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Ep.3 - Is Battle for Azeroth One Of The Best Expansions? · Azeroth With Attitude

• 0:03
  Speaker A: Azeroth With Attitudes. Welcome everyone to Azeroth With Attitude. My name is 8bit Dylan.
• 0:15
  Speaker B: Hi. And my name is Artemius.
• 0:17
  Speaker A: And we are two hot messes that love to play some World of Warcraft. And today's episode, baby, is going to be a controversial one because we are, we're getting into it. Absolutely. Because we are standing on our soapbox and talking about why Battle for Azeroth is actually a really good expansion in World of Warcraft and the stand on.
• 0:43
  Speaker B: Business when it comes to as well.
• 0:45
  Speaker A: Exactly. I. Before we like get into like the meat and potatoes of it all and like the real like huge reasons why we like Battle for Azeroth, I just want to say I am so excited that we've done like three episodes. This is our third episode of Azeroth With Attitude.
• 1:07
  Speaker B: I know. Sickening.
• 1:08
  Speaker A: Sickening. If you are watching this, we have kind of like pre recorded a bunch of episodes. So this is like a little bit past Christmas.
• 1:19
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 1:20
  Speaker A: For, for the both of us. So eventually we'll cover more like recent stuff that's happening. But I just want to say I'm just so excited that we were like three episodes deep now.
• 1:32
  Speaker B: I know we already kind of developed like this flow and I love it. I think it's great. I'm so excited about it.
• 1:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, we're, we're peak stupid and I, I hope people enjoy the stupidity. Exactly. So I want to know you. We both kind of really, really started diving into World of Warcraft around bfa.
• 1:57
  Speaker B: It's funny that we both did that actually.
• 1:59
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Like I played Legion and like Legion was good but like I, I think like really made like content like I was streaming bfa. I remember that back in the day. So I want to know why do you think people tend to forget about bfa? Because I know that Shadowlands is known as like the, the ugly stepchild of expansions, maybe a little bit of Warlords of Drayner, but I think BFA is forgotten about a lot.
• 2:34
  Speaker B: You're right. Yeah. I do sort of wonder why that, why that, why that's the case. Because BFA was. Had such a major impact on the stories and has some of the like the craziest things happen in bfa. I'm just, I mean just think about the world tree. Like yeah, crazy. That was pre patch but still crazy things happen in bfa. Which by the way, you'll never be able to replay that. That patch by the way, which is crazy. Such an iconic huge moment in lore. You'll never be able to Replay that. Because it's pre patch. That's weird. I. They. They stopped doing major lore stuff in pre patches. But that. I just. I just thought of that randomly. But yeah, I don't know. Be it. People do forget about BFA a lot. Even though it was probably the long. Wasn't it the longest expansion we've ever had?
• 3:22
  Speaker A: I. I think so.
• 3:23
  Speaker B: Because of it.
• 3:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. I. If I remember correctly, there was like a significant gap after Mechagon and there was just like radio silence from World of Warcraft, wasn't it, for like four to six months. Like, there was just like nothing.
• 3:43
  Speaker B: It took ages. It was the. So there was. There was four major patches back then because right now we only have three. So back then it was. We had the first one, which was Uldir, which I didn't play. I started in Battle of Daza'. Alor. Incredible raid.
• 3:59
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 4:00
  Speaker B: Then there was Azshara the Ashara raid with Mechagon and Nazjatar. And then we had Nylofo with Nizoth.
• 4:06
  Speaker A: That's.
• 4:07
  Speaker B: And I remember that one taking forever. It took so long that my shitty ass raid, my shitty ray got all the way on Mythic to Nazoff. That's how long it took for this. That's how long it took. This patch was taking. Because if my raid can get all the way to the last Mythic boss, you know, it's a long patch. Yeah. Um, so I remember that and I remember all of us, like, kind of like quitting, being like, oh, you know, we're not gonna pursue, like, getting Nazoff down because Shadowlands is about to launch. Guess what, Diva? Not gonna launch for another, like, two to three months. So I think BFA is sort of like, people try to forget about it because, you know, you know, when you try to, you know, when, like, you have trauma and your body just forgets about it to, like, protect itself. I think that's why people do it. And I don't get it. I don't get it. I loved bfa.
• 5:02
  Speaker A: I mean, yeah.
• 5:03
  Speaker B: Clear from the episode, but I think that's why. I don't know. I genuinely don't know why.
• 5:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think for me, I think we. We. I think you and I are the type of people. I think we do tend to dwell on the things that we like around World of Warcraft, but I do think that there was. There was a lot of bad that did come out of bfa. Like, I remember Azerite being a very controversial addition to the game, and it was boring. It was Very boring. And they thought they were eating. They really like, kind of centered the entire expansion around azerite and grinding for azerite. And that's how you gained a majority of your power.
• 5:49
  Speaker B: Azerite power was definitely the think that people hated the most. For sure.
• 5:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I also remember people not really enjoying the island expeditions. They just, they were touted as one thing and then really just kind of became very samesy very quickly. But I, I like them. Me too.
• 6:12
  Speaker B: I loved them.
• 6:14
  Speaker A: I thought they were fun.
• 6:15
  Speaker B: I. Me too. I just thought they were smart. So fierce. I love them. Another thing that I remember, people hated and I personally hated so, so, so much. So I started obviously playing BFA very casually. Didn't really participate in any, like, endgame content. But then later on I made some friends and then they kind of got me into some M. And I was like, oh my God, like, this is so cool. Like, I can actually, like, you know, like, like, like I can learn a skill in World of Warcraft. Like, I can get better at this game. Like, there's so much to learn, you know, And I got really into it. And then obviously that, that, that led to me getting into armor and min maxing and then do you remember the azerite powers on your armor that you had to like, slot in? They had like their own talent trees and you weren't there was obviously it always tells you this one's the best for you. I know there's variety, but this one's best for you. So you should farm this one. I tried to farm this one. It.
• 7:07
  Speaker A: You.
• 7:08
  Speaker B: It wasn't something you could target. Yeah. And then to compensate for not being able to target it, you could play the lottery where you would spend a currency and you would do it once a week and it would give you a random piece. And I, until the end, I think I never finished like my chest piece. And that was horrible. That was horrible.
• 7:28
  Speaker A: I do remember this and I remember it really making a lot of people mad. I. I think the way that we're going to structure today's episode, normally it's just, just us gabbing, but because we're talking about like one specific topic, I think it'd be good for us to like, break down the details of it all. So we're going to start with the story and what we liked about the story. The Horde, the alliance. I think it'd be then fun to maybe talk about, like, things we liked about Nazjatar and Mechagon and those like, kind of further patches of it. And then Maybe we can more then get into like the meta commentary of BFA where I think people herald BFA is like the last Warcraft of World of Warcraft. I think like after BFA we kind of lose the whole giant war that's happening and our thoughts around that. So I think we should start off baby with the story because BFA brings the story, mama.
• 8:35
  Speaker B: It really does. It really does. I was so gagged like, like going into like sneaking into Stormwind to free. Did we free Talanji? I think. Yeah.
• 8:46
  Speaker A: Princess Talanji.
• 8:47
  Speaker B: Oh my God, Talanji. Incredible character voice acting. 10 out of 10. Her going on that ship and like casting like the rockets like fly off beers. Yeah.
• 9:00
  Speaker A: The storm, she's just like, like the storm comes out.
• 9:04
  Speaker B: It was amazing. It was.
