Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 36: Drew Forsyth on high-performance portraits and a holy grail Hasselblad; OM System PEN arrives, GoPro Mission 1 Pro ILS hands-on

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36: Drew Forsyth on high-performance portraits and a holy grail Hasselblad; OM System PEN arrives, GoPro Mission 1 Pro ILS hands-on · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:09
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to the Photography and Video Show podcast.
• 0:12
  David McClelland: It's me, David McClelland.
• 0:14
  David McClelland: It's September 2026 and coming up in today's show.
• 0:18
  Drew Forsyth: I shoot digitally and I shoot for clients and you know it's my job.
• 0:22
  Drew Forsyth: And I think if you're not careful, it can really start to just feel like your job.
• 0:26
  Drew Forsyth: When I bought the camera, I thought, oh, I'm gonna start shooting on film, which is something I'd never really done before.
• 0:31
  Drew Forsyth: And so that was a whole new discovery.
• 0:32
  Drew Forsyth: I thought, oh wow, this is amazing.
• 0:34
  Drew Forsyth: And then forcing yourself to work with an aspect ratio that is just wildly impractical has been amazing.
• 0:41
  Drew Forsyth: And suddenly, like it really kind of resets your photography brain because you have to think, oh my goodness, how on earth am I gonna fit all of this in that tiny little letterbox?
• 0:51
  David McClelland: Commercial and advertising portrait photographer Drew Forsyth joins us to talk about his work chasing high performance and how a holy grail camera gave him a new lease of love for his craft.
• 1:04
  David McClelland: And we have some exciting updates to share ahead of the in-person photography and video show at the Excel in London next March, including a street full of newly confirmed brands and exhibitors, and first news of some exciting events and workshops taking place in London over the next few months.
• 1:24
  David McClelland: All of that in our "What 3 Things" feature coming up later on.
• 1:29
  David McClelland: Before we start, I want to say thank you all for listening to this new series of the podcast.
• 1:34
  David McClelland: But did you know that you can watch now too?
• 1:37
  David McClelland: We are video almost everywhere now on YouTube, as we have been for a while, but also now on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify.
• 1:46
  David McClelland: Look, it's exactly the same version of the show as the audio version, but for some extra visual treats, so in our chats with our professionals about their work, then do check out the accompanying video versions too.
• 2:01
  David McClelland: Anyway, whether your pictures or your sound, or a bit of both, then let's crack on with this month's photography and video news headlines.
• 2:09
  David McClelland: It's the news headlines for September 2026, and Tech-tember has certainly delivered.
• 2:19
  David McClelland: The PEN is back.
• 2:21
  David McClelland: The first PEN camera under the OM System brand arrives with a RangeFinder-inspired body, built-in viewfinder, splash-proof weather ceiling, and a 20-megapixel sensor from just £849 body only.
• 2:36
  David McClelland: The PEN Series turned 67 this year, and we think it's aging rather well.
• 2:42
  David McClelland: Meanwhile, GoPro has had quite the summer launching the Mission 1 Pro ILS, its first ever interchangeable lens mirrorless camera with a micro four thirds mount, before announcing a merger with US tech company Starman Optical.
• 2:57
  David McClelland: The company that invented the action camera category is now reinventing itself.
• 3:02
  David McClelland: September has also delivered a holy trinity of lens news.
• 3:07
  David McClelland: Sony's first fisheye zoom for its mirrorless e-mount system is an 8-14mm at constant f3.5 aperture, a brand new Fujifilm XF400mm Super Telephoto F4.5 Prime lens for its X mount system, and Nikon announcing development of no fewer than nine Z mount Cinema lenses.
• 3:30
  David McClelland: Nine! Apple has also taken to the stage the iPhone 18 Pro arrives with a mechanical variable aperture on its main camera, six actual blades thinner than human hair, and some proper manual controls and overlays.
• 3:46
  David McClelland: Hallelujah! And finally, Pentax has announced that it's axing its entire DSLR lineup.
• 3:54
  David McClelland: The last brand standing in the format, it says something entirely new is coming.
• 3:59
  David McClelland: Sadly, it's not able yet to tell us what or when.
• 4:02
  David McClelland: Those you news headlines, you're up to date.
• 4:05
  David McClelland: And joining us to pick over this month's news headlines is none other than Digital Camera World's U.S.
• 4:14
  David McClelland: editor, Hillary Grigonis.
• 4:16
  David McClelland: Hello, Hillary.
• 4:17
  David McClelland: Welcome to the Photography and Video Show Podcast.
• 4:20
  Hillary Grigonis: Hi, David.
• 4:21
  Hillary Grigonis: It's nice to be here.
• 4:22
  David McClelland: And where is here for you?
• 4:24
  David McClelland: And tell me just a bit about your background and what uh what sort of stuff you cover as U.S.
• 4:30
  David McClelland: editor for DCW?
• 4:32
  Hillary Grigonis: Sure.
• 4:33
  Hillary Grigonis: Um I'm based in uh Michigan in the US.
• 4:36
  Hillary Grigonis: Um I've been a writer and a photographer for about a dozen years now, um, both side by side writing and photography.
• 4:45
  Hillary Grigonis: Um for DCW, I handle a lot of news.
• 4:48
  Hillary Grigonis: Um I also write a lot of hands-on, uh, which means I get to play with all the latest cameras, which is loads of fun.
• 4:55
  David McClelland: Yeah, great job.
• 4:56
  David McClelland: Great job.
• 4:57
  David McClelland: You are uh, I will say this uh to our audience, you are prolific.
• 5:01
  David McClelland: Uh the amount of really, really great work of yours that appears on the DCW website.
• 5:06
  David McClelland: Uh, it is uh, well, I I applaud you for the depth of your work and also the volume of it as well.
• 5:12
  David McClelland: And you mentioned the hands-on work that you do.
• 5:15
  David McClelland: I think that's what we're going to lean into today because in the news headlines a few moments ago we saw that GoPro, big summer for GoPro, lots of news around GoPro at the moment, and maybe we'll come to the business side of GoPro in a few minutes' time.
• 5:29
  David McClelland: But first of all, you have been hands-on with the GoPro Mission One Pro ILS.
• 5:35
  David McClelland: That's a bit of a mouthful there, lots of pros in there.
• 5:38
  David McClelland: Um, but tell us what tell us where this comes from, because it it's clearly a an interesting camera, a big time for GoPro as well, as it maybe seeks to reinvent some of what it's traditionally done for a new market or a new segment at least.
• 5:53
  David McClelland: What is the GoPro Mission 1 Pro ILS?
• 5:57
  Hillary Grigonis: GoPro told me that they have actually been dreaming of swappable lenses on a GoPro since about the Hero 4.
• 6:04
  Hillary Grigonis: So they've actually been thinking about this for a long time.
• 6:06
  Hillary Grigonis: You know, they've been doing lens mods before this for a few years.
• 6:10
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, but the Mission One Pro ILS is the first actual interchangeable lens camera from GoPro.
• 6:16
  Hillary Grigonis: It looks very much like a classic GoPro, and the spec sheet is almost an identical match to the Mission One Pro without the ILS in the name.
• 6:28
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, so you have 8k 60p video.
• 6:32
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, if you want open gate, it's up to 8k 30p.
• 6:35
  Hillary Grigonis: Slow-mo is uh 32 times, which is 960 frames per second.
• 6:41
  Hillary Grigonis: And if you've never seen it, you should really see it because it's really incredible.
• 6:44
  Hillary Grigonis: So the ILS has all of that, except instead of GoPro's classic fixed ultra-wide angle lens, there is a micro four-thirds mount.
• 6:55
  David McClelland: Yeah, and this is what's taken a lot of the news headlines, I think.
• 6:59
  David McClelland: And obviously, it was earlier this year, was it um spring-ish, I think, when the whole GoPro mission one thing and GoPro's pitch for that was a compact cinematic camera system and the one, the one pro um, you know, the fixed lens that that we associate, have associated with GoPros for a very, very long time.
• 7:20
  David McClelland: And now the ILS, clues in the name, interchangeable lens system.
• 7:24
  David McClelland: It is um micro four-thirds compatible, sort of.
• 7:29
  David McClelland: Well, what what's the I'm not gonna call it a wrinkle necessarily, but there is a big caveat when you talk about attaching micro four-thirds lenses to this GoPro, uh, and it's the lack of electronics.
• 7:43
  David McClelland: What does that mean in practice?
• 7:45
  Hillary Grigonis: Sure.
• 7:46
  Hillary Grigonis: There's actually a couple different things that that means.
• 7:48
  Hillary Grigonis: First, the ILS is fully manual, um, so it's all manual focus.
• 7:53
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, but that also means that it can't use what's called focus by wire lenses.
• 7:58
  Hillary Grigonis: So a lot of your autofocus lenses that are from like OM system and Panasonic, um, they actually require the electronics in the camera to focus even in manual focus mode.
