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Kundalini for Empowerment: Harnessing Women's Sacred Energy with Author and Coach Katie Smith · Modern Sacred: Women's Work

• Abby Payne: Hi everyone, Abbey here. Just wanted to take a moment to thank you for listening to the Modern Sacred Women's Work podcast. I hope you are enjoying the discussion, the episode today, and I wanted to let you know other ways that you can engage with the larger Modern Sacred community. So Modern Sacred is a word of mouth spread business and community. We are not on social media. We don't have an Instagram or anything like that. Abby: Welcome everyone. Welcome back to the Modern Sacred Women's Work Podcast. We are excited to have you. All right. Chelsea Henderson: Hello, hello. like said in the beginning, ⁓ are word of mouth spread community. We believe that our attention is best used on each other and not in social media. So we on our members and people who listen to this podcast to spread the word on what it is that we're doing. So please subscribe this podcast on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube, wherever you listen, that really helps us to reach other women. Hi, hi. Thanks for being here. Who do we have today, Miss Abby? Tell us all about it. Abby: Yes, today we have an amazing guest, Katie Smith. Katie was the amazing goddess woman who introduced Chelsea and I, really. We were in a book club together, that's how Chelsea and I met. And the way that Katie facilitated that space was unlike anything I'd ever experienced and not like a normal book club. She really... Katie Smith: Okay. Abby Payne: We do have a sub stack. So if you want to head over to modernsacred.com, you will see a link to join our newsletter through sub stack where you'll get updates on upcoming events, book clubs, things that Chelsea and I are doing. Another way to engage is we have a monthly free women's circle called witnessed. This is a space not to get advice or fixing or coaching. Witnessed is a space for women to come together. Chelsea Henderson: and share this podcast or our offerings with someone else in your life, Same. Abby: She facilitated the experience of what it means to really be an embodied woman. And she asked amazing questions and brought in props and books and cards and things to enrich the experience. we've all been friends ever since. And I'm just really excited to have you today, Katie. To give our ⁓ little more info on Katie, Katie is a transformational guide mentor that serves individuals and organizations navigating growth or change. Chelsea Henderson: Sacred is a multi-generational space who you think would benefit, Abby Payne: and have that shared energy with each other wherever you're at in your journey. This is a place to see and be seen, to be in the energy of other women, and to also offer your energy in return. Chelsea Henderson: from being a part of this community and having more regular connection to other women, would love to have your community be part of community. ⁓ And we thank you so much for helping us to this work among the world. Me too. Katie Smith: you Abby Payne: That circle is every second Thursday of the from 1130 to 1 Mountain Standard Time. Abby: She is a mirror for leaders and professionals to release what no longer serves them, reconnect with their inner guidance, which brings clarity, alignment, and ease into how they lead work and experience life. She does this through one-on-one mentoring, peer group circles, corporate programs, and her work creates a space for insight, presence, and sustainable growth. Welcome, Katie. Abby Payne: We also have quarterly book clubs, which are group facilitated spaces. where we work through some kind of women or define feminine empowerment book. Our spring 2026 book is Made Into Mother, which explores the shift into a more mature version of femininity Katie Smith: Thank you, Valerie. I was going to say the book club y'all were in wasn't an animal book. Chelsea Henderson: Welcome, Katie. And we'll link to Katie too. Abby Payne: embody the mother spirit. Abby: It's true. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: No, you're so right. We've talked a lot about that. I mean, first of all, when your book is called Pussy, it just sets you apart. You're just on a different level right there. So. Abby Payne: So that is upcoming in April. We would love to have you in space. Katie Smith: Bye! Abby Payne: And we also have a Modern Sacred membership. This is a $30 a month membership that gives you access to an expansive resource library of meditations, courses, PDF downloads. We are adding to it all the time. Abby: Hehehehehe Katie Smith: You two are two brave participants. Abby: you Yeah, we were. I remember my husband during that book club being like, what are you, what is this? I'm like, you don't get it, Zach. You don't have a pussy. Katie Smith: Thank Abby Payne: You'll also get 20 % off of any book clubs, Chelsea Henderson: My husband loved it. He was like, oh, it's pussy club tonight. I was like, that's pussy book club to you. He was like, no, it's pussy club. I was like, you're right. It's pussy club. Yeah. It's always fun when your five year old is saying that or four. He was four at the time. Are you going to pussy club tonight, mom? Yes, I am, darling. Yes, I am. Abby Payne: special or seasonal events, and upcoming retreats as a member. Katie Smith: you you Thank Abby: Yup, yup. Abby Payne: You can find all information for our Witnessed book clubs, upcoming events, and the newsletter ⁓ on our website, modernsacred.com. Chelsea Henderson: All right, Katie, so we have kind of created a little format for our guests just to kind of like get things rolling. So we want to start out with what we kind of start out with with everybody that we bring on here. And we've actually we've interviewed each other as the start to our podcast. So we've asked each other these questions. But can you talk to us a little bit about we want to know kind of your background, but we also want to know. Abby Payne: All right, get back the episode, and I to see you face to face soon. Katie Smith: you Chelsea Henderson: any of like your astrology, enneagram, human design, anything like that that you feel like is kind of most relevant to you, especially right now in your life. ⁓ So we'll start with that and then we can kind of move back into your backstory a little bit and go from there if that's cool with you. Katie Smith: That's fine. Yeah, I've been in astrology since I was really young. ⁓ Not knowing it scientifically. Not your house and your planet in this house. No. But I'm a Pisces Sun. I'm a Capricorn rising and a Scorpio Moon. So let me just explain what that means to me in my life. Pisces is the most spiritual sign in the zodiac. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Yes. Abby: Hahahaha ⁓ wow. Chelsea Henderson: Wow. Yes, please. Abby: Wow. Katie Smith: we connect in really easy Capricorn is about how I manifest on the physical plane I can create matter okay so I can structure right it's structure Capricorn and Scorpio's transformation deep transformational work so how I've translated that into my life is well Abby: Okay. Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: I can tie this into my journey because I started my career as a personal shopper, dressing women for a living. have job, fashion merchandising. So for 10 years, I dressed women and men, how to create balance, how to accentuate their beauty, whatever they wanted, right? And then my daughter lost her hearing. Abby: ⁓ I forgot about that, yes. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: Awesome. Katie Smith: So that was my Saturn return, first Saturn return. I was 30. ⁓ And that just shook things up. So I was living in Texas, because I'm originally from Texas. I was living in Texas at the time. And when Taylor lost her hearing, we decided that we were going to teach her to talk, that we weren't going to just do ⁓ sign language. It wouldn't work. I'm from a family of nine. They would never have learned sign language. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Katie Smith: You know, it's in the hearing world. And so, and she had already had pathways to the brain made because she had like 25 words already. She was already starting to talk. So she had the pathways already laid. ⁓ So what we ended up doing was moving to California because there was an oral school there that was teaching deaf kids to talk. And it was fabulous. And I couldn't wait to get out of Texas. my husband was from California. So we moved there and we enrolled Taylor and Jean Weingarten Peninsula School for the Deaf. And they were teaching all these amazing, profoundly deaf children how to speak. And it was just they were my family for the next period of years. And so at that point in time, I quit my job. Chelsea Henderson: you Abby: Wow. Katie Smith: because I had to go to school with her to learn how to teach her to talk. So I did that, and we ended up mainstreaming her into third grade, into public school. However, prior to that, she received a cochlear implant. you know, do y'all know what a cochlear implant is? Yeah, probably do. Abby: ⁓ wow. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ my gosh. Abby: ⁓ nice. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Yeah, yeah. Katie Smith: ⁓ She was the, you know, at that time they had to be FDA approved. The kid had to be, the infrastructure to work with the implant so that the parents were teaching them how to use it and talk. But she was on the cover of the Oakland Tribune as one of the spokespersons for Poclear because she excelled so well with. And so she did all that. That was great. In the midst of all that, Abby: What? That's amazing! Chelsea Henderson: Wow! No way! Abby: Wow. Chelsea Henderson: Awesome. Katie Smith: I ended up having another child, Shelby, my son. They're five years apart, we waited, because of her deafness. And after Shelby was born, he was two, I ended up divorcing. And so at that point, I was teaching a lot of yoga. Because when Taylor lost her hearing, I was just like, what the fuck is happening? Abby: sure. Yeah. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: Seriously. Katie Smith: mean, Saturn return. You know how Saturn returns are. So at the time I had been doing yoga, 10 years, Hatha yoga at a Unity Church. was in hospital for three weeks in intensive care because it was meningitis. That's how she lost her hearing. so I was just like a basket case and I was like, I just have to get to the yoga class. And on the schedule, Chelsea Henderson: So bumpy. Abby: Really amazing. ⁓ really? Damn. Katie Smith: of the Unity Church there was no Hatha Yoga, there was only Kundalini. I didn't even know what the fuck it was. But I thought I'm gonna show up. And I showed up and I fell in love with the mantras and the chanting and the mudras and the meditations and I was just like, ⁓ my God, I have to do this every day. And that's what turned me on Kundalini. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Let's do it. Abby: Wow. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: Wow. Wow. Katie Smith: So my life took a total turn at that point doing Kundalini because Kundalini really clears out the chakras, gets you aligned. Of all the yogas, it raises your awareness the fastest. So I ended up diving into Kundalini, we moved to Half Moon Bay, got Taylor situated, and then I started teaching Kundalini yoga. There was no teacher training happening. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: ⁓ really? Katie Smith: And my mentor out of New York said, Katie, you know the practice, just start teaching out of your living room. So I did. And there was no Kundalini in San Francisco. Even the ashram was not teaching. So it was really weird. This was like 1990. It was early. Chelsea Henderson: Awesome. That's crazy. That's crazy. Abby: That is wild. Wow. Chelsea Henderson: feels like in California there would have been, right? It was so kind of alternative. Abby: That's true, yeah. Katie Smith: Yeah, so we moved to California, we did that. I started teaching. ⁓ They started coming out with a teacher training program. I signed up for that. ⁓ And then I really just started teaching a lot. I was teaching a lot of classes. And then I realized in the state of California, it had the highest suicide rate among attorneys. And so they had to practice a lot of stress management courses as CCEUs to continue practicing law. So I thought, you know what? I'm going to get my course approved by the state law board and be able to take it into law firms so I can make more money. Abby: ⁓ wow. Chelsea Henderson: Brilliant. Brilliant! Katie Smith: because you don't make... you don't get... So this is my cap recording. Abby: So brilliant, yep. ⁓ building the structure. Yep. Katie Smith: The Catalini is my Scorpio because it's so deep. And the sun is that ethereal, spiritual, the yoga fell into that. So I got my course approved by the state law board and I would drive into these law firms in San Jose to San Francisco. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Totally, yes. Abby: Wow. Katie Smith: I would bring my sheepskin in. I would lay it on the conference table. You know how law firms, have those stupid large... Abby: Huge black. Yeah Chelsea Henderson: Huge. It's like for a hundred people. Katie Smith: I would sit on the table and all the partners would sit around me in chairs. Abby: Yeah ⁓ you would sit on the table, like on the sheepskin. Katie Smith: there was no room. You had to sit on the table. I just let them sit in their chairs and then I would teach them how to breathe, how to chant, do this to de-stress, show them the best Kundalini postures for de-stressing the nervous system. And then the pilot would write me a big back check and I would leave. Chelsea Henderson: That's fucking awesome. Abby: Amazing. Chelsea Henderson: That's amazing. Abby: awesome. You're like, this is great. Chelsea Henderson: Perfect! Katie Smith: So I did that for a period of time. I loved it. It was so aligned with my calling. And then I had to leave my husband. Because I was me who initiated the divorce. To this day, Glenn says, yoga ruined my marriage. Abby: Hehehehehe Katie Smith: It's like, yeah, I fucking woke up. Abby: because you woke up and it just didn't fit anymore. Katie Smith: Yeah, I mean, yeah, he had a thinking, let's say that, ⁓ and didn't want to take ownership of it. So, ⁓ so at that point, I left and this was all during my Saturn return. I left with no money, no car and no place to live and two kids to feed. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Katie Smith: I had a very strong yoga community on the coast. And so I packed my things in a U-Haul. I put them in storage. I went to live at my sister's. I went to stay at my sister's the first night who lived in San Francisco. She just had an apartment. And so then I was on a chiropractic table. I do network spinal analysis where seven people are in the room. don't know if you all know Donnie Epstein's work. It's an energetic. Abby: ⁓ nice. Uh-uh. Katie Smith: Anyway, I've done that. There was a woman who approached me on the coast I was introduced to and she was like, I want to take Kundalini. Would you do trade? I'm a network chiropractor. I was like, well, what's that? She told me, I said, well, you know, I'll try it. I was pregnant with Shelby and I went and I was just like, oh my God. And we've been doing it ever since. My kids grew up on it. We never went to the doctor. We just went to the chiropractor. So anyway, so I left Glenn and I... Abby: Wow. Chelsea Henderson: That's amazing. Katie Smith: was on the chiropractic table and I was just bawling. And one of my yoga students was next to me. She was a real estate broker on the coast and she was like, Katie, are you okay? And I was like, I have to leave Glenn and I have no money and nowhere to go and blah, blah, blah. I was like 30, I don't know something. And she puts a check under my chiropractic table for $1400. And she said, this is payment for yoga for the next year. Come to my Abby: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: No. Katie Smith: with your kids and you can stay with me. Chelsea Henderson: Holy shit. Abby: Whoa. ⁓ my gosh. That's beautiful. Chelsea Henderson: Holy shit! Katie Smith: And so that's what I did. I don't want everything up. I went to Margie's. We stayed at Margie's. And then another mom who had a deaf kid who was close friends with Taylor, she was getting a divorce and we ended up renting a home and merging our families. That was the transition. But it was my yoga class. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ my God, it's like the golden girls. That's incredible. Abby: ⁓ amazing. Chelsea Henderson: That's the dream, some dream. Abby: Yeah Katie Smith: It was my yoga community that supported me because I didn't have a car. And I remember we were doing a house clearing at my house that I moved into with Marsha, the kids. I had a shaman come and sweep all the energy out and do all the stuff. And I remember there was one of my yoga students and he had a crush on me, but I didn't like him. And he... Abby: Wow. What? Katie Smith: I told him I said, I need a car. I've got to find a cheap car because I don't have much money. And he said, well, how much do you have? I said, you know, I don't know, $1,200, $1,500. And he says, Katie, I have a car I never drive. It's a Subaru. I have a company car. I'll just give you my car, $1,200. So I mean, things just lined up. Once you get a line. Abby: Wow. Wow. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, yeah. Abby: Yeah, yeah. Katie Smith: So I left on pure faith and trust, supportive community, that I, this is what I have to do, this is what I'm supposed to do. So I did all that, and Taylor had an implant, she was mainstreamed, I had Shelby, but I had to create more income. The yoga was not enough to support my children, and I needed health insurance for Taylor and her implant, because she had to regular checkups with that. Abby: Wow. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Katie Smith: machine internet. ⁓ I thought I gotta look for job, but I don't want to commute to the city because Shelby's in half daycare, I'm on the coast. So I started looking at the Half Moon Bay Review and there was a job for a headhunter. Abby: ⁓ right. Katie Smith: Oh my God, I don't know if I could do that. So I went and it was a woman who had left a big firm in San Jose. She lived on the coast. She was starting a one-woman show. She was hiring one recruiter. She said, I'll teach you the business and I'd like to hire you. And I said, well, okay, well, I need health insurance for my daughter. because I have to pick my son up two and I need to work around my yoga teaching schedule. And she said, okay. And it was on, it was in half moon bay, which was great. So I did working for Alison and that was a whole transformational experience because she wasn't real conscious and she definitely woke up with me in her office. And we became great friends. Abby: Dude. Amazing. Chelsea Henderson: Holy cow! Alignment! Abby: Amazing. ⁓ wow. Chelsea Henderson: Awesome. Katie Smith: And so I worked with her for a while and then I really wanted to make more money because it wasn't enough. And I didn't like the kind of recruiting I was doing. And so someone in my yoga class, a student in my yoga class was like, Katie, there's a tech firm moving from Berkeley to the Half Moon Bay and the managing director lives in Half Moon Bay and they're looking for tech, you know, executive recruiters. And I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna go talk to her. I went and talked to her and... talking this is in the 90s and she we were working with all the big startups so it's when the big first bubble was bursting in San Francisco all the money was and I said I can only work part-time Abby: Wow. Katie Smith: this much money. And so she did. She gave me the money I wanted and I worked part time and I was the top producing recruiter in that office. Anybody else was working full time? Abby: Wow. Chelsea Henderson: Amazing. Awesome. Suck it. Abby: What? That's amazing. You're like, I'll do what they can do part time, you know, and better. Katie Smith: You have to be able to So it was great. got what I needed for my family. And then my dad was starting to pass. And my sister in San Antonio, in Austin, was like, oh, you should come home. She had three kids. It would be so great. You could help me with dad. And I thought, then I was just kind of tired of the coast. My kids were struggling in the schools. In order to go to private school, I'd have to go over the hill to Palo Alto. I didn't want to commute 45 minutes. And so. I thought I'm gonna fucking move. And I had full custody. So I moved to Texas and we got there and it was like, ⁓ my God, what did we do? Because we moved away from the ocean, the mountains, the beach, and it was a different lifestyle and everybody in California is. Yeah. But we did that. I knew I wouldn't stay there. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Ha ha. Abby: Hmm. ⁓ such a change. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah Different culture too, I bet, huh? Abby: Yeah. Katie Smith: was a period of time and I'm so glad I went. My kids got to know their cousins. I got in. Abby: ⁓ nice. Katie Smith: was really great. And then it was time to move. And all during that time, I was recruiting because I went, I ended up going with another. Well, what happened was the California company I was working for said, Oh, we'll move you to Austin, you can open an office in forest. But then the bugging first. And so I moved in there, and then I got laid off. Chelsea Henderson: Awesome. Abby: ⁓ nice. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ Abby: ⁓ no. Katie Smith: worked for another firm, another boutique firm, which I loved, ⁓ while I taught yoga. I was doing both. So then it was time to leave. So I was studying with Steven Eisenstadt at Pacifica University in Santa Barbara. He is the one who came up with the dream tending concept of tending. Abby: ⁓ I've heard you talk about this. Yes, yes, yes. Katie Smith: out to Santa Barbara once a month for six months to learn this methodology. And it was a group of 30 of us and I had a dream and in the dream Colorado was in the dream. And I knew I wanted to move but I didn't know where. I knew I wasn't going to move back to the bay. I wanted to be near nature with activity, outdoor activity ⁓ and just an awake. Abby: Definitely Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Katie Smith: So we worked this dream and I really didn't know how it would come into being. So it just percolated. And then I brought Shelby and Taylor up to Evergreen to ski. My sister lives in Evergreen. brought them up here to ski and Shelby was on the deck. He was 10. And he turned around and he looked at me and he said, Mom, I can live here. And I looked at him and I said, I can make that happen. Abby: ⁓ nice. Chelsea Henderson: AHHHH Abby: Amazing. We've got buy-in. We've got buy-in from the kids. Yep. Katie Smith: It was my time. So, Taylor's graduating from high school. She was going go off to San Diego State. So I just had to worry about Shelby. And he was entering middle school. So I thought perfect time to do it before he enters high school. So I applied to three jobs. had three interviews. I told Shelby we're coming up for a weekend. I'm going to interview with these people. I'm going to accept a job. We're going to find a house. Chelsea Henderson: I can make that happen. I love it. ⁓ Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: and I'm just going to rent a house because I don't know, you know, I want to know, check out the area. So what the really interesting part is, my sister came to Austin with a map, Colorado map, and she was like, you know, we can look at where you think you ought to live because I'll probably be working downtown. And I thought, ⁓ that's a good idea. And I looked at the map and I said, well, what's Golden like? Abby: Hmm. Katie Smith: And she, it's kind of pricey, but that would be good for me, because she lived in Evergreen, and if I had to travel, she could stay with Shelby. Somebody could stay with him still. So I was like, well, let's check out Golden. I get home that afternoon, and Shelby said, Mom, I've been looking at the map in Colorado, and I think we should live in Golden. Abby: ⁓ nice. Chelsea Henderson: Ha ha Abby: Whaaaat? Katie Smith: I'm like, okay, that's where we're supposed to live. Abby: You got, wow, you got a little spirit guide there. Living in your house, you're like, yep, we're all aligned. Katie Smith: ⁓ we, ⁓ it was really funny. We had a list we created of the house we wanted to live in. And we would meditate together because my kids, when my kids were growing up, you know, I gave them a choice. I said, you have to have spirituality. So it's either going to the Unity Church, we checked out different churches, or just doing yoga and meditation every week here at the house. And they both picked yoga and meditation. So that's what we grew up with. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: Totally. Abby: Hmm, nice. Katie Smith: So they were in the habit of doing that with me every week. And I told Shelby, said, we're going to create this house together. And so we wrote this list. And I remember one day he coming into my room. My office was in my bedroom. And he laid on the couch. He laid on the bed and he was just staring up. And I said, what's going on? And he said, I said, are you scared about moving? And he said, yeah, what if I don't make any friends? He had made so many friends in Texas. ⁓ Abby: Wow. Hmm Katie Smith: Texas is kind of like a group sport community. Everybody does sports. ⁓ And I said, yeah, that's scary. And it's going to be OK. I'm scared too. So just talking him through that transition. So we get here, and my sister takes us to all these rentals in Golden. The house we live in is the very first house we looked at. Abby: ⁓ yeah. Whoa. Katie Smith: too expensive. They wanted way too much for rent. And so we looked at all these houses and looked in Lakewood and Rebridge. was like, why would Abby: Yeah, no, definitely not the vibe. Katie Smith: So I couldn't all the houses they were dark in the price range I was looking at they were older except for this house. I So I called the landlord. got him. Abby: Nice. Katie Smith: rented it and he had been renting it to School of Mines kids and he hated that because they were trashing it. We wanted a family in there so that was my leverage. So we rented it. A year later he wanted to jack the rent up 800 bucks and I was like, look, I said I should go buy a house and he said make me an offer. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Totally. Abby: Yeah. What? Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ hey. Abby: Whaaaat? He's like, I'm done with this house. Take it. Katie Smith: And it's why I made him an offer and I bought it. Abby: What? The house on your list? Chelsea Henderson: Amazing. Katie Smith: Yeah. The house on our list. It had everything but a cat. And we put a cat door. Abby: Wow. Chelsea Henderson: Haha Abby: That was an easy fix. Katie Smith: That was an easy fix. Chelsea Henderson: Katie, I'm so struck by like you've said a couple times how like you got what you needed, you got what you wanted, but I also noticed that at every juncture you asked for what you needed and wanted and I find that like incredibly inspiring. I don't know if that is, for me that's not as common in my story to be as clear and direct and I find that Katie Smith: Yeah. Abby: Wow. Chelsea Henderson: So you as far as I've known you so far and how fucking cool it is that if you just say this is what I need Turns out so much of the time you get that and that just seems like a constant through your story Was that intentional or is that just like who you are? Katie Smith: Peace. I think it's part of the support groups I was in, the Dreamtending, the Yerba community. It was my own ⁓ depth work I was doing to learn these tools, but also Carolyn Mace, the famous consciousness leader, Carolyn Mace. I don't know if y'all know her or not. She's older, but she has been communicating with the angels since she was little. mean, she's just... Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Wow. ⁓ Katie Smith: She's incredible with her work. And she said, everyone has so much support around them, but they're not going to support people who don't ask. Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: Ugh. Abby: Mmm, yeah, yeah. Katie Smith: So you don't have be clear about what you want, put it out there, and trust it's going to show up. It may not show up the way you it. It may not show up in the timing you want, but it's going to show up. Abby: and the trust. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ I love that. Abby: Well, the trust element of like making the leap, leaving your husband, having no money, that, just trusting that you had to follow your intuition and what you knew was right and that you were going to be caught on the other side somehow. I think the universe really responds to that. Katie Smith: I had to make. Well, yeah, and the whole thing about the divorce was really learning how to develop my masking. Chelsea Henderson: That's huge. Abby: ⁓ I want to hear about this. Because you've talked about this before, that one of the main things in your life is learning how to really balance your masculine and feminine. And you were the first person who'd really introduced me to that whole concept of those energies throughout the Pussy Book Club. Would you be able to just tell our listeners about these masculine feminine energies and how you've balanced them in your life or what that's looked like? Chelsea Henderson: Me too, me too. Katie Smith: you Chelsea Henderson: Well, and also too, I think to note that, and Abby and I were reflecting on this when we were kind of talking about, like bringing you into this space, like you are such an amazing example of having both so strong. Like you present so strongly in them and then marry them and balance them in this way that's inspiring. So sorry, I just wanted to add that, because I find that really cool too. Abby: Yes. Katie Smith: Thank you so much for saying that. I really appreciate that from both of you. Because that's been my life work. Like that's why I'm here in my own depth work. Do you know what I mean? It's like I can sit there and be a victim of my husband's alcoholism, or I can choose to choose me. Chelsea Henderson: I... Yeah. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Hey. ⁓ Okay. Yes. I love that. Katie Smith: Not knowing how the fuck I'm gonna support these two kids. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, whoa, whoa Katie Smith: So, you know, and that's where the Kundalini came in because it gave me the courage. Abby: Huh. Katie Smith: It helps rewire my brain enough and activate my polar plexus and my whole to listen to what I need, honor what I need for this life and take the action to do it. Abby: Yep. Yeah, wow. Katie Smith: So the pieces were, what I fell into, the Kundalini was no, it was meant to be that there was no Hatha on the schedule, there was Kundalini on the schedule. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: It's like to Mary Glenn, I'm so grateful I have two amazing children and he's an amazing man and he's got his own journey and our relationship. was time to come to an end. Because I needed to develop the masculine in me, which was how to build infrastructure to support my family, how to how to live in a human form. We have to have money. We have to have resources in this system. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Right. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Katie Smith: and how to overcome my victimhood. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Mmm. Yes. Yeah. Katie Smith: and choose my people. I mean, think that's what... that heroine is the feminine. The warrior woman. Abby: Hmm. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Katie Smith: the sage, you know? Chelsea Henderson: Do you find in your life today, after all of this practice and all of this kind of journey that you've had so far, do you find it's still a concentrated effort to bring those two together? Or are you kind of more in a groove with that, of that masculine feminine in your day to day, kind of over the time? Is it more easy? Abby: Hmm. Katie Smith: you I don't, it's, it's, it's pretty integrated. Stage of my, I mean, I'm in my sixties. Better fucking be integrated. Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: Nice. Yeah, you're like, I've done enough work at this point. Come on. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: Come on Katie Smith: Where the depth work is now is our involvement is a spiral. And so the issues don't go away, but deepen. And so now it's looking at, ⁓ Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Yes. Abby: Uhhh Katie Smith: I'm at a stage in my life now where I'm letting go of the last 30 years, raising kids, building that infrastructure, merging and that integration. And now I'm going into this sage part of my life. And it's like my identity is shifting. And so now it's not about being the teacher, it's about being the mirror. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: well. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Okay, wait. Can we take a moment? we, this is something that Abby and I have been talking about a lot the last couple of weeks. And since we're in this area, I feel like it's just the perfect moment. We have been talking a lot about aging in a society and culture that almost is trying to. Katie Smith: Thank Chelsea Henderson: annihilate the existence of that is trying to pretend that that's not something it doesn't you know there's lots of perspectives on it right i mean it doesn't feed capitalism in the same way it doesn't feed patriarchy in the same whatever whatever but we're at different you know i'm 10 years older than abby and so i'm entering my 40s now and i We've you and I've talked about this, Katie. I had 10 years of doing Botox and filler. And, you know, when I started to really come back home to myself, I was like, fuck this. This is stupid. It's not who I am. It's artificial. It costs a shitload of money. It's painful. It's demeaning. And also, it's disingenuous. Like the love that I have for myself that I feel growing every day that spills over and loves all my people is antithesis of that. Right. It is not of that. So but. Katie Smith: Okay. Chelsea Henderson: Also, as soon as I stop doing it, I get very different attention and sometimes no attention. And it's a weird thing. And Abby and I have been talking about it, her and her in her thirties, you know, this expectation of us as women to prevent superficially and not much beyond that. And the way that we are valued and accepted into spaces. Can we talk about that? Because you, I feel like your energy is perfect for that. Katie Smith: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: this kind of just the balance, the masculine and feminine. And it feels so kind of of the moment of just like Abby and I are talking about 20, 30 years from now, we're gonna be these beautiful sage women and we're gonna look around us and it's gonna be a room full of robots or like mannequins or like it's freaky. It's freaky. It's freaky. I don't know how to make peace with it. I don't know if I'm supposed to. Katie Smith: Thank Abby: And plastic. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: just in my own self, but I wanna hear your perspective on that and what that means to you, if you don't mind. Katie Smith: We live in a system, capitalist system. You're not going to escape that. That's what the reflection is. But you want to use the reflection for your own depth work, right? It's like, okay, if I'm judgy about that person getting Botox... Instead of projecting the judgment, what do I need? Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: okay. Yes. Katie Smith: If I go to judgment, and this is what I'm, and I'm still learning this, right? Because I judge, I mean, we live in a judgy collective, right? ⁓ And that's just it, it's the constant inner work of being so present and conscious with yourself that when you're in a interaction and you notice you're judging, ⁓ wow, stop myself. What is it that I need? Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. It's our favorite pastime. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, yes. Hahaha Abby: Mm-hmm. Right, why is this triggering me? Katie Smith: You know, can you... Yeah, it can be something as simple as... ⁓ I was walking on the creek with someone the other day and it was in the dark and it was so beautiful, it was a full moon, and they just kept talking and talking and talking. And all I wanted them to do was shut up. I just wanted to be in the silence and be present with the night. Chelsea Henderson: Ugh. Abby: Yeah. Katie Smith: Instead of saying, you know what, I really want to be present and hear what you're having to say, but can we just walk this stretch in silence and take in the night first? I didn't do that. Instead, I went home and I was like, she talks too much. You know, I was judgy, judgy, judgy. Abby: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Katie Smith: So I'm still learning because it's easy to get distracted by all of that that's outside of us. And the thing is, when you're just doing Botox, you don't know if that is healing for them. We don't know their path, their karma, what they're here to learn. It's about keeping the attention on what do I need to learn from her. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Yeah. Yes. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ I'd love that. Abby: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Great point. Abby: Yeah, might be the first. Chelsea Henderson: and we don't. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Katie Smith: Where is my projection? If you're projecting, it's your ship. Chelsea Henderson: Totally. Totally. I will say too that I was reflecting on how there are a lot of women like you in my life, which is an incredible bounty, and you all have, there's more vital, like I feel like for me, I feel like I have more vitality now not doing that. Abby: Hmm. Yeah, that's interesting. Katie Smith: Thank you. Thanks. Chelsea Henderson: because there was something almost burdensome about this attempt to try to be something I wasn't. It's like performing in co-dependence. It's like performing in a marriage that no longer suits you, right? It felt like the same energy. So I feel this youthfulness that people are trying so hard to hold onto, like carrying water in their hands. It's almost opposite. There's the youthful vitality of curiosity and of Katie Smith: you Thank Chelsea Henderson: desire for more depth and connection to self and others is actually more vibrant in that space to me. But I love what you're saying how everybody's on their own journey, right? But like that's my feeling that might not be someone else's. And if the judgment sinks in or even for me, it's the there are moments of like Katie Smith: it. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Like I had a moment of shame the other day out in public when this young boy was like, excuse me, ma'am, and did this whole thing. Like I was fucking 105 years old and I was like, what do you want? Stupid boy. And, and then it was like, no, because, it was interesting because we started to talk and he's from the South and in the South, ma'am is respect. Like that, he was respecting me, but my snap judgment to your point. And then I had to have that moment of like, Abby: Hehehe Katie Smith: Okay. Chelsea Henderson: Who fucking ca- like what- why? Like why am I doing that? I missed a moment where someone was offering me respect because a word triggered me and it has just been this kind of shifting of like growing into a new phase of myself and really sitting into that with pride and excitement versus whatever else might try to sneak in there. So I like the judgment part of like letting that be a reflection of like what is this triggering for me? What do I need? Katie Smith: Okay. you Yeah. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Such a great question to ask. Abby: Mmm. Katie Smith: Yeah. And it's a journey coming back to yourself. mean, let me just tell you, that's just the aging process. Chelsea Henderson: Yes! Abby: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Okay, yeah, it feels like it. Katie Smith: You know, I have good friend that, ⁓ her and I have done consciousness work since we were in our 20s. And it's developmental. Abby: Yeah. Katie Smith: You mean, it's part of growing older and, you know, embracing the wisdom, even though the system is giving a different message. And, you know, I was watching part of the Golden Globes and I thinking, oh my God, these women look amazing. And then Mel, Mel Robbins, they had a clip on her. Abby: Yeah. Hmm Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Katie Smith: And she was all dolled up with all this makeup and lipstick, so different than her podcasts. And I thought she looked older. She looked older. See all her wrinkles, you could see everything accentuated. And I thought, ⁓ man, I hope she doesn't fall into it. Because it's got to be hard to continue to hold the anchor inside yourself. Abby: Yeah. Yep. Totally. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Yeah. Abby: Yes, I think that's exactly what it is. And as like, I mean, being in my 30s, I'm 32, even already there's so much pressure to like start getting Botox, start getting Philopoeia. my age, they say it's preventative to help prevent the wrinkles, whatever. But as someone who really strongly identified with being pretty and being desirable and... that I got so much of my self-worth and identity for being a young, beautiful woman. And as that begins to fade, even just moments when you wake up and there's no moisturizer and you've had no water, I'm like, wow, I look older. Should I go get work done? Like, this is bad because I'm losing my identity. But I'm beginning to see and leaning into the beauty of losing yourself. Like, the beauty of losing this facade of self. and really finding who you are in that deeper beauty and embracing that aging process. It's not easy, especially when everyone around me is not thinking that way, especially Salt Lake City has higher rates of plastic surgery than California. It's really big out here. Yeah, it's huge, huge, huge, huge out here. Yep, everybody out here is very into looks, possibly because of the Mormon church influence. There's many different ideas, but. Chelsea Henderson: Holy crap. I didn't know that. That's crazy. Katie Smith: Yep. Abby: Yeah. Katie Smith: Interesting. Yeah, I was going to say something, I lost the thought. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Happens to the best of us. Abby: Yeah. Katie Smith: It's a process. It's a, it's, oh, this is what it was. Letting go of ego. It's about letting go of ego. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Katie Smith: Because the reality is, as we age, we want to not know. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Katie Smith: You know how I said it's not about me teaching anymore. It's about me being a mirror now. Abby: Mm. Katie Smith: that means is when I work with clients or people it's like sharing what I'm observing in their habits or their behavior. Sharing a concept that may be new to them that I'm noticing that's getting activated in me. Chelsea Henderson: Hmm, yes. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Yeah. Katie Smith: They may agree with it, they may not. But I don't have any attachment to it. I'm just sharing. It's not about changing them or fixing them. It's about them getting to see the real reflection of who they are. Abby: Yeah, just an observation. Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: Because then they're going to get aligned. Then they're going to live in flow and ease and realize life is working for me, not against me. You have to fix anything. It's not about fixing. It's about being. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm, yeah. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Yeah. Yes. Abby: Yeah, totally. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: being absolutely... yeah. Katie Smith: more that are being it will create a ripple effect. already is. It already is. And there are pockets, Abby, like you're in a pocket where you have a different reality. And it's like, well, interesting. I wonder why you're there. What's the reflection for Abby? Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Yeah, interesting. Abby: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's been really interesting to be here for not even that reason. But Utah's not our place. We'll be here for a year, and then we're moving on doing travel nursing and stuff. But why we're here for a year, I think, has been really to go within myself. Because the culture here, I'm not even really drawn to make friends here, honestly. Because I have friends. have Chelsea. I have other people I talk to almost every day. Chelsea Henderson: You Abby: And with the Mormon influence, they're a very tight-knit group. So it's pretty hard to break in. And I just don't even want to. I just feel like this year is a year for me. It's a year for me and my husband. It's just a year to be in quiet, in solitude before whatever comes next, and build the structure with modern sacred and just other things. So just embracing why I'm here. It doesn't feel like where I'm. Katie Smith: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Mmm. Abby: gonna be long term, but it's where I'm supposed to be for sure. 100%. Yeah. Katie Smith: It's like, you know, garner the jewels while you're there. There are rules of wisdom in whatever, no matter how chaotic, dysfunctional, fucked up it is. It's no different than the marriage. It was like, I'm gonna garner the jewels. This is all falling apart because something needs to be growing in me. Abby: Yeah, yep. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: ⁓ huh. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: I love too that like. Abby: Yeah, we even went to, so, oh, go ahead. Chelsea Henderson: Mm, mm-hmm. Katie Smith: I don't have to project that onto him, even though I did many years. It took a while to take that projection back, but it's back, so. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: You Chelsea Henderson: I love that you answered that question. And I love this about you just in general. I've been inspired from the moment I met you with this energy of just bring it back here. Just bring it back here. This is where the work is happening. And I think that's an incredible thing you said too about you're kind of past the point of teaching because Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: I love teaching. love those who teach. I love the time that I've gotten to teach, but it does feel like a point in life. Like you talk about the spiral staircase and as you go around it, you experience things over and over again at different and as you develop and as you create familiarity with those things, you go through that time when you're like, ⁓ I can teach about this because I'm experiencing it and I'm passionate about it I see it in a different way. And then you get to the point that is so beautiful of just being like, now I get to just be it, not do it. and share from that perspective. And that is an incredible sage wisdom that does feel like it's less and less in the society at large. And yet at the same time, there's like a growing momentum for it kind of just crashing back through because there's this hunger that we all need for it. The hunger like I see this in raising a child. Like there's a hunger for Katie Smith: you Abby: Definitely. Chelsea Henderson: just appreciating where he's at, like you say, development, right? Respecting and appreciating the phases of development as they are kind of those stair steps around the spiral staircase. So allowing for that to be, right? And I feel like our culture, our species is like hungry for that because we lost it for a while and we're coming back to it. Katie Smith: And that's coming back to nature, coming back to the wisdom, and coming back to the wisdom of the trees, and the birds, the sentient beings. But you said something, you know, we teach to master. That's the only reason we teach. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Abby: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mic drop, yep. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ That's brilliant. Yeah. Totally. Yes. Katie Smith: It's not simply someone's life. That's bull. Not your job. Chelsea Henderson: No! It's not them, it's coming back here, right? And I love that. There was a moment where, and we've talked about this, think, on the podcast, where I stepped into Welcome Goddess, this space that we all met in, and got to have this moment of connection and grounding in. And I stepped in there not on purpose, I was there for another event, and was like. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: What the fuck is going on here? Where am I? It was like stepping back into my childhood. know, was like back into the circle of women, the stillness, the energy. And I was like, okay, I'm listening. And I went and did my event. And then I came out and I talked to Catherine and you were there. And it was like the energy there was like. Abby: E? Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ just the being, like, I don't have to perform here. I can just be here. And it was just this moment of allowance to, in a way, step out of my own victimhood, right? Like, I was in this kind of critical rupture place of my own and was trying hard to not make that my identity. But I didn't have a lot of good mirror for that. And it was that moment of, the mirror energy of just, like, welcome. Abby: Hmm. Katie Smith: And see, this is the masculine part is the structure. Okay? When Catherine asked me to facilitate the book, Pussy, I was like, ⁓ wow, I've never done that. Well actually I did it with my friends after I worked with Mama Gina. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: okay this would be good because it'll it'll harness it in me deeper. Abby: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yep. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: right? And I was so excited with each chapter because I knew the content, but it was like, oh, I'm reinvigorating that DNA again, you know? And then to be able to share it in a group, it's like, makes it even, you know, vibrate higher. But it was to master it. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, Mm-hmm. Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Yes. Katie Smith: Because then you can't share the wisdom if you haven't mastered it. Abby: Mm. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yes! Katie Smith: Because mastering is integration, it's embodiment. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: crazy inspired by that. Katie Smith: In my own life, in my own life, and how I'm choosing to live in the choices I'm choosing to make. And that's how you tell, you know, it's like, I mean, you know. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: Yeah. Yep. And just knowing how you integrate information too, and just learning about ourselves. Like I learn through teaching as well. That's how I reach mastery is all. Teach about it until it becomes so a part of me, but then there comes a point always where it feels like my brain is a sponge and it is saturated and now it's time to embody it. And that's that transition point where I'm like, I've learned all the things about this topic and now, but am I embodying it? Am I living it? Katie Smith: you you Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Yeah. Abby: And that's the transition point that I feel like I'm in. That's my word for 2026 is embodiment. Take it from up here and start to moving down into my way of being like what you were saying with that more mastery. For some people, it's not teaching, it's writing. For some people, it's just knowing kind of what's my integration pattern and how do I kind of do this and just knowing ourselves. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Katie Smith: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. For some people it's being alone. It's not being in a context or a container. It's creating their own container. Right? So it looks different for everybody. For me, I'm an experiential learner. So I would go off to all these programs, these different environments, and have a container of people. But we come back to my human design. I'm a generator. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ gosh, yes. Mmm. Yeah. I was just gonna bring that up. Yes. Abby: ⁓ yeah, I wanna hear about this. Yes. Katie Smith: So, you know, I'm a generator and my life's work in Gene Keys is all about communicating and being the mirror so that people can see and be vulnerable, have space to be vulnerable in and to be compassionate with where they're at. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Mm. Katie Smith: and to share my wisdom. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: So it's interesting because my, I am a projector and thanks to sweet, sweet Paula Hein who, ⁓ my god, I am fucking obsessed with her. I'm like, can we be best friends? Can I come live with you? Do you wanna marry me? Like what, whatever. Katie Smith: I'm gonna go to bed. ⁓ She's very good at working with your human design and your gene keys and embodying it. Abby: Hahaha ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: So I'm gonna ask her if she'll come on the podcast, because I wanna hear about that. I wanna hear more about that work. But either way, Katie's friend, Paula, who does all this human design and Genki's work has been helping me kind of explore that. And it's been incredibly clarifying for me because the projector knows themself by knowing others, which is like this crazy light switch flip for me of like being here with you two. Abby: Cool. Chelsea Henderson: This is my integration. I'm like learning you guys and I'm hearing this and then it like shifts. It's like an image coming into view, right? It just shifts into clarity of like that aligns with my experience that land lands it here and for the longest time I fought that like I was like that's some I didn't know how to be with that, right? And so now seeing it that way and and and then for me also being an introvert, I need that time alone. Abby: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: So then I go and I integrate and then I feel like, I know myself better and I know the world better. And it's that just simple switch of just knowing how you integrate those things and being, you know, the word authentic is getting thrown around a lot. And so sometimes I stop myself from using it, but it is the best word. Like the authentic me, who I just am in here, essence, that is how I change the world. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: The more moments that I step into just me, the more I'm inviting others to be just them. And the more we are just ourselves, the facade falls away. And a lot of the conflict that can arise in being human also falls away because we're just being ourselves. And there's this like beautiful simplicity to it. Like you said, Katie, it's about that getting back aligned with nature. Nature is unapologetically itself. Abby: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: And it is, it's working, it goes through all the hard work of transformation, because that's incredibly hard work. Even as little sweet flower blooming is having to like bust out of its constraints, right? And it, and it dies and then grows back and all of the process. And it feels like this beautiful simplicity that's coming back to me that I see now kind of more and more mirrored in the world around me. And maybe that's also because like, Abby: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Katie Smith: you Chelsea Henderson: I'm part of writing the reality, the narrative, right? But it's like this beautiful simplicity of our species that we've tried so hard to over-engineer these things. And the more we come back to that, the more the vibration just kind of hums along and rises. To me, that's what it feels like. It feels like an exciting time. Yeah. Yeah. Abby: That's right. Katie Smith: you Yeah, it's coming back to align with your soul. And you know, we've been we've been programmed out of that. So there's so people don't know how to touch into that. I remember one of the first clients I had, she was like, how do you have these deep conversations with your friends? Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Yeah. Abby: Yes. Yep. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Katie Smith: This was in 90s, mind you. I mean, I've been coaching for 15 years, a while ago. But, you know, it was just like that. It was all business or small talk or bullshit talk, right? It wasn't, it wasn't depth. Abby: Okay. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Abby: Right, shallow, yes. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Katie Smith: And then you look at how now there's all these conversation cards and all these tools now so people can learn how to have depth conversations. So we're involved in this business. We've got to quit thinking we're here to save the world. We've got to quit thinking, we've got to quit putting attention out here and bring it in here. We've got to save this world. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, cause it's so juicy. We are. Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Katie Smith: save this week our presence will be enough. And that will have a big impact. Abby: Well, we're all each, you know, we're one cell of the whole body. each cell needs to focus on its cellular maintenance and what needs to get cleaned out. Like each cell has its own systems of everything. And yeah, just by focusing on ourselves and healing ourselves, I really do believe we heal the collective. This is some of the best work. Katie Smith: We do! We're...yeah. By the time you're 60, you want to be able to live in that space. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Yeah. Katie Smith: still doing your own work because you're on the spiral, right? So you're still wrapping your issues, but in embedding them and embodying them deeper and deeper because enlightenment never stops. It's not a destination. When you think about it, know, death is, we're alone in death. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yes, practice, right? Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Katie Smith: And it's about full surrender. Let control. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: just as in birth, I would imagine. I don't remember being born, but it feels like you're kinda in that same place. Just like, gotta come out. I gotta do this. I gotta transform. It's time. Katie Smith: Yeah. Abby: It's time. Well, the whole life arc is so wild because we come in as these pure spirit essence beings, these little babies, and then we layer on all this programming and societal conditioning and ego structuring, and then you lose it all. People pass away as you get older, your friends, everybody that you know or you do, when we all do. Truly, to get to the end, to be 100 years old, you've lost so much of what you used to identify with. Your youth, your beauty, your strength, your friends, your community, your children have moved on and they have their families. It's this wild arc of acquiring and then losing things and surrendering. Yeah. Katie Smith: Yes, that's such a great description because it is it's like we build all this stuff up. We build the ego up. We build, you know, we have these experiences. And then as we age, it's letting go of all the ego. Like I'm gonna give a shit. I'm just gonna get so aligned with who I am. Chelsea Henderson: Ugh. Abby: Everything you've built. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Katie Smith: It's like I told my hairdresser, I I think I'm going to quit highlighting my hair because I highlight the top portion because I've always been a toe head. it's like, do I have any gray? I have some gray, but I want to find out how much gray I have. And it's just really interesting to see, OK, what will it look like with Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. The curiosity. There it is again. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: You know? And how will it feel? Will I want them? Will I be okay with it? Is it another level of me embracing my wisdom? What's going to start opening up to me as I let go of this? Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. Yep, yep. Chelsea Henderson: Heck yes. Yes. Well, now I want to know. Please tell us. Katie Smith: Yeah. Abby: Yeah, we'll have you back on. Katie Smith: fashion girl here so like you were talking to Abby you know we've always been attractive right it's like yeah I mean I used to walk into a coffee shop and everybody would stare at me you know and it's like so it's Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, ⁓ yeah. Abby: Right. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: And how do you handle that? Katie Smith: sharing the identity. Abby: Asking for a friend. Yeah. Katie Smith: It's getting out of here and moving up to here. Abby: Yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. Chelsea Henderson: see that that the head to the body right that feels like Paula yes Katie Smith: Loving yourself, loving the guy standing next to you at the coffee shop, loving the panista, you know, so you know all... Chelsea Henderson: Right, because they are you, right? Abby: That's, mm-hmm. Loving the beautiful 20-year-old that walks in the door and everybody looks at her and not having jealousy and envy, because that's where that women-to-women combat can even start happening is, know, oh, there's the young girl, she's getting all the attention. You're like, yeah, wasn't that fun? You know, let her have it. Let her have it. I have my own, I have my thing now. And she'll, we all lose it. Chelsea Henderson: But we had that. We had that. Abby: We all have it and we all lose it and it's part of the process. Chelsea Henderson: Well, and also if you don't, what's the alternative, right? I love anti-aging, except for I say this a lot, my mother died at 45. I will turn 42 in about three weeks. That's fucking insane. Like to think about that I would have three years left with my son, anti-aging, it's laughable. I'm like, fucking A, what? No, no, no, no, no, no. Pro-aging, very pro-aging, because pro-aging means I get more time on this. Katie Smith: Good Chelsea Henderson: fucking wild ass ride of being human. I get more time to hug that boy. I get more time to look at beautiful, gorgeous women like you and soak up all your fucking incredible energy. Like anti-aging is one of the sadder things I can think of, right? So you're absolutely right, Abby. You look at that woman and you go, girl, I was there. Fucking live that shit. Do it. Have your fun. Katie Smith: Thank you. Abby: Yeah. Live it up. Chelsea Henderson: Because then if you do it, I'm still experiencing it, right? We're all sharing this. So then you're having that, I'm having this. It all kind of balances out and we're all getting to have this. So I love that idea of just being like, yes, do you, because I got to, and I hope you get to have this in return too, right? Like that feels. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: you Yeah, I love that saying, just do. My son, we were looking at a blind. My son and I were looking at this blind. I was like, well, do you think I should take it off and put another one? I said, but I like it this way. He was like, Mom, just do you. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah! hahahaha Abby: Yeah. Katie Smith: It's like, you're gonna just do, I don't want that block, take it down. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. What is your body telling you? Abby: Well, yeah, that's when another thing is shedding the external validation, the need for external validation. I went and picked out a new pair of glasses frames and by myself. And I'm there, I'm like, I really should have brought Zach or, you know, I can't pick these out on my own. And I was like, yes, can. Yes, I can. Which ones do I like? Which ones do I like? Not what I think Zach will like or what he says will be, which ones do I like? And if it takes me two hours to figure that out, then it takes me two hours. Katie Smith: you was good. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: And that's okay, even little things like that, it's part of the process of just owning my own truth and yeah, it's a baby step. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Katie Smith: It's a baby. That's good. Chelsea Henderson: Well, and you talk about you talk about shifting from the head to the body, right? I feel like that is the work. Like that was the message I got in my last session with Paolo was like your work, your purpose here is to be in that body and to be in your neutral state of emotion, because that means you're not absorbing everybody's shit because I have like no gates. I have two two tiny little gates and only one little block. It's like I'm very open. And so I feel very malleable. And she was like, just be in your neutral state. That's how you are. Katie Smith: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: doing your work here. And I loved that. And she said, and then listen to your body cues. And then so that was on that was on Monday. And then Tuesday, yesterday, I went to I'm working with these two other women and we're creating these workshops and we're trying to kind of really sink in right so that what we offer is what we feel right. We want to share what we feel with those who are participating. And we were trying to figure out this one thing and I said, can we all just try to feel it rather than think it? And so the woman who was kind of Abby: Mmm. Chelsea Henderson: outlining things on the whiteboard went up and rewrote an interpretation of what we had been thinking about and Seriously, you could feel the ripple go around the room and all three of us were like did you just get chills and we're like, yes Holy shit. Okay. That's the one right because the body was like that's it. You got it. Like