• 9:06
  Speaker A: She nitro boosts the ship like away from the outside. She's like, let's r. I.
• 9:15
  Speaker B: Oh, also, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we get into that part, there was the. There was the cinematic where like Lon gets attacked by the Alliance. Oh, oh, Myas goes for the Horde and all. Then like, then Anduin casts down that like, big light. Wow. Cinematic. I think that might be one of the most. That might be the most iconic cinematic we've ever had.
• 9:39
  Speaker A: Speak on that. No, for real, it. I. I'm literally getting goosebumps thinking about that cinematic. Like, it is so good. Even if you're like, whether for the alliance or the Horde, it. That cinematic perfectly encapsulates World of Warcraft. Like, yes, it is two sides going head to head on Lordaeron, which has a lot of history behind it. And I, I think overall liked the direction, like the beginning, the middle and the end of what happens with Lordaeron. Especially Sylvanas having her moment where she like, at the end of the story just kind of blights the entire thing. And it's like, you know what? Not. None of you, none of you bitches are getting it. Like, she just. She goes in. Okay, so let's start at the beginning of the story. Pre patch so we post Legion.
• 10:37
  Speaker B: Craziest part.
• 10:38
  Speaker A: It's insane because if you're a Horde player, you've been kind of getting like flip flopped on who's the war chief of the Horde for quite a while. Like, you're like, yeah, it's like orcs are controlling the Horde. And then Vol' Jin Volgin was there for a hot second and said, bye, girl.
• 11:00
  Speaker B: And then she just. She stout.
• 11:04
  Speaker A: In a very sad, very sad way. Volgin. Yeah, yeah, goes bye bye. And then he weirdly gives the title of warchief to Sylvanas, which we then later in Shadowlands, learn why he gave it to Sylvanas. It had to do with, like, the jailer's manipulations and. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. But I can tell you, if I didn't know I was gay until that moment, the minute Sylvanas became War Chief, I gay gasped. Like no gay has ever gasped before.
• 11:45
  Speaker B: We heard a purse falling. Yeah, the purse hit the floor. Yeah, no, absolutely. It was so incredibly gaggy. Like, I, I, I came to BFA not really knowing her that much. Yeah. And I was instantly obsessed with her. Instantly. Like, the way she, like, carries herself, her boys, her, like, arrogance, her, like, I'm better than everybody. I just love that. As long as it's a woman, you know?
• 12:10
  Speaker A: Exactly. I also love that she. We'll learn later that, you know, I. Sylvanas's character storyline is kind of all over the place, but she, I think, really signified a character that was ha. In World of Warcraft that was evil and loved the fact that she was evil. Like, she's like, baby, if we're gonna win a war, we're committing war crimes. She's like, we're blighting the whole town. We are resurrecting the dead against their will.
• 12:41
  Speaker B: It definitely felt like that in bfa. Obviously, we found out reasons why she did things, but later on, which is like a little messy, but yeah, it definitely felt like that. Like, she just felt like she was pure evil. Like it was, she was power hungry. She wanted all the azerite for herself. And she's gonna commit war crimes. Yeah.
• 13:00
  Speaker A: And I, I think what I really appreciated about Sylvanas as the warchief is she didn't absolutely did not let the alliance push her around. Like, she was just like, no, baby, we have a war to win. And like, I think that's why I really liked BFA on the Horde side. Because if you play from the alliance side, you, you get a different type of storyline and you kind of sort of see the fracturing of the Horde. But if you play as a Horde, specifically if you play as an undead, because I played as an undead during bfa. That is fascinating because if I remember.
• 13:40
  Speaker B: How you get to even. Oh, my God, there's so much to talk about. There's so much happens.
• 13:43
  Speaker A: There's a ton that happens for the undead in bfa, but I loved it because I didn't realize that World of Warcraft will sometimes alter the text based off of what your character is. So if I remember correctly, if you play as an undead on the Horde. Well, obviously you have to be on the Horde in bfa. Nathanos and Sylvanas talk to you a bit differently, and they just expect your loyalty because you're an undead. So it's just, like, fascinating to play as because you. You really do feel like you kind of betray Sylvanas in order to, you know, fight the good fight. But a part of me was like, yeah, I think you can also be loyal to Silvan. Yes.
• 14:31
  Speaker B: That was the part that was. Yeah. Like, where you. Where you were able to pick if you want to be a Sylvanas loyalist. Yeah. Or if you're, like, going against her. That is. I just love that.
• 14:40
  Speaker A: That.
• 14:41
  Speaker B: That just kind of makes the whole. The. The world feel alive and, like, the races and this history matters again. That was so fierce when they did that.
• 14:49
  Speaker A: It was.
• 14:49
  Speaker B: Oh, my God, that was so good. But also, Nathanos, I know people like him, but I just.
• 14:54
  Speaker A: I hate him.
• 14:55
  Speaker B: I don't. I do not care for him. He's such a. I do not care for him when he's like, first of all, he's a huge simp. Yes. And then also the way he talks to you is so, like, the only person that can talk to me like that is Silvana San Zelotov. Everyone else better shut up, T. He's so, like, rude and, like, gross and. Ugh. Don't like him.
• 15:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm also like, Nathanos, you are, like, starved of allies at this point. You should be treating me with a little bit more respect. I also don't like him because he gives chair energy in, like, absolutely. In a bad way. Real bad way. Like. Yeah, yeah, like, pick yourself up. And, you know, Nathanos, I need you to actually get a job, because what do you actually do around here besides bark orders?
• 15:38
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, he's like the. But he's also the perfect, like, little evil minion of, like, the big bad guy that, like, actually is, like, the. Like, he doesn't have, like, the, like, Sylvanas is the one with the balls, and he's just like, a minion.
• 15:52
  Speaker A: No, he is so. So in that pre patch, though, we get that iconic moment where that. That trailer, that. That cinematic that I love, that art style that they do.
• 16:07
  Speaker B: Blew me away.
• 16:08
  Speaker A: And when she's, like, looking at it, she's like, oh, really? She's like, oh, you don't think I can serve in this moment? Well, mama, let it burn. And then she tells her, still, that was.
• 16:19
  Speaker B: That. That really went, like. That really went under people's skin. When like the Night Elf goes like, you can't kill hope. And then she's like, watch me. And then she just watches her home burn. That was. I could not believe that that happened. I love Teldrasil so much. Means everything to me. I will listen to Tel Dracil music just to relax. No joke. Like, yeah, there's like a six hour video. I listen and when I saw that, I was like, nah, nah, nah, nah. There's no way turn back time. There's no way this is happening. And then when you log in and you go to Dark Shore and you see the b. You see like that backdrop where you can just see the tree, like, stop. Like that was burnt. That really was gaggy. That they went there was crazy.
• 17:06
  Speaker A: And that pre patch mission is insane.
• 17:12
  Speaker B: I played it.
• 17:13
  Speaker A: Oh, it's crazy. So I played it as a horde and alliance, and it's very different for either side. You play as a horde. You. If I remember correctly, Sfang, who kind of ends up being the savior of sorts and zappy boy of the Horde. They kind of are the people that turn the Horde against Sylvanas. Saurfang tells you to save as many of the Night elves as you can in Teldrassil because he disagrees with what's happening.
• 17:46
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:47
  Speaker A: So you're running.
• 17:48
  Speaker B: Even says there's no honor in this.
