Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SHOCK ARREST, HOTEL TRAIL OF BLOOD, ROB REINER, WIFE MICHELLE STABBED IN BED

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SHOCK ARREST, HOTEL TRAIL OF BLOOD, ROB REINER, WIFE MICHELLE STABBED IN BED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Shock arrest after a local hotel finds a trail of
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: blood leading all the way to the shower. After the
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: brutal murder of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner and his wife
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Michelle found stabbed in their beds, multiple stab wounds, slices,
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: including slices to the arterial veins across the neck. This
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: as in the last hours, a high profile lawyer strides
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: in insisting his client is innocent. I'm Nancy Grace. This
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: with us.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Rob Reiner and his wife were murdered.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Their daughter came across the street that she was right
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: across the road, and.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Then she finds their bodies. They had multiple stab wounds.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: I got totally spun out on uppers. I think it
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: was coke and something else, and I was up for
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: days on end, and I started punching out different things
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: in my guest.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Outs, like a frame, like what like a stuff.
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: I think I.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: Started with the TV, and then I went over to
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: the lamp, and then progressively I just everything in the
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: guest house got wrecked.
• 1:23
  Speaker 6: Our office will be filing charges against Nick Reiner, who
• 1:27
  Speaker 6: was accused of killing his parents, actor director Rob Reiner
• 1:31
  Speaker 6: and photographer producer Michelle Singer Reiner. These charges will be
• 1:36
  Speaker 6: two counts of first degree murder with a special circumstance
• 1:41
  Speaker 6: of multiple murders. He also fast is a special allegation
• 1:46
  Speaker 6: that he personally used a dangerous and deadly weapon, that
• 1:50
  Speaker 6: being a knife.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: You are hearing the local district attorney, and earlier you
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: were hearing Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner's son Nick Reiner, describing
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: how he totally got spun out on uppers. I think
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I was on coke and something else. I was up
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: for days on end and started punching out different things
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: in my guest house. Let me just do a quick
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: little correction right there, Kilo Brantley joining us, a reporter
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: at large dailymail dot com. It wasn't his guest house.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: He was living on the largesse of his parents, Rob
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: and Michelle Reiner, and this wasn't the first time he
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: totally destroyed the guest house. I mean, the entitlement of
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: this guy. Is it true? From what very different from
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: what we first learned that Rob and Michelle Singer Reiner
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: were found their throats slit in their own bed. Is
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: that true? Kila Brantley.
• 2:51
  Speaker 7: That's exactly right, Nancy.
• 2:53
  Speaker 8: It was around Sunday at three point thirty pm when
• 2:57
  Speaker 8: their bodies were discovered. And what we're now learning is
• 3:00
  Speaker 8: Rob and Michelle Reiner had been dead in their bed
• 3:03
  Speaker 8: for some hours. So of course now the police are
• 3:07
  Speaker 8: putting together a timeline of when this could have happened.
• 3:09
  Speaker 8: We know Saturday night there was a fight with Nick
• 3:13
  Speaker 8: and his parents at a party at Conin O'Brien's house
• 3:16
  Speaker 8: at Christmas party, and by Sunday at three thirty pm
• 3:19
  Speaker 8: they were found dead.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Guys, in the last hours, video has emerged of the
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: sun Nick Reiner. Now this is after he allegedly murders
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: both his parents in their sleep. Which are going to
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: circle back to Phillip Dubay about I mean, talk about
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: stalking and predating upon someone attacking your parents in the dark,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: in their sleep when they can't fight back. After that,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: and after he checks into a local hotel and cleans up,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: he's spotted here, let's take a look at Nick Reiner.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: This is the latest happening. Now there he is, Wow,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: he pet clean clothes, he has on a mat outfit.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Check it out. He's got on shoes, without blood, new
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: pants without blood. He's got a backpack, a jacket against
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the cold, a hat. Let's keep watching this because I
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: see him walk in, fully aware of what's happening, going
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: straight to the drink area. He gets a drink, then
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: he goes and stands in line. Yeah, looks totally sane,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: doesn't he. This is from CBS News. By the way,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Philip Dubay joining us a high profile lawyer out of
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: La County, former public defender. There's gonna really be hard
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: for his new high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson, who represented
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Karen Reid to argue mental defect because he looks completely
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: sane right there. He knew to pack. Could you take
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: him down please? He need to pack new clothes, fresh clothes.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: What happened to the murder weapon? Has it been hidden?
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Did he know enough to hide or discard the murder
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: weapons so it will never be found? What knife was that?
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: What utensel did he use to stab his parents and
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: slit their throats? He knows how to go into a
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: gas station. He goes straight to what he wants. He
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: gets it, closes the fridge behind him, comes up to
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: the line and stands there patiently waiting to pay, pays
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: for his food, his drink. Wow, he looks just like
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: you deby going into a gas station. You don't look
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: crazy to me.
• 5:33
  Speaker 9: If you killed during the throes of psychosis, or if
• 5:37
  Speaker 9: you kill while under the influence of some type of
• 5:41
  Speaker 9: NEF induced situation, like a form of methands psychosis, it
• 5:45
  Speaker 9: cannot form the basis of a lethod fats. The jury
• 5:48
  Speaker 9: can factor it in and deciding whether or not he
• 5:51
  Speaker 9: had the intent to kill, but you're not going to
• 5:53
  Speaker 9: walk away from it. And I think what the evidence
• 5:56
  Speaker 9: will probably show is that at some point he was
• 5:59
  Speaker 9: going through some type of the drug induced euphoria, likely
• 6:03
  Speaker 9: from methamphetamine, and that it dissipated and he went to
• 6:07
  Speaker 9: what we call that meth or cocaine crash. And that's
• 6:11
  Speaker 9: why you're seeing him so calm afterwards.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Uh huh, uh huh. Did you interview Nick Reiner and
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: learn all this or you just guessing, You're just projecting
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: he was on meth he was on coke. Now he's
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: in an uphoric downer, and he was a psychosist at
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: the time he murdered his parents. You're just kind of extrapolating,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: is that right?
• 6:35
  Speaker 9: I am telling you. He is a statistic He is
• 6:38
  Speaker 9: the mirror image of that homeless drug addicted population out
• 6:42
  Speaker 9: there that goes through that meth or cocai. It dissipates
• 6:46
  Speaker 9: and then they crash and during that crash stage they
• 6:49
  Speaker 9: are cool.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: You're saying the same thing again? Or am I caught
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: in a demonic echo chamber? Are you making this all up?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Did anybody tell you this? Are you co cal with
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: a high profile lawyer and you know this by some
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: interview with a diffendant? Or are you just spinning it out?
• 7:07
  Speaker 9: That's the yes, I am enriching you as to what
• 7:11
  Speaker 9: the likelihood is.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: That's really what's being okay.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: So where did you get your information? If you could
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: reveal that.
