Latest / The Accounting Podcast / DOGE Chaos, Reciprocal Tariffs, Deloitte Backs off DEI, AICPA Caves on 150

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DOGE Chaos, Reciprocal Tariffs, Deloitte Backs off DEI, AICPA Caves on 150 · The Accounting Podcast

• There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript. Blake Oliver: The AICPA has caved on the 150 hour rule. They issued a press release saying that they are backing the 120 and two years of experience option, which is what Ohio did and which is what all the states seem to be moving to, and which the AICPA hinted was the the will of the people when they did this survey that they did a while back. So there you have it. Two months after Barry Melanson is out as AICPA president. [00:00:30] The AICPA has backed away from 150 hours. David Leary: Coming to you weekly from the OnPay Recording Studio. Blake Oliver: Hello, and welcome back to the Accounting Podcast. The number one podcast for accountants in the world. Your weekly news roundup of everything going on in the accounting profession. I'm Blake Oliver. David Leary: And I'm David Leary. Blake Oliver: And David, so much chaos created by Doge this week. [00:01:00] Uh, I think I mentioned last week how I'm a I'm a fan of the idea of doge, uh, the Department of Governmental Efficiency, so-called department, as the New York Times refers to it. Um, and their efforts to curb government waste and spending and draw attention to the what is it, like 700, 800 billion in discretionary government spending that's non-defense related? That goes out the door every year? Um, but it it has been a firestorm [00:01:30] this week. We'll talk about that. Uh, we've also got the AICPA caving on 150. We've got reciprocal tariffs. Uh, I'm not a fan of tariffs, but I kind of like the idea of reciprocal tariffs. And then Deloitte is backing off of Dei initiatives. David those are my top stories this week. How about you. David Leary: Um, I still want to catch a story from last week about Adobe's survey of 1000 Americans about taxes. Because I honestly, when we get into the tips, I think accounting professionals [00:02:00] might not be so keen on the tips that are provided. Blake Oliver: Okay, well make sure to get to that this time. David Leary: There's an article about how deep seek might not be good at accounting. Um, and I want to touch on, uh. I'm sorry. What did I say? It might be good. It might be good. Blake Oliver: It might be. David Leary: Good. Be good, might be good. Okay. Um, and I think also we have a listener mail I want to touch on because it's, it really ties to Dodge. It ties to the 150 hour rule. It catches a lot of things. And the current state of where we're at in this chaos state, [00:02:30] I think, okay, let's bring that down a notch. Blake Oliver: Maybe first, let's thank our sponsors, who are the sponsors of this episode. David Leary: David CPAacademy, relay Cloud Accountant Staffing and Rowe. All right. And I'll jump right in with our first ad now. Blake Oliver: Excited to have CPAacademy sponsoring the show, a subsidiary of the AICPA. David Leary: So Blake, do you have a CPAacademy domain yet? @blaketoliver CPA. Blake Oliver: I have not [00:03:00] gotten my CPA domain, but maybe I'll be convinced after I listen to this sponsor message. David Leary: It's available to you. So have you ever tried to get the perfect web domain for your firm, only to find out it's already taken? Or worse, worried about phishing scams that could put your clients at risk? That's why a CPA domain, or that's why CPAacademy offers CPA domains exclusive to the accounting profession. Not only does a CPA domain boost your credibility and branding, but it also protects your firm from online fraudsters who [00:03:30] try to mimic your website and steal client information. Because unlike a regular.com domain, only verified accountants can register a domain, making it more secure and a trusted option. Blake Oliver: So do I have to be a CPA to have one of these? David Leary: You do have to be a CPA. So basically what they're saying is a fraudster could just go and pretend they're your website and misspell it. But if they if they don't have the CPA, it's people are going to know it's a fraudulent website. Right. You need that. It's harder to get. [00:04:00] Blake Oliver: So I happen to own Blake Oliver. Com I got really lucky with that. Somebody just let it go, and I grabbed it. But if I couldn't, I could definitely get Blake Oliver, CPA is what you're telling me. David Leary: You might be able to get Blake, CPA. You should go try. Because beyond security, a CPA domain also helps you stand out with a professional, shorter and more memorable web address that instantly boosts your firm's credibility. And here's the best part you can get a free professional starter website that you can set up in just minutes. So if you're ready [00:04:30] to make your firm's online presence stronger, safer, and more professional, now's the time to act. You can claim your CPA domain today and get 20% off with the code. Tap 25, head over to The Accounting Podcast. That is The Accounting Podcast promo. Blake Oliver: Check it out and use those links if you want to support our show by supporting our sponsors. David Leary: And the coupon code. I mean, 20% off of a domain is pretty good. I don't know how much that cost. I don't know if you have to join the ACPa first and get your CPA [00:05:00] first. There's a lot of it's a very expensive domain, maybe. Blake Oliver: Well, I mean, so that, you know, keeps out the riff raff, right? I guess that's the idea. Um, wonderful. Well, welcome to our live stream, viewers. Our number one attendee. Boring accountant. Three, uh, coffee emojis. This morning. David Leary: I feel like I'm on, like, ten. I feel like I'm on ten coffees today. Blake Oliver: Uh, I needed it to go through the news this morning before we recorded. And, uh, Christopher. Welcome. Christopher says, uh, because accountants were absolutely [00:05:30] relying on web traffic for sales leads. Sarcasm. Well, you know, most do not. Historically, it's been referrals. Uh, but actually, when I had my cloud based firm, we got all of our leads, almost all