Latest / Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck / Interview with Fred Burks | Awakening and the Understory

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Interview with Fred Burks | Awakening and the Understory · Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Alive and Kicking Podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Kay Eck, and this is where we talk to ordinary people about their extraordinary lives.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to the podcast, everybody.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: So glad you're here with us in 2021.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: I have with me today Fred Burks, and I'm so excited to talk to you today, Fred, because I really love your work and I want to know how you got to this point in your life.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's going to be really interesting.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to be here.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And welcome to everyone listening or watching.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, thanks everybody for joining us.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: So where do we want to begin today?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: I I feel like maybe we should talk a little bit about what you're doing right now and where you're doing it and how you're doing it.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then we'll go back and talk about how you got to this point.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: So what's up, what are you up to today?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I would say my biggest mission in life has been to shine a loving light into the shadows.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's what I'm doing a lot of the time is really looking at the understory of everything that's going on.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's really clear right now that a lot of people are in fear understandably and and really afraid of what's happening with the virus, with the the stuff going on at the Capitol, politics and all of that.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm blessed that that stuff doesn't affect me too much because I really try to take a bigger, more expanded spiritual view and trying to look at what are the forces underneath um all of this, what are the various forces in play here and honoring them, but also shining a light.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So shining a light into those shadows so that then we can use that to help transform and become better people and to help humanity to take a step forward.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: And what I love about what you said and and your work is that you're viewing the events on multiple levels.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's there's the the understory that you talk about, and then there's the practical and the pragmatic and how it affects us, and then there's the overstory as well.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many different layers and lenses through which you can view the events that are occurring on the external and internally too.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like it's kind of like a magic, but it's also big.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a big mission that you have selected for yourself.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I would imagine you and a lot of our listeners know that there's a way that the external is a reflection of what's going on inside of us.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really try to find, okay, so this is happening.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: How, how somehow am I helping to co-create all of this and really taking responsibility not only for myself, but you know, the ho'o pono pono thing, where you is as much as possible taking responsibility for everything that happens and for my especially for my reaction to it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because I may not be able to change what's happening out in the world, but I have control and choice over how I interpret what happens to me.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Responsibility has really been a key word for me to guide my own path and to when I'm called upon to advise others, it's coming up so often.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like responsibility and ownership.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: And we don't get through it without those two um invoking those two incredible healing powers.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: So let's um talk a little bit about how you got to this place on your path.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: How did it start out?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: Can you talk a little bit about your childhood and who you were as a child?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, interesting that um I actually my father was uh became a minister when I was very young and in the Methodist church.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was brought up with that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully, he was he really taught us also to question authority.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: My dad definitely questioned authority, and the only thing he didn't particularly like is when we questioned him sometimes, but you know how that goes.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um I even questioned, you know, about you know, so what is this religious thing?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I really read through the Bible, and you know, so what is this whole thing and what's what's the meaning of this?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like I really came here to do something.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I was given a lot of gifts as pretty smart and good athletically and all sorts of stuff.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I want to use these gifts somehow.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so anyway, that got me questioning as a young child, and I eventually became agnostic and just well, I didn't even know if God really existed, and but I was gonna enjoy life and just do the best I could.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that was when I was a teenager, and then when I was 18, I ran up, got involved with this amazing group of born-again Christians, and these were not your Bible thumpers that you know, beat the you gotta do this, you gotta give your life to Christ.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: These were people like, let's live the life that Jesus lived, let's follow in his footsteps, really be loving.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so this amazing born-again group uh was just so incredibly loving and supportive.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I know everybody who's part of that group to this day looks back and goes, wow, we we did so much good in this world and with each other.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: But then what happened was I had to go away to college.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: That was my last year in high school, and when I left for college, that that group changed my life.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: That group was like, we really lived this life where we actually kind of ran our church because everybody said the youth group was just so on fire.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I got away to college and I'm just so missing this group of friends because I moved away.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was kind of like, oh, I gotta find a group like this.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went to the born-again Christians at college.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: These were the ones, no, you have to give your life to Christ now.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, by the way, I never even gave my life to Christ when I was with that group because I still hadn't seen what for me was kind of proof of the existence of God, and they were okay with that.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is like these were these were born agains who had given their life to Christ in that way, but they were okay that I it wasn't that way.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: So here I go to college and I meet this group, they're like, no, you have to give your life to Christ now.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like all this pressure, and it put me into this spiritual crisis for the first time in my life where it's like, whoa, I don't I don't know what to do, what to believe here.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so for the first time, I I have my core challenge is arrogance.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's a part of me that thinks I'm better than everybody else, and I'm gonna figure things out, and if God's there, I'm gonna prove it to myself.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So this spiritual crisis put me in an incredibly humble place where for the first time I said, Okay, God, if you're there, please show yourself to me.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a very sincere, heartfelt call from the place of deep hurting and missing this group of loving friends.