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Touching Grass with So Dramatic!'s Megan Pustetto · Mini Scroll

0:00
Welcome to Touchgrass, a miniseries where I chat with
0:03
creatives about staying sane while being chronically online.
0:07
I'm your host, Lauren Meisner, and Touchgrass is a miniseries
0:10
brought to you by Britta, where we explore the implications of
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being chronically online with creatives who can't escape it.
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One thing that keeps coming up in these conversations is how
0:20
important small grounding routines are offline.
0:24
And for me, one of those routines is drinking enough
0:27
water. Whether I'm refilling my water
0:29
bottle before a long walk or taking a break from scrolling my
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For You page, Britta makes it easy for me to stay hydrated and
0:36
grounded with pure, fresh tasting filtered water straight
0:39
from any tap. Thank you to Britta for
0:40
supporting independent media and helping us take better care of
0:44
ourselves, one refill at a time. Today I'm chatting with Megan
0:48
Pastetto, the host of Australia's biggest reality TV
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podcast, So Dramatic, and the founder of a new podcast
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network. Kind Regards.
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During this chat, Megan and I discuss her rapid rise to
1:00
success in the podcasting industry, the hard parts of
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building a new business, the toll that Internet trolls have
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had on her mental health, and how her audience keeps her
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going. Welcome Megan to Touch Grass.
1:13
Hi, thanks for having me. OK, so you are our finale
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episode and unfortunately we did have to record this inside.
1:21
We cannot be touching grass today 'cause it is raining this
1:24
afternoon. But we got 9 out of No 7 out of
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eight. I was like, how many episodes of
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this have we done? 7 out of eight episodes outside?
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So I feel like that's a win. But welcome to our cute little
1:36
studio. We did deck out with some plants
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and stuff like that for the vibe.
1:40
Touch the plant. Yeah, we're touching and I
1:43
actually really need to touch some girls, so it's a shame.
1:45
Yeah, literally. Well, that's what you're here to
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do today is talk about all of this.
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Let it all out. So we start by asking everyone,
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do you consider yourself chronically online?
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I think I've even more than chronically online.
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I live online and I'm and I'm not actually like one of those
2:01
people that enjoys being online. I just have to for work.
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So I find it really challenging to constantly be online.
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As you would know, it's super draining and it really sucks the
2:10
life out of you, especially now with everything going on.
2:12
It's like you're on the feed and you just feel depressed and
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there's so much going on and drama.
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It's just it can get a lot. Yeah, it's a lot.
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I completely get it. So, okay, so tell us why you
2:22
have to be chronically online for work.
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Give us a bit of a breakdown into who you are and your career
2:28
trajectory. So I host the So Dramatic
2:30
podcast, which is what started my business now and it's
2:35
covering reality TV gossip. So that involves me being online
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a lot, checking what people are posting, finding out what's
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going on and tip offs constant, which is probably why I'm online
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a lot. Like my inbox is just I have to
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constantly be checking it to see what's coming in to get all of
2:51
the tea out straight away. But yeah, so I do that podcast
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and then we've launched a few other spin off shows from that.
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And recently last year actually I launched a podcast network
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called Kind Regards. So now we have multiple podcasts
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on the network. So that involves being online to
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post things for all of the pods, posting stuff on my page,
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posting stuff on my personal page.
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I'm literally like the amount of accounts that I've got on my
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Meta thing. I think I've reached the maximum
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now. It's it's crazy.
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I feel like I'm always just on Instagram and Facebook.
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It's it's a lot, yeah. So how many pieces of content do
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you think you do every single week?
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We used to do a lot more. I had a social media girl that
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was just her job was just to post on socials and we would we
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could do like 20 posts a day just on the so dramatic account.
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Sometimes more. I think during like a busy
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season with married at first sight, possibly more.
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That's insane. Yes.
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Now we've cut down. We stopped doing like the news
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updates. We were doing like a lot of like
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that and I just got so much I was finding just really
3:57
overwhelmed by the comments because even that is moderating
4:00
the comments is like a full time job seeing what people are
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commenting. And I was like, I need to switch
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some of this noise off because it was just so overwhelming.
4:07
So we actually cut back and now we're just doing like snippets
4:10
from the pod or teasers or promos for the episodes, videos
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from episodes and stuff like that.
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So at the moment, I'd say probably like 3 posts a day,
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which is that's still a lot, still a lot.
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But from doing 20 and it's just, I found it's been a lot more
4:27
easy because it's just the comments like it gets a bit
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overwhelming. People are attacking you.
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And yeah, it's a lot. The notifications like Ding Ding
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Ding. Yeah.
4:35
No, you have a tough job like the industry specifically that
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you report on. It's so volatile because it's
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got so many big personalities. And obviously you're staying
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quite local with what you cover, at least you used to.
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And I imagine that's really tough reporting on mostly like
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the local scene. Can you tell me why you think so
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dramatic was so successful so quickly?
4:56
Yeah, it really did blow up overnight.
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By my second episode, I had Abby Chatfield on and she just come
5:02
off Bachelor in Paradise. It was a first interview and it
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was a really great interview. And it was my second episode.
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And I hadn't come from like speaking on camera and doing
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anything like I was a writer. So I was like, Oh my God, it
5:14
blew up. And I was like, what have I
5:16
done? Like it was meant to just be
5:18
like a hobby project during COVID just to keep me busy.
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And it blew up literally overnight.
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And I was like, oh God, this is like a lot.
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And just again, all the comments and the feedback, I wasn't used
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to like all of that. And it was just quite
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overwhelming. And then by episode 7, we did
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like this massive episode with two girls that came off
5:37
Bachelor. They didn't do a reunion that
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year because of COVID. So I kind of had them on to do a
5:41
reunion and it was a really explosive episode and it went
5:44
viral. Like I think I had like over
5:46
100,000 downloads like in the in the first day.
