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The Parentification of Girls and Women · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph.
0:07
Speaker 1: I've never told you protection of I Hiart Radio. So
0:19
Speaker 1: you kind of asked me this question previously on an
0:22
Speaker 1: update episode or a classic episode, so I'm going to
0:25
Speaker 1: ask you kind of similar. Did you get baby dolls
0:30
Speaker 1: as a kid? I did? I did. The first one
0:33
Speaker 1: that comes to mind was actually fairly disturbing experience where um,
0:39
Speaker 1: you might be familiar with this, Samantha, but up in Cleveland, Georgia,
0:44
Speaker 1: there is a cabbage patch doll like museum slash shore
0:51
Speaker 1: and my parents took me when I was about eight
0:55
Speaker 1: years old. And for anyone who doesn't know, like this
0:59
Speaker 1: is my child memory, so it's not the best, but
1:01
Speaker 1: I just remember this is a big room, big tree inside,
1:06
Speaker 1: and you know, every thirty minutes or so, this woman
1:09
Speaker 1: in a nurse's outfit would come and like shout out
1:12
Speaker 1: to everyone, like a new cabbage patch baby is born.
1:18
Speaker 1: And it's scared the hell out of me. I took
1:23
Speaker 1: one home and it what happened to be the one
1:26
Speaker 1: that eight and they had to recall those because you
1:29
Speaker 1: would fall asleep and in the middle of night you
1:31
Speaker 1: you'd wake up and you'd hear this wrong, and it
1:35
Speaker 1: would be eating your hair. So it was disturbing a
1:40
Speaker 1: lot of levels. Oh yeah, so it exists, still exists.
1:45
Speaker 1: The baby Land General Hospital, yes, and yeah, it's actually
1:50
Speaker 1: apparently was a converted old clinic. It looked creepy inside.
1:53
Speaker 1: I like, I remember that big room really well, and
1:56
Speaker 1: then you would go down some steps and then they
1:57
Speaker 1: would just be these big bin of like cabbage patch
2:01
Speaker 1: dolls of all sizes. But I remember that room and
2:03
Speaker 1: that nurse coming out and holding up the baby. Oh yeah,
2:07
Speaker 1: so that's the only kind of baby dolls I really
2:10
Speaker 1: remember getting. I'm sure I got a couple of more,
2:12
Speaker 1: but I didn't love dolls in general, so it wasn't
2:15
Speaker 1: a thing for me, but I would get them. But
2:17
Speaker 1: the pabbage patch doll I do remember, and the fact
2:20
Speaker 1: that they had like the hardhead plastic head, and then
2:23
Speaker 1: the cushy body, but then they had that signature on
2:26
Speaker 1: their butt. Always thought that was weird. Did you ever
2:28
Speaker 1: when you had these dolls? Did you play like your
2:31
Speaker 1: mom and this is your baby? Was that something that
2:33
Speaker 1: you did. I did have one that I did that with,
2:36
Speaker 1: but it was specifically made for that, And I think
2:40
Speaker 1: what I really liked about it was the mechanics, although
2:42
Speaker 1: looking back now it's kind of gross, but you would
2:43
Speaker 1: like feed it and like peas and carrots on a spoon,
2:46
Speaker 1: and it would kind of shoot back in the spoon
2:48
Speaker 1: to look as though it ate it right, you would
2:50
Speaker 1: change its staper and and I feel like I I
2:54
Speaker 1: did have that project in school where you had to
2:57
Speaker 1: I guess it wasn't a baby doll. We had to
2:59
Speaker 1: take like the egg for a weekend or something. I
3:04
Speaker 1: think it has that too, And I've never really played
3:06
Speaker 1: with them. I don't think we actually ever did the
3:08
Speaker 1: baby project, and I think it's still happening today. I
3:11
Speaker 1: don't know they actually do other ways. And of course
3:14
Speaker 1: we see the sitcoms and the hilarious nous. Uh. I
3:17
Speaker 1: believe it was in the Buffy episode where he boiled
3:19
Speaker 1: the egg so it didn't break. Ah. Nice so Xander,
3:25
Speaker 1: good old Xander. But today we're not necessarily talking about
3:29
Speaker 1: dolls and such, but we are talking about women and
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Speaker 1: children essentially, or young girls being taught to be a parent.
3:36
Speaker 1: So today we're going to discuss and talk about it briefly,
3:39
Speaker 1: and we've already talked about it briefly in our Trauma
3:42
Speaker 1: Mini series. I know I brought up the term, but
3:44
Speaker 1: wanted to do a whole episode dedicated to it. And
3:47
Speaker 1: it's a long and complicated subject and the effects of
3:51
Speaker 1: perunification in women. Of course, we're talking about parentification. In
3:55
Speaker 1: the studies about perunifications, it does typically lean towards what
3:59
Speaker 1: happens with young girls and women because it's that whole
4:02
Speaker 1: gender narrative of who is the parent and who it
4:05
Speaker 1: takes the responsibility of being a parent. So that just
4:08
Speaker 1: go ahead put that there. And of course, again I
4:11
Speaker 1: have mentioned it because it's something that I've experienced with
4:14
Speaker 1: working with peritified children as well as the families. And
4:18
Speaker 1: again we're gonna go ahead with this here. We're not professionals.