• 7:19
  Speaker 9: I'll tell you what tipped me off that that's what
• 7:21
  Speaker 9: happened when he was arrested. They booked him into the
• 7:26
  Speaker 9: Twin Towers Correctional Facility rather than the Men's County jail.
• 7:31
  Speaker 9: So what that and that is the largest psych hospital
• 7:33
  Speaker 9: in the United States within a jail system. It tells
• 7:37
  Speaker 9: me that at the point of the step.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: To stop, you must cut his mic because for Pete's sake,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Paris Hilton was booked in the Twin towers. That means
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: nothing to me. The fact that he's in the twins town.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: You are spinning out like ru rubble still skin. You're
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: taking mangy looking with hay and you're turning it into gold.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: But guess what that doesn't work with a venoin try lawyer.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: That would be me the live stop right here. You
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: know nothing about his mental state. You know nothing about
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: whether he was on speed, whether it's on meth, whether
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: he's on coke, much less a euphick downer after bottom line.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: You know what?
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Why am I asking a JD like myself mental health
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: questions when I've got doctor Bethany Marshall with me, renowned
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: psycho analyst joining us of this jurisdiction along with Dubay,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: author of deal Breakers. You can see her on Peacock
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: now and find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Philip Dubay is talking about statistics, and all
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: trial lawyers know, if they've ever tried a case and
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: they're not just a talking head, that statistics are overwhelmingly
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: disallowed as evidence at court. So that's not happening now.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if Rainer as in the son Nick
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Reiner had been on meth. It doesn't matter if he's
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: on coke. It doesn't matter what he's on. Voluntary use
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: of drugs or alcohol not a defense, Bethany, I would
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: like you to look at your screen. We're gonna look
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: at this gas station video again. A lot of you
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: may be wondering why is this important? Because Alan Jackson
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: has swooped in the Karen Reid lawyer. This is from
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: CBS News, by the way, and I already see, as
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Dubay said rightfully, that they're gonna try a metal defense argument. Okay,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: but look at this guy. This is a couple of
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: hours after he allegedly slits the throats of both of
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: his parents. You know why, because he just couldn't take
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: living in that multimillionaire home, that lifestyle he was given
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree.
• 9:53
  Speaker 10: You know, Nancy, I see somebody walking casually around in
• 9:56
  Speaker 10: Mini March getting a drink. He show signs of drug
• 10:01
  Speaker 10: abuse here. He's not pacing, he's not agitated. He looks
• 10:05
  Speaker 10: quite calm to me. So instead of putting this in
• 10:08
  Speaker 10: the drug addiction category where somebody's on mess and there's overkill,
• 10:12
  Speaker 10: which I speculated to yesterday. What I'm going to say
• 10:15
  Speaker 10: now is that often with domestic homicide, when somebody successfully
• 10:21
  Speaker 10: kills a family member, there's an extraordinary relief phase afterwards.
• 10:27
  Speaker 10: So they will be quite calm. They will like go shopping,
• 10:31
  Speaker 10: They will I mean a Casey Anthony dance on the
• 10:33
  Speaker 10: stripper pole.
• 10:34
  Speaker 11: They will go out.
• 10:35
  Speaker 10: And enjoy their lives. Now, in terms of drug abuse,
• 10:39
  Speaker 10: I've been looking at all the interviews last night, Nancy,
• 10:41
  Speaker 10: and one of the things I noticed about this guy,
• 10:45
  Speaker 10: Rob Reiner's son is he does a lot of what
• 10:47
  Speaker 10: we call tongue thrusting, pushing his tongue out as he's talking,
• 10:52
  Speaker 10: which means that he has tart of dyskenesia, which is
• 10:55
  Speaker 10: a signed of antipsychotic medication. Meaning this guy was in
• 11:01
  Speaker 10: the lap of luxury of psychiatric care. He had the
• 11:05
  Speaker 10: best psychiatrist, the best hospitalizations, everything available to him. I
• 11:11
  Speaker 10: see this as much more psychological than something that is
• 11:15
  Speaker 10: related to drug addiction.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I want to go to Rob Shooter joining us, a
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: star of Naughty but Nice podcast, author of a brand
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: new book, It Started with a Whisper, which is a
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: big hit on Amazon. Now. You can find him at
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Robsheeter dot substact dot com publicist to the stars, you know,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Rob Sheheeter. I'm going to put you under the microscope
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: right now and do a lightning round. Isn't it true?
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: You know Nick Reiner? Isn't that true?
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: I've met Nick Rider?
• 11:47
  Speaker 12: Yes?
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: So then simple answer, yes, And you have actually sat
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: down and had a meal with him? Yes?
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: No, uh, coffee with him and I maybe across ont.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: That's not a yes, no, but whatever. When you were
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: with him, did he seem psychotic or just a spoiled brad.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: A spoiled brat.
• 12:12
  Speaker 13: He felt entitled, explained he turned up late from meeting
• 12:16
  Speaker 13: that he arranged.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: I didn't arrange it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 13: So he wanted to meet with me in La and
• 12:21
  Speaker 13: he turned up late, kind of late, late enough that
• 12:24
  Speaker 13: you notice, not five ten minutes late late.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: That bothered me.
• 12:27
  Speaker 13: When he turned up, he was rude to the staff,
• 12:30
  Speaker 13: which is always a tell when you turn up and
• 12:33
  Speaker 13: you're rude to people. I remember at one point they
• 12:35
  Speaker 13: got his order wrong and he blew off the handle
• 12:38
  Speaker 13: really shockingly shockingly quick, and then came back down and
• 12:44
  Speaker 13: sat and talked. He was arrogant, he was entitled, and
• 12:47
  Speaker 13: he's sort of had a sense of himself that was
• 12:49
  Speaker 13: way bigger than the reality.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: He believed that he was a.
• 12:54
  Speaker 13: Major player in Hollywood, the same way that he believed
• 12:58
  Speaker 13: he trashed his guest.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: How, No, you are not a major player in Hollywood.
• 13:03
  Speaker 13: Your parents are, your dad is, and that ain't your
• 13:05
  Speaker 13: guest has it's your dad's Rob.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: But why did he want to meet with you? What
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: did he want?
• 13:12
  Speaker 13: He was struggling. He wanted to be a really successful screenwriter.
• 13:16
  Speaker 13: He wanted to be famous. I think he desperately wanted
• 13:20
  Speaker 13: to step out of his mom and dad and his
• 13:22
  Speaker 13: grandpa's shadow. He was a lost guy, and he had
• 13:26
  Speaker 13: access to resources that the rest of us people struggling
• 13:30
  Speaker 13: in the entertainment business would absolutely, absolutely desire. He had
• 13:35
  Speaker 13: phone numbers, he had emails, he had contacts. But unfortunately
• 13:39
  Speaker 13: here he didn't have a lot of talent, and so
• 13:43
  Speaker 13: he had trouble squaring that. And he was looking. He
• 13:45
  Speaker 13: was looking for somebody to come along and turn him
• 13:48
  Speaker 13: into the next amazing screenwriter, which obviously I couldn't do,
• 13:53
  Speaker 13: and nobody else could do any he could do, and
• 13:55
  Speaker 13: he didn't have the gifts to do that.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Rob. Sure, you stated that he contacted you to meet
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: with him because he wanted to become a successful screenwriter.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: What is your experience, Shooter as a screenwriter?
