Latest / The Morning Edition / Nick McKenzie on the arrest of Mick Gatto and the CFMEU crackdown

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Nick McKenzie on the arrest of Mick Gatto and the CFMEU crackdown · The Morning Edition

0:04
S1: When one of Australia's most infamous Victorian gangland figures was
0:08
S1: arrested last week over an alleged traffic infringement, it raised
0:12
S1: some eyebrows given Mick Gatto's centrality in the construction sector.
0:17
S1: Was this the Victorian police, pulling at straws in some
0:20
S1: last ditch attempt to crack down on suspected corruption in
0:24
S1: the industry? I'm Samantha Zellinger Morris and you're listening to
0:29
S1: Morning Edition. From The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald today,
0:33
S1: investigative reporter Nick McKenzie on whether this arrest was, as
0:37
S1: Mick Gatto asserts, a load of crap, or if it's
0:40
S1: illustrative of a new dedication by police to clean up
0:44
S1: an industry that's been rife with alleged corruption for decades.
0:48
S1: It's June the 9th. Nick, welcome back to the podcast.
0:53
S2: Great to be with you again.
0:54
S1: What happened last week?
0:56
S2: Well, it was a fairly sensational event in some respects.
0:59
S2: That was the writing of the gangland veteran identity Mick
1:03
S2: Gatto by the Victoria Police's task Force Hawker Specialist taskforce,
1:07
S2: set up to investigate a crime and corruption in the
1:10
S2: building sector. Huge media event. There were people camped outside
1:14
S2: of Gatto's home. He was arrested, taken away but then
1:18
S2: released without charge. His wife Cheryl was also interdicted by
1:22
S2: police but also not charged.
1:27
S3: To breaking news and police have sensationally arrested underworld figure
1:31
S3: Mick Gatto and his wife at their Mount Martha home.
1:34
S4: Police say they swooped on the fortress like property following
1:37
S4: fresh allegations of serious and violent criminal behaviour.
1:42
S5: 70 year old spent the day being interviewed by police
1:45
S5: investigating corruption on Victoria's big build project.
1:50
S2: But despite all the color and noise, when you really
1:53
S2: boil it down, people are now asking what was it
1:55
S2: all about? If he's not being charged, why were the
1:59
S2: police there. And Garner himself is sort of dismissed. It
2:02
S2: decides a massive storm in a teacup. It was over
2:06
S2: some sort of speeding fine issue. And it's the police.
2:09
S2: According to guard, being heavy handed and carrying on without
2:13
S2: much purpose. Now, I don't think that's the truth. But
2:16
S2: what is really going on? That's the really interesting question.
2:19
S1: Okay, so we'll get into whether this is a storm
2:21
S1: in a teacup in just a moment, but what are
2:22
S1: the police actually investigating more specifically here?
2:26
S2: Well, Task Force Hawk was set up after our reporting
2:29
S2: almost two years ago. Now, that revealed how lots of
2:32
S2: major construction sites, especially taxpayer funded state government, federal government sites,
2:38
S2: have been infiltrated by bikie gangs by organized crime figures,
2:42
S2: sometimes in league with suspected corrupt union figures. Officials, sometimes
2:47
S2: in league or in partnership with companies doing the wrong thing.
2:51
S2: A massive, massive crime and political scandal that is still
2:56
S2: rolling out in Victoria. Almost every other day. The police
2:59
S2: were called on by the state government and thanks to
3:01
S2: the reporting, to start investigating how these criminal figures had
3:07
S2: entered the construction sector and were making vast amounts of money.
3:11
S2: But those identities of those criminal figures remain in dispute.
3:15
S2: There has been some arrests, but largely for for non-serious offending.
3:20
S2: There has been some extortion and arson type arrests as well. Uh, now,
3:23
S2: Mick Gatto has been a central figure in this ongoing controversy,
3:27
S2: but he's not been charged with anything. He denies all wrongdoing,
3:32
S2: and really his place in this whole construction industry saga
3:35
S2: or scandal remains very, very murky.
3:38
S1: And why is it such a big deal that Mick
3:40
S1: Gatto is implicated in this particular investigation? You know, tell us,
3:45
S1: I guess, just a bit about who Mick Gatto is.