4:21
Speaker 1: I guess I'm not technically a professional anymore, as in, like,
4:23
Speaker 1: I'm not studying this. I don't treat it, you don't
4:26
Speaker 1: treat it. So um. And we're getting all of this
4:29
Speaker 1: from research and different articles, but we think that it's
4:33
Speaker 1: important that we talk about it because it's not talked
4:35
Speaker 1: about too often. Um. And again we're gonna also put
4:38
Speaker 1: a trigger warning here because it's not necessarily that we're
4:41
Speaker 1: gonna talk into anything really dark or deep We're not
4:43
Speaker 1: going to talk about abuse, but I know for a
4:45
Speaker 1: lot of people just hearing some of these things that
4:48
Speaker 1: could trigger up emotions from your past. Maybe it is
4:51
Speaker 1: you are a victim of parentification, or you have a
4:53
Speaker 1: really hard relationship with your parents due to something like this.
4:57
Speaker 1: It can be triggering. So go ahead and put out there.
5:00
Speaker 1: We're gonna do a deep dive of the effects as
5:03
Speaker 1: well as some of the articles and some of the
5:05
Speaker 1: reasons why this might happen. Yes, and also please know
5:08
Speaker 1: when it comes to issues like purtification, it is a
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Speaker 1: sticky topic. Um a majority of those who may have
5:15
Speaker 1: been partified or could have been parentifying a child. It's
5:19
Speaker 1: not malicious, but oftentimes as a result of necessity or
5:24
Speaker 1: outside forces, whether it is untreated issues within the home
5:27
Speaker 1: or even due to economic stressors um single parents who
5:30
Speaker 1: can't afford daycare for example. Of course, that doesn't gain
5:33
Speaker 1: the fact that it does have an impact, and we
5:34
Speaker 1: wanted to look at some of those impacts. So let's
5:38
Speaker 1: start at the beginning with the definition. So the definition
5:41
Speaker 1: of parentification is a fairly complicated one with its overall
5:44
Speaker 1: effects as well as the depth of who it affects.
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Speaker 1: But the term was originated in Debt by both Remaining
5:50
Speaker 1: Notes and Spark in nineteen seventy three, they used it
5:54
Speaker 1: to describe quote a common component of relationships wherebyt par
5:57
Speaker 1: rental characteristics are projected onto an individual, and typically that
6:01
Speaker 1: individual is a child. Perentification is a subcategory of a
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Speaker 1: term called boundary dissolution, which is characterized by a distortion
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Speaker 1: of reversal in the normative parent child roles. Parentification is
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Speaker 1: the process of children being assigned an adult role, taking
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Speaker 1: on both the emotional and functional responsibilities that typically are
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Speaker 1: performed by parents, which may be the result or is
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Speaker 1: a result of the parent taking on the dependent child
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Speaker 1: role overall. The bigger, more damaging level of parentification is
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Speaker 1: to find it's something that can cause trauma and is
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Speaker 1: overall a boundary violation in which the roles of parent
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Speaker 1: child are flipped and the child becomes the caretaker, mediator,
6:41
Speaker 1: or protector of the family. Now, that's not to say
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Speaker 1: giving some responsibility or autonomy to a child is unhealthy.
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Speaker 1: Charge your goals for children to learn to be somewhat
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Speaker 1: self aware, and teaching responsibility can foster a sense of
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Speaker 1: accomplishment or teacher level of discipline that leads to confidence
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Speaker 1: and nurturing that can help children to become functioning adults,
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Speaker 1: such as teaching children how to do laundry, money management,
7:04
Speaker 1: or how to use a stove properly. But this is
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Speaker 1: accompanied by a healthy relationship and support of the parent,
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Speaker 1: which often follows with acknowledgment of what is being taught.
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Speaker 1: Right so now. According to the research from Jennifer Inglehart
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Speaker 1: from Columbia University, there are two types of permentification, instrumental
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Speaker 1: and emotional. Instrumental can be seen as healthy to a
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Speaker 1: certain degree, like the assignment of functional responsibilities such as
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Speaker 1: paying bills, shopping, helping with cooking, or running the day
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Speaker 1: to day care of the household. Again, an extreme version
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Speaker 1: of this, when we see the responsibility being fully placed
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Speaker 1: on a child, it is dangerous and can be detrimental
7:40
Speaker 1: in the development on a young child. Example of that
7:43
Speaker 1: would be parents are incapacitated and the child is responsible
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Speaker 1: in feeding and dressing and taking care of all the
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Speaker 1: other children as well as themselves and maybe even the parent. Yes,
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Speaker 1: and emotional parentification is the expectation that the children will
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Speaker 1: fulfill specific emotional or psychological needs of the parents. This
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Speaker 1: is when we witness or experience. It's being the emotional
8:01
Speaker 1: rocker support of the parent, being the confidant of a
8:04
Speaker 1: parent during rough times, example, during a divorce, telling the
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Speaker 1: child the ugly details of the other parents are why
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Speaker 1: marriage didn't work, or using the child as their sounding board.
