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FEMALE DR. POURS DRANO in Hubby's Drink · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He says it all started
0:13
Speaker 1: with a chemical taste in his mouth, But I disagree.
0:19
Speaker 1: I think that there were neon flashing signs long before
0:25
Speaker 1: he had a chemical taste in his mouth. Take a
0:28
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Casel Jack. Chen's lawyer says
0:32
Speaker 1: his client has been sick for months, so he started
0:36
Speaker 1: to have unusual symptoms back in about the spring of
0:41
Speaker 1: this year March and April, and went in to get
0:45
Speaker 1: checked by a doctor and founded that he had had
0:47
Speaker 1: some physical effects and started to then connect the dots.
0:51
Speaker 1: Connect the dots, chemical taste in his mouth, road signs clues,
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Speaker 1: a trail of my l wide. That's what I'm talking about.
1:03
Speaker 1: Listen to our friends at ABC seven. Chen claims she
1:05
Speaker 1: demanded massages and when he refused, quote she stepped on
1:09
Speaker 1: my head until I did and began hiding money from me.
1:12
Speaker 1: The statements also detail the treatment of their eight year
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Speaker 1: old daughter and seven year old son, claiming she'd tell
1:18
Speaker 1: them you are so ugly, you look like a pig,
1:21
Speaker 1: or you are a sissy, and would yellow phrase at them,
1:24
Speaker 1: meaning go die. It describes you using sleep deprivation to
1:28
Speaker 1: punish their kids. Okay, whoa telling your child you look
1:34
Speaker 1: like a pig. You're a sissy. Go die. It's everything
1:39
Speaker 1: I can do to get the twins to go to bed,
1:42
Speaker 1: much less punish them with sleep deprivation and then the
1:47
Speaker 1: so called chemical taste in his mouth. Take a listen
1:53
Speaker 1: to our friend Michelle gilet ksel nine Jack chen allege's
1:59
Speaker 1: long time verbal, physical, and emotional abuse against his wife,
2:03
Speaker 1: which extends to their two children. Quote. If our children
2:07
Speaker 1: let Emily know that they enjoyed spending time with me
2:10
Speaker 1: or showed affection toward me, then Emily would put them
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Speaker 1: in their room and yell at them until they assured
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Speaker 1: her they would not show affection toward me. Okay, if
2:20
Speaker 1: you think you have problems in your marriage, did you
2:23
Speaker 1: hear all of that? Then you wake up one morning
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Speaker 1: with a chemical taste in your mouth. I'm Nancy Grace.
2:29
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
2:31
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. That
2:37
Speaker 1: phrase keeps going through my mind. I woke up with
2:41
Speaker 1: a chemical taste in my mouth. You know I've got
2:46
Speaker 1: an incredible panel lined up to break it down and
2:49
Speaker 1: put it back together again for you, But first I
2:51
Speaker 1: want to go to a long time friend and colleague,
2:56
Speaker 1: an awesome parent, and a man who puts his money
3:00
Speaker 1: where his mouth is. He's not just fighting addiction in
3:04
Speaker 1: our country, he has actually created a mobile addiction unit.
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Speaker 1: He travels all over the country fighting addiction with me.
3:16
Speaker 1: Right now, Doctor William Maroney, chief medical examiner out of Michigan,
3:20
Speaker 1: author of American Narcan, Doctor Moroney, is a real honor
3:25
Speaker 1: to have you. But before I go on and on
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Speaker 1: about you, what could cause? What are the many things
3:31
Speaker 1: that could cause a chemical taste in one's mouth? The
3:35
Speaker 1: regular flavors that you would expect are cinnamon, ginger, chocolate, coffee.
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Speaker 1: But chemical tastes mean there's a chemical or there's some
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Speaker 1: kind of metallic substance. Okay, now wait a minute, doctor Moroney.
3:52
Speaker 1: Doctor Maroney, yes again, I'm just a JD and you're
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Speaker 1: the MD. But I could have said everything you just said.
4:00
Speaker 1: I'm expecting some medical doctor expertise, wisdom coming from your
4:06
Speaker 1: mouth right now. I mean, I wouldn't think of a
4:08
Speaker 1: chemical taste. It is a flavor number one. You said cinnamon,
4:13
Speaker 1: you said chocolate, you said a couple of other things
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Speaker 1: that are yummy. But when I think chemical, I don't
4:19
Speaker 1: think yummy. Is this something like when you take a
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Speaker 1: pill the doctor wants you to take and it makes
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Speaker 1: your mouth taste back. One of the reasons why we
4:26
Speaker 1: swallow our pills and we don't put them in our
4:29
Speaker 1: mouth over long periods of time is that all chemicals
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Speaker 1: used in medicine taste bitter, they taste metallic, they taste chemical,
4:41
Speaker 1: so they package it up and put it in something
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Speaker 1: to let it go in your stomach quickly. If you
4:46
Speaker 1: have a medicine, it tastes bad. So that usually means
4:50
Speaker 1: if you have a taste in your mouth, you've been
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Speaker 1: given a chemical maybe a poison. Would anything in nature,
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Speaker 1: I can't think of any like Okay, say you have
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Speaker 1: Italian or you like you said, have chocolate or cinnamon
5:06
Speaker 1: or vanilla. You don't get a chemical taste in your mouth. No,
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Speaker 1: you get chemical tastes from chemicals. That's exactly where something foreign,
5:18
Speaker 1: something synthesized, you know. To Karen Stark joining me. Karen
5:21
Speaker 1: Stark is renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. You
5:26
Speaker 1: can find her at Karen's psych And that's Karen with
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Speaker 1: a See Karen, did you hear what he's saying about
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Speaker 1: what's going on in their home? Forget the chemical tastes.