• 17:50
  Speaker A: Yeah. So you're running around. Truly, it. It's so insane. There's a timer and you have to try and save as many night elves as you can, but there's no way to save every single night elf.
• 18:07
  Speaker B: Oh my God.
• 18:08
  Speaker A: And so you're watching these night elves burn, these buildings burn, knowing that not everyone's gonna survive.
• 18:16
  Speaker B: That's crazy. I didn't know that. Yeah.
• 18:18
  Speaker A: And it's really dark and it's very emotional. Like, especially if you play as a Night elf character because you're like, I. This is where I leveled up my level one Night Elf. And this is like where home is. So it was fascinating. And I really hope World of Warcraft, like does more stuff like this. Like quests that have huge implications for the game that make you like, feel feelings. I think not to jump ahead too much because I'm talking about War Within. But there is a quest in the War within that kind of. That I got that emotional pull from. Did you do the side quest where there is an Earthen who is.
• 19:11
  Speaker B: I know what talk about.
• 19:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then you. You kind of.
• 19:15
  Speaker B: And then you see him like freeze to stone.
• 19:17
  Speaker A: Oh.
• 19:18
  Speaker B: And he like, looks out into the beach. So emotional. I love when they do quests like that. I remember everyone was talking about that quest. It was, like, a side quest, and, oh, my God, at the end, his last wish was to kind of look into the beach water. And then he had so emotional, and.
• 19:37
  Speaker A: He had, like, memory issues. So he was having a hard time remembering things, but he always remembered that beach, and I was just like, ugh.
• 19:44
  Speaker B: Another one of those quests that also felt like that was the blood elf heritage armor questline.
• 19:51
  Speaker A: I didn't do that one.
• 19:52
  Speaker B: Where Lor' themar walk. Oh, that's a good one to do before midnight. Where Lor' themar kind of, like, walks you through, like, the dead scar and everything that kind of happened, and then you end up in, like, the windrunner sanctuary. And it's like. It's just so emotional. Like, there's so much trauma in that place. And that quest line really, really, like. Like, makes you feel all of that.
• 20:12
  Speaker A: It's.
• 20:13
  Speaker B: It's so good.
• 20:14
  Speaker A: Okay, I'm gonna level up a blood elf just so I can do that heritage armor quest. I need to. Let's. Okay, so we did pre patch. Let's now talk about, like, the princess Talangi of it all. The Zandalars, My dinner, my icon, my legend, the queen. Also, can we just talk about how hot Zandalari trolls are?
• 20:34
  Speaker B: Like, so hot. I remember. I remember kind of giggling about them because, like, like, what is this troll diva being a paladin? What do you mean? Like, what? Like, that's when they introduced paladins for trolls, and we were like, what the. But it worked. And then the men were so, like, big and, like, chunky and huge. Like. Like, I think they have the skeleton of night elves, but they. They just have this, like. Like, the male ones, and they. But they just have. They just have prettier faces than male night elves. I'm so sorry. They look. They look sour. And I was so obsessed with them. It was so good. And, like, I just loved how they were written. They had this, like, entire culture about them. They were clearly very different from our usual trolls. Like, they felt mighty and strong and, like, very, like, you know, they stick to themselves, and they have this empire. The music in Zandalar was amazing, and I just love how Talanji was written. Like, she was just, like, very passionate about her people, very passionate about what she wants, but also kind of, like. Like, a little, like, naive and a little, like, too quick with her actions, even though she was fierce. But I love that it gave her depth. Like, she. She obviously made mistakes and stuff and that the writing of her was so beautiful. Yeah. But let's. Let's talk about the. The city being the most vertical city World of Warcraft ever invented. Like a million stairs, but you were not able to fly.
• 22:07
  Speaker A: It's so true. That was rough. I do remember that being extremely rough. And yeah, I use those flight paths all the time. I was like, maybe I'm not. I'm not climbing those stairs. Absolutely not.
• 22:21
  Speaker B: Also, huge dinosaurs everywhere. We've never had that before.
• 22:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, that was really cool.
• 22:25
  Speaker B: Dinosaurs of the loa.
• 22:26
  Speaker A: Like, I think it was just super cool to see, like, all the loa. And there was like this, I guess, kind of unspokenness of like, how did the lower fit into the greater godlihood that is World of Warcraft? And they kind of answered that in BFA and in Shadowlands, like what loa are. But I really liked it because you got to see, like, this is what a troll society would be like if they rose to these. This huge prominence. And they have, like all these shrines dedicated to all these different loa that they pray to. And I love the Blood Elves or Blood Trolls as enemies. Like, yes. And then them praying to, like an artificial.
• 23:23
  Speaker B: Game.
• 23:25
  Speaker A: Oh, we need it.
• 23:26
  Speaker B: Already exists.
• 23:28
  Speaker A: We need it. I also loved that they were praying to an artificial old God. Like, I thought that was like kind of a unique spin on, like.
• 23:38
  Speaker B: Oh, the Cahoon thing of it all.
• 23:40
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:41
  Speaker B: I was like, what is it? The pimple. The. No, Nizof is the pimple. Yeah. Kahun is the maggot. Yeah.
• 23:48
  Speaker A: The big maggot guy. The big maga guy.
• 23:51
  Speaker B: No, I'm just kidding.
• 23:54
  Speaker A: No, I just. I really, really enjoyed that entire storyline. I thought it was great. I love King Drasticon. I think that's how you pronounce his name. Yeah. I loved his death. I liked that they were like, we're killing off the leader of this new society and Princess Talanji is going to have to be the diva that she was always meant to be.
• 24:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That and one Samdi. The voice acting of Bwonsamdi. And the wedding was so fierce. So, so, so, so fierce. So that. But that's. That, that's. That's jumping to the second patch then. Because the first patch was just Cahoon. Yeah. The second patch was where we kill off Rastakhan. The battle of the Tsar Lore Raid, which is the craziest thing I think World of Warcraft has done. There was two different stories and two different sides. And you would swap from being Horde to alliance in parts and alliance to Horde, and you would have, like, even different racial and. Oh, my God, it was cool. Like, how cool. The mechanics of it all. Yeah. But going back to the first patch, the alliance side was also fierce because I played alliance.
• 24:59
  Speaker A: Yes, I did, too.
• 25:00
  Speaker B: I mean, I did. I did both, but alliance, I remember specifically, like, Jaina obviously, was, like, the main character of it at the beginning, and her going to Boralis. And her. Is it her mother? Yeah, her mother.
• 25:14
  Speaker A: Right, it's her mother. Yeah.
• 25:15
  Speaker B: And then the aunt was Lady Ashwin Diva, by the way.
• 25:19
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. The. The knockoff Ursula.
• 25:22
  Speaker B: Literally. Literally. I was just gonna say it. She's literally Ursula and the mother being kind of, like, dismissive of her. And, like, that really made me, because Jayna is this, like, powerhouse and this, like, you know, strong woman. And then, like, seeing her mother treating her like that and seeing it get to Jaina that her own people, even though all she's done is fought and fought and fought, and then, like, the way they treated her really made me feel for her totally. Family trauma gets me like that. I think that was a really beautiful portrayal. Also, that. Oh, my God. Her, like, singing that the. In. In that one cinematic where she sings Daughter of the Sea.
• 26:01
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 26:02
  Speaker B: Such a good job. Like, made me fall in love with Jaina. And it also. It also scares. It also scares you, like, a little bit because she's scary at the end.