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Speaker 1: This type of prunification is noted to cause more trauma
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Speaker 1: and damage than instrumental fortification. Emotional pronification often uses the
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Speaker 1: child as the one to give emotional care and may
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Speaker 1: even be expected to give quote, unwavering support and or
8:28
Speaker 1: crisis intervention, and if not able to meet that need,
8:31
Speaker 1: can cause the parent to lash out or be withholding
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Speaker 1: and later we will talk a bit about the results
8:36
Speaker 1: when it comes to mental health and attachment issues, but
8:39
Speaker 1: it is again something to remember that there there is
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Speaker 1: a balance. When a child is expected to be the
8:44
Speaker 1: bearer of the family, whether emotional or otherwise, the outcome
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Speaker 1: can be traumatic. Right. The effects and outcomes of fortification
8:51
Speaker 1: is of course varying from person to person, but the
8:55
Speaker 1: effects can run deep and even generational. Again, there's a
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Speaker 1: difference from teaching responsibility, and we're going to harp on
9:01
Speaker 1: that a lot because we know that when it comes
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Speaker 1: to parenting that's a sensitive issue when we're not trying
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Speaker 1: to tell you how to parent, but we don't want
9:09
Speaker 1: to shy away from a topic. So there, yeah, is
9:11
Speaker 1: a difference from teaching responsibility versus abuse. But here we're
9:15
Speaker 1: going to talk a lot more about the extreme of
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Speaker 1: the trauma of parentification, so just be a reminder. Research
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Speaker 1: has shown that overall outcome for permentification of children can
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Speaker 1: include internalized problems like depression or anxiety symptoms, as well
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Speaker 1: as somatic symptoms like headaches and stomach aches. Parentified children
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Speaker 1: can also show external problems like aggressive or disruptive behaviors,
9:37
Speaker 1: self harm symptoms that mimic a d h D, and
9:39
Speaker 1: similar behaviors. It can also lead to difficulties and interpersonal relationships,
9:43
Speaker 1: academic problems, perhaps due personally to absentee is um and
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Speaker 1: with all that, the overall effect of extreme pronification can
9:50
Speaker 1: be seen in an impeding in identity development and personality information.
9:56
Speaker 1: It can affect interpersonal relationships, including with their own own children.
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Speaker 1: It can also be associated with later attachment issues, psychological distress,
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Speaker 1: masochistic and narcissistic behaviors, and even lead to possible substance abuse.
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Speaker 1: But it isn't always negative. Some researchers speculated that purification
10:13
Speaker 1: may be beneficial and can lead to better interpersonal confidence
10:16
Speaker 1: and stronger family bonds, as well as quote a higher
10:19
Speaker 1: level of individualization, differentiation from family and self mastery and autatomy.
10:24
Speaker 1: But typically this is more likely for a child who
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Speaker 1: has experienced low levels of parentification that is accompanied by
10:30
Speaker 1: healthy relationships with adults that reward and recognize the child's
10:33
Speaker 1: achievements and efforts. So we did want to talk about
10:39
Speaker 1: how women are particularly affected. But first we're going to
10:42
Speaker 1: pause for a quick break for words from our sponsor
10:56
Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So how does this
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Speaker 1: a women? Well, not surprisingly, according to research, pernification issues
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Speaker 1: affect more women than men, and that is partially due
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Speaker 1: to the level of responsibility placed on young girls to
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Speaker 1: be caretakers with the family. Like when you're not talking
11:12
Speaker 1: about as young kids, we get dolls and being told
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Speaker 1: how to be nurturing and how to care. This is
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Speaker 1: what you want to be eventually, right, you want a kid?
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Speaker 1: And you know the whole patriarchal narrative that women stay home, cook, clean,
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Speaker 1: and take care of the family while the men go
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Speaker 1: to work and bring home that bacon, which means a
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Speaker 1: chunk of the research focuses on the mother child dynamic
11:32
Speaker 1: as well, and not as much research leans on the
11:35
Speaker 1: father child relationship, although it does, but it's newer, so
11:40
Speaker 1: that is something to be said. And when we talk
11:41
Speaker 1: about it a little more um as it comes out,
11:44
Speaker 1: we see kind of how it pours out differently. Again,
11:47
Speaker 1: the nurturing versus playful and protective the whole thing um
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Speaker 1: And as one article writes, quote patriarchal values that support
11:55
Speaker 1: the pernification of a female children have been in a
11:58
Speaker 1: place for centuries. The leave that female children are particularly
12:02
Speaker 1: adept as caretakers, emotional laborers, and the dumping ground for
12:05
Speaker 1: disowned family wounds and secrets. And all of this should
12:09
Speaker 1: include the perspective that for so long girls have been
12:11
Speaker 1: seen as being more mature than boys are and are
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Speaker 1: more likely to be given that type of responsibility and expectation.
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Speaker 1: So perhaps society itself is perenifying young girls. And as
12:25
Speaker 1: we read through the many different perspectives and overlapping theme arises,
12:29
Speaker 1: and that is the competition between mother and daughter. Again,
12:33
Speaker 1: we are looking at the more extreme version of perenification.
12:37
Speaker 1: Many talk about the idea of love and validation as
12:39
Speaker 1: a finite source and being taught that one must earn
12:43
Speaker 1: such things and with that, as one psychotherapist states, the quote,
12:47
Speaker 1: patriarchy has deprived women to such a degree that when
12:51
Speaker 1: they become mothers, they often turn to the love of
12:53
Speaker 1: their young daughters, starving and ravenous for validation, approval, and recognition.
12:58
Speaker 1: And because typically paranting is a quote gendered practice, and
13:02
Speaker 1: therefore we see the heteronormative role suggest quote that fathers
13:06
Speaker 1: spend more time and play activities with their children or
13:08
Speaker 1: the primary instrumental and emotional parenting role is usually undertaken
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Speaker 1: by the mother, which can also relate as to why
13:15
Speaker 1: we see more women and young girls mentioned in these studies, right,
13:19
Speaker 1: and when we're talking about the play level, it's that
13:21
Speaker 1: whole princess narrative that the oftentimes we see fathers have.
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Speaker 1: This is my princess. You know, all of these things
13:27
Speaker 1: that are laid out on two young girls. But it
13:30
Speaker 1: actually can be a form of prunification when you put
13:32
Speaker 1: them up into a pedestal that they validate their roles
13:35
Speaker 1: as fathers. So it's IFFI like, oh God, because what
13:39
Speaker 1: happens when they're disappointing them. So that's kind of that
13:42
Speaker 1: whole Like my girl, my young girl, I have to
13:44
Speaker 1: protect her, and then if they step out of line,
13:46
Speaker 1: like they become sexual. So that's definitely another thing that
13:51
Speaker 1: we can look at, but we're not gonna necessarily talk
13:53
Speaker 1: about in this episode. But when it comes to promunifications,
13:57
Speaker 1: young girls are more likely to take on that parent
14:00
Speaker 1: role when there's a parent missing from the typically heady,
14:03
Speaker 1: normative two parent household. Again, we want to mention that
14:06
Speaker 1: pernification may manifest differently for men that it does for women.
