Latest / ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact / Raising Resisters: Motherhood and Telling the Truth (with Renee Niemann)

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Raising Resisters: Motherhood and Telling the Truth (with Renee Niemann) · ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact

0:04
Hi, I'm Danielle Davey, and you're listening to Roar, a show
0:07
that amplifies the voices of women breaking barriers, leading
0:11
change and making real impact. Keep listening for bold ideas
0:14
and stories that inspire you to find your voice and make some
0:18
noise. Being a mom right now feels like
0:23
living in two different worlds. We're raising our kids to be
0:26
kind, fair, and decent while watching the highest levels of
0:29
society reward cruelty and power without consequence.
0:32
And somehow we're supposed to keep it together.
0:34
Pack the lunches and stay polite.
0:36
My guest today, Renee Nieman, knows that contradiction better
0:39
than anyone you might remember from our hilarious Instagram
0:42
account, Fake fake adult mom. But she's making waves now for
0:46
her new sub stack and Instagram communities, both called Resist
0:49
Like a Mother. Because as Renee shows us, being
0:52
a parent isn't just personal, it's political.
0:54
Welcome, Renee. Thank you so much for being
0:57
here. Thank you for having me, I
0:59
really appreciate you having me on.
1:01
Oh my gosh, I'm thrilled. And I and I really, what you're
1:04
doing and what you're saying is really resonating.
1:07
And so I'm going to just jump right in.
1:09
Just say that louder for my children if you could.
1:12
Just louder, just so they can. It is really resonating and
1:16
you're doing a great job by kind of setting this example for your
1:20
kids because and what you say and you say this, you know, on
1:23
your sub stack, you've said this in different places.
1:25
Parenting is a political act. Can you tell us about what made
1:29
that that click for you? Like when you realized raising
1:33
kids and resisting injustice were going to have to be part of
1:36
the same job. Yeah, absolutely.
1:38
You know, I think when I had my first child way back in 2010,
1:43
which feels like the Stone Age, you know, I have AI, have a teen
1:49
between and a toddler. So I run the gambit of parenting
1:53
right now and the toddler supplies and baby supplies much
1:57
different from what they were in 2010.
2:00
So I refer to Zoe as my Stone Age baby because I'm pretty sure
2:05
her equipment would not be street legal now.
2:09
But when I had her in 2010, I envisioned that the scope of
2:16
political involvement that this child would see from me would be
2:23
occasionally taking her to go vote with us, if only to get a
2:27
sticker for her complaining on random election nights when SNL
2:34
was pre empted because there's some random election that we're
2:39
following. But that was really going to be
2:42
the end of it. I never imagined that I would
2:45
have to explain authoritarianism to a 15 year old, to 12 year
2:53
old, and in some ways to a four year old.
2:57
Everything has to be age appropriate and I try to meet
3:00
them where they're at. But when I say parenting is a
3:04
political act, there is no way that I can go about life as
3:12
normal, business as usual stops, but I still have to parent.
3:20
And I'm still having to decide what's for dinner while also
3:27
talking to my children about why we're bringing dinners to mutual
3:33
aid pantries, why we're stocking community fridges because SNAP
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benefits are being cut. We can't have these
3:43
conversations without there being that political under
3:48
score. And when they're watching what
3:52
I'm doing and what I'm saying, I need to be honest and tell them
3:58
the reasons why. And some of those reasons are
4:03
scary to them. Some of them are infuriating.
4:07
Especially for my 2 girls, The teen and tween, the toddler,
4:14
he's, he's not really there so much.
4:17
He's, he's more of like, oh, good.
4:20
We're putting, we're putting treats in a bag for the fridge.
4:23
OK, good, good, good. Give that to me.
4:26
That's the, the length of his involvement.
4:28
But the girls, you know, I think when Roe V Wade was overturned,
4:38
I had a hard time processing that myself.
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And, you know, I'm in my mid 40s.
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And I didn't expect them to have a concept of what that meant.
4:55
And I tried to make it palatable, to explain it on
5:01
their level. And all I could really get out
5:04
of my mouth was you don't have the same things that I had at
5:11
your age. And you know, when those words
5:18
came out because they wanted to know why I was sad, why I was
5:21
crying. Why was daddy kind of irked, but
5:25
mommy was crying. And you know, when I when that
5:31
sentence came out of my mouth, I'm sad because you don't have
5:35
the same things I had now. Because it is so personal, it's.
5:42
Right, it absolutely is. And this past election season,
5:49
you know, my daughters are very aware now at 15 and 12 of the
5:54
goings on. You know, I like to think that
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unfortunately they're reading comprehension and context clues
6:02
are sadly, but also yay, better than for most of the population
6:09
because brain worm was a deal breaker for them on our junior.
6:16
They were like, wait, he had a brain worm.
6:18
Wait, he talked a bear cub in the park.
6:20
He drove with a shark on his car.
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He swam in that. And they're like, but you know,
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America's like, hey, Senator Bill Cassidy.
6:32
My senator was like, hey, but my girls were like, yeah, that's
6:35
going to be a no for me. They're aware now.
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I can't shield them from this. And frankly, I don't want them
6:45
to. I don't want them to be in the
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dark. I want them awake.
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I want them to know what's going on.
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I want them to know why. Hey, when we see somebody pulled
6:57
over on the side of the road and we don't recognize those cars
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and there are men talking to a woman, you're going to get in,
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lock the doors, start recording, and mommy's going to get out and
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they know. But you're, you know, you're not
7:13
just bringing it to them, you're bringing it to everybody.
7:15
So just for anybody who doesn't know you, I'm going to just
7:18
explain and tell me if I'm wrong.
7:19
You had this following fake adult mom was memes.
7:23
It was funny parenting stuff since 2017, but it was huge.
