what are you specifically kind of searching out?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is it strictly clothing optional beach or is it where anywhere where you could go to a lake and strip off?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's anywhere that I can go that I can be reasonably assured um that I that you know you're not gonna be surrounded by people.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't mind you know, walkers by or whatever.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: You keep a cover up, yeah.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Or sometimes you don't even have to cover up, sometimes they you just tell by the body language that they're just they don't care.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Or you get or you get caught, you know, doing something else and turn around and go, oh hi.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I've never had anybody get upset.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: They've always either just, you know, just either kept their eyes completely forward and just walked on, or or said hi or had a conversation.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, it's cool when you can have a conversation.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've only had one real negative experience with someone being upset with me.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else has been kind of like you.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: They nod and keep going.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Was it was it the mum or is there another guy?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was the mom with the daughter, and it was just so weird because she walked to the edge of this path and looked down and then walked down with her daughter to confront me.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's just that's just odd behavior.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like even if you yeah, even if people don't want to see it on my beach spots and stuff that I've seen, they they will just turn around and and go the other way.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a couple of people go, oh, sorry, and and I'm just like, I've got a cover, you can come.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: You can go past me.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can go past me, it's fine, but no.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um you speak about rec beach actually a lot.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um what makes Wreck Beach so unique?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, just the atmosphere is unlike anywhere else I've ever been.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've been well, actually, no, that's not true.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: The other there isn't second, the three-mile beach in Penticton was the other um clothing optional beach I'd been to.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I'd only been there once, so I'd forgotten about it.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: But Wreck Beach's atmosphere is it's still kind of old school.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's people are looking out for each other.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um no matter how many clothes people get down there, you still have your regulars that just refuse to change.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And there's just a feeling of belonging um that I that no other beach I've ever been on is has had.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like clothing beaches you go to, you don't talk to anybody, you don't stop and chat.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's you're just there to focus on yourself and swim and whatever.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: But on Rec, you people approach you to chat just out of nowhere, and you do the same, and it's okay with all just about everybody.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's like a sense of community there.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, big time community.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's super cool.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and also something I read was that Rec Beach is on a college campus or below a college?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: But below it's yeah, um, it's on a stretch of land that is kind of a plateau.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so on the edge of the plateau is it's surrounded by a whole bunch of of beachfront um and it goes from Spanish banks all the way wrap around to can't remember what the name of it is, but a tiny little beach where the kind of cruisers go.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's where the that's where the people go when they're looking for for extra.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to put it that way.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it's respectful that way because it is it is one hundred percent.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Known and sectioned out specifically for that purpose.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so you don't get any cross cross-interaction.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other beach you were talking about, uh Three Mile Beach.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: That one stuck out to me when I was reading through your blog.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I used to work in the Okanagan Valley delivering medical equipment up to the border there.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I read Three Mile Beach, I'm like, Okanagan, that sounds so familiar.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I was I was right there.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, forgetting that the Okanagan goes down as far as India.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's wild that it dips down into Washington State there.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um what are the differences to you uh between like Three Mile Beach and Wreck Beach?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I've only been to Three Mile once, but from what I saw on Three Mile, it's it's much more a nude place more than clothing optional.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um smaller crowd, obviously.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um you don't get the college kids coming down and destroying the the mood most of the time.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's but in a lot of ways it's very similar.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: They have they have a group of people, ambassadors they call them, that work with the city of Penticton to keep it a safe and respectful place.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that told me right there that you know you're not gonna have to worry about running into cruisers or or people that are misbehaving.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: At least as long as an ambassador is there.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: How how long has the ambassador program been going?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't know.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think he did say, but I don't remember exactly.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: It could be three, five, three to five years or so.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's so interesting.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's a a good um what am I trying to say?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good uh compromise.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: A good approach compromise.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a good approach too.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um Lake Tahoe is something a similar volunteer program that goes down the beach and cleans up and just makes sure that no one's doing anything they're not supposed to.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Which I think is good.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: Wreck Beach also has people like that, but it's not an official Wreck Beach Preservation Society was set up for that purpose, but they've kind of fallen by the wayside in a while after their main director retired.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And they the replacements just don't seem to be doing the job they need to be doing.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's unfortunate.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: But of course, I'm leaving, so I don't have the time or or energy to get in there and then not be there anymore.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Are you are you going somewhere?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: I will I will be moving to um close to Three Mile Beach.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So right on.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's kind of why I I scouted that area out.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And uh most likely we'll be trying to get on that ambassador program as well, because the more you have down there, the better.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you end up getting on that ambassador program, hit me up.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear more about it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's that seems like an interesting program.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really does.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: I really like that the city of Penticton is involved so that Yeah, it's it's really unique.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is the is Canada's attitude towards public nudity what's that like?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's mixed.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um it really depends on where you are.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um the more liberal-centric area like ours in Vancouver and the Okanagan and stuff, although the Okanagan is getting a little more conservative these days, but it is a little more open and and accepting, but only but not in terms of you know being openly nude in front of people, just you know, people are like, well, just keep it to yourself, kind of thing.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um But in places like and I know Toronto's pretty good.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Toronto has their own their own nude beach as well.