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Mega Edition: Madison Mogen And The DNA Under Her Finger Nails (10/7/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. In
0:03
Speaker 1: this episode we're going to spin back up to Moscow
0:05
Speaker 1: and we're going to check in on some of the
0:07
Speaker 1: new details that have just been released by the court
0:11
Speaker 1: and some of these new revelations are pretty interesting especially
0:14
Speaker 1: considering the ongoing debate surrounding the IgG information and DNA.
0:20
Speaker 1: Now there's a lot going on here that we still
0:23
Speaker 1: don't know. According to the court documents the results from
0:27
Speaker 1: these DNA samples that were found from the skin underneath
0:30
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan's fingernails, came back inconclusive. But ask yourself, why
0:36
Speaker 1: is Brian Kohlberger's team so gung-ho to keep this DNA out?
0:41
Speaker 1: And unless you're one of these yahoos who thinks that
0:43
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger is getting railroaded, the answer is relatively obvious,
0:48
Speaker 1: and I've said it from the very beginning. Whenever you
0:50
Speaker 1: see people playing a game of loopholes and technicalities as
0:54
Speaker 1: their strategy as defense, you know that they're cooked, or
0:57
Speaker 1: at the very least, they're up against it. And that's
1:00
Speaker 1: what we see here. Everything's a loophole. Everything's a technicality.
1:04
Speaker 1: There is never anything concrete coming from Brian Koberger. And
1:08
Speaker 1: to the morons in the back, yeah, I understand. It's
1:10
Speaker 1: not up to Brian Koberger to provide evidence, yada, yada, yada.
1:14
Speaker 1: But the second you get in front of that jury,
1:15
Speaker 1: you better have something to back up the bullshit you're
1:18
Speaker 1: trying to pitch. Because if you don't, well, you're going
1:21
Speaker 1: to find yourself in front of a firing squad. So
1:24
Speaker 1: you can be as contrarian as you want, sitting on
1:26
Speaker 1: the internet, making pretend that your buddy Brian Koberger over
1:29
Speaker 1: here is innocent, but the evidence is piled up against him.
1:34
Speaker 1: And unless there's something that really takes us for a
1:36
Speaker 1: loop here, I really don't see how Brian Koberger thinks
1:39
Speaker 1: he's going to get off. Now they're trying the autism
1:42
Speaker 1: angle to try and get rid of the death penalty.
1:45
Speaker 1: I don't know how successful that's going to be either.
1:47
Speaker 1: And really, when you get down to it, there is
1:49
Speaker 1: just so much evidence that's been piled up against Brian
1:52
Speaker 1: Koberger that it's difficult for his team to come up
1:54
Speaker 1: with a strategy to defend him. Today's article is from
1:57
Speaker 1: the Daily Mail. Headline, Idaho murder trial rocked by curveball
2:01
Speaker 1: DNA evidence found under victim's fingernails. This article was authored
2:06
Speaker 1: by Rachel Sharp. A bombshell new court filing in the
2:10
Speaker 1: case against Brian Koberger has revealed that DNA from three
2:13
Speaker 1: individuals was found under the fingernails of murder victim Madison Mogan.
2:18
Speaker 1: And I don't think you need to be a member
2:19
Speaker 1: of the BAU here to figure out what's going on.
2:21
Speaker 1: According to the report, there were three people in that bedroom, right?
2:24
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan. Kelly Gonsalves, and the killer. So it certainly
2:29
Speaker 1: makes sense why Madison Mogan would have three different DNA
2:33
Speaker 1: profiles under her fingernails. However, that is still just circumstantial
2:37
Speaker 1: because the tests that they ran on this DNA came
2:40
Speaker 1: back inconclusive. So while it doesn't look great for Brian Koberger,
2:44
Speaker 1: it's not something that's going to slam the door on
2:46
Speaker 1: him either. But anybody attempting to act like this isn't
2:49
Speaker 1: a big deal for Brian Koberger is crazy. It most
2:52
Speaker 1: certainly is. In a court document filed on February 24th
2:55
Speaker 1: and until Tuesday, the accused quadruple killer's defense team reveals
2:59
Speaker 1: that testing of Mogan's left fingernail clippings and unearthed DNA
3:03
Speaker 1: evidence from three unknown individuals. Parts of the document have
3:07
Speaker 1: been redacted, meaning the findings of the testing remain somewhat unclear.
3:12
Speaker 1: So we'll have to wait and see, right? Like everything
3:14
Speaker 1: else in this case, there is just a shield of
3:17
Speaker 1: anonymity hanging over it. So it's very difficult to discern
3:21
Speaker 1: what's what. But I think we can get a good
3:24
Speaker 1: idea here by taking a look at the preliminary report
3:28
Speaker 1: and then seeing how both sides react to it. And
3:31
Speaker 1: with Brian Kohlberger's team attempting to keep it out of evidence,
3:35
Speaker 1: that tells me a whole lot. Now, it's not saying
3:38
Speaker 1: that he's guilty for sure, but they're not big fans
3:42
Speaker 1: of this evidence being admitted. And that's certainly not shocking
3:46
Speaker 1: considering the impact of evidence like this if there's a
3:48
Speaker 1: way to figure out who that DNA belongs to. Yet
3:53
Speaker 1: the defense indicates that the comparison to Kohlberger's DNA was inconclusive,
3:57
Speaker 1: that he could neither be confirmed or eliminated as the source. However,
4:02
Speaker 1: this marks the first time it has emerged that there
4:04
Speaker 1: could be additional DNA evidence from the scene beyond the
4:08
Speaker 1: leather knife sheath potentially tying Kohlberger to the grisly crime.
4:12
Speaker 1: And I would be absolutely shocked if we don't hear
4:15
Speaker 1: more about other evidence that was found at the scene
4:18
Speaker 1: of the crime. And I wouldn't be shocked to hear
4:21
Speaker 1: that Brian Koberger's phone might have connected to somebody's Wi-Fi
4:25
Speaker 1: while he was out there. Very possible. So I haven't
4:27
Speaker 1: ruled anything out. Everything's still on the table. And we'll
4:31
Speaker 1: see where everything goes. The 30-year-old criminology student is charged
4:37
Speaker 1: with the murders of Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kernodle, and
4:40
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin in the close-knit college town of Moscow, Idaho,
4:44
Speaker 1: back on November 13th, 2022. The four University of Idaho
4:48
Speaker 1: students were all found brutally stabbed to death inside the
4:51
Speaker 1: off-campus student home that the three young women shared with
4:55
Speaker 1: two other roommates. Kohlberger, who was a PhD student just
4:59
Speaker 1: over the border at Washington State University at the time,
5:02
Speaker 1: was arrested around six weeks later at his parents' home
5:05
Speaker 1: in Albrightville, Pennsylvania. And whenever you're looking at a complex
5:09
Speaker 1: story like this one, you can't just look at one
5:11
Speaker 1: thing and say, oh, well, that's it. It's the totality
5:14
Speaker 1: of everything we know. So Brian Kohlberger has been trying
5:18
Speaker 1: to hide his DNA from the very beginning, right? Putting
5:22
Speaker 1: it in his neighbor's trash bags, etc. The trash cans
5:25
Speaker 1: from the neighbors. You know, the whole thing. Wearing rubber gloves.