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It wasn't like, it wasn't like little.
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It was an enormous amount of followers, right?
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I mean, it was, yeah, it was nice.
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I mean. I'd like to say that as long as
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like a few people who weren't related to me liked it, I felt
7:41
big. It was big, it was big and it is
7:44
big. But you, you made the decision
7:47
at some point to total switch gears and now it's not really
7:51
funny right now. No, I mean.
7:54
You're not so funny. Funny.
7:56
And the absurdity of it all, I'm sure.
7:58
I mean, I, I, I sometimes I look back at the things that we
8:02
normalize now and that terrified me in just January of this year.
8:09
And now I'm like, oh, that's so quite.
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Because now I'm like, you know, they're taking toddlers out of
8:17
cars, you know, and, and I'm just like, oh, I can't believe I
8:21
was worried about doge, you know, like, how cute.
8:26
How cute. Yeah.
8:29
What was the turning point though, for you to make that so
8:32
you didn't just switch? Like you don't just have another
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account, you literally deleted all your other stuff, right?
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You know, I couldn't in good conscience joke about oh, my
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kids won't go to sleep on time, Oh my kids can't find their
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shoes, but my children constantly ask me for money.
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I am such a tired person because I have children.
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Those memes. I couldn't in good conscience
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leave that up because that was almost like pretending we were
9:02
still in that world and and we're just not.
9:07
Like I said, I can't go back to business as usual.
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I don't have that little life where I can complain about my
9:14
kids not going to sleep. I mean, I will still complain
9:18
one. 1000% I will do that. But I'm also going to be really
9:23
grateful, A, my kids are with me.
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B, we've got a safe place to sleep.
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CI don't have to worry about the things that a lot of people are
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worrying about because I'm privileged to have the skin
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color that I do. And God, I hate that I'm
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grateful for that. But I hate that we're also the
9:52
type of country where I have to be grateful.
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I hate having to explain that to my children.
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I hate having to explain to them that we are in this bubble that
10:08
we are fortunate to be in. But we can't.
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We can't appreciate what we have without also acknowledging the
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people that don't and trying to balance what we have with what
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we give. And, you know, fake adult mom
10:36
and resist like a mother. They're born of the same class,
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but one is out of a desire to. I figure, look, if I'm thinking
10:47
this stuff, chances are there's another mom that is going to be
10:53
thinking this. How do I how do I decide what's
10:56
for dinner and also tell my child that there is a predator
11:01
in the White House? How do I run a Costco and then
11:06
explain to my child that the National Guard is being called
11:09
into our city? If I'm thinking it, maybe
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another mom is thinking it and she doesn't know how to how to
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make it click for her kids. And I've always said I don't
11:24
post for everybody. I don't really post for anybody.
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I post for me. And I hope that what I post
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reaches someone like minded who's going to pass it on to
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somebody else who's like minded. And we built. 100% I think that
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that's that's you know, when I saw your posts, I, it resonated.
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I mean, that's why I reached out.
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It's just you're speaking in a way that I think so many moms
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find relatable. And we're all worried about our
11:55
kids. And we all, you know, we're all
11:56
worried about all the things, getting them to bed on time.
11:59
Did they eat their vegetables? Who wants to deal with bath
12:01
night? Like, there are all those very
12:04
practical right now moments. But there's also the issue of,
12:08
like, the world at large. And, you know, as you're
12:11
talking, I can like, see that you're getting upset.
12:14
And of course you are, because it's upsetting.
12:16
Not a upset, it's more of it's just, it's, it's somber, it's
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sadness. There's so much that I've had to
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explain to my children that I it's innocence that's taken from
12:33
them that I will never be able to give back to them.
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And look, I'm not even going to pretend that we are on the scale
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of other people. But like I tell my kids,
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everyone's hard is hard. My kids are not the children in
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Gaza. They are not the children who
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were taken hostage. They are not the children in
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Sudan or the Congo, but they are still children and their heart
13:01
is hard. And children in America right
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now who are watching this stuff on TV happen in their country,
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not some far away place that maybe due to our educational
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system, they can't pick out on the globe.
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It's here. Well, you talk about like grief
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for the country you love when you you you wrote a bunch of
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posts that are going to potentially be a book called the
13:30
handbook of the recently the handbook for the recently
13:32
resisting and you said it's grief for the.
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Absolutely it's it is it is 1000% grief for the country that
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I love. And maybe that's naivete of, of
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my, my very non melanin skinned self because the country that I
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loved, you know, I grew up staying with liberty and justice
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for all. And I thought we meant that and.
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You know, I keep saying the same thing too.
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It's not that it was, It's not that I was living in some kind
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of disillusionment that like America was great for everybody.
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And we're all just like living in like Happy Lego Valley, you
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know, just there wasn't that. But there was the there was the
14:19
belief in this ideal and that that we had a there was a
14:24
promise. There was a belief that there
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could be. Yes, yeah.
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And now that is shattered in many ways.
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You know, that's and it's and now I am living under like it's
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almost like a disillusioning because I'm like, I am complete
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now. There's so much fear and it and
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it kind of permeates every aspect of your life.
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So how could you not when kids take up so much of your life?
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They're part of everything, right?
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They don't just go in their bedrooms.
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You don't put them in the shelf at 5:00 and well, I'm done for
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the day. So how would it not?
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Lift them and get them onto the shelf.
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Yes. Right.
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But yeah, no, it doesn't. My job is to raise these
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beautiful humans into good decent people that will one day
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leave my home. Not too soon, but one day they
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will start their own lives outside of this home.
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And I would be remiss if what am I sending them out into doesn't
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concern me on the daily. And also, I want to make sure
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that what I'm sending out is incredible, and I'm not going to
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be able to do that if I'm not honest with them about what I'm
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leaving them and leading them to.
