Latest / Sometimes There's Side Eye / STSE# 85: Leading With Curiosity

Transcript

STSE# 85: Leading With Curiosity · Sometimes There's Side Eye

• 0:12
  Welcome to Sometimes There's Side Eye, a podcast about two
• 0:16
  friends having real and unfiltered conversations about
• 0:19
  dogs and people listen as we talk about our lives with dogs,
• 0:23
  training, behavior, share some laughs and a whole lot of
• 0:27
  banter. I'm Heather.
• 0:30
  And I'm Christy. What are we talking about this
• 0:33
  week, Christy? This week.
• 0:35
  We're going to talk about a conversation I had with one of
• 0:38
  my neighbors recently. We were talking at lunch and
• 0:42
  they were discussing her and her husband were discussing how they
• 0:45
  would like to consider adding another dog to their house.
• 0:50
  They have a corgi and they've stayed in touch with their
• 0:54
  breeder. They really like their breeder.
• 0:56
  The breeder seems kind, has stayed in touch with them, all
• 0:59
  the things and they love their dog.
• 1:02
  So they've started talking to the breeder about adding an
• 1:05
  additional dog to their home. And as we were talking, well,
• 1:10
  one of the neighbors said, well, you just need to go to the
• 1:12
  shelter and get a Chihuahua. They don't want a Chihuahua like
• 1:17
  we're not doing that. So instead, I steered the the
• 1:20
  conversation in a different direction and I just started
• 1:23
  asking them about their breeder and kind of what they wanted out
• 1:27
  of their next dog. And one of the things that
• 1:31
  surprised me about them wanting to go back to the same breeder
• 1:34
  was their dog has a lot of phobias.
• 1:37
  So I was scared of new environments, scared of noises.
• 1:41
  There's just a lot that he's scared of.
• 1:43
  And in that conversation, I was, I was asking them, why would you
• 1:49
  go back to a breeder who gave you a dog or sold you a dog that
• 1:53
  has all these phobias? And they said, well, because the
• 1:56
  breeder's nice and he stayed in touch and all these things.
• 1:59
  And I, and I've finally said, well, you do realize that you
• 2:04
  can actually breed for confidence and, you know,
• 2:08
  temperament and all these things.
• 2:10
  And they have not considered that.
• 2:12
  And I thought that was so interesting because then I
• 2:15
  thought, oh, would I have known that 10 years ago?
• 2:19
  Probably No, I would not. And then when I mentioned it to
• 2:22
  my brother, he said, oh, I would have thought that it was just
• 2:26
  that individual dog and just his personality.
• 2:29
  I would have never thought those were characteristics passed on
• 2:33
  from. From breeding, I find this whole
• 2:38
  thing fascinating. Of course, a couple things that
• 2:41
  I was thinking as you're talking.
• 2:43
  One, I think that there could be traits that are particular to
• 2:49
  certain breeds or certain dog types.
• 2:53
  So I initially was thinking while you're talking that
• 2:57
  different breeds have different traits and how much of
• 3:02
  idiosyncrasies or quirks as we're now calling them could be
• 3:06
  attributed to a dog's particular breed type and that it's correct
• 3:13
  versus a little bit more extreme, maybe correct, but then
• 3:18
  it's extreme in a certain case, things like that.
• 3:21
  So I quickly looked up just now because I don't know a lot about
• 3:26
  corgis and it looks like that they can be sensitive to noises,
• 3:31
  but they should not be lacking in confidence.
• 3:34
  And that is a very big distinction that is noise phobia
• 3:40
  can be very common in herding type breeds, herdy breeds.
• 3:45
  And so that doesn't shock me, but the lack of confidence.
• 3:51
  Every corgi I have ever met has been like, what's up on the life
• 3:55
  of the party? Here I am.
• 3:56
  Anybody want to meet me? And so the lack of confidence
• 4:00
  thing is the thing that made me go really a corgi.
• 4:03
  And I think this whole, first of all, those people are so lucky
• 4:08
  that you were there because they might have ended up with a
• 4:11
  Chihuahua. They were not ending up with a
• 4:14
  Chihuahua. Not really another, another
• 4:17
  discussion. You're lucky that you were there
• 4:20
  because then you could bring up these questions and sort of
• 4:23
  challenge like, hey, is this really somebody that you want to
• 4:26
  go back to And here's here's some things to think about
• 4:31
  because getting a dog from a nice person is not enough and
• 4:39
  it's not enough for a lot of reasons.
