Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / #HURDLEMOMENT: An Expert On How To Recognize & Overcome Trauma

Transcript

#HURDLEMOMENT: An Expert On How To Recognize & Overcome Trauma · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: It's not about the actual experience of the event, it's
0:05
Speaker 1: how we're experiencing life in the present based on that
0:10
Speaker 1: we're stuck in this feeling of the past.
0:29
Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, EMILYA Badi here.
0:31
Speaker 3: You are listening to an installment of Hurdle Moment from
0:35
Speaker 3: Hurdle a While. This focused podcast where I connect with
0:38
Speaker 3: everyone from your favorite athletes to top experts in industry
0:41
Speaker 3: CEOs about their highest highs, toughest moments, and everything in between.
0:46
Speaker 3: We all go through hurdles in life, and my goal
0:48
Speaker 3: through these discussions is to empower you to better navigate
0:52
Speaker 3: yours and move with intentions so that you can stride
0:56
Speaker 3: toward your big potential and of course have some fun
1:00
Speaker 3: along the way. For today's episode, I am chatting with
1:04
Speaker 3: doctor Alisa Hallerman. She is the female founder of Recovery
1:09
Speaker 3: Management Agency, the first agency devoting to helping addicts heal
1:14
Speaker 3: their addictions by, as she puts it, reawakening their souls.
1:18
Speaker 3: She is also a new author. Her upcoming book, Soul Variety,
1:23
Speaker 3: comes out on December sixth, and I am so elated
1:27
Speaker 3: to have her on the podcast.
1:29
Speaker 2: Today. We are chatting all about trauma.
1:32
Speaker 3: Why knowing what trauma is and the different ways to
1:36
Speaker 3: treat it can save you years of therapy, misdiagnosis, and
1:40
Speaker 3: being wrongly medicated. In today's episode, doctor Hallerman and I
1:45
Speaker 3: really break it down not only defining what trauma is
1:48
Speaker 3: and the different types of trauma, but also the importance
1:51
Speaker 3: of seeking out a trauma specialist, not just any therapist,
1:56
Speaker 3: a individual and expert who can help you navigate your
1:59
Speaker 3: indie vidual situation. Plus, she also offers up tips and
2:04
Speaker 3: strategies for things that you can do on your own
2:07
Speaker 3: time at home to navigate the emotions, the feelings, and
2:11
Speaker 3: the effects of how trauma has impacted you in your life.
2:15
Speaker 3: This is a really beautiful discussion. Thank you so much
2:18
Speaker 3: to doctor Hollerman for her time. And make sure if
2:22
Speaker 3: you're not doing so yet, you're following along with Hurdle
2:24
Speaker 3: over on social It's at Hurdle Podcast. I am over
2:27
Speaker 3: at Emily a body and with that, let's get to it.
2:31
Speaker 3: Let's get to hurdling.
2:45
Speaker 2: Today.
2:46
Speaker 3: I am sitting down with doctor Alisa Hallerman. How are
2:49
Speaker 3: you doing today?
2:49
Speaker 1: I'm doing so good, Emily, thanks for having me.
2:53
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for making the time.
2:55
Speaker 3: Literally we got on this and the joke was all right, well,
2:59
Speaker 3: I'm just taking a break from saving lives.
3:04
Speaker 2: What's your day to day like right now?
3:07
Speaker 1: It's crazy, you know, my work is obviously the most
3:12
Speaker 1: my day to day is the business and the clients
3:15
Speaker 1: that I have, and so that is anywhere from some
3:20
Speaker 1: sort of crisis management situation to really working with the
3:26
Speaker 1: clients or connecting with their team and making sure everyone's
3:30
Speaker 1: throwing the book in the same direction, or talking to
3:34
Speaker 1: parents and updating them, you know, updating my team. So
3:39
Speaker 1: it's very client centric throughout most of the day, and
3:43
Speaker 1: then I'm trying to just slide in a little bit
3:46
Speaker 1: of the stuff that I want to do to promote
3:50
Speaker 1: the book, because essentially why I wrote the book in
3:53
Speaker 1: the first place was because I felt like I could
3:55
Speaker 1: only have so many clients, and while we're scaling the
3:59
Speaker 1: business and we have more and more recovery managers that
4:01
Speaker 1: are working with us, I felt like I wanted to
4:05
Speaker 1: get more of the message out. And that's really why
4:07
Speaker 1: I started writing during the pandemic, and so it's important
4:12
Speaker 1: for me to do both essentially.
4:14
Speaker 3: Right right, So, you're talking about your upcoming book, Soul
4:18
Speaker 3: Variety of Land to Heal your Trauma overcome addiction and
4:21
Speaker 3: reconnect with your soul. Talk to us a little bit
4:24
Speaker 3: about what soulbriiety is and why it's important to you.
4:29
Speaker 1: So I studied depth psychology, which is oriented around the unconscious.
