Latest / Beheaded / Evil Begets Evil | Nat Turner

Transcript

Evil Begets Evil | Nat Turner · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to season four, episode 10.
0:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm Megan Moore.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:11
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna try to get through this because we as best we can.
0:15
SPEAKER_04: We both have terrible coughs.
0:17
SPEAKER_04: I think okay, mine went away as I told you last episode, and then it came back, and now it's just here to stay, I guess.
0:24
SPEAKER_03: And I got whatever Elizabeth got.
0:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm really sorry.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: We it's fine.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: We were laughing so hard because you know you can hear it.
0:35
SPEAKER_04: We can't hear it.
0:36
SPEAKER_04: You can hear it in our voice.
0:37
SPEAKER_04: We both sound like crap.
0:38
SPEAKER_03: We sound like old hags because the specific cough that we have makes us sound like, and we there's only one way to describe this, and if you know, you know, and if you don't, I apologize.
0:47
SPEAKER_03: We're just gonna tell you what this sounds like.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: It's like the 70s Disney movies, animated movies, where they like have like a rattling car vehicle, or like someone disappears and just goes like is that the best way to describe it?
1:00
SPEAKER_04: I can't do it loud, but yeah, it's like Cruella de Ville's car, or that's like how we sound when we laugh and we cough.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: And I just don't know how else to describe it.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: Or I think it's in like um The Fox and the Hound.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:18
SPEAKER_04: Don't they do that too?
1:19
SPEAKER_04: It's it's Fox and the Hound, it's Winnie the Pooh, it's all of those movies that came out in that era.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh The Rescuers.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Yep, rescuers.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: And she's got her Medusa's got her like swamp vehicle.
1:31
unknown: Yeah.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, if if we're laughing hard, which we tend to do, our um our our puttering comes out.
1:38
SPEAKER_03: Do you have to deal with our puttering this episode?
1:40
SPEAKER_03: And we apologize.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: It is what it is, but I don't think there's gonna be a lot of editing it out because it's just there.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: Let's let's take a moment of silence, and I'm gonna insert in.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna find a sound clip of that sound that we're talking about.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: Oh, good idea.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: So people know we're not crazy.
1:55
SPEAKER_03: And we should also do like an Instagram reel or something of like this this is what we're talking about.
2:00
SPEAKER_03: This is our our voice.
2:01
SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
2:02
SPEAKER_06: Good job.
2:04
SPEAKER_06: Your nightmares will come true.
2:12
SPEAKER_04: So you see what we're getting at?
2:14
SPEAKER_04: That's what it is.
2:16
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, um, that is the crap.
2:17
SPEAKER_04: How are you doing?
2:18
SPEAKER_04: To kick it off.
2:19
SPEAKER_03: Well, uh, I did a marathon this past weekend, which is probably why my lungs still haven't recovered.
2:24
SPEAKER_03: Did you die?
2:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it wasn't, it was okay.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: It was considering my lungs right now, like it was the best I could have done.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: Like, it wasn't good, it wasn't bad.
2:33
SPEAKER_03: Still better than I would have ever done.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: Shut through it.
2:37
SPEAKER_03: It was just it was the quickest trip I've ever had for a marathon.
2:40
SPEAKER_03: It was like I had like a red eye to Louisville on like a Thursday night, so we got in Friday.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: Like, race was Saturday morning, so it was like get to Louisville, like get a meal, sleep early, run the race, sleep again, have a dinner, and then like our flight was like 6 30 in the morning on Sunday.
2:57
SPEAKER_03: So it was just, I don't I did I even go, like I don't even remember it.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: So fast.
3:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
3:02
SPEAKER_03: But I will say, Robbie had a really nice bottle of bourbon for me at the end because it's the bourbon capital of the world.
3:09
SPEAKER_04: So I appreciated that.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: How about the part when you had to, when you open the bourbon to celebrate?
3:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: And then realize you can't bring opened alcohol on a plane.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: And like I was like, oh, this is great.
3:20
SPEAKER_04: Immediately, like tear it open, like start drinking it, like ripping it.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: It's only 10 a.m.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: 10 a.m.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: You're in Louisville.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: That's what you do.
3:28
SPEAKER_03: I know.
3:28
SPEAKER_03: There was these like three women who were just like in this little group near me, and I see them just like point and like laugh at me, like visibly.
3:38
SPEAKER_03: That's what I said.
3:38
SPEAKER_04: I like drank my like bourbon and I looked at them and I was like, What?
3:41
SPEAKER_04: I was like, what are these judgy looks you guys have?
3:44
SPEAKER_04: And I was like being funny.
3:45
SPEAKER_04: They knew I wasn't like being rude, and they like just were laughing.
3:48
SPEAKER_04: They're like, no, they're like, girl, just keep going, like, do what you do.
3:51
SPEAKER_03: How do you do it?
3:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but um, but I did realize I couldn't take it on the plane after that.
3:55
SPEAKER_03: So I was like, shit.
3:56
SPEAKER_03: I was like, Robbie, we have to finish this bottle today.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: Three options.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: You could donate it, nope, pour it out, nope, or drink it.
4:06
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
4:06
SPEAKER_03: Alright.
4:07
SPEAKER_03: And that's what we did.
4:08
SPEAKER_03: And we again we drank it like right after the race had finished, and then it was still early, so then we like drink it back in the hotel room, like start early.
4:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like napping and showering, and then we literally snuck in a bottle, like we're teenagers, to the restaurant we ate at that night, and then we were like to the server.
4:23
SPEAKER_04: We're like, Oh my gosh, we just want Coca-Cola.
4:25
SPEAKER_04: But can you only fill it up like halfway?
4:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, can we just leave some room?
4:31
SPEAKER_04: Coca-Cola with room, please.
4:33
SPEAKER_04: No ice.
4:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and then like it was funny because you kept coming back wondering why our drinks weren't like going away, because we just kept like refilling our like giant cocktails.
4:41
SPEAKER_04: She had to have known.
4:42
SPEAKER_04: I'm sure, but it's like, what we're like 30.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: It's all it's always when like you think you're being sneaky, you're a little intoxicated, and that's when you are the least sneaky ever.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: You're like, oh, I'm gonna get away with this.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, no, honey, everybody knows.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: Excuse me.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: You stink of booze.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: You came in here drunk.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you weren't acting sober, and yet your your cokes were getting lighter in color.
5:04
SPEAKER_03: They just turning more amber.
5:06
SPEAKER_03: And like it was funny too, because our specific booth, it was like one of these booths that just had like mirrors everywhere.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: It was like a mirror behind us, like a mirror in front of us, security cameras everywhere.
5:16
SPEAKER_03: I'm shocked you didn't get kicked out.
5:17
SPEAKER_03: It's it's a little babe.
5:20
SPEAKER_03: It's bourbon capital of the world.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm glad your your marathon.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: It went well, right?
5:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, overall, despite the hacking and the bourbon and everything, like you still had a really good time.
5:29
SPEAKER_03: It was cool.
5:30
SPEAKER_03: It was, yeah, it was a decent time, and uh, you know, and at the end of the day, we ran through Churchill Downs, which is where the Kentucky Derby is.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: Oh, cool.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: So we literally saw like horses like warming up for their races, like right next to us when we were running.
5:41
SPEAKER_03: I think there was a race that night and then Kentucky Derbies in a week, so it was like they were like running the horses all around.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: Well, and it was your 17th marathon.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: So a round of applause to you.
5:52
SPEAKER_03: I feel like I should just like stop talking about them until I hit 50.
5:54
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm kind of kind of like bored talking about them.
5:57
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah, I ran again.
