Latest / Reframe First / Dani Thomas, Founder - Dani Thomas Private Travel | High-End Travel: Trends & Strategies
Transcript
- Oleksij Rak: And hey guys, welcome to another episode of Reframe First. I'm Alexey, the host of the podcast and let me welcome our today's Thomas. Danny is the founder at Danny Thomas Power Travel. So hi, Danny, it's great having you here. And thanks a lot for joining. So from what I learned, you work mostly in luxury travel and highly luxury travel and provide customized experiences for your clients. Could you tell us a bit more about the way you operate and who your clients are? Dani Thomas: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yes, yes. ⁓ No, of course. ⁓ So my background is ⁓ predominantly concierge. So I worked for Queen's essentially for over 11 years. And then 11 years ago, I set up my own business, ⁓ Danny Thomas Private Travel under the bonding of 360 Private Travel. And I'm a travel concierge and I look after Oleksij Rak: I think that's a bit of a control of it. I do have a little a sense of privacy. I'm a lawyer, I'm a lawyer. I'm a I'm a I'm lawyer. I'm I'm a a Dani Thomas: some select clients from all around the world and including sports personalities, middle eastern royal families, high net worth, ultra high net worth clients and I do everything for them from ⁓ hotels, villas, chalets, private jets, ⁓ island buyouts and also work alongside my partner charity. Oleksij Rak: Awesome. So that's a great segment of Eileen Byrne. I would say. What's the usual check? Like where does it start? Probably there is no usual. It starts from something and goes up upwards. But like where is the majority? Dani Thomas: through my other brand Retreats with Impact, where we look at philanthropic travel and taking clients to work alongside communities and so they can see exactly where their kind donations are going firsthand. Oleksij Rak: fans of this. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Dani Thomas: Yes. Oleksij Rak: You Dani Thomas: I mean the majority is their spend, do you mean? Yeah, so usually the holidays and the travel-wise range would be anything from 10,000 up to 100,000 plus. So there's no limit really because some clients have. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Dani Thomas: larger needs and I work with lot of multi-generational families, family offices, so a lot of the time it's bigger groups that are travelling so they might charter a jet to get to somewhere specific, take out a whole residence and they need a butler and they need full staff, a driver etc. Some will have, you know, want to take helicopter transfers because they don't want a long drive so it really does depend and they'll charter a yacht for a couple of days. Oleksij Rak: What does it take to work with this kind of customer, with this kind of client? The recent cost of yours on LinkedIn, I guess, that you spent an hour, 53 minutes or something with your client, like when your phone's sorting some questions. So what does it take? What's the cost of work with that client? Dani Thomas: So yeah, it depends. then other times, a simple hotel stay, some clients will just book a weekend away and then obviously the amount will be less. So yeah, it just depends on case by case really. Oleksij Rak: you Dani Thomas: Yes, on hold for a client. Yeah. Patience. Yes. No, it's true. do. That's the thing, because my clients, a lot of the time are cash rich and time poor. So for them, they wouldn't ever dream about, you know, to spend an hour and 53 minutes on hold to an airline or to, you know, a child's company or anything, which is why what I do is so important because Oleksij Rak: you Dani Thomas: A lot of the time things can change, plans can change, things around the world happen and they need to know that I'm there to hand hold and I do all the background, all the boring stuff that they don't want to do and that's what I do. It's for my clients so I'm happy to sit on hold if it means that I'm going to get them exactly what they want and they don't need to know that that's what I'm doing but it is the... Oleksij Rak: In terms of time you spend, this was, I guess, only one of the mentions that you put online, but usually you do spend time. I suppose there is time pre-trip, so to book everything, to arrange everything, and then there is another time spent to support all of them. How would you split it? How much time usually gets in... Dani Thomas: one of the boring parts of the job but the outcome makes everything worthwhile. Oleksij Rak: each of these parts and... Okay. Dani Thomas: Yes, exactly. Well, it can be quite time consuming, sort of putting all the details together, but I do work with a global network of trusted suppliers, so I lean on their expertise a lot as well. So it means that I don't need to be an expert in the globe because there's not a possibility that anybody would be able to have that kind of knowledge for the entire world, and that's why I work with a select. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Yeah. Dani Thomas: a number of trusted partners. So I rely on their expertise and they help me with all to facilitate my clients travels a lot of the time. So that takes away some of the time pressure from me because I'm passing that onto my local partner. Yeah, so I don't have to do absolutely everything for everyone. So that helps. But also I have a profile on my clients as well. So obviously the first time they book with me will take slightly longer. because I don't know them and I'm getting to know them and I need to know everything that I need to know. And then following trips from the first one become much easier because I have that profile. I already know their likes, their dislikes. I know the type of vehicle they need. I know how their suite needs to be set up, how their mini bar needs to be stocked. know, all the small details that make a big difference and especially when clients are paying a certain amount. Oleksij Rak: What are the small details? You mentioned mini bars and how this... Switch should be set. What else are they telling us? Yeah. Dani Thomas: stay at a certain property of a high level then you know I would make sure that I've got everything in place for them. Oleksij Rak: Thanks. Dani Thomas: Yeah, for example, the minibar is quite important when dealing with Middle Eastern clients, for example, and any of my Muslim clients because we need to make sure that there's no alcohol in the minibar. Sorry, that's my cat going, trying to join the conversation. He's just going to keep me howling. ⁓ Yeah, so that's just one small thing. And then you find a lot of people now Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Okay. Dani Thomas: compared to many, many years ago, there's a lot more dietary requirements now. So that's really important because some destinations need advanced warning on specific dietary. For example, Japan is one of them. It's not so easy in Japan just to grab a safe food for a client or their child if they have specific dietary needs. So I need to make sure that that's all. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. I guess your partner network does not really help with that. your partner network probably could help us like during the trip to solve some issues there. Dani Thomas: taken care of in advance. We've ordered in any food that needs to be ordered that isn't just on demand. yeah, I'd find definitely certain destinations that require that. Yeah, so that's one thing. Oleksij Rak: Okay. Dani Thomas: Yes, yeah exactly. It's always good for me to have people on the ground as well as sometimes we come up against language barriers and things like that. Obviously I don't speak every single language so that's why I'd always have a partner on the ground to help assist and to make sure as well that we have the right guides to match the guests because ⁓ every family, every group, every couple would require a guide that suits them and their likes, their dislikes. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, I see. And how do you provide the support during the trip? Is it like, ⁓ who is on the phone? Who is helping out? Dani Thomas: and not every guide, you know, it's not a one size fits all. So when they're booking tours and they're busy, we want to make sure that they're matched to somebody that fits their profile. Yes, I'm on WhatsApp for my clients anyway, but when there's a time difference, obviously that would prove to be an issue. So that's where my local partners would come in. A lot of my partners, for example, I mentioned Japan just now, my Japanese partner, they have an app. So my clients get access to that app. I've also got access to that app and that makes everything a lot easier. So they can just message whenever they... Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, I see. With regards to building some custom itineraries, what are some common itinerary items that these kinds of clients want? And how long does it usually take to build this custom itinerary? How many back and forths are there? Dani Thomas: need to and somebody will respond to them. But during UK hours then I'm there and then I'll do the messaging for them. So it just really depends. But there's always going to be someone that they can reach out to in their destination that can help. Oleksij Rak: Because... The wealthier the client is, the more demanding they become. Dani Thomas: Yeah, there can be a bit of back and forth until we... Yeah. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Dani Thomas: Yeah, whilst we fine tune it, but usually because I get to know my clients so well and I have a less amount of clients but higher volume booking, so I'm not dealing with hundreds of clients every day, I'm dealing with a smaller amount, as I say, I get to know them and it's much more personalised. So we eliminate that back and forth because after the first couple of bookings with them, I get to know them and I know the type of thing that they would like and plus A lot of my clients I've been working with for more than 20 years, so they trust me. So when I say to them, this is the itinerary I would suggest for you, a lot of the time there isn't so much back and forth because they understand that I know them really well and they trust that what I'm offering to them is going to meet their needs. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, yeah, makes sense. How would you find new clients in this premium segment? Because like the quality usual is a differentiation of premium travel operator like you are and cheaper competitors. And the only, and it's only perceivable during or after the experience, so after they work with you. I work in quite different industry and software industry, but we also have the same problem. So we provide quality experience, but ⁓ the experience itself can be perceived after the client works with us. How do you sell there? Dani Thomas: Mm-hmm. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah. Dani Thomas: I think a lot of my clients come through referral or word of mouth. So that helps a lot because then even though the client themselves hasn't tried and tested my services, they know somebody that has that can give me a review and recommend me. So that's really very important. I do get some clients that find me via LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. And again, Oleksij Rak: All right. you Dani Thomas: that would be based, I guess, from my social media, my presence, and plus perhaps looking at my background when they see that I have a very strong concierge background and my experience. I've got over 25 plus years experience in the travel industry looking after high net worth and ultra high net worth clients. And also my relationship with 360 Private Travel because we have all of the partnerships in place. Oleksij Rak: Mm hmm. Okay. Dani Thomas: Four Seasons Preferred Partner, we're Urkker Pearl, we're Rosewood Elite Club. So my clients get a lot of perks and added value with their bookings as well, which also is quite attractive when they're looking at who to book their travel with. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, so it sounds like word of mouth referrals and plus your personal brand and social media and your partner network that probably generates something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. ⁓ You mentioned that you work with multi-generational family. Who is the decision maker? Because like Dani Thomas: Yeah. No. Oleksij Rak: No, I hear like everybody knows that Gen Z is coming into play from I had few discussions with different travel agents working in segments some say is that like Jim Gen Z comes into play Gen Z already has money to the book a lecture lecture Itinerary Dani Thomas: Hahaha. Yes. Oleksij Rak: Others say that Gen Z is making, like choosing what they want, but the decision makers are their parents or grandparents. How does it work in your experience? Dani Thomas: Yes. Yeah, to be perfectly honest, when it's a multi-gen trip, it's generally the children that are, obviously the grown-up children that I'm working with to get the itinerary finalised, but as it's the parents that are paying for it, they do get the final say usually. Yeah, that tends to be if they're covering the cost, then they would need the final say for sure. But normally, to be perfectly honest, the multi-gen trips that I arrange, Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, but you still need to work with both. you need to... Yeah. And how did it change to work with this newer generation? Like, what's your experience with working with Gen Z, let's say? Because they demand quite different approaches to them. Dani Thomas: I've got to know the families so well that I've managed to find a happy medium so that everybody is pleased with the outcome. Yeah, everybody needs to be happy. Yes, no they do, they do definitely. But I think there's always, we always manage to find a solution. I can't see that where I've ever come under sort of a situation that has been super challenging. Because the type of places that my clients are visiting are very well geared up for multi-generational travel. So there tends to be something that everybody will be able to enjoy when they get there. Oleksij Rak: I'll be reading the key notes of all the information from the summary of everything that we've been through. And it's something that I think you have to be careful to make it better. And basically, it's not going be a very simple thing. It's going be a very difficult thing to So I'm going to be reading the key notes of everything that we've And be reading all the information that comes with the decision. Dani Thomas: It's not, it's never really a case that anyone will be unhappy or displeased with the final decision. So yeah, I don't, haven't really come up with that many issues where the families have been, you know, arguing or unable to come to a decision. So it's always, it's always worked out. Oleksij Rak: Okay, I see. With regards to some market trends, what you currently see? Market has changed quite a lot post-COVID probably, but what's your perception of the market in your segments that you operate in? What's changing the most nowadays? Dani Thomas: ⁓ I think obviously with the current climate in the Middle East, I've seen a lot of changes there, which I know a lot of tour operators, travel companies have seen, where obviously the Middle Eastern market isn't travelling in the same way. So that's been quite challenging. And just in general really, everything's much more last minute. Whereas before people would book in advance because of the situation, think a lot of people have been wary and have been waiting. So just in the last couple of days, I've had five bookings for May half term, which is very, very late. And the fact that hotels still have some availability shows that that tends to be a global thing that people are booking much later. Oleksij Rak: Yeah Yeah Yeah, yeah, I've heard about that a lot. Why do you think it is? Is it because like some global ⁓ uncertainties because for wealthy people it's not that big of a deal I guess. Dani Thomas: Yes. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Dani Thomas: I think global uncertainties and also the media have been scaremongering with regards to fuel. People have been worrying, or if I book flights, will we be able to go? So they just wait until much closer to the time when they think, ⁓ OK, things have calmed down a bit. ⁓ We can now go. ⁓ Yeah, I just think people have just been a little bit wary to sort of push the button and confirm too far in advance in case the situation changes suddenly. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, we've been hearing a lot from like travel agencies from bigger travel agencies from from private travel operators that ⁓ Dani Thomas: So they're just waiting and then they still want to travel, but they're just not prepared to book so far in advance. Oleksij Rak: The curve has flattened. It's not people booking one year in advance or booking something in the beginning of the year for holidays, but they rather book like last minute or a few weeks. front end. Dani Thomas: Yeah, yeah, definitely seen a change there. Although I do still have some clients that are booking for 2027 already, which is good. Booking their ski trip for February half term, booking their Easter for next year, because they know that the top suites will go. So it's best to book early to make sure they can get exactly what they want rather than having to, you know, settle for something less extravagant when the time comes. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Do you have some clients from US? Because I've heard from some travel agencies that travelers from US are not so eager to come to Europe nowadays. Dani Thomas: ⁓ I would say the exact opposite. I deal with a lot of US clients and Italy is so popular this summer with my US clients and ⁓ elsewhere. think, to be honest, my US market of clients are the ones that are booking and travelling more than any of my other clients, which I'm really happy about because they do some really lovely itineraries, which are great, which are really fun for me to arrange. Oleksij Rak: Okay. move around and see things. ⁓ Did you notice these trends by mentioning Explore about authentic experiences and so on? And what type of clients usually want to get these kinds of experiences? Dani Thomas: They like to move around a lot, which is great. explore yeah All different clients really and that's where I founded Retreats with Impact because I noticed that more clients wanted something a little bit more authentic and off the beaten track rather than the standard hotel stay. So there are lot of people, especially those with older children, teenagers and grown up kids that want to travel slightly differently now and they want something with a bit more of a community element. Oleksij Rak: Okay. ⁓ In terms of automation, since I'm running a software company, where is room for technology in your space? Because it's highly custom, highly personalized, working directly with the client. Where is room for technology? Where is room for some automation? Dani Thomas: and to really immerse themselves in sort of the destination that they're visiting. Yes. Yeah. ⁓ I think for me personally, I know because AI has been such a huge thing lately, well for a while now, but for me I embrace AI that takes away some of the menial tasks and that gives me more time to give my clients a personal service. I don't use AI imagery or videos or anything like that. because I feel like I want to give my clients a true ⁓ outlook on what I'm offering them. But yeah, I think as far as using automations for social media, I do use those so people can comment when they see something and then they'll get an automated response with my calendar link to book a call. So things like that I do use ⁓ and also... sort of following up with my clients when they return from their trip to make sure that I say, well, you know, to welcome them home, just small, small touches from where I can use automations to elevate the experience rather than take away the personal experience. Oleksij Rak: Yep. Do you think AI is a threat for private travel? Dani Thomas: No, not at all. think it's no, absolutely not. I think AI is something that we should embrace, but in the right way. So ethically, if we use AI in an ethical way, then it can do a lot of good. no, don't think because I've used AI myself to ask questions about travel and it gets things horribly wrong a lot of the time. So you can never trust it 100%. Oleksij Rak: Mm-hmm. Dani Thomas: but it is brilliant for certain things. So I think there's definitely room for both and I would never feel threatened because I know that my clients, they book with me because I have a real life experience and that's something that AI could never offer. Oleksij Rak: And what is it good for? You mentioned that it's brilliant for some things. Okay Dani Thomas: Yeah, for some things like, for example, polishing up grammar, ⁓ giving you a nicer way to say things you don't come across so harsh. So I use it sometimes to edit emails and things because it's got a nice, as long as I've trained it in my voice, it can sometimes make things a lot smoother for me. So I do use AI, AI a little bit. ⁓ And also just general questions really, if I've got questions about things and just need a quick answer, which I'll always double check things. But yeah, I think AI can be really helpful. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, for sure. And with regards to scaling cooperation, especially since it's a lot of personalization and personalization, if you do it personally with your clients, it just means scaling your hours. or the head count of people that work with you or for you. How do you see it? What prevents you from scaling nowadays and how would you scale it if you could? Dani Thomas: I think probably at some point I'd need to bring somebody else onto my team. At the moment it's just me and my assistant, which is where it works absolutely fine. But if I was going to scout then yes, I'd need to bring in I think definitely more people in my team. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, and what prevents you from scaling? it just like recommendations, number of clients or what else? Dani Thomas: I think at the moment I'm absolutely fine with what I've got. I manage to service my clients really well and I use the tools that I have. I have a really good system that I use for my itineraries. Like I say, I use AI for certain things and different technology for certain things. So at the moment, the way my business is running, I'm absolutely happy with it. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Dani Thomas: But long term, there is an opportunity to scale my business then, obviously I will. Right now, I'm happy with the amount of clients I have and how I'm servicing them. So yeah, I don't feel the need right now to jump in to do anything more. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, let's see. With regards to the future trends, what do you think will change in coming here or two years of time at the market? in this luxury travel segment in travel overall. What do you think is changing and what are your thoughts about the future? Dani Thomas: ⁓ I think it all depends really on the way things go with the situation I think in the Middle East with the fuel because that would be the biggest changes to travel obviously because I know there's been some media things in the media about flight cancellations about the lack of fuel and so that might be the only thing that would stop people ⁓ potentially. Oleksij Rak: . . Dani Thomas: doing as much travel as they've done in the past. And then, think there's definitely, I've seen an uplift in more multi-generational family travel. Oleksij Rak: How about some wellness training? Is it also present in this segment? Dani Thomas: as well. Yeah, is definitely, because there's so many wellness resorts that are opening as well, like new ones. ⁓ A lot of people like to take medical spa trips as well. That's become very, very popular. And there's a lot of those ⁓ destinations that offer a medical wellness, which has become big. So yeah, that's definitely a trend. Oleksij Rak: you Dani Thomas: And I think as well, a lot of people, they travel with their children, but I've also noticed a lot of parents taking trips by themselves now as well. So leaving the kids behind with grandparents or with nannies, whatever, and then wanting to have some time to themselves. So that's definitely something that's picked up. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, I see. Danny, I love numbers a bit, if you could share. I know that ⁓ usually online travel agencies that work on the mass market, they operate on margins about 10 to 15%. But they also have their operating costs, and that's why they're always whining about... that margins are slim and so on. How good are margins in your segment? Because I heard two different opinions. Some say margins are great, but others say that margins are still slim despite high tripper prices because commission is structured in a way that suppliers take the most of the margins. Dani Thomas: ⁓ hi. It depends, to be honest. Where I would probably lose margins personally would be on the FX rates. So quite often I'll lose margin from that because my client's booking all different currencies and I have to absorb the FX rate costs and any credit card fees. That would be my biggest challenge, I think. Oleksij Rak: . Dani Thomas: Because the margins for us tend to be fixed because when we book through, a virtuoso property, our clients will pay exactly the same to the hotel directly as what they would normally pay. However, we provide the additional perks such as the $100 credit upgrade, early check-in, late check-out, those sort of things. And then we then get... ⁓ a commission back from the hotel. the client isn't paying anything more but we're taking a commission. However when that commission's paid, quite often it's paid through a system called ONIX and there's some fees involved so by the time you add the fees on and any FX rate the commission can definitely dwindle down which is a big challenge. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, everybody's trying to cut their share. But still, what is the usual commission like if you could share it? Dani Thomas: Yes, exactly. Their standard commission for hotels is between 10 and 15%. Yeah. Oleksij Rak: ⁓ Yeah, so kind of still standard and then everybody tries to like get their share of the community. Dani Thomas: Yes. Yes. And then I give a split to 360 Private Travel as well because I pay to use their systems and the bonding and insurance and all of that. So yeah, it can definitely be challenging. Oleksij Rak: that. Yeah, and credit card fees, $100 of like fee to the customer of startup. Yeah, it all happens. I get it. Awesome. Awesome. That was quite an interesting discussion. And thanks a lot for sharing all this information. Is there anything else you would like to add on top of what we discussed? Dani Thomas: Later. No, no, I think we've covered quite a lot, haven't we? Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, we did. So I'm looking through the list of questions I wanted to ⁓ cover and we covered pretty much everything. So thanks a lot for sharing and wish you best luck in what you're doing and what you're building. That's all hope for the Middle East situation to stabilize a bit because it brings a lot of... Dani Thomas: No, thank you. Yes, well I've seen my clients starting to travel so that's great news. Oleksij Rak: ⁓ Yeah, awesome. Awesome. Then thanks a lot and so Danny and have a great day. Dani Thomas: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Oleksij Rak: Thanks for coming.