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203. Why Keeping Porn Out Of Your Marriage Matters · The Ultimate Intimacy Podcast

0:00
Amy: You are listening to the Ultimate Intimacy Podcast, where we discuss how to find ultimate intimacy in your relationship.
0:07
Amy: We believe that, no matter how many years you've been married, you can achieve passion, romance, happiness and ultimate intimacy at any stage of your life.
0:16
Amy: Join us as we talk to not only marriage experts, but couples just like yourself and people who are just flat out fun.
0:24
Amy: The Ultimate Intimacy Podcast is for couples who have a good relationship but want to make it even better.
0:41
Nick: It's the Ultimate Intimacy Podcast with Nick and Amy.
0:45
Nick: Welcome to the podcast, Amy.
0:49
Amy: Thank you.
0:50
Nick: I'm excited to have you as a guest speaker alongside myself.
0:54
Amy: Perfect.
0:54
Amy: I'm excited to have me.
0:55
Amy: I'm so excited to be here today.
0:57
Nick: We've got two guest speakers who are interviewing each other today.
1:00
Amy: Yep, it's going to be fun.
1:03
Nick: We're excited for today's podcast Well, I should say kind of excited.
1:07
Nick: It's a tough subject, but it's something that absolutely needs to be talked about.
1:12
Nick: We talk about all the time in marriage how to connect on a deeper level as couples.
1:18
Nick: Today, we're going to talk about why keeping porn out of your marriage matters.
1:24
Nick: This is a subject that I think is a hard topic for a lot of people to discuss, and I mean it's a very sensitive subject and it's something that a lot of people struggle with and can have a significant negative impact on your marriage.
1:39
Nick: You know, amy and I have done some videos on pornography and I'll be the first to say we don't have a whole lot of experience in this.
1:46
Nick: This is one area that I am very lucky to say that I haven't had, I guess, an issue with.
1:55
Nick: Yeah, I've seen porn, but not by choice.
1:59
Nick: It's not something I've gone out and actively looked for.
2:02
Nick: However, I feel like this is something we can talk about, because Amy and I know several people that are addicted to porn or have been addicted to porn, and we've seen how this has really impacted their marriage and their relationship almost on a daily basis, just for survival.
2:22
Nick: Well, wouldn't you agree with that?
2:24
Amy: Absolutely.
2:25
Amy: And when you say our experience, I think to clarify me.
2:30
Amy: And Nick saw about 30 seconds of pornography in college and that was the extent of that, and at that moment not together, we didn't know each other yet, but 30 seconds was enough for both of us to turn our faces and be like that will not be a part of our life, ever, ever.
2:52
Nick: Yeah, and there's been time since that things will pop up.
2:56
Nick: I remember I was well and we'll get into this discussion too, but real quick.
3:01
Nick: It's amazing how pornography now comes and looks for you.
3:04
Nick: I was doing research on a hike with the Scouts and I typed in the name of the hike and I pulled up pictures on Google and there's a naked lady there and I'm like what does this have to do with a hike?
3:16
Nick: Well, she decided she wanted to take pictures of herself or her husband or whoever in this hike or in the slot canyon.
3:25
Nick: So that keyword obviously brought up a picture of her and I don't know why there was a picture on the internet.
3:29
Nick: But my point is, is even something as simple as like searching out a hike on the internet and all of a sudden, someone having an experience where they go, take pictures in that hike and then post them on the internet, like it's just crazy how this can come looking for you.
3:47
Nick: It's no longer that.
3:48
Nick: Oh, we have to go still a magazine or we have to be looking for it, and so it's.
3:53
Nick: You know, that's one of the things that's very scary as well.
3:57
Amy: Well, and you bring up a good point right there because the world used to look at porn as a naked picture, right, and you still consider that porn.
4:06
Nick: Yeah.
4:06
Amy: Where the majority of the world now, I think, doesn't think a naked picture is anything bad, they probably won't even consider that pornography.
4:17
Amy: They would consider full on videos pornography.
4:21
Amy: Yeah, maybe the goalposts have moved the goalposts have moved because you say, oh, I looked online and I saw this woman.
4:27
Amy: That crap is all over, sometimes social media or on Google or you know, and some people just brush it off as no big deal, now where it should be a big deal.
4:40
Amy: Still, it should still be considered porn any naked picture.
4:45
Amy: But I think society has moved that line, like you said, to pornography as in full, on videos which we don't have experience with.
4:58
Amy: Thankfully, and apparently, after you read our stats, it's pretty significant how bad it's gone.