6:00
SPEAKER_03: People are just losing the they're losing interest.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: Your your likes are going down.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm kidding.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm kidding.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: They really are.
6:06
SPEAKER_03: I I post a picture interested.
6:08
SPEAKER_03: No, it's fine.
6:09
SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't care.
6:10
SPEAKER_03: It's like I have this goal to do 50, I will do 50, and you know, I'll I'll get there eventually.
6:16
SPEAKER_03: Good job.
6:16
SPEAKER_03: Hang in with hang in there with me, guys.
6:18
SPEAKER_03: Good job.
6:18
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for your support.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I had an interesting week as well.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: So I posted a little message.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: We're obviously off a week, um be which has been happening a lot this season.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: I apologize.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: I don't even think we're losing interest.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: We've we're just life is happening.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: We're we've got things.
6:35
SPEAKER_03: We've been bad at wrangling it this season.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: No, we haven't a little, but not terribly.
6:41
SPEAKER_03: We we just like again, things just keep happening at the wrong moments.
6:45
SPEAKER_03: We're like, we'll have a couple weeks where we record back to back or something, and then we're like, okay, great, like we're gonna meet on this day, and then it's just like sickness or travel or a lot of travel.
6:55
SPEAKER_03: Like friends coming into town, like crazy things just keep happening that we don't really plan for well, but we're all right, and work stuff and whatever.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: But um, I went to part of my art to Mexico last week, and that was fun.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: I I literally I don't want to say I almost canceled, I did cancel you did cancel and then rebooked.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: So I started getting sick the Wednesday before we were leaving on a Monday.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: So the Wednesday prior to the Monday.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: And I got sick, yeah.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I'm gonna be better.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, that's like almost a week to get better.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: And um I I was fine, I was fine, I was fine.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, I wasn't fine, but I was getting better, and then um on Saturday, I was like, okay, this is all right, this is okay.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: And then my husband started getting sick.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: Our marketing shit.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, if we're both if if if he had what I had and probably what you had, yeah, it was not pretty.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: He tested negative though, like for COVID and whatever.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, so Sunday morning, I was like, there's no way we can get on an airplane.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I canceled everything and we were going with friends, and that was the worst.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: I had a call, uh, Angie, tennis captain Angie.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: Tennis captain?
8:04
SPEAKER_02: I was so distraught.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: I was truly like shout out, Angie.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: I was in the worst state of mind having to call my good friend to tell her we've been planning a vacation, a couple's retreat, not retreat, but a couple's vacation.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: A couple's vacation to Mexico for like four months to tell her the day before we had to cancel.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: I was like heartbroken.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: And you even called me.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: I called you, I was so upset.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: You were like, I was supposed to watch her dog Penny.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: Everything got canceled.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: And and you were like, hey, I'm sorry, like you don't have to watch Penny anymore.
8:34
SPEAKER_03: And you were like, I don't know what I'm gonna say to Angie.
8:36
SPEAKER_04: Like you were so upset, and I was like, Well, she's gonna understand.
8:38
SPEAKER_04: Like, you could.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: She's the nicest, sweetest woman.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: Like I knew a good friend would never be mad, but it's just disappointing.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's not what you want to hear the day before.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: And of course, in true f fashion, like she was so sympathetic, so just like, get better.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: I understand, we'll have fun for you.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: She's like, Oh, but I'll get Jake a bottle of tequila.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, except Monday, it was like a miracle.
9:00
SPEAKER_03: Magically better.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: Jake was totally fine.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I felt great.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Neither both of us were negative for COVID.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh my god, we made such a bad mistake.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: So Monday evening, I'm I kid you not, five o'clock in the evening, we rescheduled everything.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: We got our miles, we reverted our miles into new flights.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: I called up the hotel, they were very accommodating.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Got us in.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: I got new plans like for for everything.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: We figured it out, and I didn't tell our friends, and we showed up on Tuesday.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: So we were just a day behind.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: And um, I sat down next to her at the pool, and it was like, it was just really funny just to scare them and to pretend.
9:40
SPEAKER_03: I loved your approach because I asked you, I was like, How are you gonna find her?
9:42
SPEAKER_03: Because obviously she's not expecting you.
9:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:44
SPEAKER_03: And you're like, oh, well, like I texted her to tell her like I was sending them a package.
9:47
SPEAKER_03: I was going to.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: That was my plan if I could if I couldn't find my friends at well, it's an all-inclusive resort.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: So you pretty much everyone's hanging out at the pool all day.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at the wherever the bar in the pool is, I'm like, that's where they're gonna be.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: And so we're like, well, let's just sit and like get some food and we'll figure out a plan.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm making up this plan, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna text them and say, you know, I felt so bad about having to cancel.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: We got a delivery for you, but there's an issue in the lobby receiving it.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, can you go down the lobby and meet the delivery guy?
10:15
SPEAKER_02: And it was gonna be me.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, but as we're putting this plan together, I'm like, oh shit, is that Johnny, our friend?
10:21
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, and we're like, oh, it is.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: So first I like scared and was like, uh, excuse me, sir, is there another bar here?
10:27
SPEAKER_02: And it was funny, they both had the same reaction because I got to scare them separately.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: And they were both of them were just like, what the fuck?
10:35
SPEAKER_02: Like most times they looked at me.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: So that was really fun.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: And we just had five days of on the beach.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, not on the beach, it was on the beach, but the pool, yeah, the beach, did nothing.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: Like my schedule was on 11 a.m.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: pina clotta.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, so good.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: We fed raccoons.
10:54
SPEAKER_04: That was cool.
10:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you posted a video of it.
10:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, on my personal account.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I posted a video of there was a taco shop where there was raccoons to feed.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: That was fun.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, I fed an iguana, I got a massage on the beach, and I was great.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: And now that I'm back, I feel like my cough is like I was fine and now emerged.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: I think just after a week of traveling and buffets and nonstop eating and all-inclusive and drinking and everything, it's just like the congestion is coming up.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: So I apologize.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: So all that said, that is why we both sound like shit.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: We've had a tough week.
11:27
SPEAKER_03: It just like keeps going away and then comes back.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: So I don't know when this is gonna end for both of us, but hopefully it won't be too much longer.
11:34
SPEAKER_03: We apologize.
11:36
SPEAKER_03: So sorry about that.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: So sorry about that.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, but okay, so that was our week.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and we've got a story for you tonight.
11:45
SPEAKER_03: We've got a good one.
11:46
SPEAKER_03: I don't think we've had one set in America yet.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: This season.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: This is an E B story, which is a good one.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: EB I was like E B E B.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: I was like, those are my initials.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: What does that stand for?
11:57
SPEAKER_02: No, EB comes up with like I'll I'll reach out and be like, like, who's on our list?
12:03
SPEAKER_02: Who haven't we done?
12:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: And you find these obscure, well, maybe not, maybe I shouldn't call this obscure, but like ones that I'm like, why aren't more people talking about this?
12:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: So let's get people talking about it.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: This is one of the biggest slave rebellions in US history.
12:19
SPEAKER_03: And it's shocking that not a lot of people really know about this story.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: So we're excited to bring it to you today.
12:24
SPEAKER_03: And Megan is gonna kick it off with early life.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: We are talking about Nat Turner this evening.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: Morning.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Afternoon.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Nat was born October 2nd.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: I'll laugh.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: Nat was born October 2nd, 1800.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: He was born into slavery in the South.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Southampton, Virginia.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: Virginia.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: Let me just read the whole thing.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Nat Turner was born on October 2nd, 1800, in Southampton County, Virginia.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: And he was born into slavery.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: His mother was a slave who came directly from Africa.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: And his father, we don't know a lot about him, and neither did Nat.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: Nat didn't know a lot about his father, but what we do know is he escaped as a slave.