5:29
Speaker 1: And that's because he understands that the DNA evidence is
5:33
Speaker 1: what's going to end up sinking him. And his team
5:35
Speaker 1: certainly understands it as well. So when you look at
5:38
Speaker 1: everything and you add it up, I don't know how
5:40
Speaker 1: anyone can come to the conclusion that Brian Kohlberger isn't
5:44
Speaker 1: up against it. A critical part of the case against
5:47
Speaker 1: the suspect comes from a brown leather knife sheath found
5:50
Speaker 1: close to Mogan's body at the scene. That is the
5:53
Speaker 1: exact bit of evidence that's going to send Brian Koberger upriver.
5:59
Speaker 1: Not a critical part. That is the most critical part
6:01
Speaker 1: of evidence that we have. Without that sheath, this falls apart. Now,
6:06
Speaker 1: there's a lot of circumstantial evidence, right? But that's not enough.
6:10
Speaker 1: Circumstantial evidence isn't getting you over the finish line. So
6:14
Speaker 1: you better have some more than just a little bit
6:17
Speaker 1: of digital evidence to go on, you better have some DNA.
6:21
Speaker 1: And my friends, that's exactly what they have here. So
6:25
Speaker 1: anybody trying to dog walk you or gaslight you and
6:29
Speaker 1: tell you that Brian Kohlberger is some kind of innocent man,
6:32
Speaker 1: at least by the evidence that we've seen, my guess
6:35
Speaker 1: is the grift is on and they're just looking to
6:38
Speaker 1: get some traffic for whatever kind of project they're working on.
6:42
Speaker 1: Kohlberger faces the death penalty if convicted at his trial
6:45
Speaker 1: in August. In the new court filing, the defense is
6:49
Speaker 1: asking the judge to limit testimony about the DNA analysis
6:52
Speaker 1: of Mogan's fingernail scrapings, claiming it would violate Kohlberger's right
6:56
Speaker 1: to a fair trial. It's always a right to a
6:58
Speaker 1: fair trial for Brian Kohlberger. What about the right to
7:01
Speaker 1: a fair life for his victim's families? I mean, there's
7:06
Speaker 1: people out there that still run their fat, stupid-ass mouths,
7:09
Speaker 1: or I should say fingers, I guess, on exes, about
7:12
Speaker 1: the Gonsalves family. Imagine looking at the Gonsalves family and
7:16
Speaker 1: saying to yourself, well, these are great people to pick on.
7:19
Speaker 1: Why don't we just pile on the Gonsalves family as
7:22
Speaker 1: we defend Brian Koberger? What a bunch of morons. Look,
7:27
Speaker 1: it's one thing to be skeptical about the case that
7:29
Speaker 1: the government's bringing. It's a whole different thing to be
7:31
Speaker 1: brutal and a jerk off when it comes to the
7:34
Speaker 1: family members of the victims. But in the age of
7:37
Speaker 1: rage bait, that's the kind of shit that sells. During
7:42
Speaker 1: grand jury proceedings, the court heard testimony that a three-person
7:46
Speaker 1: mixture had been found on the 21-year-old's fingernail clippings. The
7:50
Speaker 1: filing reveals, The data from the sample was redacted as
7:54
Speaker 1: to Mr. Kohlberger. The document reads, The filing details that
7:58
Speaker 1: the witness testified about the meaning of the term inconclusive.
8:10
Speaker 1: So yeah, we don't know who this DNA belongs to.
8:13
Speaker 1: There is no doubt about it. And honestly, I don't
8:16
Speaker 1: know if this is going to end up being anything
8:19
Speaker 1: come trial time. If it's inconclusive and you can't directly
8:24
Speaker 1: match it to Kohlberger, you can't add it as evidence, right?
8:29
Speaker 1: So we'll have to see where this all goes and
8:31
Speaker 1: we'll have to see what the judge ends up deciding.
8:34
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's defense is arguing that this testimony used misleading language.
8:38
Speaker 1: LR's likelihood ratios are different from traditional statistics that courts
8:43
Speaker 1: and juries are used to seeing and hearing. The LR
8:47
Speaker 1: is comparison of hypotheses. It is not statement identity or
8:51
Speaker 1: probability of identity. It simply asks the question, given the data,
8:55
Speaker 1: which hypothesis tested is more likely? Statistically, it was assumed
9:00
Speaker 1: that Mogan was one of the individuals. Two hypotheses were
9:04
Speaker 1: then tested. that the three people included Mogan, Gonsalves, and
9:08
Speaker 1: one unknown unrelated person, or Mogan, and two unrelated persons.
9:13
Speaker 1: Koberger's defense argues that at least four other unnamed individuals
9:17
Speaker 1: were also tested, and that they, like Koberger, also came
9:20
Speaker 1: back inconclusive. All of these individuals sit in the same
9:24
Speaker 1: shoes as Mr. Koberger, namely that the LR is exclusionary,
9:28
Speaker 1: but fails in the range of inclusive, the filing states.
9:32
Speaker 1: Focusing on Kohlberger's DNA being inconclusive would mislead the jury
9:36
Speaker 1: at his trial, the defense argues. Expanding beyond the language
9:40
Speaker 1: of the report would prejudice Mr. Kohlberger in that it
9:43
Speaker 1: might allow the jury to infer that the inconclusive data
9:47
Speaker 1: would mean that he might be included, the defense writes. Well,
9:50
Speaker 1: that's what it means. I mean, maybe not in the courtroom,
9:53
Speaker 1: but to the rest of us, that's exactly what it means.
9:57
Speaker 1: The legal team also argues that additional testing since Kohlberger
10:00
Speaker 1: out by the defense has now excluded Kohlberger as the
10:03
Speaker 1: source of the DNA. The new details about the DNA
10:06
Speaker 1: evidence was revealed in a flurry of new court documents
10:09
Speaker 1: filed by both the defense and prosecution as Kohlberger's high-profile
10:13
Speaker 1: death penalty trial looms. In a series of other motions,
10:17
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's attorneys... made a string of requests to block the
10:20
Speaker 1: words murder, bushy eyebrows, psychopath, and sociopath from being used
10:25
Speaker 1: at his trial. Well, I don't know about bushy eyebrows,
10:28
Speaker 1: but the rest of it, I could see that. According
10:31
Speaker 1: to the defense, using the terms murder, murderer, murdered, murder weapon,
10:35
Speaker 1: and similar words would be unfairly prejudicial to the accused killer. Yeah,
10:39
Speaker 1: sorry about that. We're going to be using those words.