14:10
Speaker 1: So young kids, young boys who are being pernified, such
14:13
Speaker 1: as the boys being more protective and provide for their family.
14:16
Speaker 1: Wild girls, you know, take care and nurture the family.
14:19
Speaker 1: So definitely two different, very gendered ideas that society places
14:24
Speaker 1: on what they should be doing. Prime example Supernatural Yes,
14:28
Speaker 1: Oh I told you it's been suggering for me watching Yes,
14:32
Speaker 1: which may continue again in adulthood with men over compensating
14:36
Speaker 1: to be hyper masculine in their actions and ideas. Something
14:40
Speaker 1: also to think on. And all of this birth order
14:43
Speaker 1: can play a major part into who may be more
14:45
Speaker 1: likely to be permnified as well. So when we talk
14:47
Speaker 1: about the middle child, the oldest child, and the youngest
14:50
Speaker 1: child that can play a key role in all of
14:53
Speaker 1: this conversation. So we talked a little bit of the
14:56
Speaker 1: effects of extreme promnification earlier, including depression and anxiety, but
15:00
Speaker 1: added that the many layers of low self esteem and
15:03
Speaker 1: inability to have healthy attachments and even complex PTSD. Many times,
15:07
Speaker 1: if someone has experienced this, they also experienced a lot
15:09
Speaker 1: of shame and guilt throughout their lives, whether it's a
15:11
Speaker 1: need to take responsibility for all misgivings or failures around them,
15:16
Speaker 1: or shouldering all the responsibilities as well. They become hyper
15:19
Speaker 1: vigilant of criticism and or the possibility of upsetting someone,
15:23
Speaker 1: and within that maybe a level of distracting or deflecting
15:27
Speaker 1: from a bad situation. And for adults who took on
15:31
Speaker 1: roles of parents as children, it is likely that they
15:34
Speaker 1: have become highly sensitized to errors, imperfection, and unfairness in
15:38
Speaker 1: the world. They have a harsh inner critic inside of them,
15:41
Speaker 1: constantly telling them they're not doing things correctly or perfectly enough.
15:45
Speaker 1: They live with constant pressure to fix things, correct things,
15:48
Speaker 1: and to make things right again, being highly judgmental and critical, right,
15:52
Speaker 1: So we talked a bit about the biases within permitification,
15:55
Speaker 1: where and why there may be more research on the
15:58
Speaker 1: mother child role, but they are all also examples where
16:01
Speaker 1: we see fathers who lying, as I mentioned before, on
16:03
Speaker 1: young daughters to be the wife within the family. And
16:06
Speaker 1: we're saying this in caretaker level. And again that's not
16:09
Speaker 1: to say that this there isn't a healthy balance in
16:11
Speaker 1: assisting and contributing to the family. Babysitting your younger siblings
16:14
Speaker 1: is not a bad thing for a short amount of time.
16:17
Speaker 1: Helping your younger siblings with homework when your parents are
16:19
Speaker 1: kind of busy, that's not a bad thing. Having tours
16:22
Speaker 1: not a bad thing. What is being looked at here
16:25
Speaker 1: is when this expectation that the child will become the cook,
16:28
Speaker 1: become the housekeeper and an overall caregiver of the household. Here,
16:32
Speaker 1: the level of negog can be detrimental and could even
16:34
Speaker 1: lead to harmful expectations within romantic relationships. As one research
16:39
Speaker 1: states quote that perentified child may develop anxious and or
16:42
Speaker 1: avoidant orientations towards relationships, and those beliefs are then carried
16:46
Speaker 1: forward into young adult romantic relationships. That is, having had
16:50
Speaker 1: a developmentally inappropriate caregiving role thrust on them as children
16:54
Speaker 1: may put these young adults at higher risk of perceiving
16:56
Speaker 1: themselves as only valuable to others in so far as
17:00
Speaker 1: they serve a purpose, so that we're talking about the
17:03
Speaker 1: fact that you have to earn love once again, or
17:05
Speaker 1: you have to earn your place in that home and
17:08
Speaker 1: it continues to stay. Alternatively, they may take on too
17:11
Speaker 1: much responsibility and feel that they are solely responsible for
17:15
Speaker 1: the happiness of those around them. And yeah, we do
17:18
Speaker 1: have some examples we want to go over because there
17:21
Speaker 1: are many blogs and post out there with personal accounts
17:24
Speaker 1: of genification, and it's important to acknowledge the damage this
17:27
Speaker 1: type of trauma can have and why we do need
17:29
Speaker 1: to keep researching it and its effects. Many talk about
17:35
Speaker 1: how these types of issues end up robbing individuals of
17:38
Speaker 1: their childhoods and why that is problematic, and with that,
17:41
Speaker 1: they may have never gotten a resolution or had a
17:43
Speaker 1: conversation with the parents that were the cause of these
17:45
Speaker 1: types of trauma, and more often than not, parents are
17:50
Speaker 1: are We're unaware of what they are are we're doing,
17:53
Speaker 1: whether it's a misguided effort to prepare children for the
17:56
Speaker 1: real world, or because more often than not shoulder and
18:00
Speaker 1: are so empathetic that it feels like an easy solution
18:02
Speaker 1: are just talking with someone and sometimes um and typically
18:06
Speaker 1: seen in paternal parents, the excuse that my child is
18:09
Speaker 1: smart and mature, they can handle it is used to
18:11
Speaker 1: treat their child as a confidant, our cohort. Right, So
18:16
Speaker 1: some of the examples actually was so one of my
18:18
Speaker 1: favorite things on Reddit is uh am I the whole
18:21
Speaker 1: which is the whole reddit that I'm not gonna lie
18:23
Speaker 1: because it's I'm sure half of them are made up.
