Latest / Karl and Crew / What It Takes to See Awakening with Dr. Douglas Small & Boundaries that Lead to Real Change with Dr. Henry Cloud

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What It Takes to See Awakening with Dr. Douglas Small & Boundaries that Lead to Real Change with Dr. Henry Cloud · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined. Start
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  S1: your morning with a laugh.
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  S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not tricks,
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  S2: but tips and tricks.
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  S3: Tips and tricks to kill. Tips and tricks.
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  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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  S4: All of my attempts to you know. Prop myself up
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  S4: with achievement and good works. Well, God wasn't impressed by that,
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  S4: even if other people were.
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  S2: The gospel changes everything.
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  S5: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement
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  S5: just falling to the ground.
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  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios. This is Carl
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  S1: and Crew.
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  S6: So I worked at a lumber yard in high school
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  S6: and saved all the money I could to get ready
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  S6: for this 100 mile dog sled race across Alaska called
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  S6: the Iditarod. Still, sometimes I think to myself, how did
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  S6: I do that?
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  S2: Man.
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  S6: I was 18. How did that happen?
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  S2: You did like every job. Well, you were a car.
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  S2: You built houses.
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  S6: Well, I built houses because my dad trained me in carpentry.
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  S6: Because we built our own homes or modified them when
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  S6: I was a kid growing up. But my dad had
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  S6: summers off because he was a teacher and a principal.
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  S2: Yeah. Grocery store, lumber.
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  S6: Yard, store.
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  S2: Fishing.
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  S6: Commercial fishing, commercial fishing, oil.
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  S7: Field. I forgot that one.
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  S2: Yeah, that's a lot of jobs.
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  S6: But the lumber yard was a good job. The interesting
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  S6: thing about the lumber yard is that, um. Have you
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  S6: ever been in a job? And you're wondering, you almost
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  S6: don't see a world outside of that job.
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  S2: Mhm. In what?
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  S6: And you're. It's like you aim for it, you got it.
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  S6: And then you kind of get stuck in, in kind
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  S6: of a grind and you're like, man.
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  S2: Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
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  S6: It's like, I don't know if I can get out
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  S6: of this. And I know that that's prevalent because I
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  S6: started feeling the same way. I'm working at builder's supply
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  S6: and I'm loading up trucks with, you know, I mean,
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  S6: from two by 12, 20 foot long to, you know, sheetrock,
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  S6: trim molding, you name it, mix and paint. That was
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  S6: hair raising because these crazy paint mixers, man, you put
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  S6: in all these different dye solutions. This is back in
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  S6: the day before it was all electronically programmed. You used
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  S6: to have to pump this dye up and then hold
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  S6: this lever down and put in the exact amount. But
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  S6: if there was a little air gap, it went like
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  S6: in the middle of putting that paint in. If you
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  S6: heard a little pop pop where it was just air bubbles,
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  S6: that that changed the composition of the color by just
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  S6: a little bit. Yeah. So then you had to start
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  S6: all over again. So we used to sell back in
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  S6: the day. Lumberyards used to sell paint gallons that they
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  S6: put a paint on the top, a little smudge. This
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  S6: is the color because you'd had to do do overs
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  S6: over and over again sometimes for to get that person's
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  S6: paint color that they required. And so I'm in this
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  S6: grind Spenard builders supply. And I remember thinking to myself,
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  S6: I can't change because I'm, I just work at Spooner
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  S6: Builders Supply. There's, I don't know what had come over
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  S6: my head, but I'm loading up lumber one day and
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  S6: Diderot's done and I'm kind of feeling a malaise. And
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  S6: I'm certainly not walking with Jesus at this point in time,
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  S6: but a guy, I'm loading up his truck and he goes, hey,
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  S6: what's your what's your future hold for you? I said, well,
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  S6: you know, I just made a made up my mind.
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  S6: I'm not going to compete in the Iditarod again next year.
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  S6: So I'm kind of feeling like, I don't know. And
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  S6: he goes, you know, you really ought to think about
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  S6: going to the North Slope, the oil fields in Prudhoe Bay.
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  S6: And I'm like, well, tell me more. He goes, oh yeah, man.
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  S6: They've got they're hiring people up there. There's a lot
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  S6: of money to be made. That was my focus at
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  S6: the time. Right? But it was that one little conversation
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  S6: that jarred me loose from I can't change out of
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  S6: this groove because who knows why I thought that. But
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  S6: that one conversation broke it loose. I went home that day.
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  S6: I'm on Cloud nine. I even had a contact name.
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  S6: I made a call to Prudhoe Bay, and the advantage
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  S6: I had is, you know, completed the Iditarod. So they're like, okay,
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  S6: this guy's got a work ethic, that's for sure.
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  S4: Yeah.
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  S6: Because he had too many 18 year olds like that
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  S6: running around.
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  S2: You know, I think sometimes it's just that that sense
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  S2: of like, I don't really know what to do. That
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  S2: leaves us in indecision. I mean, for me, I before
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  S2: radio was ever a thought on my mind, I, I
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  S2: was going to be a police officer, but the only
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  S2: reason I really chose that is because I didn't know
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  S2: what to do and I didn't like I was I
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  S2: didn't know what I was good at.
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  S6: Grab grab a random job and go, uh.
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  S3: Exactly.
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  S6: The reason I'm mentioning this, guys, is that on Thursday,
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  S6: we're going to have Robert Dickie in here to tackle. Oh,
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  S6: some of you feel like I can't change because I've
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  S6: been here forever. I can't change because the fear of
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  S6: leaving what is secure, even though it's not really what
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  S6: I want, it's too big a leap. And he's going
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  S6: to break us free from that thinking. So a little
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  S6: forecast for Thursday coming up. How about that alley?
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  S4: That's going to be exciting. I think that that's a
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  S4: big one when it comes to, oh, this is just
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  S4: the only thing I've done. It's the only thing I
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  S4: know to do.
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  S6: I can't change because this is what I do. I mix, paint,
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  S6: screw it up every now and then, and have to
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  S6: sell it at a reduced rate. I load lumber on trucks,
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  S6: and by the way, there's no knock on that for
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  S6: people that are in an industry and they're grooving on
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  S6: it for a long time. I mean, there's great value
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  S6: in that. Longevity is great. I think the turnover is
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  S6: way too high. I think the average stay at a
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  S6: job right now is like 2 to 3 years or
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  S6: something crazy like that.
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  S4: Oh, I mean, it's gone way down. I mean, gone
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  S4: are the days I think about my grandfather, who.
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  S6: A.
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  S4: Lifer. He worked for Kodak for probably 50 years.
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  S7: Oh, exactly. Oh yeah. The mill workers. I mean, they're
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  S7: there for decades. Decades.
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  S6: And there's so there's a lot of legitimacy in hanging
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  S6: in for the long haul, for sure. I mean, we
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  S6: believe that we've been here forever, man. We showed up
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  S6: when the wheel was invented. And we're still here. That's right.
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  S6: So we we enjoy that. But the the fact is,
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  S6: when you sense the Spirit of God maybe bumping your cup, saying, hey,
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  S6: it's time to move on. What do you do? How
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  S6: do you do it? So Robert Dickie, Thursday, nothing like
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  S6: forecasting what's going on. I know we're in Tuesday, I
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  S6: get that. But in 48 hours we're going to be
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  S6: here dishing it up. Can't wait. Robert Dickie's an expert
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  S6: on this stuff, man.
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  S4: 48 hours from now. Yeah. What's happening? Three minutes from now?
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  S6: Three minutes from now. So let me tell you, I
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  S6: can't change because of these people that are in my way.
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  S6: They just. They're there.
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  S4: Yes.
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  S6: And I don't know what to do with them.
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  S4: I'm stuck with them.
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  S6: Yeah, I'm stuck with them. I can't get away from them.