of them via the web and SEO and all that stuff. So, I mean, some people do, uh, and I think it's a great way, uh, to get leads. David Leary: I think they also offer email, too, so you don't have to have a Yahoo email address for your clients anymore. You can have a CPA. [00:06:00] Com address which is a little bit nicer with email. Blake Oliver: Wait, wait. So but you'd have a CPA address. So that's what confuses me. It's like we have CPAacademy is the is the company that you buy this from. But the domain is CPA. David Leary: Yeah. The domains dot CPA in their email service. I'm not positive if you get an at Com or you get. Blake Oliver: Well if you own the domain you can set up your own email. David Leary: But but they sell separate email service. You don't even have to get the domain. You can get a CPA branded [00:06:30] email address and stop using Yahoo and Hotmail and all these old formats, which a lot of accountants still use because we see them. These email addresses come through on apps all the time. Blake Oliver: All right, let's talk about Doge. Um, where to start here? Um, is Doge illegally withholding funds appropriated by Congress. This is the big question this week, and this is the potential constitutional crisis that is being set up in the courts right now. Um, so. There's [00:07:00] been a payments freeze on the Treasury payment system for certain amounts, I guess, since like January 20th something. So it's been like 18 days. And, um, there are some lawsuits now winding their way through the courts. Uh, one from the Pennsylvania governor, apparently. Um, we have apparently the Trump administration through Doge has, like, frozen [00:07:30] a bunch of funds. Have you heard about this, David? David Leary: I know that funds are being frozen. And instantly when my brain went to the exact opposite of Biden, uh, releasing, releasing or relieving people of student loan debt, the big argument was Congress controls the purse, not the president. So then when I see this happening where funds are being turned off, I'm like to me in my brain like, that's the same thing. So I understand the legal argument here. Blake Oliver: Interesting. I like that parallel, David. That's that's that is very [00:08:00] insightful. Um, because that's. David Leary: Kind of that's it. I'm out. See you later next week. Blake Oliver: Uh, um, yeah. So, so so there's a few things. It's like, uh, the Trump administration is also withholding or has clawed back funds that were sent to New York City for like housing migrants. And I guess they're saying that these were these funds were used to house illegal immigrants in hotels in New York City. They're clawing back that. So it's really it's setting up this, uh, crisis where, you know, um, and [00:08:30] I totally understand these arguments here. It's like the the role of the executive is to execute the will of Congress to, to defend the, the United States from enemies, internal and external to, uh, to execute the laws right to enforce the laws passed by Congress. And those laws include funding. So it is to give out the money, spend the money, uh, run these departments that Congress has authorized. And it seems like with these, you know, federal freezes [00:09:00] like the argument is. Well, you know, the executive is not doing its role, right? That that's their job. It's not their job to decide what funds go out. That's up to Congress. But at the same time, I'm thinking like, well, it's only been 18 days, right? And it seems kind of crazy to me that like, like Pennsylvania, for instance, is suing the Trump administration now for this freeze on funding. Blake Oliver: But it appears that, like the Pennsylvania departments that are getting this funding and a lot of it's like for environmental cleanup, [00:09:30] that sort of thing, like fixing these wells that are like, you know, need to be shut down or whatever. Um, they can just go into, like the treasury system and just pull the money. Right. So that's what has been stopped. They have access to these online systems to just take the money has been has been shut off. And it seems kind of crazy to me that that's how easy it is to get the money, right. Like, so I understand [00:10:00] this idea that, like, the president shouldn't just be able to shut off access to funds that Congress has appropriated, but how easy does it does the executive need to make it to get the funds? Like, like shouldn't I mean, shouldn't we have some sort of like, reimbursement process instead of just, here's the money, right. Go spend it. Like, do we have any evidence that the money is being spent properly? I don't know, like, does that make sense, David? David Leary: Yeah, I think it's [00:10:30] it's the same bell went off for me. I was listening to NPR and it was there was a country that depends on the US aid that that money coming through and It got turned off in the very next day. Basically, they had no money left and I was like, but but millions have been going there. Is it not being like, no bank like, it's like all these organizations, are they just paycheck to paycheck on this money that's coming from the government and that's the. Yeah. Like when it comes to millions and billions, it's being distributed where's [00:11:00] like there's no like once it leaves the Treasury. Is there any due diligence on this. Like how do they not have any left. Some of these organizations there's they've taken millions and millions, millions and millions and millions. Blake Oliver: Yeah. Exactly. It so so I feel like a lot of this, like drama in the news is about this freeze that has only been for a very short amount of time. And maybe it should take like 30 days to get your money, [00:11:30] and you should have to submit some evidence of how it is being spent. And that to me seems like Just. Just feels right. Like that. The executive as the, uh, you know, the Treasury, under the directive of the president, should be able to set some limits on access to these funds to ensure they are spent properly. It shouldn't be so easy just to get the money like that. That would be like if in a company. [00:12:00] Right. Let's say you had a, you know, uh, I don't know, like companies