5:06
Nick: So, yeah, I know many of you are probably thinking well, how are you guys qualified to do a podcast on pornography if you don't have any experience with it?
5:14
Nick: I think there are certain things in life that we gain experience by going through ourselves.
5:20
Nick: And then there's certain things in life that we gain experience by watching what others go through, and I think sometimes being an outside person looking in might even be, in some ways, a little more powerful, because we don't have the defense mechanism or the emotions of going through something ourselves and then justifying why we did it, or putting up that defense mechanism and saying, well, it's really not that bad because we're trying to justify.
5:52
Nick: So yeah, although this is not something that I've struggled or Amy struggled with having an addiction, I think we can talk about it because we have seen others that have and we have witnessed firsthand how this has negatively impacted their life and their marriage, and I think we can talk about those things.
6:13
Nick: And so one of the things we wanted to do is we're going to have two different podcasts on this subject.
6:19
Nick: I think in today's podcast, what we want to do is share some stats, share, I think, kind of the signs of addiction and talk about, you know, porn in general, and then we're going to have an expert on, and we'll follow up with you know, what can people do to get the help that they need or to overcome this addiction, and so that's kind of how we're going to approach it, these two ways.
6:45
Amy: Yeah, and just because we don't have experience in it, I mean we have talked to so so many couples that have been through so much so many family members, friends, lives destroyed because of it and so gratefully, we haven't had to go through anything.
7:04
Amy: But we're not.
7:05
Amy: And this whole podcast isn't about making anyone feel guilty.
7:09
Amy: We're here to say that we've watched people get help and change their lives around, lives around.
7:17
Amy: And so if you haven't had an experience with it, if you've had experience with it, if you've been destroyed by it, if you're sucked into it right now, I hope this podcast and hopefully the follow up podcast, whatever situation that you're in or your spouse is in or people that you know are in hopefully helps in some way.
7:39
Nick: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up because you're exactly right, we're not here to say you know exactly what you said.
7:48
Nick: We're not here to make anyone feel bad that maybe has this addiction, because, look, amy and I, we have our own things that we deal with.
7:55
Nick: Right, every one of us in life have our own personal things that we struggle with, or our weaknesses, so to speak, and you know we're all dealing with different things and, like I said, it's just.
8:10
Nick: You know this is not something we've had to deal with, but we have to deal with.
8:15
Nick: We've had to deal with other things in our marriage that have really tested our marriage and relationship as well.
8:21
Amy: And there are many, many people dealing with this, so you're not alone.
8:25
Amy: It's not a guilt trip Like I feel really, really bad for anyone that's struggling with this, because it has become something that is can be worse than drugs and hard to get away from.
8:37
Amy: We hear about it, so yeah, I just want to help right.
8:41
Nick: Yeah, and this is a stat that I can't back up with anything but I have heard that pornography is as addictive as meth and the stats on meth, if I remember right, are something like 5 to 10%.
8:57
Nick: There's only 5 to 10% recovery rate from a meth addict, meaning 90 to 95% of people that get addicted to meth aren't going to be able to quit.
9:07
Nick: Now, I'm not saying that to discourage or or you know anything like that, because I truly believe anyone can overcome anything that they want to overcome in life.
9:19
Nick: But what I am saying is for those of you who maybe are on the border or you know, haven't got into porn, but maybe you're struggling with things, or those of you who never have looked at porn just talk about you know why, why you want to stay away from that.
9:35
Nick: And I think I can only say, for, for me in my life, I know that I kind of have an addictive behavior with with things, and so for me, I think one of the reasons I've totally shunned I think porn is one of those things in my life that I've put on the top of the list to absolutely shun, and maybe it's because I would be worried about how my behavior would would handle it or something that I would be able to overcome.
10:04
Nick: And so for me anyways, I think again, this is just something in my life that I've said okay, under no circumstances do I want this in my life and I'm going to do everything I can to keep this out of my life.
10:16
Nick: One of the things too is, I think a lot of people, when they think of porn and you brought up a great point is you think of like movies and watching a sex act, but you know how many other things out there are there that are so much say softer than that but can lead us in that direction to move down that path.
10:41
Amy: Absolutely, and it all starts out with something smaller, right.
10:45
Nick: Yeah.
10:46
Amy: I mean, I think I think what you're looking at on social media number one, if you're lusting after something on social media, it can turn into more images, which can turn into more provocative images, which then leads down a path of videos.
11:08
Amy: I mean, it always starts somewhere, right?
11:10
Nick: Yeah.
11:11
Amy: And that's why in our marriage we're so against videos like we try really hard not to even watch rated R or MA.