18:27
Speaker 1: But there was a reference to one specific one where
18:29
Speaker 1: the father was asking if he was all because he
18:33
Speaker 1: had his sixteen year old daughter take up the mantle
18:36
Speaker 1: of the mother after the mother died, including the fact
18:38
Speaker 1: that he was going to keep her from going to college,
18:41
Speaker 1: take away all of her after school activities because he
18:43
Speaker 1: needed help with the younger siblings. Again, of course, we
18:46
Speaker 1: want to talk about the fact that there are issues
18:50
Speaker 1: which when it comes to death, when it comes to sicknesses,
18:53
Speaker 1: that yes, because are given a little more responsibility, but
18:56
Speaker 1: to that level that he was not allowing her to
18:58
Speaker 1: go to college, how much of a damage that he
19:01
Speaker 1: could cause for this young woman, as well as the
19:03
Speaker 1: bitterness that is going to come out of that in general,
19:07
Speaker 1: and how it's going to ruin their relationship. But of course,
19:10
Speaker 1: again this doesn't go back to the fact of what
19:12
Speaker 1: you have to do. Sometimes you just have to do
19:13
Speaker 1: some things, and the fact of the matter is you
19:17
Speaker 1: have to have that assistance. But I think in this
19:19
Speaker 1: specific article, he wasn't saying that he did couldn't find help.
19:23
Speaker 1: He was just refusing to do it without her. So
19:25
Speaker 1: it was kind of like, right, I don't know if
19:28
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing, but this is bad as well.
19:30
Speaker 1: As we have so many different blogs of people telling
19:33
Speaker 1: their own stories, whether it's having a mother that was narcissistic,
19:37
Speaker 1: having parents that were alcoholics, and what that looks like.
19:40
Speaker 1: And I know within my own family there's dosinant stories
19:44
Speaker 1: of them taking care of themselves or their younger siblings
19:47
Speaker 1: while the parent has gone to try to retrieve the
19:50
Speaker 1: father figure from a bar and because they're so focused
19:53
Speaker 1: in trying to take care of their spouse that they
19:56
Speaker 1: neglect the children. And who has to take up that
19:58
Speaker 1: mantle for myself? Of course, being an orphanage, I'm not
20:02
Speaker 1: necessarily perentified because I wasn't taking care of others, but
20:06
Speaker 1: it's definitely independent. And I was definitely lost a lot
20:08
Speaker 1: of childhood because I had to grow up real quick.
20:10
Speaker 1: So there's definitely conversations of what does this look like?
20:13
Speaker 1: And even though during that point in time, of course,
20:16
Speaker 1: I think boomers versus millennials would say I have a
20:19
Speaker 1: different conversation for sure, because it was expected of them
20:24
Speaker 1: to take on this mantle. But the fact that matter
20:27
Speaker 1: is it does cause trauma, and we have to look
20:29
Speaker 1: at the later repercussions of what might have happened. And
20:35
Speaker 1: speaking of we did want to look at some outside
20:38
Speaker 1: factors that can lead to purnification. But first we're going
20:42
Speaker 1: to pause for one more group break for word from
20:43
Speaker 1: our sponsored air back. Think you're sponsored? So yeah, why
21:00
Speaker 1: does perunification happen? There are again number of reasons, and
21:04
Speaker 1: we've already talked about a few of those. Uh And again,
21:06
Speaker 1: like we said, alcohol is substances, use disorders, serious medical conditions,
21:11
Speaker 1: and maturity of parents. Parents own neglect or abuse, so
21:15
Speaker 1: that kind of transfers into their own families, financial hardships
21:19
Speaker 1: and mental health issues. Um. And again we want to
21:21
Speaker 1: emphasize that not all promunification is to the extreme that
21:25
Speaker 1: it can cause these types of trauma and effects were
21:28
Speaker 1: we've already talked about. Um, I'm sure everybody's like, why
21:31
Speaker 1: are you saying that over and over again? Because there
21:33
Speaker 1: again is a balance. There's always a balance, And but
21:36
Speaker 1: we also want to mention things like financial hardship and
21:39
Speaker 1: socio economic issues and reasons for prontifications as a symptom
21:43
Speaker 1: of a much larger problem. If a family can't afford
21:47
Speaker 1: the assistance or are not qualified for us to be
21:50
Speaker 1: in school, pre K, whatever whatnot, and have to depend
21:53
Speaker 1: on their oldest child for child care or anything of
21:55
Speaker 1: the such, we can't really talk about what the parent
21:58
Speaker 1: is doing without king about what our society is making
22:01
Speaker 1: our parents do without. And I think that's something we
22:04
Speaker 1: have to remember, and I know that's one of the
22:06
Speaker 1: big debates that was happening with Senator Elizabeth Warren saying
22:09
Speaker 1: that we need to be able to give state childcare
22:13
Speaker 1: and we need to be able to provide it because
22:14
Speaker 1: what we're looking at, the people who can afford childcare
22:17
Speaker 1: are those who have the money. And so if you
22:20
Speaker 1: have that money, then you know you're great, that's great,
22:23
Speaker 1: That's on you and if you're prentifying your child, that's
22:25
Speaker 1: a whole other conversation that, yeah, it's probably pretty traumatizing
22:28
Speaker 1: for your kid, whether or not you want to talk
22:30
Speaker 1: about it. But we look at the socio economic status
22:32
Speaker 1: is when we look at women who are working in
22:36
Speaker 1: a single parents in a minimum wage job that's trying
22:39
Speaker 1: to provide their basic needs, then we really can't talk
22:42
Speaker 1: about what they're not doing right or what they're doing wrong,
22:45
Speaker 1: because we are upholding a system that's trying to punish
22:51
Speaker 1: them for the most they can do without giving them
22:55
Speaker 1: any help. And again, my name is gonna be on
22:58
Speaker 1: a list, I know, but I think that's I saw
23:00
Speaker 1: as a social worker more often than not that the
23:02
Speaker 1: neglect cases that happened to me, if it wasn't drug
23:05
Speaker 1: abuse cases or alcoholic cases or any of those, it
23:08
Speaker 1: was because they were making do with what they had.