reimburse employees for expenses, right. Expense reimbursements. So in most companies, you have to, like, submit a receipt to get reimbursed for your expense. But what if your policy and your company was just like, uh, you know, here's a card and just spend the money and there's no there's no that's it. That's that's your policy. What do you think would happen? David Leary: Yeah. Blake Oliver: If they didn't [00:12:30] if people didn't have to justify their expenses, they'd just spend the money, right. And that's what you see happen when you have like salespeople with these, you know, expense cards and they're not held accountable. They just go spend it on on lunch with their friends. Right. David Leary: So, so so a lot of these are a grant, right? And I didn't I guess in my brain, I never realized how much of this money was moving real time. I always imagined when they grant somebody money, the people would accept the grant and they put it into their fund accounting, and that money can only been be spent on whatever. This goes back to fund accounting 101. [00:13:00] Right. That grant has to be siloed and only spent on whatever that grant is for by the nonprofit or the organization. I didn't realize that the money trickles in every week, just little tiny bits at a time. Or you request it and pull it. Blake Oliver: I didn't realize that's what it seems to be. David Leary: Your system is so real time. I'm shocked actually. Blake Oliver: Yeah. Isn't it funny that, like, the one system in the government that seems to work in real time is like the the distribution of taxpayer dollars to all the states, right? David Leary: Like it's ironic. Yeah. Blake Oliver: It's ironic. [00:13:30] Right. Like, like for us we to for accountants to work with the IRS. It's like months or years to get a response. But if you're Pennsylvania and you have a federal grant, you can just go take the money instantly. It's that easy. I just feel like that is a problem. Like it's too easy to get the money, you know? And they're freaking out now that they don't have it after 18 days, like you said, is there no. Is there no, like, buffer here? Um, like this. To me, it's like the situation where, like, let's say you have like a family member that is [00:14:00] like always spending too much money, right? And you have there's like an allowance you give that, you know. David Leary: A teenager, a teenager, right? Blake Oliver: Right. David Leary: And so it's like they need ten more. I have to put lunch credits on for my kid. And every like once a week I get -$15. Again. I'm like, how does this keep happening? I just put 100 bucks on. It's gone 100 bucks on, it's gone. I'm like the Treasury for him. Blake Oliver: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, um, like, before everyone freaks out about [00:14:30] this, you know, payment withholding and and it's like all this stuff. It's like, let's just wait a little a little moment more, right? Like, maybe, maybe let it go for like a few weeks. I feel like we everyone needs to just calm down and chill out, right? And, um, I think by I think the benefit of a freeze, too, is that you actually see the what's important. So the [00:15:00] fact that, like this is drawing attention to where all this money is going and potential problems. And so like, I don't I don't see that as necessarily a bad thing. Like a little bit of chaos is necessary when you're trying to cut waste and you're trying to cut fraud. Like this is going to happen and we should just, you know, Trump won. Let him and his team do their job. Right. That's that's also part of our political process is the obstruction of the new administration every single [00:15:30] time on both sides is is just like paralyzes our country. Um, so the other issue with Doge this week was like the access to the treasury systems. Uh, did you see did you see about this? Uh, so, um, I got to pull up this story here. Um, one of the one of these young guys on the Doge committee, apparently. Um. Got. So here's here's the deal. Blake Oliver: Three [00:16:00] Senate Democrats, including your favorite Elizabeth Warren, are accusing Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent Scott Bessent of misleading them about DOJ's access to payment systems. So, uh, Doge very intelligently obtained access to Treasury systems, because if you want to figure out where all the money is going, go to the payment system where all these funds are flowing out. Um, and I guess Bessent told the Senate [00:16:30] that. The employees these Doge employees with access to the payment systems, which is like 1 or 2 people had read only access, but apparently they had more than read only access. But then this was like later corrected. And there's no evidence that any of the code was modified. Um, there's allegations that apparently these Doge [00:17:00] employees were developing a payment plan to assist agencies in complying with an executive order to pause foreign aid related payments. I think those are the US aid payments that you were talking about, David. But like all this blow up about what access somebody has or what. And when I actually read it, there's no evidence that anything bad happened that any code was, you know, changed or whatever. Um, and like the access apparently was fixed. So. So what what what [00:17:30] really happened? Maybe it's like it accidentally gave this guy more access than he should have had. That's what I later fixed it. Right. And this is this is the political story, right? David Leary: And and I don't know if you saw yesterday, one person from Doge visited the IRS yesterday. I don't know if you if you caught that. Blake Oliver: Oh, really know what happened. David Leary: So Doge member, uh, Gavin Kilgour made a series of requests, including a description of what each business unit does in the IRS as looking to deliver in the next 90 days [00:18:00] what risk each unit currently faces. According to one of the sources that reported this to CNN. Um, now, what's tricky about this? Who is Gavin Kilgour? Right. I feel like his information is being scrubbed from the internet as I was trying to look at it last night and today. So he was a LinkedIn engineer, so I'm