10:42
Speaker 1: That's what happened, and the person responsible for this is
10:44
Speaker 1: exactly that. Whether the killings at issue are murder or
10:50
Speaker 1: by an alternate suspect or someone still unknown is the
10:53
Speaker 1: ultimate issue, his defense argues. To label Mr. Kohlberger a murderer,
10:57
Speaker 1: the alleged weapon consistent with an empty sheath as a
11:00
Speaker 1: murder weapon, or to assert that any of the four
11:03
Speaker 1: decedents was murdered by Mr. Kohlberger denies his right to
11:07
Speaker 1: a fair trial and the right to be presumed innocent,
11:09
Speaker 1: the defense argues. A separate filing also asked the judge
11:13
Speaker 1: to ban the terms psychopath and sociopath. calling these unequivocally
11:17
Speaker 1: unfairly prejudicial. The defense is also asking the judge to
11:21
Speaker 1: block any evidence referencing bushy eyebrows or from surviving roommate
11:26
Speaker 1: Dylan Mortensen from using the words to identify Kohlberger. Yeah,
11:30
Speaker 1: I don't believe that's going to fly. I think that's
11:32
Speaker 1: going to end up being shot right down. Two other roommates,
11:35
Speaker 1: Mortensen and Bethany Funk, lived with Mogan, Gonsalves, and Kernodle
11:40
Speaker 1: in the three-story house at 1122 King Road. And not
11:43
Speaker 1: to nitpick, but Kaylee wasn't living there at the time.
11:46
Speaker 1: She was just there visiting to show Madison her car.
11:50
Speaker 1: They were inside the home at the time of the murders,
11:52
Speaker 1: but survived. Mortensen, whose bedroom was on the second floor,
11:57
Speaker 1: came face to face with the masked man in the
11:59
Speaker 1: immediate aftermath of the murders, according to court documents. She
12:02
Speaker 1: told investigators that she had been woken by noises in
12:05
Speaker 1: the home at around 4 a.m. that morning and had
12:08
Speaker 1: heard a voice say, there is someone here. She also
12:11
Speaker 1: heard what sounded like whimpering coming from Colonel's room. and
12:15
Speaker 1: a man's voice saying, it's okay, I'm going to help you.
12:19
Speaker 1: Mortensen told investigators that she had opened her door, peeked
12:23
Speaker 1: outside three times. The third time, she said she saw
12:26
Speaker 1: a man with bushy eyebrows and dressed in black walk
12:28
Speaker 1: past her door and head towards the sliding back doors
12:31
Speaker 1: of the home. Soon after seeing the intruder, Mortensen went
12:35
Speaker 1: downstairs to Funk's room, and the two roommates fell asleep there,
12:39
Speaker 1: the new court documents show. So look, there's a lot
12:41
Speaker 1: of questions about the roommates and their behavior during and
12:45
Speaker 1: after this event. But we just don't have any evidence
12:48
Speaker 1: of anything one way or the other, right? So until
12:51
Speaker 1: we have something concrete, the speculation's crazy. We don't know
12:55
Speaker 1: what was going on. And like I speculated in the
12:58
Speaker 1: very beginning, these kids were probably hammered out of their
13:01
Speaker 1: minds drunk and God knows on what else. And then
13:05
Speaker 1: we hear in the court documents, that's exactly what happened.
13:09
Speaker 1: She was drunk. and she was a bit out of it.
13:12
Speaker 1: When you're in college and you're partying on the weekend, well,
13:15
Speaker 1: this is what goes down. Around eight hours later, a
13:18
Speaker 1: 911 call was made from Funk's cell phone as the
13:21
Speaker 1: bloodbath inside the home was discovered. According to Koberger's defense,
13:26
Speaker 1: the description provided by DM is unreliable and should be
13:29
Speaker 1: excluded from the trial. Although she has never identified Mr.
13:33
Speaker 1: Koberger's testimony by DM from the witness stand describing bushy eyebrows,
13:38
Speaker 1: while Mr. Koberger sits as the accused at trial, will
13:41
Speaker 1: be damning as they're pointing to him and saying he's
13:43
Speaker 1: the man that did this, the defense argues. Yeah, that's
13:47
Speaker 1: not going to work either. They're not going to get
13:49
Speaker 1: that bushy eyebrows thrown out, sorry. It is not going
13:52
Speaker 1: to end well for them. The defense claims there are
13:55
Speaker 1: some inconsistencies in Mortensen's description of the masked intruder. The
14:00
Speaker 1: legal team points to artwork seen on the students' bedroom walls,
14:03
Speaker 1: many of which she had drawn, including many pictures of
14:06
Speaker 1: eyes with prominent eyebrows. Some of the eyebrows are heavy, puffy,
14:11
Speaker 1: or perhaps subjectively bushy, the defense states. Yo, they are
14:14
Speaker 1: grasping for straws. Anybody who's telling you any different about
14:18
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger and his team right now is absolutely BSing you.
14:22
Speaker 1: They are grasping for straws like it's nobody's business. Mortensen
14:28
Speaker 1: also told investigators that she had a lot of lucid
14:31
Speaker 1: dreams of being kidnapped or chased and that on the
14:34
Speaker 1: morning of November 13th, 2022, she did not fully understand
14:38
Speaker 1: what was a dream or not, the defense writes. In
14:42
Speaker 1: one police interview, she allegedly said she thought that the
14:44
Speaker 1: person she saw was a fireman. So my speculation is
14:48
Speaker 1: that this is all going to be admitted and then
14:50
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's team is going to have a chance to
14:52
Speaker 1: cross-examine her. So they'll get their chance to punch holes
14:55
Speaker 1: in the narrative come trial time. As the only known
14:59
Speaker 1: living eyewitness, Mortensen could be a key witness for the
15:02
Speaker 1: prosecution and a key witness that the defense will seek
15:05
Speaker 1: to discredit. The defense is also fighting to get the
15:08
Speaker 1: death penalty off the table in the case with a
15:11
Speaker 1: new filing making bombshell claims that the accused killer has autism.
15:16
Speaker 1: In the motion to strike the death penalty, RE Autism
15:19
Speaker 1: Spectrum Disorder, which was finally unsealed Tuesday, Koberger's defense says
15:23
Speaker 1: he has autism diagnosis, which exposes him to the unacceptable
15:27
Speaker 1: risk that a jury will convict him of murder and
15:30
Speaker 1: sentence him to death. Due to his autism, Kohlberger has
15:33
Speaker 1: little insight into his own behaviors and emotions, often rocks
15:36
Speaker 1: his body back and forth when listening, has limited facial expressions,
15:40
Speaker 1: and his expressions are sometimes incongruent with what's happening around him.
15:45
Speaker 1: The defense states, Oh boy, this is a reach and
15:48
Speaker 1: a half. Now look, if the guy does have autism,
15:51
Speaker 1: you have to take it into account, right? You have
15:53
Speaker 1: to take a look and see what's going on. But
15:55
Speaker 1: is that going to be enough? I don't think so.
15:58
Speaker 1: We have four dead kids in their home, and this
16:01
Speaker 1: is the man that the government's telling us did it.
16:04
Speaker 1: So I think you're going to need to come more
16:06
Speaker 1: correct than trying to pitch us some shit that he
16:09
Speaker 1: has autism. A juror seeing the defendant engage in any
16:14
Speaker 1: one of these behaviors while sitting at counsel table during
16:17
Speaker 1: a murder trial would perceive the defendant as strange, out
16:20
Speaker 1: of control, and even disrespectful of such a solemn proceeding.