23:11
Speaker 1: And so part of that includes transportation. So if they
23:14
Speaker 1: don't have a back and forth to get this child
23:16
Speaker 1: from daycare, then who then what we're gonna do. If
23:18
Speaker 1: they don't have family support, then what are they gonna do.
23:21
Speaker 1: It's kind of that horror level. And I definitely have
23:23
Speaker 1: friends who are part of the social work system because
23:26
Speaker 1: they had to live that life as a perentified child
23:29
Speaker 1: and they want to help. But again, when you have
23:33
Speaker 1: a government that ties hands and keeps saying, you know, bootstrap, bootstrap,
23:39
Speaker 1: there's only so much you can do, so just put
23:42
Speaker 1: that there again. We also want to talk about parents
23:44
Speaker 1: with disabilities. It's kind of that same thing. We as
23:48
Speaker 1: a society are not providing the necessary funding or appropriate
23:51
Speaker 1: assistance for families to maintain autonomy, and that is a
23:55
Speaker 1: big conversation. There's no real answer or a solution to
23:58
Speaker 1: how to appropriately help. We're not helping. And if we're
24:01
Speaker 1: just expecting them to make their own solution with a
24:04
Speaker 1: very minimal amount of any kind of help, then why
24:08
Speaker 1: do we expect that they're going to be on the
24:10
Speaker 1: same footing um And as in fact, we could go
24:13
Speaker 1: again into the bigger issue of the ablest idea that
24:16
Speaker 1: they as a marginalized community should do without a level
24:19
Speaker 1: playing field when it comes to family. So we're not
24:21
Speaker 1: going to put them on the same level and give
24:24
Speaker 1: them the same opportunities or same expectation as an able
24:28
Speaker 1: body family. But the fact that we're trying to hold
24:30
Speaker 1: them in that same expectations once again, not giving them
24:33
Speaker 1: the same resources that was given to others. That's not
24:37
Speaker 1: something that should be expected, and that's something that we
24:40
Speaker 1: need to reconsider as we're talking about all of this
24:43
Speaker 1: as well. And also, yeah, and when we talk about
24:47
Speaker 1: and we mentioned it a couple of times, about addition
24:49
Speaker 1: and substance use, it's also one of the big reasons
24:51
Speaker 1: for pertification, whether they're incapacitated because of this type of disorder,
24:57
Speaker 1: or whether it's expected that, whether children learn for themselves
25:01
Speaker 1: that they have to be the ones that take care
25:04
Speaker 1: of things. My own experience when I would do child
25:07
Speaker 1: abuse investigation cases, this was one of the big concerns
25:11
Speaker 1: with alcohol and drug related issues. It was coming into
25:14
Speaker 1: a home finding let's say, the parents passed out in
25:18
Speaker 1: the back and the child in the kitchen by themselves,
25:21
Speaker 1: operating a soave. So I had a case where a
25:23
Speaker 1: six year old was sitting there making dinner for herself
25:26
Speaker 1: and her two year old brother and asking where is
25:28
Speaker 1: your parents? And they were there technically, but they weren't there,
25:31
Speaker 1: and that child being so excited to tell me that
25:35
Speaker 1: she could do this on her own, and she taught
25:37
Speaker 1: herself how to do this. It's heartbreaking at the same
25:41
Speaker 1: time that you're glad that they're able to do that,
25:43
Speaker 1: and you know you want to praise them for being
25:45
Speaker 1: that smart and a while a good job, but you're
25:48
Speaker 1: heartbroken because you had to teach yourself that and you
25:50
Speaker 1: don't have the mill that a parent should be providing
25:53
Speaker 1: for you, or that guardians should be providing for you
25:55
Speaker 1: and caring for you at least watching you do this
25:57
Speaker 1: so nothing disastrous happens. So they've definitely had many of
26:01
Speaker 1: those cases, and um, yeah, within that, oftentimes I see
26:05
Speaker 1: trauma bonding. So when I would investigate some of these cases,
26:09
Speaker 1: Now six year old was a different case because they
26:11
Speaker 1: were younger and they didn't realize what was happening. Many
26:15
Speaker 1: children and adults don't know that that's was happening. But
26:19
Speaker 1: having like fourteen year olds try to lie to me
26:21
Speaker 1: about when their parents pass out, I had those cases,
26:24
Speaker 1: or that the parents were gone for days at a time,
26:26
Speaker 1: or what happens at night when things happen and they
26:29
Speaker 1: think they can get away with things. There's a lot
26:31
Speaker 1: of this trauma bond because they don't want to leave
26:34
Speaker 1: their family, or they don't want to abandon their family,
26:36
Speaker 1: or they don't want to tell on their family. And
26:39
Speaker 1: of course that also goes into the fact that the
26:43
Speaker 1: only oftentimes solution was foster care. And I hate foster care.