assuming he'd have a LinkedIn page. I can't seem to find it. And then he was also an engineer at Databricks. He graduated in 2020 from Berklee. He's only 25 [00:18:30] years old. He's young. Um, and then he even has put out a he's trolled mainstream media. He created, you know, the blog medium where you can charge people to read your articles. He created an article saying why he left his job to work for Doge, charged thousands of dollars to access it, and it was just an empty, blank article. So he just trolled in mainstream media to pay him this money. Um, he's questionable at best. And I think that the big freakout is a lot of the a lot of these are kids, these young engineers. Yeah. And [00:19:00] the really, really young, they're arguably interns and some of them are 19 that's a couple years older than my boys. I wouldn't have my boys go to the IRS and figure things out. There's no way I would send them there. And the problem I have is the lack of the learning curve. And if I look back at. I have to get a drink. Blake Oliver: Are you okay? Are you okay, David? David Leary: Yeah. Blake Oliver: So, uh, we need to. We need to get you a cough button or something like that. David Leary: My goodness. So if I go back to my cocky 22 year old self, I was six months into taking tech support calls [00:19:30] for QuickBooks and I thought I knew everything. And about two years in, I realized, Holy shit. I was giving out so many wrong answers when I was six months in, right? And when you're 19, 20, 21, 22, you don't have perspective. So to come in and the perspective these kids have, they've only worked at other tech companies. And let's be honest, you and I have worked for tech companies. That is not reality in any way, shape or form. So getting back to the story, it's [00:20:00] he's just trying to get quote unquote the lay of the land at the moment, which is fine. Blake Oliver: But so what's the story? Is it Dodge sent somebody to the IRS? David Leary: Yes. Dodge sent somebody to the IRS and they started asking questions. Blake Oliver: Oh my God. Oh my God. Yeah. What a what a what is going to happen now? David Leary: Yeah. Blake Oliver: So why is this why is this a story? I'm sorry, but I just I just can't I can't take I can't take the media. It's like every little thing becomes this big blow up story, right? I'm sorry. [00:20:30] Go ahead. David. David Leary: No. Yeah. No. And and this is like. In my opinion, you really want to fix the IRS and you want to have these little 19 year old, 20 year old engineering geniuses. Blake Oliver: First of all, David, I want to I wanted to like, take I take issue with that, okay? Just because somebody is young doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. And often people who are old, like you and me, have no clue what we're talking about. Age doesn't matter really. Honestly. Like when it comes to this kind of stuff, I would probably say if you're in the government, the longer [00:21:00] you've been there, the less you know. David Leary: Age may not matter, but I think real world experience matters. So if you really want to fix have these, I'm sure they could do it. I think you could take a team of these 6 to 8, ten of these doge engineering geniuses and put them in the IRS, and they could fix a lot of stuff, but they can't just do it by getting a lay of the of the land, go in and have them work in the IRS for 6 to 8 months. Learn on the front lines how everything's working, everything that's broken. Then go code and fix [00:21:30] things. And I think that's the problem is too many of these are. I looked into it for a half hour. I spent a day there and they're making decisions. And that's the problem they lack. They lack, um, true experience of what the problems are. They're seeing. Blake Oliver: What the. David Leary: People. Blake Oliver: With the experience haven't solved the problem in 30 years. 40 years. The people who are at the IRS, the people who are working in this government bureaucracy, which has grown and grown and grown, have not solved the problem. So I'm happy to give [00:22:00] some young guy in his early 20s a chance. Right? When we send those people to war, we send them to, you know, Iraq and Afghanistan. Why can't we send them to the IRS to figure something out? Right. Maybe that's what it takes. David Leary: And I think they probably have the skill set to do it, but they haven't. I don't think you can observe them enough to know what you're doing. What am I saying? Know what you're doing to make the right decisions. We talked about this with our own company, our own app. Like you just can't have an engineer start coding on your app if they don't understand [00:22:30] what the app's purpose is or why. Blake Oliver: Let's remember what's happening here is this is somebody who's just going in to try to figure out what's happening. David Leary: Yes. Blake Oliver: So what's the problem with that? You know, that's like they they the Doge people with access to the treasury systems became Treasury employees and got security clearances to get this information right. They went through the process. So let them do it, you know, and people are freaking out about like, information leaks and data leaks and all that stuff. Well, if that happens, then that's a problem. [00:23:00] But like, you can't do your job without information. Somebody is going to have to have access to this information. And we have stimulated a lot of conversation in the chat, and I want to get to that. But I think first we should thank our next sponsor, relay. So between David and David in myself. We now have three, four, maybe five business entities, 20 or so checking accounts, dozens and dozens of virtual cards. And it would be impossible to manage all of this if we weren't using relay as our small business bank. [00:23:30] Relay is truly a part of the tech stack we use to run our businesses. Relay allows David and me to each have our own logins. We can grant access to our team and our tax accountant without sharing passwords or two factor authentication codes. Relay allows us to grow and scale our banking needs without ever going into a physical branch. I recently added an account to receive