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what happened within a month?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this book came into my hands through a friend in college called Life After Life by Raymond Moody.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was the very first book that came out about near-death experiences.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is before anybody knew about these things.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he interviewed something like over a hundred people who had been declared clinically dead, you know, no heartbeat, no breathing for certain amounts of time, some of them for 30 um minutes, an hour or more, but then came back to life.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he interviewed them and found out all these people from different religions, different walks of life had had very, very similar experiences of kind of going through this tunnel and coming to the light.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people have heard about this.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so reading that, it just blew me away.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this to me was proof of the existence of an afterlife of something greater, of not necessarily of God, because I've just never resonated with that term particularly, but of something greater.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that changed my life.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I started really investigating that, and then within a month of that, so this is all short, not too long after that prayer, another book came to me called Cosmic Con uh Cosmic Consciousness by Richard Buck, written in 1901.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it talked about humanity was now slowly moving into this new higher state of consciousness where we would be aware of all things and of our interconnectedness.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's his belief was that more and more people were coming into this consciousness.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is in 1901.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was reading one particular passage in that book.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I had it to read it to you, it's very inspiring, but said something to the effect of talking about a person who had done this and realized that the whole world is interconnected, that no matter what happens in the end, it all works together for the good of all of us, and that love is the underlying force of all that happens.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And as I'm reading this, something happens inside of me, and suddenly my crown chakra opens up.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know what a crown chakra was back then, but it's like this funnel opened at the top of my head, and all of this amazing information, like a huge spiritual download, just came pouring into my head, and I just started crying.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And oh this it was like suddenly I was given back all the wisdom from previous lives, and suddenly I didn't even know that carn reincarnation was real before that.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: But suddenly reading this book just opened something up, and I knew all these things that I never knew before.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was re-gifted with the wisdom that I chose to forget when I incarnated into this body.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now I didn't have specific past life memories, it was all about the understanding kind of of the really big picture of how reincarnation works, of how our souls grow through lifetimes, and of how all of this um allows us to expand and to play a significant role in this beautiful divine play that we're all a part of.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that experience at 19 really changed my life.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I have I have two things that I want to say to that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, I also have experienced really dramatic growth and understanding from reading near-death experiences.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it I think it appeals to a certain type of individual who happens to be very analytical, very, you know, kind of brain focused.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Because prior I grew up as I went to Catholic school and I always felt a connection to something larger.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: But it wasn't until I started reading those types of stories that I became comfortable with my life here on earth because I no longer worried about the afterlife.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: I just kind of like was able to let it go.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: And also I I want you to speak, if you could, to this idea of downloads because it's one of the things that I have the most trouble articulating to people who don't understand um what this is all about because it's like receiving a whole packet of information that you absolutely know is true with 100% certainty, except that it has completely bypassed your brain.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so I can't I've had trouble explaining this to people who tend to be sort of cerebral.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm wondering if you have a good explanation of it.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because actually the word download is perfect for particularly for cerebral people.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Think about a computer, and when you get it, it's just this blank thing.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, when you plug in a program, it downloads that a computer very rapidly, and suddenly this computer is now able to do all these functions because it was given this information, and now it's able to like do these new functions that it never could do before.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in a way, if for the cerebral people, if you think of our brains and ourselves as a kind of living computer, when a download happens, it's spirit giving us literally a program that comes in that suddenly boom, and now it's part of us, and now we have this whole new capability in a very short amount of time.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: I I think it's people, it's it's hard to um understand if you haven't experienced how you can know with so much certainty that it's truth.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I I can't explain it, it's just like you just know that you just know.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Some things you just can't explain.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: You just but people, what I trust is that people feel feel my sincerity, and most people will say, Well, I may not believe you, but I believe you believe it.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's great, you know.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I don't need to convince you of anything.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I it's funny because the um I did an interview, uh, a podcast with another guest just yesterday, and he also experienced a very dramatic crown chakra opening, but I don't find that that's typical.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: If there is a typical, I mean, I've certainly heard those stories before.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: I have not experienced that, and a lot of people that I know don't experience it.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm only saying that because I don't want people, you know, thinking like if they don't have that, then they're not no, it's not something you want.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't pray for that to happen.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's I wasn't expecting that.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, different people have different kinds of downloads, it doesn't have to be through the crown chakra or whatever.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, how did this particular event change you and how did it change your life?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it totally changed my life.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you know, I was I was asking questions along the lines of Christianity before that, feeling this pressure from this group and stuff, and suddenly, oh, it's so not about that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: All the religions are beautiful in their core, and all almost all the religions have been used for terrible things too, and are the cause of a lot of wars.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: But in their core, they all are trying to explore what this divinity is and what this divinity that we are, and I just really got that.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it you know, I still stayed friends with my old group and I love them dearly.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I go back for summers and stuff, we had great times.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I began a quest to understand, oh, so who am I really?