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  S6: Oh my goodness. Who do we have? Ali.
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  S4: We have oh, boy. Doctor Henry Cloud his book. A
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  S4: best seller. Over 20 million copies. Boundaries. Maybe not what
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  S4: you think they are, though. Certainly not what it's become
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  S4: as of late. Should I just boot all those people
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  S4: out and call it a boundary?
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  S3: Get out of here.
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  S6: No, it's something much better than that. Hang on.
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  S1: I want to hear that again. Just download the Curl
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  S1: and Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
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  S6: Don't you hate it, Ali? When someone comes along and
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  S6: has something to say to you or writes a book
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  S6: and it's like it takes your excuses away from you.
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  S7: I hate that this is hypothetical.
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  S6: Oh, no. This is more than hypothetical. I mean, it
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  S6: starts in our youth and it just keeps going. That
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  S6: wise guy comes along and takes away those excuses from me.
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  S6: It's like, hey, I was good with my excuses. Don't
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  S6: be bumping my cup. That's what boundaries can do to you.
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  S6: You know, I mean, this is an iconic book. Doctor
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  S6: Henry Cloud, this guy. I just what I love about
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  S6: Henry Cloud is that he's authentic on spiritual steroids. And
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  S6: it's helpful. You know what you did, Henry? You took
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  S6: away a bunch of excuses with this book that you
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  S6: wrote a number of years ago. You just took them
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  S6: away from us.
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  S8: I don't know if that's even possible because people make excuses.
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  S8: They'll hold on to them pretty tight. But, you know,
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  S8: you know, we did probably do. We helped the people
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  S8: that were on the other end of those excuses, getting
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  S8: all controlled and abused and all that stuff. Not not
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  S8: to listen to those excuses anymore.
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  S4: Doctor Henry Cloud, our guest this morning, he's an acclaimed
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  S4: leadership expert, clinical psychologist, New York Times best selling author.
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  S4: His book, boundaries, has sold nearly 20 million copies worldwide. Boundaries.
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  S4: When to say yes, how to say no to take
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  S4: control of your life. Were you surprised by the the
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  S4: ascent of that book?
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  S3: I was wondering.
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  S6: The same thing. Ali. I was wondering, did you know
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  S6: that this was going to rocket down like this?
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  S8: No. In fact, it's kind of a funny story. We
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  S8: were I had written a book called Changes at Heel
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  S8: and Boundaries is the second of the four big changes
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  S8: we need to make that book talks about. So we
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  S8: would be out speaking on that book, and we were
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  S8: doing a planning session one day and the facilitator asked,
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  S8: so what are all the questions y'all are mostly about
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  S8: when you go speak on this? And we laughed and
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  S8: we said, oh, all the questions are about boundaries. And
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  S8: they said, why don't you write a book on that?
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  S8: And I said, you know, that's a great idea because
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  S8: we write the book, that'll answer the questions, and then
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  S8: we won't ever have to talk about this again.
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  S6: However, many years later, the questions just keep coming.
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  S8: Probably what it is, is two things or three things, really.
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  S8: It hit a chord because, you know, as Christians, and
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  S8: rightly so, we're taught to be loving and forgiving and
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  S8: patient and forbearing and long suffering. And that's very, very true.
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  S8: But that eliminates about half of the parallel teachings that
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  S8: the whole Bible. And, you know, Old Testament and New
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  S8: Testament say that we should have grace and that grace
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  S8: should always be expressed with truth. And truth is, you know,
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  S8: God has an entire law that's based on love. But
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  S8: the truth has expectations for how love has to operate
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  S8: or love will get, you know, perverted. It'll get all
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  S8: messed up. It's like driving a car. You got to
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  S8: drive the car, but it's got to be driven in
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  S8: a certain way for it to work. And what boundaries
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  S8: really was about was to show all the biblical teachings that, yes,
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  S8: you can be loving and caring and long suffering and
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  S8: all of that and still have requirements, you know, for behavior.
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  S8: And if people violate those, there's very clear teachings throughout
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  S8: the scripture that you're to say no to that, and
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  S8: you're to stand up against that, you're to contain that,
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  S8: you're not to enable it. And on and on and on.
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  S6: Uh, last time we had you on Henry, we were
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  S6: going after a topic. I actually don't want to spend
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  S6: too much time on it, but, I mean, there is
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  S6: this boundaries run amok that are now called walls. And
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  S6: it's some people have, frankly, abused your word that you popularized.
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  S6: And we took that straw man and blew it out
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  S6: of the water last time you were with us. So
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  S6: that's not the intent of what you're doing for sure.
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  S6: But here's here's an interesting thought I had because I
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  S6: try to get a little think a little more deeply.
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  S6: There's a tendency to say, all right, these truths, the
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  S6: boundaries are dynamite. This is great. So I'm not going
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  S6: to let people into my home. My heart's home. I'm
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  S6: going to make sure that these are here, not cutting
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  S6: them off. But there's circles of trust that have to
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  S6: be regained or earned for the first time. There's a
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  S6: tendency at times in the flesh to go back in
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  S6: and take the bull by the horns, say our piece.
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  S6: We set boundaries, but then we still take back control,
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  S6: wanting to see the change ourselves. Why do we do that?
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  S8: Yeah. That's, you know, so interesting. I've heard people say,
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  S8: you know, well, I, I told my, you know, sister,
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  S8: you know, friend or husband or whatever, I'm putting a
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  S8: boundary on you. You can't do that. And I'll say, well, what? No, no,
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  S8: no no no no, no, You can't put a boundary
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  S8: on somebody. A boundary is a property line. It's a limit.
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  S8: It's like your fence around your property. That's you. And
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  S8: if somebody is stepping over the fence and abusing you or,
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  S8: you know, hurting you in some toxic way, then what
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  S8: you're saying with a boundary is that you're saying, you
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  S8: know what? I don't allow myself to be treated that way. Okay.
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  S8: You are free to continue to yell at me or
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  S8: use heroin or whatever you want to do, but I
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  S8: won't allow myself to live with you while you're still
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  S8: using drugs. Okay? You can do what you want. See,
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  S8: the Bible God has has a lot of boundaries, but
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  S8: what he does is he sets a boundary on what
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  S8: he will allow in his house, in his life, in
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  S8: heaven and everywhere else. And he gives people freedom. You
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  S8: can choose this road or you can choose that road
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  S8: and you can't control another person. And people do kind
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  S8: of try to do that sometimes.
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  S4: Doctor Henry Cloud with us this morning. He is the
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  S4: author of the iconic book boundaries has sold nearly 20
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  S4: million copies worldwide. Coming up, let's apply this to our
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  S4: week's theme. I can't change because the people in my
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  S4: life is what we're talking about today. How do we
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  S4: apply boundaries in a way that can blow that excuse
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  S4: out of the water? More coming up here on Carl
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  S4: and crew.
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  S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then
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  S1: he got saved. Young thunders in the crew, it's Carl
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  S1: and crew on Moody radio.
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  S4: You want to change, but you can't, right? You can't
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  S4: change because of that difficult person in your life. Those in-laws,
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  S4: that spouse, those children, those coworkers that toxic this or
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  S4: that common to make those kind of excuses, right, Karl?
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  S4: I can't change because of the people around me.
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  S6: Yeah. And I think in the in the natural man,
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  S6: it's real common challenge to that. We approach every day
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  S6: of the week.
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  S4: Doctor Henry Cloud speaking some life into us this morning.
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  S4: How do we apply the principles that you've talked about
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  S4: in your book, your best seller boundaries to this excuse?
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  S4: It's easy to say, let's just take family relationships, whether
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  S4: it's spouse, in-laws, those in particular. These people make it
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  S4: so difficult I can't change. I would like to, but
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  S4: they are keeping me from being what I know God
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  S4: wants me to be.