an inbound merchant services payment and it just took a few clicks. We could create payroll checking again, just a few clicks and we had a new checking account. And we've got our ACH info to give to the payroll [00:24:00] provider. With relays virtual cards, we can issue debit cards to our team around the world for needed business expenses. Blake Oliver: We can spin up a new visa debit card and set both daily and monthly spending limits. And when a team member doesn't need their card, we can freeze it until they need to use it again. There's also automation features to sweep money automatically from one account to another. That's one of my favorite features. You can do it based on dates, so every night you can sweep the money from your inbound checking account into your operating account. You can do it into multiple accounts. You can use target [00:24:30] balances. You can use percentages. Very easy to do. Uh, to learn more about using relay for your firm and your clients, head over to The Accounting Podcast. That is The Accounting Podcast. Now let's get to some of these questions in the chat. Uh, Brian, welcome, Brian. Brian says, Blake, do we know if there's a policy to do these checks in the background? Sort of like a construction loan. Uh, we're talking about the, you know, checks on whether these payments like this money is being used [00:25:00] properly. Um, I don't know, but my guess is probably not. I think if there was some sort of, like, verification that these funds are being spent properly, uh, then it wouldn't be so easy to get the funds. It wouldn't be wouldn't be possible to, like, just log in to the treasury system and draw the money out of an account into your own. And you know, what are the odds that, like anybody at Treasury, like, do you think there's really, like enough people at the Treasury to then like, audit the spending of all this money, $800 [00:25:30] billion a year or whatever? Yeah. Blake Oliver: You know, I doubt it. Um, boring. Accountant says some federal funds are fast with a draw. It is 3 to 5 days and others it takes 30 plus days. The problem with slow draws is that all the federal vendors are pre-vetted. So why is there a delay? Well, it's okay if they're pre-vetted. I mean, you know, how hard is it also to become a federal vendor? I'm sure it's just like a process you go through. Right? But what what process do we have in place at the Treasury to actually make sure that the funds are being spent [00:26:00] for the intent that Congress had is there if it's so easy to get that money in just 3 to 5 days, I'm guessing none. So the money just flows from the Treasury to Two. Whoever you know it was granted to, there should be some process to make sure it's spent properly. And if that slows things down, that slows things down. But I'd rather have, you know, a process where we actually, you know, validate and make sure that the money is being spent according to Congress, according to the law. [00:26:30] Gator says mixing things up is expected, but chaos is not what we want with our government. I don't know about that. I mean, we kind of already have it in a lot of ways. So like, what's a little more, if you ask me? Um, if shaking things up is what it takes to fix things, I'm on board with that. Right. I just don't understand how trying to save money, trying to prevent waste and fraud has become a political issue. Like, what world do we live in? David Leary: I think it's a speed [00:27:00] bike that people are not comfortable with. Like this person that went into the Doge guy who went into the IRS. He's the same one who basically shut down USAID. So to have the have the ability to do that. So to say he doesn't do that to the IRS tomorrow just starts cutting off funding to the IRS and shuts down the IRS. That's the fear. That's what's stoking people's emotions over this is it feels like things are very trigger happy. And that's that's an immature 20 year old cocky way to go through the world. I'll [00:27:30] fight you. Come on, man, let's go. Blake Oliver: Well, David, if that is what it takes to sort this out to fix things, then that's what it takes. Like, there's going to be a little collateral damage here, right? Yeah. I mean, and I don't think I mean, if things get really bad, the public will push back on it. And if this is truly unconstitutional, I am sure that the Supreme Court will step in and say so and so, like you got to let this play out, right. David Leary: This is we have branches of government for a reason. Yeah, yeah. Blake Oliver: And, you know, since the beginning [00:28:00] of our country, there have been, you know, political battles and legal battles between our different branches of government. And that's what's happening right now. And the one branch of government that really seems to not like this is the one that's not in the Constitution, which is the bureaucracy. Right. The fourth branch of government, this like, giant bureaucracy of like millions of government employees, um, that like we didn't have when this country was founded. And I'm not sure that we actually need a lot of it. [00:28:30] Um, mad man Dan disagrees or agrees with boring accountant. I think you're way oversimplifying this one. Blake. You're also talking about Pre-vetted funds with Pre-vetted groups as well. You can't lump all of it. One shot. Well, somebody explained to me, what is the vetting that happens like these funds that are going to Pennsylvania, what vetting has happened? Is anyone looking into that? Is anyone concerned about like billions and billions of dollars of, of money that are going out every, every year? I [00:29:00] mean, how much vetting do you think is happening, really? I'd be curious. Maybe we could have a little more, um. Let's see. Lee says pull your head out of the propaganda. Are you really a CPA? Yes, I am a CPA. Lee and I would say that actually most of the people that I've been hearing on this issue are totally buying into propaganda. Uh, like the the narrative on either side of the mainstream [00:29:30] media. Right. You've got liberal media talking about like we've got, you know, Nazis taking over the Treasury payment system. And then, you know, on the on the