3:48
S2: Well, Mick Gatto is arguably the most infamous member of
3:51
S2: Victoria's underworld. Uh, he gained his level of infamy in
3:56
S2: the early 2000. He was right in the thick of
3:58
S2: the gangland wars. His friends were getting murdered left, right
4:02
S2: and centre. Other gangland figures. And then he shot dead
4:05
S2: a hitman called Andrew Benji Veniamin. Uh, he was charged
4:09
S2: with murder and then cleared of that murder charge on
4:12
S2: the grounds of self-defence. And became a person extremely well
4:16
S2: known in Victoria because of that. But he's also been
4:19
S2: very well known because he's been a fixer in the
4:21
S2: construction sector for going on 30 years now, making money.
4:25
S2: We don't know how much from construction companies who hire
4:28
S2: him to mediate with the CFMEU, the construction union, uh,
4:32
S2: to mediate with other other building companies to get onto
4:35
S2: key projects. Why is this a problem? Well, it's not
4:39
S2: healthy that construction companies pay a gangland figure who's got
4:43
S2: no discernible industrial relations qualifications. Uh, HR skills, business acumen.
4:49
S2: They pay him because he's a gangland figure of notoriety.
4:52
S2: And to have a figure like that wheeling and dealing
4:55
S2: in the construction sector is deeply unhealthy for that sector.
4:58
S2: But he's entrenched. We know he's made a lot of money.
5:01
S2: We know he cuts lots of deals with the construction union.
5:05
S2: And what's been really problematic about this is over the
5:08
S2: last 5 or 6 years, these deals have involved major
5:12
S2: state government projects. So boil that all down. You've got
5:16
S2: a notorious gangland figure, albeit someone who's not been convicted
5:20
S2: of any serious criminal offending in recent history, uh, who
5:23
S2: denies all wrongdoing, but a major gangland identity, getting a
5:26
S2: hell of a lot of money by steering companies onto
5:29
S2: government projects. So this is all underwritten by the taxpayer
5:33
S2: with the help of allegedly corrupt people, mostly former people
5:36
S2: from the construction union. A really ugly corruption stain in
5:40
S2: Victoria that is unresolved abounds with questions. And there's been
5:44
S2: no full accountability about any of it.
5:46
S6: Okay, so what has Mick Gatto.
5:47
S1: Himself said about this arrest then?
5:49
S2: I think we can say it in a word. Bullshit. Uh,
5:51
S2: he's just said it's. There's nothing to see here. This
5:53
S2: is the police just harassing him and the, uh, the
5:56
S2: offending on the search warrant linked to some sort of
5:58
S2: speeding fines, according to him. Nothing to say here, but
6:02
S2: that's not the case, Mick Gatto. It's his networks that
6:05
S2: are at the heart of some of the most serious
6:07
S2: allegations of wrongdoing in the construction sector. So I think
6:10
S2: a reasonable person would suggest the police might have used
6:13
S2: speeding fines or some sort of dishonesty around speeding offending
6:18
S2: to get through the front door, but are much more
6:20
S2: likely looking at something else, something far deeper and more
6:24
S2: sinister in respect of of Mr. Gatto. Now, of course,
6:27
S2: he's not been charged. I'm not suggesting he's guilty of anything.
6:30
S2: And he, of course, absolutely expresses his innocence. This is
6:34
S2: all a beat up, according to him. But the police
6:36
S2: clearly weren't there to pick up some minor offending. There's
6:39
S2: something else going on.
6:45
S1: After the break.
6:47
S2: We have a premier in Victoria who won't put a
6:50
S2: figure on the alleged corruption. How much money won't estimate,
6:53
S2: how much money has gone from her big build to
6:56
S2: criminal entities, or has been abused through other misappropriation, rorting
7:01
S2: or wrongdoing.
7:07
S6: Okay, but let's just.
7:07
S1: Get into this for a minute. You know, why arrest
7:09
S1: such a high profile figure such as Mick Gatto over
7:12
S1: an alleged driving infringement? I mean, a layperson might listen
7:16
S1: to that and go, God, that looks like police just
7:18
S1: pulling at straws when they don't have enough. This is
7:21
S1: just what I'm assuming a layperson might think, because I
7:23
S1: certainly think, you know, it seems a bit strange. So
7:26
S1: what does it suggest to you?