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: My experience is zero. I have never written a screenplay.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, So what you're good at, what your forte is
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: is you are a PR guru. People from all around
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: the world come to you for PR help, public relations help,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: whether they're in a crisis or they just want to
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: become famous for whatever reason. You've seen it all from
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Britney to Sean Combs, so many more. So he didn't
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: come to you for help to become a screenwriter. He
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: came to you because he wanted to be famous.
• 14:40
  Speaker 13: Yeah, there was no craft there. He didn't come to
• 14:42
  Speaker 13: me to learn the art of becoming successful. He had
• 14:45
  Speaker 13: no interest in learning his craft. He had no interest
• 14:48
  Speaker 13: in taking a screenwriting class, in learning how to do this.
• 14:52
  Speaker 13: He wanted to go straight from zero to one hundred.
• 14:55
  Speaker 13: And this is not that uncommoney, It very rarely happens.
• 14:59
  Speaker 13: But everybody he wants to be famous. Everybody wants to
• 15:01
  Speaker 13: be successful. Are you willing to put in the work,
• 15:04
  Speaker 13: the hours, the hours, the years, the years.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I tell everybody that works.
• 15:08
  Speaker 13: With me for a little bit of success, it's going
• 15:10
  Speaker 13: to take five to ten years of hard work.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: He wasn't willing to do that. He wanted to go
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: straight from a zero to one hundred.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Well, how did he want you to make him famous?
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: What were you supposed to do?
• 15:22
  Speaker 13: He had no idea how I'd do it. He thought
• 15:24
  Speaker 13: I'd done it for other people. I explained to him,
• 15:27
  Speaker 13: very very carefully, that I had worked with a lot
• 15:29
  Speaker 13: of lot of celebrities, but I hadn't turned anybody into
• 15:33
  Speaker 13: a star who didn't do the work, and that everybody
• 15:37
  Speaker 13: I worked with, from a Jennifer Lopez.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: To a Jean bon Jovi, works their pailoff.
• 15:42
  Speaker 13: There's there's this thing, this this perception out there that
• 15:45
  Speaker 13: you can become famous overnight without doing the work, and
• 15:49
  Speaker 13: it's just not true.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: You have to do the work. He shows almost zero
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: interest in that.
• 15:53
  Speaker 13: I asked him if he if he had a screenplay,
• 15:56
  Speaker 13: show me your play, let me let me read it,
• 15:57
  Speaker 13: let me see.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: He hadn't even put together a send on He said
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: me nothing.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, does that change your opinion? Dr Bethany Marshall, what
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: you are learning from Rob's shooter? Now we're getting to
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: the very latest. We know where he's being held right now.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: We know what his lawyer is up to. We have
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: seen the very latest of videos and evidence. We have
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: evidence from the hotel where he snuck into and literally
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: blacked out the windows with sheets hiding out, where he
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: cleaned up, leaving behind blood in the shower, his parents'
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: blood before I get to that. This is a real
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: insight for me. Dtor Bethany Marshall. I usually don't get
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: to have this when I'm looking at a target. This
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: changes a lot for me, this insight into Nick Reiner's mind. Bethany, Yes, it.
• 16:52
  Speaker 10: Changes a lot for me too. I was fascinated by
• 16:55
  Speaker 10: what Rob was saying because what I'm hearing is true entitlement.
• 17:00
  Speaker 10: Entitlement is the expectation of reward without achievement. You want
• 17:05
  Speaker 10: to be at the top of Mount Everest, but you
• 17:07
  Speaker 10: don't want to work out high, get all the equipment,
• 17:09
  Speaker 10: try to get yourself to the top. You just want
• 17:11
  Speaker 10: to be magically helicopter there. And so people who have
• 17:16
  Speaker 10: severe addictions, like obviously Nick did, they have to work
• 17:20
  Speaker 10: really hard to surmount those addictions, right.
• 17:23
  Speaker 11: They have to go to rehab.
• 17:25
  Speaker 10: They have to surround themselves with a community that will
• 17:28
  Speaker 10: hold them responsible. But if you're drug addicted and entitled,
• 17:32
  Speaker 10: you are not going to put in the work to
• 17:35
  Speaker 10: gain sobriety. Now, if you're living in a guest house
• 17:39
  Speaker 10: with very rich, very talented, renowned parents, what you're going
• 17:45
  Speaker 10: to see is a sack of gold on the other
• 17:47
  Speaker 10: side of the driveway, and it's yours. It doesn't belong
• 17:50
  Speaker 10: to them anymore. Now it's yours. You should have it yourself,
• 17:54
  Speaker 10: even though maybe you haven't done anything to earn it, right,
• 17:57
  Speaker 10: Maybe you haven't gone to Conan Brian's Christmas party and
• 18:02
  Speaker 10: chatted people up and been kind and you know, taking pictures,
• 18:07
  Speaker 10: shake hands or anything like that. You just think that
• 18:09
  Speaker 10: it belongs to you. And so what I hear is
• 18:13
  Speaker 10: somebody who thinks he should be famous. He doesn't have
• 18:15
  Speaker 10: the talent, he doesn't want to put in the work.
• 18:18
  Speaker 10: He is building up this boiling resentment towards his parents
• 18:23
  Speaker 10: who did put in the work, and his grandfather who
• 18:26
  Speaker 10: did put in the work. And envy, that green eyed
• 18:30
  Speaker 10: monster envy. When you want something somebody else has and
• 18:33
  Speaker 10: you don't feel you can get it for yourself, it
• 18:35
  Speaker 10: causes the wish to destroy the object of your envy.
• 18:40
  Speaker 10: And I think That's what we're seeing right now, is
• 18:42
  Speaker 10: that he just he destroyed his parents, even though they
• 18:44
  Speaker 10: gave him every benefit, every opportunity. He thought he could
• 18:49
  Speaker 10: just skate in and you know, have lunch with our
• 18:54
  Speaker 10: not ey but nice you know person here, and that
• 18:57
  Speaker 10: all of a sudden he would be famous. It's the
• 18:59
  Speaker 10: offending pattern. I see it everywhere now as we're talking
• 19:02
  Speaker 10: about it tonight, as we go.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: To air tonight, we are learning the district attorney there
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: in LA has filed formal charges including illegal eagles if
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: you caught this special circumstances, which means the death penalty
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: is on the table.