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Speaker 1: Really hard for me to get that out of my mind.
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Speaker 1: This guy wakes up with this horrible taste in his mouth. Chemical.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I can understand if he went to bed
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Speaker 1: without brushing his teeth, or he got up and he
5:47
Speaker 1: might taste like dinner the night before, or if he
5:50
Speaker 1: had coffee that morning. But chemicals, there's nothing good about that.
5:56
Speaker 1: But did you hear the other stuff calling their children pig?
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Speaker 1: You look like a pig. You're a sissy? Go die?
6:06
Speaker 1: You know it makes you wonder, Nancy, what was he
6:08
Speaker 1: doing at Leasta Nicks Melander? Why was he there for
6:11
Speaker 1: so long? Well? Why wait? Wait, are you somehow blaming
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Speaker 1: him because the wife is calling the child a pig? No,
6:18
Speaker 1: I'm blaming you, say why was he there so long? Well?
6:21
Speaker 1: Why does she call him a pig? Can we just
6:23
Speaker 1: start with her? It came out of her mouth, not his.
6:26
Speaker 1: Why is she calling her children a pig? I mean,
6:29
Speaker 1: have you ever gone to Nascar? Karen Stark? Somehow I
6:33
Speaker 1: think the answer is going to be no, have you
6:34
Speaker 1: ever been a Nascar? Okay? No? All right, all right,
6:37
Speaker 1: maybe Formula one for you? But doctor Moroney. You know
6:41
Speaker 1: in NASCAR where they waved the big flag and the
6:44
Speaker 1: race is off. Yes, okay, So if my husband said
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Speaker 1: go die to one of the children, I mean I
6:54
Speaker 1: made it very clear, Karen Stark, have you okay, let
6:57
Speaker 1: me try something you can relate to. Karen joining me
7:00
Speaker 1: from your high rise office in Manhattan. Have you ever
7:03
Speaker 1: seen Parent Trap? Oh? Okay, now I guess you saw
7:07
Speaker 1: the old one with Hanley Males. Have you seen the reboot? Okay,
7:15
Speaker 1: my jog that's her favorite movie. So I can't extrapolate
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Speaker 1: onto you. She makes me watch it like every other month.
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Speaker 1: The reboot okay, and the reboot. The husband, you know,
7:26
Speaker 1: the boyfriend I think it's Dennis Quaid. Is he's Dennis
7:29
Speaker 1: Quaid and he has a new hot girlfriend and she
7:33
Speaker 1: of course doesn't get along with his twins, who are
7:35
Speaker 1: Lindsay Lohan and Lindsay Lohan. And she says, look, it's
7:39
Speaker 1: either them or me pick and he very quickly says them,
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Speaker 1: I think them. So, I mean, you know, you call
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Speaker 1: my child a pig. You're out bam. So I kind
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Speaker 1: of see what you're saying. Karen's Stark, But can we
7:53
Speaker 1: instead of focusing on him. Can we talk about her
7:56
Speaker 1: why she called the children pig? Because obviously this no
8:00
Speaker 1: doubt about it. Nancy, there's something wrong with a mother.
8:03
Speaker 1: Oh what is what's with the experts today? Okay? Doctor
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Speaker 1: Moroney says, you get a chemical taste in your mouth
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Speaker 1: because you've eaten a chemical Okay, all those eight years
8:15
Speaker 1: of education right down the crapper. And then Karen start
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Speaker 1: Yes says she calls her shoulder a pig because there's
8:21
Speaker 1: something wrong with her. Okay. I could tell Jerry that Karen,
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Speaker 1: she's an narchists. Nancy, Oh, you love to throw that
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Speaker 1: one out. I've never had a single defendant that you
8:33
Speaker 1: didn't say was a narcissist. And doctor Bethany Marshall always
8:36
Speaker 1: says there's sex, sex, massive ship. I don't know what
8:39
Speaker 1: she says, bondage and everything. So explain to me, why
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Speaker 1: would you say that to your child? Go die, you're
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Speaker 1: a pig? Okay. Somebody who had absolutely no conscience would
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Speaker 1: say that to their children, somebody who something is wrong
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Speaker 1: with her. I know you're saying that's what anyone could say,
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Speaker 1: but anyone would not be a mother who would speak
9:06
Speaker 1: that way to their children. She doesn't have that kind
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Speaker 1: of assets. You'ven't had that kind of sympathy and empathy
9:12
Speaker 1: to be able to understand. There you go. Hold on,
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Speaker 1: I've actually finally, Maroney, I'm writing down a note, and
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Speaker 1: it's not because of anything you said, no offense, no
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Speaker 1: sympathy or empathy. Now I'm getting somewhere because Matthew Mangino
9:29
Speaker 1: joining me, high profile lawyer or former district attorney, former
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Speaker 1: parole board member. I don't like that part, and author
9:36
Speaker 1: of the executioner's toll Matthew Mengino dot com. Matthew, You've
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Speaker 1: handled so many cases that escalate into something horrible, that
9:48
Speaker 1: start with little things like what you say to each other,
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Speaker 1: what you how you address your children. Her calling her
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Speaker 1: child a pig, you look like a pig. You're as
10:01
Speaker 1: Sissy go die to me, that's the begain, the tiny
10:05
Speaker 1: little nick that turns into a crack, that turns into
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Speaker 1: a giant cavern that you can't cross. Well, Nancy, we
10:15
Speaker 1: know that she called the children a pig only because
10:20
Speaker 1: of what her husband has said in a restraining order. Okay,
10:26
Speaker 1: so we have to rely on her husband. Doctor Chen
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Speaker 1: is telling the truth. To be honest, I'm a little
10:34
Speaker 1: skeptical about this whole situation. If he has been the
10:38
Speaker 1: subject of physical abuse, if the children were subject to
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Speaker 1: emotional abuse, why didn't he seek a restraining order earlier?
