Latest / Stuff You Should Know / Plant Migration

Transcript

Plant Migration · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: should know that we're all melting.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Addition, Yeah, I'm just a migrating fern.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good one to be.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Blowing through of the forest looking for a new home. Sure,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: I'm a spore.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: What happens when you get their spore?
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll probably grow into a beautiful new fern because
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: ferns are pretty party.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: That's awesome, and I'll bet you'll contribute to society and
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: all sorts of beneficial ways that ferns that were already
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: there couldn't necessarily do.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I hope. So there is fern stuff in here, and
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I have a wonderful fern scene at my camp on
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: the other side of the feeder creek that goes into
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: the main creek. I call it. I even have a son.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: This is fern forest, and it's a forest of ferns.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Is quite lovely.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: God knows where they're from, because those things can travel
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: quite a bit, as we'll see.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they could be from Alabamy easily.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not kidding. Easily. Man, I've got a stat that's
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: gonna blow your mind in a second. Uh oh boy, Actually,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I'll just bust it out now, you ready? Yeah?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah? How far can a fern travel?
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: A fern can travel. The Tasmanian tree fern in particular,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: can send it spores five hundred to eight hundred kilometers.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: It's three hundred to five hundred miles from the mother plant.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And get this, a single frond a fraud produces more
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: than seven hundred and fifty million of those spores.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: So you can understand that ferns, I mean, you find
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: ferns everywhere. They're really hardy. They can actually survive cold,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: colder temperatures than you would think. They also thrive in
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: the tropics. They're like a really great pioneer plant. They
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: usually are among the first large plants that show up
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: in a newly cleared part of Earth. Right, this all
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: makes sense then, Okay, So what we're talking about then,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: is that those ferns that showed up in this new
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: place and said, hey, let's get this, let's get this
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: biosphere going again, let's get this biome back into shape
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: after this wildfire or something like that. Or there's like
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: a stampede because there was a really great ice cream
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: truck that drove through one of those two. Those ferns
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: have migrated. They came from Tasmania apparently all the way
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: to wherever the ice cream truck was. Right now they're there,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: and so they actually moved in that sense, which is
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: really surprising because plants are what are known as sessile organisms.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: They don't move from place to place individually as organisms,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: but as a species they can actually move around like inchworms.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Pretty good.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty cool. I didn't really know much about this.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: We're talking about plant migration and the idea, well not idea,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: the very real fact that just like humans and animals
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: will go to more hospitable climbs as the climate may
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: change or just i don't know, just to seek a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: better place to be, plants and trees and things on
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: mass do the same thing.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's all sorts of ways that they do
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: that too. So they do it by dispersing their seeds
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: or their spores in that case, fern spores or single
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: cell organisms. They're not like a seed technically, but they
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: do the same thing. Right. They show up in a
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: place and set up shop and they start rocking out.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And ferns, you know, it depends and
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: we'll get all into this stuff. But how fast this
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: happens depends on different factors. How far these plants can
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: migrate depends on different factors. Why this is happening is
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: generally climate change. Yeah, and plants are in trees, and
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: things are generally moving north or up in elevation if
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: they hit mountains.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Or south in the southern hemisphere exactly.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: So that's sort of the general pattern. And we mentioned
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: ferns because, like you said, those spores can really haul.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Ferns also mature very quickly, and you know, the wind
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: can just that's that's why I got a fern forest
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: at my camp probably.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So they check both of the boxes that you
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: need to be a fast migrating plant species. They produce
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: seeds or spores at a very young age, and their
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: seed or spore can travel very far distances, right right,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: so they can move around. And also it doesn't hurt that,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: like I said, ferns are adaptable. Trees and other plants
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: still move quite so fast. But they move, especially if
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: you look at the fossil record, a lot faster than
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: they actually should so if you pay attention to a
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: single organism saying oak, Those acorns don't travel terribly far.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: They may get a little further away from the drip
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: line if a squirrel happens to bury it somewhere and
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: a new oak tree grows.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I think it was Ander Samberg who described acorns as
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: solar powered factories for producing more oak trees.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Whoaa Andy Samberg said that?