16:24
Speaker 1: The defense writes, The latest push to get the death
16:27
Speaker 1: penalty struck from the case comes amid startling changes to
16:30
Speaker 1: Idaho's death penalty procedure. The state legislature is considering a
16:34
Speaker 1: bill that would make the firing squad the principal method
16:37
Speaker 1: of execution in death row cases. And we know that
16:41
Speaker 1: they reinstituted the firing squad in Idaho recently, and it's
16:45
Speaker 1: certainly something that's on the agenda. So Brian Koberger might
16:49
Speaker 1: end up facing a firing squad if he is convicted.
16:55
Speaker 1: Gonsalves' family has long publicly called for the death penalty,
16:58
Speaker 1: and her father is now pushing for Kohlberger to face
17:00
Speaker 1: the firing squad if convicted of the shocking murders of
17:03
Speaker 1: his daughter and her friends. There's no reason to have
17:06
Speaker 1: capital punishment if this isn't the case for it, Steve
17:09
Speaker 1: Gonsalves told News Nation last month, and I agree with that.
17:13
Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan of capital punishment usually, but
17:16
Speaker 1: in cases like this, yep, that's what it's there for.
17:18
Speaker 1: The people of Idaho, they okayed it. Not for me
17:22
Speaker 1: who lives in Nevada to tell people in Idaho how
17:24
Speaker 1: to live. So, let's get on with the people's business.
17:27
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's attorneys have already fought unsuccessfully to remove the death
17:31
Speaker 1: penalty from the case, making various arguments that it's unconstitutional.
17:36
Speaker 1: In a string of court documents filed last year, they
17:39
Speaker 1: argued that the methods of execution available to inmates in Idaho,
17:42
Speaker 1: firing squad, and lethal injection, as well as forcing inmates
17:46
Speaker 1: to wait for years on death row, would amount to
17:48
Speaker 1: cruel and unusual punishment. Yeah, but what happened to those
17:52
Speaker 1: kids in that house? That was cool, huh? That was alright.
17:54
Speaker 1: That wasn't cruel. That wasn't unusual. But in November, Judge
17:58
Speaker 1: Stephen Hippler struck down the defense bid and gave prosecutors
18:01
Speaker 1: the green light to pursue capital punishment. Kohlberger stayed silent
18:05
Speaker 1: at his arraignment, leading the judge to enter a not
18:07
Speaker 1: guilty plea on his behalf. He so far offered up
18:10
Speaker 1: a vague alibi for the night of the murders, claiming
18:13
Speaker 1: he was driving around at night looking at the stars.
18:16
Speaker 1: No witnesses can corroborate where he was, his attorney and
18:19
Speaker 1: Taylor admitted, in a court filing. As well as the
18:22
Speaker 1: DNA found on the sheath, prosecutors say Kohlberger was also
18:26
Speaker 1: tied to the murders through his white Elantra, matching the
18:29
Speaker 1: car seen leaving the crime scene at the time of
18:32
Speaker 1: the murders, and cell phone records placing him in the
18:35
Speaker 1: vicinity of the home. Kohlberger is next due in court
18:39
Speaker 1: in April. So things are moving, folks. And we're going
18:43
Speaker 1: to keep an eye on things like usual up here.
18:45
Speaker 1: And we're going to dive into some of these new
18:46
Speaker 1: court documents over the weekend as well. Because it's very
18:50
Speaker 1: important that we stay on top of that. It's the
18:52
Speaker 1: only way to really get any insight and a look
18:54
Speaker 1: behind the scenes at what's going on. So we'll continue
18:58
Speaker 1: to do so. But until then, that's going to do
19:01
Speaker 1: it for this one. If you'd like to contact me,
19:03
Speaker 1: you can do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I
19:10
Speaker 1: at protonmail.com. Or if you prefer, you can find me
19:12
Speaker 1: on X at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. All of the links
19:19
Speaker 1: that go with this episode can be found in the
19:22
Speaker 1: description box. What's up everyone and welcome back to the program.
19:26
Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to head back up to
19:28
Speaker 1: Moscow and we're going to talk a little bit more
19:31
Speaker 1: about the IGG retrieval and about the tactics used by
19:35
Speaker 1: the FBI. Now, this has been a big point of
19:38
Speaker 1: contention for Brian Kohlberger and his team. They've been saying
19:42
Speaker 1: from the very beginning that Brian Kohlberger's rights have been
19:45
Speaker 1: trampled upon and that his constitutional rights have been thrown
19:49
Speaker 1: out the windows. But the truth is, while the tactics
19:52
Speaker 1: used by the FBI do fall into a bit of
19:54
Speaker 1: a gray area, they did not do anything illegal and
19:58
Speaker 1: certainly haven't stepped on this man's constitutional rights when it
20:02
Speaker 1: comes to the IGG information. Now, according to Kohlberger's team,
20:07
Speaker 1: they're going to say that The sheath was planted by
20:09
Speaker 1: another suspect, somebody else. Who that other person is? Well,
20:14
Speaker 1: your guess is as good as mine. Maybe it's a chupacabra.
20:18
Speaker 1: Maybe it's Bigfoot. Maybe it's Nosferatu. It's anybody but Brian Kohlberger,
20:23
Speaker 1: at least according to his team. Today's article is from
20:26
Speaker 1: Fox News and the headline. Brian Kohlberger case. FBI's DNA
20:31
Speaker 1: tactics didn't violate law, but they raise another public safety concern.
20:37
Speaker 1: This article was authored by Michael Ruiz. With great investigative power,
20:42
Speaker 1: genetic genealogists have a great responsibility to conduct themselves ethically
20:47
Speaker 1: to preserve a system that is entirely reliant on public
20:50
Speaker 1: participation to solve violent crimes, according to C.C. Moore, a
20:54
Speaker 1: pioneer of the industry and chief genetic genealogist at Parabon Nanolabs. Like,
21:01
Speaker 1: I've never understood why anybody would send their genetics to
21:03
Speaker 1: one of these companies. You don't know if it's safe
21:07
Speaker 1: You don't know what they're going to do with it.
21:09
Speaker 1: I mean, the way they sell our information on the internet,
21:11
Speaker 1: you're going to be comfortable sending your DNA to one
21:13
Speaker 1: of these companies? I mean, God bless, if that's something
21:17
Speaker 1: you want to do, great. Me, personally? Never going to happen.
21:20
Speaker 1: The use of investigative genetic genealogy to solve violent crimes
21:24
Speaker 1: has overwhelming public support, she said, but privacy concerns are
21:28
Speaker 1: still an issue in cases like the University of Idaho
21:32
Speaker 1: student murder suspect Brian Kohlberger's where the FBI access to
21:36
Speaker 1: databases that purport to exclude law enforcement from their services.