13:15
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: Which is kind of reassuring to hear.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: You never hear of like the successful escape story.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: So it came from some strong blood, clearly.
13:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: And as a kid, that has an effect on you to know that it's possible to escape.
13:28
SPEAKER_03: I never thought of that.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure that was always on the back of his mind.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:31
SPEAKER_03: It's possible.
13:32
SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, you know.
13:32
SPEAKER_03: My dad did it.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: You're you almost see your dad as kind of a superhero.
13:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:35
SPEAKER_03: It's like he and my father's son.
13:36
SPEAKER_03: So he left this life, you know.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Terrible life.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: Um he he grew up in a obviously like a plant a plantation rural area.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: There was actually more um black people than white people in this area at the time, which is uh kind of an important thing to remember.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: And yet the the blacks are still oppressed, they are still slaves, they're not free.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: It's a very sad time in America.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: We do not condone this.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: His first slave owner was Benjamin Turner, and he actually documented Nat being born, which is good that we know his date and all of that.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say his date of birth, that's important.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: And uh which is interesting.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: So his slave owner was Benjamin Turner, and so Nat takes on the name as Nat Turner.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: It's just like how, how depressing.
14:17
SPEAKER_03: Like they take on the last name of and I think a lot of people forget that, even in like American sci society today, it's like a lot of African Americans like have these white last names because we remember that like they were brought over from Africa and they were immediately put into slavery.
14:34
SPEAKER_03: And what did they do?
14:35
SPEAKER_03: They renamed them, they gave them names of like the plantation you're serving on.
14:39
SPEAKER_03: We're not originally Smith and White and Right, you know, and it's it's sometimes kind of cool to see when you when you see um you know a black American with the last name of like Freeman because you know they renamed themselves as like a free man.
14:52
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
14:53
SPEAKER_03: So it's like I've had to explain that to people sometimes, like just who don't like understand kind of the context of it.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, sure, over generations, maybe that sentiment fades, and maybe it's now your family name that you've adopted and all of that, but it's like you kind of have to remember, like, hey, we all came from somewhere, and like that might have not necessarily been your like given name at a certain point.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: Sad.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so his owner, Benjamin Turner, he dies, and in 1810, Benjamin's son, Samuel Turner, inherits all of his father's slaves, including Nat.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: So Nat's only 10 years old at the time.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: Now he has a new owner.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: What's so cool about Nat though, very unusual for a young slave at this time, is he knows how to read, he can write, he's very intelligent.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: He's known for being, you I think you had the quote of what someone called him.
15:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they said he had a natural intelligence and quickness of apprehension surpassed by few.
15:48
SPEAKER_03: So, like, not only is he just again well, well learned, well read, like he's smarter than most people around him by far.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: He was also very religious.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: He was often seen praying, reading the Bible, and fasting, even.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: And uh even from a young age, he starts having vis visions and messages from God.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: Um and Elizabeth will get a little bit more into that, but first let me just describe him.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: So what's in vision young Nat is now in his early 20s.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: He's a young, dashing man.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: His description, he was between 5'6 to 5'8.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: He was about 150 to 160 pounds and pretty thin and slim built.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, he had no beard, but he had um hair on his upper lip, like a little mustache, and a beard on the top of his chin.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Right.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Like a little goatee.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: There we go.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, excuse me.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: He had like a little goatee.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: Um he had a scar on his temple, like a knot is what they called it on his right arm, pro from an injury, but probably from like a blow or some like slavery.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: And then his skin tone was pretty light, not what you they would call um I think it was called mulatto.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
17:02
SPEAKER_03: Which meant you were like you were mixed.
17:04
SPEAKER_03: You weren't just African, you were like usually mixed with white or maybe even mixed with like I think sp well Spanish blood, they had a different term for that.
17:11
SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, that's what he looked like.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: So now he's in his early twenties.
17:18
SPEAKER_03: And uh so it's the years 1821 at this point, and he finally thinks he's old enough to do what his father did and escape.
17:26
SPEAKER_03: So he escapes from Samuel, his owner.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: Um, but then when he's off, like into kind of the world on his own, he starts to get in this kind of delirious state, like maybe from hunger, but he's he claims to have had another vision while he's out and about.
17:42
SPEAKER_03: And he says that God is telling him to actually return back to his quote unquote earthly master.
17:48
SPEAKER_03: Um, so he interprets this not just as like, oh, like I have a dutiful right to go back to my owner, but he more so interprets it like I have a bigger role here.
17:57
SPEAKER_03: Like there's something I'm missing that I need to go back home for to decide like what my larger purpose is.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: And just like a quick caveat, like, you know, if we use the term master, like we don't condone that term, like that's an that's a term that's recently been like I think taken out of a lot of the word for it.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: No, I think expunge means something else.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: Like, but it's been removed from a lot of like American dialect because like even saying something like, oh, like the the master bedroom, it's like now you say primary bedroom because a lot of that like like type It's a reflection of that time.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like just exactly it reflects like the slave like master um relationship.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: So these days it's very common in like American society to like take out that word master, like even in like coding language for computers, it's like we don't really need these words anymore.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: So just FYI, if that slips out, that's because it's more of a reflection of this like time period, not necessarily like our verbiage day-to-day.
18:51
SPEAKER_03: Um anyway, but so he has, but he specifically hit that's a quote from him is that he needs to go back to his earthly master.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: So he returns back to the plantation, returns back to the family, um, and then at some point in his early 20s, he also gets married, which we have to remember too, like marriage wasn't necessarily like a sanctioned thing that they were allowed to do as slaves.
19:12
SPEAKER_03: Um they so he married a young woman named either Cherry or Chari.
19:17
SPEAKER_03: Um there's some dispute amongst historians, like, you know, who she was, but we know at some point, like he he was in fact like you know, married to this woman and had a couple of kids with her.
19:27
SPEAKER_03: This is a direct quote from an article, it's not us making it up.
19:30
SPEAKER_03: One to three kids, okay?
19:31
SPEAKER_03: Don't get me started.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: For one to three dedicated listeners on pest episodes, you might realize we have a a trend of being like anywhere between like five to ten kids.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: This was a direct quote from a historian said one to three.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: So anytime we we do the range, we are being historians.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: We are all encompassing, we are taking it all into account.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: Like there was definitely one kid, but there might have been three.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: They think it was what, two boys and a girl?
19:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they know for sure there was a girl, and so they say it was either one girl and maybe a boy who passed away young, or like one girl, two boys.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: Or just one girl.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: One boy.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: Or one conjoined twin, a boy and a girl.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: And that's why.
20:15
SPEAKER_02: We're Siamese twins, and that's why there's a dispute among historians.
20:19
SPEAKER_04: Sorry, I'm being silly.
20:21
SPEAKER_04: This is why this is why we're not credible, Megan.
20:23
SPEAKER_04: That's why we can't.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: Because we start making stories like this on the fly.
20:28
SPEAKER_03: Um, but by 1823, um Samuel, his his owner, had died.
20:34
SPEAKER_03: Um, so Nat is then sold to a man named Thomas More.
20:38
SPEAKER_03: No relation.
20:39
SPEAKER_03: No relation.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: Although I don't know, I have to check my text.
20:42
SPEAKER_03: But I was gonna say, yeah, maybe, maybe he was in fact related, but we don't think so.
20:47
SPEAKER_03: Um I'm gonna say no to that.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: An American named Thomas More.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Um, and unfortunately, his wife Cherry was then sold to a different owner.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: So they were kind of split up because they were in the same household, and now they're here in two different households.
21:00
SPEAKER_03: So she was sold with her kids um to a man named Giles Reese.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: Giles.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: I had to get started.