Fox News side, I actually don't I don't watch Fox News. I don't do any of that stuff. I can't, I can't, I can't handle. David Leary: I saw your. Blake Oliver: Copy of the political media. David Leary: Kidding. Blake Oliver: My coffee cup. What do you. David Leary: Mean coffee cup? No, I think the the thing is, I think we live in a world where maybe you could love and hate Doge at the same time. And I'm going to bring up a Twitter thread [00:30:00] that maybe kind of illustrates this. Okay. And this is a Twitter thread of accountants. Actually, if I can add this, hopefully I have it open correctly here. Yeah. So essentially this is a a Twitter thread from Craig House CPA. His Twitter handle is CPA Tax Team and he tells a story about a client. Client had the return reviewed and refund delayed because of a $38 discrepancy. The IRS took two years to finally issue a refund for the full amount, and added $1,800 [00:30:30] of interest for the delay. It cost US taxpayers $1,800 of interest to resolve. Our government cost citizens that much just on one client. How many other stories like this are there out there? And a lot of accountants are, you know, telling their similar stories. But this is the I think in theory, people love the idea of the government getting more efficient, operating better. I think it's the method that's happening from Doge where people are conflicted. And I think that's you can love Doge and hate Doge at the same time. Blake Oliver: I think people hate Doge because they [00:31:00] hate Elon Musk like I, you know, and I think they hate Trump. It's just it's like a gut reaction that, like, everything the new administration does is bad. It's like when Biden came into office and everything Biden did was terrible, you know, according to Republicans. And now that Trump is in office, everything Trump does is bad. Everything. Like you can't find one good thing. You know, like I didn't you know, I am not a I'm a registered Republican. I didn't vote for Trump, okay? I've never voted for Trump. But that doesn't [00:31:30] mean that I can't see the possible good in what his administration is doing. And I try to look beyond what the media is trying to bias me to think. And I feel like very few people do that anymore. David Leary: And I could kind of see if you step back and you could put yourself into Trump's shoes. I'm sorry, Elon Musk's shoes. And I remember the tweet. It was almost like two years ago. He tweeted at, um, our favorite Elizabeth Warren, [00:32:00] about how he just wrote, like the like the biggest check in US history for taxes. He had to write a $1.8 billion check or whatever he wrote to the IRS for for taxes. So I could see if if you're writing the government a check for $1.8 billion, you might have some opinions how that money is being spent. I almost get like like see his point of view on this a little bit, right? But I agree, people either don't like him, they don't like they don't like Trump. And it's easy to get in these gut reactions. Blake Oliver: Oh yeah. Like my brother like thinks Elon Musk is a like horrible human being. I [00:32:30] think my my father does too. And like I try to explain, I say, look, people can be good and they can be bad and they can be a mix of the things. And most people are right. Most people, humans are a mix of things. Most people in this world, um, and you can admire a guy like Elon Musk for what he has achieved and what he has done with his companies and SpaceX and Tesla and and even X and. David Leary: All supported with government money. He's on the [00:33:00] he's been getting all this government money for these these subsidies. I mean, that's what they are, sir. Everybody does a tax credit for an electric car is a subsidy for Musk. Blake Oliver: Yeah. Have you ever gotten a tax credit, David? Yes. You know, like, we all freaking get tax credits. Everybody in the world, you know it on on all ends. Everybody's getting a payout a government handout. So it's like, you know. David Leary: He might be getting the most he might be getting the most government money right. Between his his contracts with the with between Tesla and the rocket and everything else. Yeah. Blake Oliver: I want [00:33:30] to highlight a comment here in the chat. Uh, Ben, Ben Chen says all the big four auditors on the front line are fresh, young, fresh graduates. Excellent point Ben. We have like, young 20 somethings doing like 80% of the work at the big accounting firms. David Leary: And audit failures are the worst they've ever been, right? Like let's be. Well, that's that's. Blake Oliver: Uh. I don't know if they're the worst they've ever been, but I would argue that they have not like, audit quality improved. Um, but I would say, you know, maybe part of the problem is like because of [00:34:00] the, the business model. But what we're trying to say is like, if you're so opposed, think about this. Like if you're listening to this podcast and you're an accountant or a CPA and you think it's ridiculous that we have like 20 somethings going in, working at Doge, going into all these government agencies and making decisions and, and, you know, like pulling information. I mean, that's basically how audit works in this country. You got like 22 year olds who just got their CPA or don't even have it yet going into fortune 500 companies auditing them. So [00:34:30] like, what's the problem? You know, it shouldn't be an issue. Um, the guys at Doge don't have real world experience to be even asking the right questions that Melissa says, well, if that's the case, then, you know, you could say the same thing about auditors, right? They don't have the real world experience to be even asking the right questions. But that's the system we have as as accountants. Um. Let's see. Okay. We are running out of time today because I have to go in like five minutes and I would love to get to all these comments, but it's just not going. [00:35:00] Oh my God. Wow. Uh. David Leary: They're coming in too fast. Blake Oliver: Okay, they're coming in too fast. I can't get to it. Um, this is a this is like. It's like we turn into video game streamers or something. I don't know how they do it. Um, I'm just gonna have