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: No, Anders Sandberg. Oh, okay, he's a philosopher at Oxford.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: That makes a lot more sense.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Andy Samberg. He ate his lime accidentally in
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: his Corona bottle. That's that's what he's got.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: You knew he's married too.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Patricia Arquette. No Arquette, You've.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Been guessing Patricia Arkette for a lot of things. Slightly.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I feel like he's married to Yeah, I feel like
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: that's come up before.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know her name just rolls off the tone.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I know a big fan of hers. He is married
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: to what's her name, Joanna Newsom, the singer and harpist
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: oh Neatice. And if you like, if you're into architecture
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: and homes, you should seek out I don't know if
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: it's architectural digest or something. But someone did a spread
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: on their home and it is really something else.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that's Andy Samberg per Yeah.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: That would just checked a quick detour.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: U Wait wait I wasn't done.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Oh no, good, go ahead.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: So if you look in an individual tree, an oak tree,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: those acorns don't go particularly far away from the tree,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: as the old saying goes, But the fact that they
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: do fall away from the tree moons that very slowly
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: some of those seedlings are going to grow up a
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: little more northward or a little more southward. Then it's
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: mother plant, and very very slowly, the whole group of
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: oaks can move southward or northward right.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Over hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Of years so long. The thing is, if you look
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: at the fossil record, they moved way faster than they should.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: And there's actually a paradox that was named by a
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: guy named Clement.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Red right reads paradox.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got a great, great title for it.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Of rapid plant migration. That's the full title.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: It sounds almost like snake oil from the nineteenth century.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: So what is it?
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Oh? Okay, I didn't ever seen me up. We're still
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: tight after all these years.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: So what he found from the fossil record, like you
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: were talking about, and as we'll see that that's one,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: like you know, pretty good way to study this stuff,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: especially pollen fossils.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, because they're so hardy.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he saw that trees were migrating a lot
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: faster than like the rate that you would think, and
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: so he like those oaks I think was one example
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: you gave on the British Isles after the last glacial period,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: over a span of like ten thousand years or so,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: they traveled about six hundred miles and it would normally
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: take about a million years if the steeds, if the
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: seeds were just dispersed in a typical way. But what
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: he figured was that what may be happening here is
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: like some weird weather event happens that sent things much
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: farther than usual, or like some deer or something eats
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: something and then poops out something really far away from
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: where it started, and so all of a sudden, this
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: animal has spread it via their poo poo.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Right, And this is how like large scale migration happens,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: or I should say, rapid migration over long distances.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, it's the.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: It's the unusual, not just the acorn falling and hitting
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: the ground. It's not just gravity assisted. It's animal assisted,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: which is called zoochorey, or it's wind assisted, which is
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: called a nema corey, or water assisted, which is called hydrochory.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: And that's just the way that some plants dispersed their seeds.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: That's kind of on top of the normal way they
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: dispersed it, which is just dropping it from their leaves
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: or the spores blowing on the wind, which I guess
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: is one type of corey.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So like if a squirrel loaded up its mouthful
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: of things m h and somehow found its way into
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: your camper, as you said off for Arizona.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: That would be a freak event.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Sure it probably wouldn't be en mass, but you know,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: that's a way a dree coud move.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: All it takes is that one oak to make it
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: sure to just survive, and then it starts its own
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: new part of the range.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And we al should should point out when
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: when was redoing this. This is a while ago, like
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: one hundred plus years ago, right.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a geologist. I don't know if we said,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: but his reads Paradox of Rapid Plant Migration came out
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety nine and it was a smash hit.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so people, I mean for at least that long,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: science has been sort of curious about this, this migration
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: happening at a rate that they would not expect.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Right. The thing is is it's really hard when you
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: throw in that X factor to calculate how fast and
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: actual species can migrate. And there's a few ways that
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: you can study that kind of thing. One, as you said,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: is studying the fossil record, which is super helpful, but
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: it's not showing you what's going on contemporaneously or within
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: the last couple decades. This is ten thousand, a million
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: years ago something like that, right.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you wanted to study something a little
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: closer to home timeline wise, you would maybe set up
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: what's called a permanent vegetation plot, so you would mark
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: off an area and you would go back there, you know,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: every so often, like every six months or every year
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: or so, and just sort of chart what's happening. That's
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: one really good way. I think they've been doing this
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: for about one hundred years since in nineteen twenty, So
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: we've got a pretty good data set there. Something else
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: you could do is go somewhere, like, let's say you