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: These charges carry a maximum sentence of life in prison
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: without the possibility parole or the death penalty. No decision
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: at this point has been made with respect to the
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: death penalty. We have requested and currently Nick Reiner is
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: being held without bail. One of these special allegations is
• 19:41
  Speaker 6: that the murder was committed with a deadly weapon or
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: a knife. As to where and how the weapon will
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: be was located or will be located, that will actually
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: be evidence while presenting.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Court the murtyrs of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Reiner stabbed Dad multiple stab ones.
• 20:03
  Speaker 14: The injuries to the neck categorized as slash wings.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Both their throats slit arterial breed is like a water SPRINKLRK.
• 20:11
  Speaker 14: I can guarantee you, but this is a blood track.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: And in the last hours, Nick Reiner, suspect number one
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: in the murders of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Reiner appears in court looking grim, wearing shackles and a
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: suicide smock as he makes his very first court appearance
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: in the murder cases Sydney Summer. What happened?
• 20:38
  Speaker 12: What happened Nancy? Essentially nothing? Alan Jackson tells the judge
• 20:43
  Speaker 12: he's already spoken with the prosecution and they agree to
• 20:45
  Speaker 12: postpone Reiner's arrangement until the new year, so they'll be
• 20:49
  Speaker 12: back in court on January seventh. The judge asks Reiner
• 20:52
  Speaker 12: if he agrees to waive his right to a speedy arrangement,
• 20:55
  Speaker 12: and Reiner meekly responds, yes, your honor. The only thing
• 20:59
  Speaker 12: we really learned here is that Reiner is likely being
• 21:02
  Speaker 12: held on suicide watch, evidenced by that barely visible blue smock.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: So Sidney Sumner, they spoiled bratt, turn accused double killer,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: said very little in court. He appeared behind glass, he
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: was shackled. He did not enter a plea.
• 21:20
  Speaker 12: Why Mister Jackson answered that for his client, telling the
• 21:24
  Speaker 12: judge it's too early to enter a plea as he
• 21:27
  Speaker 12: had just a few minutes with his client before this
• 21:29
  Speaker 12: initial appearance. It seems the court is already on holiday mode,
• 21:34
  Speaker 12: as both prosecutors and the judge quickly agreed to postpone
• 21:37
  Speaker 12: until January seventh.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Nick Rhyner's arrayment originally scheduled for this week, but once
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: high profile lawyer Alan Jackson enters the scene, Jackson waives
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: the right to speedy arrangnment and it has been delayed.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Remember a defense attorney's best friend, Delay, delay, delay, and
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: so it has started.
• 22:10
  Speaker 12: Well, I don't think we can be too hard on Jackson, yet,
• 22:14
  Speaker 12: I'm not sure this delay can be categorized as unnecessary.
• 22:18
  Speaker 12: We saw Jackson go into the courthouse less than forty
• 22:21
  Speaker 12: five minutes before this arraignment, giving him just a few
• 22:24
  Speaker 12: minutes to meet with Reiner and the prosecutors. I can't
• 22:27
  Speaker 12: blame him for pushing back a plea to get a
• 22:29
  Speaker 12: chance to actually sit down with Reiner and get a
• 22:32
  Speaker 12: better understanding of his story.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: They arrest Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer, Reiner's son, goes
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: down in a public location, and eyewitnesses state that Nick Reiner,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: the defendant in this case, seemingly was acting like a
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: quote ordinary guy.
• 22:49
  Speaker 15: He was arrested in in a public area in the
• 22:53
  Speaker 15: Exposition Park area near the University of Southern California campus.
• 22:57
  Speaker 15: He was approached by the officers and he was arrested
• 22:59
  Speaker 15: without incident. There were no indications that there was no
• 23:03
  Speaker 15: indication that he was going to resist or anything like that.
• 23:06
  Speaker 15: He didn't flee or anything like that. He was taking
• 23:07
  Speaker 15: into custoy without issue, and he was transported to our
• 23:13
  Speaker 15: police are quorts.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Calo Brantley joining US investigative reporter dailymail dot com, Kela,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: what happened? Tell me about how the arrest went down.
• 23:21
  Speaker 8: Yeah, as you can see from those pictures and as
• 23:23
  Speaker 8: was described by the officer, Nick Reiner appeared very calm collected.
• 23:28
  Speaker 8: He didn't put up a fight, and you can see
• 23:30
  Speaker 8: in these pictures right here, you know, he put his
• 23:32
  Speaker 8: arms behind his back. He was not a risk, He
• 23:35
  Speaker 8: was not resisting arrest, and it appears that he was
• 23:38
  Speaker 8: in those same clothes that he was seen in that
• 23:40
  Speaker 8: earlier surveillance footage that you showed, So he didn't have
• 23:43
  Speaker 8: a change of clothes, and he was taken.
• 23:45
  Speaker 7: Away very easily.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Tell me about what was found at the hotel.
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: It was a horrific scene.
• 23:52
  Speaker 8: Now, what we've learned is that there was blood everywhere.
• 23:55
  Speaker 8: He's obviously changed his clothes. There was no blood on
• 23:58
  Speaker 8: him as you saw there. And what they haven't found yet,
• 24:02
  Speaker 8: or what they haven't disclosed that they've found yet, is
• 24:05
  Speaker 8: a murder weapon. So obviously everyone's assuming that there was
• 24:08
  Speaker 8: a knife that was used for those lacerations to his parents' throat,
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: but we haven't learned yet if that has been found
• 24:14
  Speaker 8: or if it was found in the hotel or at
• 24:16
  Speaker 8: the crime scene.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: You're right, Calebrantley, dailymail dot com. Take a listen to
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the LA district's attorney.
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: One of these special allegations is that the murder was
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: committed with a deadly weapon or a knife. As to
• 24:29
  Speaker 6: where and how the weapon will be was located or
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: will be located, that will actually be evidence. While presenting court,
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: you see.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: The local district attorney seemingly correcting himself, pausing there about
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: the weapon well, it will be located. It was located,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: That tells me that the weapon has been discarded. Much
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: like in the Brian Coburger case. We found the knife
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: hilt with the dependance DNA on it underneath one of
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: the murder victims, but we never found the actual knife.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Interesting joining me Scott Iiker, digital forensics expert, founding member
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: of the FBI Cellular Analysis serve A Team FBI twenty
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: two years and former homicide detective in Norfolk. Scott, thank
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: you for being with us. I want to find that weapon,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: and after much analysis, I think the best way to
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: find the weapon is to track Nick Reiner's sell phone.