21:08
SPEAKER_02: I had a feeling it'd be like.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Also, a flashback to all of our Salem episodes.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: It's the never-ending controversy.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Controversy?
21:16
SPEAKER_02: Controversy.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: The never ending controversy.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Sean Carrie.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: There's more wine in that.
21:21
SPEAKER_04: There's not, is there?
21:22
SPEAKER_04: Oh damn.
21:23
SPEAKER_04: Did we drink all that?
21:24
SPEAKER_04: We drank this one.
21:25
SPEAKER_03: Can I use it?
21:26
SPEAKER_02: There's that one.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: This one's open.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh god, they're judging us.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: Who?
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Them.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth's poured more wine.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Um the never never ending debate between the two of us.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: I want to do a poll.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: I want to do an online poll.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: Giles versus Giles.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Is it it's Giles?
21:44
SPEAKER_02: I think it is.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: I think we learned that in our last Salem episode.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: Because you corrected me in the first, first, well, the second episode.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: I did.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: And you said, no, it's Giles.
21:54
SPEAKER_03: I just know that as a last name, but I don't know.
21:57
SPEAKER_03: I don't know any more claims.
21:59
SPEAKER_03: All right.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, Giles.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Gil's slash Giles Reese.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna say Giles Reese because it sounds better.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: So that was that was Nat's wife and children were sent off to Gil's.
22:11
SPEAKER_03: Okay, now we're just gonna do a new interpretation of that.
22:15
SPEAKER_03: We'll call him Reese.
22:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's just call him Reese.
22:17
SPEAKER_03: So Reese now has possession of the wife and kids.
22:20
SPEAKER_03: Good.
22:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, not good.
22:21
SPEAKER_03: That's terrible.
22:21
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, naked.
22:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm more or less good like we got that out.
22:26
SPEAKER_03: We said the sentence.
22:27
SPEAKER_03: Um but but at this point, um Nat starts to really get into kind of preaching to fellow slaves.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: Um he's talking a lot about like different Bible verses and he's interpreting them in new ways.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: Um and he's getting very popular amongst like um not just slaves, but some some white folks that are kind of around the plantation too.
22:47
SPEAKER_03: And everyone starts dubbing him the prophet.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: And um even like um some of the white people that attended his sermons said, like, thank you for for like letting us see the light, like for basically putting it like an end to our wickedness.
22:59
SPEAKER_03: Like they started to seeing like their ways as like white owners and things like as wicked.
23:04
SPEAKER_03: Um, so he's really getting through to people, and he continues to have these visions like all the way through pretty much the next five to seven years.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Um, and he starts telling people about certain things he's seeing.
23:15
SPEAKER_03: And a lot of his visions, too, I want to like explain, they're not just like hallucinations he has.
23:20
SPEAKER_03: Like what he does is he really takes signs and omens from like the natural world.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: So he sees things around him, and then he says, Like, I have this gift of prophecy.
23:29
SPEAKER_03: So even though you just see a field, like I see something greater here, or like you see the moonlight, like I see a sign from God.
23:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, so he starts to get very vocal about what he's seeing.
23:39
SPEAKER_03: And in 1828, he even says that God directly told him, Um, the time was fast approaching when the first should be last and the last should be first.
23:50
SPEAKER_03: So he knows that something big is coming.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: So by the time he's about 30, he's then purchased by it another gentleman, another master.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: Oh jeez.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: I know, named Joseph Travis, who he actually called a kind master.
24:02
SPEAKER_03: I think of all the masters, he said that like he was the most fond of this man.
24:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, but he's still seeing these signs and knowing that something's kind of on the brink of happening here.
24:11
SPEAKER_03: So in 1831, he finally sees this eclipse, which you know, anyone who's seen, like, I think this is a lunar eclipse, it's like, you know, obviously this big darkness that comes over the sun.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: Solar eclipse.
24:23
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you're right, excuse me.
24:24
SPEAKER_03: Solar eclipse.
24:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, so he sees this and he's convinced at this point that God wants him to lead a rebellion because he says that this eclipse looks like a black man's hand, like essentially reaching over the sun.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: It's, you know, a black fist or like kind of a black, um, a powerful movement.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: So he starts to kind of gather a few followers, a few of people, um few people who are loyal to his sermons, and say, hey, like, it's time.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: We need to start planning this and making making something happen.
24:54
SPEAKER_03: And this was an interesting thing, but they start spreading word of these plans through songs, like, because it's a very kind of discreet way to spread information without the owners knowing.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: And it kind of reminds me of like, sorry for the stupid reference, but like Hunger Games, you know, with like the the hanging tree song.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Are you?
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Are you coming to the tree?
25:20
SPEAKER_01: They strung up a man, they say who murdered three.
25:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
25:25
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know what I mean?
25:26
SPEAKER_03: So they start to like have these kind of cryptic messages through songs.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: Or, oh, sorry not to interrupt, but what else it reminds me of is um oh my god, hold on.
25:35
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what's coming out of your mouth.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, you'll know it.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: It's on the tip of my tongue.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: Pirates sing it.
25:43
SPEAKER_03: Oh, we sang that before on this podcast.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, good.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: We sing songs.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: I think we sang that on our um it's like in the singing and he's at the gallows.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: It's yo, ho all together.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: We sang that in like our third episode ever.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, but that was like another hidden message song where it's like if you knew the song, right?
26:05
SPEAKER_02: You were you knew what was going on, and it was a secret code.
26:09
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: And it was kind of the way of like, are you in or are you not in?
26:13
SPEAKER_02: And if you knew what it was, you're like, you'd start singing it, and you're like, I'm I'm in.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: We need a song like that.
26:19
SPEAKER_03: We'll think of one.
26:20
SPEAKER_03: Little beheaded song.
26:25
SPEAKER_04: Sounds like la cucaracha.
26:28
SPEAKER_04: That was American Southwest.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: That was the intro of a Mexican hat dance.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: No, it was the never mind, it was the harp side.
26:35
SPEAKER_04: I know, I know, you're trying to do the harps chord.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: It's hard to do verbally.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: I understand.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay, sorry, continue with I'm gonna pour more wines.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay, go ahead.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: Continue with the story, please.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, gotta wait for you.
26:46
SPEAKER_03: That was automatic.
26:48
SPEAKER_03: Um, so again, they start spreading word like through these songs, and they officially get a date pinned down of like, when are we gonna do this?
26:55
SPEAKER_03: And what date did they initially choose?
26:57
SPEAKER_03: What better day than July 4th?
26:59
SPEAKER_03: Independence day.
27:00
SPEAKER_03: Independence day.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: Because to them that means something entirely different.
27:03
SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, you Americans, you white Americans, uh, you know, announced your independence from Britain on July 4th.
27:10
SPEAKER_03: We, the black Americans, you know, because at this point a lot of them are now born in America, like we're gonna create our own independence day on July 4th.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: But unfortunately, Nat fell ill, much like Megan and Elizabeth.
27:25
SPEAKER_03: He was probably preaching to them on July 3rd, and they're like, sir, you sound like Coral Deville's vehicle.
27:31
SPEAKER_03: Can you go sit down?
27:33
SPEAKER_03: So he fell ill and they couldn't actually execute the plan on July 4th.
27:38
SPEAKER_03: Oh no.
27:38
SPEAKER_03: So some time passes, um, and you know, enough time allows him to get better.
27:43
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so we are approaching August of the same year, August 1831.
27:48
SPEAKER_03: And the Virginia sun on this specific day, August 13th, looks a little bit blue-green, and they said it was from a nearby volcano explosion, which we got conflicting reports on which volcano.
28:00
SPEAKER_03: I read it was one from Sicily.
