Latest / 3 Martini Lunch – Political Humor & Commentary / Sunny Hostin’s Disturbing Holdout Juror Story in a Grisly Murder Case

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Sunny Hostin’s Disturbing Holdout Juror Story in a Grisly Murder Case · 3 Martini Lunch – Political Humor & Commentary

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch. Grab a stool next
0:05
Speaker 1: to Greg Karambas of Radio America and Jim Garrity of
0:08
Speaker 1: National Review.
0:10
Speaker 2: Three martinis coming up.
0:13
Speaker 1: So glad to have you for the Wednesday edition of
0:15
Speaker 1: the Three Martini Lunch. And Jim, sometimes a person who
0:19
Speaker 1: doesn't actually exist can be a good thing. You and
0:22
Speaker 1: I grew up in the 80s. where we had Knight Rider.
0:25
Speaker 1: And of course, Knight Rider was a shadowy flight into
0:28
Speaker 1: the dangerous world of a man who does not exist,
0:30
Speaker 1: meaning Michael Knight. Ten years later, we had Randall Stevens
0:33
Speaker 1: in Shawshank Redemption, which was a big part of the
0:37
Speaker 1: demise of Warden Norton and the escape of Andy Dufresne.
0:40
Speaker 1: But for the most part, fake people usually mean somebody
0:44
Speaker 1: is committing massive fraud, which, of course, Randall Stevens was
0:47
Speaker 1: in Shawshank Redemption. But Right now, we've got Vice President Vance.
0:53
Speaker 1: We've got Dr. Oz from the Center for Medicare and
0:55
Speaker 1: Medicaid Studies finding and rooting out fraud all over the place.
1:00
Speaker 1: We've seen it, of course, at the state level in Minnesota,
1:02
Speaker 1: California with the hospice over and over and over again.
1:06
Speaker 1: Barely real entities, only on paper. They're not doing any work.
1:09
Speaker 1: They come up with fake clients, but the government just
1:11
Speaker 1: keeps shelling out the money. Well, now the same is
1:13
Speaker 1: true when it comes to Obamacare subsidies, and the numbers
1:17
Speaker 1: are not small. Vice President Vance explaining just how many
1:21
Speaker 1: people they've kicked out of Obamacare enrollment. And there's a
1:24
Speaker 1: lot more. that they are still investigating.
1:26
Speaker 3: We are stopping Obamacare enrollment for about 750,000 people, 750,000
1:33
Speaker 3: people who we believe are fraudulently enrolled in the program.
1:37
Speaker 3: That's number one. The second thing that we're going to
1:39
Speaker 3: do is we're going to do some additional verification. We
1:41
Speaker 3: expect that most of these people are fraudulently enrolled, but
1:45
Speaker 3: we're going to do some additional verification on about 419,000 people.
1:48
Speaker 3: We're going to make sure that they're, first of all,
1:51
Speaker 3: legal residents of the United States of America and And
1:53
Speaker 3: second of all, we're going to make sure that they
1:55
Speaker 3: actually meet the income threshold requirements in order to receive
1:58
Speaker 3: these Obamacare benefits.
2:00
Speaker 1: So, Jim, if most of those people are also not
2:02
Speaker 1: supposed to be on the rolls, we're talking about a
2:04
Speaker 1: million people who are created, some of them on a
2:07
Speaker 1: whole cloth. And Vance is explaining how some of these
2:09
Speaker 1: fictional people end up on the rolls.
2:11
Speaker 3: In one case, we found a fraud ring that had
2:15
Speaker 3: 40 agents, 40 brokerage agents who had funneled 50,000 people
2:21
Speaker 3: into the Obamacare system fraudulently. Now, some of those people
2:25
Speaker 3: were probably legitimate. Most of those people were not eligible.
2:29
Speaker 3: Either they didn't meet the citizenship or the income requirements.
2:33
Speaker 3: Many of those people quite literally didn't even exist. We
2:37
Speaker 3: had a system in this country that rewarded brokers, that
2:41
Speaker 3: made people rich for enrolling fake people in programs that
2:45
Speaker 3: are meant to ensure that our fellow citizens have health care.
2:48
Speaker 2: This was a scandal.
2:49
Speaker 1: So, Jim, I mean, we've seen this over and over again.
2:52
Speaker 1: So good work here. I still think this is just
2:54
Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg, probably, given all the federal
2:57
Speaker 1: programs that are out there. But the more you dig,
3:00
Speaker 1: the more bad people are going to get nervous. And hopefully,
3:03
Speaker 1: as you root it out, you get less of this.