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  S8: Well, it's pretty clear that the scriptures, um, are really
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  S8: big on something, on control and the kind of control
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  S8: the scriptures are big on is self control is the
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  S8: fruit of the spirit. And God has designed everybody to
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  S8: where we can't control other people, but we can take
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  S8: control of ourselves. And it's like when somebody says, you
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  S8: make me so angry. No. People do certain things. And
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  S8: then our response to what people do is our responsibility.
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  S8: And the big difference. A lot of times in holiness
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  S8: and not is how we respond to the outside world.
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  S8: You know, Jesus had a lot of really not so
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  S8: good people around him trying to, you know, knock him
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  S8: off his horse or donkey, I should say all the time,
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  S8: all the time. And he was always in control of
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  S8: his responses. And, you know, one of the laws of
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  S8: boundaries that we put in the book was called The
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  S8: Law of Responsibility for and Responsibility to. We are responsible
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  S8: for ourselves and we are to act responsibly to others.
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  S8: So if somebody in our life is doing all sorts
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  S8: of stuff, then, you know, we got to be responsible
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  S8: to them by, you know, we got to be kind.
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  S8: Sometimes got to be truthful and firm when we're kind
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  S8: and you can't do anything to them. But you can
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  S8: always take responsibility for yourself. We're responsible for our own
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  S8: reactions and responses. There could be no such thing as
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  S8: the expansion of the gospel. If if the light said, well,
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  S8: I can't, I can't. You know, the light has no
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  S8: power because there's so much darkness there. It just, you know,
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  S8: until the darkness, until those people get better, you know,
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  S8: we can't that's just, you know, this goes way back
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  S8: to the garden. I mean, God came to Adam and said, dude,
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  S8: you know, this is in the Hebrew. I think, dude, what,
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  S8: what what are you doing here? He said, well, was
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  S8: the woman you gave me. God, I, you know, it's
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  S8: not me. And then he goes to Eve and she said, well,
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  S8: it was the serpent. And so it's within fallen human
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  S8: nature to disavow responsibility for ourselves. You see families change,
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  S8: for example, when you have an addict and the addict is,
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  S8: you know, making the home hurtful, chaotic, whatever, and the
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  S8: person feels, you know, powerless and helplessness and do anything
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  S8: about that until they learn. No, you can take responsibility
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  S8: for yourself. And you can say, even though this person is,
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  S8: you know, addicted or whatever it is, and doing all this,
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  S8: I still have control of me and I can make
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  S8: choices to not enable that. The last thing I want
• 18:04
  S8: to do is go through life and allowing other people's
• 18:07
  S8: dysfunction to define how we are going to pay. The
• 18:11
  S8: Bible is very clear about this do not return evil
• 18:15
  S8: for evil, but overcome evil with good. Yeah, you're not
• 18:18
  S8: controlled by the bad stuff on the outside. Now there
• 18:22
  S8: are people that are oppressed. You know, there are people
• 18:25
  S8: that are taken captive and they literally are powerless. But
• 18:29
  S8: that's not what y'all are talking about, right?
• 18:31
  S6: Yeah. Doctor Henry Cloud, our guest right now. Yeah. I
• 18:33
  S6: think this is really important timing on your response there
• 18:36
  S6: because here's my thought and I've heard this now we
• 18:40
  S6: have two campuses here, one of Chicago here in Chicago.
• 18:44
  S6: And among those two campuses that we know of, 43
• 18:49
  S6: adult children of imperfect but awesome parents raise their kids. Well,
• 18:54
  S6: not perfectly, but really well. And a large percentage of
• 18:59
  S6: those have gone full on ghosting. What's it? No contacting. Right?
• 19:03
  S7: No contact.
• 19:04
  S6: No contact. How do you on the flip side of that, uh,
• 19:09
  S6: how do you deal with that in, in that situation?
• 19:12
  S6: Because there's this, it's not boundary building. It's like walls.
• 19:15
  S6: You will not see your grandkids. You will not do this.
• 19:18
  S6: You will not do that. It's an epidemic. Henry. You
• 19:21
  S6: know that, right?
• 19:22
  S8: Yeah. It's becoming a big deal. And it's so sad because,
• 19:27
  S8: I mean, go to the boundaries book. It's very clear
• 19:30
  S8: about this. Boundaries are in the service of love. Boundaries
• 19:34
  S8: are in the service of relationship. Now, the Bible actually
• 19:39
  S8: does give you it actually, you know, prescribes this. There
• 19:45
  S8: is an option of staying away, separating from certain kinds
• 19:51
  S8: of people. Okay. But that's at the end of a
• 19:56
  S8: long process of you doing everything possible to get them
• 19:59
  S8: to come to the table and people that feel offended
• 20:03
  S8: and just go somebody or shut them out, that is
• 20:07
  S8: not biblical at all. What we're to do is what
• 20:11
  S8: the Scripture says. If you know, if somebody says you
• 20:14
  S8: go to them and you try to work it out.
• 20:16
  S8: I mean, you know, one of the most severe boundaries passages,
• 20:21
  S8: and I never really understood this until I understood character
• 20:24
  S8: pathology was when Paul says, reject a divisive person after
• 20:29
  S8: a second warning. I go, well, that's not very patient,
• 20:33
  S8: you know. And when you understand that some people, when
• 20:38
  S8: you talk to them and you try and you try
• 20:40
  S8: and you try and you're offering, you know, the olive
• 20:44
  S8: branch and you're really trying to work this out, you know,
• 20:46
  S8: come to counseling with me. Let's go talk to our
• 20:48
  S8: pastor together. You want to really have a good relationship
• 20:51
  S8: and they continue to abuse somebody or something. Then you've
• 20:55
  S8: tried everything you can try. But the cases you're talking about,
• 20:58
  S8: nobody's even trying. Yeah. They just feel offended. And now
• 21:02
  S8: they call it, you're triggering me and all this kind
• 21:04
  S8: of junk. There's nothing in the boundaries book like that,
• 21:08
  S8: and there's nothing in the scriptures like that. You know,
• 21:10
  S8: we are to continue to try and try and try.
• 21:15
  S8: And if somebody, you know, if it's really, really abusive,
• 21:19
  S8: certainly you say, well, if you continue this, just like
• 21:22
  S8: Matthew 18 says, after you've talked to him one on one,
• 21:25
  S8: and then you got 2 or 3 more, and then
• 21:27
  S8: you get a group together at some point. Yeah, there's
• 21:30
  S8: some kinds of abuse that you got to say, well, look,
• 21:33
  S8: but you always say, But I'm open to you and
• 21:36
  S8: I'm open to the relationship. If you will deal with
• 21:39
  S8: this and stop, then we can have great, we can
• 21:41
  S8: have great times together. Yeah. So that's just that's just
• 21:46
  S8: stupid is the right word.
• 21:49
  S6: I love it.
• 21:51
  S8: I'm not telling people to be open continually, to be abused.
• 21:55
  S8: The boundaries, the whole concept teaches the opposite of that.
• 21:59
  S8: But you are always trying to be open to redemption
• 22:03
  S8: and reconciliation. And as Paul says, in as much as
• 22:07
  S8: it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
• 22:09
  S6: I love that. You know, the interesting thing quick comment
• 22:12
  S6: on that one is I think a lot of parents
• 22:14
  S6: just feel like it's on them to convince their kids
• 22:19
  S6: that I love you, or that I really want to
• 22:22
  S6: listen to you. And we beat our heads against that
• 22:24
  S6: proverbial wall, and at some point we got to say, man,
• 22:27
  S6: you're on God's hook. I love you so much, but
• 22:30
  S6: I can't force you to the table. 22nd thought on that, Henry.