4:38
Speaker 1: Other forms of psychology that fall underneath that tradition are
4:43
Speaker 1: young in psychology, archetypal psychology, and so on. When I
4:48
Speaker 1: wrote my dissertation and went back to school and was
4:53
Speaker 1: writing my dissertation, the question that I asked was could
4:57
Speaker 1: doing soul centered work help with long recovery from addiction?
5:02
Speaker 1: And the answer from all of my participants was a
5:06
Speaker 1: resounding yes. But the caveat was they didn't know they
5:10
Speaker 1: were doing it. They didn't realize that they were either
5:14
Speaker 1: caring for their soul or going through a dark knight
5:17
Speaker 1: of the soul. And so it became really clear to
5:23
Speaker 1: me that we needed language around soul work. And so
5:29
Speaker 1: that's where the idea of sobriety came from. And I
5:33
Speaker 1: started obviously doing it on myself and then working with
5:36
Speaker 1: my clients. And it's not meant as a modality or
5:41
Speaker 1: a lifestyle to replace anything else that we use to
5:45
Speaker 1: help with mental illness, addiction, trauma, but to me it
5:51
Speaker 1: felt like more of the thread between everything that sobriety
5:57
Speaker 1: is a way for you personal to have your own
6:01
Speaker 1: unique experience with your own unique soul and be able
6:06
Speaker 1: to do this work by yourself. It's fun to do
6:10
Speaker 1: it with other people, and we have sobriety groups and
6:13
Speaker 1: all of that, but essentially I wanted something that people
6:17
Speaker 1: could drop into as a lifestyle that they could do
6:22
Speaker 1: on their own.
6:23
Speaker 3: You're really focusing mostly on patients and clientele and of course,
6:26
Speaker 3: as you brought on in your network who are navigating past
6:30
Speaker 3: areas of trauma, which is exactly what we are here
6:34
Speaker 3: to talk about today.
6:35
Speaker 2: Why don't we start there?
6:36
Speaker 3: Can you do me a favor and give us a
6:39
Speaker 3: broad definition of what exactly trauma is.
6:43
Speaker 1: So trauma is pretty subjective for each person. So basically,
6:50
Speaker 1: any event or chronic events that happen that take you
6:58
Speaker 1: out of your window of tolerance, that are so overwhelming
7:04
Speaker 1: that you cannot integrate the information in real time. You
7:11
Speaker 1: can't integrate the information because it's unfamiliar, it's never happened,
7:16
Speaker 1: it's overwhelming, we can't process it. And essentially, when something
7:23
Speaker 1: traumatic happens, immediately we go into our reptilian or old
7:28
Speaker 1: brain and we have a survival response, which is either
7:36
Speaker 1: fight or flight or freeze. And if we can't fight
7:41
Speaker 1: back and we can't flee the situation, especially when we're
7:47
Speaker 1: talking about early childhood trauma, you are forced to be
7:52
Speaker 1: frozen or you have to stay in that situation. And
7:57
Speaker 1: so where does that energy that are bodies automatically are
8:04
Speaker 1: hormones send cortisol and adrenaline and all of this, all
8:09
Speaker 1: of this energy throughout our body so that we can
8:12
Speaker 1: bite back our fleet. But where does that go if
8:14
Speaker 1: we're frozen? And essentially what happens is is that energy
8:19
Speaker 1: gets stored on a cellular level in our bodies if
8:23
Speaker 1: we cannot release it, and that will manifest itself and
8:28
Speaker 1: look like many different things anxiety, depression, and will look
8:33
Speaker 1: to anesthesize that feeling because we haven't been able to process.
8:37
Speaker 2: It right now.
8:38
Speaker 3: There are so many different events that can cause trauma,
8:41
Speaker 3: ranging from serious accidents to different types of assault and abuse.
8:46
Speaker 3: Traumatic events may be at worth or different health problems,
8:49
Speaker 3: and then all of those different sources of trauma can
8:53
Speaker 3: lead to as you said, I mean behavioral health issues,
8:57
Speaker 3: chronic physical health conditions.
8:59
Speaker 2: We talked about anxiety and depression.
9:01
Speaker 3: All of us in some way, at some point have
9:05
Speaker 3: navigated various let's call it degrees of trauma. What happens
9:11
Speaker 3: to the person that maybe doesn't fully grasp what they've
9:15
Speaker 3: been through and that they have been dramatically impacted by
9:20
Speaker 3: this trauma.
9:21
Speaker 1: So it's a great question because we look at sometimes
9:24
Speaker 1: what stress and what's toxic stress, and wis trauma? And
9:29
Speaker 1: so trauma can be an acute event, whether that's a
9:34
Speaker 1: car accident or an assault, a one time event. Chronic
9:40
Speaker 1: trauma is something that is going on so fullying in school,
9:48
Speaker 1: maybe a divorced parent and they have to go back
9:50
Speaker 1: and forth, and so that can be traumatic for them.
