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Transcript

Guarding Your Time · The Reformatory

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you got for me?
0:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
0:32
[SPEAKER_00]: As long as I'm not for me, we could have had the benediction right there, that was so good.
0:36
[SPEAKER_02]: What's going on everyone and welcome to the reformatory, the podcast for the local church and by the local church and we are your local churchmen.
0:43
[SPEAKER_02]: My name is Josh and I'm here as always with the captain, Jack, Barry, Jack, my friend, how has the week been?
0:51
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been good, do Ben hit the gym, been focusing on the healths, almost down, almost at 8 pounds down.
1:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So again, it's the beginning of the month.
1:05
[SPEAKER_03]: So there you go, out of bounds, that away.
1:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's awesome.
1:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, yeah, we're both kind of doing the same thing.
1:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So it just means life sucks, but in a good way and that's fine.
1:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not I'm not I'm not sucking that bad.
1:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's say that I'm actually like yeah my my personal trainer like he's really good at my diet and stuff like that.
1:27
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, hey, if you're following these things, it's like you're going to be good.
1:31
[SPEAKER_03]: So
1:32
[SPEAKER_03]: don't worry about it keep going so yeah it's consistency that's what yeah all right that's how works yeah I do have I do have an all-day trip tomorrow to Yakima and back again so okay that's going to be how that's going to be a doozy so after we're recording this episode I got to pick up my rental car so okay yeah gross gross man yeah Yakima hey you know
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Have fun.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I was born in Yakima.
2:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, yeah, you're going home, man.
2:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, going home, white trash.
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about a trash the center white trash again.
2:12
[SPEAKER_03]: The Palm Springs of Washington, Josh.
2:15
[SPEAKER_03]: The B.O.S.R.
2:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, do you remember that?
2:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, remember that sign?
2:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you remember that sign?
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Were they used to do?
2:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God.
2:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.
2:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
2:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to take it down because no one in the right mind would actually believe that.
2:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And we would always run it.
2:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Does Palm Springs in California say that it's the Yakima of California?
2:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, no.
2:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.
2:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Palm Springs in that like, I mean, they have drugs.
2:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they've got ganks and drugs.
2:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So in that way, sure.
2:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's the Palm Springs.
2:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
2:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't say how it was the Palm Springs.
2:51
[SPEAKER_02]: We just said that.
2:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
2:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my goodness.
2:56
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, Jack, we've got some fun things to cover today, but as always, we would be remiss if we do not hit everyone's favorite segment.
3:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't forget to eat your instant grams.
3:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And over the time you've all been waiting for, there are a homemade Drey podcast presents.
3:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't forget to eat your instant grams with your host, Josh Loftus, and Jack Mary.
3:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And remember kids, it's not heresy if you're a
3:25
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, don't forget to eat your Instagrams and Remarkets, it's not here.
3:28
[SPEAKER_02]: See, if you believe it hard enough, that is how it works.
3:31
[SPEAKER_02]: My friends, Jack, my friend.
3:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got some funny ones for you today.
3:34
[SPEAKER_02]: This one, this one's pretty great.
3:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to let this one ride.
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: This one, this was captured at a worship service in which the pastor was really, really trying, really trying his best to
3:53
[SPEAKER_02]: for this Holy Spirit to work because we all know the Holy Spirit needs us to do that in order for him to do his work.
4:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And that moment was foiled by one of the musicians and the pastor here, if that's what you want to call him, was not content to let it go.
4:13
[SPEAKER_01]: See, the things that Jesus can do in your life.
4:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I want you to lift one hand up real quick, more pray.
4:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I see you Ready go off the rooms.
4:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go sit up.
4:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go sit up Lift your hand.
4:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That's you.
4:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw someone's hand lift your hand Ready get off the drums.
4:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it done?
4:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw your hand.
4:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there anyone else while are you just ready get off the drums right now?
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not moving to Not only is holding firm Steady right there, right there Go in the corner can be 20 push-ups and then about to see If that's you, well, Eddie just run your first virtual moment Well, I have got it I close.
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought someone got shot
5:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I want you to, I saw someone lift her hand.
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't let Eddie ruin the moment for you.
5:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you raise your hands?
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you come to the front right now?
5:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Dude, free my man, Eddie.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, dude, dude, poor Eddie.
5:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, throwing Eddie under the bus because somebody didn't get saved.
5:27
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a wild day.
5:28
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a wild day.
5:30
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a drisco-esque level of confrontation right there, dude.
5:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He's Eddie accidentally drops the drumstick on the stair.
5:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And this guy does not let it forget.
5:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Bro.
5:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Eddie, get off Eddie.
5:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm serious.
5:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Go in the corner.
5:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Give me 20 pushups and sit and happen.
5:49
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you his dad?
5:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they get it out of here.
5:53
[SPEAKER_02]: If if if if if if if if if Eddie ruin your spirit your first spiritual moment race your such such a bushling who do do do do any went home that day and he's like I do like I'm I'm I'm I'm the devil
6:11
[SPEAKER_02]: the Satan used me tonight, mama.
6:16
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
6:18
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
6:18
[SPEAKER_02]: This one, uh, this one's not so much, um, this one's not so much bad.
6:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Is then I thought it was, I thought it was actually a solid point, a great point.
6:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I actually really enjoyed it.
6:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, this will kind of lead into some of the stuff that that that we're going to talk about today.
6:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And before you leave that church talking about, I'm not being fed, I'm not being fed over there.
6:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's time for you to start helping serve the meal.
6:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not done.
6:52
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that's not how this works.
6:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was a great point.
6:59
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not how this works, guys.
7:02
[SPEAKER_02]: That was terrible.
7:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's time for you to start serving the meal.
7:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's the thing.
7:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what's an interesting thing.
7:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that that, although it's...
7:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Although...
7:12
[SPEAKER_02]: That's such a job.
7:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's I think there is I think there is room for this conversation on both sides of this Okay, and then I think this is this is the interesting part of the conversation is that you have on one side Individuals who
7:33
[SPEAKER_02]: do struggle with simply being takers in church and don't want to commit to serving the body.
7:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have people on the other side who genuinely need care and support and to be fed in a season where
7:54
[SPEAKER_02]: the church just is not, is not providing that, right?
7:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think context matters here where you had, let's say you have a place like Mars Hill where it was very much like you put your life, you know, on the altar, you make sacrifices for the church, you just, but then when it comes time to actually be invested in or needing some care, needing some port, it's not there.
8:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
8:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, that's a real thing.
8:24
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a real thing.
8:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But on the flip side, there's also churches and individuals because of the very individualistic mentality that we have today, there's individuals that engage in church.
8:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say with a very self-focused mentality.
8:48
[SPEAKER_02]: like how the services structured, the events or the quote unquote programs that the church has, the relationship with fellow brothers and sisters, their relationship with the elders, and they view it through a lens of
9:09
[SPEAKER_02]: How is this benefiting me?
9:12
[SPEAKER_02]: How is this feeding me?
9:13
[SPEAKER_02]: How am I getting what I need?
9:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's not a whole lot of reciprocation.
9:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And this I think we run into perhaps a lot more in some of the circles that,
9:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, it's probably both.
9:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, I don't want to quantify it.
9:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably, it's, it's probably half and half.
9:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that there is something to be said for both these sides of the arguments.
9:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think Jack and I have both experienced both of these, and I think the context matters.
9:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I look at it definitely from a pastoral position in that, okay, I know the level of care that I'm giving to the church.
9:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I know the level of care that my fellow elders are giving to the church.
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: The reality is, and this is what I think is important to talk about, and why, you know, tongue and cheek, that video kind of sparks the sparks of conversation.
10:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
10:06
[SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be some people where no matter what you do, it's not enough.
10:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's just a reality of ministry.
10:14
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the reality of being in relationships in the local church.
10:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a hard thing to swallow and deal with sometimes.
10:22
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is true.
10:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that Jack and I have both run into those types of people where, yeah, no matter how much you care, how much time you give, how much, you make yourself available at the end of the day, it's not enough for those people.
10:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a, that's a hard pill to swallow, especially when you have kind of made your life about serving those in your local church, you know what I'm saying?
10:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think from a serving standpoint and more of a deacon side of the coin, I will say this in Marcel, there was an expectation if you are to be known in the church, you will serve.
11:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
11:12
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not right.
11:13
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just not right folks.
11:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Like for you to be known in the church, like you just need to come.
11:20
[SPEAKER_03]: and then just start showing up, really.