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: dug up some cool scientific journal from a scientist from
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: you know, two hundred years ago that went and explored
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: some island, and while they may not have like charted
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: everything out exactly like you would in today's science, they
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: may have a really nice diary about all the plant
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: life there and things that they saw there and where
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: it might be. And you could go back to that
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: place and it's not quite as tight of a record,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: but you could still get a pretty good idea of
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: what's happening.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, depending on whose journal you're working from. And back.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: In twenty twelve, a Danish team of scientists followed the
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: record left by a nineteenth century geologist named Alexander von
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Humboldt from Germany, who was just an interesting dude in
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: and of himself. Yeah, he called coffee concentrated some beams.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: So he's that kind of guy.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Oh man, that's great.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: They went back to Chimborazo Volcano in Ecuador, which Humboldt
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: studied in detail, and not only did he study the
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: vegetation there and he classified all sorts of new plants
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: that Europeans didn't know about at that point. He also
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: noted exactly where they were on the mountain as far
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: as the elevation went.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Super helpful, super helpful.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: So based on this information, the twenty twelve Danes were
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: able to go back and recreate his trip, and then
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: they were able to note what plants were where, and
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: they found that everything, all species, on average, had moved
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: up the mountain by about an average of about five
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: hundred meters, which is significant. It's like almost a mile,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: it's like eight tenths of a mile.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the average. Yeah, there was a lot
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: of aeriation within that, but that's that's a long way
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: for sure. And what we found out, and I guess
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: this comes up a little later, but a plant can
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: find more hospitable climbs going up five hundred meters than
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: they might by going let's just say north, like ninety
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: to one hundred miles. Yes, so like a much quicker
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: road to better climbs if you just go up that
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: mountain for sure.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of two ways they move is longitudinally yeah,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: or altitudinally.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: You gotta be in shape though, Oh, for sure, you're
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: gonna climb that mountain. Should we take a break?
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I think we should. But just to wrap it up
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: real quick, there's a bunch of ways you can study
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: the movement of trees. But it's so slow and it
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: happens over such long timelines, longer than a human timeline,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that it's harder to do than you'd think. But we
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: still have figured out some ways to do it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: All Right, we'll be right back and we'll talk about
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: all this stuff in more detail.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Right for this.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: One other way we failed to mention. Probably would have
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: been better to just say that before the break, But again,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: still learning after sixteen years. Satellite images is another way
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that you can study on the short term. You know,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: the fossil pollen is much longer, and those plant plots
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: and things like that, vegetation plots our shorter term. But
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: satellite images can also help.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to catch like a venus fly
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: trap and the act of leap frogging over some other planet,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: satellite image is going to help you with that. Fossil
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: record won't show you that.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing with all this, though, it's not like
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk a lot about climate change because
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: that's what's spurring a lot of the movement right now.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: But the Earth's climate has changed a lot over the
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: you know, over the years, and this is not some
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: new thing. There used to be periods of time where
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the Sahara desert was quite green and there was grasses
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: growing there and tropical plants growing there, and elephants roaming
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: the Sahara and wildlife living there. And they've learned that
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: this is actually one of the things that helped move
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you know, humans around, Like humans could actually migrate through
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the Sahara with much more ease than they could before
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: during these green Sahara periods.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so fascinating that, you know, who knows when
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: we would have migrated out of Africa into Europe and
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the ages had the green Sahara not happened. And isn't
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: that just nuts?
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like hundreds of miles it says here that they
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: would find tropical plants growing where they shouldn't be, growing
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: alongside you know, the desert stuff that survived. So that
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: was this weird sort of mixed up biome for a time.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And the Green Sahara period there were a few
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: of them that had been documented, but they figured out
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: that they happened about every twenty three thousand years, right,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: We're due for one in about twelve thousand years something
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: like that. And it's based on the tilt in Earth's axis.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: That's neither here nor there. But the point is is
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: during these these periods where this was just a humid
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: kind of tropical forest, there was a mixture kind of
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: what you touched upon, of different like you said, a
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: hybrid biome of stuff that wouldn't necessarily live together under
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: normal circumstances, but got along just famously in the couple
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: thousand years that the Sahara was green and those plants
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: were growing together.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just amazing to think about.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: And then in North America we have another example too.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: After the Laurentide Glacier, which is way up in the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Arctic right now, used to be down in Indiana and
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: northern New Jersey. Yeah, and when it retreated, it took