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Like it was just wow. It went viral.
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Like every news outlet picked it up.
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So and then it just kept growing from that, like just each
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episode finding new like audience and stuff.
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But I think because the content is quite like it's water cooler
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content, people are watching these shows, they'll it's
6:03
topical, it's happening right now.
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They want like the freshest like updates and stuff.
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And if you get like a really good interview, it's like we
6:10
wanted we have to listen to it because we're watching and all
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of that. So I was really lucky with the
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content. And then I think the timing as
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well, it was during COVID and a lot of people just didn't have
6:21
anything to do. It was really good escapism.
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It was something to preoccupy them with, like something to
6:26
take their minds off what was going on.
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And they obviously had a lot of time as well to be like involved
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in it, consumed by it. And yeah, it kind of just
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snowballed from there. And I think I think the content
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is probably, but a mix of the timing.
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I had really good connections with the cars.
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Like I just got really lucky on a number of fronts.
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But in saying that, like, I did work really hard as well, like
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working around the clock, and it became like my only thing that I
6:51
was doing during COVID, probably not healthy, but paid off.
6:54
Yeah. So yeah, I think it was a
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combination of things. But I think if I was to do it
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like launch it today, I don't think it would be as successful.
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It was just, yeah, a really perfect storm of everything.
7:05
Yeah, I also think I could be wrong, but I also feel like you
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were maybe the first reality TV podcast in Australia.
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Yeah, and no one still. I mean, there has been sort of
7:17
copycat podcasts that have popped up, which I find
7:19
flattering, but it's it's easy when you're the first, you know,
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it's like kind of like call her Daddy.
7:23
It's like no one was doing that. So they're always going to be
7:25
like the OG in the first ones. So yeah, that was great.
7:29
But even now it's like people still aren't really doing what
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I'm doing. They'll do like a recap or
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interviews. But me getting like this
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exclusive T, which was our point of difference, it was like we're
7:38
breaking exclusives. We're not like regurgitating
7:40
stuff that's out there. It was all original content.
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So I think that also helped set us apart because it was stuff
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that they couldn't get elsewhere.
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So like, even if people hate listening to me, they're like,
7:50
but we love the tea. We need to listen to know what's
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going on, you know what I mean? Whereas other podcasts, it's
7:55
like they're listening because they like the host or they they
7:57
like the content. But with this one, it's like we
8:00
have to listen, you know? You're forcing, sorry.
8:03
I know literally I have people that are like, oh, I can't stand
8:06
you, but I don't want, I want to know what's going on.
8:08
Maths, you know, or they like the people that I've interviewed
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and so I think that was good as well.
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And I've kind of stuck to that. We tried to do like a spin off
8:14
where it was regurgitating other news and I just found like it
8:18
wasn't a successful because it's like, well, you can go and read
8:20
that elsewhere. You have to kind of keep your
8:22
point of difference and give them something that they can't
8:25
get anywhere else. Yeah, you do such an amazing
8:28
blend of I suppose like more traditional journalism with new
8:32
media. So can you tell me a little bit
8:35
about your background in media pre so dramatic I.
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Started off as a fashion writer, working for like online fashion
8:44
places and going to Fashion Week and I was more like in the
8:48
lifestyle space, which I kind of wish that I'd stuck to.
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It's a lot less stressful than what I'm doing now.
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And then after that, I was looking for like a stable full
8:57
time job. And the Daily Mail had just
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launched in Australia. So I started working for them
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and got a job as an entertainment reporter.
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I was there for a few years. It was such a good starting
9:07
point in terms of like getting that newsroom experience.
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Like I don't want to say like I learned journalism there because
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I feel like it's quite a it's yeah, yeah, learn quite bad
9:16
habits. But it was just good to get that
9:18
like experience in The Newsroom. It was quite brutal.
9:20
It was fast-paced. So I feel like that really set
9:22
me up. And then after that I went into
9:25
digital content producing at magazines, worked, worked doing
9:28
that for a little bit. I was even on the Kyle and
9:30
Jackie O Show doing digital producing like social media.
9:33
I did PR for a little bit. Actually that was before, that
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was before entertainment journalism.
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I did PR. So I've done radio magazines
9:40
online. Then I went into magazines doing
9:43
entertainment reporting. So I kind of went backwards.
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Most people start doing like print and then they go into
9:47
digital. I went the opposite.
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And at the time I was like, oh, I haven't stuck to like one
9:52
thing like this is really bad. I've done like everything and
9:55
whenever I would go for jobs, I felt like my skills were too
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diverse, like of too many things that it was kind of hard to me
10:03
for me to even be like, what do I want to do?
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Like which skills do I enjoy the most?
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And then now in hindsight, I'm like everything that I did, all
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of those different jobs and career paths, everything that I
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learned in all of those jobs has set me up to do what I'm doing
10:16
now. It was like, in hindsight, it
10:18
was giving me the skills that I needed to do this, like setting
10:21
me up for like what I was eventually meant to do, I guess.
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So I'm really lucky that I tried heaps of things because I think
10:26
a lot of people can pigeonhole themselves as well.
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So yeah. And then I went into Maggie's.
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I was working in magazines, left there because I was like, it's a
10:34
bit of a crazy story, but magazines used to be so have so
10:38
much money in buying stories from people.
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So they would buy like paparazzi photos.
10:42
They would buy stories of people, and I was seeing how
10:45
much we were buying these stories for, and I was getting
10:48
these stories for them for free on a salary.
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And I'm like, Oh my God, I could be making so much more money
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freelancing and selling these stories.
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So that's what I did. I went freelance and I was
10:56
working with like, paparazzi to set up photos with talent.
