Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1054 Q&A: 24/7 Tech & School vs Home Behaviour

Transcript

#1054 Q&A: 24/7 Tech & School vs Home Behaviour · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
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  Speaker 2: wants answers mew.
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  Speaker 1: Every Tuesday on the Happy Families Podcast, I answer your
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  Speaker 1: questions about how to make your relationships better, how to
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  Speaker 1: help your family to flourish, how to make your family happier. Hello,
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  Speaker 1: my name's doctor Justin Coulson. If you would like to
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  Speaker 1: Push the record button and ask your questions about making
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  Speaker 1: your family happier. Today on the podcast, kids who are
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  Speaker 1: perfect model students at school and turn into hashtag demon
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  Speaker 1: child at home. Up first though a question out Sneaky
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  Speaker 1: Teams with Tech.
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  Speaker 2: Hi, Justin and Kylie. This is Christina from the US.
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  Speaker 2: I was hoping you might be able to share tips
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  Speaker 2: on bedtimes and ending screen time for older kids. We
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  Speaker 2: allow our thirteen year old son to stay up till
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  Speaker 2: midnight and non school nights, but it's never enough. We
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  Speaker 2: tried locking apps on the phone, turning off the Wi Fi, etc.
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  Speaker 2: But he keeps sneaking around, finding ways to get back
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  Speaker 2: up and get back on. We've worked with him with
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  Speaker 2: the three e's, started with the most freedom and trust,
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  Speaker 2: but have had to be more and more restrictive because
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  Speaker 2: he just won't follow our family expectations. He says, our
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  Speaker 2: rules are arbitrary and pointless, and to be honest, I
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  Speaker 2: need to go to bed, so I can't stay up
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  Speaker 2: all night to make sure he is where he needs
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  Speaker 2: to be. Can you please help with how to enforce
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  Speaker 2: bedtimes with teens?
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  Speaker 1: Christina or I hear this and I just literally kind
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  Speaker 1: of go oh, so for frustrating a couple of things
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  Speaker 1: on this number one. The United States seems to have
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  Speaker 1: a different culture around adolescents and bedtime than does Australia.
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  Speaker 1: I think for the most part, like my family's not
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  Speaker 1: the only one that does this. Australia has more of
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  Speaker 1: an earlier to bed to rise kind of mentality. I
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  Speaker 1: know teenagers stay up a bit later, but in the US,
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  Speaker 1: my kids have a bunch of friends who are there.
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  Speaker 1: They've met them on camps that we've taken them to.
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  Speaker 1: Over the years, and it's not unusual for our kids
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  Speaker 1: to be messaging their United States friends and getting replies
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  Speaker 1: at two a m. Us time. Our kids don't have
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  Speaker 1: their phones in their bedroom, they don't have that facility,
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  Speaker 1: but the United States friends are on their devices at
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  Speaker 1: all hours and it stuns me consistently. So you're working
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  Speaker 1: against inertia here in that you've got a culture where
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  Speaker 1: all of your son's friends are allowed to do it,
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  Speaker 1: and he just doesn't see what the point is. The
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  Speaker 1: majority of teenagers, particularly the United States but also in Australia,
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  Speaker 1: brings some kind of technology into the bedroom which adds
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  Speaker 1: the enormous amount, the excessive amount of screen time that
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  Speaker 1: they get each day, and it affects a whole range
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  Speaker 1: of different areas in their lives. Experts are becoming increasingly
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  Speaker 1: concerned about the effects of the blue light from these
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  Speaker 1: electronic devices on the sleep wake cycle, and estimated two
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  Speaker 1: and three teenagers regularly sleep less than the recommended amount
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  Speaker 1: and screen time is almost certain to be responsible for
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  Speaker 1: sleep deprivation and other problems, and a recent literature review
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  Speaker 1: of studies investigating the link between youth screen media use
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  Speaker 1: and sleep, ninety percent of included studies found an association
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  Speaker 1: between screen media use and delayed bedtime and or decreased
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  Speaker 1: total sleep time. Proposed mechanisms include displacement of time that
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  Speaker 1: would have been spent sleeping, psychological stimulation and light exposure,
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  Speaker 1: and increased physiological alertness. This pervasive phenomenon, according to researchers
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  Speaker 1: of sleep loss, has widespread implications due to the associations
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  Speaker 1: between insufficient sleep, an increased risk of childhood ob city,
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  Speaker 1: disrupted psychological wellbeing, and impaired cognitive academic function. The research
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  Speaker 1: is there. The evidence is clear. You try and have
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  Speaker 1: that conversation with your thirteen year old son and he
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  Speaker 1: doesn't care. He just he doesn't. It's not important to him.
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  Speaker 1: He wants to be with his friends. He wants to
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  Speaker 1: be hanging out doing his own thing. You don't get it, mum.