• 22:35
  S8: Well, you know, God has that same problem. He he
• 22:40
  S8: reaches out and reaches out and reaches out. And some
• 22:42
  S8: come to the table and some don't. But the door
• 22:46
  S8: is always open. And this estrangement thing that's happened, you know,
• 22:50
  S8: today in today's world with this, it seems to be generational.
• 22:55
  S8: Now you can always have the invitation. You know, the
• 22:59
  S8: the story of the prodigal, the father, he let him go.
• 23:03
  S8: He didn't go. Do what you want, but the door
• 23:06
  S8: is open. Yeah. And we need to keep that door open.
• 23:09
  S6: Uh, boom. Crew. I want to tell you something really
• 23:12
  S6: interesting here. So I'm walking through my living room, look
• 23:16
  S6: at my bride. I go, babe, what are you reading?
• 23:18
  S6: She goes, a book that's going to change my life.
• 23:21
  S6: I've had it forever. Said I thought I'd pull it
• 23:23
  S6: down and read it. You know what it is. Henry
• 23:25
  S6: changes the deal, and we got an old copy. I mean,
• 23:29
  S6: the original cover on this thing, it's old, but the
• 23:33
  S6: content is powerhouse. So boom crew, we're going to give
• 23:36
  S6: you a link here. And it's not just boundaries. And
• 23:39
  S6: by the way, business leaders of fortune 500 seconds and
• 23:42
  S6: all this, I want you to consider something. Henry does
• 23:46
  S6: not do counseling, but he does consulting because I guess
• 23:50
  S6: at this stage of your life, you want to have
• 23:51
  S6: your sphere of influence out there a little bit more.
• 23:53
  S6: But he's doing a great job, guys. And I'm telling you,
• 23:57
  S6: I did a week long intensive with him back in
• 23:59
  S6: the day. And it's not just this we think he's
• 24:03
  S6: in the boundary lane only right alley.
• 24:05
  S7: Right.
• 24:06
  S4: He's the author of 45 books. That one included.
• 24:10
  S6: Oh my goodness. 45. He must have carpal tunnel injury. Henry.
• 24:15
  S8: Well, I'm tired. I can say.
• 24:16
  S3: That.
• 24:18
  S6: Yeah. Check out my bride's favorite book of late. It's
• 24:21
  S6: called Changes That Heal. One link will get you there, right, Ali?
• 24:24
  S4: Yes. Just text cloud to 805 557898 for resources by
• 24:30
  S4: our guest Doctor Henry Cloud, just text cloud 805 557898.
• 24:36
  S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
• 24:40
  S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
• 24:44
  S1: curl and crew on Moody radio.
• 24:47
  S6: Allie's got a cool. DeVoe came in here this morning
• 24:50
  S6: and said, you ever heard this one before, Carl? And
• 24:52
  S6: I said, nope, I haven't heard of it.
• 24:54
  S4: I was surprised. It's a quote that I see posted
• 24:57
  S4: fairly often and it says, what if you woke up
• 25:00
  S4: this morning and had only the things you thanked God
• 25:03
  S4: for yesterday? What if you woke up this morning and
• 25:07
  S4: only had the things you thanked God for yesterday, commonly
• 25:11
  S4: attributed to Max Lucado, but that one gets you to
• 25:15
  S4: stop in your tracks a little bit.
• 25:17
  S3: Well, yeah.
• 25:17
  S6: Because, I mean, what if you. What if you didn't
• 25:20
  S6: thank God for any clothing? Now you got to get
• 25:22
  S6: on the horn with Amazon, like stat. I mean, uh oh.
• 25:26
  S6: No clothes, no home, no wife. You know, it's really
• 25:30
  S6: funny that you say that I've got to do this more,
• 25:33
  S6: but I just happened to grab my wife's feet last
• 25:36
  S6: night when I was going to bed. You might say. What? Uh,
• 25:38
  S6: she was kind of kicked back in, uh, kind of
• 25:43
  S6: lounge mode, reading a book in the living room, and
• 25:45
  S6: I just grabbed her feet and I said, I need
• 25:48
  S6: you to know I love you. And I am so
• 25:50
  S6: grateful for you and what you've been doing lately. No
• 25:53
  S6: details on that has so inspired me and I just
• 25:57
  S6: love you. She said, thanks, bub. And I went to bed.
• 26:00
  S6: So I thank God for my bride. Said she'd be
• 26:02
  S6: there in the morning.
• 26:04
  S4: That's good.
• 26:04
  S3: Good call.
• 26:06
  S4: But it's it's easy.
• 26:08
  S3: To.
• 26:08
  S4: To see how a whole day can pass.
• 26:11
  S6: Oh, man.
• 26:12
  S4: You know, the things that you have, you just kind
• 26:14
  S4: of expect that they're going to be there like.
• 26:17
  S6: Goodness it's convicting.
• 26:18
  S4: It is convicting. And that's I mean, but it's a
• 26:21
  S4: good conviction because, I mean, gratitude has become a very popular,
• 26:27
  S4: even a pop culture thing, like give thanks in all things,
• 26:30
  S4: give thanks, kind of stripping God all the way out
• 26:33
  S4: of it. But people are all about gratitude, gratitude journals, uh,
• 26:38
  S4: thankfulness quotes. Even secular psychologists will point to gratitude as
• 26:43
  S4: a part of a healing journey when you're struggling with things.
• 26:47
  S6: Is that kind of the counterpoint to the age of
• 26:49
  S6: rage that we live in, trying to balance things out?
• 26:52
  S6: Because that's what I'm feeling, man. I'm telling you, for
• 26:56
  S6: all the bullying talk that we had about playgrounds, now
• 26:59
  S6: I'm the more seasoned vet here, but playgrounds had bullying, right? Yes,
• 27:05
  S6: but I would honestly, guys, look, you don't want no
• 27:10
  S6: bullying is good. But this online stuff, I mean.
• 27:15
  S2: It's a different type of thing.
• 27:17
  S6: It is systemic epidemic. It's bad.
• 27:22
  S2: Yeah. Well, that's the thing about it is, uh, online bullying.
• 27:26
  S2: It reaches you wherever you're at. You can be sitting
• 27:29
  S2: in your bedroom, you know, getting attacked by people.
• 27:33
  S5: It's it's so harsh. And the irony of it is
• 27:36
  S5: this bullying is from the biggest cowards ever because they're
• 27:40
  S5: doing it online.
• 27:41
  S6: Sister.
• 27:42
  S5: Come on. It really is.
• 27:43
  S6: Yeah. Because you can.
• 27:44
  S3: Sit.
• 27:44
  S6: Back there.
• 27:45
  S5: Ever.
• 27:45
  S6: You can. How did I feel about this one, Ali?
• 27:49
  S3: Uh!
• 27:50
  S4: Emphatic. There's exclamation points flying everywhere.
• 27:54
  S2: Yeah, but I'm sorry.
• 27:55
  S6: Go ahead.
• 27:56
  S2: No no no. I think that the online stuff has
• 27:59
  S2: really taken our ability away to value human life and worth.
• 28:06
  S6: Uh, or it's revealed that we never did.
• 28:08
  S2: Or it's revealed that we never did, or it just
• 28:10
  S2: brings us to new depths of depravity in that. But
• 28:13
  S2: I think that there's, you know, not nearly as many
• 28:16
  S2: people bullied in person physically as bully online.
• 28:21
  S6: You are right about that.
• 28:22
  S2: No way. Because it just it separates all bit of
• 28:26
  S2: humanity from it. I'm just throwing this out there because
• 28:29
  S2: I don't see this person as a person. It's not good.