11:00
So if there was like a reality star, I'd say, you know, you're
11:03
on the show, like, let's get some photos of you.
11:05
We'll pay you. You won't have to deal with the
11:07
paparazzi because I was like the middleman doing that.
11:09
There's a lot of paparazzis. People don't want to deal with
11:11
them because they're crazy. And so I would like make the
11:14
whole process easy for them, make it easy for the paparazzi.
11:17
And we were making like such good money.
11:20
Then I was like selling stories to like different outlets like
11:22
writing and things like that. And then we were, we were doing
11:25
so well. And then COVID happened and it
11:27
all dried up because no one could leave the house.
11:29
And then outlets didn't really have budgets for freelancers.
11:32
And then I was like, what am I going to do?
11:33
I was on Job Seeker. Oh my God, just start the
11:35
podcast. I put all this content that I
11:37
was selling on the pod because I kind of already had it in
11:40
advance ready to go. But there's no point wasting it.
11:43
I'll do a pod. I've always wanted to try
11:44
podcasting, and that's how it started.
11:47
That's amazing. Six years later, I'm stuck with
11:50
it. Stuck with it.
11:52
Still here? So you are, as you mentioned,
11:54
the founder of Kind Regards Network.
11:56
Can you tell me about the difference between being a very
12:01
successful solo podcaster to now having a network?
12:05
What is that done for? I suppose both your career but
12:08
also your mental health. Mental health has been
12:11
destroyed. OK, girl, yes, as you would
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know, just I think having I think if I was doing just one,
12:17
like the network, also dramatic, it would be fine.
12:19
But doing both has been a lot. I think I've definitely taken on
12:23
more than I can handle and I've spread myself super thin.
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So I've been trying to pull back a bit recently as well, but it's
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been really good. I feel like it's really
12:33
challenged me in different ways to so dramatic 'cause there's
12:35
only so much you can do with your show because you're kind of
12:38
limited to like what the content is and what the audience wants.
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And I found like I could flex my creative side more with the
12:44
network, like coming up with ideas for new shows, doing the
12:47
branding, the ideation, the content.
12:50
I've loved all of that, like the creative process behind it.
12:53
I, I found that I've loved doing that the most and I found it
12:56
really invigorating because it's, it's something different,
12:59
a different muscle that you're flexing.
13:00
So I found it really good because when you've been doing
13:02
the same show for so long, you can get like a bit where you're
13:05
just kind of going through the motions.
13:07
It gets a bit repetitive. And I'm one of those people that
13:10
like, I would leave a job in six months or a year if I didn't
13:13
feel like I was being challenged or I'd learn everything that I
13:15
could. I get bored quite easily.
13:17
So it was a good change up. I wish I just could clone myself
13:20
and do both because I enjoy both so much.
13:23
But it's been really good. It's been really challenging and
13:27
exciting and rewarding. We've launched like really cool
13:30
shows and it's been cool to like work with different people and
13:34
do different things that I wasn't able to do with so
13:36
dramatic. Do you have a long term vision
13:39
for kind regards or are you just like seeing where it goes for
13:42
now? We probably launched being a
13:45
little bit, I wouldn't say ambitious, but we like, I've
13:48
learnt a lot as well in a short amount of time.
13:50
It's just really hard, I think in this day and age to start a
13:54
podcast and make it go viral. And I think I was used to so
13:57
dramatic, just popping off overnight that I was like, OK,
14:00
wow. Like I didn't, I don't want to
14:02
say lucky. I hate saying lucky because I
14:04
have worked super hard on it, but it's so much harder now
14:08
because there's so much content out there.
14:09
There's so many podcasts. It's such a competitive space
14:12
now that it's not as easy as just starting or having good
14:16
content or even having someone super famous or well known that
14:20
has a huge following online. It doesn't always translate into
14:23
lessons. Like some people, they're like
14:26
their followers are following them because they like them on
14:28
Instagram. It doesn't mean that they're
14:29
going to go and listen to them for an hour.
14:31
And we've actually found that some of the shows that had hosts
14:35
that weren't influences or didn't have a following have
14:38
done better in some degrees. And that's just because they've
14:41
really focused on building their community or they've hit like a
14:44
niche market or. Yeah, just maybe afraid to share
14:48
their opinions and things. Like that or they're promoting
14:51
it. Well, yeah, I've just I've.
14:52
That's a that's been a real surprise to me and something
14:55
really like a good lesson. I'm like communities, everything
14:58
in this space. Like it's not just about having,
15:01
you know, like followers on Instagram, It's it's about like
15:05
really fostering that community. And I think that's also why so
15:08
dramatic has grown to the level that it has because of that
15:10
community. I've got the feed, constant
15:12
feedback with my audience. I'm quite involved in our
15:15
community, constantly speaking to them.
15:17
I've constantly got people sending me in tip offs that get
15:20
included on the podcast. So I think they love that
15:22
feedback of like, oh, my information is on the pod.
15:25
I always say the podcast is a group effort and I think that
15:27
community, it really is though at the start I was having to
15:32
find all of the content through my sources.
15:34
And now it's got to the point where I can just open up my tip
15:36
folder and I'm like, there's so much in here.
15:39
So good. So they're kind of doing my job
15:40
for me, which I'm so grateful for.
15:42
Although just even send me stuff or give me feedback.
15:45
So I think that is really what's also helped contribute to the
15:48
success. And I always say that to
15:50
creators that are starting podcast now.
15:51
I'm like, it's all about the community.
15:53
You want your listeners to feel like they're an active part of
15:55
the podcast because people are choosing to listen to you and
15:59
you're in their ears, like on their commute or, you know,
16:02
doing stuff at home and walking. And it's it's more intimate
16:05
than, you know, TV and radio. So I think just having that
16:08
level of relationship with your audience is really important.