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  Speaker 1: No matter what you say from his perspective, he doesn't
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  Speaker 1: have the insight to realize that he's wrong. And the
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  Speaker 1: more you try to convince him that he is wrong,
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  Speaker 1: the harder he'll push back, and the more convinced he'll
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  Speaker 1: be that he is right. Force creates resistance. So what
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  Speaker 1: do you do? Just before I share some ideas, just
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  Speaker 1: remember a friend of mine used to go and collect
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  Speaker 1: all of his devices around about eight forty five nine pm,
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  Speaker 1: and he was like, you guys can stay up and read,
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  Speaker 1: you can do homework, you can do whatever, but no
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  Speaker 1: more devices after nine o'clock. He put them into a box,
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  Speaker 1: kept it by his bedside. He woke up one morning
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  Speaker 1: two am. His son was commando crawling in the dark
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  Speaker 1: across the carpet so that he could get into his box,
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  Speaker 1: so that he could get his laptop out and his
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  Speaker 1: devices out, so that he could play games with his
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  Speaker 1: friends two in the morning. This is standard and unfortunately,
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  Speaker 1: the how do you push, the more you're up to
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  Speaker 1: the relationship. It's one of those impossible situations. All right,
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  Speaker 1: let's have a look at this. Christina. You've said you've
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  Speaker 1: tried the three e's hasn't worked. You know what, Sometimes
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  Speaker 1: it doesn't. Sometimes you can sit down and explore all
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  Speaker 1: you like, explain all you want, and when you empower
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  Speaker 1: your kids, they say, well, I want to do what
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  Speaker 1: I want. You don't know what you're talking about, and
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  Speaker 1: it's like banging your head against a brick wall. Sometimes
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  Speaker 1: the three e'es just don't work. Did a podcast about
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  Speaker 1: that A little while ago, it might be worth having
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  Speaker 1: a quick listen to that one so that you can
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  Speaker 1: find out what to do when the three'es don't work.
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  Speaker 1: I still stand by this. They are your best bet.
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  Speaker 1: It's just that it's a long, long term effort. An
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  Speaker 1: alternative could be that you go in completely the opposite
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  Speaker 1: direction and have a no limits, free for all approach
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  Speaker 1: where you just say, no more rules around this. You
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  Speaker 1: go to bed when you want, you can be on
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  Speaker 1: screen when you want, but there are a handful of
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  Speaker 1: behavioral expectations. You must be up at this time every day.
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  Speaker 1: This is how we expect school to go. This is
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  Speaker 1: what we anticipate into relationships in the home, the way
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  Speaker 1: you treat us, the way you treat your siblings. That
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  Speaker 1: so long as you can convince us that you can
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  Speaker 1: make this work and it can function, we'll take the
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  Speaker 1: pressure off. Now I can't see this working. I really cannot,
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  Speaker 1: because if he stays up until two or three, he's
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  Speaker 1: not getting up at six or seven the next morning,
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  Speaker 1: so he can be on the ball and do the
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  Speaker 1: stuff he needs to do. But that is something that
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  Speaker 1: I have recommended to some parents from time to time,
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  Speaker 1: and very very very infrequently they'll say, hey, it worked
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  Speaker 1: more often than not even close, but sometimes you kind
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  Speaker 1: of just ah, where do you go again? I stand
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  Speaker 1: by the three's as being your best bet. Third suggestion
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  Speaker 1: is that you just stay on it. Why because in
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  Speaker 1: real life, nobody has a one and done conversation about
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  Speaker 1: screens and bedtime with their teenagers. This is an ongoing cycle.
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  Speaker 1: It's an ongoing drama. It's just not something that there
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  Speaker 1: is a quick fix for. I wish that I was wrong.
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  Speaker 1: I wish that there was a way through it. But
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  Speaker 1: to me, the only way through it is to take
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  Speaker 1: the devices away, literally take the devices away, and they
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  Speaker 1: don't have access to them at all, full stop, end
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  Speaker 1: of story. I'm not sure how you feel about that,
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  Speaker 1: but that's that's kind of it. So let me wrap
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  Speaker 1: up by saying this, until legislation changes, this is going
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  Speaker 1: to be one of those things that falls on the
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  Speaker 1: shoulders of parents. It shouldn't be. There's now been in
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  Speaker 1: the United States, which is where all the laws are made,
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  Speaker 1: because this is where all the companies are based, and
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  Speaker 1: therefore they have to follow US law. In the United States,
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  Speaker 1: over the last twenty years or thereabout that, there have
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  Speaker 1: been forty congressional hearings where the CEOs of the tech
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  Speaker 1: companies have come in and been asked to account for
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  Speaker 1: what they're doing to protect the children and to support families.