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: everything with it. It took bowlers, it carved out lakes,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: it did all sorts of neat stuff. But what it
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: didn't leave behind was vegetation. So it left it was
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: like a giant ice cream truck basically. Yeah, it left
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: nothing behind, and it was just a great place for
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: plants to pioneer and colonie.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean that's why you have pine trees in
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: New Jersey, right.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I would think so, yeah, or in the south because
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: they were too far they were trapped below or yeah,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: below the Laurentide Glacier down in the southeast, even though
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: they normally would have been growing in the north, right,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: And as the glacier retreated, the climate changed in that area,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: and so the trees has moved on up. So that's
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: an example of migration as well.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh wait, I thought they but I thought they
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: were It was more hospitable in the south for these trees,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: and that migration sent them north. Yeah, that's what I said, right,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Oh okay maybe Yeah. The other thing we should talk
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: about as far as climate change goes, because, like I said,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: we're going to mention that a lot is the rate
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: of change of the climate is increasing, as most people
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: agree on, and that is kind of where we are
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: now in discussing this is like, is the rate of
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: climate increasing too fast for the plant migration to catch up,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: or in some cases are the plants migrating ahead of
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: that pace? And that's really sort of you know, a
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: lot of this episode is about this rate of change.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: In the two hundred years since the beginning of the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Industrial Age, no coincidence, the temperature of the Earth has
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: increased more than one degree. And again, yeah we all
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: know now that you know, one degree is like a huge,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: huge deal.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: It's one point eight degrees fahrenheit.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, But zero point three seven of that change
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: over the past two hundred years has come since twenty eleven.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So it's people. Have you know, someone has stepped on
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the gas here. Yeah, and it's happening much much faster,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: and seemingly in many cases, fasting faster than these plants
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: can catch up.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So plants are used to migrating, like they've been
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: migrating through our Earth's history, but these conditions are different.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: It's not like it was before. Even when the Earth
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: was heating up after the last Ice Age, I think,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: did you say that it took about an hour average
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: of fourteen hundred years to increase by one degree after
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: the last glacial period?
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: No, No, that was the setup. That would have been
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: very helpful.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Actually, I mean, think about it. So we've achieved one
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: degree in two hundred years, and after the last glacial
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: period ended the earth heated one degree every fourteen hundred years.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's called a rapid increase.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you said, somebody's put their foot on the gas,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: and that's somebody is Western industrialized nations, right.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: So that's one thing that's really kind of putting the
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: heat on plants literally is their southernmost ranges or their
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: northernmost ranges, depending on what I guess, they're equatorial pointing
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: ranges where it's hotter. Those are the ones that are
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: really at stake. So are those plants ranges big enough
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: that they'll be able to survive that change in climate
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: and just keep moving northward or are they going to
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: be outpaced by the movement of the climate because the
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: climate is racing towards the poles, just like the plants are.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So who's faster.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Well, it turns out if you talk about New England's trees,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: they move something I think red oaks is what it
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: was that this University of Vermont group was studying. They
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: move something like a tenth to three tenths of a
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: mile a year, right, Yeah. The climate is moving something
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: like four to six miles a year. So the climate
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: is really kind of showing up as kind of the
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Usain Bolt of this race. And I don't know the
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: plants are like me racing Usain Bolt.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that lab group in Vermont, they all have t
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: shirts that just say you do the math exactly. It's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: very smarty, but they get their point across for sure.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: There's another example of and you know, we've kind of
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: been talking about northern movement, which is generally the pattern,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: but not always. There's a rece Purdue name song Lend Fay.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I think Fay or Fhi. I don't know Fi. I
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: bet it's Fie who studied eighty six species of trees
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: in the eastern US over about thirty years from the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: mid eighties to twenty fifteen. And it depends on what
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: the tree is. Hardwoods, scarlet oaks, red maples, magnolias are
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: moving west at about one and a half kilometers a
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: year because the Midwest is becoming more wet and the
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: conditions are good for those trees to grow. Soft woods,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: shortleaf pines, red pines, bald cypress. They're actually moving north
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: about a kilometer of the year, a kilometer a year.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: So.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Different plants and trees are moving in different directions at
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: different rates.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very much akin to a neighborhood that's this
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: old settled in neighborhood with a bunch of mix of
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: people that's being gentrified. It's being pushed out and separated.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Not everybody, just the whole neighborhood doesn't just move. This
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: neighborhood breaks up and goes in different directions. And so
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: to ecologists in arborous like this is very concerning because
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: for a long time we've looked at groups of plants
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: as communities, like some some plants go with other plants,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: like I think was it beach and uh, hickory, where
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: is it?