16:12
Totally. Like they're investing in you,
16:14
like you're investing in them, but they're investing in you as
16:17
well, 100%. Can you tell me about some of
16:21
the hard parts of having such a big and very engaged audience?
16:28
Where do I start? I would say the trolling I have
16:31
struggled with and I don't want to be like poor me, but I find
16:37
that I get a lot of criticism that is unwarranted.
16:40
And I don't want to say like I'm perfect.
16:42
I've obviously made mistakes. But I feel like I have male
16:46
colleagues that are doing the same thing in the same space.
16:49
And I'll find that that they, they can go on their podcast and
16:52
say something really misogynistic, really
16:54
problematic, slut shaming. And like no one will say
16:58
anything. I'm like checking the comments
17:00
for like one person to pick it up.
17:01
And I'm like, what the hell, hello.
17:03
And then I go on my page and I will get criticism for things
17:06
that I've haven't done at all. Like I get accused of doing
17:09
things I haven't done or just like criticism over the smallest
17:13
things that will turn into like a bit of not a pile.
17:15
I don't want to say a pile and I don't really like that word, but
17:17
it will turn into a bit of like unwarranted criticism and
17:21
backlash that it's like it's not justified or comparative, I
17:25
guess, to what other people are getting.
17:28
So I feel like because you're a woman in the space doing it, and
17:31
especially because I'm quite outspoken and I don't hold back
17:34
and I I don't care about calling people out.
17:37
Like, I'm not afraid to, you know, say, say how I feel it
17:40
robs people up the wrong way because I think they're not used
17:42
to, like, women being confident and outspoken that they just
17:45
kind of want to hate on you. And I find as well, the most
17:48
shocking thing to me was that it's not from men.
17:50
It's from other women, really. Yeah.
17:53
Like the just the internalized misogyny.
17:55
I think I've really struggled with that because I'm just like,
17:58
this is fair. Come on, guys, if you're going
18:00
to criticize me, like criticize them too.
18:01
So that's been really hard, just the backlash as well.
18:04
And because it's quite explosive, scandalous.
18:06
It's like quite shocking at times that you kind of get
18:09
dragged in by association. They're like, well, you said
18:12
this or like you posted that and it's it's a lot harder than just
18:16
doing like beauty or lifestyle. Recaps even, right?
18:19
It's hard. It's harder than doing, just
18:21
like you said even. Recaps.
18:22
Yeah. Or like you have an opinion that
18:23
someone doesn't agree with and they really want to tell you
18:26
that and it's. It can get a lot sometimes.
18:28
I've found the bigger that the audience has grown and the show
18:31
has grown, that even just the noise that's out there, like the
18:34
comments, like I was saying before, just trying to block out
18:36
that noise. So you're like, wait, how do I
18:38
actually feel about this? And you've got like all these
18:41
outside influences that are like, oh, you shouldn't have
18:43
done this or you should say this or you missed that or blah,
18:45
blah, blah. I don't like the direction
18:46
you're going in. And sometimes you just need to
18:48
block it out. Yeah, cuz it's like feedback is
18:51
great, but sometimes you're never gonna make everyone happy.
18:54
So you start taking on everyone's feedback.
18:56
You're just gonna become paralyzed.
18:57
Like, I can't do anything. Yeah, I.
19:01
Got some advice, I don't know, maybe like 2 years ago, I would
19:05
say when we started doing the daily podcast.
19:08
I do get a lot of like suggestions and feedback and
19:11
requests. And I got some advice back then
19:13
where somebody said like you can listen to the feedback, but you
19:16
don't need to take it on board and it, but it's very hard to
19:19
find the line because like you said, then you start to get in
19:21
your head where you're like, well, I don't want to, you know,
19:24
upset my audience who comes every single day.
19:27
I want to give them what they want.
19:28
You know, that's important to me that we're providing something
19:31
that they're interested in and all of this stuff.
19:32
It gets very confusing all of the noise.
19:35
And everyone has an opinion, but it doesn't mean they're
19:37
necessarily right. And I've gone to the point now
19:40
where I'm like, OK, I'll take it on board.
19:41
But also, like, even just friends that are like, oh, I
19:44
think you should be doing more of this.
19:46
I like, I know my show with my audience more than anyone.
19:48
Like, I know what works. Yeah, you sometimes you just
19:50
need to listen to yourself and you know what's right.
19:52
And I've been doing it for six years now.
19:54
It's like I kind of have a good gauge on, like, what works and
19:57
what doesn't. But it can be hard to just block
19:59
out the noise because you've got so many people wanting to give
20:01
their opinion and. I think that's kind of a bit of
20:04
a challenge. And it's hard being a solo
20:06
founder. That's what I found going from
20:08
being in a Co founder relationship and feeling so much
20:11
more sure of my decisions and where the business was going.
20:14
I think because I had someone else who was like, at my level
20:17
making, yeah, like making decisions with me and then now
20:20
being so low. And I'm, you know, I have that
20:22
contrast to look at, but you've always been so low.
20:25
It's so much more challenging now solo.
20:28
I really didn't expect that. And yeah, same thing.
20:31
Like I'll have friends now when I'm talking to them about the
20:33
business things that I would have talked to my Co founder
20:35
about before. And I'm just, you know, venting
20:36
to them or whatever. And they're like, oh, you should
20:38
do this or that. Like one of my best friends said
20:40
to me very recently, like just a few months ago, she was like, I
20:43
would never listen to like a 20 minute podcast.
20:46
Like your podcast episode should be an hour long.
20:48
I was like, well, I do them Monday to Friday and people
20:50
listen to them while they're like commuting.
20:51
And like you said, like I know my audience, like I've, I've put
20:54
out this product and it is successful.
20:56
Like I know that I don't need that feedback.