21:41
Speaker 1: As a result, unwitting users could be submitting clues that
21:45
Speaker 1: lead detectives to their own relatives without knowing it. I
21:49
Speaker 1: don't think that's a good enough argument, honestly. And the
21:52
Speaker 1: second that you upload your information to one of these databases, well,
21:56
Speaker 1: what's so different than sending a phone call out and
21:59
Speaker 1: it getting captured by Apple and then the authorities using
22:02
Speaker 1: that information against you? What's the difference? If you don't
22:07
Speaker 1: want your information out there, don't put it out there.
22:09
Speaker 1: Pretty simple in my opinion. Transcripts unsealed of a closed-door
22:13
Speaker 1: hearing on the defense attempt to have DNA evidence thrown
22:17
Speaker 1: out of court revealed that the FBI violated a Department
22:21
Speaker 1: of Justice interim policy in terms of the service of
22:24
Speaker 1: the two private database agents turned to after the smaller ones,
22:28
Speaker 1: Family Tree DNA and GED Match Pro, didn't pan out.
22:33
Speaker 1: So that was the whole entire genesis of the argument
22:36
Speaker 1: for Kohlberger, right? There was an interim policy in place
22:40
Speaker 1: and you didn't follow the guidelines of the companies. Well,
22:43
Speaker 1: I hate to break the news to Mr. Kohlberger, but
22:46
Speaker 1: the FBI, they pretty much do what they want. And
22:49
Speaker 1: if there's a way that they can skirt around the
22:51
Speaker 1: law or a procedure or a guideline, they're going to
22:54
Speaker 1: do it. You have to remember that they have armies
22:57
Speaker 1: of lawyers that are going to show up and say
22:59
Speaker 1: that you can do this, you can do that, you
23:01
Speaker 1: can't do this. Well, this is gray area and we'll
23:04
Speaker 1: win here. And that's exactly what happens. It's not just
23:07
Speaker 1: like some FBI agent is sitting around on his own.
23:11
Speaker 1: There's a whole bureaucracy here and a lot of people
23:13
Speaker 1: come in to make these decisions. And if we want
23:16
Speaker 1: to codify this into law that the police or FBI
23:19
Speaker 1: can't access these databases, then we need to make it
23:22
Speaker 1: a law. But just turning it into an interim policy,
23:26
Speaker 1: that's not going to cut it. Our policy is to
23:29
Speaker 1: stick with just those databases because of the concern that
23:32
Speaker 1: the public could turn against this tool, Moore said, explaining
23:36
Speaker 1: why her team at the private lab avoids doing what
23:38
Speaker 1: the FBI did. We didn't want to just solve one
23:41
Speaker 1: case and lose out on being able to use this
23:43
Speaker 1: for potentially hundreds of thousands of millions of cases in
23:47
Speaker 1: the future. And that's certainly a legitimate concern. No doubt
23:50
Speaker 1: about it. But when we're talking about a situation like this,
23:54
Speaker 1: where we have the information in the database and that
23:57
Speaker 1: information is found by the investigators, I don't really think
24:01
Speaker 1: there's any kind of argument that could be made. Now,
24:04
Speaker 1: you can make the loopholes and technicalities argument all you want.
24:08
Speaker 1: But as we've seen, the court is not very receptive
24:11
Speaker 1: to it. You have to have something behind it, right?
24:14
Speaker 1: Some kind of legal precedent, something to back it up.
24:17
Speaker 1: And if you don't have that, chances are it's going
24:19
Speaker 1: to get slapped down in court like we've seen here.
24:22
Speaker 1: And I think that any kind of move here by
24:25
Speaker 1: Koberger's team to try and say that the sheath was
24:28
Speaker 1: planted is going to be met with the same kind
24:30
Speaker 1: of force. You're going to have to prove that. Now,
24:34
Speaker 1: of course, the burden of proof is on the state.
24:37
Speaker 1: There is zero doubt. But if you come in making
24:40
Speaker 1: all these crazy claims as the defendant, you're going to
24:43
Speaker 1: have to have something to back that up. You can't
24:45
Speaker 1: just say whatever you want, right? I mean, you can,
24:48
Speaker 1: but the jury is going to expect some kind of
24:50
Speaker 1: concrete corroboration, something to back up what you're saying. Because
24:55
Speaker 1: as of right now, what it looks like to everybody
24:57
Speaker 1: out here, but a few people, is that that sheath
25:00
Speaker 1: has Brian Kohlberger's DNA on it, and it was under
25:03
Speaker 1: the body of a dead girl. So until you can
25:06
Speaker 1: explain that, well, good luck. And I don't think trying
25:10
Speaker 1: to say that it was planted is an explanation that
25:13
Speaker 1: anybody's really going to believe. The FBI declined to comment
25:16
Speaker 1: and instead pointed to Judge Stephen Hippler's February 17th order
25:20
Speaker 1: in which he wrote that investigators had not violated Kohlberger's
25:24
Speaker 1: constitutional rights or broken any laws when they uploaded samples
25:28
Speaker 1: to MyHeritage and GEDmatch without the pro. And now, of course,
25:32
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's only hope is on appeal. This is settled. There's
25:37
Speaker 1: no appealing this with Judge Hippler. This is what it
25:40
Speaker 1: is now. And his only hope as far as, you know,
25:43
Speaker 1: getting this stuff thrown out eventually is on appeal. But
25:47
Speaker 1: considering what we've seen previously and considering how many judges
25:50
Speaker 1: have already had a look and all of them have
25:52
Speaker 1: come to the same conclusion. So I don't think even
25:55
Speaker 1: on appeal, Brian Koberger is going to have any success here.
25:59
Speaker 1: This is not the first case where this has been
26:01
Speaker 1: brought up, more told Fox News Digital. It's not the
26:03
Speaker 1: first case where a judge has weighed in on this
26:06
Speaker 1: question and made a similar ruling because legality and company's
26:10
Speaker 1: own terms of service are not the same thing. And
26:13
Speaker 1: so that is how the FBI is able to legally
26:15
Speaker 1: use a non-consented database. And the irony is not lost
26:19
Speaker 1: on me. The man who is using loopholes and technicalities
26:22
Speaker 1: as a strategy... is having that same exact strategy turned
26:26
Speaker 1: on him when it comes to this situation with the
26:29
Speaker 1: FBI going into the database. They're using loopholes, they're using technicalities,
26:34
Speaker 1: and they're using gray area. I believe over in the UK,
26:37
Speaker 1: the saying is, turnabout is fair play. Four University of
26:42
Speaker 1: Idaho students were stabbed to death in their home on
26:45
Speaker 1: November 13th, 2022. Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kernodle, and
26:50
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin. Under Mogan's body, police found a knife sheath
26:55
Speaker 1: that helped crack the case. It had a DNA sample
26:57
Speaker 1: on it. The sample did not match anyone in the
27:00
Speaker 1: FBI's National Criminal Database, nor did it match anyone in
27:04
Speaker 1: two small genealogy databases that share their material with law enforcement.
27:09
Speaker 1: And whenever you commit a crime, you get added to
27:11
Speaker 1: something called CODIS, and that is a database where the
27:15
Speaker 1: police can find out, you know, who you are, what
27:17
Speaker 1: you've done before, etc., etc., Well, Brian Koberger had never
27:20
Speaker 1: committed a crime that we know about previously, so he
27:24
Speaker 1: wasn't part of CODIS. So when they put his DNA
27:27
Speaker 1: in there, they didn't find anything. And that's why they
27:30
Speaker 1: moved on to the other procedures that we saw here.