• 8:09
  Hillary Grigonis: So those lenses will not work with the ILS.
• 8:12
  Hillary Grigonis: You need a manual focus only lens.
• 8:16
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, so that does eliminate a lot of the um great options out there, but there's still a ton of manual focus cinema lenses available for the ILS.
• 8:26
  Hillary Grigonis: There are um a couple other caveats, though.
• 8:28
  Hillary Grigonis: It's not just that manual focus only.
• 8:32
  Hillary Grigonis: The ILS is actually so small that it can't handle lenses that are over 250 grams without an external support system handling the weight of that lens.
• 8:43
  David McClelland: Oh wow.
• 8:44
  Hillary Grigonis: Right.
• 8:44
  Hillary Grigonis: I was a little disappointed because when I got it, I really wanted to try it with um, you know, some of my really big telephoto lenses.
• 8:51
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, it has a one-inch sensor with a micro four-thirds mount.
• 8:55
  Hillary Grigonis: So that's about a three times crop factor.
• 8:58
  Hillary Grigonis: Um that's gonna be a little challenging for the ultra-wides, but I thought, you know, this would be really fantastic on a telephoto lens.
• 9:05
  Hillary Grigonis: Uh, but those are um a bit too a bit too large for for the ILS.
• 9:10
  Hillary Grigonis: So I wasn't able to um shoot with it like that.
• 9:14
  David McClelland: But so that that that lack of electronic controls, like you say, uh I guess uh you've been out with the camera, you've you've tried a few different things with it.
• 9:26
  David McClelland: I guess this brings into question, particularly given the lack of uh automatic focus, it it brings into question what this camera is actually for, because I think what you've described with with some of the limitations with that with the uh detachable lens or or the interchangeable lens system, d does that actually mean that it's going to be less capable or less useful or just require a whole lot more effort or thought to using it as an action camera?
• 9:57
  David McClelland: Because that's what we think of when we think of GoPros.
• 10:00
  David McClelland: To what extent is the GoPro One Pro ILS a bit hindered in terms of it being an action camera by these limitations that are foisted upon it by having the interchangeable lenses?
• 10:17
  Hillary Grigonis: The ILS is very much a purpose-built camera.
• 10:20
  Hillary Grigonis: So GoPro, they're not trying to go after Canon and and Sony and Nikon, and they're not really even trying to go after photographers.
• 10:28
  Hillary Grigonis: The ILS is really built as a compact filmmaking rig.
• 10:32
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, it's mountable and it fits in small spaces.
• 10:35
  Hillary Grigonis: Um and then the other really big thing is that it's really the only other 8k camera at this price point.
• 10:42
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 10:42
  David McClelland: 599 pounds, I think, here in in UK money, which is w however you look at it, that's an attractive price point, isn't it?
• 10:53
  Hillary Grigonis: For sure.
• 10:54
  Hillary Grigonis: For sure.
• 10:54
  Hillary Grigonis: It's um, you know, for those kind of specs, um, it's really hard to find a a camera like that at that pri price point.
• 11:04
  David McClelland: So what have you enjoyed most about this?
• 11:08
  David McClelland: Like we say, you you've you've been out and you've used this for a few things, maybe not with your telephoto lenses that that you initially thought because of those uh weight challenges.
• 11:17
  David McClelland: But what have you found it it's really excelling at in in your usage of it?
• 11:22
  Hillary Grigonis: So I'm actually more of a photographer than a videographer.
• 11:25
  Hillary Grigonis: So using the ILS was kind of a fun experiment for me because I knew going in going into it that it wasn't built for still photos.
• 11:34
  Hillary Grigonis: Um so I I just had a lot of fun um shooting different video and you know trying to tell a story with more than a still photo, um, which is a lot of fun.
• 11:45
  Hillary Grigonis: I took it out for I did some portraits, I did some low light, I tried out the slow-mo, um, which as I said before is fantastic.
• 11:53
  David McClelland: So it sounds to me as though, particularly for that kind of price point, it's is uh a fun way to do some stuff.
• 12:00
  David McClelland: Like you say, uh, you know, you are photo first rather than moving image images first.
• 12:05
  David McClelland: But actually, this gives you an opportunity with some really high capabilities and some some creative challenges as well.
• 12:12
  David McClelland: Let's face it, with the lens system too.
• 12:15
  David McClelland: It gives you an opportunity to uh shoot some potentially some really interesting stuff that maybe if the camera were a lot more expensive and if you were investing in a full-sized, shall we say, mirrorless system, maybe that's not something that you might have experimented with as a photographer.
• 12:32
  David McClelland: But the GoPro makes it accessible for the price and for the capabilities.
• 12:37
  Hillary Grigonis: Absolutely.
• 12:38
  Hillary Grigonis: Yeah, like your typical GoPro, you know, you won't get that background blur.
• 12:42
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, you can't adjust the focus.
• 12:45
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, this can do all of that.
• 12:47
  Hillary Grigonis: And yet it does feel a lot like a GoPro.
• 12:50
  Hillary Grigonis: Like the the um touch screen feels the same, the design is almost identical um to the mission one pro.
• 12:58
  Hillary Grigonis: Another key difference though, um, is that it is not waterproof.
• 13:02
  Hillary Grigonis: Um so I still think there is definitely still a market for that fixed lens uh mission one and mission one pro um because this is uh not splashproof unless you pair it with a weather-sealed lens and definitely not submersible.
• 13:19
  David McClelland: And I guess we have to bear in mind that, well, again, the clue's in the name is the mission one pro.
• 13:25
  David McClelland: This is the first iteration of what is a big step, I think, for GoPro.
• 13:31
  David McClelland: So yeah, it it might not have everything that everybody wants at this first step, but if it's indicative of a direction that GoPro is either going in as a whole or maybe uh a particular market, a particular segment that it's looking at going after, that in and of itself is really exciting, even if the one doesn't quite have everything nailed down quite yet.
• 13:56
  Hillary Grigonis: Yes, the GoPros have always been very user-friendly.
• 13:59
  Hillary Grigonis: Like anyone could use a GoPro.
• 14:01
  Hillary Grigonis: You just mount it and you press record and you let it go.
• 14:04
  Hillary Grigonis: Um the Mission One Pro ILS, it's uh it's a bit more advanced, it's targeted towards um your your serious filmmakers building a run and gun on a filmmaking rig and uh building like a mountable camera for car chases.
• 14:18
  Hillary Grigonis: Those that's the sort of creator that GoPro is going after with the ILS.
• 14:23
  David McClelland: All right.
• 14:24
  David McClelland: Well, uh we can read your hands-on work and and review over at Digital Camera World of the GoPro Mission One Pro ILS.
• 14:34
  David McClelland: Uh, but I think we should also mention while we're here the other news that has been kind of an undercurrent for GoPro over the last few months uh in terms of the GoPro business itself.
• 14:45
  David McClelland: Uh that there was news of uh an injection of funding a little while ago, but then over the last couple of weeks or so, there has been a news of a of a merger, a takeover by uh by Starman.
• 15:00
  David McClelland: Great name, not a brand that many people will be familiar with.
• 15:03
  David McClelland: What can you tell us about what's been happening from GoFro GoPro from a business point of view?
• 15:09
  Hillary Grigonis: Sure.
• 15:09
  Hillary Grigonis: So GoPro, they've been posting annual losses since 2023.
• 15:13
  Hillary Grigonis: Um last year, um, the CEO declined his own salary.
• 15:17
  Hillary Grigonis: They've had multiple rounds of layoffs.
• 15:19
  Hillary Grigonis: Um the company has really been struggling.
• 15:22
  Hillary Grigonis: Um and so earlier this summer, I believe it was in June, they filed going concern paperwork uh with the Securities and Exchange Commission that said that the company could be required to significantly reduce, restructure, cease operations, or seek protections under federal bankruptcy laws if nothing changed.
• 15:38
  Hillary Grigonis: But now we have uh something uh major that has changed.
• 15:42
  Hillary Grigonis: So Starman Optical, um, they are a US, US-based um optical phototonics company.
• 15:48
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, and they have entered into a an agreement to uh purchase and uh merge with GoPro.
• 15:55
  David McClelland: Not an obvious business partner, some would say.
• 15:59
  David McClelland: I mean, yes, there's kind of optics somewhere in there with Starman Optics, but that's m maybe not who many would have plucked out of the air if you were to look for a potential suitor or or business partner for GoPro, is it?
• 16:15
  Hillary Grigonis: Not at all.
• 16:16
  Hillary Grigonis: Like that is not um a move that I personally um saw coming.
• 16:20
  Hillary Grigonis: Um Starman, they're known for building like high-speed transceivers for AI data centers.
• 16:26
  Hillary Grigonis: Um and so when the news of this broke, there was a lot of concern about, you know, what's gonna happen to GoPro and what's going to happen um to their action cameras.
• 16:35
  Hillary Grigonis: And then uh the CEO, Nick Woodman, he released a statement.
