Latest / Best of Business / Gus Gilmore: Te Pūkenga CEO on the Government's plan to increase pay for tradies working as unqualified teachers

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Gus Gilmore: Te Pūkenga CEO on the Government's plan to increase pay for tradies working as unqualified teachers · Best of Business

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It'd be
• 0:12
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  Speaker 2: Evening, Welcome to the program, seven minutes after six. So
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  Speaker 2: Erica Stanford wants to pay trades people more to help
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  Speaker 2: train the next generation, but to make that happen, she's
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  Speaker 2: going to need agreement from the unions. Now, the PPTA
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  Speaker 2: says schools are crying out for trades teachers. But here's
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  Speaker 2: the catch. They say outside educators should be fully qualified
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  Speaker 2: if they're to be paid the same as registered teachers.
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  Speaker 2: Know their trade or to know how to teach. Gus
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  Speaker 2: Gilmore is the CEO of the New Zealand Institute of
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Skills and Technology, also once upon a time known as
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  Speaker 2: Techoo Kinger and joins you now Hello.
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  Speaker 3: Gus, good evening Andrey.
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  Speaker 2: So do these tradees need a proper qualification to teach
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  Speaker 2: sixteen and seventeen year olds or is it easier than
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  Speaker 2: we think.
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  Speaker 3: We need to attract the best people to train our
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  Speaker 3: young people in these new vocational pathways. So attracting them
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  Speaker 3: requires going to the market, and often these tradees. If
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  Speaker 3: you've ever had someone come around to your house and
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  Speaker 3: repair you drains. You'll know that they're paid very well
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  Speaker 3: when they're on the tools. So to attract the very
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  Speaker 3: best to teach our young people, we need to pay
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  Speaker 3: for them.
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  Speaker 2: But that was not my question. I think we all
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  Speaker 2: agree with that and we understand that. But of course
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  Speaker 2: the PBTA is saying they also need educational qualifications to
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  Speaker 2: teach sixteen and seventeen year olds. So do you agree
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  Speaker 2: with that or not?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think ideally both, but certainly getting them into
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  Speaker 3: the teaching profession. If you've been on the tools for
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  Speaker 3: twenty five years, you've probably also been teaching apprentices for
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  Speaker 3: almost as long. So these are very experienced people. They
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  Speaker 3: should be Their skills that they have as trained professionals
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  Speaker 3: in their field should be rewarded accordingly. So it's an
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  Speaker 3: end idea both, but I understand the arguments.
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  Speaker 2: But to get the bigger pay we have to get
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  Speaker 2: rid of that educational requirement for educational qualifications because the
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  Speaker 2: thing is called the limited authority to teach, and that
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  Speaker 2: actually limits the pay for the tradings.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, currently it does, Andrew. And also in tertiary we
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  Speaker 3: have a different pay scale for people with the appropriate
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  Speaker 3: certificate and adult tertiary teaching. So but also there's opportunities
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  Speaker 3: to attract people into the profession and then train them
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  Speaker 3: either on the job, and there's already some good examples
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  Speaker 3: of that happening currently. So I can see a way
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  Speaker 3: forward for the union, and I think the Minister is
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  Speaker 3: absolutely right to get those trade professionals into teaching. We
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  Speaker 3: need to pay them accordingly so that they will see
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  Speaker 3: it as a future for.
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  Speaker 2: Them, Yes, and will be attractive. Will be attractive for
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  Speaker 2: tradees to teach, particularly in towns without politics, because they're
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  Speaker 2: going to be the first call because if you can't
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  Speaker 2: travel sixty miles to be at a politic, you're going
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  Speaker 2: to need the local trade who is going to want
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  Speaker 2: to teach. So we're going to want them to be
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  Speaker 2: paid enough to teach. So do you think we will
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  Speaker 2: attract those tradees to teach?
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  Speaker 3: Look, I think we can and with a bit of flexibility,
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  Speaker 3: which is what the Minister is wanting to do with
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  Speaker 3: the Union, is to work away where it works for
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  Speaker 3: everyone that we recognize the importance of quality teaching qualifications,
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  Speaker 3: but we also recognize a different pathway, which is a
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  Speaker 3: long career as a trade professional, and they shouldn't be
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  Speaker 3: mutually exclusive, so some flexibility in the current policy settings
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  Speaker 3: can see a way forward where everyone can benefit. And
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  Speaker 3: most importantly, it's about getting the very best teaching our
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  Speaker 3: young people.
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  Speaker 2: Here does it hack you off that the PPTA seem
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  Speaker 2: to be standing in the way of this idea based
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  Speaker 2: on some sort of ideological assumption that you have to
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  Speaker 2: have an educational qualification before you can teach.
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  Speaker 3: Look, it's both. The world has moved on a lot,
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  Speaker 3: and I think what the PPTA is saying, yes, teaching
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  Speaker 3: skills are important. I don't think anyone doubts that, but
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  Speaker 3: so are that specific knowledge around the trade. And as
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  Speaker 3: we open up new vocational pathways, what we're seeing is
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  Speaker 3: the demand is enormous. In doubling the number of trades
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  Speaker 3: academy places is exactly this meeting exactly the sort of
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  Speaker 3: demand we're seeing in tertiary. Not everyone wants to go
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  Speaker 3: to a university. A university is fantastic, it's a great education,
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  Speaker 3: But there's a whole bunch of young people who want
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  Speaker 3: different ways to learn and develop skills and knowledge and
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  Speaker 3: vocational pathways to the way to do it.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I go out there and do it, and I
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  Speaker 2: thank you so much. Gus Gilmore for the New Zealand
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  Speaker 2: Institute of Skills and Technology.
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