3:05
Speaker 2: We'll see. So, Greg, that was a wonderful introduction, but
3:08
Speaker 2: I'll dive into this in a second. But how do
3:10
Speaker 2: you mention Great non-existent Americans and not mention our frequent
3:15
Speaker 2: listener and frequent subject, Irving Schmidlapp, the representative of the
3:20
Speaker 2: non-existent American community, perennial presidential candidate at any other office
3:25
Speaker 2: in which there's an opening, usually on the Democratic side. Irving,
3:28
Speaker 2: we love you. No, first of all, I think one
3:31
Speaker 2: of the lessons– first of all, this is good to see.
3:34
Speaker 2: It is not surprising. Anytime you have a government program
3:37
Speaker 2: in which you're handing out benefits– There are people who
3:40
Speaker 2: are going to try to cheat. There are people who
3:42
Speaker 2: are going to try to collect benefits that they are
3:43
Speaker 2: not entitled to, that they are not eligible to. Or
3:46
Speaker 2: as we're seeing, they will make up someone and create
3:49
Speaker 2: this person and then try to collect benefits in their name.
3:53
Speaker 2: We saw in Minnesota over a cumulative several of these
3:57
Speaker 2: large-scale fraud scandals. And the state auditor who did a
4:00
Speaker 2: terrific job and kept testifying before the state legislature and saying,
4:02
Speaker 2: look– The people running these programs think of themselves as caregivers.
4:07
Speaker 2: They think of their job is to distribute as many
4:10
Speaker 2: benefits as possible to as many people as possible. And
4:14
Speaker 2: the idea that someone's trying to con them, the idea
4:17
Speaker 2: that someone's running a scam... It sounds like it almost
4:20
Speaker 2: literally never crossed their mind. It's not on their radar
4:24
Speaker 2: screen and they don't see it as part of their job. Well,
4:28
Speaker 2: if you're administering public benefits, it is part of your job.
4:31
Speaker 2: It is part of your public duties. And my suspicion
4:35
Speaker 2: is that as soon as one person makes a successful
4:37
Speaker 2: scam and starts collecting benefits they're not entitled to, They
4:41
Speaker 2: start telling their friends, oh, this is where I'm getting
4:43
Speaker 2: all that cash from. That's how you end up with
4:45
Speaker 2: these networks growing. We've always had fraud in government programs.
4:48
Speaker 2: It's just a fact of life. But I think it's
4:51
Speaker 2: very clear we now have it on a scale that
4:53
Speaker 2: we have not seen in previous generations. Because it is
4:56
Speaker 2: so evident that you can get away with this up
4:59
Speaker 2: until very recently. Obviously, we've seen some crackdowns in Minnesota. Hey,
5:02
Speaker 2: did you see in Minnesota who's running as a guy
5:05
Speaker 2: who's been fighting the fraud, Greg?
5:07
Speaker 1: Who's that?
5:08
Speaker 2: Keith Ellison, the state attorney general. who's done jack squat
5:12
Speaker 2: who's all of these scandals are on his watch and
5:15
Speaker 2: i'm the one fighting the front yeah yeah sure pal
5:17
Speaker 2: you're in fact talking with some of the people committing
5:19
Speaker 2: the fraud we have you looking for donations from them
5:23
Speaker 2: and and all that stuff so yeah so first of
5:24
Speaker 2: all good job really not surprising the scale of it
5:27
Speaker 2: is pretty surprising and uh hopefully we get more details
5:31
Speaker 2: on this as this investigation of fraud continues.
5:33
Speaker 1: Yeah and when dr oz was talking he talked about
5:36
Speaker 1: he had some pictures of the properties that these brokers
5:38
Speaker 1: had bought lavish properties down on the floor to Sure,
5:42
Speaker 1: from all this money they fleeced from American taxpayers. But
5:44
Speaker 1: I think the most telling thing that he said is
5:45
Speaker 1: from about 2015 to 2020, the Obamacare exchanges had about
5:49
Speaker 1: 10 million Americans on there. That was a pretty consistent number.
5:52
Speaker 1: During COVID, it jumped to 22 million. And a vast
5:55
Speaker 1: percentage of that, I can't remember the exact number, never,
5:58
Speaker 1: ever used it. So that's usually what happens when you
6:01
Speaker 1: don't exist. But not a prescription drug, not an annual checkup,
6:04
Speaker 1: nothing for years upon years upon years. That tells you
6:07
Speaker 1: that something's fishy.
6:08
Speaker 2: These are exceptionally healthy non-existent people. So good for them
6:11
Speaker 2: for taking care of themselves.