20:59
And you also need to put out content that you enjoy.
21:01
Like I found when I was trying to please everyone else, I just
21:04
wasn't into the content. And it just, it really reflected
21:08
like it showed. And I'm like, I need to speak
21:10
about things that I'm passionate about or cover things that I
21:12
want to speak about because I'll do a better job of it.
21:15
But yeah, it can be hard to block out all of those opinions.
21:17
And you do want opinions and you want to bounce off people, but
21:20
at the same time, you kind of just need to like, listen to
21:22
your gut. So you have been pretty open
21:24
here and there about how you've considered walking away from so
21:27
dramatic in the past. Can you tell me a little bit
21:30
about? That I don't know I mean, I have
21:32
considered walking away many times, but I don't think I was
21:35
ever like meaning it because, and I always say this to my
21:38
audience. I'm like, was it for you guys?
21:40
I would have walked away, but my audience keeps me going.
21:42
Like I love them so much. They I know how much it means to
21:46
them. I know that it's like an
21:47
escapism for them. Some of them have been listening
21:49
to me for six years now that I don't know, like even covering
21:52
maths this year, which is our biggest show, I've pulled back a
21:55
lot. Like last year I was doing 14
21:58
episodes a week. Girl.
22:00
Yeah, so I. You would record them twice a
22:03
day basically. And two or three times a day and
22:05
some of them are like an hour long.
22:08
They weren't like 5 minute ones. Some of, because some of my
22:10
competitors do like 2 minute episodes and mine are always at
22:14
least like 20 minutes. And they're like, you didn't get
22:17
this out first And I'm like yeah, well mine is like
22:19
researched. Well, I'm like putting effort
22:22
into it. I'm like making it entertaining
22:23
for you. So yeah, 14 episodes because
22:26
we've got our subscriber channel as well, right This year.
22:29
I had a bit of a breakdown last year just with opening the
22:32
second business and usually maths like 3 or 4 months.
22:36
I go hard because you get the payoff and there's people
22:38
listening. If you do the same amount of
22:40
work during another show, the audience isn't there so you you
22:43
won't get the the payoff. So I usually didn't mind.
22:47
And then after maths I would just fully burn out and crash.
22:49
And I did that last year, ended up in hospital.
22:52
And when I was in hospital, we were launching the second
22:54
business and we'd already like started.
22:56
So first my the first, I was in the hospital for two weeks.
22:59
The first day I was in hospital, my team had just started for the
23:01
new business. So I couldn't even really back
23:03
out of it if I wanted to because it was it was all motions go
23:07
we'd already like so far deep in already.
23:09
So I had a bit of a breakdown last year because I was just
23:12
overwhelmed. And then the trolling took a bit
23:13
of a toll as well. I think if you're not in a good
23:16
headspace or you're already like burnt out, that usually I'm
23:19
pretty good with trolling and I don't want to say good with
23:21
trolling, but I didn't even read the comments.
23:23
I'm like, oh, whatever, someone else is attacking me.
23:26
But when you're like already at that point where you're not
23:27
coping, that can just add an extra like you cannot deal with
23:31
it as as well. So like that happened last year.
23:33
But my audience, I just feel like, so I don't want to like
23:36
lose them. And I'm like, we've built this
23:38
amazing community. So this year I pulled back a
23:40
little bit where I'm doing just one episode a day pretty much.
23:43
And it's been a bit, it's been better.
23:45
It's still a lot, though. Still a lot.
23:47
That's a huge workload. Do you do all your own editing?
23:51
So I do everything myself. I've never had a producer.
23:53
So I'm doing all of the content myself, researching, scripting,
23:57
hosting, producing. And then I've got someone who
24:00
edits my audio, but I'll still do another edit after them.
24:04
Like I'm a bit of a control freak.
24:06
So it's it's very hands on. And then you've got socials to
24:09
do, you've got team A-Team to manage, you've got meetings and
24:12
all of the business side. It's it's a lot.
24:14
It's a lot. I don't know how you are doing
24:17
that much content, everything. Yeah, I'm not really.
24:20
Not really. No, you're not coping.
24:22
OK, well let's talk about how you do cope then.
24:25
So when you are feeling under attack from trolls or you're
24:31
dealing with something really heavy in the business, how do
24:34
you personally cope with it? Oh, that's a hard question.
24:38
I don't know. Like, is there an answer for
24:41
that? I don't know.
24:42
If someone knows let me know because I don't know.
24:45
You just have to get through it. I'm pretty.
24:47
Like, I'm usually pretty good because people like, how do you
24:49
deal with all of this bullshit, like all of these attacks and
24:52
like just all the comments and haters and stuff.
24:56
I was pretty good at blocking it out.
24:58
And I kind of used to laugh. There's a stage where I found it
25:00
really funny. I was like, Oh my God, these
25:02
comments are crazy. But like I said before, if
25:04
you're not in a good headspace, it really can trigger you.
25:07
I don't know, I try to switch off if I ever get to that point.
25:10
Like a couple of weeks ago, I had a bit of a breakdown and I
25:13
just, I just turned off like 2 days.
25:16
I just switched my phone off when I got a massage, went to
25:19
the sauna. Yeah.
25:20
Just all of that health stuff, which I probably should do more
25:22
regularly to prevent the burnout.
25:24
But I don't know, I think just if you can, if you're in the
25:28
right head space, like laughing at it is the best approach.
25:32
I'm always like, if you don't laugh, you'll cry.
25:34
But I don't think there is really a right way to deal with
25:36
it. I think not letting it get to
25:39
you is probably the best advice. Like it's like I said, it's just
25:42
one person's opinion. It doesn't mean they're right.
25:44
A lot of these people, it's not even about what you said or
25:47
content. It's just they just don't like
25:49
you. And no matter what you do or
25:50
however you change, like they're never gonna like you.