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Speaker 1: He had that opportunity. Okay, Matthew Mangine and hold it
10:50
Speaker 1: right there with me, private investigator at Mona Kay at
10:54
Speaker 1: Mona Kay Investigations joining us out of Omaha Mona. You
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Speaker 1: have handled so many domestic investigations. In my mind, you're
11:04
Speaker 1: hearing Matthew Maino say why did he file a tr earlier?
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Speaker 1: Why did he stick around and take it? He could
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Speaker 1: say that about every person that did not file a
11:14
Speaker 1: tro or leave the marriage on the first incident. Right, Well,
11:19
Speaker 1: I agree, I'm a little suspect of the timing of
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Speaker 1: a lot of it. I worked hundreds of domestic cases
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Speaker 1: where there are false allegations made and not saying that
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Speaker 1: this is but you know, we're taking his word that
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Speaker 1: these you know, this abuse took place, a verbal, physical
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Speaker 1: abuse toward himself and his kid. And I'm just wondering,
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Speaker 1: you know, if over those last five to six years
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Speaker 1: when he said that this was going on, especially with
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Speaker 1: his kids, did he document, you know, any of this,
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Speaker 1: did he record any of it audio video time stories
12:12
Speaker 1: with Nancy Greece Monique joining me, very well known private
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Speaker 1: investigator out of Omaha. I guess you and Matthew Mangino.
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Speaker 1: I don't like what you're saying, but you're right. If
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Speaker 1: you're going to go, if you're going to file a
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Speaker 1: t r O and go into court, you have to
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Speaker 1: explain why you've waited five or six years to do that. Also,
12:38
Speaker 1: you have the issue that it's much less likely for
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Speaker 1: a judge wrong or right to believe a man that
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Speaker 1: says he has been abused or mistreated. Okay, for you
12:52
Speaker 1: doubting Thomas's, that would be Matthew Mangino, high profile lawyer
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Speaker 1: and private investigator. Okay, all right, fine, you don't necessarily
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Speaker 1: believe she called her children a pig and said go die.
13:07
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our good friend Amy roboc At GMA.
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Speaker 1: According to the court documents, Chen says he started noticing
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Speaker 1: a chemical taste in my lemonade in March and April,
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Speaker 1: seeing a doctor who diagnosed him with two stomach ulcers, gastritis,
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Speaker 1: and esophagitis. After installing hidden cameras in the kitchen, he says,
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Speaker 1: I obtained footage of Emily poisoning me on three occasions.
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Speaker 1: The images allegedly show you taking a bottle of Draino,
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Speaker 1: a chemical drain cleaner, out of a cabinet and pouring
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Speaker 1: it into her husband's drinks on multiple occasions. Wow, that's subtle,
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Speaker 1: pouring draino into lemonade, and you know what it reminded
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Speaker 1: me of? To doctor William Roney, you and I have
13:48
Speaker 1: discussed this case before. This is a case that I
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Speaker 1: actually investigated and attended the trial and staked out the defendant.
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Speaker 1: Her name was land Turner. And here you got a
14:04
Speaker 1: claim that draino was poured into lemonade, masking the flavor.
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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends forensic files, cold hearted.
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Speaker 1: It was quite obvious that mister Thompson died as a
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Speaker 1: consequence of an acute ethylene glycol intoxication and poisoning. When
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Speaker 1: I found out Ranny had died from anti freeze poisoning,
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Speaker 1: I knew. When they exumed Glenn's body, when they took
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Speaker 1: those tissues, I knew they were going to find out
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Speaker 1: he died in the exact same causes. And that's precisely
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Speaker 1: what happened. Officials exhumed Glenn Turner's body, retested his tissue
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Speaker 1: samples and confirmed there was a lethal amount of anti
14:50
Speaker 1: freeze in his system. Anti freeze in jello? Was it
14:56
Speaker 1: jello or Jello's shots? Was jello? Jello? Now you know?
15:03
Speaker 1: To you doctor William Moroni, chief medical examiner joining us
15:07
Speaker 1: out of Michigan and author, doctor Moroni, antaphrase has a
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Speaker 1: kind of a sweet taste, I understand, and that is
15:15
Speaker 1: why you want your car to leak in case a
15:18
Speaker 1: dog may come and tasted and think it's sweet. That
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Speaker 1: was hidden in jello by Land Turner. One dead husband,
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Speaker 1: one dead boyfriend, lots of insurance, and here we have
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Speaker 1: an allegation that draino was hidden in lemonade. Would that
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Speaker 1: work well? I think the number one thing is draino
15:42
Speaker 1: is sodium hydroxide. That's a very caustic chemical, and the
15:49
Speaker 1: lemonade is acidic, so it kind of balances, but you're
15:54
Speaker 1: going to get that chemical taste. And the stein that
15:57
Speaker 1: he had guest ritis and ulcers completely matches sodium hydroxide
16:05
Speaker 1: exposure because it's caustic. It's going to eat through your stomach,
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Speaker 1: it's gonna eat through your esophagus, and you really that
16:13
Speaker 1: was the poison because it's acute. In small doses, it'll
16:19
Speaker 1: look like he's got reflex he's got gird, but it's
16:23
Speaker 1: eating away parts of the stomach that are gonna bleed.
16:26
Speaker 1: Did you just say GERD GERD gastrosophageal reflux disease very
16:30
Speaker 1: common and overweight people that have lent problems. I don't
16:35
Speaker 1: know that this guy's overweight, but I do know he
16:38
Speaker 1: had serious, serious stomach problems. Take a listen to our
16:42
Speaker 1: friends at ksea L Her husband is a doctor as well,
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Speaker 1: and his name is Jack Chen. He has videos from
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Speaker 1: July eleventh, eighteenth, and twenty fifth allegedly showing his wife
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Speaker 1: in their kitchen with a big bottle of Draino now.
