Latest / The Morning Edition / Harry and Meghan’s 'grifting': What the royals are doing Down Under

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Harry and Meghan’s 'grifting': What the royals are doing Down Under · The Morning Edition

• 0:03
  S1: For years. The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Prince Harry
• 0:07
  S1: and Meghan have been tanking in popularity. Meghan is now
• 0:11
  S1: the second most disliked royal, beaten only by the disgraced
• 0:14
  S1: Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. So why this faux royal tour Down Under now?
• 0:21
  S1: When the British monarchy is arguably on the nose. I'm
• 0:24
  S1: Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to Morning Edition from
• 0:28
  S1: The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald today. Senior writer
• 0:32
  S1: Bevan Shields on the recent bullying accusations against Prince Harry.
• 0:36
  S1: What they're doing here this week and how much they're
• 0:38
  S1: charging us for the pleasure. It's April the 14th. Welcome, Bevan,
• 0:45
  S1: back to the podcast.
• 0:46
  S2: Thank you for having me again.
• 0:47
  S1: Okay, let's kick off because Harry and Meghan's official tour
• 0:51
  S1: starts in Melbourne today. And surely you could not pick
• 0:54
  S1: a worse time for a tour connected with the British
• 0:57
  S1: royal family, right?
• 0:58
  S2: Well, there's a bit going on. There is a small
• 1:01
  S2: scandal I'm sure listeners have heard about involving Harry's uncle,
• 1:05
  S2: Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, who's in all sorts of strife. But there
• 1:10
  S2: is also, you know, a lot of other things going
• 1:12
  S2: on that make this a little bit weird. We've got
• 1:18
  S2: a huge crisis, global crisis in the war in Iran.
• 1:22
  S2: Cost of living is already a big issue in the
• 1:26
  S2: UK and Australia, only exacerbated by the war. And we
• 1:30
  S2: also now have the news that Harry is being sued
• 1:35
  S2: by a charity that he set up in 2006 in
• 1:38
  S2: honor of his mother, Princess Diana.
• 1:42
  S3: Just days out from arriving in Australia. Prince Harry has
• 1:45
  S3: some fresh legal woes, being sued for.
• 1:47
  S4: Defamation by a charity he co-founded.
• 1:51
  S3: He claims he orchestrated a campaign against it after resigning
• 1:55
  S3: last year.
• 1:56
  S4: Relationship now so damaged it's descended into a legal battle.
• 2:01
  S2: There's been a massive brawl between him and the people
• 2:04
  S2: who've been running the charity. It's now spilled out into
• 2:07
  S2: the public arena. I let's see where this goes. It
• 2:10
  S2: may not may be a bit of a flash in
• 2:11
  S2: the pan, but again, he's back in the news and
• 2:15
  S2: we've got this collision of all these things going on.
• 2:18
  S2: That does make it a really weird and awkward time
• 2:21
  S2: for them to be flying to Australia to dispense their,
• 2:25
  S2: you know, brand of wisdom to Australians.
• 2:27
  S1: Such that it is. Okay, so why in God's name
• 2:29
  S1: are they here? Why? Why are they here and why
• 2:31
  S1: are they here now?
• 2:32
  S2: Well, if you asked them, they would say, because we're
• 2:35
  S2: such wonderful people and we're here to, you know, make
• 2:39
  S2: everyone feel good and talk to charities that align with
• 2:42
  S2: our values. If you ask me, another cynical people like me,
• 2:45
  S2: this is about money and reputation. So yes, they are
• 2:49
  S2: doing some visits to children's hospitals and mental health charities
• 2:54
  S2: and things like that while they're here. There aren't a
• 2:56
  S2: lot of those visits, to be honest, and they're very
• 2:59
  S2: stage managed. They're very closely managed. But what this really
• 3:03
  S2: is about is money.
• 3:05
  S1: Okay, well, let's get into the personal rehabilitation in terms
• 3:08
  S1: of the reputation first, perhaps because the money's going to
• 3:11
  S1: go on for a while. So first of all, why
• 3:13
  S1: do they need reputational rehabilitation? Because I don't think I
• 3:17
  S1: realized just how unpopular they are. I mean, I knew
• 3:20
  S1: they were on the nose, but until I read your column,
• 3:22
  S1: I didn't realize just how bad. So walk us through it.