11:21
Amy: We made a goal 20 years ago not to watch any rated R movies and we've kept to that because we don't even want to put stuff in front of us that's going to be, I guess, arousing in any way.
11:38
Nick: Yeah.
11:38
Amy: Or lustful in any way.
11:41
Nick: Well, and what's really funny.
11:42
Nick: And Amy even says this is like something will pop up in a movie or on the TV and it's not even bad at all.
11:49
Nick: But I can feel like I can feel like me being offended over it a little bit and like, oh, I'll just skip through this.
11:56
Nick: And Amy's like, oh, they're doing is making out.
11:58
Amy: Like literally just kissing.
11:59
Nick: Like it's funny, like I just I hitting on what Amy said by by eliminating those things that I put in my mind, it's like I become more conscious and more careful about what I put in my mind as well.
12:15
Nick: Right, absolutely.
12:16
Nick: It's interesting Now that works.
12:18
Amy: Absolutely.
12:19
Nick: But hitting, hitting on a subject too, and then we'll dive in.
12:22
Nick: I remember in high school I had a really good friend and he started looking at like swimsuit issues, right, like sports illustrated, which I know a lot of people looked at that thought, oh, it's not bad.
12:33
Nick: But I remember, I remember telling him, I remember saying, hey, like don't, don't look at this stuff, it's going to lead to other stuff.
12:41
Nick: And sure enough, it led to other stuff and other stuff and other stuff.
12:45
Nick: And he, my, from what I understand, he's become addicted to a lot of bad things and I don't know, I don't know how bad it is or what ended up happening.
12:59
Nick: But my point is, is it all started from something that maybe seemed pretty innocent, which drove him down that path?
13:06
Nick: And so be careful what you're watching, be careful what you're putting in your mind, because even things that seem like, oh, it's not that bad, or at least it's not porn, can drive you to one More and more and more, and move that goalpost, so to speak and pretty much social media has turned into sports illustrations, so maybe Be careful what you're swiping and Staring at.
13:34
Amy: yeah, men and women I'm sorry women are Struggling with this too.
13:39
Amy: This is not a man issue.
13:40
Amy: This is a wife and a husband issue, like there are, the stats for women are going up higher and higher too.
13:48
Nick: We.
13:49
Nick: So when we do a video on porn, we have so many people comment and the most of the comments are Well, I don't know about most, but a lot of the comments are oh, you guys are missing out.
13:59
Nick: You, you need to look at porn in your watch videos, you're?
14:02
Nick: You know it'd be so much more exciting.
14:05
Nick: Or people Defending that porn makes things so much better in their marriage and and maybe for them at that time in life, it's it help, it's helping them, or they think it's helping them.
14:17
Nick: But that's not gonna last long.
14:19
Nick: It's gonna be short-lived and temporary, in my opinion.
14:23
Amy: So yeah, that's just, that's a Lot of people's opinions, because we get a lot of people then commenting saying it starts out innocent and then it gets worse and worse and it always ends up Somehow either destroying the marriage or destroying the intimacy, because someone is eventually affected by it.
14:43
Nick: Yeah for sure.
14:43
Nick: So let's jump into some statistics.
14:45
Nick: Statistics, if I can talk.
14:48
Nick: These are from John and Julie Gottman.
14:51
Nick: They did an open letter and I don't know all the background or details of it, but this is pulled from some of the open letter that they did says researchers from Brigham Young University completed a study of a hundred or eight hundred and thirteen university students and found that eighty 87% 87% of men and 31% of women use porn and that 67% of men and 49% of women find pornography used to be acceptable.
15:21
Nick: That's pretty astonishing to me.
15:25
Amy: That is like mind-shocking to me that the worst part is that they find it acceptable, like I think most people Know, that it's probably not the right thing to do and and remember this is these might be higher because they're talking about university students, right?
15:47
Amy: Yeah, I'm not all married people.
15:50
Amy: Yeah, and that could be married people involved.
15:53
Nick: But yes, like yeah but the though, if those numbers are true, which we have no reason to believe they aren't I mean, that's astonishing.
16:02
Amy: That is, that is crazy, very high.
16:07
Nick: Some something else to think about.
16:08
Nick: It says some young man who has adolescents engage in heavy porn use and masturbation report being unable to engage sexually With their spouse or partner later in life.
16:19
Nick: Some of them suffer from porn use or some of them suffered from erectile dysfunction or some other factor that inhibited them from having sex even with a spouse they found to be very attractive.
16:33
Nick: So people who Start looking at porn Can have erectile dysfunction later in life.
16:43
Nick: But even even if they're attracted to someone, they can still have a hard time being sexually intimate with that person Because of the effects of porn use that just shows you what it does to your brain.