28:03
SPEAKER_03: I read it was one from St.
28:04
SPEAKER_03: Helena.
28:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which is in Washington State.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: So either way, that's a far distance.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: Out of everything I learned tonight, mind blown that there's a volcano in America.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: She goes, she goes, Oh, it's from Mount St.
28:16
SPEAKER_03: Helena in Sicily.
28:18
SPEAKER_03: I was like, that's in Washington State in the US.
28:20
SPEAKER_03: I had no idea.
28:21
SPEAKER_03: And she goes, there's a volcano in the US.
28:23
SPEAKER_03: But also, Megan, Hawaii.
28:25
SPEAKER_03: It's probably closer than Washington.
28:28
SPEAKER_03: No.
28:28
SPEAKER_03: No, Washington's closer than Hawaii.
28:30
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
28:31
SPEAKER_03: But I'm saying, like, the you know, they're volcanic islands.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, obviously there's volcanoes in Hawaii.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: I was just there in Mexico.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: Your geography's a bit skewed.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm just kidding.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm not that stupid.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: No, I get it.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: But either way, I think this is far from a volcano to have ashes spread across the sky.
28:51
SPEAKER_03: But whatever, that's what history tells us.
28:53
SPEAKER_03: So on August 13th, he looks up at the sun.
28:56
SPEAKER_03: It's this blue-green, and now he took it as a sign and he said, Okay, a week from today, we need to begin.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: Which brings us to August 21st, uh, 1831.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: I love how he uses all these atmospheric signals.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's like a like an astrologist.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, very much like an astrology of the solar eclipse.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: And also going back to that, imagine how scary that would have been not knowing what a solar or a lunar eclipse was.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: And then for that to happen, and it only happens over the span of like what a minute or so.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then it kind of goes away.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: How frightening if you have no idea what's going on and everything just turns dark.
29:34
SPEAKER_03: It's so true.
29:35
SPEAKER_03: Because if you think about it in like today's regard, like we know about eclipses like a week before they happen, right?
29:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:40
SPEAKER_03: It's like all over the news, like, get ready for the lunar eclipse, the solar eclipse.
29:44
SPEAKER_03: Like for solar ones, it's like you have to get the specialty glasses and all that.
29:47
SPEAKER_03: Don't look at the sun.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: Like there's so much prep involved, and then you know, but if you never are familiar with those events or know they're gonna happen and you're alone in a field and you're like, oh my god, yeah, and it just randomly happens.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I would think the end times were coming too.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: I would say this is a sign of something.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: It's true.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what, but well, now luckily we have AI bots to tell us when the end is coming.
30:09
SPEAKER_02: So August 21st, he decides because there's the the greenish blue of the sun, this is our next sign.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: And this is a great day for a rebellion.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: So he he had a few other slaves in the neighborhood who were already in on the plan from the communication of songs, which Elizabeth explained.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, their names were Henry, Hark, Nelson, and Sam.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: I had their names.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: Are you impressed?
30:34
SPEAKER_02: That's very impressive.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know you had that.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: I was keeping that little piece hidden to myself.
30:38
SPEAKER_03: I like the name Hark.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: I kind of like that too.
30:40
SPEAKER_03: That's cute.
30:41
SPEAKER_03: What a lost name in history.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: Do you know anyone named Hark?
30:43
SPEAKER_03: Hark as a cute name.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh they start with going to his master's house, Joseph Travis, who again he called quote unquote the kind master.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:55
SPEAKER_02: Didn't matter on this day.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: Nope.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: He goes in with his buddies, and uh, mind you, they don't have any artillery because they don't want to make noise.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: They want to be very discreet about this.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:05
SPEAKER_02: So they're using knives, hatchets.
31:07
SPEAKER_02: He has a sword.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: I don't know where he got a sword from, but good for him.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: From God.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: And then Godrick Griffindor.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: Mostly um things to bludgeon, wood, post, that kind of thing.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: First, they go into Joseph Travis's house and they murder him, his wife, their nine-year-old son, and their hired help, who is a white woman.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Then they go on to the next house.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: However, they remember there was another member of the family, a small baby of the Travis family.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: So two of the of the slaves go back and they then murder the baby by there was one account saying they threw it in a threw him in a fire, or maybe he, I don't know.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: We don't need to go into that.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: But so they go back for the baby.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: And that it doesn't stop there.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: So this is one of probably the largest rebellion in Southern American history.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: So they go from house to house to all the different white houses, and there's no discrimination at this point.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: They are murdering the the men, women, children, the wives, like all ages, anyone, any age, anyone they're coming across.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: And what they're doing is they're going in, you know, murdering the family, and then all of their slaves are now joining the rebellion.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: So they're getting up to about 60 to 70 people in their rebellion who are going from house to house and just taking over.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: Now, interestingly enough, the one house that they avoided was Giles Reese.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: Giles Reese, Giles Reese, probably because Nat Turner's wife and children were at that estate.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:48
SPEAKER_02: And he just didn't want to get them involved in any way.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Very strategic here.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, their goal was to spread terror and alarm amongst the white people and just kill all white people.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: This was a long, I mean, this is over 200 years of oppression.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: This was boiling up.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: It was everyone who's tortured them and and torn apart their families and terrible, terrible, terrible period of history in America.
33:15
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
33:16
SPEAKER_03: And I think at that point, because you know, people were used to it for a couple hundred years, like used to the idea of slavery, like, unfortunately, a lot of white owners thought, like, hey, this is the way of the world.
33:26
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, these Africans are just content with their place and like they know that they're here to serve, and we know that they're here to be, or like they're here to serve us.
33:35
SPEAKER_03: And so it was just this such accepted thing of like, yeah, like this is their lot in life.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, probably blindsided that they would want to rebel against them, yeah, thinking that they were doing them a favor by clothing them and giving them food and and a shelter and letting them read quote unquote work uh work to do or jobs to have.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, no, this was a long time coming of a lot of oppression and a lot of anger.
33:58
SPEAKER_03: Right.
33:59
SPEAKER_03: And another really quick point, too, because I know Megan just said that you know, the one house that they avoided was the Reese household, but the other like Yeah, the other thing that they did skip was they didn't attack any like poor white households because in their eyes, they were like these, you know, the the very poor white people were no, they they didn't deem themselves as superior to black people.
34:21
SPEAKER_03: They were essentially just on the same level.
34:24
SPEAKER_03: They're like, no, these people are kind of art people, like they know what oppression is like, they know what it's like to be in the society, so they left them alone.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: But probably not quite, they weren't s enslaved, but regardless, they avoid they avoided those houses.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: Exactly, yeah.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, eventually they got three companies of artillery of the militia to come and take down this rebellion.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: And there was about what double the amount of white people in the militia taking out the about 60 to 70 black people.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: In the end, though, this rebellion killed up to 60 people, of again men, women, and children.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: A lot of the of the people who were suspected to be in the rebellion were beheaded, and that's where this we're gonna start.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is unfortunately a story of execution.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: What's really sad is they weren't even all guilty.
35:15
SPEAKER_02: They weren't even they were just suspected.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: There was no jury, there was no trial.
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, and their severed heads were mounted on poles at the crossroads, yeah.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: Completely as a form of intimidation.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: Take it just reminds me of Tower Bridge.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: It does.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: As a reminder, we do not, we do not uh, you know, um condone these actions or what's the word I'm trying to think of?
35:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm having a brain lapse.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Put up with treason.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: Like we yeah, condone these acts.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: Like we don't um we won't accept this behavior.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: And and now it's there's actually a si it's a street name.
35:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a street name.
35:53
SPEAKER_03: Um so like modern day Virginia, it's uh it's street route six uh five eight, but there's also a sign that has a street name that says blackhead signpost.