• 26:10
  Speaker A: When she is, like.
• 26:11
  Speaker B: She, like, lifts an entire ship from the sea.
• 26:14
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 26:15
  Speaker B: Also, she just have. I'm very scared of, like, the deep sea, so that. That scared me.
• 26:19
  Speaker A: I. Yeah, I really loved. I think I grew to appreciate the alliance storyline more when I dove into Gina's backstory and learned about, like, the. Like, that whole song has another, like, meaning behind it when you realize, like, the troubled relationship she has with her father. And, like, that, like, her father is the reason why the people of Boralis and the Kilterians don't like her. And they see her as a traitor because she chose the Horde over her own people. And I found that faster. Yeah. And I really liked Ashvane as a villain in this because fierce. She was so fierce. And she was also, like, just like, it. It showcased. And I. I don't know if this is just because, like, Game of. I think Game of Thrones was really popular around this time, right?
• 27:22
  Speaker B: Probably. Yeah.
• 27:23
  Speaker A: And it gave me, like, Game of Thrones vibes because it was like, Jaina's mother is, like, the leader of this society. And Ashvin is this, like, little person in her ear, making her do things that she wants to make happen, which I found is like, very Game of Thrones, very, like, medieval. Like, you're the real evil person behind all of this.
• 27:46
  Speaker B: What was it. What was it called in Game of Thrones? Like, Hand of the crown or something?
• 27:49
  Speaker A: Something like that.
• 27:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Like, it was giving that vibe. Like, little finger, middle finger. What was the name?
• 27:55
  Speaker A: Pinky finger. Something like that.
• 27:57
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:58
  Speaker A: Ms. Thumb.
• 27:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, it was giving. Definitely Dabai. But very mean. She was very mean.
• 28:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:05
  Speaker B: I love. I love a mean auntie.
• 28:07
  Speaker A: I just really loved the entire vibe of all of the zones in the alliance area.
• 28:15
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. Until this day, of course, the witches. Stunning.
• 28:22
  Speaker A: Stunning.
• 28:23
  Speaker B: The dungeon is one of my favorite dungeons ever. And Borales is one of my favorite cities until this day. Like, the music. They're like. They're like birds. Not the birds. What are they? The white ones that, like, eat your foods?
• 28:42
  Speaker A: The pelicans?
• 28:43
  Speaker B: No, like, you know, those, like, really aggressive white birds that will, like, fly down and, like, take your foods.
• 28:49
  Speaker A: I know what you're talking about, and I also can't think of their name. Seagulls.
• 28:55
  Speaker B: Seagulls, yes. Seagulls flying.
• 28:59
  Speaker A: How many gays does it take?
• 29:01
  Speaker B: And then the whole, like. Like piratey vibe and then the teal everywhere.
• 29:05
  Speaker A: It.
• 29:06
  Speaker B: I love that. That city so much. Beautiful. Stunning.
• 29:11
  Speaker A: And I think it was a big miss that. I think if we had gotten BFA now, we would get more specializations because, like, the fact that we still don't have Tide sages as a class.
• 29:24
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 29:25
  Speaker A: That you can be. Same with, like, the blood. Like a blood mage or blood witch or something of that caliber. Same with Drustfar. There is, like, so much witchy stuff you could have done, and all we got was there's a human druid school.
• 29:39
  Speaker B: Of magic that is based around Drustfar that is supposed to be, like, witchy and kind of like evil druidy almost. Even though it's, like, marketed as a. A witch. Oh, my God. Drasfar is just such a. That that's. It could have been its own expansion.
• 29:54
  Speaker A: It honestly could have. It could have been its own, like, so good. I really, really, really hope they revisit Drustvar in some way, shape or form, because there is just. There's just so many scary side quests that are in Drust far. Loved it. I think, like, both of these, both the Horde and the alliance, there are some elements of them that aren't the Best like Volun for the Horde.
• 30:23
  Speaker B: I was say, do not care.
• 30:25
  Speaker A: Don't care at all. Don't care about. Sorry. Don't care about the Volara either. Don't care about them at all. I wanted the Seth rack. I didn't want Volara and I'm going to. I. And I will speak on that. Okay.
• 30:39
  Speaker B: What did the. What did these Vulpera do to you?
• 30:42
  Speaker A: They didn't do nothing. They're cute. They're cute.
• 30:44
  Speaker B: I was kind of excited about Volpera, but they. Then they came out and I played it and I was like, this is kind of a flop. And then I never played Vola again. Their story is also so, like, like lukewarm.
• 30:54
  Speaker A: Like, it's so lukewarm. It makes. And this is me again on my high horse. I don't think it makes any freaking sense that the Volpera would join the alliance or the Horde or at least have any kind of semblance of force to help in the war as opposed to the Seth Rack. I think the Seth Rack makes way more sense for them to join either the alliance or the Horde because they actually had like a massive army and they had like, actual stuff they could contribute to the warfare.
• 31:28
  Speaker B: Have a reptilian race.
• 31:29
  Speaker A: We don't. And the. Well, now we do the Druckthir, but at the time we did. But the. The Volpera are just like these like, traveling nomads and I'm like, baby, they did it. Listen, listen, I know that there's a. There's a subsection of World of Warcraft lovers that love Volpera, and I'm so sorry.
• 31:50
  Speaker B: Have.
• 31:51
  Speaker A: Have your girls, have your boys, have your little furry tales. And I live for you. I live for you. Living for the Fullbera fairy tales.
• 31:59
  Speaker B: Yeah. No, I think it's important that we're honest about this. Even though we're gonna. We're always gonna upset someone in World of Warcraft. It's World of Warcraft. There's always gonna be people upset. The amount of people that get upset about me be liking Sylvanas in my comments is crazy. So. Yeah, speak your truth, diva. No, I. I agree. And. And I also didn't really care about that, like, one zone in the alliance besides that one quest where we follow Finn and he's like, drunk. That one was fierce.
• 32:23
  Speaker A: That was cute.
• 32:24
  Speaker B: I remember that one specifically. But I didn't really care for the rest of the zone. But Stormsong Valley is like. I always tell people if I could pick a place to live in World of It would probably be that. I really. Yeah. I mean, I know it's like the most like technically like least fantasy ish zones. Like you could pick something like Dalaran, you know, but I don't know. Stormsong Valley with the bees and the honey and like the greenery. It's like the Shire. I. I love it.
• 32:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:53
  Speaker B: So beautiful. And Drawstar. We would go skiing. Yes.
• 32:58
  Speaker A: I. Okay, so let's get into like the. Obviously, if you're listening and you've never played bfa, highly recommend going in and playing through and leveling a character through it.
• 33:09
  Speaker B: Absolutely.
• 33:10
  Speaker A: What's amazing about BFA is you truly get a completely different story whether you are on the alliance or the Horde.
• 33:17
  Speaker B: Oh yeah.
• 33:18
  Speaker A: I don't think we're ever gonna get again in World of Warcraft. So it is. It's like playing two expansions in one.
• 33:26
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 33:27
  Speaker A: Which I understand is probably double the work for Blizzard even to. So we kind of get the merging of them in these like post additional patches where there's like Nas, Jatar and Mechagon. There's still slight differences in the story. I know, I know.
• 33:45
  Speaker B: But like. But you have the same story basically.