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Unfortunately, the way the country is going right now, I
15:51
don't really have a lot of hope for what is being left to them.
15:56
But I do hope that what I'm leading them to, to speak up, to
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make sure they say no, that's not OK.
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Make sure they say I don't. I don't get why that's funny.
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Why is that funny? Can you explain it to me?
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When they hear a joke that's, I'm going to just say
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distasteful. You know, my girls go to an all
16:29
girls school and that's important for us.
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My girls have been going there since 2012.
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My oldest when she was two, my youngest when she was 18 months,
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we started going to nursery school there and they love it.
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But the reason why we picked an all girls education, besides
16:49
that girls tend to thrive was because of the mass shootings
16:58
that were going on. And this was before Sandy Hook.
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But I was looking at statistics and saying that the majority of
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mass shooters were why chromosomes if you will.
17:09
And I wanted to protect my babies so they don't encounter a
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lot of distasteful jokes, if you will.
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OK, but when there have been kind of interschool events, my
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oldest daughter about two years ago at an academic games
17:36
tournament, which is the whitest and nerdiest sentence I have
17:40
uttered in a while. I had a a male student from
17:45
another school tell her she didn't belong there and it's a
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girl. Yeah, because she was a girl.
17:53
And, you know, she promptly finished and then went up to the
18:00
director. I mean, it was even like, mom,
18:02
I've got this. And I was like, see that kid?
18:06
You need to tell that kid to change the way he thinks, or I'm
18:12
going to tell my school that we can't play here.
18:16
And we have his written apology framed in her room, you know?
18:23
Absolutely epic of her. Well, I mean, you know, she was
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13. So I think it's it, it does take
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a hefty set of ovaries at 13 to do that on your own.
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But that's what I mean about raising like these little
18:38
resistors, because she could have sat in that discomfort and
18:42
she could have made herself smaller.
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She didn't. She made herself bigger.
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She took up the space that she wanted, she took up the space
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that she needed, and she made sure that guy knew how much
18:55
space she wanted to take up well.
18:58
Not only that, like not only are you re like raising, like you
19:02
said, little resistors, right? So you're teaching them how to
19:05
act in response to what we're seeing from absolutely adults in
19:09
charge. But some people like, you know,
19:12
what do you think today's kids are learning?
19:14
Learning from the adults in church.
19:16
Some. You're seeing a lot more racism.
19:18
You're seeing a lot more bullying.
19:20
Bullying's gone up like sky high.
19:22
I mean, you see just the way people speak to one another in
19:28
anywhere, the grocery store, anywhere.
19:31
How do you counter that as parents inside saying resist
19:36
like because some people are saying it's okay you can be a
19:38
bully. Like all our lessons about be
19:41
nice, treat people the way you want to be treated.
19:43
It's like it's a joke. I love you.
19:46
Want to really girls? I let my girls look in on my DMS
19:50
with me and my DMS are a delight.
19:54
Oh, Danielle, they are a delight.
19:56
Let me tell you. They are a fun mix of here's the
20:00
promo code we'd love for you to collab on, a jewelry line that
20:04
you have to pay for somehow, genitalia and a mix of threats.
20:12
And I find that some of the threats come from teenage boys.
20:20
So now I make it a point to once I find out that they're minors
20:24
that I say, look, I I need your parents permission if we're
20:28
going to continue to talk because I don't feel comfortable
20:31
talking to you without them. One time this kid Facetimed me
20:36
and his mom gave me permission to talk to him.
20:40
But I I tell the girls, you know, you have to talk to
20:45
people. You can walk away if you feel
20:47
uncomfortable, but you walk away with a big presence.
20:55
You don't walk away some more. But if you can ask them with a
20:59
straight face, why do you think it's OK to say that to me?
21:06
Let them respond. Let them answer their own
21:10
question. Let them describe why they feel
21:14
emboldened to threaten you. Some people say things to me
21:20
like, oh, because you're dumb Lib, insert your own, whatever.
21:24
And I'll say, why do you think that?
21:27
Well, you think you should be giving away all of our tax
21:30
dollars to illegal immigrants? And I'm like, who are the
21:34
illegal immigrants? Where are tax dollars going?
21:39
And then they'll ask me questions.
21:42
They'll say things like, well, you think it's OK to to give,
21:46
give away free healthcare, Just anybody.
21:49
I say foster children. Is it free?
21:53
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22:37
What do they say when it's the teenage?
22:39
Like for example, the one FaceTime, the one that Facetimed
22:42
you? What?
22:43
Well. He had said some really
22:44
derogatory things and I initiated a video call and I
22:51
said say it's my face. And I saw he was like a 16 year
22:58
old kid and he was at work and I was like, oh, you're a teenager.
23:04
And I said, well, I can't talk to you until like I've got
23:08
permission for your parents. And he called me some other
23:10
choice words and I said, like I said, I can't talk to you until
23:14
you. So he called back and with his
23:19
mom, and, you know, his mom was like, what did you say to her?
23:25
And I said, and I said, please say it to my face.
23:30
And he said, no, ma'am. I said, well, why did you think
23:33
that you could write that to me? Because I was really upset about
23:37
all the stuff you were saying about Donald Trump.
23:39
I was like, well, Donald Trump is a adult.
23:44
Donald Trump is in his late 70s. You don't think Donald Trump can
23:47
handle himself? Do you think you need to stand
23:50
up for Donald Trump? You need to defend Donald Trump?
23:55
If Donald Trump is still great, why are you out there defending
23:58
him? Don't you have other stuff to
24:01
do? And what was the outcome of
24:03
this? The mom thanked me.