• 28:32
  S6: So back to Ali's point. The solution for this, and
• 28:35
  S6: it really is, I mean, because you might feel bullied
• 28:38
  S6: at work and it's like, how do I fight that? Well,
• 28:42
  S6: sometimes it's just having this gratitude that says, mm, boy,
• 28:47
  S6: God's at work in my life. Look at this stuff
• 28:49
  S6: he's provided. By the way, every good and perfect gift
• 28:51
  S6: comes down from above the father of lights, and there's
• 28:53
  S6: no shifting shadow with him. So whether we acknowledge it
• 28:57
  S6: or not, it's real. Did everyone just take a breath?
• 29:01
  S6: That's from God.
• 29:03
  S3: Yeah.
• 29:03
  S6: There's a lot to thank God for.
• 29:05
  S4: It's a simple exercise for you this morning. What is
• 29:08
  S4: something that comes to mind for you that maybe you've
• 29:11
  S4: taken for granted? You've not thanked God for this thing,
• 29:15
  S4: this person, this provision. In a while you want to
• 29:18
  S4: take a minute to do that today? Send us a
• 29:20
  S4: quick text. What are you thanking God for today that
• 29:23
  S4: you haven't in a while? 800 555, 78, 98.
• 29:28
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
• 29:32
  S4: Yeah. Responding to this, just this simple quote that's pretty
• 29:35
  S4: popular out there. What if you woke up this morning
• 29:37
  S4: and had only the things you thanked God for yesterday?
• 29:41
  S4: So what are you waking up thanking God for this morning?
• 29:44
  S4: My hubby of 40 years says 5731 also texted in
• 29:48
  S4: 2369 thankful for dialysis. Thankful for my life. Thank you
• 29:54
  S4: that through a lot of loss, God has given me
• 29:56
  S4: a peace that surpasses my understanding.
• 29:58
  S3: Wow.
• 29:59
  S4: Thankful for his grace. Thankful for another day with my
• 30:03
  S4: friend who has terminal cancer. Wow. Thankful for God's pursuing me.
• 30:09
  S4: Thankful for leadership. Thankful for the gift of eternal life.
• 30:15
  S3: Amen.
• 30:15
  S4: Thanking God for his presence.
• 30:18
  S6: Amen. Good stuff man. I love you, boom. Crew. Give
• 30:22
  S6: God praise today. What are you thanking for? You know,
• 30:25
  S6: I know some of you wake up with a scarcity mindset.
• 30:28
  S6: But what if you flip that around and looked at
• 30:30
  S6: all the things that God has poured out to you?
• 30:32
  S6: And there's so many, you know, there's gratitude journal thing,
• 30:36
  S6: that's a good exercise. If you're in a funk and
• 30:39
  S6: you've got a scarcity mindset, do a gratitude journal in
• 30:41
  S6: your brain. You can thank God for that steering wheel
• 30:44
  S6: in front of you that's attached to a car that's
• 30:46
  S6: actually going down the road.
• 30:48
  S4: And that's one of those God truths that people don't
• 30:51
  S4: realize is God truth, but it gets I mean, even
• 30:54
  S4: secular psychologists will point to gratitude as a as a
• 31:00
  S4: good healing or coping mechanism when people are going through
• 31:04
  S4: hard times.
• 31:05
  S3: Yeah.
• 31:06
  S4: All truth is God's truth.
• 31:07
  S3: Good stuff.
• 31:09
  S6: Okay, I want to do a little ear warning here.
• 31:12
  S6: I'm going to talk about spiritual warfare, and it might
• 31:15
  S6: be a little bit much for some. I'm not even
• 31:18
  S6: going to put an age category on it. Let me
• 31:20
  S6: just say I'm going to talk spiritual warfare here, uh,
• 31:24
  S6: in a way that may cause some questions. So you
• 31:29
  S6: be the judge parents. I'm going to jump in right now.
• 31:34
  S6: So I was prepping for, uh, a leadership meeting that
• 31:39
  S6: we had on Zoom last night with a bunch of
• 31:40
  S6: leaders from our church campuses. 180 Chicago here in Chicagoland.
• 31:45
  S6: Awesome people, man, love these folks. But one of the
• 31:49
  S6: things I was setting up is that, uh, let me
• 31:52
  S6: begin with the end in mind. So in Galatians three,
• 31:55
  S6: it says, who has bewitched you that, that you began
• 31:58
  S6: by the spirit? Why are you working out in the flesh?
• 32:01
  S6: And that word bewitched is not just some little neutral like,
• 32:05
  S6: who has deceived you. It's used for not demonic possession
• 32:11
  S6: or anything like that, but it's used in in the
• 32:13
  S6: sense of there is a spiritual force that has led
• 32:17
  S6: you into something that is incredibly destructive. You pair that
• 32:21
  S6: with chapter one man, why have you deserted God? I mean,
• 32:25
  S6: literally walked away from him because you twisted the gospel.
• 32:29
  S6: So we have to be not freaked out, but on alert, right?
• 32:33
  S3: Sure.
• 32:34
  S6: Now, we may underestimate the occult and spiritual things. I
• 32:41
  S6: was standing one time with my mom. I think I
• 32:44
  S6: was 14 years old in Kingsburg, California. Very skinny Hawaiian
• 32:50
  S6: little burg in. Let's see, where is that? Just, I
• 32:54
  S6: think south of Fresno. And it's where my grandparents went
• 32:59
  S6: when they retired. And they loved the Lord. But but
• 33:05
  S6: they had one vestige from the past, and it was
• 33:09
  S6: a three legged stool. And I'm standing in the living
• 33:11
  S6: room and my mom looks over and she goes, that
• 33:15
  S6: still freaks me out. She's pointing at this three legged
• 33:18
  S6: stool where there was a lamp on it. She said,
• 33:22
  S6: I don't know why my mom still has that. My grandma.
• 33:25
  S6: I said, well, what's going on? So this is why
• 33:28
  S6: there's a little ear warning here. Um, in the 1800s,
• 33:33
  S6: it was really popular. It was called table turning. And
• 33:37
  S6: they would take three legged stools and they would interlock
• 33:41
  S6: hands together. So they'd get four or 5 or 6
• 33:43
  S6: people around a stool, lay their hands on this, on
• 33:46
  S6: this three legged stool that was tall enough where they
• 33:50
  S6: could just bend down and touch it, and they would
• 33:53
  S6: begin asking it questions, its demonization, its equivalent of a
• 33:59
  S6: Ouija board or some kind of device like that, which,
• 34:03
  S6: by the way, are real. You got to be careful here, guys.
• 34:07
  S6: If you think that that kind of occultic activity was
• 34:11
  S6: exclusively used by Pharaoh when he was dueling Moses or dreaming,
• 34:16
  S6: this stuff is alive and well today. And so this
• 34:20
  S6: table turning was, as my mom went on to describe,
• 34:23
  S6: they would ask this table questions and the the dominant
• 34:28
  S6: reason that people use this in the 1800s, and it
• 34:31
  S6: was widespread in Europe, by the way, and it got
• 34:34
  S6: into Sweden. I did my research on this, guys, is
• 34:38
  S6: that there was a desire, would you believe, even on
• 34:41
  S6: the parts of some clergy, to communicate and to ask questions,
• 34:45
  S6: sometimes even with, quote, the dead? Pretty creepy, huh?
• 34:49
  S4: Very much.
• 34:50
  S3: So.
• 34:51
  S6: So they'd interlock hands, get them touching one another, spread fingers,
• 34:54
  S6: and then they would ask it questions. My mom was
• 34:58
  S6: there as a little girl in, I believe, Skokie, Illinois,
• 35:03
  S6: Where they first had this. They carried it out west,
• 35:07
  S6: and she was around this table because her grandpa told
• 35:11
  S6: her to do it. My great grandpa and this thing,
• 35:16
  S6: my mom said, Carl, I know this is going to
• 35:18
  S6: sound crazy, but this thing would get up on its
• 35:21
  S6: own energy after some time and start tapping like one
• 35:25
  S6: tap on a leg for yes, or 1 or 2
• 35:28
  S6: taps on another leg for no crazy stuff. And one
• 35:33
  S6: day it got out of control where it even scared
• 35:37
  S6: my great grandpa. And it started dancing on its own.