16:59
Nick: Yeah, exactly massive things so let's talk about some of the signs that someone is addicted to porn.
17:10
Amy: Okay.
17:11
Nick: All right.
17:11
Nick: Number one here signs that you may be addicted to porn.
17:15
Nick: First of all, you can't stop.
17:17
Nick: Now.
17:18
Nick: That may sound pretty like a Silly thing, but how many, how many of us or how many people say, oh, I can just stop anytime I want and use that as an excuse.
17:28
Nick: But if you're honest with yourself, if you can't stop porn use, if it's something that you continue to justify and keep looking at, that's a sign you're gonna be addicted to porn.
17:43
Amy: Well, I don't have many addictions, but I can say that I cannot stop biting my nails and that's been 42 years, right, and I know that's like a really, really stupid analogy and people are rolling their eyes.
17:56
Amy: But like, when you are like, even if it's the smallest thing, like it's hard to get over something you've done for a long time, like people that that smoke have a really hard time stopping right or drinking, like addictive drinking have a really hard time stopping.
18:14
Amy: Porn is Overtakes your brain and I mean Nick, have these conversations all the time like I'm like why, like I'm nervous about something, are I have anxiety about something that's coming up?
18:26
Amy: Like why can't I control my brain?
18:28
Amy: Because my brain is very, very powerful.
18:31
Amy: Now, if you have some kind of substance addiction, you can literally like lock yourself in a room without that substance and Like be away from it, right.
18:41
Amy: But when you have Something in your brain that you have to try and control, that's like a whole another Level yeah that's a whole nother level.
18:56
Nick: So when I, when I accidentally saw a video porn, I was probably like I Guess like 17, 18, somewhere in that range, so that was almost 30.
19:08
Nick: That was about 30 years ago.
19:10
Nick: I can still remember that image right, like it never leaves my brain.
19:15
Amy: So yeah, I mean, you're putting stuff into your mind that you can't just hit a delete button, like it never leaves your mind like that's not something, it's not like a substance you can take out of your body and just with hold, like yeah, we have to like realize how insanely and I think most people do Insanely powerful our brains are like I'd like to say, I have control of my brain, I don't know Right.
19:40
Amy: Like they are powerful.
19:41
Nick: Yep, another sign is you lose interest in sex.
19:45
Nick: Now you think that pornography would create a desire for more sexual intimacy, but it actually makes people lose interest in sex because sex, then, is they.
20:01
Nick: They can't get what they need from sex, so they they go to pornography.
20:06
Nick: So yeah, they're, they're still engaging in pornography and fulfilling their desire that way, but they lose interest in actual sexual intimacy, say with their spouse.
20:18
Amy: That's because when you've rewired your brain what sex is, you lose the second word, which is intimacy.
20:25
Amy: You have taken intimacy off of that that word, and it becomes just sex, like there.
20:32
Amy: There is something beautiful in marriage and it's not sex, it's sexual intimacy.
20:39
Amy: That is the only reason it is beautiful in marriage.
20:42
Nick: Mm-hmm.
20:42
Amy: So when you destroy that like that changes everything for both people absolutely.
20:50
Nick: Another sign is you want more, not sex, but porn.
20:53
Nick: So, as you're someone who's addicted to porn, you're gonna see your sex life or sexual intimacy Decrease and your your sexual desire for porn increase.
21:07
Nick: So, instead of having good, healthy sexual intimacy with your spouse, that's gonna continue to decrease, but you're you're gonna get heavier in the sneaking out of the room and watching porn online and, and you know, engaging your sexual desires and fantasies through porn, not through Healthy sexual intimacy and connection with your spouse or maybe what that means is that you don't get aroused by your spouse.
21:38
Amy: You want maybe more sex, but it's not the connecting kind of sex.
21:41
Amy: I don't know, I don't.
21:42
Amy: I don't know what porn does, but I can see there being a real disconnect in the relationship.
21:47
Amy: Especially one person is against it and it becomes, you know, a lie or disconnect between the two of you.
21:54
Amy: And If it becomes an addiction, sex probably becomes an addiction.
21:59
Amy: But it's not the loving, connected kind of sex.
22:01
Amy: Yeah right exactly.
22:05
Nick: People that are addicted to porn also become more demanding because they have unrealistic expectations about what sex should be.
22:11
Nick: I think this is one.
22:13
Nick: One of the biggest things is when you it's so natural to, like, look at something on TV and I'm not I'm not saying you have to see anything, but they allude to that just okay, you're the the woman throws you against the wall and has her way with you, or she's initiating, or, you know, I, I.