24:07
The kid and I, we, we occasionally stay in contact
24:12
occasionally, you know, he said he liked my Miss Rachel costume
24:18
for Halloween. So it's, it's weird.
24:21
It's. But you know, it's crazy because
24:25
the very first podcast I ever episode I ever did was with
24:28
Nikki Vink. Have you heard of Nikki Vink?
24:30
OK, I love Nikki and one of the thing and I was just rehashing
24:34
some of quotes to put on social media last night.
24:36
So I just saw it and she was like, these hard conversations
24:40
have to be had because even if you're not changing someone's
24:43
mind, the fact and and of course I'm paraphrasing, but the fact
24:47
is you're, you're showing humanity.
24:52
You know what I mean? You're you're human and you're
24:54
not behind a screen. And in this isn't how we talk to
24:59
people in real life. It wasn't how we talk to people
25:01
in real life. And and so just having this hard
25:04
conversations, even if they're not, you know, he's not like
25:07
having this moment where he's like, you're totally right,
25:10
right. No and.
25:11
Look, I don't expect him to. In fact, you know, I was at the
25:16
meow. Tuck it a protest when JD Vance
25:20
went up to Nantucket, it was my birthday and I've got family in
25:24
Massachusetts and I'm good friends with cats on a couch.
25:29
And so we decided to meet up in Nantucket.
25:33
And there were these group of teenage boys that were kind of
25:36
like just harassing the protesters and my family's
25:42
personal nickname. And I cannot believe I am
25:44
admitting this publicly. So Nanny and Uncle Jay, enjoy
25:50
your moment. My family nickname growing up
25:55
was Renege because I could talk all day long and I could get
26:03
what I wanted by just nagging them to death.
26:06
OK, I like it. I like.
26:07
It I put on my renege and mom hat and went up to these boys
26:12
and just nagged them until they left.
26:16
I asked them about their college plans, what AP courses they were
26:20
taking. One of them was trying to get in
26:23
a 2 lane and I was like, oh, I'm from New Orleans.
26:26
And they were like, oh, can you help me get in?
26:28
I was like, yeah, probably not if you end up on the news
26:31
because you're harassing people at protests.
26:34
And they were like, oh, and I was like, see, I was like, look,
26:38
I'm a mom. I wouldn't want my 17 year old
26:41
who's applying to colleges to be on the news right now.
26:45
There's bad reason. There's this whole world of kids
26:48
that doesn't realize like how this carries over.
26:51
But then but the flip side is then we have again a president
26:55
who he's been caught in every which way and we've still
26:59
elevated him to the Hyatt. So they're probably like, who
27:01
cares? Well.
27:02
Here's the thing about that too. And cool saying it out loud.
27:10
You know, we've always had very specific rules for our girls and
27:15
our son when he gets ready, you know, to go on play dates
27:19
without us and for sleepovers and friend gatherings.
27:23
And you know, with this election, my friends don't go to
27:29
Trump supporters houses. And that's not because I'm
27:33
trying to be mean and it's not because I'm trying to be
27:35
punitive. Your kids.
27:37
OK, sorry. All right.
27:39
The kids obviously can't vote. But if the parents, if I know
27:43
that they're Republicans, if I know that they're Trump
27:45
supporters, my kids don't go over there.
27:48
And like I said, that's not to be punitive towards the child.
27:53
It's not to be punitive towards my child.
27:55
It's just I don't respect their judgement and if I can't trust
28:01
them to make the same decision I had to make last November if
28:09
they could not take the time to read Project 2025 like I could,
28:15
or even the Cliff notes of it like my husband, No you don't.
28:21
You don't get the privilege of being around my child and you
28:24
certainly don't get to be alone with them in any capacity.
28:28
So, you know, part of you. Just said I don't trust their
28:33
judgement. Oh.
28:34
Absolutely not. Because it's not even being
28:37
punitive towards them, right? This is my most precious this.
28:41
Is where parenting becomes political.
28:43
Because my, for instance, my daughter had an invitation to go
28:49
to a party of a very good and dear friend who we adore.
28:54
And unfortunately, one of her parents voted for Trump in
29:00
November and the mom did not, but the father did.
29:06
And unfortunately, the mom was not going to be at home at this
29:11
time because they have other children and it was just going
29:14
to be the dad. And look, before 2024, I
29:19
probably would have said, yeah, go over to so and so's house, go
29:22
have fun, you know, I'll pick you up at 3:00 this time.
29:27
I said, no, sorry, can't go. And she said, well, why not?
29:32
I was like, well, you know, I don't trust Mr. so and so's
29:36
judgement. And she's like, well, why not?
29:40
I was like, well, because he voted for Trump.
29:44
Yeah, but, but, but insert friend's name says he regrets
29:48
it. And I said, well, you know,
29:50
baby, I don't see what he's doing to repair it.
29:54
And you can regret it all you want, but regret without repair
29:58
isn't redemption. So I don't see how his judgement
30:02
has changed. And if I can't trust him to make
30:08
a good decision for his daughters, I certainly can't
30:13
trust him to make a good decision for mine.
30:16
Oh my gosh, that is basically we can hang up now that I mean,
30:23
right like that because OK, thank you.
30:28
And you know, not everybody right, is not everybody is
30:31
thinking like you or thinking about this or maybe drawing
30:34
lines in the sand. And I don't want to say they're
30:36
lines in the sand, but maybe even having these standards like
30:38
my kids not going to go here for this, which makes a lot of sense
30:41
to me reason. But but some people are being
30:46
completely silent in the face of it.
30:48
And sometimes some people will say I just didn't even vote for
30:51
anybody. That's how much I don't like it
30:53
I'm. And I get that a lot.
30:55
And that's such a silence. What do you think that costs us?