25:52
So it's just kind of accepting that you're not for everyone and
25:56
don't try to be and just yeah, block, delete.
26:01
The block button is my favorite. I'm like, you would die if you
26:03
saw my block list. Oh my God.
26:05
I never used to block people because I was like, all
26:07
engagements. Good.
26:08
And then it got to a point where I'm like, no, you can get
26:10
blocked if you're not appreciating the content.
26:11
Goodbye. I always get a little bit afraid
26:14
of blocking on YouTube specifically because then I'm
26:17
worried that it's going to like enrage them more and then
26:19
they'll come up with another account.
26:21
Yeah, the fensters. And then I just block that
26:22
account too. You have this unlock.
26:25
There's a good feature now, though, I think it blocks, it
26:28
says like block any future accounts.
26:29
That one really helpful for me, but they'll just make another
26:32
one. They'll find a way.
26:33
And that's what I mean, it's just like, it's not even about
26:36
what you've done. It's just they just don't like
26:38
you and they're just projecting. Have you always been someone who
26:41
is able to allow other people's opinions to kind of wash off
26:45
your back? Is that even the saying wash off
26:47
your back? Is duck water off the ducks?
26:50
Yes, water off the ducks. I was like, I don't know what it
26:52
is. Yeah, I have.
26:53
I think I've got pretty thick skin.
26:55
I don't think you could do my job if you didn't.
26:58
A lot of other people have tried and they're like, Oh my God,
27:00
like, I don't know how you've been doing this for so long.
27:02
And I'm like, thank you. It's harder than it looks.
27:05
I think I make it look pretty easy as well because I don't
27:07
really share, like the struggles that I'm going through.
27:09
I like to, like, maintain a bit of a tough exterior.
27:12
So yeah, I think I've definitely got a thick skin and I've been
27:16
through quite a lot in my life where nothing really phases me,
27:19
which is probably not a good thing.
27:20
Like my best friend's always, like I could tell her one thing
27:23
that I'm dealing with and she's like, Oh my God, I'm like
27:25
stressed for you. And I'm like, oh, babe, that's
27:26
not even like that's the least of my problems right now.
27:29
Like, so it is good. You do need to have a thick skin
27:31
in this industry. But you know, sometimes it does
27:33
get to you. Yeah, absolutely.
27:36
It's really tough. I feel like that's something
27:37
that was very new to me is coming into daily podcast and
27:41
putting my opinions out every single day about topics that are
27:45
involving other people usually, and sometimes controversial
27:48
takes or topics or whatever and getting that constant feedback.
27:52
But I'm getting much better at just like owning my opinion,
27:54
like being able to articulate my opinion well and being like, no,
27:59
I stand by that opinion. And of course, sometimes, like
28:01
you said, you make mistakes and you can recognize that, absorb
28:05
the feedback, apologize, whatever.
28:06
But it really is just like learning how to back yourself.
28:09
Yeah, and sometimes I've found like I've been so, so sure with
28:13
what I've said and what I've put out and confident with, like,
28:15
you know, I've backed myself with research and all of that.
28:18
I'll just double down and I'm like, no, like it's that's what
28:21
happened. Or that's the information that I
28:22
had. It's, it's correct.
28:24
And then I'll get like a lot of backlash and then like 6 months
28:26
later I'll be proven right and I'm always.
28:29
Like. I'll just, I got really trolled
28:31
last year for something and I kept being like, I've got
28:35
receipts to back all of this up. Like I'm happy to put them out.
28:37
And the trolling just kept going and kept going.
28:38
And the people that I was reporting on kept calling me a
28:40
liar. And it got to the point and I'd
28:42
never usually do this. It got to the point where I was
28:44
like, well, you know what? If you keep like, and it wasn't
28:46
just the fans, it was like the the people involved.
28:49
And so I was like, just to shut everyone up.
28:51
I dropped all of the messages. There's the receipts and
28:54
everyone was like going crazy for it.
28:56
But I would never usually do that.
28:58
I'm like, I know it's true. That's all that really matters.
29:00
Like my listeners know that, like they trust what I'm putting
29:03
out. But it got to the point where
29:05
I'm like, no, fuck you. I'm putting out the receipts,
29:06
dropped everything and everyone was like, because all the haters
29:09
were like, you're just making this up.
29:11
You're just jealous and all of this stuff.
29:13
So I like compiled all of the hate comments into like a
29:15
gallery with the receipts. And I was like, I'll be over
29:18
here waiting for my apology. Thank you very much.
29:21
That's amazing. Do you get people that apologize
29:23
to you? I actually that in that
29:25
instance, and I think because it was because I called them out
29:27
like I screenshot of old comments and they were like, so
29:31
sorry, like I, I was wrong with this.
29:33
You were right. And but even just like being
29:35
justified, like months later, if your news that you put out is
29:39
proven to be true, people do notice that they're like, oh,
29:41
well, Megan did say that and she got attacked for it.
29:44
And so over time that's happened a lot of like that's been
29:47
happening for the past six years, pretty much like every
29:49
week. And so I think that's what's
29:50
also like built my communities trust with me.
29:53
They know that like I'm putting out information that is 99% of
29:57
the time the truth. You can get like a dodgy sauce
30:00
here and there. But they've they've known that
30:02
like I can be trusted. My information is accurate.
30:04
So that's, it's kind of helped in the long run because they
30:07
know now that it can be trusted. But yeah, I love doing a little.
30:11
I told you so. Oh my God, has your fact
30:13
checking process changed over the years?
30:16
Yeah, so it's really hard this year is that's kind of why I
30:20
pulled back this year because last year I had, you know, I
30:24
would speak to contestants, production people, friends of
30:27
people and all of that. But so in my mind last year,
30:30
like with maths for an for an example, I got information from
30:34
one contestant who said this is what happened.