11:23
[SPEAKER_03]: That's really.
11:25
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some people who aren't in a season of life where serving would be good for them, or good for the church.
11:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
11:30
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and that carried over to into when the noir soul churches went independent, I think, as well, too.
11:38
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of them felt that way.
11:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And some of them bucked back against that culture, but some of them.
11:44
[SPEAKER_03]: But in order for you to be known, you have to serve, right?
11:50
[SPEAKER_03]: The bare minimum of you being known in a local church is you showing up and coming to Lord's Day service.
11:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's how you should be known.
12:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And then from there, relationships should start taking hold.
12:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think Josh and I live in a particularly different culture than the rest of the United States.
12:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I think in the Pacific Northwest,
12:14
[SPEAKER_03]: we're way more introverted and not willing to have those relationships or seek out those people because just that's what our culture here kind of festers if festers this like Seattle frees we're like you don't say anything to anybody you don't talk to people you don't say hello you don't be friendly stuff like that so yeah I think that's part of it but I also think that
12:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Once you become a committed member of your local church, there needs to be a serving rhythm.
12:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And you can figure that out.
12:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, for us, like the bars pretty low at my local church.
12:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Once a month, if you're serving once a month, that's great.
12:53
[SPEAKER_03]: For some of us who are like, hey,
12:56
[SPEAKER_03]: like we've been through leadership training, we've done all this stuff, dude, sometimes I'll be serving communion like this last Lord's Day.
13:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I, we didn't have an extra security guy.
13:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just like, well, my, my son, my wife stayed home because my son was sick.
13:14
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, whatever, I'll be security then.
13:16
[SPEAKER_03]: So I got to, so I got to, I got to be on the security team, plus I got to read the scripture and pray right before the sermon, plus I got to serve communion.
13:26
[SPEAKER_03]: to me that's not that difficult because I know that and that's really what that's honestly in my opinion that's how I've that's how I do ministry in a certain dynamic and that doesn't really burn me out.
13:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I do get days off.
13:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I do get Lord's days off.
13:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Believe me, I do.
13:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a rest component to that, but yeah, there's sometimes where people need to step up and if you haven't been in those type of situations like you're not going to be looked at as like, oh, that's somebody that I can go to, but once you become a member of your local church like you should want to chip in and do stuff for your local church because really like that's your investment.
14:15
[SPEAKER_03]: that's your deposit into the kingdom really.
14:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you aren't serving in that capacity, that's a little bit troubling and you're just kind of on the sideline.
14:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, there's a difference, I think, in seasons of life too.
14:32
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a lot of older folks sometimes to where they're at their stage of their life, where their mobility is shot, or they just can't serve in certain capacities.
14:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So I totally get that.
14:44
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you're 30 in below, if you're 30 years old in below,
14:53
[SPEAKER_03]: You can do stuff grab some chairs.
14:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you got it.
14:56
[SPEAKER_03]: You got energy.
14:57
[SPEAKER_03]: We're a setup.
14:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you guys are set up and tear down, right.
15:01
[SPEAKER_03]: We're set up.
15:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're set up and tear down to you.
15:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like the easiest way, the easiest way.
15:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, the easiest way to be known and to establish relationships on our local church.
15:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Just volunteer for a set up tear down day.
15:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And you'll start to cultivate relationships with like five different guys in the church.
15:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And there you go.
15:22
[SPEAKER_03]: You've already started to bridge into community.
15:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not where.
15:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, where a lot of things are now, like I said, that doesn't that doesn't excuse.
15:34
[SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't mean like, well, you're serving and you get to be known during serving.
15:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, yeah, but that doesn't excuse the facts.
15:42
[SPEAKER_03]: that your bare minimum on Sunday should just be shown up to Lord Zacervis.
15:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Fellowshiping, I feel like every Sunday in my mind, at least, I had this epiphany a while ago.
15:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying it's a direct one for one correlation, but it feels like every time, like I go to a Lord's Day service now, it feels like a component of being on a sports team again.
16:08
[SPEAKER_03]: like there's a camaraderie that you have.
16:10
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a there's a development of relationship that you have and care for people.
16:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I don't know for me that's kind of like it, but I mean, it's more than that.
16:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I can only liken it to that because that's something familiar that I know.