9:53
Speaker 1: And then there's complex trauma, which is pretty much both
9:57
Speaker 1: of those things combined. And I think we minimize the
10:03
Speaker 1: events if my trauma's not as bad as that person
10:06
Speaker 1: because this, this, and this never happened. But it's not
10:10
Speaker 1: about the event, that's the important part. It's not about
10:14
Speaker 1: the actual experience of the event. It's how we're experiencing
10:20
Speaker 1: life in the present based on that we're stuck in
10:26
Speaker 1: this feeling of the past. So there, if we have triggers,
10:31
Speaker 1: if we find it hard to concentrate, if you know,
10:34
Speaker 1: we haven't moved past it, or rather moved it out
10:38
Speaker 1: of our bodies. And you know, all trauma creates stress,
10:45
Speaker 1: but all stress does not create trauma. So there was
10:50
Speaker 1: a study done in Canada where there was a major
10:55
Speaker 1: car accident on the freeway, like one of the largest
10:57
Speaker 1: car accidents, and they ended up getting some of those
11:01
Speaker 1: people that were in that accident and did some trauma
11:03
Speaker 1: studies on their brains afterwards. And what they would do
11:07
Speaker 1: is they told the story of what happened, and they
11:09
Speaker 1: would see how their brains lit up. And essentially, what
11:12
Speaker 1: we learned from that study is that two people could
11:16
Speaker 1: be in the car and experience the exact same things,
11:20
Speaker 1: see the exact same tragedy unfolding in front of them,
11:24
Speaker 1: experiencing the same fear, and the husband walked away fine,
11:29
Speaker 1: and the woman walked away extremely traumatized. And the reason
11:34
Speaker 1: was because she had had past trauma, she had had
11:38
Speaker 1: childhood trauma, she'd experienced other traumatic moments. That what ends
11:43
Speaker 1: up happening is trauma couples on top of each other.
11:46
Speaker 1: So if you don't end up releasing it, then all
11:50
Speaker 1: of a sudden, one thing happens, and that's the straw
11:53
Speaker 1: that breaks the camel's back, and then you're experiencing these
11:56
Speaker 1: symptoms we talked.
11:57
Speaker 3: About, right, So what I'm here you say is that
12:01
Speaker 3: it can compound together. And you're also really focusing here
12:05
Speaker 3: on the effect of the event, right, So like there's
12:08
Speaker 3: the event, there's then like the experience of the event,
12:11
Speaker 3: and then there's the effect and how we navigate moving forward?
12:15
Speaker 2: Is that right?
12:16
Speaker 1: Correct?
12:16
Speaker 3: Okay, So now that we know that there is this
12:20
Speaker 3: compounding effect, what is someone to do if they want
12:26
Speaker 3: to treat their trauma? And I'm sure like listening to this,
12:28
Speaker 3: someone will be like, well, obviously I go to therapy
12:30
Speaker 3: or something.
12:31
Speaker 2: But it's bigger than that.
12:33
Speaker 1: It is bigger than that. So I think what's interesting,
12:36
Speaker 1: just to back it up, is and this is one
12:39
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I was so drawn to leaving
12:43
Speaker 1: my last career in Hollywood and starting something like recovery
12:47
Speaker 1: Management agency so that people don't know what they don't know.
12:53
Speaker 1: And when I went back to school and started learning
12:55
Speaker 1: about trauma, and here's what I learned. One is, so
13:01
Speaker 1: there's people that study addiction in school, and there's people
13:06
Speaker 1: that study mental health psychology, and then there's different people
13:11
Speaker 1: that go and learn trauma focused modalities and it's not
13:19
Speaker 1: there's not one school for all of that. So if
13:22
Speaker 1: your therapist didn't study trauma focused modalities and understanding of
13:28
Speaker 1: that in doing extra amount of you know, education, then
13:34
Speaker 1: they're not trauma focused. They might be trauma informed and
13:38
Speaker 1: they know the basics of what we just discussed, But
13:42
Speaker 1: what we've learned is that talk therapy doesn't release that
13:48
Speaker 1: energy I spoke of, that that's not the way forward,
13:54
Speaker 1: that it doesn't really help. You can be in talk
13:58
Speaker 1: therapy for twenty years and you're not going to get
14:01
Speaker 1: to the underlying trauma and relieve that feeling that we
14:05
Speaker 1: spoke of. So it's really important that you find a
14:11
Speaker 1: trauma focused, not trauma informed, but trauma focused therapist that
14:17
Speaker 1: really understands the different modalities. Not every therapist is going
14:24
Speaker 1: to be able to do all the different modalities. But
14:28
Speaker 1: like Besil Vanderkolk, who's one of the great founders who
14:32
Speaker 1: talks about trauma all the time. You wrote a book
14:34
Speaker 1: called The Body Keep Score, and so he once said
14:39
Speaker 1: to me, you can't be a one trick pony. You
14:42
Speaker 1: have to at least understand all the different modalities because
14:47
Speaker 1: everybody's going to respond differently. Some people are going to
14:50
Speaker 1: respond to EMDR, which is more of a top down
14:55
Speaker 1: modality that focuses on the brain and the right and
14:58
Speaker 1: left at the same time. And then they're somatic experiencing,
15:03
Speaker 1: which focuses more on the body. And so, depending upon
15:06
Speaker 1: the trauma, depending upon the person, depending upon the way
15:09
Speaker 1: in they're going to need a different set of mortalities.