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I like hickory, though.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: We can't we can't leave that in there. Oh yeah, hemlocks.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I knew it was an h. H. Tree. Beach and
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: hemlocks go together like peanut butter and chocolate, so to do,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: like firs and spruces. Right, So when you find one
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: of these, you usually find the other one. And there's
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: also a bunch of other plants that kind of interact,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and usually some types of animals that hang out in
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: those same types of forests. So if you've got the
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: hemlocks going north and the beach going west, Who are
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: the hemlocks going to mix with and who are the
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: beach going to mix with when they start to set
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: up these new communities, And that was really troubling to ecologists,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: but I think palinologists, these fossil pollen scientists have said
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: it's always been this way. Communities aren't permanent, they're kind
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: of instable. They just seem permanent to us because our
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: life years there are lifespans on the order of like
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: seventy eighty years, right right, This is it's a much
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: slower process, but it's a constantly changing turnover, so it's
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: not that big of a deal. But again, because of
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: the pace of climate change, when these hemlocks get further
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: north and the beach get further west, they're going to
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: have far less time to develop new connections and networks
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: with the new plants that they set up communities with.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the other thing too, you know earlier when
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I mentioned that a series of trees might move up
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: a mountain side because it's a way quicker way to
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: get to a more hospitable climate than moving that ninety
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: miles north. Yeah, when they and this happens in other
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: cases as well, it's not just like up a mountain side.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: But when they get to the place where they're going,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: it may be a better place, may be more hospitable
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: climate wise, but other things aren't so great. So if
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: you move up that mountain slope, let's say you have
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: a shallower soil, and so those trees move up there
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: because the climate's better. But then they get there and
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the soil is in as great, so they get squeezed
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: into where they can grow, maybe into like a tiny
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: little narrow band that's you know, potentially choking off the
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: rest of the forest.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've figured out it's kind of like hiding in
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: a closet during a house fire, Like you're going to
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: be safe in the short term, but in the long
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: term it's not a great strategy. But it's not like
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: the trees have any choice. They can't go back down.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: It's too hot there, they can't move further up. There's
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: the soils in hospitable, so they're trapped and they're eventually
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: going to become a thinner and thinner band until they
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: just pop out of existence.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: That's right. And the other thing that can happen when,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: like you said, when they get to a new place,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and they don't have enough time to make new friends.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden, that can open the window for
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: bad friends to show up. Yeah, and all of a sudden,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: invasive species are there, and then you've got a whole
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: other set of problems.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the ones that were like leather jackets with the
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: little silver studs on their shoulders, those are the ones
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: you gotta watch out for. Those plants.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: If this all seems very kind of on too long
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of a timeline for you to care, First of all,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: you probably don't care much about climate change because that's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the whole name of the game there. Sure, but maple
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: syrup is a good example that Livia found Lyvia helped
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: u out. She did great job with this. The maple tree.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Which species is that? The sugar maple is one of
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: the two main species that we use to get that
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: delicious maple syrup.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, this isn't a side. Sugar maple are two
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: beautiful words that form an even more beautiful.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: You are right on the money, my friend. You know,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: sugar maple. It just sounds nice coming out of my mouth. Yeah.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: They have been migrating north into Canada, and you might say, well,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: that's great Canada is a fine place to live, and
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they love their maple serve up there too.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: But in Quebec, the researchers have found that they're not
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: gonna go beyond their current range up there because they're
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: boreal forests up there. So the soil again, they the
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: climate might be better, but then they get up there
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: and the soil pH and the microbe content in the
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: soil is not what they're used to and not what
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: they work well with and grow well with. So they're
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: not doing well up there in the forest.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: No, No, And that's it's the exact same position as
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: the trees that are trying to go up the mountain
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: are running into. Eventually, these trees that are moving into
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the boreal forest areas, they're like they can't go any further,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Like they're not adapted to that.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Over a long enough timeline, yeah, maybe.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Those sugar maples could, like a few of them, could
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: land in the border royal forest and end up surviving
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: in that kind of soil and then they would be
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: adapted for and they'd start reproducing. And then as the
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: boreal forest moved closer to the Poles or the Arctic,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: those trees would move where the boreal forest used to be. Right,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: totally not a problem over a long enough time span. Again,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: climate change has so drastically shortened that timespan that there's
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: probably not going to be time for this, and those