• 33:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. All I remember is when I played through these. I loved Nazjatar at the start and then very quickly learned to hate it because it is. I think I would like it now that we have flying. But Nazjatar was so vertical and the map was so hard to navigate that you would get. You would try to like get to where you needed to go and you're like, oh my God, I have to walk through like seven crowds of mobs just to get to this one fetch quest and I don't want to fight seven groups of enemies.
• 34:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Dashitar was. But I personally like that a little because it felt dangerous.
• 34:40
  Speaker A: It did feel dangerous.
• 34:42
  Speaker B: You really like ventured out into enemy territory also underwater zones. Yes, please. Especially if there's no water. You actually have to swim through the entire time. Like the design was stunning and seeing like that old elven architecture. Beautiful. And like all these like souls and stuff that were like that died in the sundering. And then Ashara's underwater castle. Like what do you mean? So high fantasy. But yes, it was absolutely. It felt really dangerous. The mobs were really strong. You felt genuinely really weak. Even though if you went in with armor from last season, you felt really weak and you would be. I would die a lot. But I. I don't know. Nashar gave me life. I played that zone to the te. I did everything I collected all the achievements. I have that like five mount where you. It was like a mount that is like a CI. Like very gay, like seahorse. And you have to take a selfie with him to get him. Ah, fierce. Loved it. And there was like a whole meta achievement that took like three months. And I did all of it. I played Nazatar. I. I like played through it and Mechagon too. It was so. Those were two. So like such different zones. Completely different. Both added in the same patch. There was so much to do. We were eating really well, as would have worker players back then.
• 36:00
  Speaker A: I'm gonna say something controversial. I hated Mechagon and here's why. Here's why I. So I, despite me not liking the vertical, vertical nature of Nashatar, loved the story. I thought it was like such a great. Like, we have this conflict between the Horde and the Alliance. There's some really messed up stuff happening. Like the whole Derek Proudmoore stuff with like Sylvanas raising him from the dead and.
• 36:32
  Speaker B: Oh, that was crazy.
• 36:33
  Speaker A: Crazy. And then like the Kalia Manethel of it all, like it. There's some really juicy bits to bite on. And Nash guitar was great because it was like this third conflict that kind of came in and both sides had to be like, hold up, pump the brakes. There is a world ending plot happening right now. We actually need to like focus on this right now. But Mechagon, to me, tried to reheat the nachos of Naz Chitar and where they're like, oh, there's another world ending plot. There's now a gnome trying to turn all flesh people into mechanical creatures. And I'm like, baby, no, I don't. I don't need this right now. I want to focus on the storyline we were already currently on because Mechagon just felt like it came out of left field because they needed to figure out. And World of Warcraft does this sometimes, which I understand, where they're like, we haven't dedicated a story to like a specific race or a specific thing. And gnomes had been slept on for ages ever. There was like no storyline for the gnomes, I don't think since. Classic. Wow. And so I get them being like, okay, we need to like, update to like, okay, what are gnomes up to at this point? And so Mechagon was like, for the gnomes and kind of explain, like, what. Who is King Mechagon? And like, what is all this? But as a Horde player, I was like, why do I give a about any of this?
• 38:07
  Speaker B: That's totally fair. I forgot what the story even of Mechagon was like. I forgot that whole, like, flesh thing. That's weird. Af, like, do not. I don't. I did not care for the Lord Mechagon. I just love, like, their whimsical kind of fun and, like. And, like, farming rares and doing all, like, that was cool blueprints and I. I enjoyed that. And I love the Mechagon mega dungeon.
• 38:30
  Speaker A: That's a cool dungeon too.
• 38:31
  Speaker B: Really cool mechanics. Very unique. Very, like, goofy. But absolutely agree with you. The story was so irrelevant. It was so, like, whatever. But the. The storyline in Nazjatar was just fierce because you could constantly hear Ashara. And I'm a huge Ashara fan.
• 38:46
  Speaker A: I love her.
• 38:47
  Speaker B: A huge fan of her. Like, what? And, like, I could do a whole episode just talking about Ashara.
• 38:52
  Speaker A: She is so fierce.
• 38:54
  Speaker B: Navigated her whole life, what she did. The impact this woman had on the world.
• 38:59
  Speaker A: It's true.
• 38:59
  Speaker B: It's crazy. And then now she's this, like, fish diva and she's in her castle, and then, like, the raid underwater raids. You fight. If you fight a massive fish, you find Lady Ashvane turning into a crab.
• 39:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, that was. That was a bit crazy. Yeah, she turns into a creature. I remember that.
• 39:17
  Speaker B: And then you fight on that platform. You fight Ashara and there's these, like, chains going off and everywhere. It was such an epic, hard, epic, epic fight. And then the cut scene when she. When she. When you. When you finish the fight, she doesn't die, but you can tell she is scared. She's scared of what's happening. And it's her and it's the old God that gave her all this power, like, that turned her into this. Like, she offended. And then his, like, chains being freed. And like, we have no idea what we just released later on. Turns out it's off. But that was so good.
• 39:52
  Speaker A: And then. Can we. Can we talk about how epic, might I add how epic, epic, epic. That kind of ending to Nazjatar was. So imagine you're, like, seeing all this and then you get Mecha gone after and you're like. You're like, wait a minute, why. Anyway, not to dwell too much on Mechagon.
• 40:16
  Speaker B: That's so tea.
• 40:16
  Speaker A: There was some fun stuff in Mechagon, don't get me wrong. And I think now that I. And I feel this about a lot of previous zones, now that flying is unlocked, I enjoy some of these older zones more because, yeah, Mechagon, I remember being a nightmare to kind of go around. Because everything hit so hard in Mechagon. Like I was dying all the time in Mechagon and there was just like a lot of grinding for those blueprints and Brian, like all the things that you needed. Anyway, then we get. What was it? Visions of Nazoth or.
• 40:56
  Speaker B: Or yes, something that was the last patch. I think it's called Vision of the Zof. Yeah. With the visions and.
• 41:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Speaker B: And like. Like the raids being spawning in old zones. Like old zones were revamped.
• 41:09
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 41:10
  Speaker B: It was Uldum and Valley of the Blossom.
• 41:14
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 41:15
  Speaker B: Was.
• 41:16
  Speaker A: Was Valley. Yeah, it was the Missipandaria zone.
• 41:21
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 41:22
  Speaker A: I will say as a casual player, I think this is when I started to peter off out of bfa because Visions of Nizoth was not made for a casual player at all. Like it was so difficult. I think like towards the end of Visions of Nizoth I tried to get back into it and I actually did kind of enjoy it, like going into these old zones and fighting these really difficult enemies and like gathering all these things. I mostly just wanted like the creepy armors that you would get from it. But I'm very curious your thoughts as more of like a hardcore player during bfa. Like what were your thoughts and visions of Nzoth?
• 42:08
  Speaker B: I had. I lived. I lived my best.
• 42:09
  Speaker A: You lived it?
• 42:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, I played so much. I remember that's where I started getting into alts. I was really in into M plus and I was gearing and I was first time mythic raiding. So I was like so excited. It was also Covid. I had nothing else to do. I've made friends on World of Warcraft and I wanted to impress them and I wanted to like mythic raid and like be good. I started getting into locks and all of that. So I was doing everything to the max. I did a lot of visions. Visions were really hard. They were very hard.
• 42:39
  Speaker A: They were crazy.
• 42:40
  Speaker B: Doing like a five mask run was tough. Later on you would out gear it a little bit, but it was definitely hard. Like you did just do this in like two weeks. It took a while. And also it was like crazy like seeing like what would have happened like Elyria being Illyria going insane and yeah, the. The thrall fight was crazy. Also, do you remember that cutscene where Anduin fist punches Rathian?