16:57
Speaker 1: According to jack Chen's lawyer, in one of the clips,
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Speaker 1: you can see Chen's wife removing a piece of sorand
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Speaker 1: wrap that was placed over Chen's lemonade drink. She then
17:10
Speaker 1: pours Draino allegedly into that cup and puts the sand
17:13
Speaker 1: rap back on top. She tried to kill him, poisoned
17:17
Speaker 1: and irvine, husband says with draino, Doctor Jack Chen has
17:21
Speaker 1: three videos to prove his wife is behind it. According
17:24
Speaker 1: to his lawyer, these are screenshots, which are contained in
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Speaker 1: court documents from cameras hidden in the couple's kitchen in July.
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Speaker 1: They allegedly show the suspect you you, who was also
17:36
Speaker 1: a local physician, pouring drain cleaner into her husband's lemonade.
17:40
Speaker 1: She takes up the bottle, she pours it in, she
17:43
Speaker 1: puts the cap back on, puts it back into the
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Speaker 1: sec as though nothing else was happening in her day.
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Speaker 1: It is very calm, very methodical. Okay, Mangino, Hi light
17:54
Speaker 1: me now, all right, because now you're saying there's no
17:58
Speaker 1: evidence she called her children pig. She's caught on. You
18:01
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to go to a special guest
18:03
Speaker 1: joining us Matthew, Me and Gina, so you and mona
18:07
Speaker 1: Quay private investigators can hear some more facts. Nathan Percy
18:10
Speaker 1: is with us crimate public safety reporter with Southern California
18:14
Speaker 1: News Group, and you can find him on Twitter at
18:16
Speaker 1: Indeed Percy. Nathan. Thank you for being with us. Nathan Percy.
18:21
Speaker 1: I'm really amazed that he lived long enough to actually
18:26
Speaker 1: set up surveillance video because it seems like he had
18:31
Speaker 1: been poisoned over a period of time and was getting
18:34
Speaker 1: sicker and sicker and sicker. Nathan Percy joining US Southern
18:39
Speaker 1: California News Group started at the beginning, tell me everything. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: According to his declaration the court documents, he said he
18:46
Speaker 1: noticed this chemical caste in March or April of twenty
18:49
Speaker 1: twenty two. I think you know, most of us here
18:51
Speaker 1: in Southern California are going with that March date. But
18:55
Speaker 1: at some point between then and the time you put
18:57
Speaker 1: the cameras up, was that doctor's appointment where he was
19:00
Speaker 1: diagnosed with the ulcers, the gastritis and the esophagitis, and
19:06
Speaker 1: those kind of confirmed his suspicions that maybe his wife
19:10
Speaker 1: was putting something into his drink, into his drinks in
19:13
Speaker 1: the morning. Hold on just a second. I want to
19:15
Speaker 1: try to digest what you're saying, Nathan Percy joining ME
19:18
Speaker 1: crime A public safety reporters like drinking from the fire
19:20
Speaker 1: hydra too much too fast. Hold on, Nathan to doctor
19:24
Speaker 1: William Moroney, joining US Ulcers, gastritis, and esophagitis. Is that
19:29
Speaker 1: what he just said? And what is that? That's exactly
19:33
Speaker 1: what would look like from being given drano. Drain eats
19:37
Speaker 1: away at the tissues inside of the stomach. It eats
19:41
Speaker 1: away at the tissues in your esophagus, the tube that
19:45
Speaker 1: goes down from your mouth to your stomach, and it
19:48
Speaker 1: looks like maybe there's just too much acid. He has
19:52
Speaker 1: reflex acid. And the reason why she picked Draino is
19:57
Speaker 1: sodium hydroxide cannot be found in tests like if you're
20:02
Speaker 1: being poisoned with arsenic or cyanide or rat poison or
20:07
Speaker 1: propylene glycol or formaldehyde, you don't see it's it's natural
20:14
Speaker 1: chemical elements. Okay, wait a minute, you just made a
20:17
Speaker 1: long list of chemicals and substances. Are you saying, for instance,
20:21
Speaker 1: formaldehyde would show up in tests and Drano would not,
20:25
Speaker 1: or that they would both show up. Drano won't show up.
20:28
Speaker 1: It's sodium hydroxide. And I believe that Nathan Percy is
20:34
Speaker 1: a very strong indicator as to why we cannot discount
20:37
Speaker 1: the fact that the suspect of the wife, the mother
20:40
Speaker 1: of jack Chen, Emily, she goes by Emily, is also
20:43
Speaker 1: a doctor. So she would very well know exactly what
20:48
Speaker 1: doctor Moroney's talking about. They would run the panels and
20:52
Speaker 1: nothing would show up. Yeah, you'd have to think that
20:56
Speaker 1: she would have some indication or some knowledge of that
20:59
Speaker 1: she works as a dermatologist out of a Mission Viejo clinic,
21:03
Speaker 1: and he works as a radiologist. So you'd have to
21:07
Speaker 1: imagine that they if she doesn't know it directly, they
21:10
Speaker 1: share notes on things, and she would have some knowledge
21:14
Speaker 1: of of, you know, what would happen if a chemical
21:17
Speaker 1: was added to someone's drink, particularly you know, dreano. Do
21:21
Speaker 1: you know where they live, Nathan, Yeah. They live in Irvine,
21:24
Speaker 1: which is normally a pretty quiet city, which is surprising
21:28
Speaker 1: because it's you know, about three three hundred thousand residents.