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: sugar maples will just run into that boreal soil and
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: just they it'll be like hitting a brick wall for
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: their species.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, another issue that can happen. And I know this
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: all just seems like doomsday stuff, kind of is it?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Kind of this though, Let's say, like the Amazon episode
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: that we talked about, when trees are moving out there,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: they might be replaced by something and it may not
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: be an invasive species, but it may just be weeds
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: or grasses or something. Those aren't as good at capturing
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: carbon as those trees were, So then that accelerates the
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: problem even more.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Right, And then there's another if you want to keep
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: talking about these stay scenarios. Those boreal forests, they actually
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: are if you look at a map or if you
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: look at planet Earth from outer space, they're dark, which
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: means that they absorb more sunlight, more heat, more UV radiation.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Then the polar caps the ice that reflects it back
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: into space. So as those boreal forests advance further and
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: further north toward the toward the Arctic or the North Pole,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: and there's less and less ice to reflect that there's
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: more and more heat for them to trap, which is
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: just going to heat the earth that much faster. It's
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: a positive feedback loop that's super duper negative.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very negative. Maybe we should cover tropical things moving
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: north and then take a break.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I got some good stuff on that, man,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: I'm super exciting.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it goes both ways. So you can
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: have like tropical plants and tropical zones like Florida, where
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: you know, the earth is warming, so they can move
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: further and further north, and all of a sudden, these
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: plants that are native to tropical zones are ending up
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: in areas where it's you know, not necessarily a tropical zone.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I can't remember which zone Atlanta.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Is, Atlanta's seven B and aight a seven.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I love that you know that stuff. But the point
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: is like these these like kill kill frost that you
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: might get that happen to I love that name kill frost,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Like it'll get really cold and frost over and like
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: kill things. Maybe that shouldn't be there if that's happening
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: less and less, and there's even less in the way
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: of those tropical plants moving northward.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Right, and so I guess climatologists are expecting that by
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: the end of the century, which seems like a long
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: way away. But buddy, that's like less than that's like
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: eight decades, seventy something years, maybe even seventy seven you
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: could say to be exact, But in seventy seven years,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: climatologists expect all of Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Arizona and California, guessing the southern half to be tropical.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Those are subtropical. Now, if you want an example of
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: what a tropical country is, go to Ecuador, go to Guatemala.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Those are tropical, and Alabama and Arizona are going to
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: be like Guatemala by the end of the century. Yeah,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: that's insane.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I know, it's really and it's happening. It's not like
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: they've shown that it's currently happening.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it's happening because, like you were saying, those
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: extreme cold events are becoming rarer and they're becoming warmer.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: So the coldest day of the year is not as
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: cold as it used to be.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: In other words, I think the scientific term is kill Frost.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I love that. That is definitely a band name.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure, Mike. What are they though?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of heavy or something, right.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Remember Destroyer they were great, They didn't
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: really destroy They had like kind of like a belying name,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean?
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: No, that's true, so it could be like that. I
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: think he named the band that for that reason is
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: a bit of a tongue in cheek thing.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe I knew I liked that.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Kay, yeah, Beharts who we're talking about?
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Not Joy Tony.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: I know it's a Dan I think.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Right, I don't know. I just know a couple of
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Destroyer songs. I don't have to know the guy's life story,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: do I Well?
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Settle down? No, I wanted to look it up because
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: he is. He's also a part time member of maybe
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: my favorite all time band, the New Pornographers, like modern band.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, he's He's on most of their albums,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: but hasn't done the past few.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Who was the singer for New Pornographers? Was it Nico case.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Well, she sings and Carl Newman sings, and also the
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: great Catherine Calder, who is the stuff you should know listener.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Oh Nat, oh wow, Yeah, I.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Found that out and I was like, oh, I got
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: to get in touch with her, and I did, and
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: now we are email buddies. And on the last New
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Pornographer show in Atlanta, she's kind enough to meet me
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: behind the bus, as they say, in the back parking lot,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: and we chatted for a while and she's just wonderful.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: And she also gonna plug her other band because she
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: has put out a great album last year with her
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: band front person, So get front person. If you like
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: CYNTHI goodness and like a beautiful angelic voice, then get
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: front person.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Speaking of CYNTHI goodness, that's so funny you bring that up.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Just today I discovered an entirely new genre of music
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: called dungeon synth. Have you heard of it?
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: What? No?