• 16:38
  Hillary Grigonis: He's like and he said, you know, cameras, they're part of our DNA and they're never gonna change.
• 16:42
  Hillary Grigonis: Um but what this is going to do is going to give GoPro the financial resources to move in addition to action cameras outside the consumer market into commercial and defense markets.
• 16:55
  David McClelland: Oh, that's really interesting.
• 16:57
  David McClelland: Really, really interesting.
• 16:59
  David McClelland: Uh well, I guess it's a kind of watch this space.
• 17:03
  David McClelland: Um, lots of opportunity there given the scale of the investment that that Starman have made, what one would imagine.
• 17:09
  David McClelland: Uh and I mean as long as GoPro on our side of things is releasing interesting cameras like the Mission 1 Pro ILS, uh, we'll see what a Mission 2 Pro looks like maybe next year.
• 17:22
  David McClelland: Then that then then it's all good.
• 17:24
  David McClelland: And you know, from a from a personal point of view, GoPro have been great for a good number of years uh and introduce new things to market.
• 17:31
  David McClelland: So I'm pleased that they're going to be able to crack on for a bit longer yet.
• 17:36
  David McClelland: Um Hillary, before before we wrap up today, there's one other story that I just want to uh run past you.
• 17:43
  David McClelland: And it is uh well it's it's another cam rower that has been around for a little while, but this time it's got some some new clothing, and it's the OM system this time, the OM System pen, which uh broke cover only a day or two ago.
• 18:00
  David McClelland: Tell us a bit about about this, uh, because I know that a lot of people have been very excited for the the prospect of the pen's return, and now it's finally here.
• 18:09
  Hillary Grigonis: Absolutely.
• 18:09
  Hillary Grigonis: There's been a lot of people asking for OM system to update the pen, and they finally went in um and they did it.
• 18:17
  Hillary Grigonis: And I just uh got mine in the mail the other day, and I have only taken it out of the box.
• 18:24
  Hillary Grigonis: I haven't shot any photos with it.
• 18:26
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, but you know, it's a it's a really gorgeous camera.
• 18:30
  Hillary Grigonis: Um so the the what's new on the pen isn't really the technology.
• 18:36
  Hillary Grigonis: It's got the same 20.4 megapixel sensor and the TruePix 9 processor as the OM5 Mark II.
• 18:43
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, so what's new is the design.
• 18:45
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, so like the earlier pen cameras, this is very much still a retro design.
• 18:50
  Hillary Grigonis: The viewfinder is placed off to the side in that range finder style.
• 18:54
  Hillary Grigonis: Um but it's also got a mix of like retro and simple to use controls.
• 18:59
  Hillary Grigonis: Um so you have like a classic mode dial um at the top, um, and you do still have a toggle at the front to switch into different color in black and white um in different preset modes.
• 19:12
  David McClelland: It's really light, less than 400 grams.
• 19:16
  David McClelland: Uh something that I know the even though it's not a video machine, it can still do 4K.
• 19:23
  David McClelland: Uh it's got vertical video as well.
• 19:26
  David McClelland: Um, it's got inbuilt image stabilization, five and a half stops, I think, which is absolutely absolutely useful.
• 19:34
  David McClelland: Uh, and also weather sealing.
• 19:36
  David McClelland: Yeah, we're just talking about weather sealing or or lack of with the GoPro Mission One Pro ILS.
• 19:42
  David McClelland: But the this does have weather sealing as well, doesn't it?
• 19:45
  Hillary Grigonis: Yes, it has a IPX1 rating, which is not quite as robust as um OM systems um flagships and their more expensive um options, but it does um mean that it's gonna w withstand some rain, which is really important because OM system their toting depend as an everyday carry camera.
• 20:03
  Hillary Grigonis: So this is gonna be something that you're gonna want to take with you everywhere because it is so small.
• 20:08
  Hillary Grigonis: Um, and it's really hard to take a camera everywhere if you can't take it in the rain.
• 20:13
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 20:14
  David McClelland: And in terms of everyday the prices really, really everyday as well.
• 20:19
  David McClelland: Uh the body-only price, UK money, is £849.
• 20:25
  David McClelland: I think it's £999 in the US, but £849's not a bad price at all.
• 20:31
  David McClelland: And I know that uh it's received the Editor's Choice Award from James Arteas over there at Digital Camera World.
• 20:39
  David McClelland: He's been very, very impressed.
• 20:40
  David McClelland: I think four and a half stars thereabouts out of five.
• 20:43
  David McClelland: Uh, if you want to find out more information about that, then head on over to Digital Camera World because you'll see his review there and hopefully, hopefully, Hilary, some of your hands-on experiences with it as well.
• 20:55
  David McClelland: Now that you've got an OM System pen on your desk in the next few days.
• 20:59
  David McClelland: Very excited for you.
• 21:01
  David McClelland: Uh listen, Hilary, it's been great to chat with you this month.
• 21:05
  David McClelland: Thank you for coming on the show and uh sharing your uh views so far on the GoPro Mission One Pro ILS and on the OM System pen.
• 21:13
  David McClelland: Hope to have you back on the show again in the future.
• 21:16
  David McClelland: But for now, if if anyone wants to find out more about you or read more of your work, tell us where the best place for them to go is.
• 21:24
  Hillary Grigonis: DigitalCameraWorld.com.
• 21:25
  David McClelland: There we go, correct answer.
• 21:27
  David McClelland: Brilliant stuff.
• 21:27
  David McClelland: Hillary, thanks again.
• 21:29
  David McClelland: Speak to you again soon.
• 21:30
  Hillary Grigonis: Thank you.
• 21:34
  David McClelland: Our feature guest today is Drew Forsyth, a Manchester-based portrait photographer with a rich body of work across commercial and advertising, arts and culture, and a penchant for pursuing high performance.
• 21:48
  Drew Forsyth: I would describe my work primarily as working in the portrait space.
• 21:52
  Drew Forsyth: So really I'm a portrait photographer, but within that, I'm shooting commercial advertising, it's that kind of thing.
• 21:58
  Drew Forsyth: But really, when it comes to The work that I love to create, I'm really looking for what I would describe as a wow moment when you look at it and you go, Wow.
• 22:09
  Drew Forsyth: Do you know what I mean?
• 22:11
  Drew Forsyth: And that and that wow can come from anywhere, really.
• 22:13
  Drew Forsyth: It can come from uh how did you get that location?
• 22:16
  Drew Forsyth: Or oh my god, are you uh are you really with that person?
• 22:19
  Drew Forsyth: Or how did you get up in that helicopter?
• 22:22
  Drew Forsyth: Like it can that's really that's the thing I'm looking for.
• 22:26
  Drew Forsyth: I you know, I really like making cinematic work and it's quite theatrical and uh yeah, it's that kind of thing.
• 22:34
  David McClelland: Okay, so portraits primarily, whether that's for personal projects or commercial work.
• 22:39
  David McClelland: So portraits people predominantly, although, as you allude to there, there's some interesting, cinematic, thematic, dynamic contexts in which you find those people.
• 22:53
  David McClelland: And I've seen some of your work on location in New York, for example, with famous bridges behind you, or in studio as well, where you've got I th I think dancers contorted into these into these boxes.
• 23:07
  David McClelland: What is it about the the people, what is it about portrait work that particularly excites you?
• 23:14
  Drew Forsyth: I think I'm really interested in expertise.
• 23:18
  Drew Forsyth: Like I really love people who have dedicated their entire lives to their craft, so be it ballet or uh even you know, science or mathematicians or Nobel Prize winners, or people who are very, very good at what they do.
• 23:33
  Drew Forsyth: That's what I'm really interested in.
• 23:34
  Drew Forsyth: And people, especially people who've sacrificed something or they've had to give up everything else within their lives in order to pursue greatness, and you see that a lot with uh with footballers and athletes in particular.
• 23:46
  Drew Forsyth: That they there is only that.
• 23:48
  Drew Forsyth: Do you know what I mean?
• 23:49
  Drew Forsyth: You can't really talk to them about anything else when you're on set.
• 23:52
  Drew Forsyth: Um, so yeah, that's what I'm really drawn to.
• 23:55
  Drew Forsyth: Um, and yeah, it's through that I've been very lucky to work with some amazing people, but yeah, dance obviously lends itself to that, but I wouldn't necessarily describe myself as a dance photographer.
• 24:05
  Drew Forsyth: Like I'm really interested, I'm just interested in that their kind of strength and prowess and grace and and that, and yeah, and like giving up everything else to pursue it, often for a very short amount of time.
• 24:18
  David McClelland: Yeah, uh, and and there is a strong lean, and it's something I I definitely want to talk to with your work to uh performance and performing arts.
• 24:27
  David McClelland: But coming onto that, onto that performance and and high performance and what it takes to be a high performer, um, we'll talk about some of your commercial work in a few minutes' time, but onto your onto your personal projects, there is one of your projects called Performer.