6:12
Speaker 1: Yes, yes. The non-existent community is very healthy. They almost
6:15
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8:00
Speaker 1: But anyway, let's get to our bad martini now. And
8:04
Speaker 1: this is bad, but not entirely unpredictable. You and I
8:07
Speaker 1: warned about this when Texas Republicans were doing this. And
8:10
Speaker 1: to some extent, when Florida Republicans were redrawing the map,
8:14
Speaker 1: there was kind of this, you know, ever expanding like
8:17
Speaker 1: start of World War I type thing where one state
8:19
Speaker 1: does this, the red state and the blue state and
8:20
Speaker 1: back and forth and on and on it goes. But
8:23
Speaker 1: at the time, it was kind of weird that Texas
8:25
Speaker 1: was trying to expand the map by assuming that That
8:27
Speaker 1: all those counties along the Mexican border that have been
8:30
Speaker 1: blue forever but went for red because and Donald Trump
8:33
Speaker 1: because of Biden's horrific performance on the border. Republicans just assume, well,
8:38
Speaker 1: obviously they're going to vote Republican forever. Turns out that's
8:41
Speaker 1: not what happens. Elections are not static. The New York
8:44
Speaker 1: Times was some polling. And let's be clear, the New
8:46
Speaker 1: York Times polling generally when matched up against actual election
8:51
Speaker 1: day and final election results is usually tilting several points
8:54
Speaker 1: to the left. But even if that's the case here,
8:56
Speaker 1: this is not good news for Republicans. And so the
8:59
Speaker 1: New York Times analysis shows a number of districts in
9:02
Speaker 1: Texas that are shifting pretty far to the left, even
9:04
Speaker 1: if they're still technically likely to go for the Republicans.
9:08
Speaker 1: For example, the 28th District of Texas shifting 31 points
9:12
Speaker 1: to the left and well into pro-democratic territory. 34th District
9:16
Speaker 1: plus 24, 15th plus 25 for the Democrats compared to
9:20
Speaker 1: two years ago. plus 16 in the 35th district, plus
9:24
Speaker 1: 18 in the 23rd district, plus 16, but still on
9:26
Speaker 1: the Republican side in the 9th district. In Florida, the
9:30
Speaker 1: 26th district has shifted plus 25 towards the Democrats, and
9:33
Speaker 1: that would put them up a little less than 10 points.
9:36
Speaker 1: 27th district, plus 21, on and on it goes. And
9:40
Speaker 1: so there's half a dozen seats or more in each
9:43
Speaker 1: state that are shifting dramatically here. So we'll see if
9:47
Speaker 1: the polls match up. We saw really inaccurate polls during
9:49
Speaker 1: the primaries and Who knows how accurate they are now.
9:52
Speaker 1: But when the trend is kind of all in one
9:54
Speaker 1: direction and by fairly dramatic numbers, it turns out, Jim,
9:57
Speaker 1: that having a decent number of deep red districts might
10:01
Speaker 1: be better in some cases, especially in a climate like this,
10:04
Speaker 1: than having more slightly red districts.
10:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think what I find, you know, you
10:10
Speaker 2: and I talked about the likelihood of this scenario. It's
10:13
Speaker 2: very easy to understand if you're a Texas Latino voter
10:16
Speaker 2: who traditionally votes Democrat's why you might be really frustrated
10:20
Speaker 2: with Joe Biden and then Kamala Harris in 2024. Inflation
10:24
Speaker 2: had reached 9%. Cost of living was very high. You've
10:27
Speaker 2: got a lot of guys who have their own construction business,
10:31
Speaker 2: their own landscaping business. There are a lot of small
10:35
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs in there. The cost of living gets very high.
10:38
Speaker 2: Cost of fuel gets very high. Well, people are going
10:40
Speaker 2: to say, I'm fed up with the Democrats. Trump looks
10:42
Speaker 2: like he's doing. People have happy memories of the economy
10:45
Speaker 2: of 2017, 2018, 2019. Let's go back with Trump and
10:48
Speaker 2: see if he can do it again. Well, here we are.