• 25:39
  Speaker 16: How do we do it, Well, there are several different
• 25:42
  Speaker 16: ways to do that. You've got all the different applications
• 25:45
  Speaker 16: on the cell phone and the cellular connections that the
• 25:47
  Speaker 16: cell phone makes all the time when it's on, so
• 25:53
  Speaker 16: you can track the towers. You can get more detailed
• 25:56
  Speaker 16: information from distance from the towers, and you might be
• 25:59
  Speaker 16: able to get some information from the applications like Google,
• 26:02
  Speaker 16: of Facebook, Instagram. All those provide some locational information so
• 26:08
  Speaker 16: you can track him historically from the house to the
• 26:12
  Speaker 16: hotel and maybe or to where he was arrested, which
• 26:16
  Speaker 16: was about, you know, twelve thirteen miles away, so there's
• 26:20
  Speaker 16: a good amount of distance between those locations. So they
• 26:24
  Speaker 16: got their work cut out to try to figure it out.
• 26:26
  Speaker 16: But obviously they've got this video. They've gotten to a
• 26:30
  Speaker 16: point they're putting a timeline together and they're just going
• 26:33
  Speaker 16: to chronologically go through each little step to see where
• 26:37
  Speaker 16: they could figure out where he might have.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Put that night, that gas station video from our friends
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: at CBS. So I'm going to go out on a
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: limb here and go back to Phillip d Bay. He
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: is actually a veteran trial lawyer. He's a defense attorney,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: and he has been with the La County Public Defender's Office.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: What does that mean? They're on trial all the time,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: just like assistant district attorneys. There are thousands of cases
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to be handled, and you've got to go to trial
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: or else you get fired. Very simply put, Philip Dubay,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: this guy may have been in the movie Maylleu. He's
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: been around screenwriters, he's been around stars, he's been around
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: plenty of who Done It movies. But do you really
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: think that he thought too. He's only alleged to communities crimes.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: But would he have thought so deeply to think, Oh,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: let me turn my phone off before I get rid
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: of the murder weapon, let me put it on airplane mode.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. Remember one of our last suspects
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: that put the phone on airplane mode?
• 27:41
  Speaker 12: Oh?
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, that would be very more few whose phone went
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: on airplane mode around the time his wife was killed
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: or went missing. So, Philip Dbay, do you really think
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: he thought that deeply when he got rid of the weapon.
• 28:01
  Speaker 9: No, and I'll tell you why. I can tell by
• 28:03
  Speaker 9: the charges. The prosecution is not a legend that this
• 28:07
  Speaker 9: was a planned, premeditated murder. The only reason why he's
• 28:11
  Speaker 9: rising to the level of it being a special circumstance
• 28:14
  Speaker 9: is because there were multiple victims. They're not even a
• 28:17
  Speaker 9: legend that he did it for financial gain, which certainly
• 28:20
  Speaker 9: is the classic motive, particularly in the Hollywood. So what
• 28:24
  Speaker 9: you really have here is somebody who is out of
• 28:27
  Speaker 9: his mind, again likely due to psychosis, drugs, or maybe
• 28:31
  Speaker 9: even an untreated personality disorder, who flew off the handle
• 28:35
  Speaker 9: in a fit of rage for whatever reason, and fled
• 28:39
  Speaker 9: while still in that Either drug induce psychosis or some
• 28:44
  Speaker 9: type of mental health crisis. Does it excuse the behavior?
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know what, City Sumner, that was all my
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: fault because you never on the stand anyway, ask a
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: witness a question that you don't already know the answer to.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: So I ask him, do they about the weapon and
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: where it would have been discarded? And was the cell
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: phone turned on or off at the time the weapon
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: was discarded? And he goes back to his pretend drug
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: psychosis theory. Sidney Sumner, let's get some facts. Joining me
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner along with Kila Brandley, Daily Mail Sidney Sumner,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Crime Stories investigative reporter. What exactly are the charges against
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Nick Reiner? We just heard the district attorney speaking. What
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: are the charges?
• 29:28
  Speaker 11: Well, Nick Reiner is charged with two counts of murder
• 29:32
  Speaker 11: with the special circumstances of multiple murders because he killed
• 29:36
  Speaker 11: two people at the same time and that special circumstance
• 29:40
  Speaker 11: of using a deadly weapon.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Sidney, Aren't those murder charges first degree murder? Isn't that true?
• 29:50
  Speaker 11: You're right, Nancy, they are first degree murder.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: And in this jurisdiction of California, murder one is murder
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: with malice of forethought. That's what murder one is in California, Sidney.
• 30:06
  Speaker 11: Exactly, So there is some assumption that this was premeditated
• 30:11
  Speaker 11: in some degree.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: So when we hear Philip Dubay state that this is
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: not uh, these are not charges that include intent, that's
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: diametrically opposed to what the charges actually are. The charge
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: is murder one. Again out on a limb, Debay. Under
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: the law, there is no specific time required to prove
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: malice of forethought, or as we call it, premeditation. Premeditation
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: to commit an act can be formed in the blink
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: of an eye, the twinkling of the moment. Isn't that true? Debay?
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is, okay, So when you say.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: The charges do not include uh intent, that's actually not correct.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: This is a murder one charge.
• 30:59
  Speaker 10: Is it.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 31:00
  Speaker 9: No, I didn't say that it was not intentional. What
• 31:03
  Speaker 9: I'm saying is it wasn't planned in pre media this
• 31:06
  Speaker 9: you did?
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Didn't he say that? Control room? Didn't he just say
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: that they're saying, yes, you did, just say that.
• 31:13
  Speaker 9: Well, then I retract.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: We've got it on tape. Do I have to play
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: it back for you? For Pete's say, like the gas
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: station video.
• 31:20
  Speaker 9: Is absolutely an intentional act, but it was not planned
• 31:23
  Speaker 9: and premeditated.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: In other words, it was for the moment.
• 31:26
  Speaker 9: There's a difference.
• 31:26
  Speaker 11: Murder.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: One is premeditated murder. I feel like I'm screaming at
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: a lamppost. Yes it is murder. One is with malice
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: a forethought.
• 31:39
  Speaker 9: Malice of four thought standing alone does not necessarily mean premeditated.
• 31:43
  Speaker 9: It's a separate element.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, Okay, what do you think malice of
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: four thought is? Because I'm looking up black slaw dictionary
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: right now, go ahead. I can't wait to hear this.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: What do you think malice of four thought is?
• 31:54
  Speaker 9: Malis of four thought? Is intentional killing? That's the bottom line.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Either, yes, that's right.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 32:04
  Speaker 9: However, yes, that's right.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: It's intentional killing in you form intent, you have a plan.
• 32:13
  Speaker 9: Not necessarily absolutely not.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I'm wasting very valuable time arguing with you about what
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: you just admitted these charges and correct me if I'm wrong.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Killer Brantley h joining us from dallymail dot com on
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: this from the very very beginning, Kila Brantley, he Nick
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Reiner is charged with premeditated malice murder. That is what
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: first degree murder is. He is also charged with felony murder.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: That's an alternative count, which means you don't have intent.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: The state doesn't have to prove you had intent. But
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: a death occurred very simply during the commission of a felony.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: In this case, that felony would clearly be aggravated assault
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: with a NiFe. You don't have to have intent to
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: prove felony murder, just that a death occurred during the
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: commission of a felony. And a sentence for felony murder
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: can be life without parole or death penalty. Again, tell
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: me the charge is Keila Brantley.