15:13
Speaker 3: I'd liken it too saying that you have something like
15:17
Speaker 3: a foot injury and proclaiming I'm going to go see
15:21
Speaker 3: a surgeon. Well, like, you're not going to go see
15:23
Speaker 3: a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon or I mean
15:26
Speaker 3: insert other surgeon here.
15:28
Speaker 2: You're going to go see an orthopedic surgeon, you know.
15:30
Speaker 3: So there are going to be different types of therapists,
15:33
Speaker 3: different experts, and the more home than you can get,
15:36
Speaker 3: especially if you've experienced serious trauma, which is really what
15:40
Speaker 3: we're getting at here, the better. Now, again, going back
15:43
Speaker 3: to that concept of it's bigger than just seeking out
15:46
Speaker 3: a specialized therapist. What else can someone do who has
15:51
Speaker 3: experienced a serious trauma?
15:54
Speaker 1: Every trauma, no matter how small, depending on how it's
15:58
Speaker 1: landing with that specific person, is serious. Because we get
16:06
Speaker 1: very stuck in well, I wasn't assaulted or I didn't
16:09
Speaker 1: have this happen, and that doesn't make it any less.
16:13
Speaker 1: So it's important to be looking at am I experiencing
16:17
Speaker 1: symptoms of what may be trauma? Am I having trouble sleeping?
16:23
Speaker 1: Am I having trouble in my interpersonal relationships? Am I
16:28
Speaker 1: having trouble where I feel anxious in certain situations? Am
16:34
Speaker 1: I feeling depressed? Am I isolating? Often we want to
16:38
Speaker 1: go immediately to well, it's just this or it's just that,
16:43
Speaker 1: But it might be that you in fact experience something
16:48
Speaker 1: traumatic and it doesn't even have to just have happened
16:51
Speaker 1: to you. You could have witnessed something happening to somebody
16:54
Speaker 1: else and that can be equally as traumatic. So I
16:59
Speaker 1: think that we throw this word around a lot essentially,
17:02
Speaker 1: which is why we're trying to break it down, But
17:06
Speaker 1: it's really about checking for symptoms. How are we feeling
17:10
Speaker 1: in our body? Is our attention? Can wean lack of attention?
17:16
Speaker 1: All these different things? Are we having pain in our
17:19
Speaker 1: body that we didn't normally have? Do we keep getting sick?
17:23
Speaker 1: All of these different things? So it can be cognitive,
17:26
Speaker 1: it can be physical, like we just discussed. It can
17:29
Speaker 1: be a lot of different things. So I think we
17:31
Speaker 1: really need to like look across and then depending upon
17:37
Speaker 1: I would seek out someone that understands trauma discuss with them.
17:41
Speaker 1: I like to look at you know, the book is
17:45
Speaker 1: told in storytelling because I was ten years sober before
17:50
Speaker 1: I realized that trauma was at the core of my
17:57
Speaker 1: disconnect and my unhappiness, and that even though I had
18:03
Speaker 1: all this time in recovery, I still felt very disconnected
18:10
Speaker 1: from a part of myself. And then I recognize then
18:15
Speaker 1: I learned about trauma, and I thought, oh my god,
18:18
Speaker 1: now I can look back and I can see how
18:20
Speaker 1: these instances, you know, really added up, and some of
18:26
Speaker 1: them more in particular than not, and really start to
18:31
Speaker 1: look at my story and notice where these ruptures were.
18:36
Speaker 1: Just simply notice them with no judgment, and then be
18:40
Speaker 1: able to take that to a therapist or someone that
18:44
Speaker 1: understands and say, hey, here's what happened for me. And
18:50
Speaker 1: it's almost like, you know, people describe trauma sometimes as
18:53
Speaker 1: people dissociate. That's what it looks like to the outside world,
18:57
Speaker 1: but to the inside world, to the soul world, talk
19:00
Speaker 1: about it as soul loss. Essentially, because we have lost
19:06
Speaker 1: this connection to ourselves and to others, and we've lost
19:11
Speaker 1: the ability to make meaning out of our experiences, and
19:18
Speaker 1: we become this fragmented sense of self. And often people
19:25
Speaker 1: will say like, I don't even feel like myself anymore,
19:28
Speaker 1: or I feel like something's missing. These are big concepts
19:33
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, something's missing, and that's a part of you.
19:37
Speaker 1: And so that's worthy of going a little further and
19:41
Speaker 1: becoming curious about what else is lying underneath.