• 3:25
  S2: Well, to put it in context of just how bad
• 3:28
  S2: Megan is, the second least liked member of the royal family.
• 3:32
  S2: Only Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is more unpopular than her.
• 3:35
  S1: Um, let's just take a moment for that because that
• 3:36
  S1: is astounding.
• 3:38
  S2: Yeah. So there's a pollster called YouGov that for many,
• 3:41
  S2: many years has recorded public sentiment towards the royal family.
• 3:45
  S2: And it's absolutely fascinating to see how it bounces around
• 3:48
  S2: and reflects the times who's doing well, who's not doing well.
• 3:52
  S2: And while they're very Harry and Meghan are very unpopular.
• 3:55
  S2: Now that was not always the way. And in fact,
• 3:58
  S2: after their last visit to Australia in 2018, when they
• 4:02
  S2: were working members of the Royal family. Their popularity was huge.
• 4:07
  S2: So after that tour, Harry actually went back to the
• 4:11
  S2: UK as the most popular member of the royal family.
• 4:14
  S2: He eclipsed William, he eclipsed Kate, he eclipsed the Queen
• 4:17
  S2: who was alive at that point. He has now completely crashed. 60%
• 4:22
  S2: of people have an unfavorable view of him now, and 66%
• 4:26
  S2: have an unfavorable view of Meghan. So they are you know,
• 4:32
  S2: the public is absolutely off them. This is not a
• 4:35
  S2: case of, you know, it's polarized and there's sort of 50, 50.
• 4:39
  S2: Half of people love them. Half of people can't stand them.
• 4:42
  S2: There is a very, very strong sentiment against them. And
• 4:45
  S2: why this matters for them is their popularity is directly
• 4:49
  S2: tied to the amount of money that they will be
• 4:52
  S2: able to make. If they're, as you know, if they
• 4:55
  S2: are toxic, big companies are not going to want to
• 4:58
  S2: do business with them. So there is a dual element
• 5:01
  S2: here in my view, around this visit. One is around
• 5:03
  S2: making a little bit of money while they're here at
• 5:05
  S2: various events where they'll command a fee. And then also
• 5:08
  S2: it's about boosting, enhancing their reputation so that they can
• 5:12
  S2: keep making deals.
• 5:13
  S1: Okay, well, let's get into the money then, because boy,
• 5:15
  S1: you did not mince your words when you wrote in
• 5:18
  S1: your most recent column about what a moneymaker this could
• 5:21
  S1: be for them. You said, and I quote, forget interest
• 5:23
  S1: rate hikes, skyrocketing fuel prices and stubborn inflation. Harry and
• 5:28
  S1: Meghan are landing in Australia and happy to help relieve
• 5:31
  S1: us of all that spare cash they believe we're carrying.
• 5:35
  S1: So break it down for us. How much money might
• 5:37
  S1: they make while they're here?
• 5:38
  S2: Well, like all things Harry and Meghan, it's covered in
• 5:42
  S2: a little bit of mystery. They don't speak openly about this,
• 5:44
  S2: so we do have to rely a little bit on
• 5:46
  S2: some informed speculation. What we do know is an event,
• 5:51
  S2: a women's retreat that Meghan is headlining in Sydney on
• 5:54
  S2: the weekend. Tickets there cost $2,700 each. If you want
• 5:59
  S2: the privilege of having a group photo with her on
• 6:02
  S2: your table, you cough up another 500 bucks and you
• 6:05
  S2: get that wonderful experience. So that's a sense of the
• 6:08
  S2: kind of money Harry is doing an event in Melbourne
• 6:12
  S2: that is a for profit event, but some of the
• 6:15
  S2: money goes towards lifeline. There is a lot of talk
• 6:18
  S2: that he's getting tens of thousands of dollars for that
• 6:20
  S2: appearance now. Harry has talked a lot about mental health,
• 6:24
  S2: and I think he's actually quite genuine about his commitment
• 6:27
  S2: to mental health.
• 6:27
  S1: Yeah, yeah, he's been he's been quite open. Right. He
• 6:29
  S1: spoke about using eMDR for post-traumatic stress. But all of
• 6:33
  S1: that makes.