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I got all this information which answered certain questions, like, oh, okay, so there's this reincarnation thing that happens and I'm growing, and I can see how certain souls are more expanded because they've had a lot more lifetimes and others haven't, but still, who am I?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And how is how what is my relationship with this divine, with this something greater?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just started devouring all sorts of books.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I used to be really into design interested in science when I was young.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was going to be a scientist, and my sister and brother became scientists, and um it totally switched me, and I was more interested in life and humans and people, and so that's what I began to really study.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I joined um an on-campus commune at UC Santa Cruz when I went to college there to sort of explore what's it like to live in an on-campus commune, lots of amazing stories there.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it put me on this quest.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I I got burnt out at first because I was like, I want to know everything.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like reading, reading and learning and doing all these things, and it was too much.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was learning so much up here, but didn't integrate it into my heart and body, so that I got way ahead and actually had to slow down after a year.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, whoa, whoa, I've overdone it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I need to really stop, slow down, and integrate everything.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it was it it totally changed, and I got really clear also that I am here in an unwavering with an unwavering commitment to live in service to all of us, to all beings.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the best description I use for the divine is all that is.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: To me, God or all the divine is the collective of all that is, it's a collective energy, and each of us is an expression of that.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Each of us is like fingers on the hand of God, if you want to call it that.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I have used the same word all to just when people ask me what I think of as the the divine or divinity, I just was like all, everything.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right, everything, yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about this process of gaining the information and then integrating it and what that looks like and why it's important.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well, I guess what I got from that year is that I can understand things up here, but if I get all the download just lands in your brain, it it's uh it becomes unbalanced because I think you know that the heart is is probably even more important than the brain.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: In a way, if when the brain serves the heart, that's when we really do well.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if I just have all this knowledge and I haven't taken it into my heart and I haven't embodied it and lived it, it's kind of like what's happening in our world right now.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Our science has gotten way ahead of our spirituality and our emotionality.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's this incredible imbalance that is playing out in our world, which I think is probably one of the underlying reasons we talked about those under under under layers that all the virus even happened because we have so much uh imbalance between the head of humanity and the heart and the spirit.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I really got that, and and from then on I kind of slowed down, and now I tend to go in waves where I'll have a spurt of growth, but not so so big and so overwhelming, and then I'll have sort of a time for integrating, learning, and really being what I've learned.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, it just tends to go in waves.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for me, I I feel like that um the when I'm the the the two parts of the whole that need balance in me is like it it's almost like you can explore and read and investigate your divinity, and then at a certain point it be it almost becomes cloudy, and you need I need to then step back into my humanity and live fully as a human as best I can, yes, and let the the divinity seep into the human experience, but but really put my humanness at the at the front of it, and sometimes that means just doing human things like cooking and walking and being with other people and just you know watching a funny movie, yeah, yeah, really um yeah, especially things like that, like silly things that are only available on the human plane.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: I I had a realization not too long ago that what would I do if I knew that this was my last incarnation on Earth?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I suddenly felt like I like that, yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, like I want pizza, I want warm breezes, I want, you know, like this the like the very human the most mundane of human experiences.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: I want to really soak myself in those experiences just in case I'm never human again.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: I don't, I don't know.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because you I kind of like you may notice I kind of know what it's like on the other side, and it's this amazing blissful space, but you don't have this physicality, you don't have like touch in the same way.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, you don't even have sex in the same way when you're on that other side.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, hey, we have these awesome bodies, we have this amazingly beautiful planet.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I totally get that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: If it's your last lifetime, yeah, let's let's enjoy it here.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do you enjoy the the humanness of your journey?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: What's your go-to?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I love getting out of nature.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: That is is my favorite.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I go on long runs once once a week and I run up.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's some beautiful hills out my windows here, and I go running up in these hills.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been blessed to travel all over and to see amazing sights, but I also love people and I love different cultures, and I've I've traveled all over the world, a bunch of countries, and um I love seeing the many different ways that people live and getting involved and you know, going like I lived in Indonesia and I would go to their mosques there and and pray with them.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've been to uh you know, of course, to to churches, been to the Hindu spots, to uh synagogues.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm I'm most interested in spiritually, but also I have to acknowledge that I have not given as much attention to beauty as I want because there's a way that I came here with this mission, which was I mentioned to shine a shine a loving light into the shadows, but um sometimes I get too focused at and I forget to really slow down and look at just the beauty that's all there all around.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there's even beauty, you know.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've had times where you can be in the middle of a city and there's a part of me that wants to judge, oh, this is all blah, blah, blah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: But wait a minute, stop a minute.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, look at this beautiful architecture.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Look at this street and how it glistens after the rain and when the sun shines on it.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember we're running on Miami Beach and looking at the hotels, it was like just after dusk, and the lights were shining, and I could just this is beautiful.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's Part of me that wants to say man-made stuff is not as good as nature, but then no, that's not really true.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's all beautiful if I can step and be in that really expanded state.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: That wherever I am, I can see and drink in the beauty all around me.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: So if you started this journey when you were a kid and you're continuing it still, how did you how did you merge your, you know, kind of your mission with your work life and you know, getting through the day, being able to pay for your food and pay your bills and stuff like that?