you're there you're doing it Katie Smith: The body knows. The body knows. Chelsea Henderson: Okay, we're at the hour, ⁓ Katie, in kind of wrap-up period here. I wanna ask you our favorite question that we've generated so far. So this is called the Modern Sacred Women's Work podcast. ⁓ Abby's ⁓ I like, amazing, yes, that feels like so good, right? ⁓ So when say women's work, ⁓ what that mean ⁓ to Can you talk to us? I mean, I feel like we've been talking about that this whole time, but just specifically that, especially when it comes to like your, we talked about balancing the masculine and feminine, right? Because what we have found is that we feel this knee jerk need to constantly be like, this is not about gender. This is not about typical gender roles. It's about energy. But just for you, when you hear us say women's work, what does it mean to you? And how do you feel that presents in your life? And what is the importance of it? Katie Smith: When I first heard the statement women's work, ⁓ I got a negative reaction to it. Abby: Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: Because I thought, ⁓ there's something wrong with us and we gotta work it. That was my first reaction. So I'm not really keen on the term, women's work. ⁓ And yet, living into your feminine, it takes presence and conscious choice, which can be work to some people. mean, is, you're repatterning your brain. It's physiological. mean, physiological component to all this consciousness work. And... Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: And so for me, it's really working on codependency, because everybody's codependent. Understanding what that means in my life, and being able to individuate from that. It's what are the things that trip me up? How much do I love being in my body? And how am going to start using my body as my guiding force? Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: Because this is most important communication tool we have, our physical body. But how many of us listen? Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Right, yeah. Katie Smith: How many of us listen to it? So, doing a body lean test or kinesiology, you know, just to get into the habit, I'm having a hard time making this decision, so I'm just gonna do some kinesiology and see what my body says. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ yes. Abby: Yeah. Yep. Katie Smith: You know, the habit of training myself to listen to my body. And then loving my body. Loving myself. See, you know, curriculum. Trusting that I am a goddess here. I do have things to embrace in myself. For my children, for the next generation of women. You know? Abby: at deeper intelligence. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Abby: Yeah. Katie Smith: It was like, hold your pussy circles with y'all. Y'all were all younger than me. And it was just like so invigorating to think, ⁓ my God, they're getting in touch with who they are. It was like, shining, know, coming out of the programming, the Maya, the illusion that you're something, you gotta fix something. You gotta be this. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Yeah, it was awesome. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Yes. Yes. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, yes. Abby: Yep. Katie Smith: in this system because you don't. You have a choice. You can be the hero of your journey or the victim. You can act in love or you can act in fear. And I really believe we're all here to learn how to open our hearts and live in love. I think that's the bottom line of being on Abby: Yeah. Mm-hmm, I agree. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: about what we're living. It's not about, you know, who we hang out with or the programs or where we travel to. It's about how you love it. I mean, there's so much going on and having these experiences and which is all really important because I've done that. I mean, it's important, but it's not for everybody. Chelsea Henderson: Ha ha. Abby: Yeah, and how are you embodying that? Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Yeah. Abby: Yeah. And it deepens love. know, going to different cultures, seeing different things, does it deepen our ability to love someone other than us and people who live differently? And I just remember in that book club, you would say so much like, you know, you would ask, well, what is, what does my pussy want with this conversation, with decision, which is really asking, what does my body want? And connecting to that pleasure center, which was something I had just never, ever thought of until that book club. Katie Smith: Yeah. You Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yes. Abby: So when hear you talking about the wisdom of the body, that was a huge thing that came out of the book club for me, was that my body knows, and particularly my womb space, my pleasure center, will tell me what feels good and what doesn't if I can learn to tune into that energy. There's something just so outside of anything I'd ever known that that's a wisdom that lives there for us to access. As women in particular, because we have so much pleasure, Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: See you Abby: sensory nerves down there. Yeah. Katie Smith: Yeah, eight thousand nerves in the clitoris. Chelsea Henderson: which does make it a lot easier to come into the body when you're being welcomed with pleasure and sweetness and softness. So maybe that is kind of an essence of the like women's work kind of quote unquote, right? It's like the, that like, I think for us, we were trying to take that back because that old kind of idea of women's work being the domestic, right? Like, Abby: Yeah. It's supposed to be provocative. Katie Smith: Yeah, it's, you know, we think everything has to be so hard. doesn't. I had Spotify on this morning and a new song came on the playlist. I was like, ⁓ my God, I could not sit still. I had to dance. And then I went to the artist and was like, ⁓ my God, I'm downloading her because these songs are amazing. ⁓ So it can be simple things, but do what feels good and do what's easy. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah! Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: No. Amazing. Mm-hmm. Katie Smith: Sometimes we need to do what's hard, but it's like, choose the easy path. That's the feminine. Well, yeah, you don't have to make it hard. I mean, you can make it hard if you want. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, if you have a choice, why not, right? Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Totally. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Turns out we can make everything really hard. But that I think is the thinking, right? That's the thinking. If I'm thinking about it, right? ⁓ Katie Smith: Exactly! Abby: Hehehehehe Katie Smith: We have to make it work. We gotta push. We have to expect, not push. Abby: Right. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Expand feel be don't do fucking a Katie. I love you. You are so inspiring. ⁓ Your energy. just it just picks me right up. So thank you so much for being here with us. And thank you so much for bringing us together, for holding that space, for kind of holding both the spaces, both the energies for being brave. Abby: Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah. and body. You're amazing. Katie Smith: Thank you. Abby: Absolutely. Chelsea Henderson: for inviting us into this phase of human evolution of work, of our own process, of our own work. It just feels like ⁓ an incredible gift we're all giving each other. Someone in my life says this to me a lot. She says, we're all just walking each other home. I know that's not her statement. It's a far bigger statement, but ⁓ I love that. It's just like, ⁓ those like Dolores Cannon says, those little other bright lights. Our light shines much brighter when we combine. Katie Smith: you Chelsea Henderson: with other lights and it just feels that way. I've just like, met you guys and I was like, other lights, yay, I love that. Yes, more sparkle and it's brighter to bring others, right? The brighter we're shining, others are gonna be like, oh, there's the light, I'm going to that. So it's magnetic, feels awesome. Abby: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yep. So good. More sparkle. Katie Smith: More sparkle. More spark. It's magnetic. Abby: Yeah, Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And it feels good. Katie Smith: It's great to see you. Chelsea Henderson: Yes, it feels good. Thank you so much for being here with us and for the work that you do. You are truly a goddess. Katie Smith: Yeah, yeah. I'm grateful for the work you're doing as well. It's all rippling. Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: Thank you. We're just loving it. It feels powerful just to be. Love it. Abby: Absolutely. Katie Smith: It is. It is. We can change the collective. And if we don't, that's okay. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yes, yes, yeah. Abby: Yeah, exactly. Even if it's just for ourselves. Katie Smith: Because it's really about that. We don't have to really worry about that. It's like, what is, what's resonant here? What feels good here? If I can live in this place. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Perfect. On that note, we will say goodbye. Thank you, Katie Smith. You are a goddess. Love to you both and to all our listeners, and we will see you next time. Thank you. Katie Smith: makes an impact. Abby: Mmm. Mmm. Thank you, Katie. Bye.