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: It's two first degree murder charges.
• 33:26
  Speaker 8: There's the special circumstance and the special weapon charge right there,
• 33:31
  Speaker 8: and like you said, either life in prison without the
• 33:34
  Speaker 8: possibility of parole or the death penalty.
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: Nick Reiner will be then brought to court. He is
• 33:41
  Speaker 6: going through medical clearance, something that everybody who goes who
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: gets arrested and gets held in a Los Angeles County
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: Sheriff's Department jail goes through. Once he is medically cleared,
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: he will be brought to court to be arraigned on
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: these charges. At that point he will enter a plea
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: of guilty or not guilty.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Kila Brantley joining us deallymail dot com. Why was he
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: a no show in court?
• 34:04
  Speaker 8: According to Reiner's lawyer Alan Jackson, he wasn't medically cleared
• 34:09
  Speaker 8: to appear in court.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 34:10
  Speaker 8: We don't know exactly what that means, but as you
• 34:12
  Speaker 8: heard there, that's something that's very standard. Everyone needs to
• 34:15
  Speaker 8: get medically cleared. Now, this could be a psych evaluation,
• 34:20
  Speaker 8: it could be a regular medical evaluation.
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: We're still finding that out.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: It could be him refusing to put his clothes on.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: It could be him clinging to his bunk and refusing
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: to go. We don't know what it is. Dbay, what
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: is the reason that he was not quote medically cleared?
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Don't make something up? Okay, he missed court?
• 34:42
  Speaker 9: Why I'm telling you. When he got booked, they brought
• 34:46
  Speaker 9: him to the Twin Towers Correctional Facility and they put
• 34:49
  Speaker 9: him in the medical unit. My hunches and it's just
• 34:52
  Speaker 9: based on my years of doing this stuff that when
• 34:55
  Speaker 9: they arrested him, they felt he was a danger to
• 34:57
  Speaker 9: himself or to others still, so they put him under
• 35:00
  Speaker 9: what's my guess is they put him under what's called
• 35:02
  Speaker 9: a fifty one to fifty status where It's basically an
• 35:06
  Speaker 9: involuntary hold for a minimum of seventy two hours unless
• 35:09
  Speaker 9: and until he is cleared by a doctor, and that
• 35:12
  Speaker 9: includes going to court. If he is still psychotic, he
• 35:15
  Speaker 9: cannot be brought to court. So my hunch is that
• 35:19
  Speaker 9: they needed to medicate him to therapeutic levels, at least
• 35:22
  Speaker 9: in the short term, so he could be brought to
• 35:24
  Speaker 9: court for the arraignment. If they need to extend the hold,
• 35:28
  Speaker 9: they can do it, I believe up to two weeks.
• 35:30
  Speaker 9: Anything beyond that they have to go into court, the
• 35:33
  Speaker 9: Mental Health Court for an order extending the involuntary hold
• 35:37
  Speaker 9: pending arraignment.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: To Quila Brantley, have you heard anything at all about
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: him being in psychosis suicide watch? What do you know
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: if anything about that?
• 35:49
  Speaker 8: Not yet, we haven't heard anything about his current status.
• 35:52
  Speaker 8: But what we have found out from family friends of
• 35:55
  Speaker 8: the Reiners, people who knew him his entire life, is
• 35:58
  Speaker 8: that from an early age he appeared to be a
• 36:01
  Speaker 8: difficult child through tantrums. One of the sources is quoted
• 36:05
  Speaker 8: as saying he had anger in his eyes and at
• 36:08
  Speaker 8: some point his father, Rob Reiner, would have to restrain
• 36:11
  Speaker 8: him during these tantrums, and that those tantrums really progressed
• 36:15
  Speaker 8: into adulthood.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall. Just because Nick Reiner has been booked
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: into Twin Towers, that means nothing to me. Other people,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: other celebrities have been there Cosby, Bill Cosby, OJ Simpson,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Al Capone, Ted Bundy, Birdman of Alcatraz, Bernie Madoff who
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: worked the world's largest Ponzi scheme. He certainly wasn't crazy.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: He was brilliant, evil, but brilliant, and many many others.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: How Debey is extrapolating because he went to Twin Towers
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: must mean he's on a psychiatric hold. That doesn't make sense.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: What do you think is happening, Doctor Bethany?
• 36:58
  Speaker 10: Another tantrum, another tantrum out of an abundance of caution.
• 37:02
  Speaker 10: They're going to make sure he doesn't want to harden
• 37:04
  Speaker 10: himself or other people. But he's not a risk there.
• 37:07
  Speaker 10: What I'm going to say is when you diagnose people,
• 37:10
  Speaker 10: you can diagnose them on five axes. Access one is
• 37:14
  Speaker 10: mental disorders. Access to is personality disorders. They're treating him
• 37:19
  Speaker 10: like he has a mental disorder, but this, Nancy, this
• 37:22
  Speaker 10: is personality driven. He had tantrums from the time he
• 37:26
  Speaker 10: was very little. According to one report, when he was
• 37:29
  Speaker 10: eleven years old, he had such a huge tantrum that
• 37:35
  Speaker 10: his father had to put him in a big bear
• 37:37
  Speaker 10: hug and hold him to help him regulate down into
• 37:43
  Speaker 10: a normal state. Could it be that.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Nick Bethany is Bethany? Can I tell you something pleased
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: before you say one more word before we hear any more?
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Made up theories from Philip Dubay, and he wins a
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: lot of cases on arguments just like this, the way
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Paris Hilton, who has since become quite the hero on
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: various fronts and now is a married mom. Paris Hilton
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: was put in the Twin Towers after violating probation from
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: a dui. She was put there because she was quote claustrophobic,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: all right, So all of Dubay spinning out his theories
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: that's not supported by the facts we know tonight. He
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: just happened to be booked into Twin Towers. It's in
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: that jurisdiction, So that really means nothing to me probatively
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: at this juncture. But I do know he's hired a
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: very high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson.
• 38:44
  Speaker 14: We'll be back day to day.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: The bailiff has indicated that the Sheriff's.
• 38:47
  Speaker 13: Department will take it on a day, day by day basis,
• 38:50
  Speaker 13: and so hopefully we'll be kid tomorrow that you can.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Get a pear from our friends at Fox News Digital
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner. Who is paying for him?