21:32
Speaker 1: It's in southern Orange County. There's not a lot that
21:36
Speaker 1: happens down there in the way of violent crime or
21:39
Speaker 1: things like that. There are some domestic things that happen
21:42
Speaker 1: every now and then, and we get a lot of
21:43
Speaker 1: Most of our reporting down there, from my experience, has
21:47
Speaker 1: been traffic collisions and things like that. But they live
21:50
Speaker 1: also in a pretty pricing neck of the woods. Nathan Percy. Yeah,
21:55
Speaker 1: from from what we understand, it's multimillion dollar homes in
21:58
Speaker 1: that area. It's it's in the southern portion of the city.
22:02
Speaker 1: They live kind of in between two universities you see,
22:05
Speaker 1: Irvine and Concordia University UM. And yeah, it's Uh, it's
22:10
Speaker 1: it's a nice area down there. It's. Uh, there's a
22:13
Speaker 1: there's a big Asian population in Irvine. Um. It's about
22:17
Speaker 1: forty three forty four percent according to the latest twenty
22:20
Speaker 1: twenty one census Quick Facts. UM. And and again it's
22:25
Speaker 1: for being such a big city. It's it's usually pretty quiet.
22:29
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just thinking through something. UM. Let me
22:32
Speaker 1: go to you, Karen, start joining me. Psychologists joining us
22:36
Speaker 1: out of Manhattan. Karen, you and I, UM have seen
22:42
Speaker 1: where one poisoning is not enough, where the perp will
22:49
Speaker 1: poison a spouse than poison a child. And very often,
22:56
Speaker 1: like with Lynn Turner that I just showed you one
22:59
Speaker 1: poisoning of the husband was not enough, and then she
23:02
Speaker 1: went on to poison her boyfriend. It's almost as if
23:06
Speaker 1: it's an illness. And I don't mean insanity. I mean,
23:11
Speaker 1: for instance, I've always said, and anybody jump in if
23:14
Speaker 1: you disagree, Matthew Mangina, you may. And all the years
23:17
Speaker 1: I prosecuted and read literally thousands of case files, I
23:22
Speaker 1: determined that sex offenders and burglars could not be rehabilitated.
23:28
Speaker 1: There's something about the thrill of burglarizing something going in
23:33
Speaker 1: when nobody's around. You just oat and peeping tom's. But
23:36
Speaker 1: I love them. In with sex offenders, they cannot be
23:40
Speaker 1: rehabilitated doesn't mean they're insane. It just means it's almost
23:45
Speaker 1: like a compulsion. And I think that about poisoners. I
23:51
Speaker 1: think very often once they get started, there will be
23:53
Speaker 1: another victim, such as a child, Karen Well Nancy. That
23:58
Speaker 1: has to do with that thrill that you're talking about
24:02
Speaker 1: of actually thinking that you have the power to control
24:07
Speaker 1: someone's life. And then the thrill comes actually from watching
24:11
Speaker 1: somebody gets thicker and thicker. And here you're talking about
24:15
Speaker 1: a woman who's an abuser to begin with. Is that
24:19
Speaker 1: alleged abuts with the way that she treats her children
24:23
Speaker 1: and her husband. And on top of that, there's that excitement.
24:28
Speaker 1: She's a doctor. She knows exactly what she's doing, and
24:31
Speaker 1: she knows the effect that it's having on his body,
24:35
Speaker 1: how it's making him sick, and so there's an excitement
24:39
Speaker 1: to realizing that she has the power, the control to
24:43
Speaker 1: be able to take life in this way. Doctor Marino,
24:46
Speaker 1: let me tell you a question for all is this
24:48
Speaker 1: thought I first heard of serial poisoners, Believe it or not,
24:53
Speaker 1: In my hometown of Macon, Georgia. My mother before she
24:57
Speaker 1: worked herself up from a bank teller to be a
25:00
Speaker 1: CFO of a company. She worked at a bank across
25:04
Speaker 1: from the courthouse, and everybody would go eat lunch, all
25:08
Speaker 1: the judges, the sheriffs, the prosecutors, the lawyers at this
25:13
Speaker 1: diner called a jets Well. And Jett ended up being
25:18
Speaker 1: convicted of poisoning two husbands, one mother in law, and
25:23
Speaker 1: one child or two children. And then she was convicted
25:28
Speaker 1: and she went to the state Penitentiary for women and
25:32
Speaker 1: became the head of the cafeteria. True story. That's where
25:38
Speaker 1: I have this in my head that once you start
25:40
Speaker 1: with the poisoning, you very often can't stop. So have
25:44
Speaker 1: you ever seen a poisoning victim? Have you done an
25:47
Speaker 1: autopsy on a poisoning victim? Doctor Moroni? Yeah, of poisoning
25:52
Speaker 1: victims that go to autopsy are usually bizarre, strange things,
25:57
Speaker 1: rat poisoning, mercury. We've seen in hute exposures to you know,
26:03
Speaker 1: a pesticides, farmers in the fields, things like that, And
26:08
Speaker 1: if it's very low doses, people don't catch on. And
26:12
Speaker 1: like I said before, you know that sodium hydroxide that's
26:15
Speaker 1: the chemical taste in your mouth. It's it's caustic, it's lie,
26:20
Speaker 1: it's very basic, and it's very corrosive. And if you
26:25
Speaker 1: gave enough sodium hydroxide once, when they cut you open
26:28
Speaker 1: an autopsy, they would find it. It would be a
26:32
Speaker 1: clump of stuff and it'd be identifiable. But if you
26:35
Speaker 1: give it in low doses, you cause holes in the stomach,
26:39
Speaker 1: holes in the esophagus, and people bleed internally. I mean,
26:42
Speaker 1: when you look at that as a doctor, would you
26:45
Speaker 1: know it's from poisoning or would you suspect more natural causes?