19:49
Speaker 3: Taking a break from today's episode to talk to you
19:52
Speaker 3: about my sponsors. First up, one of Hurdle's newest sponsors
19:55
Speaker 3: at eight Sleep, Like over thirty percent of Americans, I
20:00
Speaker 3: am a super hot sleeper and I have really struggled
20:03
Speaker 3: in the past with not only falling asleep, but staying
20:06
Speaker 3: asleep at night because of temperature. That, my friends, is
20:11
Speaker 3: where the eight Sleep pod cover comes in.
20:14
Speaker 2: It has completely changed the game for me.
20:17
Speaker 3: Now not only does the pod help me sleep comfortably
20:20
Speaker 3: no matter.
20:20
Speaker 2: The outside temperature, but.
20:22
Speaker 3: It also enables me to be in complete control of
20:25
Speaker 3: the temperature inside of my bedroom with its ability to
20:29
Speaker 3: dynamically cool and heat the bed to maintain that optimal
20:33
Speaker 3: sleeping temp from what my body needs. I am also
20:36
Speaker 3: obsessed with a gentle Rise feature, which uses vibration at
20:41
Speaker 3: chest level to wake me up without disrupting my circadian rhythm,
20:46
Speaker 3: making mornings feel a little bit more welcoming and peaceful. Now,
20:51
Speaker 3: if that's not a pivot from my usual iPhone alarm,
20:54
Speaker 3: then I don't know what is.
20:56
Speaker 2: Listen.
20:56
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with this thing, and in my mind, there
20:59
Speaker 3: is no better investment that you can make in the
21:03
Speaker 3: long term then spending smartly on your sleep, which truly
21:08
Speaker 3: impacts every aspect of our day to day.
21:12
Speaker 2: Get in on the action.
21:13
Speaker 3: Grab an ate sleep pod cover for yourself. Head on
21:17
Speaker 3: over to eight sleep dot com slash hurdle. That's e
21:20
Speaker 3: I G H T S L E e P dot
21:24
Speaker 3: com slash hurdle to save one hundred and fifty dollars
21:28
Speaker 3: on the pod at checkout Again, that's eightsleep dot com
21:31
Speaker 3: slash hurdle to get one hundred and fifty dollars off
21:34
Speaker 3: your eight sleep pod today. Also got to give some
21:37
Speaker 3: love to my friends at AG one from Athletic Greens.
21:41
Speaker 3: Athletic Greens has been in my rotation for years now,
21:45
Speaker 3: and it stays in my rotation because it makes me
21:49
Speaker 3: feel like a better me. I shake mine up ice
21:52
Speaker 3: cold every single morning before I sit down in the
21:56
Speaker 3: studio to get to work.
21:57
Speaker 2: And it is not only my symbol.
22:01
Speaker 3: To myself that it's time to get to it, but
22:04
Speaker 3: also it is this gift I give myself every single day.
22:09
Speaker 2: And that's because it's got seventy five whole.
22:11
Speaker 3: Food sourced ingredients including prebiotics, probatics, adaptogens, and superfoods, plus
22:17
Speaker 3: the antioxidant equivalent of twelve servings of fruits and vegetables.
22:23
Speaker 3: I'm telling you my energy levels are better when AG
22:26
Speaker 3: one is a part of my regular routine.
22:28
Speaker 2: My skin looks clearer, I'm not gonna lie to you.
22:32
Speaker 3: And lastly, my digestion just feels better if you know
22:37
Speaker 3: what I mean. If you have not gotten in on
22:39
Speaker 3: the AG one gang just yet, it is about time,
22:44
Speaker 3: especially with the holidays on deck, to take care of
22:47
Speaker 3: you and give yourself the gift of feeling better in
22:51
Speaker 3: your body.
22:51
Speaker 2: Head on over to.
22:52
Speaker 3: Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle today to get a free
22:56
Speaker 3: year supply of Vitamin D as well as five free
23:00
Speaker 3: travel packs with your purchase. Again, that is Athleticgreens dot
23:05
Speaker 3: com slash hurdle to get a year's supply of vitamin
23:08
Speaker 3: D and five free travel packs with your order today.
23:19
Speaker 3: And you said the buzzword of judgment, which I do
23:22
Speaker 3: wan to home in on quickly because I also believe
23:26
Speaker 3: that carries over to the discussion we were having about
23:31
Speaker 3: us maybe blaming, so to speak, how we feel the
23:36
Speaker 3: symptoms we may be experiencing on anything and everything else, right,
23:40
Speaker 3: because we could be going through these processes where we
23:43
Speaker 3: are judging ourselves for not being okay. We're being hard
23:47
Speaker 3: on ourselves for not being okay. But rather, what you're
23:51
Speaker 3: preaching here is not only being upfront with yourself, but
23:55
Speaker 3: also having some grace in that experience, because admitting this
23:59
Speaker 3: that first up really and recognizing what's going on in
24:02
Speaker 3: your body, that is hard, but it's also commendable.
24:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, for me, I
24:09
Speaker 1: was able to start to look at my addiction as
24:14
Speaker 1: a obvious for all the obvious reasons of a disease
24:18
Speaker 1: and all of that. But when I started to look
24:20
Speaker 1: at it as a lack of meaning in my life,
24:24
Speaker 1: it was like a crisis of meaning. I was no
24:27
Speaker 1: longer able to have deep, meaningful experiences there was no depth,
24:33
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I began to sort of grow
24:35
Speaker 1: down and look at those harder questions and become curious
24:40
Speaker 1: about what lies underneath, what lies underneath the symptoms. The
24:45
Speaker 1: symptoms are messages from soul saying, hey, over here, look
24:51
Speaker 1: at me. You know how you can't move your shoulder anymore? Like,
24:56
Speaker 1: let's look at why. We can go get it fixed.
24:58
Speaker 1: We can fix your symptoms all day, but if you
25:01
Speaker 1: can't move your neck, you might want to look at
25:04
Speaker 1: the underlying why what happened? And that's essentially the essence
25:10
Speaker 1: of sobriety and so yeah, it's a meaning making issue
25:16
Speaker 1: and if you can look at it from that, it
25:18
Speaker 1: takes away the judgment, and it takes away it almost
25:25
Speaker 1: is exciting if you will to go and look and
25:30
Speaker 1: figure out, well, why is this happening and what can
25:33
Speaker 1: I do about it? And instead of making you feel powerless,
25:38
Speaker 1: that in fact makes you feel more powerful and more
25:41
Speaker 1: you have a sense of agency over what's going on
25:44
Speaker 1: for you.
25:44
Speaker 3: You know, it made me laugh a little bit thinking
25:47
Speaker 3: about the concept that it's all connected, right, because that
25:50
Speaker 3: happens both in our.
25:51
Speaker 2: Discussion here with trauma.
25:53
Speaker 3: But then like think about how this could apply to
25:55
Speaker 3: a completely different scenario I personally navigating clanter FASCII. Well,
26:00
Speaker 3: that planter fasciitis is a result of stuff that's going
26:03
Speaker 3: on in my knee and up the chain to my
26:05
Speaker 3: hip and then probably in my lower back.
26:07
Speaker 2: Right.
26:07
Speaker 3: So everything that we do, every single component here has
26:13
Speaker 3: to do, it's intertwined, right, And so the best thing
26:16
Speaker 3: we can do is take a step back and look
26:19
Speaker 3: holistically at what's going on, and then again, as we said,
26:22
Speaker 3: have that grease to identify the thing or the patterns,
26:26
Speaker 3: and then move forward with that knowledge to take the
26:28
Speaker 3: best next step for each of us. And I think
26:31
Speaker 3: that's an important thing to touch on next is that
26:33
Speaker 3: although there are these general tips here that we're offering
26:37
Speaker 3: up on speaking to a trauma informed therapist and perhaps
26:41
Speaker 3: doing this self inventory and whatnot, everybody is going to
26:45
Speaker 3: be different. So just because one path of action works
26:48
Speaker 3: for one individual, it doesn't mean that that won't work
26:51
Speaker 3: for you, but it might work for you in a
26:53
Speaker 3: different amount of time or with a different amount of frequency.
26:57
Speaker 1: Stuff like that, Yeah, exactly. And also sometimes when we're
27:02
Speaker 1: talking about child let's just talk about childhood trauma for
27:05
Speaker 1: a second. Which is different in the sense that things
27:09
Speaker 1: could have happened pre verbal or even at a very
27:13
Speaker 1: young age. So you experience something when you're four, but
27:18
Speaker 1: you don't have language to describe it. So even when
27:22
Speaker 1: you're in therapy talk therapy, you don't have the language
27:28
Speaker 1: to be able to describe how it felt in the
27:30
Speaker 1: present because you were four when it happened, and so
27:34
Speaker 1: you didn't register it in the same kind of way.
27:38
Speaker 1: And there's an a study ACE, which is adverse childhood
27:44
Speaker 1: Experiences that you can take online and see how many
27:48
Speaker 1: of those you may have. But it's looking for was
27:52
Speaker 1: there an unavailable parent, was there a secure attachment? Were
27:57
Speaker 1: you able to really be guided and have a safe
28:03
Speaker 1: and secure place to get your needs met? And this
28:07
Speaker 1: can happen in the most loveliest of homes. I mean,
28:10
Speaker 1: my parents were extremely loving, but we didn't necessarily talk
28:16
Speaker 1: about things as they arose, and so that made me
28:21
Speaker 1: feel unsafe and that led to some of the underlying
28:26
Speaker 1: narratives and these post it notes on my soul if
28:29
Speaker 1: you will of oh, well, there must be something wrong
28:32
Speaker 1: with you, or you're not good enough, or you're unlovable,
28:36
Speaker 1: and that is just something that we grow up with
28:41
Speaker 1: and then we have these narratives and we have this
28:43
Speaker 1: belief system. And so I think also going back and
28:48
Speaker 1: looking at our childhood and there's you know, there's a
28:51
Speaker 1: practice called internal family systems, which is really an excellent
28:55
Speaker 1: practice also for trauma, and we really look at these
29:00
Speaker 1: different parts of ourselves. And sobriety takes it even further
29:05
Speaker 1: in really naming these parts of ourselves and becoming really
29:09
Speaker 1: autonomous and so on and persona buying them. But it's all,
29:14
Speaker 1: it's all connected. It's all so important. And I think
29:18
Speaker 1: when we think about creating depth as a human being
29:24
Speaker 1: and depth as a person and wanting to be more
29:28
Speaker 1: fulfilled and find a life filled with meaning and purpose,
29:33
Speaker 1: this is the way we do it. We get curious
29:36
Speaker 1: and we go look.