• 6:34
  S2: It a little bit hard to swallow that he could
• 6:36
  S2: be talking to an event about mental health and asking
• 6:40
  S2: for money for that. So yeah, they will probably get,
• 6:43
  S2: you know, between them two, $300,000 out of this trip potentially.
• 6:48
  S2: But as I say, I think this is also about
• 6:50
  S2: reputation restoration. And the better this trip goes off, the
• 6:55
  S2: better they look, the more likely organizations, companies will be
• 7:00
  S2: to do business with them.
• 7:01
  S1: Okay. Well, we're going to get into why they need
• 7:03
  S1: reputational rehab in just a little bit. But first, I
• 7:05
  S1: just want to ask you, I mean, is this gouging
• 7:07
  S1: that they might be doing financially? Is this unprecedented for
• 7:11
  S1: previous royal visits? I mean, would Queen Elizabeth II be
• 7:14
  S1: rolling over in her grave right about now?
• 7:16
  S2: Well, she certainly didn't, um, headline a women's retreat, uh,
• 7:20
  S2: the $2,700 a ticket while she was here. This is
• 7:24
  S2: what makes this visit so weird. They are trying to
• 7:26
  S2: pass this off as a de facto royal visit. And
• 7:30
  S2: it is not. It is not. Yep. Sure. They're going
• 7:32
  S2: to do some. They're going to do some charity visits
• 7:35
  S2: while they're here. But it is not a royal visit.
• 7:38
  S2: This is really unprecedented territory and I am just not convinced.
• 7:42
  S2: I think Australians to the you know, to the annoyance
• 7:45
  S2: of Republicans and the Republican movement in Australia, Australians are
• 7:50
  S2: largely sympathetic to the royal family and the monarchy. We're
• 7:53
  S2: very interested in them. Um, there's no sign at all
• 7:57
  S2: in the distant future that we are going to to
• 7:59
  S2: ditch them. But I am not convinced that this business
• 8:03
  S2: model that Harry and Meghan have created is going to
• 8:07
  S2: fly in Australia. I think that's where Australians will draw
• 8:10
  S2: the line and go, well, look, we're happy for royals
• 8:12
  S2: to come here and do what they've always done, but
• 8:15
  S2: if you come here and try and, you know, fleece
• 8:17
  S2: us of some money, that's where we draw the line
• 8:20
  S2: and that's and I think it will go down very
• 8:22
  S2: poorly when people realise the actual business model underlying this visit.
• 8:27
  S1: So do we prefer the royals of Queen Elizabeth the Second?
• 8:30
  S1: You know, the woman who famously, I think, accepted ration
• 8:33
  S1: coupons from members of the public to buy? I think
• 8:35
  S1: her wedding dress, because I believe it was around war time.
• 8:38
  S1: Is that is that what we want Royals?
• 8:39
  S2: People want a bit of authenticity. And I don't think
• 8:44
  S2: you could use that word to describe these two. They
• 8:47
  S2: also want access. They want to be able to go
• 8:50
  S2: to the opera House forecourt, as happened last time when
• 8:53
  S2: Harry and Meghan were here, and be able to try
• 8:56
  S2: and shake their hand and meet them. That is not
• 8:59
  S2: what is happening this time. This time it's all behind
• 9:01
  S2: closed doors. Every charity visit is very tightly managed. There's
• 9:06
  S2: a thing called a media pool, which is a very
• 9:08
  S2: small group of journalists who are picked to cover it,
• 9:12
  S2: and then all other media organizations, you know, use that,
• 9:15
  S2: use what they have gathered. And then the other events,
• 9:19
  S2: as we've discussed, you have to cough up an absolute
• 9:21
  S2: stack of cash to get in the door to hear them.
• 9:24
  S2: So there is no public access to these two during
• 9:27
  S2: this trip. And look, I also wonder whether, you know,
• 9:30
  S2: given everything that has happened with them, where their popularity is,
• 9:33
  S2: even if they walk down George Street tomorrow in Sydney or,
• 9:38
  S2: you know, Bourke Street Mall in Melbourne, would there be
• 9:41
  S2: a flock of people come out to see them? I'm
• 9:43
  S2: actually not sure, given how toxic they are.