• 22:41
  unknown: Right.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's really interesting because like I said, as I remember being eight years old and knowing that I had a mission in this life.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was just very clear.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And my I I've kept a diary most of my life, and I would write many times.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know I have a mission, but I don't know what it is.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, once every year or two, I'd write something like that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I I was very clear that I was here to serve humanity, to serve all of us, including myself.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not going to sacrifice myself, which some people do, and I think that doesn't serve in the long run.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, but living in service, that was my guiding principle, my guiding deepest intention.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't get my mission until um my third big awakening.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: I saw the first was when I was 19.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: The second, very briefly, was a kind of a kundalini rising, this energy whole thing that's very magical.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm going to jump into the third, which was I think it was around late year in the year 2000 when I'd done a lot of work on myself.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'd healed my wounds with both of my parents, which was really good.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Felt I was really getting along with everybody, and I've I've hit a really good place where I'm living in harmony with all my relations.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I said, you know what?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, to prayer to the divine.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Again, this was another heartbelt for thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've been so blessed this lifetime, and I think I'm ready to look at whatever deep dark parts of myself that I haven't looked at yet.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want too much all at once, but anything this is helped me to see anything that I am really not seeing yet.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I put out that prayer, and again, it was a couple months later when I started getting some real answers to that prayer.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the first was this website called the Wingmakers.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Most people have met it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um you go to wingmakers.us, not wingmakers.com, but wingmakers.us, you'll see the website that I found.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it had this very intriguing information, and it just presented another very unique way of looking at life that really kind of shook me.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it had some strange stories about uh secret government programs about UFOs and ET contact and all that kind of stuff.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like I didn't know what to make of that.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like but the but the information about their philosophy really shook me to the core.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: It it's like it helped me to understand some things that I never understood before.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was an answer there.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then about uh six months later, a friend sent me a really wonderful spiritual friend who lived in, I think I was I was out here in the San Francisco area, and he's in North Carolina.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: He said, You gotta watch this video, it changed my life.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I said, All right, sends me the video.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I put this video in, and what it is, it was a talk at the National Press Club.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I should mention, um, I've had many miracles in my life, but one was that without even trying, uh first I became a language interpreter, which I had never planned on in Indonesian language after living in Indonesia, and then I ended up moving up the ranks without even trying, and I found myself interpreting in the White House.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had served all over the country working as a language interpreter, and even in Indonesia and a couple other countries.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I had gone to the National Press Club in Washington, DC, which is the most prestigious press organization in the country.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this video was something that took place a few months earlier in the National Press Club, where this um doctor, an emergency room doctor named Stephen Greer, um called together 22 government and military witnesses who are willing to give name, rank, and serial number.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they each of them had five minutes to share their personal experience in a huge UFO cover-up.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I had I had no context for this.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'd never had a UFO experience.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like I believe that probably I know there must be things on other planets, it'd be arrogant to think we're the only thing around, but I'd never had any serious experience.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: But hearing these guys, all people, the kind of people that I worked with in government, very highly respected people, saying that there was bases on the backside of the moon and just all this amazing stuff, it just blew me away.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if it'd been just two or three people, you know, I would like wait a minute, but this was 22 people.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So by the time that finished watching that video, I was in my jaw was on the floor.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my god, the world's not what I thought it was.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: If there's this huge cover-up of UFOs going on, then what else is going on?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I started really researching it, and I'm a pretty good researcher.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And before long, I found tons of information to show that sure enough, there is a huge cover-up going on around UFO presence on our planet and influence.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was like my the answer to my prayer.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: My prayer was show me the dark sides of what's going on, and boom, there it was.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so that put me on that was my mission.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I knew right what happened was first I I I talked to that emergency room doctor.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I got to have actually applied to be his personal assistant, and that didn't work out.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: But he's the one who told me, Well, if you really want to know what's going on in the world, read this book, go to this website, blah, blah, blah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: When I did all the things that he said, and suddenly it was like the matrix, it was like going down the rabbit hole, and suddenly I knew all learned all these things.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about the understory of everything that's going on, and it like, wow, it just completely changed my view of life.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't change who I was, but it gave me all this information again.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was almost like a download of this deeper level of things that are going on in our world that I had no idea existed.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I used to be kind of a debunker of that kind of stuff.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, nah, I can't believe that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, but that was my mission because um, what happened was it wasn't just the UFO cover-up.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: There was stuff going on with some serious stuff in the media, in the health industry.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: There was all this stuff that was way worse than I thought.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you I knew there was corruption, everybody knows that, right?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I had no idea how high and deep that corruption went.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I found all reliable, verifiable sources to do this.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I got very clear that this is my mission in life to help people who want to know what's going on in the world at the deeper levels, the under undercover story.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to make that information available.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so nobody at the time was putting all of this together.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like this, this emergency room doctor was doing a great job with UFOs, somebody else was doing a great job with new energy devices, somebody's doing a good job with media, but nobody was putting it all together.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I ended up putting together a website for those who want to know, it's called want to know.info, um, to use reliable, verifiable information to figure out what's really going on and more importantly, what we can do with it.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like how we can use this information to make better choices in our life and help transform ourselves and our world.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it was that when I was 43 when I finally got my life mission.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is it.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know this is it.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was incredibly passionate.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was putting 50, 60 hours a week into it.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I put$30,000 of my own money to make it all go.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so excited, even though some of the information was very disturbing.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's so much I want to say.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, I did not know that you had that Indonesian connection.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: When I was in college, I uh had to take a language, uh, obviously.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I had taken French in high school and I was terrible at it.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, if I start out in French and I have to take two years, I'm gonna sink.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be awful.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: So why not take a language I've never that that nobody's ever taken before, start at ground zero, and you know, maybe I'll make it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so I took Indonesian.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: No way.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: Where?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: What's cool?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: At Northern Illinois University.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I I ended up, it was like an accelerated program.