26:48
Speaker 1: It looks like too much acid. You're you're you're having
26:53
Speaker 1: ulcers because you make too much acid and you eat
26:55
Speaker 1: the wrong foods. But if you if somebody poisoned you
26:59
Speaker 1: in a big chunk, a big mando piece, you'd see
27:03
Speaker 1: that piece would still be there and it would be
27:05
Speaker 1: sent to the layout. Is that a technical medical term?
27:09
Speaker 1: A big quote mando piece? Okay, I'm writing that down
27:13
Speaker 1: and I will use that against you later. Guys, take
27:15
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at ABC seven. This is
27:18
Speaker 1: Irene Cruz. Radiologist Jack Chen says he noticed a chemical
27:22
Speaker 1: taste in his drinks in March, he set up a
27:24
Speaker 1: hidden camera in their kitchen, capturing video evidence of his
27:28
Speaker 1: wife you you allegedly taking drainoe from under the sink
27:32
Speaker 1: and pouring it into his lemonade in three separate instances.
27:36
Speaker 1: In July, a doctor diagnosed Chin with two stomachless gastritis
27:41
Speaker 1: esophagus inflammation. Wow. Straight back out to our investigative reporter
27:46
Speaker 1: joining us. So not just once, not just twice, but
27:49
Speaker 1: three times that we know of that we're caught on camera.
27:54
Speaker 1: The Lord only knows how many times she did it
27:56
Speaker 1: before with me Nathan Percy joining us some southern California
28:00
Speaker 1: is a great three times? Tell me where was the
28:03
Speaker 1: hidden camera placed in the kitchen? Do we know? So?
28:05
Speaker 1: He from the documents that we see, he had two
28:08
Speaker 1: cameras in the kitchen. The main one that allegedly shows
28:13
Speaker 1: her pouring the draino into his drinks is kind of
28:16
Speaker 1: a wide ranging view. It looks like it's maybe in
28:18
Speaker 1: the corner like by a hallway, that shows the entire kitchen.
28:24
Speaker 1: He had a second one that he also placed underneath
28:27
Speaker 1: the kitchen sink, right next to the draino bottle. And
28:30
Speaker 1: there's a couple of screenshots that were included in his
28:32
Speaker 1: court documents that showed allegedly, you know, her hand reaching
28:37
Speaker 1: in to grab the draino bottle from underneath the sink.
28:41
Speaker 1: So the first one is kind of a more wide ranging.
28:43
Speaker 1: Those are the ones that you've kind of seen on
28:45
Speaker 1: the news, and you've seen those camera angles where you've
28:49
Speaker 1: got kind of a view from the far side and
28:52
Speaker 1: it's pointing towards kind of a back screen door, backsliding
28:55
Speaker 1: door with the sink on the right side and the
28:58
Speaker 1: cabinets and that on the left. So that was the
29:03
Speaker 1: one that kind of that their alleging shows the entire
29:06
Speaker 1: act taking place, Time stories with Nancy Grace, Nathan Percy
29:27
Speaker 1: joining US Southern California News Group. You've seen the other one,
29:30
Speaker 1: that's the close up camera according to you from the
29:35
Speaker 1: court documents that you've read, is right there with the
29:38
Speaker 1: draino and you see a hand reach in and get
29:41
Speaker 1: the draino and then I guess he is matching that
29:44
Speaker 1: up with a wide range shot of her coming in
29:49
Speaker 1: and out of the kitchen. Question how were the cameras
29:54
Speaker 1: hidden that? I don't know at this point. I'm not
29:57
Speaker 1: sure exactly what he did to seal them. Um I know,
30:01
Speaker 1: the one in the kitchen sink is off to the side. Um,
30:04
Speaker 1: you know kind of I would, I would guess, you know,
30:08
Speaker 1: if you were looking from side to side when reaching
30:10
Speaker 1: into the kitchen sink, you might be able to see it.
30:12
Speaker 1: But if you're just going in there, knowing what you're grabbing,
30:17
Speaker 1: you might not notice it. If you're just going after,
30:20
Speaker 1: you know, a bottle underneath the sink. Other than that,
30:23
Speaker 1: the other the other camera on the far side. I'm
30:25
Speaker 1: not sure exactly what he did to conceal that one.
30:27
Speaker 1: You know what, I was just thinking about Mona K
30:29
Speaker 1: joining me Pribavate, an investigator out of Omaha, Mona K
30:32
Speaker 1: the letter K Investigations. Mona I was just about to say, Wow,
30:38
Speaker 1: she must have been crazy to reach down and get
30:40
Speaker 1: the drain I and I notice there's a video camera
30:43
Speaker 1: right there. Not true, Not true, because I was just
30:48
Speaker 1: thinking about when I reach under the sink to get out,
30:50
Speaker 1: for instance, olive oil or whatever I'm getting out from
30:54
Speaker 1: from down under there. I don't look back in the
30:57
Speaker 1: back of the sink. I don't look up at the
30:59
Speaker 1: top of the cabinet that could be pointed down at
31:02
Speaker 1: the olive oil or really anywhere. Why wouldn't you? So
31:08
Speaker 1: that was pretty ingenious on his part. What I was
31:12
Speaker 1: coming to you about, Monique to comment on that. But
31:14
Speaker 1: I love secret cameras and they come and so Jack,
31:19
Speaker 1: keep it careful. I'll see you in here drinking your coffee. Okay.
31:25
Speaker 1: But they are so now they're the size of, you know,
31:32
Speaker 1: the tip of a pin. You would never notice them.