30:59
Silence. You know, listen, one of my very
31:03
dear friends from I mean, we will, we will both just not say
31:11
how long we've been friends. It's that long, but we've known
31:16
each other at every stage of our lives.
31:19
Teens, young 20s, young wives, young mothers, old mothers,
31:25
mothers of teens. We've known each other a long
31:28
time, and we've been through just about every evolution that
31:31
you can go through as young women to whatever this
31:35
perimenopausal state of ours is. And she does not like to talk
31:41
politics to which I I go, she goes, well, I'm just, I'm just
31:46
not into politics. I'm like, well, politics is into
31:49
you. So what do you if there's a
31:54
fire, are you just going to shop around for quotes or are you
31:57
going to call the fire department?
32:00
And she's like, well, that that's not political.
32:02
I'm like, it absolutely is your tax dollars.
32:06
Who to fund the fire department? And she's like, you know what I
32:10
mean? I I don't, I don't want to talk
32:12
about Trump. Why not?
32:15
Because. Because we're not going to
32:17
agree. What are we not going to agree
32:18
on? Well, you don't like him.
32:21
What makes you think I don't like him?
32:23
Besides the everything about me? But you know, she's like, well,
32:28
you know, you, you call him a pedophile and where's the lie?
32:38
And I, I finally, you know, I'll, I'll text her pictures of
32:41
Trump with Ivanka and she goes, this isn't real.
32:44
I'm like, yes, it is. OK.
32:47
There was an AI in 1991 when this picture was posted.
32:53
And I'll say, would you leave him with your kid?
32:58
No. If you wouldn't leave him with
33:01
your kid, why would you leave him with your country?
33:06
Why would you let it? Just when you get down to brass
33:10
tacks like this man has bankrupted everything he's
33:15
touched, including his own children, who, I mean, their
33:21
businesses aren't exactly on the up and up.
33:26
I mean, we're talking stealing from cancer charity.
33:32
What about people who say, you know, I've heard this too, and I
33:35
this is weird, like so I am not, I am going to keep people on
33:38
this podcast episode for so long.
33:40
I'm so sorry, but I need to know what about what do you say to
33:44
you know, there are there are quite a few people that I know
33:48
that voted for Trump that but that say they don't like him.
33:52
They don't like him. But you know, he's he's the best
33:55
choice to lead the country. He's what he's doing is is good
34:00
for the country. Just out of curiosity.
34:03
I would say, is it good for your children?
34:08
Is it good for your daughter to see?
34:11
Do you want your son to be like Trump?
34:14
That's what I would say. Because and, and that's the
34:17
thing so much of your work asks the question, what kind of
34:21
people are we raising? Because and why do you think is
34:24
mothers in particular have so much at stake in politics?
34:27
Because and so much potential to change it?
34:30
Well, you know, I think a lot of default parenting rests on the
34:35
backs of mothers. I think unfortunately that is
34:40
the way our society has organized.
34:43
We have crap for maternal healthcare in this country.
34:49
We have crap for postpartum resources for paid leave.
34:54
Just as just as a just a reference point, when my oldest
34:59
was born my husband got a week off one week for paternity
35:05
leave. I had AI had AC section and he
35:11
got an extra week for that. So I had two weeks of help at
35:18
home before my husband had to go back to work.
35:22
I wasn't even fully recovered from C-section yet.
35:25
Now thankfully I was a stay at home mom, but had I been the
35:32
sole provider in our family and had to go back to work, I don't
35:37
know how I would have done that. Our country does not really
35:42
value what we do, but definitely wants us to keep doing it.
35:50
Now when my last child was born in 2021, my husband had a
35:54
standard month off and because I had AC section with my son, he
35:59
had an extra 2 weeks. And then he was able to take
36:02
family medical leave. And so, you know, if thankfully
36:07
my husband was able to be home and he's kind of taking on some
36:10
of the default parenting with our son, but you know, I just
36:15
feel like mothers we're, we just know how to get it done.
36:21
But so for so long, I feel like motherhood was treated as like
36:25
private, domestic, apolitical, right?
36:28
We're just. Well, think about, you know,
36:30
coming from coming from a place in the South.
36:34
And even though New Orleans is a, is a blue dot in a very
36:37
RedState, we're still Southern. You know, it's, oh, you want to
36:42
be polite? You want to be polite.
36:44
I'm not interested in making you comfortable.
36:47
I'm interested in making sure that my children have better
36:51
than I do. And that's kind of the whole
36:54
point of parenting is that we leave them better than what we
36:59
had. And going back to that Roe V
37:02
Wade overturned moment, Mama was crying because they don't have
37:08
it better. And that's not how it's supposed
37:11
to be. It's not how it's supposed to
37:14
be. So I think mothers, you know,
37:17
our whole goal when, when we meet our children for the first
37:22
time, whether it's in our arms at the hospital or given to us
37:29
by a surrogate or a birth parent, we have a connection
37:37
where and a promise where we say this is for you, this is for
37:42
you, I am for you. And sometimes they take that a
37:47
little too literally and they will take all of your stuff.
37:51
They will come in in the night and you're like, what are you
37:53
doing? They're like, I need your
37:54
Airpods. How do I connect your Airpods?
37:57
How do I I need them on my phone?
37:59
I'm like, it's 7, it's a Saturday.
38:03
What, you know, I think a lot of us, especially parents with
38:11
careers outside of the home, at the end of the day, how you
38:17
define yourself. I bet if you're a parent, parent
38:23
comes in there. Look at how politicians define
38:26
themselves. Even like Mikey, Cheryl in this,
38:31
you know, last New Jersey race, I was, I was watching Obama
38:35
speak and he introduced her and he's introducing her saying, you
38:40
know it, she's got these children, but she wants to take
38:45
on, you know, politics. And I'm, I'm, I'm like, yeah,
38:52
I'd rather deal with politics too than than other people's
38:56
children. But yeah, I got it.