to, like, stream of consciousness. Listen to this. Watch this chat. So, um, how about you? We didn't get to any of these other stories. Like, I want to talk about AICPA, the reciprocal tariffs, the Deloitte and die. Like we don't have any time. We have to read. David Leary: The [00:35:30] next ad and you pull yourself together. Blake Oliver: Okay. David Leary: All right. Blake Oliver: Our next sponsor is. David Leary: Cloud Accountant Staffing. In case you've missed the last 100 episodes or so, Blake and I have been discussing almost weekly that there's an accountants labor shortage. Regardless of the root cause, the problem is real. My social media feeds are full of firms attending to fill open positions on their teams. But how can anyone increase their staff size if everyone is everyone is attempting to hire during a labor shortage. That's where cloud accounting staffing comes in. They will help you hire [00:36:00] a full time team members for your firm that reside in the Philippines. How much would your firm change? Or for that matter, your life? If you could add 40, 80, 120 hours of capacity to your firm in 2025? Cloud Accountant Staffing was founded by a firm owner who grew his firm using offshore talent, and now he's applying everything he learned to help you grow your firm. If your firm is in need of expert bookkeepers, accountants, CPAs or virtual assistants, head over to Accounting Podcast. That is accounting podcast. Thank [00:36:30] you. Cloud accountant staffing. Blake Oliver: All right. We're going to do the shortest news roundup of the last three stories that are in this headline here for our show. The title of this episode, the AICPA, has caved on the 150 hour rule. I guess we can summarize the story into that. They issued a press release saying that they are backing the 120 and two years of experience option, which is what Ohio did and which is what all the states seem to be moving to, and which the AICPA hinted was the [00:37:00] the will of the people when they did this survey that they did a while back. So there you have it. Um, two months after Barry Melanson is out as AICPA president, the AICPA has backed away from 150 hours. So I think, David, you were speculating that basically it was Barry who was like holding the line on this. David Leary: Because just so much has happened so quickly since he's no longer in office. The the states moved forward really quickly. The ACB themselves have moved forward really quickly. Was [00:37:30] he just like an iron fist not allowing any change to happen? Like just leaning into this. The timing is interesting. Like that. How quickly this is all occurring now that he left. Or maybe he knew it was coming and he's like, I'm getting out. I don't want to be around when this actually occurs. But the timing is very interesting to look at. Blake Oliver: It is. Um, go for it, for it, David. You want to talk about this Adobe survey? David Leary: Yeah, the Adobe survey. So I'm going to share my screen here. Blake Oliver: Okay. So I guess this will be our last story. Um, and we will have to get to the tariffs and [00:38:00] Deloitte's die back off, uh, I guess next week. David Leary: So Adobe surveyed 1000 Americans about taxes and then provided them some tips. But the the a couple of the big numbers that came out of the survey, 20% of the respondents said they feel overwhelmed and stressed or completely lost when it comes to taxes. And then when asked about their stress level regarding the process of organizing and gathering their tax documents each year, 37% of the respondents said it was moderate. Respondents said it was moderately stressful, [00:38:30] followed by 29% who said it was very stressful. So Adobe came out with a bunch of tips that I don't think tax professionals are going to totally like to, quote unquote, help you organize your tax docs. So the first thing. Blake Oliver: What is the stat? Again, I'm sorry I missed that. David Leary: So we have organizing your tax documents. 37% said it was moderately stressful and 29% said it was very stressful. So in general, over 50% of people in the respondents said getting my documents in order is kind [00:39:00] of very stressful when it comes to the tax. Blake Oliver: Not just over like if you add those together, that's like a huge that's like substantial. Yes. That is that is 60% of people are either like somewhat or really stressed about it getting their taxes together. Okay. So what are the tips. David Leary: So here are the tips. This that Adobe's doing. Of course number one tip is to convert your tax documents to PDFs because they're in the PDF business. Blake Oliver: Wait, you mean I'm not supposed to send JPEGs to my tax guy? David Leary: Yes. And the second thing is they want you to merge all your related tax documents into a single PDF. [00:39:30] So if you have a bunch of w-2s, put them all into one document. Blake Oliver: I don't. David Leary: Think that's. Blake Oliver: Actually I think that's the opposite of what you're supposed to do. Exactly. My tax guy wants each document titled separate. David Leary: And. Blake Oliver: Then somebody needs to fix this. This is bad. This is bad advice. David Leary: Rearrange PDFs for easier reading. So if you have multiple pages in the PDF document, rearrange them in a logical order. That's stressful. How do you know what the logical order is? If you're just somebody trying to organize your tax documents, you don't know what it is. And [00:40:00] then and then it tells you to create a folder on your system to keep your tax documents organized, and label each folder with specific categories like income, expenses, deductions. I just don't know if like I don't I would not see a tax firm put this blog post out. Like here's some tips to get you ready for working with me as a, as a as your accountant or your firm. Like putting them all into one PDF seems silly to me. It's just really bad tips. Um, arguably these tips are more stressful than. Not [00:40:30] having these tips. I don't know if that's the way I want to say it. Blake Oliver: This is the problem with, um, I the way it's trained is like, so. So an AI is going to read this blog post someday if it hasn't already, and