27:35
Speaker 1: So the FBI checked two other publicly accessible databases that
27:39
Speaker 1: ultimately led them to Koberger, who was first identified as
27:42
Speaker 1: a person of interest on December 19th, 2022, and arrested
27:44
Speaker 1: on December 30th, 2022. If investigators hadn't turned to IGG,
27:53
Speaker 1: a suspect may have never been apprehended. They'd spent weeks
27:56
Speaker 1: with no solid leads, although Kohlberger was studying for a
27:59
Speaker 1: PhD in criminology at Washington State University, just 10 miles
28:03
Speaker 1: from the crime scene. He had driven home to his
28:06
Speaker 1: parents in Pennsylvania before he was arrested. And if you
28:10
Speaker 1: remember the frantic search for Kohlberger right after this, or
28:13
Speaker 1: for the alleged killer, it was insane. You had people
28:16
Speaker 1: talking all kinds of crazy stuff. Meanwhile, this dude was what, 2,000
28:22
Speaker 1: miles away in Pennsylvania? Remember how scared everybody was up
28:26
Speaker 1: in Moscow? People pulling their kids out of school, people
28:30
Speaker 1: getting karate training, people buying guns, people walking around with mace,
28:34
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff. The more violent crimes I've been
28:37
Speaker 1: working and seen, the incredibly negative impact it has on
28:40
Speaker 1: surviving victims, their families, and society as a whole, I
28:44
Speaker 1: can really see both sides now, a lot more than
28:47
Speaker 1: I did when I first started working with law enforcement,
28:50
Speaker 1: Moore said. There's certainly a part of me that is
28:53
Speaker 1: supportive of doing everything we can within the law to
28:55
Speaker 1: stop these people in their tracks. And that's what I
28:58
Speaker 1: was saying before. Look, if you don't want this to happen,
29:01
Speaker 1: codify a law. Put something on the books that says
29:04
Speaker 1: you cannot do this. But until then, this is going
29:07
Speaker 1: to be a resource that's being used by the authorities
29:10
Speaker 1: to try and help solve these crimes. In essence, law
29:14
Speaker 1: enforcement is allowed to go anywhere the public can, Moore said,
29:18
Speaker 1: even though the individual database terms of service may say
29:21
Speaker 1: that detectives need to stay out, they aren't violating the
29:24
Speaker 1: law by going in anyway. The concern among critics, however,
29:29
Speaker 1: is that law enforcement could risk dissuading members of the
29:32
Speaker 1: public from participating in genetic genealogy testing over concerns that
29:36
Speaker 1: their data could be taken behind their backs, despite companies
29:39
Speaker 1: claiming it it's protected. Many users want to trace their
29:43
Speaker 1: family trees, not necessarily help solve crimes, and I get that,
29:47
Speaker 1: but unfortunately, you have to be very, very careful. What
29:50
Speaker 1: we want and what we get are usually two very
29:53
Speaker 1: different things, as I am sure that most of you
29:55
Speaker 1: out there are well aware. The two largest databases, 23andMe
30:02
Speaker 1: and AncestryDNA, don't face this issue because they don't allow
30:06
Speaker 1: copied files of DNA samples to be uploaded. They require
30:10
Speaker 1: them to come directly from a source, a highly accurate sample,
30:13
Speaker 1: from a cheek swab. That kind of sample typically doesn't
30:17
Speaker 1: exist in the early stages of a case where police
30:19
Speaker 1: turn to IgG, usually with something collected from a crime scene.
30:24
Speaker 1: So far, the method, continue to show strong public support,
30:27
Speaker 1: Moore said, Most people out there want us to use
30:30
Speaker 1: this tool to stop violent criminals, she told Fox News Digital.
30:33
Speaker 1: I believe it was 91% of the people that we
30:36
Speaker 1: surveyed who said that they want it used for this purpose,
30:39
Speaker 1: and I was surprised how many people even wanted it
30:41
Speaker 1: used for lesser crimes. Look, I'm all for it. Until
30:44
Speaker 1: they have some kind of law on the books, then
30:47
Speaker 1: people should be able to access this, including law enforcement.
30:50
Speaker 1: And remember when this all first started, I told you
30:52
Speaker 1: that it was a go-nowhere issue for Kohlberger. This is
30:55
Speaker 1: settled law. We've seen this already. There is precedent for
30:58
Speaker 1: them to use this technology to go after people that
31:01
Speaker 1: they're investigating. And while Ann Taylor certainly gets a nod
31:04
Speaker 1: of the cap for trying, it was never going to
31:06
Speaker 1: go anywhere. And I think that until they codify something,
31:10
Speaker 1: you're going to see a lot more of this. And
31:12
Speaker 1: as far as we're concerned up here in Moscow... You're
31:15
Speaker 1: going to be hearing a whole lot more about the
31:16
Speaker 1: IgG stuff as we move forward, make no mistake, because
31:20
Speaker 1: pretty much the whole entire thing hinges on this IgG
31:23
Speaker 1: information and this DNA. So, like usual, we'll continue to
31:27
Speaker 1: keep an eye on things, and as more information becomes available,
31:31
Speaker 1: we'll get it added to the catalog. If you'd like
31:34
Speaker 1: to contact me, you can do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com.
31:38
Speaker 1: That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. Or if you prefer, you can
31:44
Speaker 1: find me on X at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. All of
31:50
Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
31:53
Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back
31:56
Speaker 1: to the program. Brian Kohlberger and his legal team have
32:00
Speaker 1: brought on a new defense witness to help try and
32:03
Speaker 1: sure up their narrative as they continue to look towards
32:07
Speaker 1: the trial. And the person that they brought in is
32:11
Speaker 1: somebody that has been around for quite some time and
32:14
Speaker 1: somebody who's worked on some pretty high profile cases. So
32:19
Speaker 1: today we have an article from the Daily Mail and
32:22
Speaker 1: we're going to dive into this article and discuss the
32:25
Speaker 1: new hire made by Brian Kohlberger. and his legal team. Headline,
32:29
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger hires OJ Simpson defense witness for Idaho murderous trial.
32:35
Speaker 1: This article was authored by Rachel Bowman. Quadruple homicide suspect
32:40
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger has hired a forensic pathologist who worked on
32:44
Speaker 1: the OJ Simpson case to testify in his defense at
32:48
Speaker 1: the murder trial of four University of Idaho students. Koberger, 29,
32:53
Speaker 1: is accused of the brutal slayings of Ethan Chapin, Zanna Kernodle,
32:57
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan, and Kaylee Gonsalves in their off-campus house in
33:01
Speaker 1: November of 2023. And I'll tell you what, if you're
33:05
Speaker 1: indigent and you're going to commit a crime, it looks
33:07
Speaker 1: like Idaho is the place to do it. Look at
33:10
Speaker 1: the resources that this guy's getting as far as state-sponsored resources,
33:14
Speaker 1: bringing in all kinds of experts, all kinds of witnesses. Meanwhile,
33:19
Speaker 1: how about Joe Blow, who is sitting in an Idaho
33:22
Speaker 1: jail right now, Who isn't involved in a case of
33:25
Speaker 1: this kind of notoriety? Is the public defender's office in
33:28
Speaker 1: Idaho giving them the same kind of defense? I highly
33:32
Speaker 1: doubt that they are. How would they have the resources
33:34
Speaker 1: for that? But they have the resources for this, obviously.