26:51
Speaker 1: And I say that as it is such a harsh
26:54
Speaker 1: environment no matter how great a situation, but being pulled
26:57
Speaker 1: away from your family, being pulled away from something that
26:59
Speaker 1: you think is stable, is traumatizing. I definitely saw this
27:03
Speaker 1: as a part of that as well. So you have
27:05
Speaker 1: this trauma bond plus the protification. It becomes a whole
27:09
Speaker 1: narrative as an adult, and it becomes usually generational because
27:12
Speaker 1: that's what you're taught. Obviously, it's something that has affected
27:15
Speaker 1: me and has broken my heart over and over again,
27:17
Speaker 1: but something that we definitely have to talk about within
27:19
Speaker 1: our systems as well. Right, and then something else we
27:22
Speaker 1: want to touch on our divorce and domestic violence maybe
27:26
Speaker 1: one of the more common cases of why a child
27:30
Speaker 1: may have a role reversal in these circumstances. Children may
27:33
Speaker 1: become the confident our protectors of their parents. They become
27:36
Speaker 1: mediators between the parents, or some may believe and be
27:40
Speaker 1: told that their behaviors are the cause of the problem
27:42
Speaker 1: within the families. Because children are fairly empathetic overall, they
27:45
Speaker 1: are the ones who may be providing comfort, our support
27:48
Speaker 1: for their parents, right. I think that's going to resonate
27:51
Speaker 1: with a lot of people, especially in our generation, when
27:54
Speaker 1: we talk about being the other for their parents, or
27:58
Speaker 1: trying to hide things from the parents, are being told
28:01
Speaker 1: not to say things to their parents. Um, and of
28:03
Speaker 1: course it happens today too, and how damaging that really
28:06
Speaker 1: is for an individual and why we need to stop
28:09
Speaker 1: that in general. But yeah, also we do want to
28:14
Speaker 1: talk again a little more in depth look at some
28:16
Speaker 1: of the signs of parentification. So we talked about a
28:19
Speaker 1: few of them earlier, everything from compensating to signs of
28:23
Speaker 1: a d h D, but we wanted to add some
28:25
Speaker 1: more so anxiety, especially when it comes to caring for
28:28
Speaker 1: others or always constantly definitely had that as an issue,
28:32
Speaker 1: may growing up being told I was bossy, but I
28:34
Speaker 1: was really just anxious to make sure everybody was okay.
28:37
Speaker 1: And I think that's that's happened to a lot of
28:39
Speaker 1: girls as a young age. Depression, suicidal ideation, compulsive overworking
28:45
Speaker 1: in order to fulfill responsibilities at school, at home, at career.
28:48
Speaker 1: And this is a type of compulsive caregiving as well
28:51
Speaker 1: that happens feelings of constant guilt and shame, social isolation,
28:56
Speaker 1: and then constant warrior concern or trouble of having fun
29:00
Speaker 1: or playing, constantly need to be in control lack of childhood,
29:04
Speaker 1: needs to be a peacekeeper, sacrificing your own needs for
29:07
Speaker 1: others to the detriment of your health. And we have
29:10
Speaker 1: a feeling many of you will recognize some of these
29:13
Speaker 1: signs or any of the effects we talked about earlier,
29:16
Speaker 1: or even the examples that we talked about earlier. As
29:19
Speaker 1: in fact, the National Alliance for Caregiving shows that at
29:22
Speaker 1: least one point four million children and adolescents in the
29:25
Speaker 1: US alone experienced permunifications of some sort as of twenty nineteen.
29:30
Speaker 1: And this is one of those things that's often overlooked
29:32
Speaker 1: as part of the problem or trauma. So I'm betting
29:35
Speaker 1: that the numbers are higher. So to s pit that
29:37
Speaker 1: caveat there and uh, with all those heavy things, what
29:41
Speaker 1: are some ways that we can work through the issues
29:43
Speaker 1: that are related to being perentified? Well, no surprise therapy.
29:49
Speaker 1: Different types of therapy are being used to address the
29:51
Speaker 1: trauma due to experiencing parentification, including trauma focused cognitive behavioral therapy,
29:56
Speaker 1: which could help change helpful thought patterns, dialectical but your
30:00
Speaker 1: therapy which could identify and change self destructive behaviors e
30:04
Speaker 1: M d r r I movement to sensitization and reprocessing
30:08
Speaker 1: to help with the trauma comprehensive resource model which involves
30:12
Speaker 1: quote psychology, spirituality, neurobiology, and somatic techniques and other types
30:16
Speaker 1: of therapies including art therapy and equine assisted therapy. Yeah,
30:20
Speaker 1: which we've used here often. In Georgia, I think they
30:23
Speaker 1: have a pet therapy as well as equine assisted therapy
30:26
Speaker 1: has been really helpful in allowing a child to process
30:29
Speaker 1: being a child, So that is something. And yeah, getting
30:32
Speaker 1: in touch with your inner child can also help. And
30:35
Speaker 1: I know this sounds cliche, but for those who have
30:38
Speaker 1: experienced pronification, many have stated that they were not allowed
30:42
Speaker 1: a childhood or that their childhood was taken from them.
30:45
Speaker 1: And being a child needs to be able to grow,
30:47
Speaker 1: to learn to make mistakes, and being able to be
30:50
Speaker 1: selfish to a healthy extent, and and think of what
30:53
Speaker 1: you need and what you want. And an article from
30:55
Speaker 1: Psychology Today's stays quote, become a parent and friend to
30:58
Speaker 1: your inner child. Take inventory of what you did not
31:02
Speaker 1: receive as a child. And what needs still need to
31:04
Speaker 1: be met. This is different for everyone. Maybe you didn't
31:07
Speaker 1: have a structure as a childhood, so you need it now.