31:36
Speaker 1: I mean you can get them in teddy bears, you
31:38
Speaker 1: can get them in clocks, you can put them on
31:41
Speaker 1: the oven and no one would ever notice that. Monaque,
31:45
Speaker 1: do you use those a lot in your private investigation business?
31:48
Speaker 1: So yes, every once in a while we use those.
31:50
Speaker 1: But and they aren't very accessible to anybody. You can
31:53
Speaker 1: get them online m surveillance type stores. But you know
31:57
Speaker 1: they come in all different sizes. They can be very
32:01
Speaker 1: well hidden. You can you know, a ball point pin,
32:05
Speaker 1: a bob point pin can have a camera in it.
32:07
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, Monaka, you and I discussed
32:10
Speaker 1: the use of a recording ballpoint pen and the Suzanne
32:15
Speaker 1: Morphew murder mystery. Remember she thought her husband, Barry Morphy
32:20
Speaker 1: was having an affair, so she had put a pin
32:24
Speaker 1: It looked like a ballpoint pen in his truck to
32:28
Speaker 1: try to catch him talking to his girlfriend. So, I mean,
32:32
Speaker 1: it can look really like anything. So there's really no
32:36
Speaker 1: telling how he had the husband had this disguise, and
32:40
Speaker 1: thank god in Heaven he did. Or people like Matthew Mangino,
32:45
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer, would say exactly what he was saying
32:48
Speaker 1: at the beginning of her program. Just because she called
32:51
Speaker 1: her children pig and said go die, that doesn't mean
32:54
Speaker 1: he was poisoned. I guarantee you. Mangino would argue a trial,
32:59
Speaker 1: back me up and Gino that these ailments also his
33:03
Speaker 1: gastritis is selphagitis could have been caused naturally because Maroney
33:09
Speaker 1: says sodium hydroxide does not show up in the test. Well, great,
33:13
Speaker 1: and this is all too perfect. Nancy number one. I'd
33:17
Speaker 1: like to know what he told his doctor when he
33:20
Speaker 1: went to see him. He suspected because of this taste,
33:23
Speaker 1: this chemical taste in his mouth, that he was being
33:27
Speaker 1: poisoned as far back as March. Did he tell his
33:30
Speaker 1: doctor that was that something that you know his doctor
33:34
Speaker 1: considered and with regard to this the cameras, this is
33:38
Speaker 1: just so perfect. I mean, you know, you have three
33:41
Speaker 1: different dates during the month of July. You know what,
33:44
Speaker 1: you kill me? When I don't have a video, you
33:46
Speaker 1: go like you can't prove it. When I do have
33:48
Speaker 1: a video, you say it's too perfect you have a video. Well, Nancy,
33:52
Speaker 1: think about this. If if you have these videos set
33:54
Speaker 1: up and you're going to review these videos and you
33:57
Speaker 1: see your spouse a draino in your drink on July eleven, Yeah,
34:03
Speaker 1: you're gonna sit there for two more weeks and make
34:05
Speaker 1: sure I get some more documented evidence that I'm being poisoned.
34:09
Speaker 1: Or are you gonna say, oh yeah, if you're not
34:10
Speaker 1: drinking it. I mean, I wouldn't eat or drink anything
34:13
Speaker 1: in the whole house, but I wouldn't be very afraid
34:16
Speaker 1: she might be poisoning the children. So let's just follow
34:20
Speaker 1: your irrationale through to its logical conclusion. You're saying, because
34:26
Speaker 1: he waited to catch her on video two more times, ergo, Therefore,
34:31
Speaker 1: what I'm not sure what's in that bottle or what
34:34
Speaker 1: she's putting in the drink. I mean's she's so casual
34:37
Speaker 1: about it. She pulls this bottle lot, walks over to
34:40
Speaker 1: the table, puts this substance in his hot lemonade, and
34:45
Speaker 1: then puts it away. I mean, if I was trying
34:47
Speaker 1: to poison somebody, I certainly try to be a little
34:50
Speaker 1: more discreet about it. Maybe hide to make sure no
34:53
Speaker 1: one sees me. Oh so the killer, the sneaky killer
34:57
Speaker 1: is not sneaky enough from Matthew Man. You know, good
35:00
Speaker 1: luck with that in front of a jury. Mangino, is
35:03
Speaker 1: that maroney jumping in? Nobody recycled and reuses drain o bottles.
35:09
Speaker 1: There's nothing. You have to find a place to put
35:12
Speaker 1: the drain ol so it doesn't Yeah, maybe she was
35:14
Speaker 1: storing the sugar in there. Mangino, Thank you, Maroni, thank
35:18
Speaker 1: you for throwing me that bad light. There, guys, take
35:22
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut five. This is amy roadblock
35:25
Speaker 1: at GMA. Chen's attorney speaking with GMA. This is an
35:29
Speaker 1: incredibly intimate way to commit a murder. She had to
35:33
Speaker 1: know what his routine was, what his preferences were. A methodical, intimate,
35:41
Speaker 1: horrific way to murder some This is mind bob wing to.
35:45
Speaker 1: Chen has also filed for divorce and requested full custody
35:48
Speaker 1: of the couple's two children, alleging Emily's parenting. If you
35:52
Speaker 1: could call it that revolves around yelling insulting, verbally abusing, hitting, pushing, pulling,
35:58
Speaker 1: and being emotionally use it. So back to you, Nathan
36:02
Speaker 1: Percy joining us with Southern California newscrip. You say, there's
36:06
Speaker 1: the wide range of video that Matthew Mangino, you know
36:10
Speaker 1: he's grasping at straws. You've got the wide range of
36:13
Speaker 1: video of her coming in and out of the kitchen.