22:35
Nick: The point I'm trying to make is the movies, the things that we watch, the things that we hear.
22:41
Nick: We, we think this sex should be a certain way, and it's not.
22:47
Nick: So someone looking at porn is Going to view that as a realistic Expectation about sex, when in reality it's completely unrealistic.
22:56
Nick: But they're gonna think, hey, why, this is the way sex should be in my relationship, and so you know.
23:03
Nick: If, though, if sex isn't like that in the relationship, then you know, you feel like maybe you know what's wrong, or something like that.
23:12
Amy: Yeah, I think your entire Reality of sex gets completely warped, because porn is toxic, fake Evil, and I don't want to keep going off on it, but it's it's not married loving, connected sex, I'm sure, and it's probably disgusting and and it shouldn't become a reality in any way.
23:42
Nick: Yeah.
23:42
Nick: Another sign is that you lose attraction to your spouse.
23:46
Nick: I think that's pretty self-explanatory and I totally see how that could happen.
23:52
Nick: You know you're view viewing all these unrealistic fake fantasies and you know you're gonna start comparing your spouse and saying why, why do you not look this way?
24:05
Nick: Why do you not act this way?
24:07
Nick: Why is our sex life not this way?
24:09
Nick: Just Pretty sad.
24:13
Amy: It's really sad.
24:14
Amy: That's really sad.
24:15
Amy: It's just fake.
24:16
Amy: But I kind of compared to social media too.
24:18
Amy: It's kind of the same thing, it's fake a lot of it's fake.
24:22
Amy: So we have to be very careful what what we put into our eyes or what we see for sure.
24:31
Nick: People that are addicted to porn become distracted in life.
24:34
Nick: This can be distracted in work, distracted with family.
24:39
Nick: Porn seems to overtake many aspects of their life and their life starts revolving around the porn instead of other things revolving around their life.
24:52
Amy: Yeah, as in any addiction right.
24:54
Amy: Oh, absolutely, yeah, any addiction is gonna cause that yeah.
24:58
Nick: Yep.
24:58
Nick: And then another sign is you're spending money on it.
25:02
Nick: And so I remember talking to someone and they were telling me about this guy that was addicted to pornography and they're looking to do his finances and and he was spending upwards of like anywhere from $8,000 a month to $15,000 a month On his porn use and he was trying to hide that.
25:27
Nick: But you're thinking how in the world can you spend eight to $15,000 a month on porn use?
25:33
Nick: But, just like any addiction, obviously you're gonna, you know, start spending a lot of money on that, right what?
25:40
Amy: the crap.
25:41
Amy: Who has that kind of money?
25:43
Nick: Yeah, I mean pretty crazy.
25:45
Amy: He was either going on debt, getting lots of credit cards, putting it against his house, or that's like a whole nother level of addiction, which is financial and fidelity and wow.
25:57
Amy: Yeah yeah, I, I don't, I.
26:01
Amy: That's a lot of money, but If you're even spending hundreds, or, okay, a dollar on it, it's still too much yeah for sure.
26:11
Nick: Obviously, we've talked about this, but consuming pornography releases dopamine in the brain and this has the similar effects of drugs or alcohol and so obviously, as you're looking at porn and Causing those releases to your brain, it's it's gonna be really addictive and really hard to stop, to stop using it.
26:34
Amy: Yeah, like we said, the brain is just whoa, I don't know.
26:39
Nick: Yeah.
26:39
Nick: So I wanted to jump in a little bit more with what John Gottman states, and I just think that, like he's one of the leading researchers behind pornography and Just has done a ton of studies, and so I think you know reading his material is Is as good as places you can go, but he he talks about the different ways and Other factors about porn that can threaten a Relationship.
27:09
Nick: So first he says intimacy for couples is a source of connection and communication between two people.
27:16
Nick: But when one person becomes accustomed to masturbating to porn, they're actually turning away from intimate interaction.
27:24
Nick: And I think that's so true and that's really good.
27:27
Nick: I remember we did an earlier podcast, probably a couple years ago, on porn, and I remember a statement also being made when you bring porn into your relationship, you're bringing a third party into your intimacy and and you really are like that's the thing about sexual intimacy is it's between you and your spouse, but you're, if you're, if you're bringing porn into that, you're literally bringing a Third piece into that relationship.
27:57
Nick: And that's always stuck with me too, because I think that's Absolutely true.
28:01
Amy: Well, many Christians will admit that pornography is committing adultery, in a form of committing adultery which I agree with.
28:10
Amy: You're bringing a third party into the bedroom, and yeah what can you say?