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up only having to take one year, but I got so much I got so interested in Southeast Asian studies that I I ended up with a minor in it.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, yeah.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: So that's funny.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's wonderful.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Southeast Asia is is so have you been there?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Have you visited?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't, but it's definitely on my list.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely have a warm, beautiful place.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's definitely on my list.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but I also want to talk a little bit about your work because I feel that um the way you present the material is it's very um, first of all, everything is verified through prestigious sources.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you can also it you the the user is very much in control of the experience they want to have.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very balanced with um, you know, some of the information, and then also some ways that you can support your journey, and then some, you know, also the great, wonderful, beautiful things that are occurring on the planet.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so um how did you why did you feel that that was necessary?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: And what's what has surprised you most about what you've learned?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I to me it was absolutely necessary.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I would not put out all of this information that's disturbing if it didn't have some kind of balance to it because that's not who I am.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've I'm I've been an eternal optimist my whole life.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm incredibly optimistic because consciousness is eternal.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're stuck in this eternal moment.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can't get away from it, so why not kick back and enjoy it?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't put out stuff that's just going to make people disturbed and feel feel crazy.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have to have that greater context that this is an awakening.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I chose to ask to understand my own shadow, and I got shown the shadow of the world, which of course is reflection of stuff inside of me.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And what I know is when we get comfortable dancing with our own shadow and no longer fear our own shadow or the shadow of the world, then we can really live and we actually become more embodied.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: So when I created, I created three websites right off, and one was thewantonnow.info, another was weboflove.org.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the web of love talks all about how we are all interconnected through our hearts.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And my knowing is that everybody has a heart, and everybody in the has a deep place in the heart that wants nothing more than to love and be loved.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: When we're born as babies, that's who we are.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to be loved and cared for, and we want to love also, and that's where we all start.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if we connect from that place, we can create a web of love around this planet.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really interesting.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have sort of those two uh ends of the spectrum.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: One is all about love and connection, and the other is about, well, here's some crazy, disturbing stuff going on in our lives.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and how do we bring these two together?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: How do we and so both websites tend to gradually bring the person into the other so that there's like this interweaving that happens.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've besides learning about some of the most deep and dark and disturbing things that I never ever would have known existed, I've learned about the most amazing things going on in this world.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I've met some people that you would just blow you away.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned about people that I learned.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's one guy literally who's on the planet just died a few years ago, who's at the level of Christ in the way he could heal people and everything.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's so many beautiful, amazing things happening on the planet, and the press doesn't report those either.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is the thing the media I've discovered is controlled in certain ways, and they don't want to put out stuff that's too inspiring.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, wow, I wonder why that is.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, my my mission then is to both shine a loving light into those dark shadows so that we can have more choice, but also to show people what is possible, all the amazing things, the amazing communities in our world.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious, Kay, have you heard of Damenher, the most amazing community I've ever heard of or seen?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have Dominher in Northern, yes.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Is it in Italy or France?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Northern Italy, Northern Italy, yes, near Turin.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the founder of that community is the one who I said is kind of like Christ.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've read his autobiography, and amazing, amazing person.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And his belief was that we're not here to have an avatar anymore.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: The avatar is the old way where you had one great leader like Christ or Buddha.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: The new way is a community, is the avatar.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: A community is what's going to transform the world.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so he helped form this amazing community called Dominher.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh think you can go to dominher.org.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing stuff there.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's just one of the many things I cover about transformation.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we'll we'll put that in the notes as well, anything that we're talking about here today.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I I do want to say that um for people who are interested in sort of exploring the fullness of humanity, that you know, the initial realization of what humanity is and has been can be really um a heartbreaker.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: It can be a heartbreaker and it's shocking and it's disturbing, like you say, but I I feel like once you get over that initial resistance to what is, you you have a you come to a place of understanding about what it means to experience everything as God.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: And or that, or that to me, the the the higher, what I refer to as the higher power is the um the creative expansion of unconditional love.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's it's everything, it's in everything and everywhere.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so you can you you kind of come to a soft place about even the darkness, yes, and it's not so challenging anymore.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's still hurts judgment on it anymore.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, that's a part of life.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: The divine wanted to explore everything, and so it's explored shadow and light, and maybe ultimately there's no judgment, there's no ultimate good or bad, there's subjective good and bad, absolutely.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that it's a it's also a route through which you can come face to face with your fear, with this really deep, deep fear, and to release it.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I've I found that that that the fear of the shadow was kind of like one of the final thresholds that I felt in my life.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I first heard about you know the forces of darkness and their role in our lives, I was really scared.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: And sure, I didn't want to hear it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: I did not want to hear it.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh no, that's not for me.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm about love and light.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: When when did this happen for you?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, it was probably just a few years ago.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: And really well, yeah.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I had been accepting of other things like human behavior.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like I didn't have a problem, like I understood it's all available to us.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: But that particular aspect of it was really hard for me to hear, and I didn't, I just did not want to explore that at all.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: But eventually I had to because that's just the path I was on.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: And once I witnessed it and let it really sink in and do what it had to do inside of me, I don't have the fear anymore.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: And there's almost like very little, I just don't live with fear in my life anymore.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: That is the reward of going to the city.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right, because you're carrying this semi-conscious fear of the shadow, whether it's inside of you or outside of you.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just sitting there keeping you from really relaxing and being who you are.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, once you face that fear, and to me, this is a big part of our journey is to face our fears and actually befriend it.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, you can relax and suddenly you're more alive, you can enjoy all aspects of life more, you know, knowing that that exists, that there's some deep, dark, ugly stuff, but knowing I'm very clear in my intention, I have no intention of supporting anybody's suffering in any way, and I'll do what I can to stop it.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: But each of us can only do uh what's within our own reach.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if each of us does our best to be a healing, loving presence in the part of the world that we can touch, that's awesome.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the best a human can do.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and at first you might think that exposure to that level of corruption and um darkness will um would create a callousness um and a resistance to life, but it actually has the opposite effect.