• 4:42
  It's not enough because we want to make sure people are breeding
• 4:47
  good, solid dogs that are correct for what their breed is.
• 4:52
  And then we also want to make sure, which I'm glad to hear
• 4:56
  that the Breeders staying in touch, that's great.
• 4:59
  We want to make sure the dogs are being sold on contract and
• 5:03
  they're not going to end up in the shelter system.
• 5:06
  We want to make sure that there's health testing happening
• 5:09
  that's appropriate for the breed.
• 5:10
  This whole gamut of things, right?
• 5:14
  So it's really interesting to me that there was no connection.
• 5:19
  But also, it doesn't surprise me at all whatsoever because I'm a
• 5:24
  person who grew up with parents who showed dogs before they had
• 5:30
  kids, with a mom who worked for a judge, an AKC judge in a
• 5:37
  kennel and went to dog shows as a teenager and in some
• 5:43
  throughout my life. And when my husband and I, when
• 5:46
  we were dating, decided to get a dog, we were like, oh, well, as
• 5:51
  long as it's AKC registered, then that's all you need to do,
• 5:56
  right? Like even we did not make that
• 5:59
  connection that it is so much more than that.
• 6:04
  And so I can't really be surprised that these that didn't
• 6:08
  occur to these people and thank goodness you were there to sort
• 6:14
  of say, well, what about this? How was their response?
• 6:20
  Yeah, I, well, I definitely went at it with curiosity, which is
• 6:26
  is so different than saying you have to do this or you should do
• 6:29
  this. At the end of the day, I'm not
• 6:31
  going to live with this dog. Whatever they do is it's up to
• 6:36
  them. Like I, I don't care, like I'm
• 6:39
  not, I'm not going to wreak those results personally.
• 6:43
  So they were pretty open to it of discussing it and they, they
• 6:47
  had said, we've decided probably not for the next year or so,
• 6:51
  just kind of talking to the breeder and, and they had a
• 6:55
  litter on the ground that they wanted them to consider.
• 6:58
  And, and she's like, I just feel like it's too much right now.
• 7:01
  And I was like, I think you're that's smart.
• 7:03
  Figure out your home life and what you really love about your
• 7:08
  dog. And then if you want that again,
• 7:11
  or if there's other qualifications or
• 7:14
  characteristics that you're looking for in a dog.
• 7:17
  And if that means going with a corgi from the same breeder or a
• 7:21
  different breeder or a different breed altogether, or what you
• 7:26
  guys want out of your next dog. And I, and I just told her, I
• 7:30
  said, hey, when when you think you guys are ready, if you want
• 7:32
  to talk to me about it or bounce anything off, just let me know.
• 7:36
  I'm fine. That's it.
• 7:37
  I said, I'm not going to tell you.
• 7:38
  You have to get a, a Chihuahua from the shelter.
• 7:41
  That's clearly not what you want.
• 7:43
  And I'm not going to pressure you in that way.
• 7:46
  And they're like, really? Because you're the only one here
• 7:48
  who has a shelter dog. And I was like, yeah.
• 7:51
  And I. Isn't that ironic?
• 7:53
  And personally, I think he's the best dog out of all of them.
• 7:56
  But I also won't tell you you have to get something that you
• 7:59
  don't want. And you're not going to walk
• 8:02
  into the shelter. It would be very rare to walk
• 8:06
  into the shelter and find a Corky.
• 8:08
  Yeah, very rare. Yeah, I mean, how many, how many
• 8:12
  times did we see? Corky I can't think of ever.
• 8:16
  I don't. I can't even think.
• 8:17
  Of once like 1 was an owner hold that went home back to its owner
• 8:22
  and like escaped and went back. I think I saw one in 10 years of
• 8:26
  volunteering at the shelter. You.
• 8:28
  Can tell the people if they decide that they want to explore
• 8:31
  other breeders that I'll help them too.
• 8:34
  I will. I would be happy to.
• 8:36
  I see a lot of corkies in scent work which I find very
• 8:39
  interesting. I mean.
• 8:40
  They are, they are a working dog.