• 35:42
  S6: And I said, mom, come on. She goes, my mom's
• 35:45
  S6: not a liar, guys. My mom is a truth teller
• 35:47
  S6: to a fault. She'd tell the truth no matter what. Um.
• 35:55
  S6: I remember looking at that thing thinking, my goodness, get
• 35:58
  S6: that thing out of here. I told my mom. I said,
• 36:00
  S6: take it out back and burn it. She said grandma
• 36:02
  S6: would be so mad. So you look at stuff like
• 36:07
  S6: that and you go, well, that's just kind of archaic.
• 36:12
  S6: And it's not even for today. It is for today.
• 36:15
  S6: Did some research, a deep dive on this. There's five
• 36:18
  S6: categories of occult activity today in America. This first one
• 36:23
  S6: you'll resonate with big time Ali. And it's the quote,
• 36:28
  S6: the biggest one right now, spiritual but not religious. These
• 36:31
  S6: are people that are rejecting organized religion but still craving
• 36:35
  S6: spiritual experience, guidance and power. And it's not fringe anymore.
• 36:40
  S6: It's mainstream culture. Okay. Number two is astrology, tarot cards
• 36:46
  S6: and psychic guidance. This is like at a mass scale.
• 36:50
  S6: Estimates are 30% of U.S. adults consult astrology and fortune
• 36:56
  S6: tellers at least yearly. 30% of adults in the West.
• 37:01
  S6: That's in the United States. It's a growing industry, uh,
• 37:05
  S6: worth according to an AP news article, billions of dollars annually.
• 37:11
  S6: That's pretty amazing.
• 37:14
  S4: Wow.
• 37:14
  S6: Isn't that something?
• 37:15
  S3: Yeah.
• 37:16
  S6: Many say it's just for funds, but some do rely
• 37:20
  S6: on it for guidance. And then you've got, uh, this
• 37:24
  S6: term that we've heard a lot about. And this is
• 37:27
  S6: why we got to be careful with this term. This
• 37:29
  S6: is such a man centered demonic witchcraft, and it's called
• 37:33
  S6: manifestation and energy practices. We've Ali, you're big on this one.
• 37:38
  S6: You've you've seen that word manifest. We're going to manifest
• 37:41
  S6: this thing, right.
• 37:41
  S3: We're going to.
• 37:42
  S6: Think it into.
• 37:43
  S3: Being.
• 37:43
  S4: I've it's been interesting to see, um, certain trends and,
• 37:47
  S4: and a couple of those that you mentioned. I do
• 37:50
  S4: see a lot in, particularly in my generation and younger,
• 37:54
  S4: the idea of manifesting certain things or the energy you mentioned,
• 37:59
  S4: and I'm not going to get into that. No, I
• 38:02
  S4: certainly I stay far away from this stuff.
• 38:04
  S3: Yeah.
• 38:05
  S4: But hearing what people will has become pretty normalized. Yeah.
• 38:10
  S4: Things that people want to do to kind of bring
• 38:12
  S4: better energy to a space. And I, I, I think
• 38:15
  S4: that there's an idea that this stuff is pretty harmless.
• 38:19
  S6: It's not.
• 38:20
  S4: That, oh, that it could, you could just try it.
• 38:24
  S4: If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
• 38:26
  S3: Yeah, but.
• 38:26
  S6: Let's be practically theologically, if we're practical, we've got we've
• 38:31
  S6: got a domain of darkness and we've got a domain of.
• 38:34
  S3: Light. Yes.
• 38:35
  S6: So when we are getting into this self-actualization manifestation, all
• 38:41
  S6: this stuff, it's so counter to the gospel that Christ
• 38:44
  S6: in us is the hope of glory and all this, right?
• 38:47
  S4: Absolutely.
• 38:47
  S6: Yeah. We got to be very careful with that, because
• 38:50
  S6: even the Galatian church was said that there was a
• 38:54
  S6: dabbling in what we would consider now the occult, a
• 38:58
  S6: self-sustained faith. Okay, so we go on down a fourth
• 39:04
  S6: category in this one. Again, I said a little ear
• 39:07
  S6: warning here. Modern witchcraft and witch talk. Now, I didn't
• 39:12
  S6: even know this existed until.
• 39:13
  S3: I did my research.
• 39:14
  S4: Of.
• 39:15
  S3: This.
• 39:15
  S6: Millions of posts are currently out there with hashtags like
• 39:21
  S6: witch talk, pound sign, witchtok, and there are people that
• 39:25
  S6: are selling spells, protection rituals, love magic and energy cleansing.
• 39:32
  S6: And that's in quotes. And this this, according to my research,
• 39:37
  S6: is commercialised and normalised all over, all over the web.
• 39:46
  S6: You've also got occult aesthetics becoming culture crystals for protection.
• 39:51
  S6: Tara imagery in fashion. Zodiac identity. Identity Shaping personality. We
• 39:58
  S6: still hear a lot of that. I mean, that's good
• 40:00
  S6: old fashioned horoscope. And you know what month you were
• 40:03
  S6: born in? It just freaks me out. It's not scary.
• 40:08
  S6: It's just like, oh, boy, don't even go there. And
• 40:12
  S6: then it has. Why it's growing historically. And this is
• 40:16
  S6: consistent across cultures. These things rise when people feel uncertain
• 40:20
  S6: or out of control. Institutions lose trust and anxiety increases.
• 40:25
  S4: That makes sense. Yeah. I mean, it was amazing as
• 40:28
  S4: you were reading through that, how how many of these
• 40:31
  S4: things promised to offer some sort of protection, some sort
• 40:36
  S4: of predictability, direction, guidance?
• 40:40
  S3: Yeah.
• 40:42
  S6: I've got a linked article here. I'm not going to
• 40:44
  S6: give it to you. But Reuters produced an article that
• 40:46
  S6: even recent reporting shows spikes in mystical practices during unstable times.
• 40:51
  S6: That was a Reuters article.
• 40:55
  S4: What do you make of this as a as a pastor,
• 40:58
  S4: you sit back and you take in it's information. It's
• 41:01
  S4: certainly interesting. What do you see?
• 41:04
  S6: Yeah, let me tackle that coming up. What do I
• 41:06
  S6: see and what do we do? Great question. Hang on.
• 41:10
  S1: Celebrating the unstoppable gospel.
• 41:13
  S2: It's not that I've got to fill in these check boxes.
• 41:15
  S2: So he's okay with me, but it's that I get
• 41:17
  S2: to stand close to him so that I can experience
• 41:20
  S2: the life that he has for me.
• 41:22
  S1: You're listening to cast and crew.
• 41:25
  S6: All right. You asked me a question about this. We're
• 41:28
  S6: covering some ground on the occult and the prevalence of
• 41:31
  S6: occultic activity today in our culture. That's the result of
• 41:35
  S6: uncertain times, a lack of mooring in a relationship with God.
• 41:40
  S6: And your question for me, Ali, was.
• 41:42
  S4: Yeah, as you you read off some statistics, some trends,
• 41:46
  S4: some things that are certainly growing in culture and exposure.
• 41:50
  S4: What do you make of it? I mean, beyond just
• 41:52
  S4: the fact that it's interesting, maybe troubling concerning. What do
• 41:56
  S4: you say?
• 41:56
  S6: Number one, we should not be freaked out by this.