36:05
SPEAKER_03: So they kind of did that as like, hey, like this is where it happens.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: It's a s and it looks like a regular street sign, it's blackhead signpost road.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:12
SPEAKER_02: And that is, yeah, that's where all the heads were lined up.
36:15
SPEAKER_03: To this day.
36:16
SPEAKER_03: And we have to remember that, like, sure, this was kind of common in obviously European society, especially British society, where we had these severed heads, you know, on Tower Bridge and all of that.
36:26
SPEAKER_03: That felt so long ago.
36:27
SPEAKER_03: It did feel so long ago, and where this is like 1800s America, where that's supposed to be archaic and like in the past, and we don't do beheadings anymore, and here they are just like instilling the same fear, like, hey, this is what happens to traitors.
36:41
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, whoa, like to go to that level is just you know, it was crazy.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: And of course, the rumor spread about how bad this rebellion is, right?
36:50
SPEAKER_02: Because they're starting, you know, all the white people are um first of all, they're scared.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and they're kind of creating the story of yes, it was bad, but they want to make it sound as bad as possible to ensure that everybody's on their same agenda of putting this to an end.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: So eventually the rumors start spreading that the rebel went all the way to South Alabama and all the way up to North Carolina, right?
37:15
SPEAKER_02: So it's spreading across multiple states, and that wasn't the case.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: It really contained itself inside of Southampton County, Virginia.
37:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I mean, like I said, all the white people were really scared that this could happen again.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: And just realizing the power, I mean, again, they were outnumbered by black people.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: They were scared, and so for two weeks after the rebellion, this is really sad.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: They continued to slaughter black people out of fear, right?
37:44
SPEAKER_02: Under susp like along how I said, you know, all these people were beheaded.
37:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:49
SPEAKER_02: There were up to 200 people.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: Not all, like clearly, not all of them were involved.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: There was only about sixty to seventy in the rebellion.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: Right.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: But over 200 people were murdered in those two weeks.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: In two weeks' time.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: Just on the streets.
38:05
SPEAKER_02: People were like, oh my gosh, there's a black person who just looked at me.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna go I'm just gonna go and kill them.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:12
SPEAKER_03: And it's also like one of those things where you could probably just kind of carry out any specific grudge that you had against a black person.
38:19
SPEAKER_03: Like if you're, you know, a white person in this time and then you hear about this rebellion, and there's like, you know, the specific person that you're thinking of that's always been either rude to you or headed out for you, it's like, oh, this is my excuse to go and get him.
38:30
SPEAKER_03: It becomes very much like a witch of a witch hunt at this point.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: They quote called it a slaughter of many blacks without a trial.
38:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it became a witch hunt, and they were their goal was to drastically reduce the black population in their county, which is ironic because it's like, well, aren't these your who's holding up your economy right now by doing all of your household and farm work for you?
38:54
SPEAKER_03: But okay.
38:55
SPEAKER_03: And it's it's crazy because unfortunately, obviously, black people at this time were seen as property.
39:00
SPEAKER_03: So a lot of folks too had to kind of like file like insurance claims.
39:05
SPEAKER_03: They got reimbursed by the state.
39:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, paid by the state.
39:08
SPEAKER_03: Like, oh, you lost your property.
39:10
SPEAKER_03: Like, here's yeah, reimbursement for your lost property.
39:13
SPEAKER_03: So who knows again if some of these people just didn't say, Oh, well, you know, here's my chance to kind of like murdering to get money for their quote lost property.
39:20
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
39:21
SPEAKER_02: Dehumanizing Kenny B.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: Finally, General Epps of the state, he requested, like, just calm the fuck down.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: He he put a stop.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: He made a legal stop after this two weeks when the slaughter slaughtering just got out of control.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: He said, You all need to stop.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: There will be no more murder, there will be no more slaughtering without trials.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: And then they started rounding up for the trials.
39:46
SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
39:47
SPEAKER_03: And Turner himself actually eluded capture for about six weeks.
39:51
SPEAKER_03: Um, even you know, Cherry, his wife was taken, she was beaten, she was tortured to give up his location, and she never did.
39:58
SPEAKER_03: So it kind of happened just by sheer happenstance, which we thought was odd that he even decided to like stay in Southampton County.
40:05
SPEAKER_03: Like, wouldn't you leave?
40:06
SPEAKER_03: Maybe like try and run away from all this.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: But don't I think he left knowing that his wife and children were captured and were being interrogated and tortured trying trying to get information.
40:18
SPEAKER_02: The only real like statement we have from Cherry is her saying that Nat had been digesting a plan for years.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: Um which I mean you can't blame a woman when you're under torture and being beaten to not say something about your husband.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: Right.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, that was really all she said is just digesting a plan, which is a funny use I that's an interesting choice of words.
40:41
SPEAKER_03: I know, right?
40:42
SPEAKER_03: Of all the things you could say, digesting a plan.
40:44
SPEAKER_03: Digesting a plan for years.
40:47
SPEAKER_03: Um but he was eventually found, Turner was found um by a farmer named Benjamin Phipps.
40:53
SPEAKER_03: So he was kind of hiding out like near the Travis property, and this farmer found him, and he was immediately sent to prison, and he never quite confessed to like any actions he took, but he did confess to like knowing about the rebellion.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: So two different things.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: I heard about it.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: And he was found on October 30th.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: In kind of what they called a cave, but it wasn't really a cave.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: He made his own cave as a form of hiding.
41:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
41:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then on October 31st, he was brought to prison.
41:21
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
41:21
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
41:22
SPEAKER_03: And then so November 5th, he was officially tried, and he was tried for conspiracy to rebel and making insurrection.
41:30
SPEAKER_03: So he was obviously convicted and he was sentenced to death by hanging.
41:34
SPEAKER_02: And if no, no murder in there.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:38
SPEAKER_02: However, he it was believed he only murdered one person out of this whole thing.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: Margaret Whitehead.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: Ironic, her name.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm just thinking because the blackhead versus whitehead.
41:49
SPEAKER_02: That is.
41:50
SPEAKER_02: Because there was the blackhead sign.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: And then, or what do they call it?
41:54
SPEAKER_02: Blackhead post.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: Blackhead sign post.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: And then um her name is Margaret Whitehead, which supposedly Nat Turner killed her by bludgeoning her with a um offense post.
42:05
SPEAKER_03: Right, exactly.
42:07
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so when they asked him if he regretted anything, once he was given his sentence, all he answered was, was Christ not crucified?
42:16
SPEAKER_03: And I thought that was so interesting because when he was taken to prison, the prison, the um the prison he was sent to was in Jerusalem, Virginia.
42:24
SPEAKER_02: What?
42:25
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that was intentional or was that just I don't know.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Like I have thought of that just because he obviously stayed around the area, and yes, maybe it was for his wife and kids, but maybe he saw some sort of symbolism, you know, attached to that city, and he was like, Hey, if it's gonna happen, I mean I'm not gonna be in, you know, Georgia.
42:43
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm gonna stay right here in Jerusalem, Virginia.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they called him the prophet.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: He did all of all of this through visions and signs and communication from God.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it is very omniscient that he is then sent to Jerusalem, exactly, Virginia.
42:59
SPEAKER_02: Right.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Um he was sentenced to death.
43:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh so he was tried on November 5th, had a pretty quick sentencing, and then November 11th is the day of his execution.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
43:13
SPEAKER_03: Uh so November 11th, he was hanged, and then after he was dead by hanging, he was beheaded, which again, as we just said, like kind of a weird way to like instill fear to the rest of people who were seeing this.