16:28
[SPEAKER_03]: But
16:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just sure.
16:30
[SPEAKER_03]: But to say, flippantly, if you aren't being served, you were the one that should be serving the meal, it's like, all right, hold up.
16:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
16:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I guess I looked at that, I guess I looked at that video a little differently.
16:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess, yeah, in my mind, I was had, I mean, here's the thing, you always have specific situations in your head, right?
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And when she said that, I was like, actually, in the context that I find myself, that's a great point.
16:57
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, just kind of out of context, I can see how that video would rough some people were wrong.
17:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I just like how sassy she said it.
17:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But the reality is, yeah, just like you're saying, when we're thinking about serving in the local church and you're encouraging people to serve in the local church.
17:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You got to understand context.
17:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You got to understand people's new, what situation you got has them in, because if someone's new in the local church, right?
17:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know them, they don't know us.
17:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to be a beneficial thing for them to be serving right now.
17:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's take some time.
17:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get to know each other.
17:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's have some relationships formed and some trust built.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we can explore that, right?
17:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes the person is a member, and they are in a season where they're just super busy, and super tired.
17:41
[SPEAKER_02]: They've got a lot going on.
17:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's take a break, right?
17:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not a failure.
17:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just a reality of where the Lord has you.
17:49
[SPEAKER_02]: The context that is hard to deal with is the one that I brought up at the beginning, where you're going to have individuals in your church that have very high expectations of you as elders,
18:09
[SPEAKER_02]: and often what I have found more than not nine times out of ten, those expectations are not met with the same level of service that those expectations desire from other people.
18:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, I've been in many situations in ministry where you pour into somebody, you invest into somebody
18:32
[SPEAKER_02]: you give of your time right and all and all these good things all the things that you're supposed to do right and you do it because you care about the person but then the accusations like something will happen either you'll preach something they don't like or you'll have you'll have a busy season yourself and you can't get together alright something always happens that create some sort of break in that momentum breaking that schedule
19:00
[SPEAKER_02]: and then the accusation start coming that, you know, they're not getting fed, they're not getting poured into, they're not getting disabled.
19:07
[SPEAKER_02]: They have a concern of, you know, this and this that, you know, and, and your left scratching your head like, huh.
19:15
[SPEAKER_02]: that is not at all how I assessed this situation.
19:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So in that, and that's a common thing, and I'm sure anyone who's been in ministry for any amount of time has run across those individuals that, you know, for lack of, you know, I'm not trying to be, I'm not trying to be ungracious, right?
19:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess a little like just a little behind the scenes, like shop talk, I guess.
19:44
[SPEAKER_02]: you have individuals in your church that will lead you time.
19:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just a fact, right?
19:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Now how we deal with that and how we respond to that is important, right?
20:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have to make sure that we do it biblically.
20:03
[SPEAKER_02]: What I have found often helps is that you have conversations with that individual asking them questions about
20:11
[SPEAKER_02]: the expectations that they have because if those accusations are getting hurled at you, you know, you're not spending enough time.
20:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not feeling fed.
20:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not feeling like I'm being disabled, right?
20:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Like all of the all the, all the ones that you'll get time to ask some questions.
20:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, okay, if you're not feeling that, you know, like, what are your expectations of what disciples should look like?
20:33
[SPEAKER_02]: When you think about, you know, care from a pastor, what does that look like in your
20:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And more often than not, you're going to find some very unrealistic expectations about what care or discipleship looks like for that individual.
20:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
20:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And whether that is just them being overly, you know, overly meaty, maybe they've had bad expectations taught to them in past churches, right?
21:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they've come from a bad, a bad situation and they're kind of, you know, pendulum swing to the to the other side.
21:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But asking questions, figuring out what those expectations are and then shepherding through those expectations is the big key because if I see that you're going to have unrealistic expectations, those aren't going to go away unless we address those biblically.
21:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
21:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, okay, why do you have those expectations, you know, what do you think that expectation is realistic?
21:34
[SPEAKER_02]: If I were to have that expectation with every member in my church or everyone that came through the doors, how is that, like, how how does that work out, right?
21:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of the day, you end up seeing, so like, well, they want the expectation for them, but not a whole lot of other people, right?
21:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, that's not every case.