28:20
Amy: Oh.
28:21
Amy: Second, when the watching pornography, the user is in total control of the sexual experience, in Contrast to normal sex in which people are sharing control, but their spouse thus a porn user may form the unrealistic expectation that sex will be under only one person's control.
28:40
Nick: Yeah, I think that's true.
28:42
Amy: I do think that's true, yep.
28:47
Nick: Yeah, I think that's so, so true.
28:50
Nick: When someone's watching pornography, they are totally in control, and I can see how that could Create unrealistic expectations and and want them to try to have to continue to be in control.
29:00
Nick: 30 says the porn user may expect that their spouse will always be immediately ready for intercourse.
29:05
Nick: This is unrealistic as well, I think.
29:09
Nick: I mean that's pretty self-explanatory when you're looking at porn, it's, it's just there whenever you want it and you're gonna have that unrealistic expectation that, hey, if you know I should, it should be ready to go at my immediate Readiness, I guess, so to speak.
29:26
Nick: So and the fourth?
29:28
Nick: Some porn users rationalize that pornography is okay if it doesn't have any.
29:35
Nick: Fourth, some porn users rationalize that pornography is okay if it does not involve partnered sexual acts and instead relies on only masturbation.
29:44
Nick: This will accomplish orgasm, but the relationship goal of intimate connection is still confounded and ultimately lost.
29:54
Amy: Well, that just brings up the whole masturbation.
29:56
Amy: Some people are okay excuse me, are okay with it in marriage.
30:01
Amy: I think that there are times, if you talk about it, there are probably cases where it's fine.
30:08
Amy: But the problem with masturbation is when you go take care of yourself sexually in a marriage, you are 100% losing that communication, or?
30:19
Nick: that connection from it.
30:21
Amy: Yeah, that's what intimacy and sexual intimacy is foreign marriages to bring you together.
30:26
Amy: So when you are Cutting that process out of your relationship more and more often because it's easier or whatever, or Because your spouse doesn't want it, or because they're not involved for whatever reason, that's just a major disconnect right there.
30:44
Amy: Like the entire purpose of sexual intimacy is to find a balance that's healthy for both of you like to find that, that middle, perfect ground that works for both of you so you could connect intimately, and so that can.
31:00
Amy: Masturbation alone, which usually comes hand-in-hand with porn, can just totally destroy that balance 100% yeah, yeah, exactly.
31:11
Nick: So some of the other things that I think we want to hit on real quickly too is the trust issues.
31:16
Nick: I mean, if you have a spouse that's, let's say, your spouse discovers you're looking at pornography, obviously this can be a huge cause of betrayal and something that can significantly damage the relationship.
31:30
Nick: I mean, we we've seen in people that we know just this happened as well, just when, when couples are dealing with this, the trust between the couple is eroded and it's so hard to build back.
31:47
Nick: I think there's always that Fear, or always that question of like okay, are they?
31:51
Nick: Are they looking at this or are they doing something they shouldn't?
31:55
Nick: Or you know what, you know what's happening.
32:00
Amy: I just feel and I don't know, maybe I might get hemorrhaged for saying this I'm just gonna be completely wrong, honest with this.
32:06
Amy: I told Nick when we got married to me I wasn't worried about him because I knew him deeply and I knew that he had never had issues with it.
32:13
Amy: But I laid it out and I said you know, to me pornography is like committing adultery to me, like that's, it's not gonna be acceptable in my marriage.
32:21
Amy: It's not acceptable to me.
32:24
Amy: Um, I don't know what would happen in our marriage if that became an issue.
32:31
Amy: But what I do know is that those kind of things are led up to like there's usually disconnects in the marriage or there's signs coming up to it or there's some kind of red flags.
32:43
Amy: I don't know, I don't feel like it.
32:44
Amy: Just I think for some people, yeah, I think the door has just been like what Wait, I had no idea.
32:49
Amy: But I do usually think that some people start having signs in the relationship that build up to that.
32:56
Nick: But what I?
32:56
Amy: was saying is like for me, like I would completely freak out if that became a problem in our marriage, because I do feel like that's completely loss of trust and fidelity.
33:10
Amy: It's full on lusting to me it's cheating and when you're looking at lusting over other women or couples that's completely against what I believe but that would actually absolutely rip out my heart.
33:27
Amy: Like to me.
33:28
Amy: That's full on.
33:29
Amy: You have betrayed all my trust.
33:31
Nick: Well and I, we go back to boundaries.
33:33
Nick: I think that's one of the boundaries we talked about in our marriage right from the get go.
33:37
Amy: Before we got married.