38:59
You know, it's, it's just mom is going to be in your bio, Dad is
39:02
going to be in your bio somewhere.
39:04
You know, when politicians send out their Flyers, it's not just
39:07
a big picture of them next to a flag.
39:09
Most often they've got the wife, they've got the three kids.
39:13
Some people put in that token golden retriever.
39:17
And you know, it's just parenting is part of your
39:21
identity. It's not all of it, but it's a
39:24
big chunk. But I and I feel like though
39:27
what I'm even just on social media, maybe it's just me and
39:29
it's my feet and stuff, but you see more moms.
39:34
I don't see a lot of movements that have the word dad in it.
39:39
And I'm not knocking dads. They certainly got they're
39:42
doing, they're doing their thing.
39:44
But a lot of like movements, there's moms running, Moms
39:48
Demand Action. You resist like a mother.
39:52
There's something about that. And I hate the phrase the Mama
39:55
bear, but there is something so fierce about the way we'll be
40:00
willing to protect our children. You know, I think bear with me
40:05
through this metaphor, but you know that that choice, it was
40:10
very viral last year or maybe even the year before.
40:14
I don't, I don't know. I'm lucky.
40:16
I know my own name. Sometimes it was do we choose
40:19
the man or the bear? And a lot of women said, oh, I
40:23
definitely choose the bear. If you have to be alone in the
40:25
forest with a random man or a random bear, who do you choose
40:33
to be alone with? And my feed is blowing up with
40:37
this question. And every woman is like bear,
40:40
bear, bear, bear, bear, bear, bear.
40:43
And I made a meme with Belle from Beauty and the Beast and
40:49
Beast. And I was like, since the early
40:51
90s, we've been choosing the bear.
40:53
And I kid you not, all of these men were like, he's technically
40:56
not a bear. He's technically a beast.
41:00
He's he's not a bear. Like, are you mansplaining
41:02
Beauty and the Beast to me on this?
41:04
Like, are you really doing that right now?
41:05
This is why I choose the bear. The bear's just going to eat me
41:08
and get it over with. You are going to mansplain,
41:10
probably rape me, God only knows what else.
41:15
Worst case scenario, I'm going to have to meet your mom.
41:19
So, you know, yeah, I'm going to choose the bear.
41:22
But I think a lot of women choose the bear because we are
41:28
the fucking bear. We are the bear.
41:32
We are the Mama bear. And you may not really like that
41:36
term, but hear me out. Mama bears.
41:40
We'll fight till the end. You mess with one of our Cubs,
41:44
we will come get you. We will find you.
41:49
We will find your mom and you're going to apologize to my cub.
41:57
Oh yeah, I like that. And you know, it's funny.
41:59
I'll. I've seen memes of like, you
42:02
know, you say like that mother who's still mad at like
42:07
something that happened to their kid in preschool and their kids
42:09
like 35. You know, I'm like this.
42:12
This relates so much because you don't forget either.
42:16
You're. You know.
42:17
Held your child up. You remember you.
42:19
Didn't and listen, my mom, we we're looking at preschools for
42:24
my son right now and my mom one particular preschool and she's
42:29
like, isn't that where so and so sends their child?
42:32
And I was like, yes. And she's like, he broke your
42:37
heart. I was like, yeah, yeah, he did.
42:39
He he did in 1997. Yes, he did.
42:44
And she's like you're. Like I'm OK now he's.
42:45
Like, don't send Julian there. I'm like, I I really don't think
42:51
Julian's going to have beef with someone he doesn't know exists,
42:54
but go on. And she's like bad.
42:57
Never liked him. Never.
42:58
I told you that. I mean, this was a 30 minute
43:00
conversation. She's still on.
43:03
Still on. Quick pause to invite you into
43:07
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43:10
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43:12
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43:26
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Every share helps bring more women's stories into the
43:32
spotlight. All right, let's get back to the
43:34
episode. Here's the thing.
43:36
When I I, I made it a point to say this specifically, your cub
43:39
is going to apologize to my cub. Not I'm going to take your Cub
43:43
out. Not I'm going to destroy your
43:45
cub. As much as I would like to
43:47
throttle your cub, I'm not going to do that because all kids
43:53
belong to us. If I see your kid hurting, I'm
43:58
going to try to make him feel better.
44:00
Every mom has had this moment where we've been in a store,
44:05
we've been in Barnes and Noble, we see a toddler having a
44:08
meltdown. We feel for that mom.
44:11
If you're one of the moms that is side eyeing in judgement, or
44:15
worse, you're one of the grandma's side eyeing in
44:19
judgement. Shame, shame.
44:23
Insert Game of Thrones meme because real moms don't do that.
44:28
Real moms say, how can I help Real moms hold the door while
44:33
you carry out your child's surfboard style.
44:38
Real, real moms, you know, we get it.
44:41
They don't shame other moms. Right, because mom, mom shaming
44:44
is kind of like one of the dirtiest things she can do.
44:50
You know, I, I just, when I say like your cub is going to
44:55
apologize to my cub is because we're going to teach our Cubs to
44:59
treat each other with respect and come together.
45:03
We're not going to teach our Cubs to hate each other.
45:07
My children, when we're watching the news and we, we see
45:15
politicians that we don't agree with on a moral level, not just
45:19
a policy level, but a moral level, we don't hate them.
45:25
We pity them and we want them to do better.
45:29
That is very big of you. Look, I'm not saying it's easy,
45:35
but I don't think any parent wants their kid to grow up.
45:38
Hateful. No.
45:41
Well, you don't think so? Nobody wants to be mired in
45:44
hate. I don't think anybody wants
45:46
that. I think at the end of the day,
45:47
what we want is a safe place to land.