21:54
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have individuals
21:56
[SPEAKER_02]: who are either going through something, you know, are in a stage of life where this requires that are going to be very meaty, very meaty.
22:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's okay.
22:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Being meaty in and of itself is not a bad thing, right?
22:12
[SPEAKER_02]: We meet those needs and we come along those people, we come alongside those people, right?
22:18
[SPEAKER_02]: When those times call for it, but the one that I'm specifically
22:26
[SPEAKER_02]: just have an unhealthy expectation of what care looks like in the local church, you're going to have to deal with those because those are going to spread to the elders those are going to spread to their expectations on what fellowship looks like to their to the other members right.
22:55
[SPEAKER_02]: we should not be viewing the local church primarily as what do we get out of it, right?
23:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where I agree with the sentiment of that lady at the beginning is, if that's your entire sentiment and your entire outlook to the local church,
23:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a problem and that's going to create problems because maybe instead of thinking primarily what am I getting out of the local church, you should be thinking, what can I put into the local church?
23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: How can I be serving?
23:23
[SPEAKER_02]: How can I be investing?
23:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Because what I have found personally is that one of the greatest remedies to self-focusedness is service.
23:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you're struggling with being self-focused in one way or another, there's nothing it will cure that faster than serving other people.
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And often I have found the things that I knew that I needed as an individual were met and solved as I was pressing into the local church to serve.
23:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not that you don't, you know, in times where you need some special care and some special, you know, one on one time with a pastor, that's totally appropriate, absolutely.
24:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But be plugged in, be plugged in because it's the whole body of believers that covenant together to care for one another, right?
24:12
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one of the,
24:13
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that we preach about being reformed Baptists is that the pastors are members first.
24:19
[SPEAKER_02]: We're members of the same church.
24:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're all on that same level in that respect.
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And that we're all called to invest in one another and encourage one another and be there for one another.
24:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just some thoughts.
24:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just an interesting, interesting takeaways is you look at the different dynamics of some members in the church.
24:39
[SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting too.
24:40
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're going through, we start off like a, we took a break from John, they asked, well, John, and we're going through actually second Corinthians.
24:51
[SPEAKER_03]: chapter 8 and it talks about the generosity of the Macedonian church.
24:56
[SPEAKER_03]: These people were the poorest of the poor when it comes to churches and they were still given money.
25:04
[SPEAKER_03]: to the offering in Jerusalem and Paul talks about that and we're talking about what is generosity mean during the series as we go through that text and as we look at it from different angles and the biggest thing that one of my pastors talked about on the Lord's day last Sunday was just you're not going to have and you're not going to develop.
25:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Generosity or be generous unless you have margin in your life.
25:32
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't have margin in your life You're not gonna and that goes for anything if you don't have margin in your finances Maybe if you don't have margin just to give up yourself a big time.
25:42
[SPEAKER_02]: What does fake fake butter have to do?
25:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry That's margarine.
25:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry You're killing me.
25:52
[SPEAKER_03]: You should just end.
25:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry
25:55
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just end the episode.
25:56
[SPEAKER_03]: It's needs to be old yellow.
25:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Josh needs to be taken out.
25:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So you put it back on, put a button down now.
26:02
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my bad.
26:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, margin margin is the key to it, margin.
26:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Not margin, but margin, if you don't have margin in that, then you're not going to cultivate that.
26:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Or you're not going to take the risk in order to cultivate that more.
26:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
26:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
26:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
26:22
[SPEAKER_02]: That was my last one.
26:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
26:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, no, I think I think that's a good thought, right?
26:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we got to be
26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: We gotta be open-handed in our care, but also not so open-handed that you burn yourself out.
26:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And you cater to unhelpful or unbiblical expectations of people within your church, right?
26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Part of shepherding is having those hard conversations.
26:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So you gotta discern, okay, is this person truly in a stage where they need some extra care, they need some extra attention, right?
26:55
[SPEAKER_02]: This sheep is hurting.
26:59
[SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna, we're gonna hold this person a little longer than we would someone else, right?
27:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That's absolutely appropriate and there are situations where that is much needed.
27:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey, we're gonna meet on a weekly basis and until we work through these things.
27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: That's different than the individual who has an unrealistic expectation of care and believes that they are owed some sort of, you know, certain amount of meetings because that's what pastors do, right?
27:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, well, sometimes sometimes, you know, and if you're in a situation where that calls for that, absolutely, that's what we will do, but also you,
27:38
[SPEAKER_02]: need to have realistic expectations of what it looks like to be fed in the local church and what it looks like to, you know, help serve the male.
27:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is that is important to keep those things in balance.
27:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
27:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a little interesting riff-up off the off the cuff there.
27:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack and I, uh, uh, uh, uh, we, we, uh, talk today or like, man, like our topic list is kind of low, uh, and I'm like, uh, I've got this video.
28:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to spark a good convo, uh, but something that we would like to do, uh, for all listeners, anybody who is listening to this, if you have questions, for us, uh, anything that you would like us to discuss or talk about,
28:24
[SPEAKER_02]: a local church related, a ministry related and, you know, honestly, anything.
28:29
[SPEAKER_02]: We would love to do a little male, like grab bag, a little male, male app.
28:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Whether that be actual, actual messages that you send us, you can send us audio.
28:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You can send us audio messages, we can figure out a way to play those on here.
28:45
[SPEAKER_02]: We would love to hear from our listeners and hear about some things that you would like us to discuss any questions or comments that you have, we would love to do an app on that.
28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be a lot of fun for us, so make sure to be thinking up those and send us what you got.
29:02
[SPEAKER_02]: We would love to do an episode where we answer some questions and have some good discussion that way.
29:09
[SPEAKER_02]: want to get us out of here.
29:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, if you appreciate Josh and I is riffing sometimes that you actually lead into to good and prosperous discussions about the local church and a profitable profitable, prosperous discussions about the local church and serving in your local church.
29:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, you can follow us on the sociables and you know, if you follow us on the
29:38
[SPEAKER_03]: because we'll be chucked with our marshmallow, even a little sprinkle of heresy.
29:41
[SPEAKER_03]: You can hit that voice record button and send us a little message that way to us at the reformatory, just at reformatory pod, and follow us on the Facebook as well too, at the same tag, and sociable, firmly known as Twitter X.
29:59
[SPEAKER_03]: All at those tags at reformatory pod.
30:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Like Josh said, leave a comment, a question.
30:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you're like trying to figure out, hey, how do I go about this certain situation in my local church?
30:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Keep it a little bit more on the vague side, and we can talk it through on.
30:15
[SPEAKER_02]: No gossip.
30:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, no gossip.
30:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Call out gossip right then and then.
30:19
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to, we would love to kind of like, come alongside you all, not as your pastors, but as fellow brothers and Christ.
30:28
[SPEAKER_03]: to kind of develop and put a little bit more meat on that bone to give you more wisdom.
30:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
30:34
[SPEAKER_03]: In the direction.
30:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I was looking where you should go in that.
30:36
[SPEAKER_03]: So Josh, you could just have a lovely people how they might support us for their gear in our endeavors.
30:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
30:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, ladies and gentlemen, you can support us by heading over to YouTube.
30:46
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to watch this as well, listen to it.
30:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes the Instagrams a lot more fun for sure.
30:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, comment, subscribe, hit the little bell for notifications.
30:54
[SPEAKER_02]: As you can say, would greatly appreciate that.
30:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Love you to share this episode with a friend, share the reformatory around.
30:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be really cool to hear some new listeners join the fold.
31:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be pretty great if you chose to do that.
31:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You can leave us a rating and a review on Apple and Spotify.
31:14
[SPEAKER_02]: That's always really cool.
31:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Last but not least, we have a Patreon, just like every other podcast, but ours is awesome.
31:20
[SPEAKER_02]: ours is fun cool stuff happens over on ours and it's the best part about it is it's only $5.
31:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It's $5 a month and that's less than the Starbucks coffee because man coffee's expensive these days so if you're feeling some nice Starbucks maybe take one of those drinks a month throw it a reformatory you get bonus apps every month you get this episode early get a reformatory chat
31:46
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of cool stuff happened over there.
31:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all exclusive content.
31:50
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really, really great.
31:51
[SPEAKER_02]: If you choose to do so, our pledge to you is that your name shall be Halloween.
31:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, it's hallowed.
31:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Hallowed through the halls of the podcast that is our pledge to you.
32:00
[SPEAKER_02]: We thank you all for listening, and we will catch you on the next step of the reformatory.