30:36
I spoke to four other contestants who said, Yep,
30:38
that's what happened and corroborated it.
30:41
And it came out later from like the person that I guess the news
30:45
was about, they were like, no, that's not true.
30:47
And they had receipts to back it up.
30:48
But what happened was these contestants were like in an
30:51
alliance pretty much. So they were backing each other
30:54
up. So it's like, in my mind,
30:55
speaking to four sources is pretty solid.
30:59
That's more than what you usually need to do.
31:01
And it was still, I'm like, I can't trust these people to give
31:03
me accurate information. So this year I've, I've actually
31:05
said I'm not speaking to any of the contestants because I can't
31:07
trust that they're a reliable source because they've all got
31:10
agendas and they all manipulate you.
31:12
So I pulled back on doing that and I found it a lot easier and
31:14
a lot less stressful because my platform is so big now that I've
31:18
got a bigger responsibility to make sure that the information
31:21
I'm putting out is accurate and truthful because it can harm
31:23
people when you've got such a big reach and such a big
31:26
influence in the space if you put out something that's
31:29
damaging to someone and it turns out not to be true.
31:31
Like I felt so bad about that, that I was like, oh, I can't
31:34
even take the risk this year. I don't trust these people, of
31:37
course. So, yeah, pull back on that,
31:39
which has been, it's been different, but it's it's
31:43
improved the pod in different ways.
31:44
Like I've been focusing on like more investigations and like
31:47
more, yeah, investigative journalism and just covering
31:50
different things that it's not like he said, she said.
31:53
And they said there's like the tit for tat kind of drama stuff
31:56
I've pulled back on, which I think people are missing.
31:58
But at the end of the day I'm like I'd rather be safe than
32:01
sorry. I'm really interested and you
32:03
don't actually, if you don't feel comfortable answering this,
32:05
that's fine. No, because you might not want
32:08
to give away your secrets when, OK, let's say like a math season
32:11
is announced. I'm just curious, what's your
32:14
process? So you know that's going to be
32:16
your busiest time. Do you immediately start like
32:19
researching the contestants? Do you ask your audience?
32:22
Does anybody have any tips on these people?
32:24
Like, how do you start the process of building out that
32:26
season? The past two years I've been
32:29
really late and slow with my prep.
32:31
I've last year I was in Bali. I wasn't sure if I was going to
32:35
come back because I was like having so much.
32:37
I was like, this life is so much better over here.
32:39
I don't know if like the part, it was just so stressful is
32:41
taking a toll of me. And I was in Bali and I met one
32:43
of the contestants there and then like, so I had a really
32:46
good inn with someone. Then they introduced me to other
32:48
contestants. I was like, OK, it's meant to
32:49
be, I'll do another season. And then those people ended up
32:52
not being the best sources. And then this year I was so busy
32:56
with kind regards that I probably didn't do the prep that
32:58
I needed to do. But ideally in previous years, I
33:02
would start like as soon as they're announced when they're
33:04
filming the weddings, which is usually like June the previous
33:07
year. So it's a long time before you
33:10
start like looking into them. You'll start getting tip offs
33:12
from people that know them. Like Oh my God, I know this
33:13
person on maths. I used to date them.
33:15
And so then you kind of keep your, you're like, OK, I'll
33:17
touch base with you when the show starts.
33:19
And so you just kind of, yeah, keep collecting information.
33:21
You'll have tip offs coming in. I usually do do a call out for
33:24
tip offs, but people will see even if I've done an episode on
33:26
someone, they'll be like, oh, I know this person like you like
33:30
here's more information or something like that.
33:31
So or even if you put an episode out where you do something and
33:35
you're like, yeah, I don't really know about that, but
33:37
we'll see all that someone might listen and they know more and
33:39
they send it in. So it's an ongoing process, but
33:43
yeah, we do like a big social media deep dive on everyone to
33:45
see if there's any skeletons on the line, look into their
33:48
backstories. I'll do like criminal checks on
33:50
everyone. Girl, that's crazy.
33:53
Yeah, we I go like deep. We do like.
33:56
You're probably doing more than the network.
33:59
Oh definitely, definitely. I don't think I can't decide if
34:02
they do do background checks and they.
34:05
Don't care or something. Either they don't do them at all
34:08
because the stuff that I've found, I'm like this wasn't even
34:10
looking hard, like this was just on their YouTube, or this was
34:13
just on a basic background criminal check.
34:16
So I don't know if they do them and they ignore them or they
34:19
don't care or they see that someone has a sketchy past and
34:22
they're like, great, you're on because they kind of want those
34:25
skeletons to come out because it's all engagement for them.
34:28
So yeah, I can't decide if like, they just ignore them or don't
34:30
care or they don't even do them. Yeah.
34:32
I feel like I was going to say maybe there's a line, there's
34:36
some type of line where they're like, OK, we would say no if we
34:39
found this. No.
34:40
But then I was going to say, actually, I feel like the things
34:42
you have found, there's no way, no.
34:44
They have like full like people that have had like domestic
34:47
violence charges, fraud charges, assault charges, all of this
34:51
stuff like easily found if you just do a quick criminal check,
34:55
public records, they they still put them on.
34:58
Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, what is like, is
35:00
it murder? Is it?
35:01
Like what is the thing? Where's the?
35:02
Line. Yeah.
35:03
Where's the line? I don't think there is one to be
35:05
honest. Wow.
35:06
OK, so it's a full process for you I.
35:08
Love this. Yeah.
35:09
And just yeah, the, the social media search, even you can find
35:11
some really interesting things. Yeah, This year, even my tip
35:14
offline because I was like, OK, I'm not speaking to the
35:17
contestants. So I don't know if I'm going to
35:18
have enough content like that's going to take out a big chunk of
35:21
like information for me. But I found with my tip offline,
35:24
I was like, God, there's enough in here for me to go all season.