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: You become softer to everything.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I would have to say it's not for everybody.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why the website that focuses on that we call want to know.info, because some people are so overwhelmed in their lives for whatever reason that it actually might not be helpful for them to dive down that rabbit hole.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Those those who are ready, like for me, I was just ready.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, it can bring so much opening, but it's not like I I never try to push somebody to look at that stuff, right?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's so important to say because you really you it's an internally guided um process, and it it has to feel right and accessible to you and manageable.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: So, how would you say that people would know that they were ready for that?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: What does that feel like?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, to me, it's um the most important thing is for me to keep connected with my guidance and trust.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I basically I basically demand that my guides are in alignment with what's the greatest good of all beings.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I only have guides that work with me that are in alignment with what's best for all beings.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And because of that, I trust my guidance and I have all sorts of things that happen to show me when I'm on track and when I fall off track.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so if people really open and just open your guys and say, Are you ready to start to look at some of the shadow stuff and ask that question?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if the answer is yes, there's lots of ways to do that.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll just share that the the sort of the culmination of my life mission is something, it's an free online course called the Transformation Course.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's available at transformation team.net.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what this course is, it's 21 lessons that is a dance of shadow and light, where it starts off with some super inspiring stuff about how we are uh we are beings of love and things like that.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Just some great videos, quotes, essays, stories.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and then the second lesson goes into like the media and the role of the media in keeping us from knowing certain things.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so it takes a step into that shadows and explores that.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third lesson goes deep into personal responsibility and has some amazing stories.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Ho Pono Pono is in there.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so each lesson it goes from light to shadow, it's kind of like surfing the waves of life and shadow.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: But by the end of the course, as you were saying, you you know so much more about both the light and the shadow that we we consistently get amazing emails saying, Oh my god, you've changed my life.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, three people have literally said you saved my life and said exactly how we did that.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: So people who might feel ready, you might want to take a look at that uh transformation team.net and see if that online course calls to you.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: I might take a look at that.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds pretty cool.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't, I think you'll love it.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I know I'm sure you love it.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: Your your resources are so deep, there's so much.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: You can really spend a lifetime just on your websites.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's many people say they get they get lost because you don't have links and then another link, and you find yourself off in this other universe.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: I did a Facebook Live with a friend of mine, um, and we talked about the rabbit holes and how to how to navigate them in terms of knowing when you've gone too far and knowing how to extricate yourself and notice that it's okay.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so from your perspective, what does that look and feel like?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: How do you navigate when you've gone too far, when your job is to go all the way in?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to thank you, Kay, for bringing this up.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm realizing I want to put this out more strongly that we can talk here, there's forces in the world.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's a force that wants us to grow closer and get more in love and harmonious all the time.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also another force that wants us to separate and explore separation and even conflict and things like that.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Neither of these in themselves are bad.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like separation can be beautiful.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that you're there and I'm here means that we can have this rich conversation.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: If all beings were just act one, it would just be oneness.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: We lose this whole experiment.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: So separation has its usefulness.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's it's important to realize that there are forces that almost you could call want to push us towards what subjectively we might call the bad side, the negative side or the evil side.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that those are there and that they're playing their role.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is the the force that gives us a chance to kick in the butt.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I need a kick in the butt to get out of a stuck place so that we can learn and make better choices.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's important to acknowledge that that force is there and that it has its role, it has its purpose.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, we do our best to stop damaging behavior, but to realize that it is the dark force that sometimes gives us what we need to learn and grow.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to this is where I yeah, go ahead.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say really important, just it particularly when you're exploring the shadow stuff, but even the light stuff, follow your guidance.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: If oh oh, we were gonna talk about like the the cons some of these conspiracy theorists take it and they they get fed information that is so crazy and outrageous that anybody who goes there is gonna be called crazy.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it may be based in some reality, but I can tell you most of the quote unquote conspiracy theory websites put stuff out there that is so outrageous, it's just and and yet I really think that that's they've been fed information by people who want them to do that so that then they can be written off as oh, they're just crazy conspiracy theorists.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a way it's true, although there is an essence of truth to what they're showing.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: So don't believe, like you can go down these conspiracy holes and it'll go deeper and deeper, and you'll start being paranoid of everything.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, follow your heart.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you start feeling like, oh, this is not doing good things to me, don't go there.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and don't trust everything you see, you know.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: That this is why you know my sort of trademark is reliable, verifiable.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Check and make sure, like this whole QAnon thing.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's people that are falling into QAnon, and QAnon has revealed some important stuff, but it takes it way too far.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've been spot checking on some on some of the big QAnon stuff, and it's like maybe 60% accurate, which is relatively high.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: But that 40% that's not is Ruth Gator Bader Gator, uh Ruth Bader Ginsburg is an evil person who does child molesting and stuff.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: I go and check how did they get this information, and they're totally misinterpreting one decision she made in one thing that was a very tough decision that she made, and say this is proof that she's a child molester.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, whoa.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: So be careful, you know, when you go down these rabbit holes and follow your heart, always open, and when you find yourself moving into fear, that's a time to stop.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, and face that fear and what's coming up.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: And is it good for you to continue there or maybe to go somewhere else or to do some checking?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there are forces that want you to fall down these dark, dark rabbit holes that will end up with you depressed.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: The the most common email I get is thank you, you saved me.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was going down this deep, dark, evil rabbit hole, and you pulled me back to understand the shadow without you know having to all that craziness.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I I get emails like that all the time.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: I I think the good news is that we're a hundred percent in control of our journey, and we don't have to do anything that we don't want to do, you know, like that's it's we're completely autonomous in that.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I know for myself, the the way that I recognize that I'm too far into a rabbit hole is if I feel an urgency to tell everybody, or else they're not gonna know.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, like they have to know this, like right now.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think, like, okay, like nope, they don't need to know.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: You got updated.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm in too far, and I need to pull back and just balance this with my reality.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: My reality is telling me that, you know, like what I rely on is what I feel and experience with other humans in my world, at the grocery store, at the post office, on the street, on the phone.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: What is the feeling that is occurring between these the people that I meet?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's incredibly loving.