• 42:00
  S6: It's age old all the way back to Pharaoh and
• 42:03
  S6: and beyond and to this present day. So, number one,
• 42:07
  S6: we should not be afraid. The reality of darkness and
• 42:12
  S6: all the deeds done in darkness, uh, is is a
• 42:16
  S6: very real thing to this very moment. The added layer
• 42:20
  S6: to this is if you look at Galatians three, who
• 42:22
  S6: has bewitched you that term? That's not benign. It's not like, oh,
• 42:28
  S6: who talked you into something? It has very serious, uh,
• 42:31
  S6: unspiritual dark side undertones to it. Meaning that a man
• 42:36
  S6: centered gospel for transformation is foolishness. That's what the problem
• 42:41
  S6: was in Galatia. They had gone back to bootstrap in
• 42:44
  S6: their faith. And you know what that is? That's not
• 42:48
  S6: just neutral. That's relying on self. So sola fide faith
• 42:53
  S6: alone is got to be paramount. Here we got to
• 42:56
  S6: we got to be grounded there. But there's one other
• 42:58
  S6: thought I had, Ali, and I've shared this with the
• 43:01
  S6: leadership team last night because I was going through some
• 43:03
  S6: of these stats for a bigger reason. But the interesting
• 43:07
  S6: thing is I think we can tend to think, oh man,
• 43:11
  S6: I need to freak out and run from the world. No,
• 43:14
  S6: here's what's going on. People are on a search, and
• 43:18
  S6: there's some of these people that are on a search
• 43:20
  S6: that are God fearing people, and all they need is
• 43:23
  S6: someone to give them the truth and they will let
• 43:27
  S6: go of this. All they need is someone to say,
• 43:30
  S6: this is where life is found. I'll give you an
• 43:32
  S6: example of this. My bride was in a used bookstore,
• 43:35
  S6: and she saw four girls down an aisle of the occult,
• 43:39
  S6: and she heard them talking. And the buzzwords they were
• 43:42
  S6: using reminded her of her, uh, disturbed youth that God
• 43:46
  S6: set her free from where she was dabbling. She had
• 43:49
  S6: created her own religion in essence, and she felt prompted
• 43:53
  S6: to the spirit. And she walked up to these girls
• 43:55
  S6: and said, I'm sorry I could overhear you talking, and
• 43:58
  S6: I just need to, uh, if I could share my
• 44:00
  S6: heart with you. And they said, yeah. And she said,
• 44:04
  S6: where this stuff takes you is not good. It presents
• 44:07
  S6: itself as hope, but it's really destructive. And she shared
• 44:11
  S6: a few more things. And three of the three of
• 44:14
  S6: the girls are like, see, I told you so. We
• 44:18
  S6: shouldn't be down here. I told you this was no good.
• 44:21
  S6: And they all four walked out of the aisle as
• 44:23
  S6: quick as they could. And very appreciative of my bride
• 44:26
  S6: sharing that with them. Um, but we don't bash people
• 44:30
  S6: for this. We offer them hope in Christ Jesus because
• 44:33
  S6: there's some who are waiting for the gospel to be
• 44:36
  S6: delivered to them. And that's a powerful thing, right, guys?
• 44:39
  S4: It is because what as you said, it reveals hearts
• 44:43
  S4: that are searching. Yeah. So when we can lovingly present
• 44:46
  S4: people with the truth, We. We have to believe that
• 44:49
  S4: there's some people who will go. This is exactly what
• 44:51
  S4: I've been waiting to hear. I want certainty, I want
• 44:54
  S4: to have guidance and hope. I want to be able
• 44:57
  S4: to walk into my home and know that there's. That
• 44:59
  S4: this is a home of peace, not because I've done
• 45:02
  S4: some sort of ritual, but because the presence of God
• 45:05
  S4: dwells here.
• 45:06
  S3: Amen.
• 45:07
  S6: Amen.
• 45:08
  S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and
• 45:11
  S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
• 45:15
  S6: If there's one longing in my heart that I have.
• 45:18
  S6: Because I've been a part of two little mini awakenings,
• 45:20
  S6: as I've shared here before. One in a singles adult
• 45:23
  S6: ministry in little Rock, Arkansas, that grew to 500, wasn't
• 45:26
  S6: the number of 500 single adults that was cool enough,
• 45:29
  S6: but it was their fire for the gospel and their
• 45:32
  S6: love for God and each other, and their willingness to
• 45:34
  S6: confess shortcomings and sin. It's awesome. And then to see
• 45:38
  S6: that happen again in Alaska with a much larger group
• 45:41
  S6: of people in a church. It was cool when you
• 45:44
  S6: get a taste of it, boy, you want it. You
• 45:46
  S6: know what I mean, Ali?
• 45:47
  S3: Yeah.
• 45:48
  S4: And if you are a follower of Jesus Christ, you
• 45:51
  S4: have a desire to see an awakening, to see people
• 45:55
  S4: that you know, near and far come to love Jesus to,
• 45:59
  S4: for repentance, for culture to change.
• 46:03
  S3: Yeah.
• 46:04
  S6: Yeah. Anything but just plateauing. Uh, we got a man
• 46:07
  S6: here with us, Doctor Douglas Small, president, executive director of
• 46:11
  S6: prayer at the heart. And, uh, Douglas, man, you must
• 46:15
  S6: long for awakening as well, right, my man?
• 46:18
  S9: I think it's been a 30 year journey for me.
• 46:20
  S6: Well, tell us what's, um, what's it going to take?
• 46:23
  S6: Because we've been tackling this topic all week. I can't
• 46:27
  S6: change or we can't change because, and we got a
• 46:30
  S6: lot of reasons. We look at cultural slide, we look at, uh,
• 46:34
  S6: morality issues that we used to take for granted in
• 46:36
  S6: our country and they're gone. What's it going to take,
• 46:39
  S6: my man?
• 46:40
  S9: It's going to take about a tithe of the nation,
• 46:42
  S9: about 35 million to have a fresh encounter with Christ.
• 46:46
  S9: But that's too many. That's too big a domino. We
• 46:49
  S9: couldn't disciple that many, so we felt like the Lord
• 46:52
  S9: was calling us to. Start with a million. Get a
• 46:54
  S9: million people to begin to pray. We focus on symptoms.
• 46:58
  S9: But the real problem is that people who are. For
• 47:02
  S9: the drugs or human trafficking or something else, they don't
• 47:05
  S9: have a centering relationship with Jesus Christ. That's the great need,
• 47:11
  S9: massive numbers of people coming to Christ.
• 47:14
  S3: Yeah.
• 47:15
  S4: We have Doctor Douglas Small with us this morning. You
• 47:17
  S4: mentioned this is a 30 year journey for you. What
• 47:21
  S4: sparked in your heart this desire to see an awakening
• 47:25
  S4: and to work specifically on this effort?
• 47:28
  S9: Well, I got a call from a friend and I
• 47:30
  S9: was with another pastor in Yakima, Washington, a quite large church,
• 47:34
  S9: and they were talking about how the pastors were from
• 47:37
  S9: the city, were getting on a bus and going out
• 47:39
  S9: of town. And I, and I, and I scratched my
• 47:42
  S9: head and I said, well, there's only three churches of
• 47:45
  S9: this stripe in the city. He said, oh no, no, no.
• 47:47
  S9: He said, the Presbyterian pastor and the Episcopalian priest and
• 47:50
  S9: the and the Baptist and the Methodists and all of
• 47:53
  S9: us went away for four days and we did nothing
• 47:56
  S9: but pray for four days. And I just was I
• 47:59
  S9: my heart was on fire. And that was actually out
• 48:01
  S9: of Multnomah Bible College and seminary. And I became the
• 48:04
  S9: southeast representative for them in more than 100 cities. And
• 48:07
  S9: since then, I've just carried this desire for unity and
• 48:11
  S9: humility and spiritual awakening in the nation. And we've seen
• 48:15
  S9: it around the world in 700 communities. We've just not
• 48:19
  S9: seen it here.