45:51
I personally a cold Diet Coke from McDonald's preferably and I
45:57
want to know that my babies are OK and unfortunately a lot of
46:01
people can't say that at the end of the day because.
46:06
The people. In charge, making policies that
46:10
aren't humane. Yeah.
46:14
Well, and I was going to say, you know, there's first of all,
46:16
there are, there are so many people who are being affected by
46:19
these policies. You don't have the luxury of
46:22
checking out, right, because they're literally worried about
46:25
somebody knocking at their front door.
46:27
Then put this into you. Right then there are people like
46:30
you and I who, by the by the luck of the draw, happen to have
46:34
skin that isn't putting us a color that isn't putting us at
46:37
risk. So some and and and here's the
46:42
thing, universally, we're tired. This has been going on a long
46:46
time. It just seems to be getting
46:47
worse. People are both exhausted but
46:50
then also incredibly awake. What do you say to them?
46:53
How can people start resisting without without burning out and
46:57
checking out? Actually, I kind of want to
46:59
bring something back because it it reminded me of something when
47:01
you said, why do you think mothers are are kind of
47:04
propelling these movements and dads are kind of not on the
47:08
sidelines, but always kind of maybe not the first to step up.
47:13
It's because from the time women are born we are taught to not
47:22
take candy from strangers to When I started driving, make
47:25
sure I park under a street light in the parking lot.
47:28
Make sure I lock my car doors when I get out.
47:31
When I'm walking back to my car, make sure my key is in my hand
47:34
like this. Make sure I look under the car
47:37
so there isn't a someone hiding under there ready to slice my
47:41
Achilles tendon. Make sure someone isn't in the
47:44
back seat. We are taught to be hyper aware
47:47
of the person following us through a store.
47:50
We are, we're taught to be hyper aware of the person that looks
47:52
at us a little too long. We are taught to be hyper aware
47:56
of our surroundings, the exits, where we go, who we go with,
48:00
what time we left. Make sure a friend knows from a
48:04
from. I mean, from the time I was a
48:07
kid, it's the buddy system. And my husband certainly didn't
48:12
have to do that. And you know, when I go out with
48:17
our children, we have a code word for if you want to leave
48:21
because you feel unsafe for any reason, you say this word.
48:24
I drop what we have. We're at the store.
48:28
My husband, he's like, what? What?
48:33
And my daughter's texting me and she's like, I seen some weird
48:35
guys staring at me and I'm like, leave, you know, like I'm
48:41
telling my husband leave. He's like, I didn't see the guy.
48:43
I'm like, because you're not trained to focus on it.
48:47
And moms have pattern recognition.
48:50
We know the guy that doesn't belong at the park.
48:54
We know that when we're watching our kids on the merry go round
48:58
or the swing set and there's this weird guy that just keeps
49:01
walking around, maybe taking pictures, maybe just sitting
49:05
there on his phone. We don't know.
49:06
We don't want to find out. We get our kids.
49:09
We tell the mom sitting at the bench over there, hey, see the
49:12
creep, let's go. We've got pattern recognition.
49:16
And with that pattern recognition, I think a lot of
49:19
moms are using that to say, oh, that creep at the park.
49:24
He's now in the White House. And and I think too, what you
49:30
mentioned about your like everybody's children are our
49:33
children. There is that idea of universal
49:35
mothering, like even when you just said this a few weeks ago,
49:39
months ago, weeks slash a few months ago, I took my daughter
49:43
to see The Lumineers. We love The Lumineers.
49:45
And it was just the two of us. And he's like, well, my awesome.
49:49
And in front of us there was, you know, there's a row and
49:52
there were there was a couple. And at first it was super
49:55
annoying because this couple would not stop making out and
49:57
like the PDA was over the top. I mean, and it was so they were
50:01
so intense that other people in other rows were commenting like,
50:05
I guess they're missing the whole show because they even
50:08
when they sat down, they were just like looking at each
50:10
other's faces And just so it was intense and it was a lot.
50:14
It was enough to draw your eye. But I'm like, OK, move on.
50:17
Like the show's going on. Like just don't pay attention to
50:19
them. At some point, this couple who
50:23
obviously have been drinking, it wasn't like they started
50:27
fighting and they're arguing And now like now they're sitting
50:31
down and the guy's got his head in his hands and he's like, like
50:35
very frustrated. And the girls like
50:37
simultaneously like she's like silent, like maybe crying or but
50:41
then she's texting her friend and then they start talking and
50:43
we don't, it's loud. You can't hear what's happening,
50:46
but you can hear that this is you can tell this is not going
50:49
super smoothly. And all of a sudden you see the
50:53
guy, the girl starts texting and I can see because I'm right
50:56
behind her that she's texting Uber.
50:57
She's like, she's going to get a ride home.
51:00
And he grabs her phone and I'm like, and she real quick got it.
51:06
She real quick got it back and it's me and my daughter and
51:12
there's another family next to me, a mom dad and three
51:15
daughters. You're like in the family
51:17
section. This couple men right in front
51:19
of me tutors 2 seats down from the girl is another mom and I
51:23
tapped that mom and she's like I got it.
51:25
We're watching like, and it was all of us moms watching this
51:30
girl and making sure and like and checking in.
51:34
And that is just what you do as a mom.
51:38
You. Yeah.
51:39
Because. Because any day that could be
51:42
your girl, right? Any.
51:45
And yeah, anyway, I feel like it's that kind of thing.
51:48
Not that my husband wouldn't get involved or wouldn't stand up
51:51
for somebody, but I feel like a lot of times men, and not
51:57
wrongfully so, they will say another guy is stepping another
52:02
somebody else is handling it and that guy often looks like them,
52:05
right? So that's not I.