43:26
SPEAKER_03: And it is believed he was either there, there's different quotes here, but either dissected or quartered, like they literally cut off his limbs after that.
43:35
SPEAKER_03: Um, and we're pretty sure he was like flayed, like he was skinned.
43:39
SPEAKER_03: And some accounts even say that out of his skin, purses were made.
43:45
SPEAKER_03: Like we've we joke about like, oh, that's an execution, and there's execution merch that you can buy, but there's a few accounts of like them actually using his like his his stretched flayed skin to make souvenir bags.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: So, like, I don't I don't think this I don't feel it right in my bones to joke about merch on type of scenario.
44:06
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
44:07
SPEAKER_03: But it's like a form of like, you know, human collection of like I was here, like eyewitnessed this traitor, you know, being hanged, and I'm here to like, you know, here's my proof.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: It was a way to like boast about like, oh well, there was a guy who got out of line, but we caught him, we did this, we got him.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: And here's the proof.
44:25
SPEAKER_02: Here's his skin.
44:26
SPEAKER_02: That's sick.
44:27
SPEAKER_03: It's pretty disgusting.
44:29
SPEAKER_03: I wonder, and again, like not to make a joke about it, but I'm truly curious, like, if any of those bags have actually survived to this day.
44:36
SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's a joke.
44:37
SPEAKER_03: I think that's a legit question.
44:39
SPEAKER_03: Like, does human skin last that long?
44:41
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't imagine.
44:43
SPEAKER_03: I also does it decay?
44:45
SPEAKER_03: Is it like, what do you call it?
44:46
SPEAKER_03: Like soaked in formaldehyde?
44:48
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
44:49
SPEAKER_03: But that's just purely a curious question, not like a ha ha joke question.
44:53
SPEAKER_03: I just think it's like odd that they would make those and then like what those exist in the world.
44:58
SPEAKER_03: Like you keep that on you on a Sunday?
45:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, also we think about American history and yes, in American executions, there's been hangings, firing squad, electrocution like electric chair people.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, but there's never beheadings, uh drawn and quarterings.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: No.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: Those really gruesome things that we've talked about before because I mean America in the larger sense of history is pretty new.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: Right.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: And so, I mean, it's I I suppose on one sense, like more humane that they hanged him first and then did this.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't a drawn and quartering.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it wasn't where they hang just enough just to continue on with the torturing.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: Right.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: But the fact that they did these gruesome acts afterwards as a point of display and to make a point, um, I've just never heard about this in American history before.
45:51
SPEAKER_02: Ever.
45:52
SPEAKER_02: And of course, their target for this is a black slave.
45:55
SPEAKER_02: It's just it's a very demeaning and animalistic way to tear, like quite literally tear somebody apart.
46:05
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: You know, in a country that was built on like, oh, we're different than the old world and we don't have these archaic beliefs.
46:12
SPEAKER_03: Not that different.
46:13
SPEAKER_03: Not that different.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: Pretty archaic and get with the times.
46:17
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
46:18
SPEAKER_02: Along with Nat Turner, there were 30 other slaves who were tried.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, like a formal trial.
46:25
SPEAKER_02: So there was like the up to 200 who were still slaughtered and murdered.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna call it murdered because they weren't even a part of the rebellion.
46:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
46:32
SPEAKER_02: It's just by association and by the color of their skin.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: There were 30 others who were actually tried.
46:38
SPEAKER_02: 19 of those were hay of those.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think they were all men.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm assuming they might have been.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: It didn't specify.
46:44
SPEAKER_03: Right.
46:44
SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of them were, but there could have been some women in there.
46:47
SPEAKER_03: Excuse me.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: Nineteen others were hanged alongside Nat Turner.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: Of course, Nat being the ringleader, he was the only one who had the full display of the the aftermath.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: And then the others were sold off far away so that they were outside of this neighborhood.
47:03
SPEAKER_02: Which, I mean, to be banished like that, just sold back into slavery, you're away from any family you've had, any any kids, anyway.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: There's no way to communicate with those people anymore.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's great that their lives were saved, but they were it's just as it's a punishment still.
47:19
SPEAKER_02: Right.
47:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and what's interesting is like, you know, a lot of historians kind of debate what effect this had on society.
47:26
SPEAKER_03: And there's a few different ways to think about this.
47:28
SPEAKER_03: Like the immediate effect wasn't great because the first thing that happened was like, like, especially I think it was the Virginia, um, I don't know if we want to call it Congress, but legislation.
47:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like, yeah, the legislators in Virginia all got together.
47:42
SPEAKER_03: And right before this had happened, they were already kind of debating whether or not they should abolish slavery.
47:46
SPEAKER_03: Ugh.
47:47
SPEAKER_03: And I feel like it was on the cusp of like, yeah, maybe slavery's bad.
47:50
SPEAKER_03: And this sent it back over the other way where the pendulum swung to like, no, we need to keep people enslaved because look at what's happening out there.
47:58
SPEAKER_03: So all of a sudden, all these new laws were enacted, like no slave could get a trial, period.
48:04
SPEAKER_02: Why, so you can fight against rebellions even more?
48:07
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, exactly.
48:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then because they knew Nat Turner was obviously a very intelligent, well-read man who could read and write and was very well spoken, they immediately say, no slave from here on out is allowed to read.
48:20
SPEAKER_03: And like, obviously, if you can't read, you can't write, you know, but but at least You can't spread propaganda, you can't learn new things.
48:27
SPEAKER_02: But that's also taking away the Bible.
48:28
SPEAKER_02: That's taking a few years ago.
48:30
SPEAKER_03: You're taking away like so much, you know, sources for for any kind of free thought.
48:35
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then they also say even free black people can be sold back into slavery if they are like if they do conduct a criminal act.
48:44
SPEAKER_02: And who knows what that criminal act could be anything.
48:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, looking at someone wrong, like, oh, I know you stole this, like, uh no, I didn't.
48:50
SPEAKER_03: Okay, you're back into slavery.
48:52
SPEAKER_02: Like just took it back 10 steps.
48:54
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: Um funny enough, Thomas Jefferson's grandson, Thomas Jefferson Randolph, he was a part of this legislation.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: And thank goodness he was on the side of saying, like, his point of view and the people who followed him, he said, no, we we should emancipate the black slaves and allow them all to go back to Africa.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: Like if that's their wish.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: Let's just undo what's or like we're so far into this mess.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Let's try to undo it and let them go wherever they want to go.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: If that means going back home to Africa.
49:26
SPEAKER_02: And then the other half, which was of course the slave owners, were the ones who said, no, no, no, no, no, let's implement these three laws that Elizabeth said the taking away the education, um, being able to sell back into slavery, and then having no jury trials for them.
49:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
49:42
SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, that was what was voted for as a yes.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: So again, a very disappointing and I think an embarrassing point in American history, but um, you know, it happened.
49:54
SPEAKER_03: It did.
49:54
SPEAKER_03: And the one like kind of silver lining of all of this, though, is it did obviously fuel the fire of the slaves that had get had to get back into slavery after all this happened.
50:04
SPEAKER_03: And it really helped with the people like, you know, Thomas Jefferson's grandson fight for things that culminated to the Civil War.
50:12
SPEAKER_03: So 30 years later, um, you know, in the 1860s, that's when the Civil War was, and that's when there was the official like all-out war over like, you know, over the North versus South over slavery.
50:24
SPEAKER_03: Like, what what does this mean?
50:25
SPEAKER_03: Like, who are we as a society?
50:26
SPEAKER_03: What do we stand for?
50:27
SPEAKER_03: So at least, like, yes, it we took some steps back right away, but like the spirit of Nat Turner kind of stayed with everybody, like that sense of rebellion, that sense of like, no, we want to be free and we'll fight for our freedom.
50:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:39
SPEAKER_03: At least, like, stuck around for a few decades to the point where it just bubbled over and the civil war happened.
50:44
SPEAKER_03: So a lot of historians again will debate like, was this good in the context of history?
50:48
SPEAKER_03: Was this bad?
50:49
SPEAKER_03: It was both, right?
50:50
SPEAKER_03: Like, bad things came out of it right away because obviously there's gonna be a crackdown.
50:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and of course, like nobody likes to see her stories of innocent women, children, whoever being killed.
50:59
SPEAKER_02: Right.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: But also, like, you've gotta bang I'm not that I'm condoning that, but you've gotta bang some drums to also say, like, we are not okay with the hundreds of years of torture that we've had we've had to inflict as our our people.
51:14
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
51:15
SPEAKER_03: I think the best way to describe it, and we saw this on a YouTube video too, but it was like, evil begets evil.
51:20
SPEAKER_03: It's like slavery in the first place is evil, and then this, you know, creates more evil.
51:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then the slaves carrying out the rebellion and killing children, that's also evil.
51:29
SPEAKER_03: But then you have these white people now taking down like free black people saying, Hey, like you might have been part of the rebellion and they're slaughtering them.
51:36
SPEAKER_03: That's also evil.
51:37
SPEAKER_03: So it's just like evil begets evil.
51:38
SPEAKER_03: It's just this trickle effect and this endless cycle.
51:41
SPEAKER_02: Eye for an eye in this scenario.
51:43
SPEAKER_03: And then we're all blind.
51:44
SPEAKER_02: Everyone's blind in this whole story, I feel like.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: But it's it's very sad.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: There is, I want to end on a I know that's a later dark.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: This is kind of like I feel like our Holocaust stories or whatnot, like it's very dark time in history.
51:56
SPEAKER_03: Because it's recent and it's close to us, obviously.
51:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think for us it kind of I mean, not personally hits home, but uh it's our country and it's our history.
52:06
SPEAKER_02: But so in what was it?
52:09
SPEAKER_02: What was the year 2008?
52:11
SPEAKER_02: What 2001?
52:13
SPEAKER_03: 2016 is when his skull was officially given to his descendants.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: So they found what they believe is Nat Turner's skull.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: And first it was given it somehow it ended up in Gary, Indiana.
52:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like Gary, Indiana, Indiana.
52:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, is that a song?
52:28
SPEAKER_02: It's from the music band.
52:30
SPEAKER_03: Is it really?
52:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:31
SPEAKER_03: Oh.
52:31
SPEAKER_03: Is the music band set in Gary, Indiana?
52:34
SPEAKER_02: Gary, Indiana.
52:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course it is.
52:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
52:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:37
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, uh, the mayor of Indiana was was uh given the skull.
52:42
SPEAKER_03: Um I think because he was more so it was like the early 2000s when he received it.
52:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's what I was yeah, it was somewhere in the early 2000s.
52:50
SPEAKER_03: And I believe it was more as like a civil rights gesture, like, hey, like, you know, this is the the slave rebellion leader, like let's hold his skull, like you know, in a very dear place that meant something.
53:03
SPEAKER_03: And yes, that's great and all, but again, at the end of the day, like his family was like, Well, we want to bury him like a like have a proper burial, like a human, a man that he deserves.
53:14
SPEAKER_02: Right.
53:14
SPEAKER_02: Well, and then they gave it to the descendants of Nat Turner.
53:18
SPEAKER_02: This family, I don't know what the outcome is.
53:21
SPEAKER_02: I think we're all still waiting to know what the outcome is.
53:24
SPEAKER_03: Like the DNA analysis, yeah.
53:25
SPEAKER_02: They handed it over to the Smithsonian Museum for DNA evidence if to first confirm that it is 100% truly Nat Turner's actual skull.
53:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
53:34
SPEAKER_02: In which case, if it is, their plan is to bury it with the rest of his body.
53:38
SPEAKER_02: The rest of his yeah, to uh do a proper burial for him with the rest of the family in their graveyard.
53:44
SPEAKER_02: So kind of like definitely like a well-deserved, like full comfort full circle.
53:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
53:51
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what the ending of the story is.
53:53
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's truly his skull, so right.
53:55
SPEAKER_03: I know, you know, but what a heroic story, regardless, you know, and it's always like interesting whether it's like Nat Turner or like Joan of Arc to have these people that are so fierce in their beliefs to like know that they're getting like visions from a higher power and they have a larger purpose, and it's like like someone like Joan of Arc, who's like a 19-year-old female in like, you know, like a long-begotten era of France, or like Nat Turner, who's in, you know, the prime of slavery in the American South.
54:24
SPEAKER_03: It's like you have these strong figures emerge where they just know something's wrong and there's no they know that there's something that they have to fight for.
54:30
SPEAKER_03: And at the end, it's like at least they're like known for dying for their beliefs and like they're kind of martyrs in a way.
54:37
SPEAKER_03: Um, so it's like an equally tragic story, but it's also inspiring.
54:41
SPEAKER_03: But like we said, crazy that this one isn't a bigger story in American history.
54:45
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't believe I ever learned about it in American history.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: How did you hear about this?
54:49
SPEAKER_03: I actually read it, like I get like a daily news digest, and it always tells me at the end like important dates in history.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: And it was like this day, like Nat Turner was executed for leading the slave rebellion.
54:59
SPEAKER_03: So I saw that like like a couple falls ago, and I was like, wait, who is executed?
55:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, I kind of got out of here.
55:05
SPEAKER_03: Anytime I see execution, I obviously I'm like, oh, we've got to look at this.
55:08
SPEAKER_03: And I saw it, I was like, how did I not know about this?
55:11
SPEAKER_03: And I my major in college was American Studies.
55:13
SPEAKER_03: They don't bring this up.
55:14
SPEAKER_03: It's like, you know, and obviously.
55:15
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure if you got into like a more niche of yeah, like black slavery, you know, sure some whatever it would come up.
55:22
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, this was definitely not taught in my history books.
55:25
SPEAKER_03: Right.
55:26
SPEAKER_03: And even even Robbie actually went to school in Virginia and I was like, hey, like, you know about this?
55:30
SPEAKER_03: He's like, Whoa, who's he Italian?
55:35
SPEAKER_02: Oh, Robbie.
55:37
SPEAKER_02: All right, well, um, thank you for thank you for putting up with our our Gorilla DeVille sputtering out engine sounds.
55:48
SPEAKER_03: Um see the compilation with any final parts.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
55:55
SPEAKER_03: The first shall be last and the last shall be first.
55:58
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
56:01
SPEAKER_00: Are you are you coming to the tree?
56:07
SPEAKER_00: I strung up a man, they say who murdered three.
56:12
SPEAKER_00: Strange things it happened here.
56:15
SPEAKER_00: Stranger would it be if we met and made night in the hanging tree.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Are you are you come into the tree where Demon called out for his love to flee?
56:34
SPEAKER_00: Strange things did happen, you know, stranger would it be if we met a mid that in the hanging tree.
56:45
SPEAKER_00: Are you are you coming to the tree where I told you to run so we both be free?
56:56
SPEAKER_00: Strange things it happened in a stranger would it be every man and in that in the hanging tree are you are you coming to the tree burns of hope side by side with me?
57:16
SPEAKER_00: Strange things it happened in a stranger would be man and in that in the hanging tree, are you?
57:27
SPEAKER_00: Are you coming to the tree?
57:33
SPEAKER_00: So we must be free.
57:36
SPEAKER_00: Strange things did happen in a stranger wood every man and in the hang tree.
57:45
SPEAKER_00: Are you are you coming to the tree?