10:51
Speaker 2: Gas is now very expensive. Gas is, you know, an hour,
10:53
Speaker 2: I believe a buck and 20 than it was a
10:55
Speaker 2: year ago. Diesel fuel is really expensive. And of course,
10:59
Speaker 2: lots of trucks are running on diesel fuel, particularly the
11:01
Speaker 2: trucking industry. Everything you transport gets on that. So it's
11:04
Speaker 2: not surprising that this demographic that had been, again, I
11:08
Speaker 2: don't know if this group was ever like, there was
11:10
Speaker 2: never any indication this group was going to permanently switch
11:12
Speaker 2: to Trump. I think you could characterize them as Trump
11:15
Speaker 2: curious people. Trump experimental, willing to roll the dice on it,
11:18
Speaker 2: but the idea that this was going to switch this
11:20
Speaker 2: way and it was going to last was always an
11:24
Speaker 2: iffy proposition. Back when I did my back-of-the-envelope math and
11:27
Speaker 2: looked at all the redistricting wars, I came out with
11:29
Speaker 2: a net eight more districts that were friendlier to Republicans
11:33
Speaker 2: in 2026 than they were in 2024, but that came
11:36
Speaker 2: with a big caveat. In Texas, as you mentioned, they
11:39
Speaker 2: withdrew it, so there were supposed to be five more
11:41
Speaker 2: Republican districts, but this was, again, using these southern border
11:45
Speaker 2: counties— They were heavily Latino. So of those eight, five
11:49
Speaker 2: are in that category. We're like, not so sure. And again,
11:53
Speaker 2: you know, if you want to argue that the New
11:54
Speaker 2: York Times, I believe they work with Siena. And I
11:56
Speaker 2: think they're like, look, they're not making up the numbers.
11:59
Speaker 2: And the other thing is that let's say, all right,
12:01
Speaker 2: you're talking to these margin 31 point shift, 15 point shift,
12:04
Speaker 2: 16 point shift. Look, when it's when the margins that big,
12:08
Speaker 2: even if they're off by five percentage points, that's still
12:10
Speaker 2: very bad news for the Republicans in those seats. We
12:13
Speaker 2: will see what happens. And in fact, Greg, I think
12:15
Speaker 2: I got to get down there just to see what's
12:17
Speaker 2: going to happen.
12:19
Speaker 1: We can mention that a little bit later in the
12:20
Speaker 1: podcast as well. But yeah, it's frustrating to see this developing.
12:26
Speaker 1: We'll see what actually happens with the final results. I
12:28
Speaker 1: think the assumption was that the border's quiet, certainly compared
12:32
Speaker 1: to the absolute chaos that had happened. But other issues
12:35
Speaker 1: then pop up and are more the focus, as we've
12:38
Speaker 1: talked about a number of times as well. I think
12:39
Speaker 1: they're grateful that the border's a lot calmer, that things
12:42
Speaker 1: are are not like they were four years ago or
12:44
Speaker 1: even two years ago, but other factors are playing in
12:48
Speaker 1: here as well. But when we come back, Jim, boy,
12:51
Speaker 1: you thought the controversy over the holdout juror in Massachusetts
12:54
Speaker 1: was a strange case. Talk about the holdout juror that
12:58
Speaker 1: sits on the panel of The View every day. We'll
13:00
Speaker 1: get to that in just a second.
13:03
Speaker 4: Thank you.
13:06
Speaker 1: All right, Jim, we've heard so much over the past
13:08
Speaker 1: couple of weeks about the holdout juror in the Clancy trial.
13:11
Speaker 1: And now we even have a name in most media
13:14
Speaker 1: circles of this person. I'm not going to say it.
13:16
Speaker 1: But the fact that the left's narratives on so many
13:20
Speaker 1: things blew up as a result of this case, it was,
13:23
Speaker 1: you know, turned about to be a black immigrant from Haiti.
13:26
Speaker 1: I mean, you just can't even script this anymore. And
13:29
Speaker 1: the left is just appalled by this. Gayle King had
13:31
Speaker 1: to sit with that for a moment. But over on
13:33
Speaker 1: another network morning show, of course, you've got The View.
13:37
Speaker 1: And Sunny Hostin, she is an attorney. She may have
13:40
Speaker 1: helped defeat Kamala Harris a couple of years ago by
13:43
Speaker 1: simply asking her what she would have done differently than
13:45
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. And Kamala Harris had no answer for that.
13:48
Speaker 1: But as they were talking about, I don't know if
13:51
Speaker 1: it was the Clancy interview of the husband there, the
13:54
Speaker 1: ex-husband on 60 Minutes or something else. But she was
13:57
Speaker 1: talking about how she believed that, you know, the 11
14:00
Speaker 1: jurors who wanted to acquit Lindsay Clancy had it right.
14:03
Speaker 1: She then revealed, Sunny Hostin, that she was a juror
14:06
Speaker 1: years and years ago on a very grisly case. And
14:10
Speaker 1: she was the lone holdout that eventually, supposedly, walked everyone
14:13
Speaker 1: over to her side and found someone guilty of murder
14:16
Speaker 1: and a whole lot more, not guilty by reason of insanity.