• 9:45
  S1: And would they perhaps be heckled like King Charles was
• 9:48
  S1: not that long ago?
• 9:49
  S2: That's a big that's a big risk. And they always
• 9:51
  S2: all members of the royal family try and avoid that.
• 9:54
  S2: Everything is fairly tightly managed. It happens every now and then,
• 9:58
  S2: but they would be very, as a brand conscious couple
• 10:01
  S2: in a world of social media where moments like that
• 10:03
  S2: can go, can go viral and go crazy. They would
• 10:06
  S2: be very conscious of that.
• 10:07
  S1: Well, have the events actually sold out? Like have tickets
• 10:10
  S1: sold well? And do you think the public is actually
• 10:12
  S1: aware of just how stage managed this is and how
• 10:15
  S1: actually they might be selling it as royal visit, but
• 10:18
  S1: actually it isn't royal a visit and there isn't going
• 10:20
  S1: to be that access. Do you think people know that?
• 10:22
  S2: Look, I don't purely for the reason that this is
• 10:25
  S2: a busy time and a very difficult time for a
• 10:27
  S2: lot of people. They're trying to afford petrol, supermarket bills,
• 10:32
  S2: energy bills, all of that stuff. I think now that
• 10:34
  S2: they've actually landed in Australia, their little, you know, faux
• 10:38
  S2: tour is underway. I think people will engage a little
• 10:41
  S2: bit more and will be understanding what this is about
• 10:44
  S2: in terms of the ticket sales. Uh, there are still
• 10:47
  S2: tickets available for both events. The main event in Sydney
• 10:51
  S2: and Harry's mental health talk in Melbourne. That doesn't bode
• 10:55
  S2: well for the organizers and as I say, does possibly
• 10:59
  S2: speak to where their popularity and their sort of their
• 11:02
  S2: pulling power is at the moment. And look, as I
• 11:05
  S2: wrote in the piece, if people I don't criticize people
• 11:08
  S2: who want to go and hear from them, that's fine.
• 11:10
  S2: If you want to wait.
• 11:12
  S1: If you. It sounds like you are though, because it
• 11:14
  S1: sounds like you're saying they completely lack authenticity and they're
• 11:17
  S1: trying to mug us.
• 11:18
  S2: The Harry and Meghan. Yes, but if people want to
• 11:21
  S2: make a decision to cough up their own cash and
• 11:23
  S2: to go and do this, good luck to them. It's
• 11:25
  S2: a free country. They can do what they want. I
• 11:27
  S2: don't think they're going to get a lot from it,
• 11:29
  S2: but they're more than entitled to. My issue is that
• 11:33
  S2: this new business model that they have created is not
• 11:37
  S2: going to fly in Australia. And while they might have
• 11:40
  S2: few hundred, couple of thousand people going hear them speak
• 11:44
  S2: and pay money for that and potentially enjoy it, there
• 11:47
  S2: will be many, many more people that. This just goes
• 11:50
  S2: down like a lead balloon with.
• 11:55
  S1: After the break.
• 11:58
  S2: The reason for their plunge in the public's perception of
• 12:01
  S2: them is because of the decisions that they have made
• 12:03
  S2: since that split, because of the business model they've created.
• 12:07
  S2: And I just think there is this feeling that people
• 12:10
  S2: can't shake, that Harry and Meghan are all about Harry
• 12:15
  S2: and Meghan.
• 12:25
  S1: Okay, well, you just mentioned their their money model, and
• 12:27
  S1: I want to ask you a bit about that because
• 12:29
  S1: you had an incredible line in your piece about how
• 12:32
  S1: else they make their money, because it isn't just what
• 12:33
  S1: they're doing on this tour. Of course. And you mentioned
• 12:36
  S1: that they had struck a $20 million podcast deal with Spotify,
• 12:40
  S1: but the arrangement imploded after Meghan delivered just 12 episodes.
• 12:44
  S1: And this is the kicker. Spotify's head of podcast innovation
• 12:47
  S1: and monetization, Bill Simmons, later said he wished he had
• 12:50
  S1: made a podcast series about the ex-royals titled The Grifters.