• 43:07
  Speaker A: Wait, I do remember that.
• 43:09
  Speaker B: I forgot about that. That was like the. That was like the. The pre. Like cinematic. When it came out, it was basically like Anduin was having these visions of like Stormwind being invaded by Nizoth. You See this? Like huge tentacles. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't remember exactly what Rafian had to do with it, but Rafian showed up and Anduin punches him in the face. It was. That's where the gays kind of lost it because we were like, wow, sexual tension.
• 43:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Because I remember around this time the Anduin Rathianship was pretty fierce.
• 43:43
  Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. No. But yeah, visions of Dissolve was really, really fun. I didn't really care about the old zones being revamped. I did not care. They weren't fairly revealed to. Yeah, not really. It was like make it purple and put new mobs and then. And it was also just like a part of the zone. And the dailies and weeklies were a lot. They were not fun. They were to do.
• 44:05
  Speaker A: That was where they popped off.
• 44:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 44:08
  Speaker A: That's when the casual nature of it. I was like, oh, and also you.
• 44:11
  Speaker B: Had that, like legendary cloak and it was like one of the longest story quest lines to get to that legendary cloak and then it would level that up. That was not the tea. That was not fierce. No one liked that.
• 44:20
  Speaker A: What I did like about Visions of Nzoth and I don't know if they would ever redo this again is if I remember correctly, you would get gear items that would give you a negative and a positive trait and.
• 44:31
  Speaker B: Oh, corruptions.
• 44:33
  Speaker A: Corruptions. And that was interesting because you would. Sometimes I'm, I. I'm like. I'm sure it was annoying for some people because you'd get like a really sickening item, but then you had to take on a corruption in order to get that item. And it was like a super overpowered item.
• 44:49
  Speaker B: Oh, you. Oh, you're talking about the Mask of the Vision, where you would have like, you have double the sanity, but at the same time, like an evil. You will come out of the earth.
• 44:59
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 45:00
  Speaker B: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:01
  Speaker A: And things would happen like while you're raiding or doing a dungeon and you're like, oh, my God, this is so annoying.
• 45:05
  Speaker B: Only for divisions. Corruptions that were added later on. And they were literally just crazy buffs. We were literally juiced up machines by the end of that patch because we.
• 45:16
  Speaker A: Had like searched up corruptions.
• 45:19
  Speaker B: Huge titties all the way to the chain. Yeah. We had these like, out here, the corruptions were like, I don't know, your mastery increases or like there's. There was this one called Gushing Wounds where you would like put it all over your armor and then you would leave gushing wounds in your enemy and they would get a dot that was really strong. So that was crazy in PvP. Yeah.
• 45:39
  Speaker A: I remember that episode of Heated Rivalry. Yeah.
• 45:46
  Speaker B: I was like, what? Right, right.
• 45:47
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 45:48
  Speaker B: I haven't seen it actually. I haven't seen it. Is that crazy?
• 45:51
  Speaker A: It's basically the cinematic of Anduin punching Rathian.
• 45:55
  Speaker B: Right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'll have to put that on my list. Yeah. And I also remember another thing that pops up into my head instantly when I think about that patch is farming essences. There were these essences you would put into your heart of Azeroth and I think you had three slaves. Lots. But the essences were so crazy because you would farm them from such random like, like for example, if you were a strictly this. People hated this about BFA when you were a strict PvE player. You were forced to do arena all the way to like where you would earn conquest because you needed an essence that was only earnable in PvP content. But it was your B for PvE. People always hating World of Warcraft when they have to do content that they don't want. Yeah. And that's where they really learned that we can't do that anymore. Like that was crazy.
• 46:46
  Speaker A: I think they've, they've hit their stride in understanding that like they're, they have to build these expansions for various different audiences. Because I'm sure like the issue was that like PvP numbers were probably down at that point and they were like, let's, we need to fill the queue for PvP. Let's figure out a way filter PvE people in. But that just ends up not being fun for the PvPers and not being fun for the PvE years either.
• 47:12
  Speaker B: It was horrible.
• 47:14
  Speaker A: Okay, so we, we got a little, little bit left to talk about with bfa and I think that like maybe we can just lightly touch on it. We did a little bit already the island expeditions in Azerite, like that being kind of the overarching thing. But I, I under, I understood why Azerite was this like sought after things. It's like the blood of Azeroth, but.
• 47:43
  Speaker B: There'S power in it.
• 47:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, there's like power in it and whatnot. But I think like, overall it just seemed, it seemed like they were like, all right, we need to have this mechanic where your people are grinding for this resource. That way they, they can level up. Okay, what, what are we, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? Azerite. Okay, so we've got this mineral. Oh, you know, we should do, we should also make like the entire story centered around, like, this, like, one element. And that's why, like, this war breaks out is because everyone wants Azerite now. And so it made sense, like, for the story, like, why people are, like, seeking this thing. My favorite thing, though, is going into Shadowlands. Mama. Everyone forgot about Azerite.
• 48:30
  Speaker B: Like, literally everyone, even in bfa, let's be real, forgot talking about Azerite anymore after the first patch. Okay, let's say first two. And then later on it was like, Azerite.
• 48:44
  Speaker A: Like, who's this?
• 48:45
  Speaker B: Who is she?
• 48:46
  Speaker A: Who is she?
• 48:48
  Speaker B: It was like, okay, we need an easy excuse why we were starting a war. But I think that could have been done different, differently.
• 48:53
  Speaker A: I agree.
• 48:55
  Speaker B: Azerai was definitely Floptina. Like, no one cared about her at the end. And I just do want to quickly mention, even though people hate island expeditions, I was living my best life doing them same. I love them. I would, I would put on a podcast or like a show and I would just do them and I would randomly get a mount. Like, oh, I love. I was living my best life.
• 49:13
  Speaker A: And they were very hard. They were like, casual friendly, but you could also treat them kind of hardcore if you wanted to.
• 49:19
  Speaker B: You could do them with three. Three people if you wanted to. You could also do them alone. That was really cool.
• 49:23
  Speaker A: And some people were like, oh, well, certain. There's like, meta, like, classes are. Certain classes are better than others. And I'm like, yeah, girl. That's what. In any PvE like, thing, there's always going to be someone that's going to be stronger.
• 49:36
  Speaker B: Always, always, always, always.
• 49:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, I, I really enjoyed that. And yeah, yeah, I, I just, I just think it's so funny. Like when you, even now, if you level up a character through bfa, the way they talk about Azerite is you think it's like, oh, mama, this is like a world breaking power. This is going to be like, we're actually getting rid of legendary weapons from Legion because this, this azerite is more powerful than your legendary weapon.
• 50:00
  Speaker B: Get onto this azerite powder, Mama.
• 50:02
  Speaker A: Like, they're like, it's like, it's like.
• 50:04
  Speaker B: When everyone start talking about microdosing. Everyone's talking about, like, shoving azurite up your couch. I don't know, like, what, like, what are we, what are we doing?
• 50:11
  Speaker A: We're butt chucking Azerite in World of Warcraft.
• 50:20
  Speaker B: Those are the giant swords. The giant swords we would like. I remember people being like, oh, my God, there's a giant sword in Azeroth. Like, that's going to be bfa. It's going to be all about that. What sword, mama?