• 39:00
  Speaker 11: That is the million dollar question. I don't think his
• 39:04
  Speaker 11: siblings are footing the bill, and I don't know what
• 39:07
  Speaker 11: kind of funds he has access to that don't belong
• 39:10
  Speaker 11: to his parents. So it's very unclear where Alan Jackson
• 39:14
  Speaker 11: is going to get his paycheck from.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Two special guests joining us now Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: chief medical examiner of Terrant County. That's fort Worth. He
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: at TCU, and he's the star of a hit view podcast,
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Mayhem and the Morgue. But don't be filled by his
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: joviality on his podcast. He has conducted thousands and thousands
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: of autopsies, Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Doctor Crowns. There's a big difference in stab wounds and
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: the slicing of his parents' throats. What would the stab
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: wounds to the body, not the slicing of the throats
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: indicate to you.
• 40:00
  Speaker 14: So stab wound is a wound that is actually long
• 40:05
  Speaker 14: longer than it or the wound itself is shorter than
• 40:07
  Speaker 14: it is deep. So as the knife enters into the skin,
• 40:11
  Speaker 14: it leaves a wound that is very small, but the
• 40:15
  Speaker 14: actual wound course is very deep. The wounds they're describing
• 40:19
  Speaker 14: on the rhiners is a slashing wound or in sized
• 40:23
  Speaker 14: wound that is longer than it is deep. So it's
• 40:26
  Speaker 14: kind of a shallow wound that hits multiple organs or
• 40:30
  Speaker 14: multiple vessels, but doesn't go very deep into the tissues.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Well, let me understand something, doctor Kendal Crowns. Even though
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: the slicing mess you just made doesn't have to be deep,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: in fact, it can be quite shallow. That would likely
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: be the mortal wound. And why.
• 40:51
  Speaker 14: So the vessels are the structures in your neck prouded
• 40:55
  Speaker 14: a jugular vein, you're trachea. They're all very close to
• 40:59
  Speaker 14: the surface, like millimeters or less than a quarter inch
• 41:03
  Speaker 14: below your skin. You have these vital structures. You hit
• 41:06
  Speaker 14: the crotted argery, it's going to start spurting blood out,
• 41:10
  Speaker 14: and it's going to be lots of blood coming out
• 41:12
  Speaker 14: in a very short period of time. You'll be dead
• 41:14
  Speaker 14: in minutes. If you just hit the jugular vein, it'll
• 41:17
  Speaker 14: start oozing heavily, and again you'll be dead in minutes.
• 41:20
  Speaker 14: You cut the cut the trachia, you're going to have
• 41:23
  Speaker 14: trouble breathing. And when you cut the trachia, you'll also
• 41:27
  Speaker 14: cut blood vessels. You'll get blood into your trachea. So
• 41:30
  Speaker 14: when you're dying, you're sucking in blood and you're basically
• 41:33
  Speaker 14: drowning in your own blood as you're bleeding to death.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Doctor Kennel Crowns, we know that when their daughter Roamy
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: arrived and called authorities. The fire department arrived and they
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: stated that the rhiners were already in full rigor. That
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: tells me at approximate time of death. Could you explain so?
• 41:54
  Speaker 14: Rigor mortis is the stiffening of the joints that occurs
• 41:57
  Speaker 14: after you die. And what happened is your muscles continue
• 42:02
  Speaker 14: to use these the things they use fro metabolism even
• 42:07
  Speaker 14: after you die, and when they run out of these substances,
• 42:10
  Speaker 14: they go into full contraction. And this can start occurring
• 42:14
  Speaker 14: in about a half hour to an hour after death
• 42:17
  Speaker 14: and gets to a maximum about twelve hours, so it
• 42:19
  Speaker 14: starts in the small muscles first and then goes to
• 42:22
  Speaker 14: the larger muscles throughout your body. So if you see
• 42:25
  Speaker 14: full rigor, it could be about twelve hours, but it
• 42:28
  Speaker 14: can be affected by activity, drug use, how much blood
• 42:32
  Speaker 14: loss you've had, a number of other factors, how warm
• 42:35
  Speaker 14: it is in the house, So using it as an
• 42:38
  Speaker 14: exact time frame for the post wornum interval is difficult.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
• 42:54
  Speaker 12: Round.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Isn't it true that after a period of hours when
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: someone is in rigor, the rigor breaks and their the
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: deceased limbs become limber again.
• 43:06
  Speaker 14: Yes, after the twelve hour interval. After the twelve hour
• 43:10
  Speaker 14: interval of its setting up, you'll stay in full rigor
• 43:13
  Speaker 14: for about ten to twelve hours, and after that it
• 43:16
  Speaker 14: starts to subside and disappears over another twelve hours unless
• 43:22
  Speaker 14: someone moves it and breaks the rigor up manually, and
• 43:25
  Speaker 14: then it goes away completely. So you have about a
• 43:28
  Speaker 14: twenty four hour window of full rigor before it disappears.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, is it twelve hours or twenty four hours?
• 43:34
  Speaker 14: So twelve hours is set up ten to twelve hours
• 43:37
  Speaker 14: after it sets up, where it stays in place, and
• 43:40
  Speaker 14: then after that it begins to subside over another twelve hours.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, Dodger Kendall Crowns, what type of defensive wounds would
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: you have expected to be found on the shell and
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Rob Reiner's bodies. We've heard nothing about defensive wounds such
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: as blocking with the hands, the arms, even curling up
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: in a fatal position and getting defensive wounds on the
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: knees or the legs. I've heard nothing about that. I've
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: only heard about stabs we believe to the torso.
• 44:11
  Speaker 14: So since they were in bed and may have been
• 44:13
  Speaker 14: in sleep, they could have not even seen this coming
• 44:17
  Speaker 14: and not had an opportunity to react. Since there's two individuals,
• 44:21
  Speaker 14: at least one individual probably was awoken by the other
• 44:24
  Speaker 14: individual being killed and may have had a chance to
• 44:27
  Speaker 14: defend themselves. They usually defensive wounds is what you see
• 44:30
  Speaker 14: as the individual trying to grab the knife and trying
• 44:33
  Speaker 14: not to be stabbed, and you'll see slices or in
• 44:36
  Speaker 14: sized wounds across the fingers, across the palm of the hand,
• 44:39
  Speaker 14: and then you'll see also in size wounds or stab
• 44:42
  Speaker 14: wounds of the forearms as they're trying to block the
• 44:46
  Speaker 14: block the knife of themselves. And again, like you said,
• 44:50
  Speaker 14: you may pull up your legs even and you'll see
• 44:52
  Speaker 14: stab wounds or in size wounds on the legs and feet.
• 44:55
  Speaker 10: Do we all just.
• 44:56
  Speaker 16: Forget that Rob Rider was on this list?
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: Or what now he's dead?
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: What the zany conspiracy theories have already started? Sidney Summer,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: a Crime Stories investigative reporter, I don't recall Rob Reiner's
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: name being on the Epstein list, by the way. That's
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: from at Hunter Montross on TikTok.