• 8:43
  I mean, they're not in the working group, but they're
• 8:45
  working dog. They're a herder.
• 8:47
  Which is what made me think of the confidence because I met a a
• 8:52
  Yorkie and no, sorry, a corgi. Little bit different.
• 8:58
  A Yorkie taking down cattle. Can you imagine?
• 9:02
  I was like. Actually, yes, guys.
• 9:05
  Everybody stop and picture that. Yeah, a corgi at a barn hunt
• 9:12
  trial. And as I was talking to the
• 9:14
  owner and the blind, she was telling me her dog actually
• 9:17
  works cattle and works livestock.
• 9:20
  And I was like, what? You got to be kidding.
• 9:23
  She's like, no, that's what they're bred to do.
• 9:25
  I go, well, yes, that's what they were meant to do, but
• 9:28
  nobody actually uses them for that anymore.
• 9:30
  And she's like, why you? And I was like, that's amazing.
• 9:34
  Like that's OK if you can get still the working line then
• 9:39
  there should be confident corgis out there and things that we can
• 9:42
  work with. Yeah, it's kind of like, I get a
• 9:45
  little, like my heart breaks a little bit when I see an English
• 9:50
  bulldog that's afraid, that's really fearful because I'm like,
• 9:54
  these dogs literally were bred to bait bulls, grab bulls by the
• 9:58
  face, I mean, and literally stand up to a bull.
• 10:01
  So it always sort of like cracks my heart 'cause I'm just like,
• 10:06
  it's so nice. Oh man, That's, you know, it's
• 10:10
  just sad. To me, so against what they were
• 10:13
  meant to do like the. Unintentioned.
• 10:15
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think well, and it's
• 10:19
  interesting too that you may had this whole conversation and
• 10:24
  relate it to your brother and your brother too was like, Oh
• 10:27
  well, I would have never put that together.
• 10:30
  And I guess that's, that's like one of those things where I as a
• 10:36
  person value you and your perspective because it reminds
• 10:43
  me where people start and that we all come from somewhere.
• 10:49
  And there have been times where we've had conversations maybe in
• 10:55
  the last year where I've said to you, you know, isn't it crazy
• 10:58
  that I grew up in this world that I grew up in?
• 11:00
  Granted I didn't go to dog shows as like a little kid, but I was
• 11:04
  very much around dogs and I even did not make the connection as a
• 11:13
  I'm trying to think we were. I was 24 when I got link my
• 11:16
  first Rottweiler. I myself didn't make the
• 11:19
  connection that AKC registered was not enough and.
• 11:26
  Didn't really mean. Didn't mean.
• 11:28
  Shit. And it's just a registry.
• 11:31
  So let me let me just say that for everyone, AKC is nothing
• 11:35
  more than a registry. And it doesn't mean that you're,
• 11:42
  I'll use a Rottweiler as an example.
• 11:44
  It doesn't mean that your Rottweiler is well bred.
• 11:47
  It doesn't mean that the dog that you're getting is actually
• 11:51
  going to exhibit exactly what you expect for the breed.
• 11:54
  It is nothing more than a registry that makes money.
• 11:58
  Sorry, but true. I'm not saying there's not A use
• 12:01
  for it. I'm not saying that like I have
• 12:05
  three dogs that are registered with the AKCI compete in their
• 12:08
  sports. I'm, you know, around AKC
• 12:12
  people. What is tater registered with
• 12:15
  the? I didn't know that.
• 12:18
  So little tater. Bulldog.
• 12:21
  Well let me explain. So Tater is adopted.
• 12:26
  I'm sure everyone knows he came from an Aubrey or sorry breed
• 12:32
  specific bulldog rescue. He did have papers that they the
• 12:38
  rescue had from the original owner, but it was for some like
• 12:42
  obscure registration organization and they were like,
• 12:47
  do you want his papers? I was like, I don't care.
• 12:49
  But he very much looks English bulldog and is English bulldog.
• 12:55
  So I went through the AKC PAL program.
• 13:01
  Oh, OK. And I submitted pictures of
• 13:05
  Tater. You have to submit certain
• 13:07
  pictures so that they can review them and determine does he
• 13:12
  actually look like an English bulldog?
• 13:15
  And you have to, I think I had to measure him whatever.
• 13:18
  And then you also have to say that they are spayed or neutered
• 13:24
  because you don't have a pedigree for this dog.