7:28
S2: A layperson might also think back to the famous case
7:31
S2: of Al Capone, the US organized crime figure. Now, I'm
7:35
S2: not saying Mick Gatto Al Capone, but Al Capone is
7:37
S2: very famously arrested for tax offending, despite authorities knowing he
7:41
S2: was involved in a vast amounts of bootlegging and other
7:44
S2: organised crime activities. We know that the modus operandi of
7:48
S2: Task Force Hawk has been to disrupt, deter and detect. Now,
7:53
S2: all those things don't necessarily lead to or mean or
7:56
S2: involve serious criminal offending. It can mean finding people who
8:00
S2: are seen to cause a noxious influence in the construction
8:03
S2: sector and doing things that disrupt their activities, that bring
8:07
S2: them under scrutiny, that, say, to the rest of the
8:10
S2: gangland or criminal underworld, this guy is red hot right now.
8:13
S2: Stay away. It might be about getting someone a suspect's phone.
8:17
S2: You go in there for an alleged offense. Number one,
8:19
S2: it might be a non-serious offense, but you grab the phone.
8:22
S2: As part of that investigation, you find a far deeper
8:27
S2: set of information pointing to some other conduct. So what
8:29
S2: is Mick Gatto actually mean up to? The allegation is
8:32
S2: this that there is a an unhealthy market, almost like
8:35
S2: a cartel type market set up in the construction sector,
8:38
S2: where if you pay Mick and you get access to
8:41
S2: Mick Gatto, his friends in the construction union and in
8:43
S2: big building companies, then you get access to government sites.
8:47
S2: But if you don't, you don't get access. Now, that
8:49
S2: is not healthy because it ramps up price. It leads
8:53
S2: to money entering the gangland sector, which has been a
8:56
S2: part for most of his life. It's an ugly and
8:59
S2: potentially corrupt environment and we're paying for it. Taxpayers are
9:04
S2: funding these extra payments that go to people like Mick Gatto.
9:07
S2: Now there's so much intrigue around which companies are paying him,
9:11
S2: he won't say, how much money is he getting? He's
9:13
S2: he's brushed it off. We don't really know. But there's
9:17
S2: enough evidence to know this. There is money going from
9:19
S2: the Victorian government's big build, its major taxpayer funded rail
9:23
S2: and road infrastructure project. There is money going from there
9:26
S2: to Mick Gatto. And Mick Gatto is taking this money
9:30
S2: to help companies get on these taxpayer funded jobs. Now,
9:33
S2: to have public sector projects infiltrated, if you will, by
9:38
S2: a gangland figure like Mick Gatto, is a terrible look
9:40
S2: for the Victorian government, deeply concerning when it comes to
9:43
S2: the use of public money and the potential for corruption.
9:46
S6: Well, let's go to the Victorian.
9:47
S1: Government then, because these raids, because it wasn't just a
9:50
S1: raid on his home, it was also the raid on
9:52
S1: his associate, Nick Merrick's home. These came after Victorian Premier
9:56
S1: Jacinta Allan announced that there'd be an investigation into improving
10:00
S1: powers for the state's anti-corruption watchdog to examine wrongdoing in
10:04
S1: the construction industry. Now she's been criticised for not acting sooner.
10:09
S1: So why is that and is that fair?
10:11
S2: Well, there's the overlapping part of this, which is there
10:14
S2: is serious evidence and grave concern about the corrupting of
10:18
S2: Victoria's construction sector. Now, the police have a role to
10:21
S2: play in investigating that, but they're limited to looking at
10:24
S2: alleged criminal offending. It's a very narrow lane in the
10:26
S2: case of Mick Gatto. We know they've gone through the door,
10:29
S2: according to him, over some sort of dishonesty, alleged dishonesty
10:31
S2: around traffic offending, although they've no doubt looking at a
10:34
S2: range of other things. His associate, Nick Marrett, on that
10:38
S2: search warrant, it makes clear that marriage is a suspect
10:40
S2: or a person of interest in an alleged arson fire
10:44
S2: bombing attack on a construction company director's home property. Of course,
10:49
S2: there's no guilty finding there, simply a suspicion by police.