29:39
Speaker 3: Right, We get curious and we go look. So moving forward,
29:42
Speaker 3: then we've talked about a few ways to address this
29:46
Speaker 3: trauma practically in the day to day outside of talking
29:50
Speaker 3: to someone about what's going on in your life. Are
29:52
Speaker 3: there any self care practices that you would recommend or
29:55
Speaker 3: things that we can do on our own that could
29:57
Speaker 3: help the circumstance.
30:01
Speaker 1: Yes, So it's about when you're stuck in an experience
30:07
Speaker 1: that you're being triggered by. Essentially you're just regulated, so
30:14
Speaker 1: you're maybe in that back part of your brain. So
30:16
Speaker 1: there's a couple of ways to get yourself back into
30:19
Speaker 1: that thinking part of our brain. One of them is
30:24
Speaker 1: to really focus on your senses. So if you just
30:28
Speaker 1: take a moment and you sit down and you look
30:34
Speaker 1: at a couple of different things, and you really focus
30:37
Speaker 1: on four or five things that are around and you
30:40
Speaker 1: really look at them, like, I'm looking at this coup
30:43
Speaker 1: and now I'm noticing it, and I'm thinking about how
30:46
Speaker 1: it might be an all of these different things. Simple,
30:49
Speaker 1: but just get in that headspace of what do I
30:51
Speaker 1: see and really look at it, and then close your eyes,
30:55
Speaker 1: and what do I hear? And might hear birds and
30:58
Speaker 1: might hear whatever it is you? And then you go
31:01
Speaker 1: to what do I taste in my mouth right now?
31:06
Speaker 1: And what do I feel on my body? Feel my clothes,
31:09
Speaker 1: I feel this itchy sweater I'm wearing, I feel the
31:13
Speaker 1: warm air on me, and really really ground yourself in
31:17
Speaker 1: these senses and that will bring you back to a
31:23
Speaker 1: place of regulation into the front of your brain. This
31:26
Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex. Breathing is also an excellent way to bring
31:31
Speaker 1: yourself back. If we often all say to my clients,
31:36
Speaker 1: take a deep breath in for four accounts through your nose,
31:40
Speaker 1: fold it and then let it out through your mouth
31:43
Speaker 1: for four accounts. You can do three counts or two
31:46
Speaker 1: counts of whatever's comfortable for you. Call that box breathing.
31:50
Speaker 1: And if you do that a couple of times, that
31:53
Speaker 1: can also bring you back to a sense of regulation.
31:55
Speaker 1: So those are two easy things that you can do.
31:59
Speaker 1: Going for a walk and simply noticing what's around you,
32:04
Speaker 1: walking meditations. You don't feel comfortable sitting there and meditating,
32:08
Speaker 1: just get out and walk into nature. There's a very
32:12
Speaker 1: relaxing feeling about that. But again, you have to do
32:15
Speaker 1: what's going to feel comfortable in your own body because
32:19
Speaker 1: we don't know what your previous experience was.
32:22
Speaker 3: Right, and you just said that buzzword nature. Why is
32:26
Speaker 3: involving nature in this mindfulness practice something that can be beneficial.
32:30
Speaker 1: Nature reminds us that we're not in charge. Right. You
32:37
Speaker 1: can walk outside and you get a sense, whether you
32:40
Speaker 1: believe or not, that there's something greater and bigger than ourselves.