33:38
Speaker 1: And look, I get it. It's a death penalty case.
33:41
Speaker 1: There's a lot on the line. But at what point
33:44
Speaker 1: does it become burdensome on the taxpayer? Like if you
33:48
Speaker 1: want to have all these expert witnesses and all the
33:50
Speaker 1: rest of it, you usually have to pay for it.
33:53
Speaker 1: But in this case, they're bringing all kinds of like
33:55
Speaker 1: all-star expert witnesses in with Brian Koberger, and it's pretty
33:59
Speaker 1: wild to see. The one good thing, though, is later
34:02
Speaker 1: on down the road, I don't want to hear anything
34:04
Speaker 1: about an appeal if Brian Koberger ends up being found guilty.
34:09
Speaker 1: He's been given every benefit of the doubt here. He's
34:13
Speaker 1: been given all the best experts that you could possibly imagine,
34:16
Speaker 1: has the best representation. that he could hope for, so
34:19
Speaker 1: hopefully that mitigates any nonsense later on down the road
34:23
Speaker 1: if and when there is a conviction. Earlier this month,
34:25
Speaker 1: the judge scheduled his trial to start on July 30th, 2025,
34:30
Speaker 1: after the state Supreme Court agreed to move it 300
34:33
Speaker 1: miles from the small town of Moscow, Idaho, where the
34:36
Speaker 1: ruthless killings occurred, to the state capital of Boise. And
34:40
Speaker 1: not to beat this dead horse, but I think the
34:42
Speaker 1: whole entire move to Boise was ridiculous, pointless, waste of money,
34:46
Speaker 1: and it's not going to accomplish anything, We're not talking about,
34:50
Speaker 1: you know, the 1920s when people in Boise don't know
34:53
Speaker 1: what's going on down in Moscow. Everybody's connected with the Internet.
34:58
Speaker 1: Everybody's connected with technology. Everybody in the state of Idaho
35:01
Speaker 1: knows who Brian Kohlberger is and what the allegations against
35:04
Speaker 1: him are. And if you think that you're going to
35:07
Speaker 1: move it to Boise and Ada County and that's going
35:10
Speaker 1: to change, well, you're crazy. It's not. But what it does, again,
35:14
Speaker 1: is it gives them one less lifeline later on down
35:17
Speaker 1: the road when it comes to the appeal. So they're
35:19
Speaker 1: putting all their eggs in this basket. And if this
35:22
Speaker 1: defense doesn't work out, I don't see Brian Kohlberger even
35:26
Speaker 1: coming close to getting an appeal or being able to
35:29
Speaker 1: have another jury or judge look at his case. Because
35:33
Speaker 1: it seems to me that the state is bending over
35:35
Speaker 1: backwards at this point to make sure that Brian Kohlberger
35:38
Speaker 1: is fairly represented. And guess what? They should be. We're
35:41
Speaker 1: talking about a death penalty case. I do wonder what
35:44
Speaker 1: those limits are, though. At what point does the state say, look,
35:47
Speaker 1: we've spent enough money. And this is the defense that
35:50
Speaker 1: you're going to get. Or are they going to continue
35:53
Speaker 1: to acquiesce and give Brian Kohlberger as much rope as
35:57
Speaker 1: he needs? Recent court filings show his defense team have
36:01
Speaker 1: brought on renowned forensic expert Barbara C. Wolfe to testify
36:04
Speaker 1: remotely at a hearing scheduled for November 7th. Wolfe is
36:09
Speaker 1: currently the medical examiner of Florida's 5th and 24th districts,
36:13
Speaker 1: which includes Citrus, Hernando Lake, Marion, Seminole, and Sumter Counties.
36:19
Speaker 1: She's worked on several high-profile cases. Notably, she worked on O.J.
36:23
Speaker 1: Simpson's defense team while he was on trial for the
36:26
Speaker 1: murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman in 1995.
36:31
Speaker 1: At the time, Wolfe worked as the director of anatomic
36:34
Speaker 1: pathology at Albany Medical College and examined at least one
36:38
Speaker 1: of the gloves from the infamous case reported Albany Magic.
36:43
Speaker 1: Her team criticized the doctor who conducted the autopsies and
36:47
Speaker 1: suggested the evidence points to a later time of death
36:50
Speaker 1: that aligned with Simpson's alibi. Well, good luck doing that here.
36:54
Speaker 1: I think the evidence is pretty clear, as far as
36:56
Speaker 1: we know anyway, that the DNA that was found on
36:59
Speaker 1: the sheath is Brian Koberger's. And all the other nonsense
37:02
Speaker 1: they want to talk about is fine and well. But
37:05
Speaker 1: until they explain that, and how the DNA got on
37:08
Speaker 1: that sheath, and then the sheath got under Madison Mogan's body...
37:11
Speaker 1: they're going to have a very, very difficult time convincing
37:14
Speaker 1: anybody that Brian Kohlberger is innocent. And that certainly includes
37:18
Speaker 1: a jury. Simpson was cleared of the charges after the
37:22
Speaker 1: high-profile trial that captivated the world. According to her biography,
37:27
Speaker 1: Wolf was also involved in the 1991 exhumation of civil
37:31
Speaker 1: rights leader Medgar Evers. In 1995, she was involved in
37:36
Speaker 1: the exhumation of the bodies of five children from one
37:39
Speaker 1: family in New York, who were presumed to have died
37:42
Speaker 1: of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome between 1965 and 1971. Pretty
37:48
Speaker 1: amazing what technology can do these days, huh? You can
37:52
Speaker 1: exhume bodies from all those years ago, and then forensically
37:56
Speaker 1: go through it and figure out what's what? Truly amazing
38:00
Speaker 1: in my opinion. And it's led to a lot of
38:02
Speaker 1: these cold cases being cracked. And of course, it also
38:05
Speaker 1: helps with these newer cases that are being investigated. You know,
38:10
Speaker 1: police run into a dead end and before you know it,
38:12
Speaker 1: genealogy and stuff like that's being used. And before you
38:15
Speaker 1: know it, not only do they have a profile of
38:18
Speaker 1: the unsub, they have a name and they have a
38:22
Speaker 1: location of the person. So when you're committing crimes these days,
38:26
Speaker 1: there's a whole different set of rules, if you will,
38:29
Speaker 1: that you have to follow as a criminal because the
38:32
Speaker 1: technology has come so far. Her role in the re-evaluation
38:37
Speaker 1: led to the conviction of the mother for the suffocation
38:40
Speaker 1: of the infants. Well, good for the mother. Any animal
38:43
Speaker 1: who is capable of killing their own children deserves to
38:47
Speaker 1: be buried underneath the jail or, preferably, tossed from a
38:51
Speaker 1: helicopter into a live volcano. The state objected to Wolfe's testimony,
38:55
Speaker 1: claiming it will not help the trier of fact to
38:58
Speaker 1: understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue,
39:01
Speaker 1: according to court filings. However, on October 18th, Administrative District
39:06
Speaker 1: Judge Stephen Hippler granted the defense motion to have Wolfe testify. Again, Kohlberger,
39:12
Speaker 1: given the benefit of the doubt here, given a little
39:14
Speaker 1: bit of extra rope. So, let's see what he does
39:17
Speaker 1: with it. I am very, very interested to see what
39:19
Speaker 1: sort of defense his team's going to put forward come
39:22
Speaker 1: trial time. Because as of now, they really don't have
39:26
Speaker 1: a defense as far as I'm concerned. Lame-ass alibi. the DNA,
39:32
Speaker 1: the pings, and I'm guessing there's going to be more,
39:34
Speaker 1: but obviously the most detrimental evidence against Brian Kohlberger is
39:40
Speaker 1: the DNA evidence that was found. on the knife sheath
39:43
Speaker 1: under Madison's body. That's going to be the clincher and
39:46
Speaker 1: the cincher that ends up convicting Brian Kohlberger, in my opinion.