14:19
Speaker 1: Longer clip, but it's worth it. Trust me.
14:22
Speaker 4: The insanity defense has been around in Massachusetts for 182 years.
14:25
Speaker 4: So I think it's well established. And I thought absolutely
14:30
Speaker 4: that she was not criminally responsible for By reason of insanity.
14:34
Speaker 4: And the reason I felt that I feel so strongly
14:37
Speaker 4: about this holdout juror is because I was a holdout juror.
14:40
Speaker 4: In a case, in the Daniel Rakowitz case, I don't
14:42
Speaker 4: know if people remember it, the butcher of Tompkins Square Park.
14:45
Speaker 1: It was in 1990.
14:45
Speaker 4: The guy who ate the victims?
14:47
Speaker 1: Yes.
14:48
Speaker 4: You were on that jury?
14:49
Speaker 2: You're going to need to explain more. Yes, I was.
14:51
Speaker 2: Were you on the lawyer already?
14:53
Speaker 4: It was before I went to law school. Oh, because
14:56
Speaker 4: I would have never put you on the jury. And
14:58
Speaker 4: when I brought it up at the Hot Topics meeting,
15:00
Speaker 4: I don't think everyone believed me. And then my producer
15:03
Speaker 4: looked it up, and I'm in the New York Times.
15:05
Speaker 4: And apparently several jurors questioned afterwards said one holdout juror
15:10
Speaker 4: was principally responsible for preventing them from returning a guilty verdict.
15:16
Speaker 4: That was me. And it was because I saw clearly
15:19
Speaker 4: that he was psychotic. cause he was in a psychosis
15:24
Speaker 4: he did not mean to kill her and once he
15:27
Speaker 4: killed her he panicked he he chopped up her body
15:30
Speaker 4: parts yes boiled her body parts tried to commit the
15:33
Speaker 4: perfect crime and then.
15:34
Speaker 2: You got this guy off and no.
15:36
Speaker 4: No no and but but he said he that's how
15:40
Speaker 4: much i believe in the insanity defense and he fed
15:42
Speaker 4: her body parts to the unhoused excuse me can i
15:45
Speaker 4: move over i don't need to be around but But
15:48
Speaker 4: all that being said, it was so clear to me
15:51
Speaker 4: in the jury. And we were sequestered for nine days.
15:53
Speaker 4: One juror threw a chair at me. They were so
15:56
Speaker 4: angry with me. But one by one, I picked them
15:58
Speaker 4: off and said, what about this? What about that? And
16:00
Speaker 4: we ended up, all 12, unanimously voting that he was
16:04
Speaker 4: not criminally responsible.
16:06
Speaker 1: That's my issue. Jim, I think the other 11 wanted
16:10
Speaker 1: to get away from the psychotic juror, but I saw
16:13
Speaker 1: you taking copious notes there. What do you make of
16:15
Speaker 1: that insane description of her being proud of this guy
16:18
Speaker 1: not being convicted for murder?
16:20
Speaker 2: First of all, Greg, you beat me to the punchline
16:21
Speaker 2: because I was going to say, would I be willing
16:24
Speaker 2: to let a guy who boiled his girlfriend and fed
16:27
Speaker 2: her to the homeless, would I be willing to let
16:29
Speaker 2: the guy go not guilty by reason of insanity if
16:32
Speaker 2: it got me away from Sonny Hostin? Yeah, baby. I'd
16:35
Speaker 2: be very tempted to, right? So first of all, Greg,
16:39
Speaker 2: a lot of people say we should do more to
16:40
Speaker 2: help the homeless. This man did something about it. He
16:43
Speaker 2: didn't just talk about it. You know, he walked the walk.
16:46
Speaker 2: He didn't just talk the talk. Second of all, the
16:49
Speaker 2: butcher of Thompson Square Park. First of all, if the
16:51
Speaker 2: guy's nicknamed that, that's my first suspicion that something's not
16:54
Speaker 2: good there. Right.
16:55
Speaker 1: You know.
16:56
Speaker 2: They didn't call him the pickleball player of that. They
16:59
Speaker 2: didn't call him the gregarious, no, the butcher. So I
17:03
Speaker 2: just want to observe that guy since then has been
17:06
Speaker 2: out of work for a while and now he runs
17:07
Speaker 2: a catering business. So there's a happy ending to that. No,
17:09
Speaker 2: I'm making that up. He's not, as far as I know,
17:12
Speaker 2: he's still in an insane asylum. I hope he's still
17:14
Speaker 2: in an insane asylum. I sit there and, you know,
17:19
Speaker 2: Sonny Hostin apparently is utterly, like, I guess the question
17:23
Speaker 2: then is like, so you've done something murderous in your mania, right?