32:46
Speaker 1: There's something very relaxing about that. I tell a story
32:52
Speaker 1: in the book where I was going through a really
32:55
Speaker 1: traumatic event, and outside my window where I lived at
33:00
Speaker 1: the time, there was a frozen pond. And even with
33:06
Speaker 1: all my knowledge and everything that I had learned and
33:09
Speaker 1: knowing that I could point to it and go, trauma, trauma,
33:11
Speaker 1: this is what's happening. This was happening in my brain,
33:13
Speaker 1: this is I still had to go through the process
33:17
Speaker 1: like anybody else, of feeling it and being in that
33:22
Speaker 1: what I call dark knight of the soul. And so
33:25
Speaker 1: every day I would wake up and I would open
33:27
Speaker 1: the curtains and I would see the pond, and I knew,
33:33
Speaker 1: without a shadow of the doubt that that pond, even
33:36
Speaker 1: though it was completely frozen because it was the dead
33:39
Speaker 1: of winter and there were no sense of life on
33:42
Speaker 1: it whatsoever, an no ducks, nothing, that in time it
33:48
Speaker 1: would begin to melt and life would come back. And
33:52
Speaker 1: so I just went with, you know what, I can
33:56
Speaker 1: trust that that's going to happen there, and so that
33:58
Speaker 1: will hopefully happened for me as well. And every morning
34:02
Speaker 1: I would open the drapes and go, nope, not today,
34:04
Speaker 1: we're still prosing. And eventually, all of a sudden a
34:09
Speaker 1: duck would have here, and I was like, Okay, here
34:12
Speaker 1: we go, here we go, maybe I'm going to start
34:15
Speaker 1: to fall out.
34:16
Speaker 2: Of it right right?
34:18
Speaker 3: What a metaphor there, And to your point here, I
34:21
Speaker 3: mean spending time in nature. Research shows that it really
34:25
Speaker 3: can help with mental health problems such as anxiety and depression,
34:28
Speaker 3: and it's also been linked to a host of other
34:31
Speaker 3: benefits including improved attention, lower stress, better mood. Aka yeah,
34:38
Speaker 3: not just looking at a frozen pond can be beneficial
34:40
Speaker 3: for you, but just getting outside and taking a deep breath.
34:43
Speaker 3: And I love that everything that you were saying here
34:45
Speaker 3: really just is boasting the benefit of mindfulness, no matter
34:50
Speaker 3: what that looks like to you.
34:51
Speaker 2: If breathwork feels good to you, do breathwork.
34:54
Speaker 3: If doing a guided meditation feels good to you, do
34:58
Speaker 3: a guided meditation. If just doing the box breath as
35:01
Speaker 3: you close your eyes sitting in your desk chair is
35:03
Speaker 3: like the thing that gets you to feel at home
35:05
Speaker 3: in your body, then do the box breath in your
35:07
Speaker 3: office chair.
35:08
Speaker 1: You know.
35:08
Speaker 3: So again, individualized and having Greece with yourself is the
35:12
Speaker 3: key to developing a practice that helps you feel better.
35:17
Speaker 1: Exactly. And another great way to work through some trauma
35:22
Speaker 1: is by moving your body, So exercise. If you're not
35:27
Speaker 1: an exercise person, just even I do this, I'll just
35:31
Speaker 1: get up and I'll just shake it all out, shake
35:34
Speaker 1: off the day, shake off the experience. You might want
35:37
Speaker 1: to let out a big yell. Anything to move the
35:41
Speaker 1: energy through.
35:41
Speaker 2: You, Anything to move the energy through you.
35:46
Speaker 3: Is there anything else that we should chat on before
35:48
Speaker 3: I let you go? When it comes to navigating trauma,
35:52
Speaker 3: moving through trauma, and addressing it on your own terms.
35:56
Speaker 1: I think the most important thing when we both touch
35:58
Speaker 1: on it, but it's worth repeating, is you shouldn't judge
36:03
Speaker 1: the trauma, and you shouldn't judge yourself, and that The
36:09
Speaker 1: thing about trauma work is you can heal from it.
36:13
Speaker 1: You can not change the experience that you might have had,
36:17
Speaker 1: but you can definitely change the experience that you're having
36:21
Speaker 1: in the present, and you definitely can find a peaceful way.
36:26
Speaker 1: There is a lot of help out there, and it's
36:29
Speaker 1: not something that you have to live with. I think
36:32
Speaker 1: it goes misdiagnosed if you will for other things, because
36:37
Speaker 1: everyone's looking at symptoms, and that's why I think it's
36:41
Speaker 1: important to talk about and raise awareness so that people
36:44
Speaker 1: can become their own health advocate and their own healer
36:49
Speaker 1: and really be able to say, hey, what about this
36:51
Speaker 1: experience that I had and I think it might be
36:55
Speaker 1: hindering my future?
36:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, so important. So glad that you're able to have
37:02
Speaker 3: this combo. Doctor Hallerman. Tell us how do the hurdlers
37:06
Speaker 3: follow along with you? How do they keep up with you?
37:08
Speaker 3: Give us your details.
37:11
Speaker 1: Well, hurdlers, you can find me on Instagram at d
37:16
Speaker 1: R Elisa Hallerman so d R E l I S
37:20
Speaker 1: A h A L L e R m A N.
37:24
Speaker 1: You can also find help on our website which is
37:28
Speaker 1: Dr Hallerman doctor Hallerman dot com. And yeah, I hope
37:35
Speaker 1: to connect with all of you.
37:37
Speaker 2: Love it.
37:38
Speaker 3: I'm over at Emily a Body and at Hurdle Podcast
37:41
Speaker 3: another Hurdle Conquered.
37:43
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time