• 12:55
  S1: So tell us, I guess about. Yeah, how they're making
• 12:58
  S1: their money.
• 12:59
  S2: Some of these figures are eye watering. I think there
• 13:03
  S2: is a perception that they're really hard up. You know
• 13:06
  S2: they don't have a lot of money. They have a
• 13:09
  S2: stack of cash still. Now some of these deals, as
• 13:12
  S2: you referenced with Spotify, have not gone to plan. Others have.
• 13:16
  S2: So here's a couple of examples. They struck a multi-year
• 13:18
  S2: deal with Netflix. There's been talk that maybe that deal
• 13:22
  S2: has not been going so well. Some of the projects
• 13:25
  S2: have done well, others have flopped.
• 13:27
  S1: And that was a reported $100 million multi-year deal.
• 13:30
  S2: Exactly. So that that's US dollars. So that is a huge,
• 13:34
  S2: huge amount of money. There's also the 20 million Spotify deal.
• 13:39
  S2: Harry got about a 20 million US as an advance
• 13:43
  S2: for his book spare, which actually sold very well. So
• 13:46
  S2: he would have done well out of that. The then
• 13:48
  S2: Prince Charles, now King Charles, gave them some cash when
• 13:51
  S2: they separated to help with the transition. And what is
• 13:54
  S2: not known is that the widely known is that Princess
• 13:58
  S2: Diana left Harry several million dollars in her will, and
• 14:04
  S2: the Queen mother, when she died, had set up a
• 14:07
  S2: trust so that when her grandkids at that time turned 40,
• 14:10
  S2: they would get some money out of that. And it's
• 14:14
  S2: reported that he that Harry got £8 million from that
• 14:18
  S2: trust when he turned 40 a couple of years ago.
• 14:20
  S2: So this is big money, you know. So again, you know,
• 14:26
  S2: when people in Australia are struggling with cost of living
• 14:29
  S2: right now, I just don't think there's going to be
• 14:31
  S2: a lot of sympathy for Harry and Meghan's grifting.
• 14:34
  S1: Okay. So does that partly explain their absolute tanking in
• 14:38
  S1: popularity from their last visit in 2018 to now? Is
• 14:42
  S1: it that they're seen as grifters? Is it that they're
• 14:45
  S1: seen as tone deaf and entitled? Like, why do you
• 14:49
  S1: think they are so reviled by so many people?
• 14:52
  S2: Again, if you could ask them and and people have
• 14:55
  S2: in interviews, they would say the answer lies in racism
• 14:59
  S2: and sexism. And I think that explains some things. A
• 15:05
  S2: small number of things. It does not explain everything. I
• 15:08
  S2: think the reason they're so unpopular is because of the
• 15:11
  S2: choices that they have made. I don't think even the
• 15:14
  S2: act itself of leaving the royal family in January 2020
• 15:18
  S2: was enough to cause the dip in popularity. I think
• 15:22
  S2: people were prepared to to give them a go and
• 15:25
  S2: see how that would work out. The reason for their
• 15:27
  S2: plunge in the public's perception of them is because of
• 15:30
  S2: the decisions that they have made since that split, because
• 15:34
  S2: of the business model they've created. And I just think
• 15:36
  S2: there is this feeling that people can't shake, that Harry
• 15:43
  S2: and Meghan are all about Harry and Meghan, and people
• 15:46
  S2: do not respond well to that when they are trying
• 15:51
  S2: to say, well, no, no, no, that's not true. We
• 15:53
  S2: care about this charity and that charity and this cause
• 15:56
  S2: and that cause. If people fundamentally can't shake this vibe
• 16:01
  S2: that these two are in it for themselves, and that's it,
• 16:04
  S2: that is a very hard thing to overcome.
• 16:06
  S1: And so what are the chances that this visit will
• 16:08
  S1: help repair the reputation of the royals after, of course,
• 16:12
  S1: Andrew Mountbatten Windsor's extraordinary fall from grace. And obviously that's
• 16:17
  S1: still to be played out, right? I mean, he's still
• 16:18
  S1: being investigated. As I understand it, charges haven't been laid,
• 16:22
  S1: so things could get worse. Of course.