17:28
Speaker 2: What should happen then? What should the consequences be? And
17:33
Speaker 2: if the argument is that prison is not right because
17:36
Speaker 2: this person has their voices, they have some imbalance in
17:40
Speaker 2: their brain chemistry or something like that. All right. I
17:43
Speaker 2: think a lot of us get very more than a
17:46
Speaker 2: little upset when we see someone like John Hinckley Jr.,
17:50
Speaker 2: who shot at the president, paralyzed the White House press secretary,
17:54
Speaker 2: I believe. Didn't he kill somebody as well? And he's
17:57
Speaker 2: out walking free. And I just have this feeling that
17:59
Speaker 2: had Lee Harvey Oswald not been killed by Jack Ruby,
18:03
Speaker 2: and if he had pled insanity, I don't think he'd
18:05
Speaker 2: ever be walking the streets. I don't think we are
18:08
Speaker 2: okay with presidential assassins and letting Hinckley out, you know,
18:12
Speaker 2: kind of gives me that feeling. We talked about my
18:15
Speaker 2: trip to the Cuban embassy and the fact that there
18:17
Speaker 2: was a guy who shot a rifle at the Cuban
18:19
Speaker 2: embassy back in 2020. Cops caught the guy immediately. He
18:23
Speaker 2: pled guilty or he pled insanity. And in the federal system,
18:28
Speaker 2: if you're found not guilty by reason of insanity, you
18:30
Speaker 2: stay in either prison or a insane asylum until the
18:34
Speaker 2: government determines you are no longer a threat to people. Well,
18:37
Speaker 2: in this case, they did it in four and a
18:38
Speaker 2: half years. And the Cuban government is pretty PO'd about that.
18:42
Speaker 2: And I kind of begrudge them that if you raise
18:45
Speaker 2: a rifle and shoot at a building, now, thankfully, nobody
18:48
Speaker 2: was hurt. But like, should you be allowed to walk
18:52
Speaker 2: the street a free person after that? I assume the
18:54
Speaker 2: person is on some sort of medication. I assume they're.
18:57
Speaker 2: regularly seeing a therapist or something like... By the way,
18:59
Speaker 2: if you're running around murdering people, BetterHelp is excellent. But
19:02
Speaker 2: that's a really tall order, even for the good people
19:04
Speaker 2: at BetterHelp. So I think a lot of us kind
19:07
Speaker 2: of feel like if you kill someone, at minimum, you
19:11
Speaker 2: should never walk the streets of Freepan again. You can't
19:14
Speaker 2: be trusted with that kind of freedom. What happens if
19:17
Speaker 2: you stop taking your meds? What happens if you stop
19:20
Speaker 2: seeing your therapist? What happens... How do we... If this
19:23
Speaker 2: could happen to you once... How do we know you're
19:26
Speaker 2: not going to do this again? And it's a lot
19:28
Speaker 2: to put in the hands of an antipsychotic medication. So
19:32
Speaker 2: there we are. Boy, oh boy, Sonny Hostin. But if
19:35
Speaker 2: there was any member of The View who was going
19:37
Speaker 2: to take this stance, didn't we kind of know deep
19:39
Speaker 2: down it was going to be Sonny Hostin?
19:41
Speaker 1: Yes. So she says that he didn't mean to kill
19:45
Speaker 1: his wife. There's a lot of questions I have about that.
19:47
Speaker 1: Did he trip?
19:48
Speaker 2: He was holding the steak knife and he.
19:50
Speaker 1: you know about that? And then she says, well, then
19:52
Speaker 1: he panicked and chopped her up, cooked her up and
19:54
Speaker 1: fed her to the homeless. So is that part where
19:56
Speaker 1: he panics? Is that still psychosis?
19:58
Speaker 2: How long does the panic last? How many servings have
20:02
Speaker 2: you given to the homeless? Oh, trust me, it's just stew.
20:05
Speaker 2: You're going to love it. But which is Stu was
20:09
Speaker 2: the name of the wife. No, the like how much cannibalism,
20:13
Speaker 2: how much involuntary cannibalism could you do until eventually the
20:18
Speaker 2: state is like, no, we're putting you behind bars. You're
20:20
Speaker 2: never going out there, buddy. You've crossed the line. That
20:23
Speaker 2: is not acceptable. We cannot allow people. to cook their girlfriends.