• 24:44
  David McClelland: And you've taken, and it's not just about performing arts, you've got uh a rally driver there, um, a principal ballerina, and a world-leading hip surgeon.
• 24:53
  David McClelland: And I want to come on to Max in a moment.
• 24:56
  David McClelland: Um, but you are working with people who are so focused, so much at at the top of their game there.
• 25:03
  David McClelland: Uh, and it seems to be a kind of before and after.
• 25:06
  David McClelland: How did that project come about?
• 25:08
  David McClelland: And uh I mean it's incredible the kind of access that you get.
• 25:12
  David McClelland: How have you been able to curate whose lives, whose expertise, whose performance you are following?
• 25:19
  Drew Forsyth: So that project really came about where I was already working with Bethany, the ballerina, on a different project, and she said that she was going to be performing in Manchester, and would I like to come along?
• 25:29
  Drew Forsyth: Nice.
• 25:30
  Drew Forsyth: And uh, as I was photographing her, she said, you know, uh they don't really ever let anyone else do this.
• 25:37
  Drew Forsyth: And I thought, oh, I like that, that's a nice feeling, that kind of exclusivity.
• 25:42
  Drew Forsyth: And then I as I was shooting, I thought, if if they're not letting many people do this, if I didn't have this access, what would I want to see?
• 25:51
  Drew Forsyth: And so I started photographing not just her, but the ballet shoes on the table and her at the side of the stage and looking out into the auditorium, all these little moments, and it's also wrapped up in uh giving her something.
• 26:03
  Drew Forsyth: So, you know, often if there's no one there, there is no record of these moments for her.
• 26:08
  Drew Forsyth: So it kind of started with that, and then I thought, you know, if a little girl sits in the front or front row of the auditorium, she might see this performance and it might change the entire course of her life.
• 26:22
  Drew Forsyth: I wonder if there are other things and other professions that are like that.
• 26:27
  Drew Forsyth: And so I asked around, I asked friends, and I was chatting in the pub with people, and they said, Oh, you know, you should get in touch with this person.
• 26:34
  Drew Forsyth: He's a GT3 rally driver.
• 26:36
  Drew Forsyth: And you think, okay, there's an there's so much preparation that goes into that, and then you are performing at a very high level for an hour and a half, two hours, just like the ballerina.
• 26:44
  Drew Forsyth: I thought, oh wow, this is great.
• 26:46
  Drew Forsyth: And then, you know, once you've got two, then you need you need more, right?
• 26:51
  Drew Forsyth: So then I decided what who else performs at a very high level and their actions affect someone's life directly.
• 26:58
  Drew Forsyth: And then obviously replacement or a hip surgeon would be interesting.
• 27:04
  Drew Forsyth: And then it is as well, it's driven by me going, Oh, I wonder, I wonder what that's like.
• 27:08
  Drew Forsyth: I bet that would be interesting.
• 27:10
  David McClelland: No, so I mean, I I'm looking at that portfolio portfolio work on your website at the moment, and I like how you have displayed that we've got the kind of verticals of Kelvin, isn't it?
• 27:24
  David McClelland: Kelvin Fletcher, who's the uh GT3 racing driver, the ballerina, and then Professor Max Feely on the right hand side.
• 27:33
  David McClelland: And you speak about the curiosity that that you had, which in a way kind of drew you into working with these people.
• 27:40
  David McClelland: As you scroll down this page, you've got the before, you've got the preparation.
• 27:45
  David McClelland: Then there is this little kind of beat on the page of something, the during, if you like, and there's a gap there.
• 27:54
  David McClelland: And then the final six images are the after.
• 27:58
  David McClelland: And really that obviously it completes the story, but you see everything that's gone into a performance, however you define performance, but then you see the I'm guessing exhaustion.
• 28:11
  David McClelland: Uh I'm guessing the impact of that performance.
• 28:15
  David McClelland: And in the case of uh Professor Max Feely, the uh hip surgeon, uh um you're seeing a bit of blood uh spattered over his face as well.
• 28:25
  David McClelland: Um just just talk to me about that after moment.
• 28:30
  David McClelland: The the preparation, the anticipation, I can kind of feel that maybe not wanting to get too involved, you're being very much fly on the wall here.
• 28:37
  David McClelland: But for the after, you've got two at least two of your performers looking straight down the barrel at you and kind of sharing their inner state and their reflections after their performance.
• 28:48
  David McClelland: How is that?
• 28:50
  Drew Forsyth: I mean, first of all, I mean it's such a privilege to be in these spaces with these people.
• 28:55
  Drew Forsyth: And yeah, I deliberately didn't want to show the thing that they do because you know, you know what they do.
• 29:03
  Drew Forsyth: You this these professions are so familiar to us that we we all you know that, but when they step off stage, and I I mean that in a kind of general sense, yeah, even though literally Bethany is stepping off stage.
• 29:15
  David McClelland: And Max was in a theatre for his work as well, you could argue.
• 29:19
  Drew Forsyth: In the theatre, that's right.
• 29:20
  Drew Forsyth: Um so I just wanted to I wanted to see them.
• 29:28
  Drew Forsyth: Do you know what I mean?
• 29:30
  Drew Forsyth: I think once they step off stage, there is like a moment where they're readjusting back to reality, and if and I tried to catch them before that happens and before they, you know, maybe put the walls back up or put the mask back on or become more kind kind of quote unquote professional.
• 29:46
  Drew Forsyth: I wanted to see I wanted to see that kind of vulnerability and and that kind of you know emotional intimacy.
• 29:53
  Drew Forsyth: Because it, I mean, it is so draining.
• 29:55
  Drew Forsyth: This is the thing that they have dedicated their whole lives to, and it takes it out of them.
• 29:59
  Drew Forsyth: It's a physical act, and so I think I really wanted to see some of that.
• 30:05
  David McClelland: So reflecting that back on on your work, and I'll I'll continue with with some more of your of your projects in a moment, but on your approach to work, you you've said how you're quite how you were very drawn to these professionals who are so focused uh at that point of doing what they do.
• 30:21
  David McClelland: Is that is there something inside you that that looks up to that, that that relates that?
• 30:26
  David McClelland: Would you describe Drew as a high performer?
• 30:30
  David McClelland: Or uh is it something that you're searching from from these high performers?
• 30:35
  Drew Forsyth: It's something I definitely strive for.
• 30:37
  Drew Forsyth: And I do I do push myself really hard, and I do try to work as hard as I can.
• 30:44
  Drew Forsyth: And in order to achieve all the things that I want to achieve, I would, you know, ask any one of my ex-partners if they would describe me as ambitious or ruthless.
• 30:56
  Drew Forsyth: But um, yeah, I think there is definitely something that I'm searching for in me that's reflected back in the images, and I think, you know, all the is and especially you know something that I'm really attracted to, not just in my work but in my personal life, is that strength and that kind of I don't know, this the the that power.
• 31:16
  Drew Forsyth: There's something that's very attractive about that, and it just so happens that I can translate it into my into my work.
• 31:23
  Drew Forsyth: But yeah, I I don't know.
• 31:24
  Drew Forsyth: I I think there's something very mesmerizing about about these people who uh who really are just so good at at what they do.
• 31:33
  Drew Forsyth: I don't know.
• 31:34
  Drew Forsyth: It's amazing.
• 31:36
  David McClelland: Sometimes you don't need to know there's there's a feeling, even if it's difficult to put your finger on it, you know, that some magic or whatever it is is that is happening.
• 31:45
  David McClelland: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:46
  David McClelland: Uh what's your background, Drew?
• 31:48
  David McClelland: How did you come into the photography space?
• 31:52
  Drew Forsyth: So photography was just a hobby for me for years.
• 31:55
  Drew Forsyth: You know, I I uh when I was a when I was a teenager, I started uh, you know, my first serious girlfriend was very very into photography, and and you know, as part of the the wooing process, she said, Are you into photography?
• 32:09
  Drew Forsyth: And I just said uh, oh yeah, of course.
• 32:11
  Drew Forsyth: Oh yeah.
• 32:11
  Drew Forsyth: Having never having never yeah, oh a hundred percent, oh definitely, yeah.
• 32:16
  Drew Forsyth: And so, you know, that day I went out and bought a camera.
• 32:19
  Drew Forsyth: And um and that was it, really.
• 32:22
  Drew Forsyth: That was when I was about gosh, I must have been 17, 18.
• 32:25
  Drew Forsyth: And yeah, as I say, it was a hobby for years.
• 32:27
  Drew Forsyth: I don't really have any formal training in it, it just grew and grew, and over time you photograph your friends and then friends of friends, and then before you know it, people are messaging you and saying, Hi, how much do you charge?
• 32:40
  Drew Forsyth: and there's no connection.
• 32:41
  Drew Forsyth: And that was like the first moment where I thought, oh gosh, I this I might be onto something here when there were kind of no mutual people.