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm feeling so much more love on the planet than even six months ago.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that is undeniable to me.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's great.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: How I balance my activity that way.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I wonder if you could just, you know, before we go to our lightning round, if you could just talk a little bit about what you're hopeful about.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I guess I would have to take this very personal to what I'm hopeful about, is because there's a way that I kind of thought, you know, I knew a lot more than everybody else because I've really researched this deeply and stuff, and I was very optimistic about where we're going.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: And with everything that's going on, to be really honest, it's like, wow, it's not even about being optimistic.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's about just being here, present, fully available, and not trying to look or predict where it's going in the future.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, that's been big to let go of almost a spiritual need to know that things are going to be okay and instead say, no, things are okay and focus there.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, this has been big.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is kind of what the virus has taught me, right?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because I got really concerned, uh, because to me, it looks like there's a lot of control and loss of liberties and stuff going on that was very disturbing and that people couldn't see that.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it was getting to me.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, so I had to really look, okay, what's going on?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized, oh, I'm attached to this view that, oh, you know, this is the way it's gonna be.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been very powerful to get me even more in the moment, say I don't know what's gonna happen.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because people ask me that because I have quite a following.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have like 14,000 subscribers and blah, blah, blah.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I don't know where it's gonna go.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, what's important is I'm just here doing my best to be a loving, supportive presence and inviting more harmony into our lives and world.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's who I am, that's who I choose to be.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: And as long as I'm living that, I can feel really good about myself and relax and not be so concerned about the future.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, I think that's really powerful.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: Really powerful.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: And and I I want to add just from my own perspective, is again that the the idea that life is so short, and so like, and maybe it's because I'm older and um but I just feel like I can take anything for 20 more years, you know.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's great.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm okay with it, but um of course I want it to be good, but if it's not, I'm that's fine, you know, and not to judge it and just be like, I'm just here.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, well, this has been so much fun.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like we could we could spend a lot of um time, but I want to move on to our lightning round.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: So if that's okay with you.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: So the first question I have for you is have you had to break hard habits?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: And if so, what are they?
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Probably um I've got two that come to mind.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: My one is that I keep myself so busy that it's um it's not healthy for me.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I tend to really overfull my life, overfill my life with so many things, and then I feel this pressure to get things done.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: And this has been ever since I was a a teenager, and I've just been working on it.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's one habit that it's been very slow process of breaking.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um boy, I had another one and I already forgot it.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: Must not have been quite as important as that one.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's my biggest one is like time.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how do I manage my time and and more enjoy just being in this moment and feeling like oh I have all these things to do?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: I I feel like that is a little bit of a one of the traps of having a spiritual mission, is like I gotta get to get I gotta get this done.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: This is for the planet, you know?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I I find myself um falling into that a little bit.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think like, is it really that important?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: Am I really that important?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, right.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's funny.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so number two is do you connect with your ancestors?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: And if so, how?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, it's interesting.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't actually connect that much with my ancestors.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've certainly had some experiences, but I've always felt like um my soul hasn't spent many lifetimes on this planet.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't feel as much connection um as I have some friends who have this amazing deep earth connection and connection to the ancestors, and I love it, it's beautiful.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't have that as strongly because it's kind of like my ancestors are from another planet or something, almost that's the sense.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but yeah, I and I've had some experiences, you know.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: My grandmother came once to me and got some great messages, but I'm I'm just not that connected.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's interesting.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: You bring up some interesting points there because I I have said, like, you know how some people are like so connected to animals, yeah.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think like this just isn't my lifetime for animals, it's just not, you know, like I'm just doing something else this time.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_03: And right I do feel that for myself, I have I have had some really strong past life experiences, really strong, like wow, and they were mostly traumatic.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've had a couple traumatic ones too, yeah.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I also don't feel super connected to um to earth ancestors really at all.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I don't really feel connected to I don't I don't actually experience like a lot of noise.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like me, I have like a really pure channel to my understanding of my divine knowing, and there's not a lot of interference in that.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know whether I don't know if that means that that I'm young or old.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: Could be either.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's who you are.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's beautiful.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, minus similar.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's yeah.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um would you, I guess you probably have already answered this, but would you like to live in another country?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_03: If so, what would that one be?
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I have.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, is am I feeling drawn now?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: I so I lived in China for two years, I lived in Indonesia for a year, and I've spent another two years traveling all over the world.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm two years cumulative, not just yeah.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not feeling called right now to live in another country.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think about it sometimes because I have, and it's like it's so fun, but I just love the communities that I'm a part of.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have some wonderful communities, and so that would just be really hard to leave to go live in another country.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: The visit and spend a month or two?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I do that occasionally.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what sounds wonderful.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um do you worry?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do I worry?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I think I just covered that some that I was really worried for humanity just um because of some of the things going on with COVID.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the fact that even that uh nobody's looking at the this year's Nobel Peace Prize winner says that the number of people on the brink of starvation has doubled since COVID started.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: And this is not because of the COVID, it's because of the lockdown and that there's better ways to do what we're doing.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: That the the knee-jerk reaction to what's happening is just not been healthy.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was very worried about humanity, not about myself, I can handle it, but about humanity.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: And as I said, this has been my big lesson to just really like, whoa, I have to just trust that I'm here to do my part, and humanity is going to go where it's go, and I don't know where that is.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: But my job is just to be here in the present.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I I've pretty much that worry is still there, but I'd say it's much smaller.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do worry about anything, that's what it is.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the future of humanity.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I do my best to say, you know what, it's that's not what it's about.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: I I understand that worry about humanity, but I usually I figure because I feel the same way, like I'm I'm I'm gonna be fine, you know.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever happens, I'm gonna be fine.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: So why wouldn't I believe that about humanity?