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um but place the middle, the middle of Canada, Alberta to Manitoba, forget it.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're either you're either hiding somewhere or or getting in trouble, basically.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can't, I'm I'm just getting in trouble.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like get arrested or a ticket or something.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: You'd probably get ticketed first or warned even first.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it's not like super trouble, but the attitudes of people are going to they you know, you'll probably get reported more often than you would in say where I live.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Where people see you turn around and go, ugh, whatever.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're dying.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're being like, ah, think of the children, but I'm I'm 17 miles away from any civilization.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: But even then, like just teach your kids not to care.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: This should be a non-issue.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it is with people that you raise to be a non-issue, but yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um just to talk about etiquette on nude beaches.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: For someone visiting their first nude beach, what are a few etiquette things that you wish people would know before going to like a Canadian nude beach or any nude beach, really?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh number one, prepare yourself beforehand.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um unless you're unless you're out on a hike and stumble upon one, which you can't really help.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you know you're going to a nude beach, read about it.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Research.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do your do your homework.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because there's nothing I can really say to anybody that hasn't done that that won't just automatically do something out of you know pure instinct, basically.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um because you get a lot of people that come down that rec's not so I mean, most people I think the vast majority of people that go first time to rec know where they're going and what they're getting into.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Not everybody though.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so those people you you find they're the ones that come walking down the stairs and then stop get.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Where are we?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you can tell.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's no there's no comfort, there's no casual, they're like wide-eyed and looking around or or head down, trying not to look anywhere.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get odd the odd person that stares, and those type usually you have somebody that goes will get up and walk around over.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: They don't say anything, they'll just walk by them three or four times and just go, yep, I'm here.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that usually cures the staring.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's so it's so weird.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's really, I guess, societal that people are hung up on nudity.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: But even I took my mom to Tank Verde Falls and she stripped off and was swimming, and a guy fully clothed, walked down, took out his cell phone and was like, Oh, I'm just I'm just looking for service.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yeah, go, go away.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: We don't we don't want that here.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: We have we have had cell phones end up in the ocean on wreck.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's because people don't put up with that shit.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: They see you if they see you recording and you're not recording in a in a etiquette manner, if like not pointed at anybody, keeping it keeping it out into the ocean or selfies, you can you can do the point at the sky and look down on yourself kind of thing.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, being careful what is in your background.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: But if somebody has any kind of iffy, a person's gonna go over there and go give me your cell phone, and I want to see what you've been taking a picture, and if there's something that not shouldn't be on there, it gets checked.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: These places should feel safe for people to come and hang out.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um is there anything specific that you'd like to talk about or share that I didn't bring up before we kind of wrap up today?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh not really.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Just the fact that um a message that I really kind of want to get out there for people is is to try and get a like I've I've noticed a lot online, especially online, in in person it's not so much of a problem, but online people are starting to get too caught up in the performative, in the cliches, the this this will happen, this is going to happen.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I would like people to really stop and consider and think about what naturism or nudism would mean to them as a person.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Not as a lifestyle, not as an event or a you know, or an activity, but as a person.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: And get away, try and get away from that that culture that that's kind of growing online right now where everybody's these heroes are starting to show up, heroes of nudism, these influencers that do nothing but just post just some of the most useless direc I've seen in a long time.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and you don't get a sense of of belonging that way.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I yeah, I just like that's why I was attracted to your podcast so much, is because you got away from the from that stuff.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean you asked the questions and stuff, but but your conversations are just so real.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that last one with your friend Robert, oh my god, I think I was in tears for the last half.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, I I've never seen two people just be so comfortable with each other and and be so not far apart on certain issues, but you know, have different different interests at with the same interests.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And just be able to sit there and go, yeah, it's not for me, but I love that you do it.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: And he's a good man.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you just don't see that a lot.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we we have we have worked worked together on understanding each other, and we've been on a lot of adventures together, and it it's cool meeting someone that is open to you know, that's not for me, but yeah, you know, I'll support you in your choice.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: And vice versa.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thankfully, I've got a couple of friends like that in my life too, so it really just needed it.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: It just really resonated.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad to hear that.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um all the links to your profile or nudist diaries will be in the show notes.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um Thank you for joining me today.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you, and I appreciate your outlook on you know naturism and non-sexual nudity in the way that you're showing up online because I think the world needs more of that.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well and more realness.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Just just some j genuine just yeah.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what like genuine nudity.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Just just real regular people.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Real regular people, yeah, exactly.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Just living life.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not trying too hard, but also you know, not sitting back and not trying either.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't if you sit back and do nothing, then stuff gets eroded, and then it gets to a point where we can't, you know, make do any change.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so that's kind of my mission is is to be a voice out there, but not to be so in your face and and stuff that it turns people away either.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: So well, I think you're doing a great job, and I hope a lot of people come check out your artwork and your blog because I thought it was badass.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for doing that, and thank you for coming on the podcast today.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no worries.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that's the end of the episode.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Edward, thank you for coming on and sharing your story, your perspective, and your work.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to check out more of what Edward is doing, you can find the nudist diaries and all the links we spoke about will be in the show notes.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Normalizing nudity in our outdoor spaces comes through participation, open conversation, and creative expressions like the artwork we talked about today.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's how we start changing the conversation around nudity as a whole.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, get naked, be free, and be kind.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: See ya!