52:08
Just don't wait. You know, if I see your kid fall
52:12
on the playground and hit his head, I'm getting up.
52:15
I'm getting up off of the bench, I'm going over there the same
52:19
time you are. I'm not waiting for you to get
52:22
up. And you know, that's not out of
52:25
disrespect or anything. That's not saying you can't
52:29
handle it. It's saying I see hurt child,
52:32
what can I do to help? And I just, I don't, I don't
52:39
know if that's translates universally across the sexes or
52:44
not, but I I think parents, yeah, you definitely have more
52:49
of an instinct to do it. And I think mothers, yeah, we
52:53
can have it more than dads a little bit.
52:56
But you know what? I know some really involved
52:58
dads. I know some really kind of LAX
53:01
moms. But I know this totally true.
53:04
I know this. I will never not see a parent
53:09
get involved when they see a hurt kid.
53:13
And when I mean get involved, I mean in front of them.
53:17
I'm not talking about when they see it on TV and they can change
53:20
the channel. I'm not talking about when they
53:23
hear about it happening in Chicago or they hear about it
53:26
happening in LA or DC. I'm talking about when it's
53:30
right in front of them. And when it's right in front of
53:33
them, there's not one that doesn't rush.
53:36
And a case in point, last night my daughter has a lacrosse
53:40
practice. You know, you get hit in the
53:44
face, you're going to bleed. OK, Happens moms, dads, coaches,
53:51
everybody is oh, can we get, can we get this?
53:53
Can we get this? The medical personnel of the
53:57
parents are coming in, You know, they're like, Oh yeah, it looks
54:00
good, you're fine, you're fine. Just sit out for a little bit.
54:02
You're fine. You just, you know, everybody's
54:04
coming in to check. And the only thing I can say is
54:07
if you're not one of those people who would check, maybe re
54:11
evaluate your parenting style. And that's not shaming, that's
54:15
asking you to evaluate. Or even just your humanity,
54:18
right? You know, I, I feel like at that
54:21
point I'm just by asking, I end the conversation there.
54:27
Yeah, let me ask you one last question because I can have you
54:31
here all day. When you imagine what it the
54:34
idea, the concept of resist like a mother, what do you think that
54:37
looks like in practice, not just online, but in daily life for
54:41
other people who maybe aren't as outspoken or aren't as brave
54:46
with the vitriolic responses or what they're, you know may be
54:52
perceived. Get over it, get over it.
54:55
Pick yourself up, get over it. I'd like to refer to November
55:00
6th, 2024 me as Offred, and I like to refer to November 7th,
55:08
2025 me as Mad Men's Peggy Olson.
55:13
Walking out with her, you know, box and her cigarette hanging
55:18
out of her mouth. From Offred to Olson here, you
55:22
you don't get the luxury of staying quiet anymore if you're
55:25
still staying quiet at this point in the game, you're making
55:29
an active choice. You are making an active choice
55:33
for you. You are making an active choice
55:35
for your children, and honestly, you're making the wrong one.
55:42
Because if you are silent right now, you're complicit.
55:52
Oh, Renee, if you are silent, you.
55:55
I want you to know what I think of you.
55:58
I want you to know that I think you don't even have the balls to
56:02
be on the other side of my viewpoint.
56:06
You have the balls to be neutral while while citizens.
56:11
I'm not talking about your illegal aliens, which is just
56:16
how are you still using that verbiage in 2025?
56:19
But I'm talking about U.S. citizens, US children being
56:26
detained by ICE by mistakes in 2025.
56:32
Are you telling me that the country you love, that the
56:35
so-called greatest country in the world that you love, is not
56:42
worth speaking up for, That you are going to be quiet?
56:48
I would much rather hear that you think Trump is the greatest
56:52
president and have a viewpoint than for you to sit on the
56:55
sidelines because it's more comfortable, because it is going
56:59
to get to a point where it's not comfortable for you anymore.
57:04
And I think women know that because while you and I have
57:07
have said a few times during this podcast that we are lucky
57:12
enough and sadly we have to say lucky enough to be born with the
57:16
skin color that we do, we're still women.
57:23
We are on that. We are on that hierarchy of
57:26
where we go. OK, so right now, yeah, it is
57:30
black and brown people, but then it's going to go to women and
57:37
eventually it will trickle down to the very privileged white men
57:42
maybe. I don't know, but I know it's
57:46
going to be the black and brown people.
57:48
Then it's going to go to all women.
57:50
And I don't want to live in that world.
57:53
So if you're still silent, you're comfortable.
57:57
Now you are paying for that comfort on like high interest
58:02
credit. You are borrowing from your
58:05
children's comfort and that's not OK.
58:09
It's not. Renee.
58:10
I can't thank you enough for everything that you're doing,
58:14
both here spending this time with me and our guests, and also
58:17
for what you're doing on your own.
58:18
You are. Thank you so so much.
58:22
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
58:24
This is actually the very first podcast that I have ever done.
58:28
So this is my I, this is my first time Danielle, I'm.
58:34
Thrilled that I could be that person.
58:35
Thank you, Renee. It.
58:37
Was good for me. I hope it was good for you.
58:39
It was great. Thanks so much for listening to
58:41
Roar and huge thanks to Renee Neiman for such an honest,
58:44
thought provoking conversation. If you enjoyed this episode,
58:47
please follow rate and share Roar.
58:50
It really helps other listeners find the show.
58:52
Next week, I'm joined by Alex Gailey from Bankrate for a deep
58:55
dive into the gender wage gap, what's driving it, what's
58:59
changing and what women can do to reclaim their financial
59:01
power. I'm Danielle Davies, thanks for
59:04
being here. We'll see you next week.