20:30
Speaker 2: That's just too much to ask.
20:32
Speaker 1: That seems like a pretty good standard. It should be
20:34
Speaker 1: even tougher than that, but that standard at least should
20:36
Speaker 1: be in place. And so I think New York, you
20:38
Speaker 1: don't have to prove the person wasn't insane like you
20:41
Speaker 1: do in Massachusetts, but that should have been pretty much
20:44
Speaker 1: an open and shut case.
20:46
Speaker 2: But you always get Sonny Hostin on the jury.
20:47
Speaker 1: I mean, usually the standard is, did they know what
20:52
Speaker 1: they were doing was wrong? So I guess your only
20:54
Speaker 1: defense in that case is when George Costanza on Seinfeld
20:57
Speaker 1: had the inappropriate relationship with the cleaning woman. He got
20:59
Speaker 1: fired for it. And he said, was that wrong? Should
21:02
Speaker 1: I not have done that? I think when in the
21:04
Speaker 1: case of this butcher that got that nickname, you could
21:09
Speaker 1: pretty much tell that I think he knew what he
21:10
Speaker 1: was doing was wrong, because usually you don't try to
21:12
Speaker 1: cover it up the way he did.
21:13
Speaker 2: But your honor, your honor, my client has always had
21:16
Speaker 2: a passion for cooking. And has dreamed of being a
21:19
Speaker 2: famous chef. And this was the easiest path forward. He
21:21
Speaker 2: wanted a really unique culinary path to explore.
21:25
Speaker 1: What is it about the cannibals in the 80s and
21:27
Speaker 1: early 90s? That's two now that I'm aware of. This
21:29
Speaker 1: guy plus Dahmer. So anyway, we'll get on to better stuff.
21:33
Speaker 1: In fact, if you need a drink about this, we'll
21:35
Speaker 1: head to a beer garden in just a second and
21:37
Speaker 1: find out why that's really racist. All right, Jim and
21:44
Speaker 1: our chaser today, David Crowley is the normal, the moderate
21:48
Speaker 1: Democrat nominee for governor in Wisconsin. Not like that crazy socialist,
21:52
Speaker 1: Francesca Hong. David Crowley has been for several years now
21:57
Speaker 1: the Milwaukee County executive. And just like with Francesca Hong,
22:02
Speaker 1: Twitter never forgets. There was a report from WPR, Wisconsin
22:06
Speaker 1: Public Radio, back in December 2021 that says Milwaukee County
22:10
Speaker 1: executive David Crowley has warned Parks face a fiscal cliff
22:13
Speaker 1: in six years if additional funding isn't found. They quote
22:16
Speaker 1: him saying, I think it's important to understand that the
22:18
Speaker 1: way we fund parks is just not sustainable. At which
22:21
Speaker 1: point Crowley then chimes in on Twitter saying, past heavy
22:24
Speaker 1: reliance on revenues to keep the system going is not
22:27
Speaker 1: sustainable and doesn't cover the need. When a system's operational
22:30
Speaker 1: budget is so heavily reliant on user revenues to survive
22:33
Speaker 1: like parks is, there's often a very real conflict between
22:36
Speaker 1: generating money and racial equity. Revenues often come from activities
22:41
Speaker 1: that those with discretionary funding can afford, like golf, the marina,
22:44
Speaker 1: and beer gardens. These activities are traditionally and predominantly supported
22:49
Speaker 1: by white users. This racial inequity is born from a history,
22:52
Speaker 1: of course, Jim, of systemic racism and injustice. I don't
22:57
Speaker 1: know if he's planning to chalk this up to woke one,
22:59
Speaker 1: but I didn't realize drinking beer was racist.
23:02
Speaker 2: Happy Oktoberfest, everyone. So first of all, I will give
23:06
Speaker 2: one molecule of forgiveness in the recognition that, Greg, I
23:11
Speaker 2: don't know about you, but whenever I hear the melodic,
23:15
Speaker 2: easygoing German language, my mind flashes to an Indiana Jones movie, right? Like,
23:20
Speaker 2: you know, like. French is always... Whereas German always sounds...
23:27
Speaker 2: It is hard, guttural, angry. And I suppose if you just... Oh,
23:32
Speaker 2: beer garden, German. It must be connected to the Nazis somehow.
23:35
Speaker 2: It is not. It is a Munich tradition going back
23:38
Speaker 2: way before the Nazis. There's really nothing racist about it.