it's going to start telling people to do this crap. Like that's why the answers you get from like an eye that's just been trained on the whole internet are are often bad advice because there's a lot of bad advice out there. And from a company like Adobe, you would think that they would like consult with a tax expert on this before writing a blog post. [00:41:00] You know, probably some 19 year old, right, who was assigned to write the blog post that has no clue what they're doing. Right? David? It's all the young people. You know, young people are the problem in this country, right? Oh my God. Um, this has been so much fun. Thank you everyone who chimed in in the chat here. Uh, apparently this is, uh, something that people care about. And I just want to end today by saying, uh, my view on this is I am nonpartisan when it comes [00:41:30] to these issues. I do not think that preventing fraud, waste, and abuse should be a Partizan issue. Blake Oliver: And I didn't vote for Trump. I didn't vote for Elon, that's for sure. But I am happy to give them a them a chance, because this is a problem. That is the existential end of the United States as a world power. If we allow our debt to continue to grow, to become double the size of the U.S. economy by like 2047. [00:42:00] That's what the Gao is predicting. I think that was the date, which is not that far away. That's what like we're talking 20 years from now. Once you go above, like double, that's when economic empires start to collapse. So like this is this is a big problem and it needs to be addressed. And I'm happy for somebody to finally be taking a look at it. And I think we should all be happy about it. Um, you know, and try not to make this a Partizan issue. And, you know, the media [00:42:30] gets clicks when you get angry. So all these stories are designed to get you riled up so that you. David Leary: Then, based on the comments we're getting and the number of live stream viewers. Blake Oliver: But I'm telling you telling you that when I when I read this news and I actually look at what's happening, um, you know, yes, there's some problems, but also it's like, not what it's being made out to be. And I would say, give doge a chance is what I'm trying to say. That's all I'm saying. Don't [00:43:00] need jerk gut reaction. This thing. David Leary: I think for me, like the conclusion is we're all the accountants. We got to bring levity to all of this and look at the math and look at the numbers. So I'm going to bring a story to the next episode I heard on ABC News Start Here podcast. It's just like a 15 minute start your day type news podcast. And they were talking about how Trump's deportation numbers will not hit Obama's. And I was like, it just stuck with me. [00:43:30] I'm like, this is crazy. It doesn't make sense. So I went and did some research. So I have some graphs and I can show you some data on this next week. But it really but you would never have guessed that because all the media is media is like. It's that fear based. Trump's deporting everybody and Trump brags about it. Right. But if you start doing the math, he's actually going to deport less people than the other. Blake Oliver: At the current rate, he's going to deport fewer people than Obama. David Leary: Yes. Blake Oliver: Like so like that. I love I love stats like that because it just shows you that [00:44:00] the narrative that we are fed is not always what is happening. David Leary: Yeah. And to some extent is his him bragging about it actually causes less people to come. So there's less people to deport. Right. It's a it's a weird like maybe his madness is working in that kind of strange way, but it's sort. Blake Oliver: Of the same. It's similar with the tariffs. Right. So it's interesting we have not actually seen, um, the tariffs that were discussed on the campaign trail, like those 35% tariffs [00:44:30] on China or whatever has not happened. It's but now there's this talk about reciprocal tariffs, which are much more powerful as a negotiating tool, because if you actually did, reciprocal tariffs means matching other countries tariffs, then that incentivizes them to come down. Because if they come down we come down. And so in that way if it works, everybody could win. So, you know, I am trying to withhold judgment. And like Tino said in [00:45:00] the chat, let's see what the net effect will be in four years. Will we be better for all the things that are being found, or will we be worse? And I say yes, even if you don't like even if you didn't support the administration, we have to give them a chance. Otherwise we just get obstructionism on both sides of the aisle and nothing ever changes. David Leary: My eggs are more expensive, I'll tell you that. And I buy a lot of eggs. It's becoming an issue. Blake Oliver: And it has nothing to do with the president. You know, like it's the president [00:45:30] doesn't control the price of eggs. It has nothing to do with the administration. Somebody can correct me if that's the case. But, like, I don't think Biden was responsible for the price of eggs when Republicans were complaining about it. And I don't think Trump is responsible for the price of eggs when Democrats are complaining about it. It's just nuts. Uh. All right. Um, so maybe next week we'll have more information. Maybe I will be wrong, and maybe Doge will have, like, destroyed the United States by withholding this money. Uh. We'll see. Maybe the courts will say, you can't do this, and they'll back off. I don't [00:46:00] know, we'll find out. Uh, it's going to be interesting. David Leary: We'll still be around because we're not. Nobody's going to cut off our funding. We will. Blake Oliver: Yeah. We don't receive we don't receive government funding yet. Maybe we should try to get, like, you know, a grant or something. I don't know what we can do here. Uh, then we can be on the government dole as well. Um. All right, David, I gotta run. I gotta go do physical therapy on my hand. Look, it's almost, almost all the way, but I can't. I can't quite close it yet. David Leary: So getting there, getting there, getting there. Blake Oliver: All right. Bye, everyone. David Leary: Bye. [00:46:30]