36:16
Speaker 1: You have the close range video that's I guess in
36:19
Speaker 1: the cabinet where you see the hand come in and
36:21
Speaker 1: get the draino. Do I understand, Nathan Percy that she
36:24
Speaker 1: actually had his lemonade prepared with saran wrap over it.
36:27
Speaker 1: It's like she laid it all out the night before
36:29
Speaker 1: or something that I'm not aware of. Unfortunately, I'm not
36:33
Speaker 1: sure whether he had prepared it and at one point
36:36
Speaker 1: started hold on Karen, start jump in. According to what
36:41
Speaker 1: I read, he prepared the lemonade, he put the suran
36:44
Speaker 1: rap on it, and then she took it off, added
36:48
Speaker 1: the draino and by the way, I don't know what
36:51
Speaker 1: was so strange about the fact that she didn't hide it.
36:54
Speaker 1: She didn't know there was any camera on her, so
36:57
Speaker 1: of course she was doing it and putting it away again.
37:00
Speaker 1: And then what's interesting, Nancy, is that she stayed there
37:05
Speaker 1: while he sat down. He came into the kitchen, sat
37:09
Speaker 1: down prepared to drink it. So again, there's no feeling
37:13
Speaker 1: there whatsoever about well, you know, maybe I'm causing harm
37:18
Speaker 1: or I'm doing something terrible and I'm watching him do it. No,
37:22
Speaker 1: she's happy to be watching him drink that drino. She
37:25
Speaker 1: stayed there to watch him drink it. Is that what
37:27
Speaker 1: you just said, Well, she was there while he was
37:30
Speaker 1: sitting down and drinking to make sure het drank it. Monicue,
37:34
Speaker 1: private investigator jump in. I just have a thought. How
37:36
Speaker 1: many people in their own home, with their own family
37:39
Speaker 1: members covered their drinks with soran rap and walk away
37:44
Speaker 1: just to come back and take a drink. I mean,
37:46
Speaker 1: wouldn't that alert her to maybe some suspicion on his part? Guys, Monique,
37:53
Speaker 1: that's an excellent point. No, I do not put soran
37:55
Speaker 1: rap over my drink. But you and Mangino keep trying
38:00
Speaker 1: to defend her and put blame on the husband. He's
38:04
Speaker 1: the one that has his stomach eaten up with acid, right,
38:08
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that wouldn't he maybe be suspicious that
38:12
Speaker 1: he was on to her also, Oh yeah, I say that.
38:15
Speaker 1: I guess she was so hale bent on killing him
38:18
Speaker 1: that she didn't notice. Or maybe that was his routine.
38:21
Speaker 1: May maybe he made his drink and covered it up.
38:25
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he made the lemonade. He prepared it the
38:28
Speaker 1: night before, is what I read. Anyway, And he puts
38:30
Speaker 1: the rand rap over it. Now, guys, if you think
38:34
Speaker 1: you've heard it all, listen to our cut toil from
38:37
Speaker 1: casey Al When I was looking through the court papers.
38:40
Speaker 1: What it said was that at one point she called
38:43
Speaker 1: her husband and asked if he would bail her out,
38:45
Speaker 1: but he refused. The district attorney has not filed charges
38:49
Speaker 1: against her yet. I also learned today that jack Chen's
38:54
Speaker 1: lawyer went to the jail when you you was still
38:57
Speaker 1: in jail and presented her with the restraining order. She
39:01
Speaker 1: seemed to be confused about all of it, and he
39:04
Speaker 1: said to her, well, you've been poisoning your husband. That's
39:07
Speaker 1: why we're getting a restraining order. She actually called the
39:12
Speaker 1: husband she's been poisoning on video and asked him to
39:17
Speaker 1: pay the bail to bond her out of jail. Is
39:21
Speaker 1: that right, Nathan person, Yes, that is that. It is
39:24
Speaker 1: also included in his declaration that he wrote in petitioning
39:30
Speaker 1: for the temporary restraining order, which according to you know,
39:34
Speaker 1: according to the court's website, was filed on August fifth,
39:37
Speaker 1: which was one day after she was arrested by Irvine
39:39
Speaker 1: police on August fourth. When is this going to court, Nathan.
39:42
Speaker 1: There's a hearing on the temporary restraining order on August eighteenth,
39:47
Speaker 1: and she's been ordered to stay at least one hundred
39:50
Speaker 1: yards away from the three of them and their home
39:53
Speaker 1: until at least that time when a hearing can be
39:55
Speaker 1: when the hearing takes place, has she actually bonded out? Yeah,
39:59
Speaker 1: so the the Irvine Police Department arrested her on suspicion
40:03
Speaker 1: of poisoning. It wasn't. It wasn't unsuspicion of attempted murder
40:06
Speaker 1: or anything like that. And I think for the criminal
40:09
Speaker 1: aspect of it, that's kind of a big deal at
40:12
Speaker 1: this point because the bail amount for that charge is
40:15
Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars, which you know, it would be much
40:18
Speaker 1: higher if they were suspecting her of attempted murder. Who
40:21
Speaker 1: is the district attorney that's sitting on these charges. He's
40:24
Speaker 1: not one of the woke das that won't prosecute anything
40:28
Speaker 1: like gascon is. Oh no, the DA in Orange County
40:30
Speaker 1: is Todd Spitzer. I've been in contact with his office
40:34
Speaker 1: and they're reviewing the evidence in this case. They haven't
40:38
Speaker 1: come to a conclusion on charges yet. Really, well, maybe
40:43
Speaker 1: after she takes a shot at her husband they'll come
40:46
Speaker 1: around with an attempted murder charge or three of them.
40:50
Speaker 1: Good gravy that she's gone on video. What are they
40:54
Speaker 1: waiting for? Okay, we wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace
41:00
Speaker 1: a story signing off goodbye friend m