• 13:26
  So he I agree he is not a breeding prospect.
• 13:32
  So he was already neutered when he came to us.
• 13:34
  So I submitted all that. The reason I did it that way
• 13:37
  because I could have put him just in as a mixed breed and
• 13:39
  still competed in AKC, which is what Jackson's doing.
• 13:44
  I wanted taters accomplishments to go towards the English
• 13:50
  Bulldog breed because it's a rare breed to go out and do
• 13:54
  something and be a performance dog.
• 13:58
  So I really wanted him to like have the opportunity to be
• 14:02
  recognized as a performance English Bulldog.
• 14:05
  So yes, absolutely. Anyway, the AKC is just a
• 14:11
  registration like it. That's it.
• 14:13
  So when when we bought Link there were 75,000,000 red flags
• 14:19
  all over the place. But we were like he's a case of
• 14:23
  you registered, that's all it needs to be blah blah blah blah
• 14:26
  blah. It wasn't until he was a
• 14:31
  behavioral shit show and I needed help and came across a
• 14:38
  forum, which before Yahoo groups, before social media,
• 14:44
  there were forums. You, you know, went to the
• 14:47
  Rottweiler forum and and met all of these people who many are
• 14:51
  still friends today, who said. Uh oh, that's.
• 14:54
  Not enough. We need to make all these
• 14:56
  connections on temperament and how the puppies raised and all
• 15:02
  of the stuff that you and I now talk about all the time.
• 15:04
  So I think there again, it's a lack of education, a lack of
• 15:14
  open conversations, not just conversation, but open
• 15:17
  conversations, a lack of curiosity and a lack of people
• 15:23
  willing, willing to keep their mind open.
• 15:27
  I mean, your friends are obviously committed to the corgi
• 15:30
  breed. They they like the corgi breed,
• 15:32
  but that doesn't mean that. They've made that.
• 15:34
  Connection. Yeah, of.
• 15:35
  Course, I mean we we thoroughly enjoy him as a as a pub friend.
• 15:41
  Yeah, yeah. It doesn't mean he's a bad dog.
• 15:44
  It's just I want everyone to have exactly what they expect
• 15:49
  they're going to get and a good. I don't know.
• 15:56
  Do you ever really get everything you expect?
• 15:59
  Well, that's why I was like, I want, listen, I can want it
• 16:02
  doesn't mean it happened, OK? Yeah, yeah.
• 16:06
  Yeah, like I want people to get the dog that they think that
• 16:10
  they're getting. Yeah.
• 16:12
  And I mean, they have to be realistic too.
• 16:15
  I'm realistic. I want everyone to have a good
• 16:18
  dog, a good. Dog.
• 16:19
  Yeah, that's what I was going to say next.
• 16:22
  Like I want everyone to have a stable good dog.
• 16:25
  And however they define good is is fine by me, but.
• 16:29
  That's why I like the word stable, you know, because if you
• 16:36
  expect to get a, a Rottweiler, I want you to get what you expect
• 16:41
  from the breed. If you read, hopefully if you're
• 16:45
  looking for a Rottweiler, you're reading what they are and what
• 16:48
  their temperament and whatnot is and you're getting what you
• 16:52
  expect and that the dog is stable.
• 16:55
  So these people, I don't think they would have said I want to
• 16:59
  get a corgi and I expect it to be fearful, right?
• 17:03
  No, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:06
  So going back to what you said about curiosity and being open,
• 17:11
  I think part of that is, is not forcing your ideas onto other
• 17:19
  people as well and not taking, not giving advice that you're
• 17:25
  not willing to take yourself. Like the person who said you
• 17:30
  need to get a Chihuahua from the shelter.
• 17:32
  Well, guess what? She wanted a schnauzer and she
• 17:35
  went to a breeder and got a schnauzer.
• 17:39
  Interesting. But she thinks that other people
• 17:42
  should only go to the shelter. Yeah, because.
• 17:48
  She says, well, my breed isn't at the shelter.
• 17:51
  Well, neither are the corgis. Yeah.
• 17:54
  So I just approached it like, hey, that's those are not things
• 17:57
  I'm not looking for for a purebred.