33:38
Nick: Absolutely.
33:39
Nick: I remember telling Amy I'm like, yeah, I pray every night that I won't have the desire to look at pornography.
33:44
Nick: And I remember her laughing.
33:45
Nick: She said, well, why would you pray for that if you don't have a problem?
33:48
Nick: And I'm like, because I don't ever want to have a problem, I don't want to have that desire.
33:52
Nick: It's like it's almost like what's the word I'm trying to use, like preventive maintenance, right, Like I I know my personality, I know I mean, I'm a guy like this is something that obviously it's not an issue, but I don't ever want it to be an issue.
34:13
Nick: And so I've tried to do things in my life to do preventive maintenance, whether it's pray every night that I won't have the desire, and then also, like I said, not watching certain, you know, rated movies and really being careful about what I watch and put into my head, because we are what we, what we put into us, right, Like if we're constantly putting something in our minds, that's what we're going to become.
34:40
Nick: And so I've I've tried to really be careful about what I put into my mind and what I take in.
34:48
Nick: And I will tell you this like it's amazing, like I really feel, like my mind is clear, my mind is free and I don't have those desires to look at that, because I've chosen not to put those things into my mind, and so, anyways, that's just something that's helped me and and maybe, maybe, it can help some of you as well.
35:11
Amy: And I think women have to do the same exact thing.
35:13
Amy: Because I'm like I was probably even more sexually aware of myself before we got married and after marriage I think women have can have just as much as a drive and a desire to maybe even need porn more than men, just because sometimes their arousal is lower and it absolutely I could see it working for women just as much as men.
35:38
Amy: The problem is like it goes both ways though.
35:41
Amy: Like that, that betrayal and that trust, the damage that can happen from your spouse looking or watching, or number one, or mostly getting addicted to that even more.
35:52
Amy: So.
35:52
Amy: I mean we've talked to so many friends, so many couples, that hurt is real.
35:58
Amy: Like that hurt is devastating.
36:00
Nick: Well, I think you bring up a great point.
36:02
Nick: Like you know, porn to women could look maybe a little bit different than porn to men.
36:06
Nick: Maybe it's a romance novel that's very graphic right, absolutely.
36:10
Nick: Maybe maybe it's something like that, I mean anything that arouses those passions and starts getting us, you know, looking or feeling, or you know, becoming emotionally attached to something else.
36:25
Nick: So I think we just need to be real careful about you know, rather than saying here's what's right, here's what's wrong, here's what you should do, here's what you shouldn't do, I think we just need to be really cautious and careful about what we're taking in and putting in our minds and you know, it really is just as simple as that, and I think you need to keep having these conversations.
36:45
Amy: We talk about it all the time.
36:46
Amy: Okay, how are we going to teach our kids to stay?
36:48
Amy: I mean, we had a teenage son.
36:50
Amy: He never had any issues with this, but like we had to talk about it constantly.
36:57
Amy: Like this is, this is what experts are saying it can do to you.
37:00
Amy: This is how bad I'm an addiction.
37:01
Amy: This is how low you can feel.
37:03
Amy: This is how dark you can feel if you, if you, partake of this, this is.
37:08
Amy: I mean there's enough studies and research out there to show how bad it can hurt the person and a relationship and especially the marriage.
37:23
Amy: Like it's, it's real, it's affecting so many people and talking about it as a couple is just absolutely key all the time.
37:32
Amy: Like, how, how are we doing with keeping it out of our life?
37:36
Amy: How are we doing with keeping it our lusting off of social media?
37:40
Amy: How are we?
37:41
Amy: How are we doing setting boundaries together?
37:43
Amy: How?
37:43
Amy: How are you feeling about it?
37:45
Amy: Like it's got to be an open conversation in marriage all the time.
37:48
Amy: That's how you keep it from being, all of a sudden, this problem that you had no idea was coming.
37:54
Nick: Right.
37:55
Amy: It's talking about it constantly.
37:58
Nick: And just I would, I would recommend to you know, sit down together as a couple and say, okay, what kind of movies are we going to watch and not watch in our relationship, and kind of just set some boundaries to protect your marriage and to protect each other from these things.
38:13
Nick: Because if you're watching rated our movies that are pretty explicit, how, how can you expect to not have the desires to continue to maybe move forward or even deeper, to get into porn or different things like that?
38:26
Nick: I mean, it all starts out really innocent and really mild and then has those feelings you know, build up and continue to build up.
38:36
Nick: So sit down as a couple and talk about things together, determine what boundaries you're going to put in place and if you do struggle with these things, talk about together as a couple and be open about it and work together on how to you know again, resolve, resolve these things.