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: Why why would why would I think that humanity is weaker than me?
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're gonna be fine, it's gonna be all right, you know, generally.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what has been your hardest lesson?
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: My hardest lesson.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm sure it has to do with my arrogance.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's times when I just really get caught up in in the I'm right, you're wrong thing.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm definitely getting better at it, but uh um yeah, it's you know, I was gifted with a very intelligent brain, a very capable body, and so and some things happened with my dad when I was very young that really locked in this arrogance in me.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: He was arrogant and I had to meet his arrogance.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's been some really hard lessons um in humility.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that my biggest gift has been something that happens that really humbles me.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had numerous, I I occasionally do sacred medicines, and they have brought me to my knees.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, showing me that that it's not about that at all, uh about being better than anybody else.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: So those are I want to share a one thing that has come up for me uh recently that I've been able to um sort of alchemize, I guess you could say, or release.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I it was a realization that um I always knew that I had I was running a rescuer program from the time I was a little kid.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_03: I was like always befriending the misfit and making sure that you know the kid that nobody wanted to talk to, that I was sitting at the um lunch table.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I have seen how this has played out in my life, and I just realized how much ego is in that program.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: Rescuer, yep.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was um, you know, that I felt like I had my shit together and other people didn't, and I was like, you know, I knew what I was doing and they didn't, and I was better than them.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I so I had to, and curiously, everything that I've done recently, like in the last five years, that has been fueled by the rescuer program has completely fallen apart.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, and um like and and like had some serious backlash for me.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: And um so I had to face that within me and to to to understand the ego that was involved in that.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_03: And once I was able to see that, I I feel so much freedom now because I don't have to help anybody.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I and now I have um this really clear uh understanding of when my generosity is in alignment with generosity and when it's in when it's out of alignment and it's in rescuer mode.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to acknowledge that there's a beautiful sentiment there in your desire to help those in need, because that's part of what's driving it.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: But as you're saying, if it's done from a place of I need to do this to help this person, there's there's some sort of ego involvement, there's some sort of story that's running you.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's very different than what you're talking about now, where it's like, no, I don't need to do that, but rather I'm really, oh maybe I don't need to do that right now.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's something else.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: And oh no, this is where I'm feeling called right now.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a choice, not running an old program that says I need to rescue.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and oh my gosh, the freedom I'm experiencing.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's so, it's so good.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: Ugh, feels good.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I have that program and I have it still running too.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so these kind of things tend to not go away completely, but they get to a place where you're aware of it and you can really okay, now I can kind of have more choice around it.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just you know, incremental improvements is all I'm asking of myself.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, did you bring a question for me today?
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um how to frame it.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: What is your deepest soul's desire?
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: Your soul's deepest desire.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: I I think it's it's so simple, it's just to know itself.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm I'm really deeply immersed, as I was just speaking about, in knowing what I'm not.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm being showed shown all kinds of things that I thought I was that I'm not.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's just to know who I am, and I think that it's like there's I have this vision of the the soul as an endless journey of of knowing more of that, being more and knowing more.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so my soul is out in front of me, and I'm following it, and it's it's like I've only now come to the realization that there will only ever be more and more and more to know about that.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so I it there was a time when I found that prospect exhausting.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh no, I I cannot do this for eternity.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no, it's too hard.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: I need a rest, I need like a vacation from my soul exploration.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I and it it's been really hard for me to get comfortable with the fact that this might never end.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_03: It it if it, you know, like I need a nap.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but I'm getting there, you know, and and um I'll accept it someday.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_03: May not be every day, but well, then there's a way.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: Here you are, you're having your nap.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think an incarnation on earth can be a nap.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh god.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_03: Seriously, this is a nap.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I mean, what's what's really a nap?
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, parts of your life.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you must have had times.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've certainly had times where like, oh my god, this is so amazing, so awesome, right?
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that those are like the nap times.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but no, Earth is a school for most people.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I had one girlfriend who this lifetime is a nap for her.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: She just gets to enjoy, you know, but she's had other lifetimes really hard, and this one she's has it easy.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but most of us choose to come here as a school, and so in school, there are hard lessons, and like sometimes really hard lessons, but there is recess.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: When we get to go out and spend time in nature or whatever.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_03: And don't skip recess, do not go in for extra assignments and extra credit.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, take recess.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I kind of also feel more of that.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm yeah, more recess, more recess, less, less lessons.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I kind of feel that this life has been pretty easy for me.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_03: And even that, even being able to say that, it's still hard.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: So sure, yeah.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I yeah, I I feel so blessed.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: My life has been comparatively compared to most people, very easy and blessed.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I have clear memories of a couple lifetimes that were so, but you know, part of the reason is is so I could do the work because I do this work of really looking into the shadow, and so I needed a good solid base and relatively easy life enabled to in order to do this.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: I feel the same way that my my mission must be supported by that because that's just the way it is.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_03: So well, I want to thank you so much for being with us today.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, I feel like we could do 10 of these and still dive deeper, but I've really enjoyed getting to know you and your work and um your perspective on things.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to thank you for being here.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Kay.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: I so love your questions, your depth, your your connectedness.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: I want to mention that before we started, you called in all these beautiful spirits, which I always do too.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for who you are and for the work that you are doing.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's really beautiful.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you also for your support of me and my work.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.