• 16:23
  S2: Definitely. I don't think it will have any impact at all.
• 16:28
  S2: And while Andrew needs all the help he can get,
• 16:31
  S2: there are other members of the royal family who, despite
• 16:34
  S2: what's happening with Harry and Meghan, despite what's happening with Andrew,
• 16:38
  S2: are actually sky high in the popularity rankings like William
• 16:42
  S2: and Kate can do nothing wrong. And when you look
• 16:46
  S2: at their. You look at how YouGov has tracked their
• 16:49
  S2: approval ratings. It hasn't blipped it hasn't gone up or down.
• 16:54
  S2: It has just stayed sky high for the last 5
• 16:57
  S2: or 6 years. They can do no wrong. King Charles
• 16:59
  S2: there is a lot of affection for him at the moment,
• 17:02
  S2: I think. He seems to be doing a very good job.
• 17:05
  S2: The public feels the same. He's very human. He's he
• 17:08
  S2: seems to be extremely personable and and more in touch
• 17:13
  S2: than perhaps his mother was. He's going through cancer treatment.
• 17:16
  S2: So people are very conscious of that. So the royals,
• 17:19
  S2: other than Andrew are actually doing okay. Andrew was a disaster,
• 17:22
  S2: don't get me wrong. But I don't think that is
• 17:24
  S2: an existential threat for the monarchy. And I certainly don't
• 17:29
  S2: think anything that Harry and Meghan will be up to.
• 17:31
  S2: Bopping around Australia is going to particularly trouble the likes
• 17:36
  S2: of King Charles and Prince William and Kate.
• 17:39
  S1: And I wanted to ask you about, you know, whether
• 17:41
  S1: we're mugs then for helping to pick up the bill
• 17:44
  S1: for this visit. And you can walk us through just
• 17:46
  S1: how much we are or are not paying for the
• 17:49
  S1: pleasure of having Harry and Meghan visit us. Do you
• 17:52
  S1: think that this is the moment that we perhaps consider
• 17:55
  S1: cutting the apron strings with the monarchy. Despite what you've
• 17:58
  S1: just said, of course, about the popularity of William and
• 18:02
  S1: Kate and King Charles and so forth.
• 18:04
  S2: So Harry and Meghan and their team have been at
• 18:07
  S2: pains to stress that this trip is privately funded. That's
• 18:10
  S2: the term that they use. Now, that is true in
• 18:13
  S2: the sense of they'll pick up the bill for their
• 18:15
  S2: flights here, accommodation. Some of the private security that they
• 18:20
  S2: will have, their own staffing costs, things like that. That
• 18:23
  S2: is true. Now, if this was a genuine royal visit,
• 18:26
  S2: all those things would be covered by taxpayers. Normally, what
• 18:29
  S2: taxpayers will be on the hook for is policing. So
• 18:33
  S2: there is some talk, I believe that they may go
• 18:36
  S2: to the Bondi Massacre site. That's unconfirmed. We don't know
• 18:40
  S2: when that might be. If they were to go there,
• 18:43
  S2: there would have to be policing there. You can imagine
• 18:46
  S2: if something went wrong there.
• 18:47
  S1: Oh God.
• 18:48
  S2: What? That you know what that could the implications of that.
• 18:51
  S2: So there will be policing there. will pay for that.
• 18:54
  S2: They're going to go to the footy in Sydney. That's
• 18:56
  S2: a public event. You know there will be some policing
• 19:00
  S2: element at that. There's probably some policing element when they
• 19:03
  S2: arrive at the airport and leave all that kind of stuff,
• 19:05
  S2: that sort of policing we will be on the hook for.
• 19:07
  S1: Okay. Devil's advocate though. While I certainly don't want these
• 19:11
  S1: people to be harmed here, or anyone for that matter,
• 19:14
  S1: should we be even on the hook for that given
• 19:15
  S1: that they are not working royals? So what what do
• 19:18
  S1: we owe them?