• 45:14
  Speaker 11: Said, Well, the list that that user is standing in
• 45:18
  Speaker 11: front of is not real. That is a faith list
• 45:21
  Speaker 11: that has been circulating on social media, and Rob Reiner's
• 45:25
  Speaker 11: name is on that faith list and circled. But there's
• 45:28
  Speaker 11: no actual evidence supporting that he had any types to
• 45:31
  Speaker 11: Jeffrey Epstein.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: So sorry, Hunter, your zany conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Rob Reiner was not on the Epstein list for Pete's sake,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: but there's no lack of theories. Maybe Philip Dubay can
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: use these as the defense listen.
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: Rob had been working on a series called The Spy
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: and the Asset. The series was going to be about
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: Putin and Donald Trump their upbringings, different ways they intersected,
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: and in Rob's words, what happens to democracy as a
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: result of this convergence, that relationship of Trump and Putin
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: being explored and extrapolated and navigated is going to bring
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: a whole lot of corruption up to the surface.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Right that? From at Studio A eight on TikTok to
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Scott Iiker joining us, who was a founding member of
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team, Scott, I think I'd
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: rather rely not on zany conspiracy theories. I will leave
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: that to our veterman trial lawyer, Phillip Dbay. Scott, I'd
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: rather deal with hard facts. How difficult is it going
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: to be for me to trace Nick Reiner's cell phone,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: where he went that night, any credit card or atm
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: use and what was it for? I need to track
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: not only his phone, but where there was a delay.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Even in the Alex Murdog case where Murdoch murdered his
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: wife Maggie and son Paul as he left the scene,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I got from his well. Prosecutor Waters got from his
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: nav system where he slowed down and the nav system
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: showed Scott Iiker him lowering the passenger side window electronically
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: that's where he threw out Maggie's cell phone. Then he
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: let the window up, sped up and went and hit
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: out at his mother's house, who had dementia and really
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: could not say what time he got there. That said,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: that's what I'm looking for. You know, this guy didn't
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: think deeply enough to turn his phone on airplane mode
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: or turn it off when he discarded of the knife.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: So how am I going to find the knife?
• 47:43
  Speaker 16: It sure does look like a crime of passion in
• 47:48
  Speaker 16: those instances. A lot of times the suspects do not
• 47:52
  Speaker 16: turn off the phones, don't think ahead like that. Once
• 47:56
  Speaker 16: you get the identified, identifying information about the suspect, phone records,
• 48:04
  Speaker 16: vehicle records, credit cards. Is really interesting how you can
• 48:09
  Speaker 16: put a timeline together and kind of piece together all
• 48:13
  Speaker 16: the things that happened before and after the crime.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Hey, Scott Iiker, you and I have both marveled at
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: the video montage put together by l E law enforcement
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: in the Photusdulo's case. They got him every which way
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: but loose on video from ring doorbell cams to stop
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: like cam. This is after his wife, Jennifer, the mother
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: of his five children, was murdered. I'm thinking that this
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: neighborhood is blanketed in ring doorbell and stop like cam
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: you name it. I bet they can follow him almost
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: everywhere he went. And if he took an uber or
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: share a right share, there may be video in there
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: that can help me track him and find the knife.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: That said, here's another zany theory.
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: Listen up, do bay Nick Reiner, who is allegedly the
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: murderer in this case, the son of Robin Michelle, who
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: killed both of his parents. Allegedly, his name did not
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: appear on Google trends really at all. Here's it in
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: the United States, the United States, Nick Reiner. Nothing nothing.
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: This is showing starting yesterday fourteenth, So that was the
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: United States. This is what happens when you look up
• 49:24
  Speaker 5: the exact same query and only changed the geolocation to
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: be tel Aviv instead of the United States. Nick Reiner,
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: tel Aviv nothing nothing nothing. Oh, look at that two
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: bumps a couple months ago, last month. Interesting, all of
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: a sudden bumps, I can from.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: S Studio A eight on TikTok so dobay. I guess
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: she's arguing you might want to take notes to put
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: this in with your drugs. Like hoastist theory that he
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: what is actually a spy. She's mentioning tel Aviv. I
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: don't know what that has to do with. Maybe he's
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: an avatar, maybe he's a good Maybe he doesn't even exist.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: Then who's that sitting in the twin towers?
• 50:05
  Speaker 9: I gotta tell you, I think it's genius because if
• 50:07
  Speaker 9: we're all honest, it forms the basis of the not
• 50:10
  Speaker 9: guilty by reason of insanity defense. If he truly thinks
• 50:14
  Speaker 9: that he's going to be beamed up by the Starship
• 50:16
  Speaker 9: Enterprise and he's got all kinds of wild imagining.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Nobody said that. You said that, What else would it?
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: He just didn't have a Google profile, he had no
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: social media profile. The fact that we haven't, and now
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: you're claiming you've got another psychosis defense because he's not
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: a social media.
• 50:33
  Speaker 9: No, not because of that.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, good, I'm happy you said that. I couldn't be
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: more happy. I hope you used that at trial, hey,
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: just to throw this into your crazy pot to Steve Listen.
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump got on True Social and said this, which
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: is horrific and tonally and timeline wise to me, does
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: seem like a confession.
• 50:56
  Speaker 7: He's listed motive right there.
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: Means doesn't even need to be explained. And the funny
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: thing is he got on camera today and doubled down
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: on it again, specifically the part with Russia. He was like,
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: he's trying to look into this and dig all this
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: stuff up, and as you know, it's always the opposite
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: where like there's nothing weird there.
• 51:14
  Speaker 7: It's just so blatantly obvious.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: At Studio eight on TikTok so dtor Bethany Marshall, I
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: don't think that's going to help Alan Jackson at this
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: juncture that Trump confess to a motive.
• 51:32
  Speaker 10: No, it is not. I mean, conspiracy theorists take something
• 51:36
  Speaker 10: that is sort of benign. I hate to call domestic
• 51:40
  Speaker 10: combicide benign, but it does happen, and they try to
• 51:44
  Speaker 10: spin a whole theory out of it, to try to
• 51:47
  Speaker 10: make it a part of a predictable universe.
• 51:49
  Speaker 11: But it's not.
• 51:49
  Speaker 10: You know, people love to form patterns, and so conspiracy
• 51:54
  Speaker 10: theorists will try to form a pattern out of an
• 51:58
  Speaker 10: outlier like domestic homicide, and that's all this is that
• 52:02
  Speaker 10: they're just trying to form a pattern, Nancy.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: The investigation is ongoing right now. We are waiting for
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: Nick Reiner to appear in court. If you know anything
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: or think you know anything about the case, whether you
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: observed Reiner, observed him in the gas station, observed him
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: in a ride chair, anything, please help The LAPD dial
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven repeat
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven. Tonight
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: we remember an American hero investigator, Lewis Roller, Oklahoma District
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Attorney's Office, killed in the line of duty after thirty
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: five years, leaving behind a wife turned widow in two children.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: American hero investigator Lewis Roller. Nancy Gray signing off good
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: by friend,