23:42
Speaker 2: But if you just hear Germans, the language German or
23:46
Speaker 2: German words... And somewhere in the back of your mind,
23:49
Speaker 2: Norm MacDonald pops up and says, I don't know if
23:52
Speaker 2: you guys are history buffs or not, but not everything
23:55
Speaker 2: German is bad and scary and evil or something like that.
23:59
Speaker 2: And also, Greg, it's Wisconsin. Do people in Wisconsin like beer?
24:03
Speaker 1: They do, more than any other state, I believe.
24:05
Speaker 2: I was going to say, oh, not only like beer,
24:06
Speaker 2: like they make every other state look like amateurs. Yes.
24:11
Speaker 2: There are Europeans who are like, whoa, we can't go
24:13
Speaker 2: toe-to-toe with those folks. And are there German-Americans in Wisconsin?
24:18
Speaker 2: I've been out to Milwaukee. I've been out to Kohler.
24:21
Speaker 2: The names should kind of give you a signal, even
24:23
Speaker 2: though Miliwake actually means the good land in Algonquin, as
24:26
Speaker 2: we all know, because of Professor Alex Cooper. But not
24:29
Speaker 2: like of all the things you could be. Just as
24:33
Speaker 2: Abdul El-Sayed said that cars are the cigarettes of the
24:38
Speaker 2: 21st century. Hey, Greg, you have some roots in Michigan.
24:42
Speaker 2: Are cars a big deal in the state of Michigan?
24:44
Speaker 2: Do people take pride in their cars? So you've got
24:47
Speaker 2: a Democrat running against cars in Michigan and against beer
24:52
Speaker 2: in Wisconsin. All of a sudden, Francesca Hong is like, look,
24:55
Speaker 2: I just had a problem with apple pie. I just
24:57
Speaker 2: hated holidays, right? Second look at Francesca Hong. Yeah.
25:01
Speaker 1: I mean, Milwaukee is not the place to say that.
25:03
Speaker 1: There literally is a suburb of Milwaukee called Germantown. So
25:06
Speaker 1: that should be a clue. And, you know, and the beer,
25:09
Speaker 1: you know, that's the home of Miller. It's the home
25:11
Speaker 1: of Pabst. It's the home of Schlitz. I don't think
25:12
Speaker 1: they make that anymore. It's the home of old style.
25:14
Speaker 1: I mean, on and on it goes. Blatz, I think,
25:17
Speaker 1: was originally from there. So, I mean, you could literally
25:19
Speaker 1: go to the old Milwaukee Brewers ballpark, which is right
25:21
Speaker 1: next to the Miller Brewery, and the smell would waft
25:24
Speaker 1: over the whole stadium. So, when they call them the Brewers,
25:27
Speaker 1: they mean it. So, good luck there, David Crowley. Not really. Hopefully,
25:30
Speaker 1: Tom Tiffany can pull that off, but... Man, the Internet
25:33
Speaker 1: never forgets. And sometimes it's fun to see it.
25:35
Speaker 2: The trips I've taken out to Wisconsin have involved good meals,
25:39
Speaker 2: good sausage and good beer. I was like, traditionally, Democrats
25:42
Speaker 2: do better amongst women voters than than Republicans do. But
25:46
Speaker 2: you keep talking like this, Greg, you know, this guy's
25:49
Speaker 2: going to lose both Laverne and Shirley.
25:52
Speaker 1: Exactly. Well, you're not headed to Wisconsin. You're heading to
25:56
Speaker 1: Texas for the next couple of days. So I guess
25:58
Speaker 1: we'll see on Monday.
25:59
Speaker 2: The Texas Tribune Festival is in Austin. I'll be– or
26:02
Speaker 2: at least I'm– presuming I get there in one piece.
26:06
Speaker 2: Let's see how the flights go. I will be interviewing
26:08
Speaker 2: Kevin Stitt, the Republican governor of Oklahoma, and then participating
26:12
Speaker 2: in a panel on the midterm elections. And so, yeah,
26:15
Speaker 2: I will be back on Monday. All will be back
26:16
Speaker 2: to normal. But it's Austin. So I expect to see,
26:20
Speaker 2: you know, again, good tacos, good beer out there. And
26:22
Speaker 2: I guess a Waymo taxi. Try not to get hit
26:24
Speaker 2: by one of those.
26:25
Speaker 1: Oh, it should be fun. Have fun with all the
26:28
Speaker 1: Longhorn fans and all the weird people in Austin. So, Jim,
26:31
Speaker 1: have a safe trip. We'll see you Monday.
26:32
Speaker 2: See you Monday, Greg.
26:33
Speaker 1: Jim Garrity, National Review. I'm Greg Karumbas of Radio America.
26:36
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26:38
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26:58
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