• 32:50
  Drew Forsyth: Do you know what I mean?
• 32:51
  David McClelland: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:52
  David McClelland: So uh uh and uh at what point did you I mean you mentioned portraits uh and finding the wow moment?
• 32:59
  David McClelland: At what point did you start to see that path really crystallize?
• 33:04
  David McClelland: This is what I'm gonna have a go at doing, and yeah, uh, and this is gonna be my focus for it.
• 33:10
  David McClelland: Did that kind of did that crystallize fairly early on for you what it is that you wanted to do, and you've been following that bone ever since, or is it kind of morphed over the 10, 15 or so years that you've been doing this?
• 33:23
  Drew Forsyth: I think there was a crystallizing moment, which was my first photo shoot with a dancer, with a ballerina.
• 33:29
  Drew Forsyth: And up until that point, I'd been just photographing anything and everything, people, interiors, jewellery, you know, everything.
• 33:38
  Drew Forsyth: And then I did this photo shoot with this lady called Rachel, and she was amazing, ballerina.
• 33:43
  Drew Forsyth: And I just and it was at that point where I thought, oh my god, there's something in this.
• 33:48
  Drew Forsyth: Like I think it's this, like there's a physical feeling that I felt where I was like, Whoa, this is I've not experienced anything like this before.
• 33:55
  Drew Forsyth: And then over time I started to shoot more and more dance, but then there wasn't it like like I said earlier, I wouldn't really categorize myself as a dance photographer, and for a while I was really that was tussling with that because I was like, God, I'm I love shooting dancers, but I'm not that into watching dance.
• 34:11
  Drew Forsyth: Like, what is it?
• 34:13
  Drew Forsyth: And it was only really during the the pandemic that I kind of properly sat down and thought, right, what what is going on here?
• 34:21
  Drew Forsyth: Analysed it and and realized, okay, wow, what I'm really interested in is is strength, is power, is you know, uh prestige, is all of these things, and then that realization really helped channel and shape my entire career going forward from that.
• 34:39
  David McClelland: Okay, okay.
• 34:40
  David McClelland: Going back in a way, not only to the performance, but also to the to the theatre, and you know, you've described the kind of theatricality, the the wow of your work.
• 34:52
  David McClelland: There's another one of the personal projects that I was drawn to, which is half-hour call.
• 34:56
  David McClelland: And for those in the theatre, they know that half-hour isn't 30 minutes, it's 35 minutes, but it is a very kind of privileged time.
• 35:04
  David McClelland: It is the getting ready, it is the moment before the thing happens.
• 35:10
  David McClelland: And there's a real body of work not only in the dance space and not only in, I guess, what you would traditionally call theatre, but of people who are about to go on stage and perform there.
• 35:22
  David McClelland: And I guess that's another point of the access that somehow you've you you've cultivated, you have developed, you've got your foot in the door there and been able to capture these very privileged moments.
• 35:35
  Drew Forsyth: Yeah, I mean, it is an absolute privilege being trusted back there.
• 35:40
  Drew Forsyth: That's the thing.
• 35:41
  Drew Forsyth: I mean, the access, it takes for some of the people that I've got in the project, it takes years to get to that point.
• 35:48
  Drew Forsyth: Because, you know, that time that you talk about that 35 minutes before the show goes up, is a very delicate uh time, and people approach that time in very different ways.
• 35:57
  Drew Forsyth: There are some people who are absolutely bouncing off the walls, who are, you know, really excited to get out there, and that comes across in the images, and then there's some people who you can't even really look directly at them because they're freaking out so much, and that spans across like you know, whoever you might have in your head, it's not them.
• 36:16
  Drew Forsyth: Do you know what I mean?
• 36:17
  Drew Forsyth: Like, there are some people who are very outspoken and excited when they're on stage, but backstage, they're just like they're like ghosts.
• 36:24
  Drew Forsyth: So when I'm shooting, you know, one of the things that I do try to do is I just mirror their energy so what or like reflect it back to them.
• 36:32
  Drew Forsyth: So if they're very nervous and quiet and self-reflective, I try to be very quiet and sensitive.
• 36:37
  Drew Forsyth: And if they're super excited, I try and match that energy as well.
• 36:41
  Drew Forsyth: But yeah, it it's it is that thing.
• 36:43
  Drew Forsyth: Like what when I'm pitching people to to do that and and kind of be with them, I really am talking to them about legacy, and I'm talking to them about these moments that really there is no one there for, especially for these individual performers.
• 36:57
  Drew Forsyth: Like, it's just them backstage.
• 36:59
  Drew Forsyth: You know, you know, you talk about these kind of shows that are like one man, one mic, you know what I mean?
• 37:05
  Drew Forsyth: So stand-up comedians and that kind of thing.
• 37:07
  Drew Forsyth: It's just them in that and they might be, you know, there's someone that I've I haven't put up there yet, but they were performing at co-op live here in Manchester.
• 37:16
  Drew Forsyth: You know, there's 20,000 people out there, and it's just them in one dressing room.
• 37:20
  Drew Forsyth: You know, the night before it was Drake and like his entourage.
• 37:25
  Drew Forsyth: There's like 500 people back there, dancers and you know, all this stuff.
• 37:28
  Drew Forsyth: But then with this performer, it was just this one, it was one bloke backstage, and that's yeah, but that's it.
• 37:36
  Drew Forsyth: Like, so yeah, I do say to them, like, would you like this moment to be the you know, to be kind of uh it's that Jurassic Park thing, it's like a fly in the amber, right?
• 37:45
  Drew Forsyth: Like, would you like that?
• 37:46
  Drew Forsyth: Would you like this for your grandchildren?
• 37:49
  Drew Forsyth: And then nine times out of ten they say yes.
• 37:52
  David McClelland: There is a kind of tension or or at least the opposites there about and it's interesting that you mention it, about performers, particularly those one night stand comics often, it feels like a really, really sociable job when you're in an audience with 200, 2,000, 20,000 people and everyone's having a laugh with whoever it is on stage.
• 38:16
  David McClelland: But the reality is very, very different backstage travelling around.
• 38:21
  David McClelland: Maybe you've got a tour manager if you've reached a certain level, but but that's about it.
• 38:25
  David McClelland: And the reason that I find that interesting is because I wanted to ask you about that.
• 38:30
  David McClelland: As a photographer, often we look at your work and it's very easy to think about that as being quite a sociable job because often, particularly with portraits, it's you, it it's other people.
• 38:42
  David McClelland: But the reality isn't always that way.
• 38:44
  David McClelland: I mean, how do you find managing being a uh one-man band, uh do you make a conscious outreach to connect with other photographers?
• 38:56
  David McClelland: Or is this it do you feel that loneliness at all?
• 38:59
  David McClelland: What what what's your take on what can be a solitary profession?
• 39:03
  Drew Forsyth: It can be incredibly lonely.
• 39:06
  Drew Forsyth: That's one thing I would say.
• 39:07
  Drew Forsyth: And if you're not careful and you don't cultivate relationships and you don't reach out to people, you like you can start to climb the wall.
• 39:16
  Drew Forsyth: Because it really is just you.
• 39:18
  Drew Forsyth: Like, especially with you know, some of these projects, the access kind of depends on it being just you.
• 39:25
  Drew Forsyth: So no makeup artist, no assistant, no like no one.
• 39:28
  Drew Forsyth: It is literally just you.
• 39:29
  Drew Forsyth: I mean, some of the stuff that I shot out in the States, you know, these people are very suspicious of outsiders, so it really can be just you.
• 39:35
  Drew Forsyth: And it I work really hard to make friends with, you know, my my amazing team, so makeup artists and assistants and you know, industry people.
• 39:48
  Drew Forsyth: And I try really hard because if I don't, I know that I would slowly you start that slow descent into madness.
• 39:55
  Drew Forsyth: And and you you can spiral, especially, especially if you get a bad one bad email, you can just completely spiral into insanity.
• 40:05
  Drew Forsyth: And so I try really hard to make sure that I'm surrounded by people who get it, if you like, and who kind of are either in the industry or adjacent to the industry, and you know, and and and yeah, because because otherwise I'd go I'd go mad.
• 40:23
  David McClelland: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:23
  David McClelland: And I think that's a really important point that it it sometimes does take effort to make those connections from outside.
• 40:31
  David McClelland: Super so um because sometimes it just does doesn't happen organically, and you can find yourself spiralling a great word, unfortunately, um, without necessarily realising it.
• 40:42
  David McClelland: So that little tap on the shoulder, that little email or something can be really important.
• 40:46
  David McClelland: Definitely.
• 40:48
  David McClelland: You mentioned New York there, and I think that brings me on to the next images that of yours that I want to take a look at, and it's kind of outside of the performance space in a way, at least outside of a theatre, um, and it's shot on film.
• 41:03
  David McClelland: And this is this is you with a holy grail camera, the uh Hasselblad X-Pan 2.