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  Speaker 1: They've made up a whole lot of stuff and they're
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  Speaker 1: lying mendacious duplicit as. CEOs have literally continued to white
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  Speaker 1: ant your authority and your children's well being so that
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  Speaker 1: they can increase their market capitalization and the share price
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  Speaker 1: of their organizations. It's criminal what they're doing. It's absolutely appalling.
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  Speaker 1: I really fundamentally believe that these CEOs are responsible for
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  Speaker 1: more suffering and more misery and more mental health chare
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  Speaker 1: is in our young people than anybody else in the
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  Speaker 1: history of humanity. I just don't know what you can do.
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  Speaker 1: It's pretty much on you, and you've got to keep
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  Speaker 1: at it. And I really still think the three is
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  Speaker 1: your best bet. Joscelyn Brewer is an Australian tech and
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  Speaker 1: parenting or tech psychology expert. She's got this idea of
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  Speaker 1: digital nutrition. You can google Joscelyn Brewer digital nutrition and
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  Speaker 1: you'll find these three m's. She says, help your kids
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  Speaker 1: to use their tech mindfully, meaningfully and moderately. Again, that
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  Speaker 1: kind of fits really neatly with my three ease. If
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  Speaker 1: you can have a conversation where you're discussing that, I
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  Speaker 1: think that's going to be your best bet. But Christina,
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  Speaker 1: it's almost a knowin situation. It's something that you're going
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  Speaker 1: to have conversations about ongoingly. Good luck. Question number two
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  Speaker 1: from Kate.
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  Speaker 3: It's the end of the school year where I am
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  Speaker 3: and my five year old got a blowing school reports
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  Speaker 3: birth with regards to her schoolwork and her and she's
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  Speaker 3: really polite and helpful. They actually called her a model student.
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  Speaker 3: I'm grateful and compute. At home, if I ask her
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  Speaker 3: to take her plate to the kitchen, she collapses into
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  Speaker 3: a heap in tears, screaming at me that it's not fair.
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  Speaker 3: I understand that it's normal for kids to be more
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  Speaker 3: well behaved as other people outside of their home, but
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  Speaker 3: I'm worried she's learned as we need to be perfect
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  Speaker 3: all the time for other people, and at home we
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  Speaker 3: can behave dreadfully. How do I help her achieve a
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  Speaker 3: more balanced way of feeling? Thanks so much for.
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  Speaker 1: Your insight, Oh Kate, this is a real tricky one,
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  Speaker 1: isn't it. We have these different environments and now children
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  Speaker 1: behave one way somewhere in another way another place. We
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  Speaker 1: find this really disconcerting. The reality is it's pretty normal.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of parents struggle with it. You're probably aware
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  Speaker 1: of that. I just want to talk about why, why
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  Speaker 1: is it that your children feel like they have to
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  Speaker 1: be perfect for other people, but they can completely let
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  Speaker 1: it go when they're at home. Let's look at the
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  Speaker 1: school environment. It's a very different place to the home environment.
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  Speaker 1: First of all, there's the so pull, like you look
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  Speaker 1: at what all the other kids are doing, and you
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  Speaker 1: kind of just fall in line. As humans, we're ultrasocial
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  Speaker 1: and we are very heavily influenced by what happens around us.
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  Speaker 1: So there's just that happening in and of itself. Beyond that, though,
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot more punishments and rewards. There's a lot
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  Speaker 1: of structure in a school environment. Children understand the structure.
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  Speaker 1: The structure is pretty consistent, and they know what they
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  Speaker 1: need to do most of the time. Teachers don't have
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  Speaker 1: biological ties whereas you do, and so there's a difference
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  Speaker 1: in the relationship which probably allows those punishments and rewards
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  Speaker 1: to occur. I mean, I would say that there's a
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  Speaker 1: conditionality versus an unconditionality. And that's not to give to
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  Speaker 1: throw any shade at teachers. They're not related to your kids,
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  Speaker 1: and they're not supposed to treat them the same way
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  Speaker 1: that a parent would. But the unconditionality that children know
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  Speaker 1: that they have at home definitely changes their behavior there.
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  Speaker 1: The fourth thing that I would say is this, kids
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  Speaker 1: often find school to be a stressful environment because there
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  Speaker 1: is that social aspect, the behavioral aspect. They mask the
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  Speaker 1: camouflage or they suppress, especially if they'n you're a divergent,
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  Speaker 1: and so that's definitely going to change their behavior when
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  Speaker 1: they come home. They've been really pushing hard to hold
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  Speaker 1: it together all day. They get home and they feel
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  Speaker 1: like they can finally take the mask off, they can
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  Speaker 1: finally get out of the camouflage and just be themselves.