38:53
Nick: So, as mentioned, we're going to have an expert come on and talk about, you know, how people that are struggling with pornography can can get the help they need and overcome these desires that they have.
39:09
Amy: And for the spouses that that are dealing with this.
39:13
Amy: You know, maybe their spouse is really struggling and it has become an issue in your marriage.
39:19
Amy: We have just because I say I wouldn't put up with it we have watched and seen so many couples who maybe felt like that do come together and embrace each other and overcome it Like we've seen marriages come out stronger from that.
39:35
Amy: So, even though I'm like hardcore, like that's not acceptable, like I don't know what I would do in that situation, I can't say that I, after 21 years of loving Nick, if he was struggling with something, I wouldn't be there for him and and try to make it through that.
39:49
Amy: I'm not saying that's not how I would be.
39:51
Amy: I'm just saying I, now that it's become such a prevalent problem in society and with so many people, there is so much help out there now.
40:01
Amy: There are so many resources out there now and we've seen so many couples going from this almost destroyed us to we've knocked this out of our marriage.
40:10
Amy: We've overcome this together and now my husband or my wife is stronger than ever and yeah, it might be something we always have to work together on, but they become better and stronger because of it.
40:23
Amy: So there is.
40:24
Nick: There, there's lots of hope and there's lots of hope and instead of being ashamed or feeling like oh, I've made a mistake that I you know lots of mistakes or lots of mistakes.
40:34
Nick: Don't don't feel that way.
40:36
Nick: I mean that's you know.
40:39
Nick: Sit down and talk to your spouse and work on this together, work as a team together.
40:45
Nick: Yeah, it might not be the easiest thing to do, but in the long run, your marriage is going to be blessed, it's going to be stronger because of it.
40:53
Amy: You're going to have a much happier marriage and well, it's not something you can hide and do alone either, because then you're when you.
41:01
Amy: The biggest way you can do betrayal and break trust in a marriage is to keep secrets, right, so when your spouse is struggling with something, you've got to talk about it and be open.
41:11
Amy: I mean, that's the only way you can move forward.
41:14
Amy: So, keeping from a keep hiding it from your spouse, the biggest thing you can do when a spouse is struggling with something is to be accountable for each other, right, yeah, like let's, I need.
41:25
Amy: I need help working on this, help me be accountable for my actions and then putting boundaries into place and getting professional help.
41:32
Amy: Like there's, there's so much hope.
41:35
Nick: There really is.
41:35
Amy: There's so much hope.
41:36
Nick: And in the show notes we'll put links to a couple places as well that you can go to to look into how you can get help that you need as well, and we really hope you enjoyed the podcast.
41:48
Nick: I mean this is a subject that it's really hard and difficult to talk about, but something that so many people, so many couples, struggle with at one level or another, whether it's just at the infancy or whether it's, you know, an addiction that really is ravaging their relationship, and so, again, it's never too late to turn back.
42:08
Nick: It's never too late to get the help that you need and turn your marriage around to be able to have that relationship and that connection that we all desire and we all crave.
42:18
Amy: So and it's never too late to start right now and say this will not be acceptable or part of our marriage, and set boundaries right now together that'll keep it out, and that starts with social media boundaries, movie boundaries and yeah, like just making sure that your conversation and openness is 100% vulnerable in this area.
42:44
Nick: Yeah, it's like leaving your front door unlocked and open.
42:46
Nick: Like if you don't set the boundary, if you don't lock that door, if you don't put a fence around something to keep things out, it's going to easily walk through that front door and come in when you least expect it.
42:57
Nick: So, like Amy said, I think it's really important to establish boundaries and then put up those boundaries and really kind of have a plan, I guess, so to speak, as to how am I going to keep this out of my life and you know doing those things almost on a daily basis to just keep these different things out of your life so that it doesn't impact your marriage, and again getting back to that, almost like preventative maintenance, so to speak.
43:22
Nick: So we hope you enjoyed the podcast and we really appreciate all of you.
43:31
Nick: Just Amy and I absolutely love doing the podcast.
43:35
Nick: We hope that comes through.
43:36
Nick: We love talking to all of you through social media, through our polls, through emails.
43:40
Nick: It means a lot to get the comments and emails that we do and so we're so grateful for each one of you and appreciate you listening to the podcast.
43:51
Nick: Always feel free to shoot us an email and let us know what you think, let us know how we're doing or if there's a subject that we haven't covered, we haven't covered, we'd like to hear in a future podcast.
44:00
Nick: So until next time, we hope each one of you have ultimate intimacy and a relationship.