35:26
Like I've there's so much in here.
35:28
People send me in the craziest stuff.
35:29
I'm like, how did you guys? And because the audience is so
35:33
big now and everyone knows about it, if even if they know
35:35
something, they're like, Oh, we have to send it to so dramatic.
35:36
And so that big audience, like the tip offs are crazy things
35:40
that people find. And then I just kind of compile
35:42
it together or sometimes I'll have we had a recent one where
35:45
there was like 10 people that sent in the same thing.
35:48
Like it was a girl on maths had crazy story, 12 different name
35:53
changes. Like she changed her name 12
35:54
times. Oh my God.
35:55
And so people were sending in different parts are like, no,
35:57
her name is Cassie. And then someone else is like,
36:00
no, it's, it's something else. And I'm like, OK, so there's it
36:03
wasn't just one. So then you kind of you get all
36:05
these leads and then you you can piece it all together and it's
36:08
it. That's why I mean, it's a group
36:09
project. It's like you get to play Nancy
36:11
Drew. All the time.
36:12
And that's what I think I'm going to start leaning into more
36:14
like the investigative side so I don't have to like deal with
36:17
these people. That sounds rude, but I don't
36:19
have to deal with them. Like they just, they're hard to
36:22
manage and then if you put something out they're not happy
36:24
with, it's just I've just cut out the noise of like, I don't
36:28
even have to talk to them. I just can focus in on my
36:30
investigations. And yeah, like I said, I've got
36:32
enough tip offs, plenty of content to keep going with.
36:36
Do people try and pay you off? No, I wish.
36:38
I was going to say, would you take the money?
36:40
I've seen people commenting. Last year I was doing a lot of
36:43
stories, one of Jackie from Maths, Crazy, crazy Jackie.
36:48
I'm not calling her crazy. Everyone else did.
36:50
She was like giving me information.
36:52
She was going rogues. We did a lot of episodes on her
36:54
because there was the content there, like she was posting
36:56
stuff so we would cover it. And people like you're favoring
36:59
her. She's paid you off to report
37:01
positively on her. I'm like, no one is paying me.
37:04
I wish if anyone wants to pay me, I'm I'm I'm open, I'm
37:08
available. I'll take your money.
37:09
No, no one's paid me off. When you have sources though,
37:13
there is, I think, an expectation of like if you have
37:16
a source from the start that is giving you information and not
37:19
just positive information about themselves, like about everyone.
37:22
Like I had sources last year. I'm like, hey, what happens at
37:24
the upcoming dinner party? Or do you know about this?
37:27
They're helping you out. So you kind of need to help
37:29
them. And if you go and do like a
37:31
story on them, like this person did whatever, they're obviously
37:34
not going to like you and they're going to stop giving you
37:36
information. So you have to kind of play.
37:39
It's a hard juggle. So I found it easy this year
37:42
because I'm like, OK, I don't know.
37:43
I don't know anyone any favors. I don't have to like walk on egg
37:46
shells with anyone. I can just report on everyone.
37:49
Do contestants reach out to you in advance now?
37:51
And they're like, hey, like, let's be buddy, buddy.
37:54
Yeah, yeah. They'll reach out to me or I'll
37:57
know someone on a previous season that knows them, or a
38:00
listener might know someone and they'll put me in touch.
38:03
So yeah, they do reach out. Before I had to kind of reach
38:05
out to them or I'd send everyone like a message at the start
38:08
saying, hey, here's my number. If you need anything like let me
38:11
know, but I'm not really like chasing after them anymore.
38:14
I'm like it's a good place to be.
38:16
Please don't. Please don't ask me for help.
38:19
OK. So the final question that we
38:21
also ask everyone on this podcast and the final time that
38:25
we're going to ask it, because this is the final episode, is
38:27
can you tell us how you touch grass?
38:31
I don't. I knew you were going to say
38:33
that. Not enough anyway.
38:37
No, I would say my touching grass would be going to the
38:39
beach, which I've tried to do this year more because I live
38:43
literally across the road from the beach and my sister lives
38:45
across the road as well so there's no excuse.
38:48
Last year I didn't go to the beach once, which is crazy.
38:52
This year I've been trying to go to the beach because I just feel
38:54
like getting in the sun, getting in the water.
38:56
It's just you feel so much better instantly.
38:59
Yeah, and just like being amongst other people that, like,
39:02
don't know who you are and have no idea, like what's going on in
39:05
your DMS can be so nice. You know what's great as well?
39:09
I've got 2 nephews that are three and one and they are the
39:12
best touching grass available because as soon as you're with
39:15
kids, it's just like you just forget about all of the adult
39:18
stresses that you have and they just instantly make you happy.
39:21
Like doing the menial things that you're like, Oh my God,
39:25
this is the biggest drama for them and you can get really
39:27
involved. It just takes your mind off it.
39:28
It's it's a good distraction because you know, you're like
39:31
you have to look after them or whatever.
39:32
You're watching a movie with them.
39:33
It's a good way to switch off because you have you have no
39:36
choice to be really present with them.
39:38
So I found that it's really good as well.
39:40
I'm always saying to my sister, thank God you had kids.
39:42
I don't have my own so I can borrow yours when I need to de
39:45
stress. Yeah, it helps you regain that
39:48
perspective. Well, thanks so much, Megan.
39:52
Thanks for having me, this is really fun.
39:53
Yes. Centennial World Podcast Network
39:56
operates on Gadigal land. We would like to acknowledge the
39:58
Gadigal of the Eora Nation, the traditional custodians of this
40:02
land, and pay our respects to elders both past and present.