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay. It's a really well named genre. But it
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: is synth super like cynthy synth, like eighties a synth.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: But the kind of synth that you would find is
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: like the score to a seventies hobbit, like cartoon movie,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: animated movie, it's super wizardy and fantasy. It just evokes
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. It does such a good job of it.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: But I've only heard one album. I can't remember whose
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: it was. But check out Frost. Checkout Dungeon Synth. Yeah,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Kill Frost is a Dungeon Synth band.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Nice work, all right, Dungeon Synth and the front Person album.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Their most recent Parade.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Is great, very nice. I think it time for a break.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take a break. We'll be back with more
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: album reviews right after.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: This, So, Chuck. One thing you can say about humans
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: is that we are action oriented. Sure, in a lot
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: of ways, I will give you that we sit around
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: in bicker and complain and moan and undermine one another.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: But when the chips are down, we can invent our
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: way out of a lot of problems. And invention doesn't
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: have to necessarily mean that we, you know, put some
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: metal on metal and made it go on its own.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: It can be something like inventing new areas for species
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: that are in danger of being lost to climate change
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: to settle and make another part of their range out of.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Well, sir, it sounds like you were talking about forest
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: assisted migration by God.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: I am that's right.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And that is basically and we'll talk about the good,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: the bad, and the ugly of this. That is human
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: being scientists getting involved in the ecosystem and nature and
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: spreading seed and sort of getting ahead of the pace
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: if the pace isn't where it should be to keep
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: up with climate change, saying well, let me give you
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: a little little help forward. And this can be kind
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: of thorny because it's it's humans, like I said, getting
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: involved in the ecosystem in ways that science has long said,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: let nature work it out, and that's the best way
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: to do it, because you don't know what can happen
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: once you start messing around.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like nature finds a way it does. These guys
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: are saying, the people who are in favor of this
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: are saying that made sense before July twenty twenty three,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: which is probably the hottest month in Earth's history, at
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: least as a kid far as since it cooled basically,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: and that followed the hottest June ever. Right, So they're
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: these ecologists that are like, no, we need to take
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: much more of an active hand in this, are saying,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: like it's our obligation to do something. Not doing any
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: thing is going to be more destructive. It's like saying like, yeah,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: we shouldn't move these people out of this house that's
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: being bulldozed over because we don't know what they're gonna
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: do in their new neighborhood. So we're just gonna stand
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: there and watch them die as the bulldozer crushes them
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: inside of their house. That's the that's a pretty good analogy.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: If I do congratulate myself here, it's very much akin
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: to that. And so those of colleges have a pretty
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: good point, like it's like, yeah, it's not a great,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: perfect solution, but it's way better than doing nothing.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But and they're not they're not doing it willy
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: nilly though. They're very aware of the potential pitfalls like
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: you know, spreading disease and introducing something to an area
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: that could be really bad for other things in that area.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: So they're not just out there, you know, with a
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: seed cannon blasting stuff all over the place, like like
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Dolph Lunderin or something wearing.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Bike coat shorts.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: There's a couple of different kinds though. There's there's forest
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: assistance migration. The one that's really sort of thorny is
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: assisted range expansion. So like, if you're spreading something within
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: the zone where it might still normally grow in like
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: two hundred years, that's one thing. If you're moving something
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: completely out of that range, like you know, they do
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: forecasting and stuff, and they're like, what might this area
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: look like one hundred miles from here one hundred years
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: from now? If they're moving something completely out of a
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: range that it would even potentially grow, that gets way
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: way trickier. And I think there's less of that happening.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Right, yes, for sure, Like, but you hit it on
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: the head. They're saying, like, Okay, by twenty one hundred,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: what is this area going to be, Like is it
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: going to be like where these red oaks like to
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: live now in twenty twenty three? And if so, maybe
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: we can give them a head start and hope that
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: some of them will survive and adapt and start colonizing there. Right, Yeah,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: it gets even prett clear than assisted range expansion. There's another,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: even more radical one called species rescue or assisted species migration,
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: and that is where you take a plant completely out
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: of its normal range, out of what you would even
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: predict would be its normal range, and just move it
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: somewhere it would never be right. This is considered the
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: riskiest of the three by ecologists because you can easily
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: take something that's totally innocuous and benign under normal circumstances
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: and make it into an invasive species when you move it.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: And the critics of this typically point to the Monterey
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Pine as a good example.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. It's endangered in California. It is native
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: to California, but they have introduced it in Australia and
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: it's it's well, I don't know about wreaking habit, but
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: it's damaging the It's an invasive species in Australia.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. They consider it a weed and where
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: they see it, they pluck it. They do not like
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: those in New South Wales and Victoria, I believe states.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Now that's a weed, right, I don't know.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: No, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I think you just you just came up with a
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: brand new type of accent. Frankly, Yeah, can we hear
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: it again? No, Okay, I'm just gonna go back and
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: replay it.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny though, is I use my the
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: lady on my phone that talks to me. What's it
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: called on Apple. I guess I don't use Siri, but
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I still have a voice for maps and stuff, and
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I use a I usually go between an Irish woman
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and a Kiwi A New Zealander. Oh yeah, and the
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: New Zealander says rye and it always cracks me up.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: That sounds like Matthew McConaughey.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: It does. At the next street, take a rye.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: I gotta hear that. Yeah, I didn't know you could
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: do something that. Gee whiz to an Apple iPhone make it.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Talk out, okay, some some regular old thing I don't do.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: I'd like sounds. Digital sounds are one of those. Like
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: I don't have mesophonia, but if I do, it's for
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: a digital sound. Like when I get a new computer,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: the first thing I do is turn off all sounds
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: on it. Like anything I have to go, Like I
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: have to change my text sound every month or so
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: because I'll just get like anxiety from it. I can't
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: stand text sounds, so I have to come up with
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: a new one. I do not like them.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I do is I record? I
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: record my own text and phone rings and stuff. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I record my voice like when my phone rings. I
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: never had my ringer on, but if it ever does,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: it's me going ring ring, ring, ring thoughts. And if
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I get a text, it's me going text.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Man, that's great.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get strange looks, but who cares?