• 19:18
  S2: Well, Harry's view on that that he has expressed previously
• 19:22
  S2: is he was born into this system. He was born
• 19:26
  S2: into fame. He's had paparazzi lenses in his face since
• 19:30
  S2: he was literally born. So his fame and potential to
• 19:37
  S2: make him and his family a target is out of
• 19:39
  S2: his control. And I actually have some sympathy for that. And,
• 19:44
  S2: you know, I do think a way of looking at
• 19:46
  S2: this is if something did go wrong while they were here,
• 19:50
  S2: it would be cataclysmically bad. Yeah. So I think, you know,
• 19:56
  S2: if they're in a public venue in the same way
• 19:58
  S2: anyone else that's high profile is if there's some policing
• 20:01
  S2: there look fine. But what we certainly shouldn't be paying
• 20:05
  S2: for is their flights, accommodation, staffing costs. We aren't. And look,
• 20:10
  S2: you know, whether or not people respond to this, let's see.
• 20:13
  S2: It's going to be a really fascinating week. It's going
• 20:16
  S2: to be fascinating to see how these private events go.
• 20:18
  S2: It's going to be fascinating to see what the public
• 20:20
  S2: sentiment is towards the end of the week. I may
• 20:23
  S2: be wrong. And, you know, there's this huge outpouring of
• 20:26
  S2: love and affection for them by the end of the week.
• 20:28
  S2: But I, I strongly I strongly doubt that, but we'll see.
• 20:31
  S1: Bevin, are you going to be going to any of
• 20:33
  S1: the events yourself just to witness it?
• 20:34
  S2: Well, we have applied for accreditation to cover some of
• 20:37
  S2: these things, but I suspect after the piece that we
• 20:39
  S2: have published today, they might be thinking twice about whether
• 20:43
  S2: I'm selected in that group of people to to go
• 20:46
  S2: and cover them.
• 20:46
  S1: And. Sure. And and while we don't know how this
• 20:49
  S1: is going to pan out in terms of their popularity here,
• 20:51
  S1: is it possible that Megan's going to be mugging us
• 20:53
  S1: on her way out. Because as you pointed out in
• 20:56
  S1: your piece, she's trademarked her as ever lifestyle brand in Australia,
• 21:00
  S1: signalling an impending expansion. I loved I loved how you
• 21:03
  S1: wrote this. The trademark was accepted for registration in June
• 21:07
  S1: 2025 under a category titled Bevin what was it fancy?
• 21:11
  S2: Which really, when I spotted that made me laugh for
• 21:15
  S2: a good five minutes. So yes, as ever, it was
• 21:17
  S2: initially partly funded by Netflix. Netflix has cooled on this
• 21:21
  S2: deal a little bit.
• 21:22
  S1: Wait, is that is that because a go to hostess
• 21:24
  S1: gift box of jams, honey and tea will set you back?
• 21:26
  S1: Wait a minute. How much? Bevin.
• 21:28
  S2: Uh, 132 us. Uh, what a steal. Uh, it's not
• 21:32
  S2: going so well as ever. Um, it's jams and honey
• 21:35
  S2: and candles and all this other kind of crap, and
• 21:38
  S2: people are not interested in it. They are not buying
• 21:41
  S2: what she is selling. Um, are we.
• 21:43
  S1: Going to buy it here? Bevin?
• 21:44
  S2: Well, I don't think so. I really don't think so.
• 21:47
  S1: Tell us. Tell us what the website declares as ever,
• 21:50
  S1: as being.
• 21:51
  S2: It's very modest. It's very modestly, declares the brand as ever,
• 21:55
  S2: as more than a brand. It's a love language. Uh,
• 21:59
  S2: so if you want to part ways with few hundred
• 22:01
  S2: bucks for.
• 22:02
  S1: Jam.
• 22:03
  S2: To buy into love language of jam, then, um, be
• 22:06
  S2: my guest.
• 22:07
  S1: Now, would it be fair to say after your column
• 22:08
  S1: that you think that perhaps money is Harry and Meghan's
• 22:11
  S1: love language?
• 22:11
  S5: I think.
• 22:12
  S2: That's, uh, that, uh, would not be inaccurate. No.
• 22:17
  S1: Bevan, thanks for your time.
• 22:19
  S2: Good to chat. Thank you.
• 22:30
  S1: Today's episode was produced by Josh towers. Our executive producer
• 22:34
  S1: is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa
• 22:38
  S1: Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow
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• 22:44
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