• 50:33
  Speaker A: What sword? I don't know.
• 50:34
  Speaker B: There's a sword stuck in our Azeroth. But. Okay.
• 50:40
  Speaker A: I think the last thing that I think we should touch on because I think that's a common complaint about World of Warcraft now is where. Yeah, like what is the Warcraft? Where is the Warcraft in World of Warcraft? Because since BFA we really have not gotten a Horde versus alliance storyline and we've gone through now Shadowlands, we've gone through Dragonflight, the War within and potentially Midnight without any Horde versus Alliance. In fact, they're the lines. The only real sense that there's Horde in Alliance is the fact that alliance characters can't talk to Horde characters and vice versa. At this point I'm curious your thoughts on that.
• 51:25
  Speaker B: I. Can we just let it rest? I don't know. I just like we, we. We had, we BFA was going back to that hoard versus alliance thing and I understand it, it's nostalgic. We had all this merch where it was like, oh, I'm alliance and I'm Horde, I'm this. And then we had to recruit all these races on our side and we got a bunch of new races which was so cool.
• 51:47
  Speaker A: Loved it.
• 51:48
  Speaker B: That's the reason why I came back when I started Void Elsewhere thing. So all of that was great. And the war, the story was amazing. But let's. Was it really a. But when you think about it, was Azeroth really about war? Not really. When you think about at the end, it kind of like sure, Sylvanas did her thing and it did start the war. And then the Saurophang cinematic, I think after the Sauropang cinematic where she kills him and you see. Oh my God, that cinematic is so, so good. When, like when you can see like that, like when she's, when she's. When Sivana's basically castles out the Horde and you can see that like. Like what? And like realizing everything's falling apart and, and then, and after that there's just no reason for us to go to war anymore. Obviously there's. There's a lot of wounds and you'll always feel there's going to be tension. I'm just like, I don't know, like get the war back into World of Warcraft. I'm like, we've had war for so long. Do we really still need that?
• 52:44
  Speaker A: Agree.
• 52:44
  Speaker B: I don't know. I'm just, I think it's I like if, if we be going back it would just be reheating nachos all the time. I don't know, like let it rest Eva. Let it rest.
• 52:54
  Speaker A: I agree. I'm of this similar mindset where I do like there being war in Warcraft because I do think that I like that as a vehicle for a storyline. I'm okay with these like world ending plots that we have been getting. I do want World of Warcraft to be okay and I don't think this is an issue now. But I do need them to start being okay with us having more morally gray characters. I think in the War within we got very clear. You are good or you are bad. And I really miss when we had people rooting for Sylvanas and then Sylvanas burns down a tree and you're like oh, I'm now second guessing it. Or Tyrande taking on. What was it called? The Night Warrior and becoming this like really forbidden dark version of herself. And you're like wait a minute. Yeah, same with. I really appreciated Gen Graymane still being a boring character. Many many years since it's introduction. I just want to throw shade again. Gray Mane. I find him such a. I don't.
• 54:18
  Speaker B: Like him at all.
• 54:18
  Speaker A: I find him such a terrible character Dame.
• 54:22
  Speaker B: He's this like old ass man that won't shut up. Like shut up.
• 54:28
  Speaker A: I. I also love that Anduin has been gone for so long and then so Turalyn's been kind of leading the alliance and then when Turalyon's gone.
• 54:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 54:39
  Speaker A: And then when Turalyon's gone. Gen Green main leads the alliance or I think he does. Yeah, he's like the. The backup backup king. Imagine being third choice. Imagine being led by Gen Gray Mane. I'm so sorry Worgens. It's bad for you right now.
• 55:00
  Speaker B: Like having him as a like your ruler must be like working with a bunch of boomers. I'm so sorry. No Shade. It's. That's. No, I don't. I don't care for him at all. I don't care for him at all.
• 55:13
  Speaker A: Well yeah, I can't stand them but sorry back I got so just distracted by my own point.
• 55:20
  Speaker B: Back to war.
• 55:21
  Speaker A: Back to the war. I. I love it when World of Warcraft makes us root for a character and not root for a character in the same breath and I need them to do that more. That same with like this. This frustrated me post Shadowlands with Anduin. Anduin did some like really messed up stuff in Shadowlands and A lot of it was because he was being controlled by the jailer and possessed by the jailer. And there was like some hints of like, maybe Anduin kind of liked what he did. Like, he, he. There was a part of him that like, maybe was letting out his frustrations and he is having a hard time admitting, like, okay, maybe I did kind of enjoy that killing, even though I didn't want to do it. But they just kind of like swept that under the rug and they're like, actually, no, it was all the jailer and he just needs to reconnect to the light. And he's. He's a really good guy.
• 56:20
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 56:21
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I was like, it's okay if he kind of enjoyed it. It doesn't make him a bad character. It just means that maybe he's got complicated feelings and yeah, he's a human like anyone else.
• 56:30
  Speaker B: Absolutely. No, that was a, that was a great moment for them to do that. I think they're trying it a little with Illyria, but I don't know, she needs to get a little more aggressive. I think she needs. Because she can be even more like cutthroat. Why not?
• 56:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. I think like a way to amplify the diva ness of Illyria is. Here's what I need. Here's what I need. I need Illyria and at least an 8 inch stiletto going forward. I need them to re redo her model. She's in a fierce stiletto corseted big hair. She's wearing a breastplate 24 7, of course. And a fierce lip. Her bow when she like summons it. I need there to be more sparkle. I need there to be more magical girl transformation when that bow comes out.
• 57:23
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 57:24
  Speaker A: And I need her to have a kissing scene with Xalatath a la Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears with tongue. She's like, oh, the void. It's so alluring. And I need them to have like their little kissy kissy moment and then fight.
• 57:41
  Speaker B: I need full on the Zaatavs like feed into her mouth. What?
• 57:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm into it. And then I want them to full on cat fight. I want hair pulling. I want bad girls club, like chairs are throwing. I just need everything. Could you imagine the gays would be fine?
• 58:02
  Speaker B: I agree. No, but kind of like going back to your point, I fully. I fully agree with what you said with we need more like nuanced characters. Again, we got that a little bit with Jaina when she was also like kind of freaking out and wanting to destroy everyone and kill Rastak can and stuff. She did. But we definitely need that back even if we don't have war. Just. Just a little bit more of, like, controversy.
• 58:29
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I do think we might be getting that in Midnight because there is, correct me if I'm wrong, it's showcasing what happens when the light becomes too powerful and there's like the. The light pollution and it's like infecting the wildlife and nature. And there's like this hint of like.
• 58:49
  Speaker B: The light is scary, like, just as much as the voids. I think the light is even scarier because there's these, like, heretics and like. Yeah. Fanatics of the light. And I. I really want them to explore that a lot. Do you? Do you. Did you ever. There was like one quest line in World of Warcraft. I don't. I think it was also part of BFA where you go back to Draynor, but not. Not BC Draynor, but lots of Draynor. And this one Draenei character, that was actually your friend back in the day, Yarael or something. She's a Draenei.
• 59:21
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Yara. Yeah.
• 59:23
  Speaker B: And she is now like a light fanatic. And then you help. Wait, no, that's the quest to unlock Makar Orc, I think. And then the Makar orc, like, flee to Azeroth because they're gonna get consumed by her, like, fanatic light people. And that really showed us for the first time, like, wait, the light can just be just as evil if there's too much of it.