• 41:11
  David McClelland: So, yeah, for anyone who hasn't come across this, and I know a lot of our audience on the photography video show will have done, but for anyone who doesn't know what the X-Pan or the X Pan 2 is from Hasselblad, how do you describe it?
• 41:24
  Drew Forsyth: The X-Pan 2 is like you're right, it's the jewel in the crown of rare, kind of impossible to find expensive cameras.
• 41:34
  Drew Forsyth: So, of course, from a kind of technical, I'm sure the audience will be kind of pretty familiar with it, but from a technical perspective, it it is a panoramic 35mm camera, so it shoots two 35mm frames kind of side by side at the same time.
• 41:49
  Drew Forsyth: One of the great things about it though is that you can switch it to a r regular 35 halfway through a roll, which again makes it even more unique.
• 41:59
  Drew Forsyth: Um basically about uh what year is it?
• 42:04
  Drew Forsyth: About three years ago, I went through an absolutely catastrophic world-ending breakup, and I thought, I'm I need something to cheer me up here.
• 42:15
  Drew Forsyth: This camera has been on my list for basically as soon as I discovered photography, and I did have an opportunity to buy one in like 2012 or something like that, but I didn't I couldn't afford it, and then obviously they've gone off about a million percent since then.
• 42:30
  Drew Forsyth: So I thought, you know, after my breakup, I thought, right, I'm gonna buy this camera, and I'm gonna whenever I go traveling, I'm gonna take this camera with me.
• 42:38
  Drew Forsyth: I'm not gonna use my phone, I'm not gonna use any of the little digital cameras, I'm just gonna take the X-Pan, and it's been great.
• 42:45
  Drew Forsyth: Hmm.
• 42:46
  David McClelland: What's been great about I mean, in in terms of the images, um that it's hassle blad, of course, but what is it what's been great for you as a photographer when working with this?
• 42:57
  David McClelland: Because I'm guessing you don't work with film when you are on location in studio, typically, you're you're working digitally.
• 43:04
  David McClelland: So, what's different about working with a film camera and one that's forcing you to think in a much wider frame, perhaps?
• 43:11
  Drew Forsyth: I think the thing that it really has forced me to do, and the kind of amazing thing about it actually has been that it's made me fall back in love with photography.
• 43:20
  Drew Forsyth: You know, when I I shoot digitally and I shoot for clients, and you know, it's my job.
• 43:25
  Drew Forsyth: And I think if you're not careful, it can really start to just feel like your job.
• 43:30
  Drew Forsyth: You know what I mean?
• 43:31
  Drew Forsyth: So when I bought the camera, I thought, oh, I'm gonna start shooting on film, which is something I'd never really done before.
• 43:36
  Drew Forsyth: And so that was a whole new discovery.
• 43:37
  Drew Forsyth: I thought, oh wow, this is amazing.
• 43:39
  Drew Forsyth: And then forcing yourself to work with an aspect ratio that is just wildly impractical is has been amazing.
• 43:48
  Drew Forsyth: And suddenly, like all it it really kind of resets your photography brain because you have to think, oh my goodness, how on earth am I gonna fit all of this in that tiny little letterbox?
• 43:59
  Drew Forsyth: And then And do I want to do that?
• 44:01
  Drew Forsyth: And yeah, yeah.
• 44:01
  Drew Forsyth: And that's just been absolutely eye-opening.
• 44:05
  Drew Forsyth: Like it I rediscovering my love of photography through that camera has just has been such a gift.
• 44:12
  Drew Forsyth: And it was worth it was worth all that money.
• 44:15
  David McClelland: Have you done any vertical panoramas with it as well?
• 44:20
  Drew Forsyth: You know what?
• 44:20
  Drew Forsyth: I just got back from a long weekend in Paris, and the I the Eiffel Tower, I think, really lends itself to the vertical uh so I shot a bit of that.
• 44:31
  Drew Forsyth: And I had you know what I have bits and pieces, bits and pieces.
• 44:34
  Drew Forsyth: I have.
• 44:35
  Drew Forsyth: And when I was in New York, when I was in the I was in a dance studio photographing one of the dancers, I shot a fair few kind of of those vertical things.
• 44:43
  Drew Forsyth: In fact, I mean I said to the guy, I was renting some gear over there, and one one of the guys in the rental house was like, So what are you shooting with your hassle plaid?
• 44:51
  Drew Forsyth: And I said, I'm shooting some uh contemporary ballet.
• 44:54
  Drew Forsyth: And he said, What?
• 44:56
  Drew Forsyth: Okay, what do you what do you mean?
• 44:58
  Drew Forsyth: Like so, yeah, having again, and yeah, like it forcing you to think differently has just been it's so magical.
• 45:06
  Drew Forsyth: And also when you're out in the when you're out and about, people do stop you, which is nice.
• 45:11
  Drew Forsyth: You're like a little kind of photography celebrity.
• 45:14
  Drew Forsyth: People go, Oh my god, is that an X-Pan?
• 45:16
  Drew Forsyth: And I go, That's this is an X-Pan too.
• 45:18
  Drew Forsyth: And they go, Oh, I know.
• 45:21
  David McClelland: It's a certain type of person that would be stopping you and asking that question.
• 45:25
  David McClelland: But if they're asking you that question, then you know that probably you'll be good to have a good conversation with them, let's face it.
• 45:31
  Drew Forsyth: Yes, that's true.
• 45:32
  Drew Forsyth: You do meet interesting people that way, that's for sure.
• 45:36
  David McClelland: Let's switch back into some of the work that pays the bills, the the the commercial work that you do, uh, and maybe maybe some of the more recent work as well.
• 45:44
  David McClelland: And I know that uh with uh BBC and uh Expectation North.
• 45:50
  David McClelland: Um in fact I had iPlayer on only earlier today, and I saw Emergency 24-7 on the uh BBC iPlayer screen there with some key art provided by you.
• 46:01
  David McClelland: How how how's that stuff coming about?
• 46:03
  David McClelland: Because that feels in a way similar, but in a way quite different maybe to the personal projects.
• 46:08
  David McClelland: And I know that personal projects kind of complement or or balance the commercial work, but how's the how's the BBC stuff uh and the other key art stuff that you're doing commercially coming around and how are you enjoying it?
• 46:20
  Drew Forsyth: Well, first of all, I love it because it is it's different, it's really different to kind of my normal campaign stuff.
• 46:26
  Drew Forsyth: Like it, I don't, you know what?
• 46:28
  Drew Forsyth: It's one of those things where like I just had a random email one day from a production company that I'd never heard of saying, Hi, can you come and take some onset stills for this TV show that we're filming?
• 46:38
  Drew Forsyth: And I said, sure.
• 46:39
  Drew Forsyth: And I got I got there and took the photos, and uh, you know, you get chatting to the what turned out to be the executive producer.
• 46:46
  Drew Forsyth: I'm I had no idea, just seemed like a nice bloke called Colin.
• 46:48
  Drew Forsyth: Uh, and you know, you get chatting, and then he he says, uh, oh, we're doing the poster next week.
• 46:54
  Drew Forsyth: Why don't you come and shoot that?
• 46:55
  Drew Forsyth: And you go, Okay, great.
• 46:57
  Drew Forsyth: Oh wow.
• 46:57
  Drew Forsyth: And so that was the first thing that I shot for them, which was a few years ago now, um, which was called Boot Dreams.
• 47:03
  David McClelland: And um, yeah, Millie Bright was that was that one of the shoots with Millie Bright, uh England former lioness uh captain, I think she was fantastic.
• 47:14
  Drew Forsyth: Yes, that's right.
• 47:14
  Drew Forsyth: Yeah, photographed her and Anton Ferdinand and uh Roman Kemp and all these people, and it was it was fab.
• 47:22
  Drew Forsyth: But then the yeah, obviously they're a massive production company, so they say, Can you come and do first murder 24-7 key art for that, and then emergency 24-7?
• 47:31
  Drew Forsyth: And it, I mean, for me, it just plays into that thing that I mean it's the access.
• 47:36
  Drew Forsyth: That's what I love.
• 47:37
  Drew Forsyth: It's one of the things that runs through my work, is is that access?
• 47:40
  Drew Forsyth: So photographing surgeons, photographing, you know, footballers at the height of their career.
• 47:44
  Drew Forsyth: Talk, you know, when I photographed Millie, she had been, I think it was the previous weekend she'd been down to London to collect her, you know, MBE, or you know, they've been on that tour.
• 47:56
  Drew Forsyth: And I said to her, like, you know, how do you remember everything that's happening to you right now?
• 48:02
  Drew Forsyth: And she was like, I just take a lot of photos.
• 48:04
  Drew Forsyth: And I was like, Yeah, yeah.
• 48:07
  Drew Forsyth: So yeah.
• 48:08
  Drew Forsyth: So I mean, yeah, and it's through through the television work I've I've been very fortunate to meet all these really interesting people, but yeah, it doesn't really matter for me, it doesn't matter what they do, as long as they're really good at it.