• 17:59
  But if you are looking for a purebred, let's not put my
• 18:05
  ideals on you. Like you have to get a mixed
• 18:07
  breed or you have to get Jackson would not be happy in their
• 18:11
  home. They're very nice people, but
• 18:13
  they're not equipped for Jackson.
• 18:15
  Yeah, yeah. You know that?
• 18:18
  Yeah. It's it's true.
• 18:21
  I don't want someone to tell me how to live my life.
• 18:24
  So, like, why would I? I would not want to tell someone
• 18:29
  else how to live their life. I hope I don't do that.
• 18:31
  That's like a terror. I don't want to be doing that.
• 18:35
  That is not a trait I want to see in myself, you know, Like I
• 18:40
  don't, I mean. Not me over here trying to think
• 18:43
  if you do that. I know I'm watching your face
• 18:45
  and I'm trying to be like, is she like thinking that I do
• 18:48
  that? No, I was like, I can't think of
• 18:50
  anything but I'm. But I do feel like maybe we used
• 18:54
  to be more. Could be, well, I'm just sitting
• 18:58
  here and I'm like, gosh. But.
• 19:00
  I also am aware enough to be like, well, I don't want
• 19:04
  everyone to have a route Wheeler.
• 19:06
  I don't want everyone to to have that breed right.
• 19:10
  I don't want everyone to have a pit bull.
• 19:12
  I don't I, I want people who are committed to what it takes for
• 19:18
  each individual dog to be, to live a good life with them and
• 19:23
  them to get live a good life with that dog to get that dog,
• 19:27
  you know, so I mean. You know what I'm I definitely
• 19:33
  know I used to be more of that person because just a few years
• 19:37
  ago I went only. A few years.
• 19:41
  A few years ago I went to a party and a guy was talking
• 19:45
  about a dog he was going to be getting from Mexico.
• 19:49
  OK. From a purebred and I can't
• 19:52
  remember exactly what the situation was, but so he was
• 19:56
  talking about it and the other girl in our group who has known
• 20:00
  me for years, like sat down and she goes get him Christy, get
• 20:04
  him, get him Christy. Joel Joel with the man and I.
• 20:09
  And I was like, well, tell me more about that.
• 20:11
  Why are you guys going to Mexico?
• 20:13
  And he ended up having a connection there through his
• 20:16
  boyfriend at the time, or yeah, I think it was his boyfriend at
• 20:19
  the time had family there who were breeders.
• 20:23
  And so they knew. And I was like, well, what makes
• 20:25
  you want that breed? And and so I just, we just had
• 20:28
  an open conversation and she's like, this is not what I was
• 20:31
  expecting. From you.
• 20:32
  Oh my gosh. Because you've evolved.
• 20:36
  Because I was always the person who was like, let me just.
• 20:38
  Get you? A rescue dog.
• 20:39
  Yeah, yeah. And honestly, if you want a
• 20:42
  rescue dog, come to me because, like, I just want to get you a
• 20:45
  rescue dog. Fair.
• 20:46
  That's fair. That would be my heart's desire.
• 20:49
  Like, you know how you want just like people to get the dogs that
• 20:53
  they want. I'm like, I mean, if I'm totally
• 20:56
  honest deep down inside, I'd love everyone to have the
• 20:59
  perfect rescue dog for them. I know and and you're like come
• 21:04
  to me, I'll find you a rescue dog and I'm over here.
• 21:06
  If your friends need help finding a corgi breeder like
• 21:09
  just let me know. Right, which is why it's so
• 21:12
  important to know people from each side.
• 21:15
  All walks of life. We can say, hey, I don't have
• 21:18
  those resources or skills, let me get you in touch with someone
• 21:23
  who does. I agree.
• 21:25
  I agree 'cause at. The end of the day, it's just
• 21:27
  important that one dogs have good homes.
• 21:30
  Yes. People are getting the dogs that
• 21:34
  they want and enjoy and also we're keeping dogs out of
• 21:39
  shelters. Yes, I agree, and we can do that
• 21:44
  if we go to responsible rescues and ethical breeders.
• 21:50
  If you've enjoyed this episode, subscribe, rate and share us
• 21:54
  wherever you get your podcast. Also come on over to Instagram
• 21:58
  and engage with us at Sometimes Their Side Eye.
• 22:01
  Thanks for listening everybody. Talk to you next time.
• 22:05
  Bye bye.