• 59:45
  Speaker A: Wait, I need to rewatch this again because I. I mostly know yell because I didn't play Warlords of Trainer, but I remember I did the intro quest. I know her from Heroes of the Storm because she's a character in Heroes of the Storm.
• 59:58
  Speaker B: Oh, you see?
• 59:58
  Speaker A: Yeah. And that's fascinating. I would love. I need more. We need more evil like characters because.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker B: Um, Kalia Minethiel make her evil.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker A: Oh, give me. Imagine she just. I know we keep saying reheating nachos, but imagine she just goes down Sylvanas's path somehow and she. She just ends up becoming the leader of the Forsaken. And she's like, oh, I'm a light infused undead. Well, mama, I'm actually eating.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker B: Yeah. What if she makes. What if she does experiments? Poor Forsaken. But what if she does experiments on Forsaken and then she creates Lightforged Forsaken.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker A: Good.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker B: And then we have undead on the alliance side.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker A: I listen. They kind of played around with that After. I mean, Sylvanas did end up killing all of the undead that went over to the alliance side, but there. There. I remember there being that, like, storyline in BFA where the alliance and the Horde undead. The undead are reconnecting with their human families. And then.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I know which one you mean.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then there is potential for some of the undead to join the alliance. And Jaina's okay with this happening. And then Sylvanas is like, absolutely not. Yeah. And then Sylvanas is like, absolutely not. And then kills not only all the undead the defected over to the alliance, but then also kills all the undead that stayed on the Horde. Basically any undead that went to that thing she killed. And because she's obviously corrupted by the jailer, needs to cause mass death.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker B: Allegedly. Yeah.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker A: And then. God, I love Sylvanas. She's.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker B: She's insane. She's insane. Absolutely insane. She is. But the undead are probably like, the Forsaken in general are probably my favorite. Like, if not my favorite, like, lore of all, like, races. Same elves are my number one. But I do feel like the Forsaken actually have, like, the best storyline in World of Warcraft. There's. There. You really feel bad for them when you look into their lore. Like, they've really been through some tough, tough shit.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker A: They really have. I mean, imagine. Imagine you are a human, because I get it. There's no, like, other races that are undead, though. That's mostly meant for Death Knights. But if you are like a human Forsaken, you had an entire family, you had an entire life before this. You get raised as an undead, Your family doesn't love you anymore because you're an undead and you eat human flesh. At least the classic undead did back in the day. And then you build up a new life, you join a new society, and your leader is a crazy banshee woman who is trying to figure out a way to keep more undead joining the civilization because they can't reproduce. Imagine not being able to have a boner as an undead. That's so sad, right? Like, you can't. You're dead. Your. Your body's dead.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker B: They don't have sex.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker A: No, I don't think they. They definitely fall in love. Undead can fall in love, but I mean, maybe they do death.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker B: So sad.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker A: Sound off in the comments. Do undead.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker B: Can undead get a boner? Let us know in the comments.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker A: Let us know in the comments down below.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker B: That's so sad.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, they do. They don't age. They just decay, but they decay really slowly. I Remember reading about that? And I was like, okay, I hate that.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker B: Did they decay?
• 1:03:47
  Speaker A: They decay, but they decay really slowly. And if like say their arm falls off, they can replace their arm with another undead arm or another body part.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker B: Hey, I thought this. I thought they're only decayed because they were raised in the later stage of their decaying while they were dead. Dead. Because that's so gross.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker A: I mean, you're undead friends with an.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker B: Undead, and then all of a sudden like two years later, she like has pus coming out of her mouth or something.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, they. They're dead bodies, so I'm assuming they smell. I mean, I'm sure they found ways to like mask the smell and. But they're. They are a dead body that is just walking around also.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker B: So do you think Kalia Menethil also is rotting?
• 1:04:30
  Speaker A: No. Okay, so Callia Menethil, if I remember correctly, was resurrected by a Naru. So she is light infused. So I don't know if she's the same type of undead as the rest of the undead. That's why she looks so fresh. Huh?
• 1:04:50
  Speaker B: Was Sylvanas rotting?
• 1:04:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, Mama.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker B: I didn't know that.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker A: But it's very slow. It's very, very slow. Like they. An undead, if I remember correctly, an undead can live longer than a human because they don't die from old age. They're just decaying extremely slowly. And they have ways of preserving. I don't think so.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker B: Be immortal?
• 1:05:18
  Speaker A: No, I mean, I mean, maybe as long as they're. They don't like die. They. I don't know if they can die from diseases.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker B: They take their supplements.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker A: They take their supplements. They take their oic. They get surged up.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker B: I'm sorry, can we make them stand up right though? Like, I need them to add I would be playing a forsaken a lot more if we could just stand upright like they gave to Oryx. Just give it to us. Give it to us.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker A: Give it to us, Blizzard. Give it to us. Please.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker B: Please, I'm begging.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker A: Well, what are your final thoughts on bfa?
• 1:05:58
  Speaker B: I loved bfa. BFA has just like I could. This episode could keep going on. There were so many iconic moments. The cinematics, the story, the nuanced characters, the amount of places we saw. We defeated an old God. We had a raid that was like where we could play both factions. The amount of races that were added, it's just like Kul Tirans being a whole new.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker A: We didn't even talk about that.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, just so much about BFA is amazing. And I feel like it's sad that all of it is tarnished by azerite power and island expeditions and essences because it's really not that deep. Like yeah, as a, as a, like BFA was an incredible expansion and I will defend that until my last breath.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker A: Until you become an undead and you're decaying. Slow decaying corpse. Yes, I agree. No. Yeah. I think my final thoughts on BFA are if you've never played through it, highly encourage you to make an alt character and level through BFA if you can. Because 100 sickening. You will live skip Voldune. And I mean by the time you reach the second region you'll probably be max level anyway. So just, just, just do the first two zones. Voldoon is cute, but it really doesn't amount to anything in terms of the main storyline. Same with the pirate region in Borealis or whatever. It's is that.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker B: Oh yeah, don't care.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker A: Don't care. Could care less. It's just Ashvane being Ashvane. And then if you do get a chance, definitely play through Nashtar. Just the scenery alone is worth visiting.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker B: And through the raids.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker A: The raids are through the raids. Especially if you are back level. Remember you can play once you hit max level. You can one shot anything in any of the previous raids or dungeons. It's such a great way to kind of go through and just see the story of these old raids and old dungeons and actually like taking the environment. And if there's one thing World of Warcraft does is they kill it on like the set dressing and the story in those raids. Because the issue is you don't really get to like take them in because you're just kind of plowing through everything. So definitely go through. But yeah, this has been our third episode of Azeroth with Attitude.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker B: Thank you guys so so so much for watching. I. I think we both are so excited about this. It's genuinely so much fun. Yeah. Comment. Like, please support us. It means a lot. Yes. And yeah, I can't wait for our next episode.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's going to be sickening. My name's 8bit Dylan. You can follow me everywhere online at 8bit Dylan and you can follow the podcast also every Azeroth with Attitude. Where can they find you, Art?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker B: My name is Artemir. Artemir Gaming on all my platforms besides Twitch, there's just Artemis and yeah, that's where you can find me. Yes, right now we should have all our socials set up.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker A: Yes, it should be, it should be. Go check us out. Thank you all so much for listening. And this has been a Roth with attitude.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker B: With attitude.