31:10
Speaker 1: Maybe you had to intell too much structure as a
31:12
Speaker 1: child and you need freedom. Yeah, so part of that
31:16
Speaker 1: is honoring your inner child. And this involves create structure
31:21
Speaker 1: for yourself if that was something you didn't get as
31:23
Speaker 1: a child, playing or or enjoying something that you want
31:26
Speaker 1: to do or love to do. Be kind to yourself,
31:30
Speaker 1: create safety and boundaries for yourself. And I'm actually working
31:34
Speaker 1: on this in therapy right now because I did have
31:38
Speaker 1: some purnification as a child and it's I still struggle
31:41
Speaker 1: with it. And like in the first time we I
31:44
Speaker 1: was supposed to like homework that get in touch with
31:46
Speaker 1: my inner child, and it was so much harder than
31:49
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be. And I was upsetting.
31:52
Speaker 1: And she was like, well, what would you say to her?
31:55
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know, I don't know.
32:00
Speaker 1: So it is. I mean, it's an ongoing work in
32:03
Speaker 1: progress for me. Something else is learning to care for yourself.
32:07
Speaker 1: That's something we've talked about self care on and on
32:10
Speaker 1: on this podcast. It is often denied to young children
32:14
Speaker 1: who are parentified because it is seen as selfish or
32:17
Speaker 1: self indulgent, and for many people those words are bad words.
32:20
Speaker 1: But we need to learn to let that go and
32:22
Speaker 1: remember we can't help others if we can't help ourselves.
32:25
Speaker 1: Being selfless seems like a nice idea about what happens
32:28
Speaker 1: when we empty ourselves out completely and there's just nothing
32:31
Speaker 1: that it can easily become a cycle that in turn
32:35
Speaker 1: puts more pressure on others to take care of you,
32:38
Speaker 1: which means if you have children who have to take
32:40
Speaker 1: that mantle up to care for you, that can lead
32:43
Speaker 1: to them being parentified as well. Right, And again, yeah,
32:47
Speaker 1: we've talked about self care a lot and why it's important,
32:50
Speaker 1: but I think it's specifically in regards to parentification because again,
32:55
Speaker 1: the compulsive caregiving is really taxing and traumatizing in itself
32:59
Speaker 1: and is a result of being perentified. Self care it's
33:02
Speaker 1: almost impossible to do if you really haven't worked through
33:06
Speaker 1: why you need it, So it is very important that
33:09
Speaker 1: you are able to give that to yourself. And we're
33:11
Speaker 1: not talking about you have to go for a spaw
33:13
Speaker 1: day or whatever. We're just talking about whatever that might be,
33:16
Speaker 1: whether it is to take a step back and watch. Shoot,
33:20
Speaker 1: what if you love cartoons as a kid, you aren't
33:22
Speaker 1: allowed to watch it because you had to care for
33:23
Speaker 1: everything else and you didn't have the time watch a cartoon.
33:26
Speaker 1: Enjoy that, Enjoy what that brings out in you. And Yeah,
33:29
Speaker 1: there's a lot we didn't talk about, especially in this episode,
33:33
Speaker 1: that we probably could address. And I know that y'all
33:36
Speaker 1: as an audience probably have a lot of experiences and
33:39
Speaker 1: a lot of advice and a lot of things that
33:41
Speaker 1: you have worked out that you can send to us,
33:43
Speaker 1: and we would love to hear that, because that's the
33:45
Speaker 1: best way to learn, is when you have someone that
33:48
Speaker 1: you can relate to in so many aspects. And again,
33:51
Speaker 1: perortification comes through so many different forms. Mine was specific
33:54
Speaker 1: to being abandoned. Like my issues are probably more reactive
33:57
Speaker 1: attachment issues, which I do want to dig in to
34:00
Speaker 1: us well later on. But also it takes me to
34:03
Speaker 1: grow up very quickly and survival skills, and that's kind
34:06
Speaker 1: of what this is. And whether it's you learning that
34:09
Speaker 1: you have to provide for others or feeling like that's
34:11
Speaker 1: how you have self worth, that's a big conversation and
34:14
Speaker 1: to break that down and what that looks like when
34:16
Speaker 1: you finally start letting that go. And again, this is
34:18
Speaker 1: definitely an issue that should be talked about and remembered
34:21
Speaker 1: when we look at what's happening with our society and
34:24
Speaker 1: while we are the way we are, I think that's
34:26
Speaker 1: one of the big things that we have to be
34:28
Speaker 1: able to do. It's not necessarily excuse people, but understand people.
34:33
Speaker 1: And again, this is a small portion of a much
34:36
Speaker 1: larger picture when it comes to relationships, when it comes
34:39
Speaker 1: to ourselves and understanding ourselves. And if you have something
34:42
Speaker 1: that you think we missed, please let us know. We
34:44
Speaker 1: love hearing more infralimation and we love to learn with y'all.
34:48
Speaker 1: So yeah, give us that info, yes please, and you
34:52
Speaker 1: can send that to our email. It's just step Media,
34:55
Speaker 1: Mom Stuff that I Hurt Me and dot com. You
34:57
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, a mom Stuff podcast, or
34:59
Speaker 1: an Stagram and stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as
35:01
Speaker 1: always to your super producer Christina, Thank you for caring
35:04
Speaker 1: for us, yes, and thanks to you for listening Stuff
35:07
Speaker 1: I Never Told Me, his production of I Heeart Radio.
35:09
Speaker 1: For more podcast from I Heeart Radio, visit the iHeart
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