• 48:18
  Drew Forsyth: So, like with the surgeons, so I was for the for the key art on the emergency 24-7 key art, you'll see there's a there's a surgeon there, and he's got these kind of special glasses, and I said, and he was a hand surgeon, and I said to him, Okay, and I love doing this.
• 48:35
  Drew Forsyth: I just say I ask all the questions that I w wonder about, and I said, Okay, if you had to lose a finger, which finger would you want to lose?
• 48:44
  Drew Forsyth: Because he's a hand surgeon, so he must know.
• 48:46
  Drew Forsyth: And he said to me, It's the finger that you would least expect that I would not want to lose.
• 48:51
  Drew Forsyth: So, like, it's your he said, I would want to keep I can I you've got to keep your pinky because about you know, and your 80% of your grip strength comes from your pinky.
• 49:03
  David McClelland: Really?
• 49:03
  Drew Forsyth: He said, If you if you have if you have to lose a finger, it's your pointing finger.
• 49:07
  Drew Forsyth: You lose that one first because your next one kind of switches over in in your mind really quickly.
• 49:13
  Drew Forsyth: So this is why I love working with these people because I get to ask them all these questions, you know.
• 49:18
  Drew Forsyth: If I lose a finger, how long do I have left?
• 49:21
  Drew Forsyth: Are you asking these questions in the middle of the shoot, or is it is this all at the preparation?
• 49:25
  Drew Forsyth: No, no, no.
• 49:26
  Drew Forsyth: I'm asking them when they're in front of me, I'm asking them because one, I might not get the opportunity to meet them again.
• 49:32
  Drew Forsyth: But secondly, like I the the kind of the more serious like reason that I'm actually asking them that is because I'm you know, stepping into a photography like into the studio can be quite an intimidating thing, even for people who are very, very uh you know, very, very experienced.
• 49:50
  Drew Forsyth: So I I really want to get them talking about what they know about and what their area of expertise is.
• 49:56
  Drew Forsyth: And so if I can ask them something that they either haven't been asked before or is like a fun sideways kind of question, but is still within their area of expertise, then it really can relax them.
• 50:07
  Drew Forsyth: And suddenly they're not thinking about all the lights and the assistant and the makeup artists and the onset masseuse, they're not thinking about any of that, they're thinking about their job, you know what I mean?
• 50:16
  Drew Forsyth: So yeah, it does have there is like a kind of secret little motivation to ask more questions like that.
• 50:22
  David McClelland: Of course, yes.
• 50:23
  David McClelland: I I like to find common ground where I can with somebody, and you know, that can create uh a dialogue, a conversation, like like as you say, it just enables all of the lights and whatever else is going on just to disappear for a few moments, but also I think creates potentially a connection between you and them that wouldn't be there otherwise.
• 50:43
  David McClelland: Um 100%.
• 50:44
  David McClelland: And then there's there's a piece of work that I I've seen you worked on.
• 50:50
  David McClelland: I I'd love to hear about it, where you were literally conducting the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra.
• 50:55
  David McClelland: Uh and I I don't know if you had a bat on or not in order to do that, but you had what dozens and dozens of professional musicians in a massive sound stage, massive studio, and trying to take what looked like a really, really ambitious portrait, I guess, of the ensemble.
• 51:15
  David McClelland: Tell us a bit more about that one, how that one came about, and what the challenge was on the day to try and orchestrate it.
• 51:23
  Drew Forsyth: Very good.
• 51:23
  Drew Forsyth: So I have this ongoing project called Principle, where I photographed principal ballerinas and ballet dancers, you know, around the world.
• 51:32
  Drew Forsyth: And in 2022, I photographed a dancer called Nancy, and she's the principal dancer with uh the Dutch national ballet.
• 51:41
  Drew Forsyth: Okay.
• 51:42
  Drew Forsyth: And we photographed her here in Manchester, and it was in an abandoned warehouse because she is originally from Manchester.
• 51:48
  Drew Forsyth: So I photographed her here.
• 51:50
  Drew Forsyth: I was in a big abandoned warehouse with uh you know dust everywhere, and it was amazing.
• 51:55
  Drew Forsyth: Anyway, about a year later, I had a random email from the head of production at the BBC Phil, and she said, We loved your pictures of Nancy in the warehouse.
• 52:03
  Drew Forsyth: Can you come and photograph the orchestra?
• 52:06
  Drew Forsyth: And I said, Uh, is this a scam?
• 52:09
  Drew Forsyth: Is this a a joke?
• 52:13
  Drew Forsyth: And uh we went for coffee and it was real.
• 52:15
  Drew Forsyth: And basically, she came to me, she kind of came to me with a bit of a problem, and she said, Look, every picture of an orchestra that you see looks exactly the same, and that's them in a in a kind of half semicircle, they're all dressed in black and white in their tuxes, and uh you can't tell which orchestra is which.
• 52:36
  Drew Forsyth: Can you come and do something interesting with us?
• 52:39
  Drew Forsyth: And I said, I would love to.
• 52:41
  Drew Forsyth: And so it started from there.
• 52:45
  Drew Forsyth: I always start with these big projects, I always start with the creative first, and then I do the production because I always think I can have a I can tone down a mad creative idea, yeah, but I can't like pump up a boring production one.
• 52:59
  Drew Forsyth: So I said to them, as part of the prep, I said, Can I come and watch them rehearse?
• 53:04
  Drew Forsyth: And she said yes.
• 53:05
  Drew Forsyth: And I went in, and as she as um the producer opened the door, the sound of the orchestra just hit me like a huge wave, and it was amazing, it was a fully physical uh feeling, and then from that point on I thought, Well, wouldn't it be great to represent these musicians as a wave?
• 53:25
  David McClelland: You know what I mean?
• 53:26
  Drew Forsyth: On you know, in the in the final image.
• 53:28
  Drew Forsyth: And I pitched the idea to uh to the BBC and they said yes, and I thought, oh no.
• 53:35
  Drew Forsyth: How am I gonna do this?
• 53:38
  David McClelland: How do I do that?
• 53:40
  Drew Forsyth: And and I said, uh, oh, um, and and then before I could say I don't know how to do it I'm sorry, but I don't know how to do that.
• 53:47
  Drew Forsyth: Um that they said, well, we obviously work with staging companies all around the world to to you know put stages in unconventional spaces.
• 53:54
  Drew Forsyth: We can sort that out for you.
• 53:56
  Drew Forsyth: And I was like, great.
• 53:58
  Drew Forsyth: So then we had a we had a stage uh built and it was uh yeah, around 80 musicians, and yeah, it took so on the afternoon we were in there all morning kind of setting everything and making sure that everything was kind of ready to go.
• 54:12
  Drew Forsyth: Then when the orchestra came in, it's just like it's like a school football team, you know, you're picking them one or two at a time, and they're all grumbling, and but you know, you're doing it.
• 54:23
  Drew Forsyth: It took about 45 minutes to an hour to place everyone on the stage.
• 54:28
  Drew Forsyth: Okay.
• 54:29
  David McClelland: Um, and then and you knew where each of these people, the the these groups of people would be going.
• 54:35
  David McClelland: You'd already plotted that.
• 54:37
  Drew Forsyth: Yes, so I had um as part of the preparation, um, I came across a photographer called Art Striber, who I'd highly recommend your audience, and well, maybe your audience would be familiar with his work, but he'd done a portrait of uh for the Paramount Studios 100-year anniversary, uh, he'd taken a portrait of all of these actors on stage, and I thought, wow, I should, I should, you know, I'd love to do something like that.
• 54:58
  Drew Forsyth: And part of his prep was, you know, you have the map, which was which in my case was an iPad with 82 red dots on it from a top-down view and then a front arm view, so I could figure it out.
• 55:11
  Drew Forsyth: And really, once you if you take a long time to look at that photo, really it's not like one group, it's there's a group of five over here, there's three over here, there's four here, there's seven across there, and they're all these little clumps, and they all interact with each other to create this huge uh to kind of break up the the image.
• 55:29
  Drew Forsyth: So yeah, like when it when it came time to take the photo, it we took it in just in one, you know, with six lights either, sorry, three look three huge lights either side.
• 55:38
  David McClelland: He must have been big lights to light all of those uh 80 or so people, goodness me.
• 55:43
  Drew Forsyth: Oh my god, yeah.
• 55:44
  Drew Forsyth: So that we had we had six Pro Photo D2s, I think.
• 55:48
  Drew Forsyth: So they're a thousand watt heads, you know, pretty much at full power.
• 55:51
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 55:52
  Drew Forsyth: Bang.
• 55:53
  Drew Forsyth: Um, so I was up the ladder and I had the uh the the loud haler, and you know, you are saying to them, I you know, it's hard holding the attention of the of of everyone for that period of time is really, really hard.
• 56:09
  Drew Forsyth: So I did say to them, I took one and then I looked at the laptop and I just said, Okay, everyone, let's take one that we can actually use.