• 48:20
  S6: Well, doctor, guess what? That northwest renewal movement, Terry Dirks,
• 48:24
  S6: Jo Aldridge, our dear, dear friends of mine. And so
• 48:26
  S6: you know those names because those guys back in the
• 48:28
  S6: day got that whole thing launched. And you know what?
• 48:31
  S6: That really did spark a revival in the northwest, didn't it?
• 48:35
  S9: It did. In fact, it touched 50,000 pastors across the nation.
• 48:38
  S9: And I traveled with Terry across the nation. and we
• 48:42
  S9: were together in Australia. I facilitated summits with Joe Aldridge,
• 48:47
  S9: and at the very heart of that was this desire
• 48:50
  S9: to bring spiritual renewal back to the life of the pastor,
• 48:55
  S9: to say to the pastor, your your center is not preaching.
• 48:58
  S9: Your center is your time with God. It's it's living
• 49:02
  S9: and preaching and doing everything else out of the presence
• 49:05
  S9: of God. And that really is what awakening is all about.
• 49:08
  S4: Let's talk about historically, the Great Awakenings. Give us just
• 49:12
  S4: a little brief overview.
• 49:14
  S9: We've had about 60 to 70 years. We're overdue for
• 49:17
  S9: one now. But you have in the in the late
• 49:20
  S9: 1600s for the Half-way covenant. These people could not qualify
• 49:25
  S9: to take communion. They were refused. And so rather than
• 49:29
  S9: leave the church, the pastor said to them, why don't
• 49:32
  S9: we make a halfway deal with you? You stay in
• 49:34
  S9: the church so we can at least get to your children.
• 49:36
  S9: That was the Half-way covenant, and it existed for 60
• 49:38
  S9: years in the church. It was spiritual malaise. The people
• 49:42
  S9: coming to America weren't the pilgrims. They weren't wasn't the
• 49:45
  S9: Puritans they were looking for to get rich quick and
• 49:47
  S9: go back to England. And after the Revolutionary War they did.
• 49:50
  S9: And Jonathan Edwards was stirred, and he began to preach
• 49:54
  S9: in 33, 34, 1700s, and there was a three year renewal.
• 50:00
  S9: And then Whitefield came in 397 trips he would made
• 50:04
  S9: from Boston to to Savannah. 80% of the colonists heard him.
• 50:09
  S9: They didn't know Washington. They didn't know Jefferson. They didn't
• 50:12
  S9: know any of those names, but they knew Whitefield. And
• 50:14
  S9: he challenged them. He would say, Father Abraham, do you
• 50:17
  S9: have any Anglicans in heaven, any Methodist, any, any Presbyterians
• 50:20
  S9: up there? No, we don't have any of those people
• 50:22
  S9: up here. Well, who do you have up there, Father Abraham? Christians.
• 50:26
  S9: And he would say, let us then be Christians. And
• 50:28
  S9: he raised the bar to make Christianity not a brand
• 50:34
  S9: of it, the common denominator. And out of that you get.
• 50:38
  S9: You get a thirst for a great awakening that gives
• 50:41
  S9: birth to the nation. Now we need one to save it.
• 50:44
  S6: I know you're partnered up with The Great Awakening, the movie,
• 50:46
  S6: and what blew my mind. I did not know the line.
• 50:49
  S6: The red thread of redemption between George Whitefield and Benjamin Franklin,
• 50:53
  S6: and what Benjamin Franklin spoke at the Constitutional Convention. Without
• 50:58
  S6: those words of Franklin, therefore, without the preaching of Whitefield,
• 51:02
  S6: we don't have a constitution. We flat out don't have one. Right, doc?
• 51:06
  S9: And what you see is Whitfield's. Despite the large crowds,
• 51:11
  S9: his determination to reach one man who could make a difference.
• 51:16
  S9: And the question we're asking is, who's your one? What
• 51:19
  S9: one person could you win to Christ? Who's a deist?
• 51:22
  S9: Who's who's in it only for the money? That's what
• 51:25
  S9: Franklin got in it. But in the end, his heart
• 51:27
  S9: had been changed and transformed. And that's the question we're asking.
• 51:31
  S9: Who is the most unlikely person on your list?
• 51:34
  S3: I love.
• 51:35
  S9: It. Yeah, exactly.
• 51:37
  S4: Doctor Douglas Small, president and executive director of prayer at
• 51:40
  S4: the heart. And you believe that you mentioned this 1
• 51:43
  S4: million Americans finding Christ or 1 million in the world
• 51:47
  S4: finding Christ. How can we be a part of this vision?
• 51:51
  S9: So go to prayer at the heart. Sign up, kick
• 51:54
  S9: the tires. Uh, look at the videos. Go through the
• 51:58
  S9: one day training, one hour training, evangelism as blessing. Put
• 52:03
  S9: away all your gospel bullets and find people who are
• 52:07
  S9: not churched and say, tell me your God's story and
• 52:10
  S9: let me tell you mine. And then tell him his.
• 52:12
  S6: Yeah, it's interesting too. We've been talking about this on air. Um,
• 52:17
  S6: this prevenient grace, the man of peace, the Lydia, the Cornelius,
• 52:22
  S6: the thief on the cross, the person, and even Jesus saying,
• 52:26
  S6: go to this town. Because some of my people are
• 52:28
  S6: there that I've already predestined to be born again. I
• 52:32
  S6: think we live among this massive unreached people group. Now
• 52:36
  S6: I'm telling our church on Sunday at a new members class.
• 52:39
  S6: I said, you know, somebody asked a question, do we
• 52:41
  S6: have a mission field? I said, we got three, one
• 52:42
  S6: in India, one in Burundi and one right here, because
• 52:45
  S6: there are so many lost people that live in that
• 52:47
  S6: high rise right behind us. I was looking in downtown.
• 52:51
  S6: My goodness, there's people that haven't had a fair shot
• 52:54
  S6: at the gospel. There could be an awakening right there,
• 52:56
  S6: couldn't it, doctor small.
• 52:57
  S9: Here's the deal. Only 2 to 8% of us are
• 53:00
  S9: sharing our faith. We've been intimidated by the culture. But
• 53:03
  S9: right now, 80% of the Gen Z generation is open
• 53:08
  S9: to an invitation to church or to faith by someone
• 53:12
  S9: that they see as authentic and real. We may not
• 53:15
  S9: be in a post-Christian moment. We may be in a
• 53:18
  S9: pre-Christian moment. Yes, a God sized vacuum that only Christ
• 53:24
  S9: can fill in the life of this new generation.
• 53:26
  S4: Wow. So this is already going on. 1 million Christians
• 53:30
  S4: praying for 1 million souls in America to surrender. Surrender
• 53:33
  S4: their lives to Jesus Christ. How have you gotten any
• 53:36
  S4: any reports so far? Do you know how many people
• 53:40
  S4: have committed to already be a part of this effort?
• 53:42
  S9: I saw this morning that that it was, uh, just
• 53:46
  S9: one of our partners had reached over 100, like 185,000
• 53:49
  S9: or so that were involved. And, and all of us
• 53:52
  S9: are recognizing how difficult it is to move people to
• 53:56
  S9: pray for lostness and to share their faith. And so
• 53:59
  S9: even if it takes the entire year to get to
• 54:01
  S9: our million, that will be twice as many as we're
• 54:05
  S9: seeing come to Christ with the efforts of all denominations
• 54:08
  S9: right now. Yeah, that will be a big domino.
• 54:11
  S6: Love that. Guys, we got a key word for you.
• 54:14
  S6: This is dynamite, man. Doctor Douglas Small has been our
• 54:17
  S6: guest here. We've got a heart for revival, a heart
• 54:19
  S6: for awakening. And you do too. So text the word
• 54:23
  S6: path to 805 five, five, 78, 98. One word path
• 54:28
  S6: to 805 five, five, 78, 98.