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Can I just use yours?
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll say to you if you want, thank you? Yeah,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: or you can like you can make one specific for
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: you me, which is like maybe just her sweet voice
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: saying hello, hello, my love.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I used to have a ring tone with her singing
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: that part from What's Love Got to Do with It?
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: That?
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, but she just kept saying that over and
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: over again. It's pretty great.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'd love to hear that. It's also kind of maddening.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it never was. Actually, I never got sick
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: of that one. I think that says a lot.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: But it's better than deludoo doo.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man, you just stressed me out. Sorry you got
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: anything else?
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Uh? Now, I had a joke about your dislike of
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: digital sounds, but your love of craft work flies in
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: the face of that. But I won't even say it.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: That's more a statement than a joke.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is true.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: It's quite accurate. I think that's it. Chuck.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got nothing else. This is uh, this is
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: a good one. Look out, you know, if you're in
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: if you're in New Mexico and you see a palm
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: tree growing, then watch out.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: That's right. It means that you've gone tropical and you're
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: in trouble now.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not in a good way.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Uh. If you want to know more about plant migration,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of interesting stuff out there on the
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: internet to read and go do that and maybe go
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: become an ecologist and figure out how to save the planet.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Please and I agree.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Since Chuck's had agreed, it's time for a listener mail.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: This is from William Lloyd. We did a shorty on
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: the NATO phonetic alphabet, and what we didn't consider was this.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, being a pilot and prior Air Force, I
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: was glad that you did one on this topic. It's
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: not a correction. You guys did a good job, but
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: you missed what I think is the best part the numbers.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: The NATO alphabet is kind of a misnumber because it
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: actually also includes number zero through nine. But you can't
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: really make a word starting from a number, so it's
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: purely pronunciation. Most numbers are the same with a notable
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: exception of niner. We use niner instead of nine because
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: over garbled radio it sounds like five, but mainly because
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: NATO countries speak German nine No in German nice. Three
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: is pronounced tree to not be confused with the antiquated
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: prefix three. SR. Four is two syllable syllables rhymes with lower,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: so you'd say four sounds kind of funny to differentiate
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: it from you know, fo r and five is five
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: to keep the word fire distinct in some dialects. Huh,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: all right, this is good stuff. I feel dumb that
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: we miss that. That's all interesting, but you're probably thinking,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: does anyone actually say it like that? It depends. Niner
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: was pretty universal, plus we think it makes it sound cool,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: which it does. Of course. The rest are much less common,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: but depending where you are in the world and what
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: dialects are involved, they're useful from time to time. Signed
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Tailwinds Decker.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: That's awesome and also what a great nickname too. I
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: hope that's your nickname and your parents wouldn't actually name
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: you tail wings Well.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, Decker is the name Tailwinds was the.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Oh the sign of yeah. The cheers are the one
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: love exactly. So Decker's the first name.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know it just a Decker Decker maybe
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: a call sign.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Actually, all right, well I love that. Thanks a lot, Decker,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: much appreciated. I say Niner whenever the occasion arises, you know,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: You know, our our good friend, Joe Randazzo, formerly of
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: the Onion and at Midnight Fame, our our comedy writer friend.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: He signs his emails yours with a comma Joe Joe Endazzo.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: That's great, that's very well.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I think yours is. It's very very warn as is Joe.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Sure, that's perfect for.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Him and as always high to the kids. Yeah, Joe's kids.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: So listen.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Randazzos there listening. Family, the flying Randazzos. They're
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: trepeze artists. Family, just waiting will happen? They should be Well,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: we'll see a lot's gonna happen by the end of
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: the century apparently, so who knows.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Well, if you want to get in touch with this
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: like Decker did and confuse me with your sign off,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: I'd appreciate it. So with Chuck too, he loves that
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: kind of thing. You can wrap it up, spend it
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: on the bottom and send it off to stuff podcast
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.