10:52
S2: And marriage has denied all wrongdoing. But the police, looking
10:54
S2: at these very distinct, narrow criminal allegations, but there's a
10:58
S2: huge amount of alleged gray corruption, which may not even
11:02
S2: be criminally unlawful. It might be civilly unlawful or simply
11:05
S2: plain wrong, but it may not fall in the police view.
11:09
S2: And that's why the government says, okay, well, we understand
11:12
S2: there's a huge amount of public concern around this. We
11:14
S2: have a corruption watchdog that's called the IBAC, the independent,
11:17
S2: broad based anti-corruption Commission in Victoria. It does not have
11:20
S2: the powers to look at the abuse of money on
11:23
S2: these big taxpayer funded jobs. And for years people have
11:25
S2: been saying government do something about it, give it the powers.
11:29
S2: So under unrelenting and huge pressure, the labor Premier, Jacinta Allan,
11:34
S2: finally acted to give IBAC these powers. But there's a catch.
11:38
S2: It won't get the powers until the end of 2027.
11:41
S2: So that's 18 months away. And it's a year after
11:45
S2: the next election, which is in November, this November, and Victoria.
11:48
S2: And even then, we don't know what powers that's really
11:50
S2: going to get. It looked a lot like a handball
11:52
S2: down the road, a political solution for a PR problem.
11:56
S2: And what we can say is, fact is, right now,
11:59
S2: Victoria's anti-corruption watchdog isn't getting to the bottom of how
12:02
S2: much in taxpayer dollars are going to people like Mick
12:05
S2: Gatto and others on major government projects. And that's a
12:08
S2: problem for Victoria.
12:09
S1: So, Nick, just to wrap up then, I've got to
12:11
S1: ask you, just zooming out a little bit, it's been
12:13
S1: two years since your stories on this broader alleged corruption
12:17
S1: in the construction industry were first published. So do you
12:20
S1: feel like you're more at the beginning or at the
12:22
S1: end of this saga?
12:24
S2: Well, I think it's fair to say we're right in
12:25
S2: the middle of it. I mean, it's taken two years
12:27
S2: to get a really good grasp as a journalist, investigative
12:29
S2: journalist about who the players are, how the money moves,
12:32
S2: which companies are involved, which gangland crews, which bikie gangs,
12:36
S2: which union officials, former and serving. I feel like at
12:39
S2: the moment there's a huge amount of information which has
12:41
S2: not come out, and it's our job to to put
12:43
S2: it out once we once we test and corroborate it,
12:46
S2: give it to the public so they can start to
12:47
S2: make some informed decisions about all that we don't know
12:50
S2: and all that we should know about this, this mega scandal. So,
12:53
S2: I mean, we're not at the beginning. We're when midway through.
12:56
S2: But there's a hell of a lot more work for
12:57
S2: journalists to do. And why is that? We shouldn't be
13:00
S2: doing it. This is the job of of an anti-corruption agency.
13:02
S2: And frankly, it's the job of of the labor government
13:04
S2: of Victoria. But at the moment, we have a Premier
13:07
S2: in Victoria who won't put a figure on the alleged corruption.
13:11
S2: How much money? One estimate, how much money has gone
13:13
S2: from her big build to criminal entities or has been
13:17
S2: abused through other misappropriation, rorting or wrongdoing. We have a
13:22
S2: premier in Victoria who won't even acknowledge the fact of
13:24
S2: corruption on these mega projects, even though we're well past
13:28
S2: that when it comes to the evidence that's already out there.
13:30
S2: So we've got a job to do and we'll keep
13:32
S2: on doing it.
13:37
S1: Well, thanks so much, Nick, once again for your time.
13:40
S2: Great to be with you.
13:52
S1: In other news, today, New South Wales and Victoria are
13:55
S1: in the midst of a data investment explosion that is
13:58
S1: now larger than last decade's mining boom, injecting tens of
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S1: billions of dollars into the country. Police are troubled by
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S1: the emergence of the SKS and other military rifles in
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S1: Sydney's underworld, because the power that these guns carry gives
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S1: gangsters the capacity for mass murder, and two different Australian
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