39:50
Speaker 1: There's a lot of other circumstantial evidence, obviously, that if
39:53
Speaker 1: you tie it all together, looks really bad for a dude,
39:56
Speaker 1: but it's going to be that DNA evidence that really
39:59
Speaker 1: seals the deal. Kohlberger's defense attorneys argued to have the
40:02
Speaker 1: case moved to Boise due to the extensive media coverage
40:05
Speaker 1: and strong emotions in the university town. They argued this
40:09
Speaker 1: would make it difficult to find an impartial jury as
40:12
Speaker 1: prosecutors seek the death penalty. Prosecutors, though, claim they could
40:16
Speaker 1: find impartial jurors in Moscow by bringing in a large
40:19
Speaker 1: pool to choose from. They also said the move inconveniences
40:23
Speaker 1: the family members of victims, attorneys, and witnesses. Well, it
40:27
Speaker 1: certainly seems to me that the victims' families aren't even
40:30
Speaker 1: being thought about here. And I know that justice is
40:33
Speaker 1: the most important thing, right? Of course, that's the most
40:36
Speaker 1: important thing. Making sure that everything is on the up
40:39
Speaker 1: and up Brian Koberger's constitutional rights have to be respected,
40:44
Speaker 1: but we have to make sure that the families are
40:47
Speaker 1: receiving the support that they should be receiving. Is there
40:50
Speaker 1: any liaison from the state or from the prosecutor's office
40:54
Speaker 1: dealing with them, talking with them? According to the Gonsalves family,
40:58
Speaker 1: that's not occurring. So the families feel like they're being,
41:02
Speaker 1: you know, victimized all over again. They have to move
41:05
Speaker 1: to a different place to go and see this trial.
41:08
Speaker 1: go and, you know, spend money to go up there
41:10
Speaker 1: and stay there, get a hotel room, the whole thing.
41:13
Speaker 1: That should never be the case. And in my opinion,
41:16
Speaker 1: we could have alleviated all of that by just bringing
41:19
Speaker 1: a jury in from outside and having the trial in Moscow,
41:23
Speaker 1: the same way they're doing down in Delphi. But instead,
41:26
Speaker 1: these brain donors up here in Idaho decided that they're
41:29
Speaker 1: going to move the trial to Boise, which is just
41:32
Speaker 1: a ridiculous move, in my opinion, and more of a
41:35
Speaker 1: waste of resources. They said that Brian Koberger's DNA was
41:39
Speaker 1: found on a K-Bar knife sheath found at the victim's
41:42
Speaker 1: off-campus home, though no murder weapon has ever been found.
41:46
Speaker 1: You don't need the murder weapon to convict somebody. If
41:49
Speaker 1: his DNA is on the knife sheath, and he has
41:51
Speaker 1: no business being in that house, and those girls end
41:53
Speaker 1: up murdered, and you have all the other circumstantial evidence
41:56
Speaker 1: that you have collected, that's what we call a strong case.
42:00
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what the state has here if all
42:04
Speaker 1: of this is on the up and up. Now, of course,
42:06
Speaker 1: there's always the caveat that something might be amiss, that
42:10
Speaker 1: there could be some prosecutorial misconduct that's been missed, whatever.
42:14
Speaker 1: But as far as the evidence that's been presented to
42:17
Speaker 1: the public as of now, I really don't know how
42:19
Speaker 1: you dispute that knife sheath and the DNA that's on it.
42:25
Speaker 1: Officials also said that cell phone data and surveillance put
42:28
Speaker 1: Koberger's car at the crime scene, though the defense has
42:31
Speaker 1: disputed those claims. Instead, the defense claimed Kohlberger was miles
42:36
Speaker 1: away from the off-campus house where the students were murdered,
42:39
Speaker 1: and in an official alibi in May of 2024, they
42:42
Speaker 1: claimed that Kohlberger was driving alone on the night of
42:45
Speaker 1: the murders to look at the moon and the stars. Yeah,
42:48
Speaker 1: you know, just your regular old Magellan, out here navigating,
42:53
Speaker 1: using the stars. I mean, I'm completely sold. Who wouldn't
42:56
Speaker 1: be sold on that strong alibi? Kohlberger, who has maintained
43:01
Speaker 1: his innocence since his arrest in December of 2022, was
43:04
Speaker 1: granted permission to ditch his prison clothes and wear a
43:07
Speaker 1: suit and tie at his September court appearance. I don't
43:10
Speaker 1: really have too much of a problem with that. As
43:12
Speaker 1: I've said before, the man's not guilty yet. So if
43:14
Speaker 1: he wants to wear street clothes for now, and that's
43:17
Speaker 1: something that the court allows, then so be it. But
43:20
Speaker 1: as far as this other stuff, as far as the
43:22
Speaker 1: trial being moved, as far as bringing in these experts,
43:26
Speaker 1: it's certainly a bit odd. When you're looking at the
43:29
Speaker 1: state paying for everything and Kohlberger getting all these experts
43:33
Speaker 1: and all this extra help, it certainly says a lot
43:35
Speaker 1: for the state of Idaho and how they feel when
43:38
Speaker 1: it comes to giving a rigorous defense to somebody facing
43:41
Speaker 1: the death penalty. And that's to be applauded because anytime
43:45
Speaker 1: somebody is facing the death penalty, we're talking about serious business. However,
43:49
Speaker 1: my question is, at what point is the line drawn
43:52
Speaker 1: in the sand? And what's the ceiling that the state's
43:55
Speaker 1: willing to spend when it comes to the defense of
43:58
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger? Like usual, we'll keep an eye on things,
44:02
Speaker 1: and when we have some new information, we'll get it
44:04
Speaker 1: added to the catalog. All of the information that goes
44:07
Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.