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  Speaker 1: The suppression no longer has to hold true. Now obviously,
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  Speaker 1: being well socialized requires it requires that you do fit
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  Speaker 1: in and that you do suppress. But when they get home,
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  Speaker 1: it certainly feels a lot more relaxing for them to
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  Speaker 1: be able to let it go a little bit and
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  Speaker 1: they feel safe at home. That's the fifth thing. They
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  Speaker 1: feel safe at home in a way that they can't
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  Speaker 1: in any other environment. Besides that, the sixth thing that
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  Speaker 1: I'll highlight is that I mean, I want to say
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  Speaker 1: this really gently because I know teachers are busy and
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  Speaker 1: the demands on teachers are enormous, But teachers fundamentally in
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  Speaker 1: front of the classroom are teaching. That's what their job is,
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  Speaker 1: and they're looking up for the classroom. They're managing things
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  Speaker 1: in the classroom, and they're focused on working with the
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  Speaker 1: kids to get a certain task done, Whereas at home
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  Speaker 1: there's usually a whole lot of other stuff going on.
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  Speaker 1: We're busy, our focus is in the kitchen and also
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  Speaker 1: trying to get the ironing done and racing out to
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  Speaker 1: hang out a lot of washing while the past is
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  Speaker 1: boiling on the stove, and we're trying to get the
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  Speaker 1: kids to do one or two things at the same time.
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  Speaker 1: And so there's a diluted or a different focus That
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  Speaker 1: may be a little unfair to teachers, but I think
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  Speaker 1: that most people would get where I'm coming from there.
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  Speaker 1: So what do we do about this? How do we
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  Speaker 1: help our childs to hold together in productive and adaptive
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: ways at home, since clearly they can do it when
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  Speaker 1: they are at school. I'm going to share just three ideas.
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  Speaker 1: Number one. Number one, allow them time to decompress when
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  Speaker 1: they get home. So often, because our lives are so busy,
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  Speaker 1: we bring them home and it is on from the gun,
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  Speaker 1: Like we walk in the door and they've got to
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  Speaker 1: get changed, they've got to drop their bag, they've got
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  Speaker 1: to get ready for their extracurricual activities. We've got to
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: get the house in order, we've got to organize meals.
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  Speaker 1: There's stuff to do, and there's multiple children going in
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  Speaker 1: different directions. So I want to try to find a
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  Speaker 1: way that there can be some margin. When I talk
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  Speaker 1: about margin, what I'm describing is you know if you've
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  Speaker 1: ever had to print something and you're trying to get
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: it onto one page and you have to keep on
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: pushing those margins out, and now you've got this white
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  Speaker 1: a four sheet and the text goes from one side
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  Speaker 1: to the other and from the very top to the
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  Speaker 1: very bottom, and reading doesn't feel nice when there's no margin.
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  Speaker 1: It feels overwhelming, there's too much on the page. You
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: need the margin to make the experience nice as you read.
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  Speaker 1: And it's the same with life. We need a little
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  Speaker 1: bit of margin, so we can breed so that we're
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  Speaker 1: not overwhelmed. As part of that decompression, As part of
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  Speaker 1: that margin, I would recommend food that would be I
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  Speaker 1: guess the extension of my idea of decompressing and creating margin.
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  Speaker 1: When kids come home, they're often depleted. Sometimes they haven't
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  Speaker 1: eaten particularly well. Often they've thrown their lunch in the bin.
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  Speaker 1: You just don't know about it. And so by making
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  Speaker 1: sure that they have some good food, they can restock
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  Speaker 1: on their glucose supply and they can kind of become
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  Speaker 1: human again. Second thing that I would recommend is this involvement.
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  Speaker 1: Often we send our children in one direction while we
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  Speaker 1: go in another direction because there's so much to do.
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  Speaker 1: There's something really prefer found about saying, hey, why don't
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: we do this together? Or would you come and help me?
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  Speaker 1: And then I'll come and help you. Just being involved,
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  Speaker 1: not even making it about chores, but just part of
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  Speaker 1: the routine is we're doing this or we're doing that,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: and being involved. It can take the pressure off, and
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  Speaker 1: it can build the relationship, and it also facilitates the
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  Speaker 1: third idea that I've got, and that is allowed time
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  Speaker 1: for fun. Fun. Fun play is the work of childhood.
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  Speaker 1: And we keep on cramming childhood full of all this
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  Speaker 1: other stuff, so there isn't enough time for play. So
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  Speaker 1: I would really recommend just facilitating unstructured playtime where your
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: child is not on a screen, but it's instead outside
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  Speaker 1: and being active and playing with friends in unstructured activities.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: It'll make such a difference and you'll find that behave
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: you will improve when those things happen. I guess one
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  Speaker 1: other thing that I'd highlight is just maturity, right. I mean,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: we're talking about a little kiddo here who as they
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: grow up, they will get it together and things will
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  Speaker 1: work out much nicer. Play and involvement and fun and
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: food decompression time are going to be absolutely essential, Kate.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I really hope that's helpful. I hope that gives you
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: some answers to some things to think about. If you
• 15:08
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