• 56:17
  Drew Forsyth: And then they all kind of and some of them laughed and some of them didn't, and some of them whatever, and then we took that one and then they all kind of relaxed a little bit.
• 56:28
  Drew Forsyth: Um so we shot all that and it was great, and the client's really happy.
• 56:31
  Drew Forsyth: And then I said, Okay, I want to I think it's good, but I think we can make it better, but it is a bit of a risk.
• 56:38
  Drew Forsyth: And the client that they, you know, BBC, they were already the whole team were there, they were really happy with the images we shot so far.
• 56:45
  Drew Forsyth: So I said, Okay, let me just try this, and if it doesn't work, we can just throw away.
• 56:48
  Drew Forsyth: And what I did, I'd seen um, I think Annie Liebewitz do a similar thing where she had like a an assistant with the light on a stick and then gone through this group photo and lit part parts of it kind of individually.
• 57:03
  David McClelland: Oh, right.
• 57:03
  Drew Forsyth: Yeah, and then stitched it all together in Photoshop after the fact.
• 57:06
  Drew Forsyth: And I'd never done that before, I'd only seen it on a YouTube video.
• 57:10
  Drew Forsyth: And I thought oh, we can uh we'll give this a go.
• 57:13
  Drew Forsyth: How hard can't we?
• 57:15
  Drew Forsyth: There's no taxis outside yet, we've got a little bit of time.
• 57:18
  Drew Forsyth: Exactly.
• 57:19
  Drew Forsyth: So we did that and it ended up being about 15, 20 images, and then stitched it all together in Photoshop, and then that was it.
• 57:26
  Drew Forsyth: That was the one they ended up using, and the light was the one softer.
• 57:29
  Drew Forsyth: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:30
  Drew Forsyth: And we it was just because it was just a risk.
• 57:32
  Drew Forsyth: Because we'd been so efficient and meticulous in the planning.
• 57:35
  Drew Forsyth: We had 10 minutes at the end.
• 57:37
  Drew Forsyth: So oh, what do we do?
• 57:38
  Drew Forsyth: Let's let's do a fun one.
• 57:40
  Drew Forsyth: And that was and that was it.
• 57:42
  David McClelland: It's often those fun ones.
• 57:45
  David McClelland: Now we've got one in the can that the client's happy with, I'm happy with, we've got a bit of playtime here, and you know this, and yeah, and you've heard these stories as as often as I have.
• 57:55
  David McClelland: It's often those, what should we do in the last 10 minutes while we've still got the space and still got the talent or still got what they're the ones where the guard's down a little bit, and you can be that little bit more creative, and so often they end up being the ones that end up making the cut, which is great.
• 58:11
  David McClelland: Which is great.
• 58:12
  David McClelland: And and also it instructive.
• 58:14
  David McClelland: And uh the thing that I take, one of the things that I take from that story, all the way back at the beginning, was your first experience and that moment of inspiration.
• 58:23
  David McClelland: Uh and I think it's so instructive about opening the door and feeling that sound, f seeing almost that sound wave hit you in a moment of synesthesia.
• 58:32
  David McClelland: Because I think it's very easy to go into an environment, to a to a meeting, a creative meeting, almost with an idea already there, and to ignore those initial stimuli.
• 58:42
  David McClelland: But actually, those first instincts, those first feelings that we get when we meet somebody, when we step into a space or whatever it is, they're so important.
• 58:52
  David McClelland: And I think actually it's so easy to shut those out.
• 58:54
  David McClelland: But the right thing to do is to go in on receive rather than go in on transmit and make a note of those and respond to them.
• 59:01
  David McClelland: And that's where your sound wave, I guess, concept for this comes from, which is which is great to hear.
• 59:06
  Drew Forsyth: Definitely.
• 59:07
  David McClelland: Drew, w we're almost out of time for now, uh unfortunately.
• 59:10
  David McClelland: But question I do want to ask is as we're recording today, sort of on the home straight for 2026, sort of last quarter-ish happening.
• 59:20
  David McClelland: Um what's on your wish list for 2027?
• 59:23
  David McClelland: We've spoken about the the focus that you would mire in those who, you know, it's so certainly in some of the professional projects and personal projects that you've worked you've worked on there.
• 59:34
  David McClelland: Are you someone who sets targets?
• 59:36
  David McClelland: Do you have like a target volume of work or a target set of clients or a target I'd like to be doing more of this in 2027?
• 59:44
  David McClelland: Do you sit down and kind of like do a bit of a planning session for the next period, whether it's a year or not, or is it more organic than that for you?
• 59:54
  Drew Forsyth: It is definitely planned.
• 59:55
  Drew Forsyth: I am, you know, and I take the same approach to my holidays.
• 59:59
  Drew Forsyth: I am not a fun guy to be on holiday with because we've got to stick to the spreadsheet.
• 1:00:04
  Drew Forsyth: Um so when I think about 20, so I I do that, I do do this.
• 1:00:10
  Drew Forsyth: I I have all my goals at the beginning of the year, and in fact, I have them uh I I won't uh show you, but I do have them for 2026 written right here.
• 1:00:20
  Drew Forsyth: So, like I and some of them I've done.
• 1:00:22
  Drew Forsyth: So I have that, and then I sit down once a quarter and I do the same thing.
• 1:00:26
  Drew Forsyth: I go, where are we up to?
• 1:00:27
  Drew Forsyth: For next year, we're not quite at the planning stages yet, but I think definitely more hybrid shooting, so shooting more video alongside or more motion alongside stills.
• 1:00:36
  Drew Forsyth: I love doing that.
• 1:00:37
  Drew Forsyth: Started working with an amazing DOP and having someone bring my someone else bring my stuff to life is just like absolutely amazing.
• 1:00:47
  Drew Forsyth: So I love that.
• 1:00:48
  Drew Forsyth: I I I think I would really like to work with more gold medal-winning Olympic athletes.
• 1:00:54
  Drew Forsyth: I already have any of them in my portfolio, and I think you know, I'm very close to the uh to the velodrome here in Manchester, and I just think there must be something, and you know, so I'm putting that out into the into the universe.
• 1:01:08
  Drew Forsyth: So a bit of bit of motion and uh some more uh gold medal athletes.
• 1:01:13
  David McClelland: Well, I'm I'm happy to play a small part in hopefully manifesting some of those 2027 targets.
• 1:01:19
  David McClelland: Uh Drew, it has been fantastic to speak with you today.
• 1:01:24
  David McClelland: We'll put links and all of the stuff that that we normally do in the show notes here.
• 1:01:29
  David McClelland: But uh for now, I hope to bump into you in Manchester, in the West End, somewhere else, or maybe in a Vela Dream uh before too long.
• 1:01:36
  David McClelland: But for now, Drew, thanks for joining us on the Photography and Video Show podcast.
• 1:01:40
  Drew Forsyth: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:01:45
  David McClelland: Big thanks again to Drew.
• 1:01:46
  David McClelland: Links to his work in the show notes.
• 1:01:48
  David McClelland: Time now to share some exciting updates on the in-person photography and video show taking place in London from the 13th to the 16th of March 2027.
• 1:01:57
  David McClelland: In this month's What Three Things?
• 1:02:00
  David McClelland: Three more exciting things to know ahead of the London show in March.
• 1:02:09
  David McClelland: The show is a great place to try kit and get face-to-face expert advice.
• 1:02:15
  David McClelland: And with that in mind, there is a veritable shopping arcade of brands and exhibitors who are already confirmed to be at the 2027 show with their latest wares and helpful experts on hand.
• 1:02:28
  David McClelland: New and familiar brands including Canon, OM System, NANLIT, Rico, Manfrotto, Rhodes, Sigma, Tamron, Hanna Muller, Pro Photo, Intrepid Camera, Style Digital, Pink Design, and many, many more, all confirmed with new exhibitors being added every week.
• 1:02:45
  David McClelland: Another great thing about the show is that once you've tried Dream Kit the size, you have the opportunity to buy it too from the dedicated retailers on the show floor, often with some incredible, never-to-be repeated show deals.
• 1:03:00
  David McClelland: So you can try, buy, and take home your dream camera or your next essential investment all on the same day.
• 1:03:08
  David McClelland: In the lead up to London, the photography and video show presents is a series of exclusive pre-show events, workshops, and gatherings in London to celebrate the city's creative vibe.
• 1:03:20
  David McClelland: They'll be taking place between October and March.
• 1:03:23
  David McClelland: Keep your eyes and ears peeled right here for more details.
• 1:03:28
  David McClelland: And that is all we have time for this month's big thanks to all of our guests and big thanks to you for sticking it out all the way through to the end.
• 1:03:39
  David McClelland: We'll be back at the beginning of October with more camera news, reviews, and features, as well as more exciting updates on the in person show.
• 1:03:47
  David McClelland: But until then, from all of the team here, bye bye.