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Pittsburgh vs The Refs · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to another uh episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: In this episode, we'll be covering Pittsburgh versus the refs.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna kind of let all our hate out and anger on those officials.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: As the uh uh we'll quote the uh English poet Alexander Pope.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: He once said to err is human, but to forgive is divine.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: But um I don't think Alexander Pope had many uh football games or baseball games on the line when he made that quote.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, hopefully going through this, we'll find a little uh catharsis and closure for ourselves on this because um I I know I'm pretty passionate.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: What do you as usual, Tim uh his hair uh co-hosting with me?
0:53
SPEAKER_01: What do you what do you think, Tim?
0:54
SPEAKER_01: You got some passionate opinions on these?
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and the refs are always wrong, unless, of course, you know, the call went in our favor.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Then they then they were 100% right.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: That's that's I like that logic.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: It works for me.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: All right.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, um, we'll start out with the uh with the egregious, I guess, against, and then we'll go to we kind of have overblown and then um four.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: We'll finish the ones that went in our favor.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: So it isn't all bad.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we're trying to be balanced here and recognize that sometimes we were the beneficiary of bad calls.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, yes.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, rarely.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Maybe once in a while, but um uh so first up in the against category is Coin Toss 1998, and everybody knows this one.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh game is uh versus Detroit on Thanksgiving, which the Steelers normally don't play on Thanksgiving that often.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: The game is tied going into overtime, so the Steelers are the visitors and they get to make the call.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: And uh at this time it was uh sudden death overtime.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: So Jerome Bettis calls tails.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Phil Luckett said the call was heads.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: Hilarity ensues because like you can see you can kind of hear him say tails, but like we'll get into that further.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: So what happens is the Detroit Lions get the ball.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Charlie Batch, who plays for the Lions at this time, actually, drives them in the field goal lane range and they kick the game-winning field goal.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, Luckett says he goes over in his explanation to Bill Cower and says that Bettis called a huh and then tails, therefore the call is heads.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: So, and this was also you when they flip the coin, you would call it in the air.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why they did they thought that was more fair to do it that way, but it is kind of like I guess just the way you know you've called like coin flips, right, Tim?
2:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, why do they do it in the air?
2:53
SPEAKER_01: Any reason why they do it in the air?
2:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: It's just well I I know it changed after this game.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they stopped doing it because of this.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: So you had to give your final answer before the coin was flipped.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, and the team that won the coin toss at that time won about 60% of the time the game.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, like we said, the NFL did change the rule.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: I actually think they changed it actually the next week, right?
3:18
SPEAKER_01: Or was it after the season?
3:19
SPEAKER_02: I think it might have been the next week, yeah.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, where you had to call it before you would just say the the ref would go to you and say, What is your call?
3:26
SPEAKER_01: And you would say heads, and they'd say, So it's heads, and be like, Yes, no give backs.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you've got to go go with that.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't think and also um they changed the overtime to not sudden death after poor Brett Favre got you know jobbed out of his Super Bowl by those Saints.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Such a shame.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: And it's led to more tied games, which I mean everybody loves a good tie.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: So uh the Steelers collapsed that year, so I'm not sure this coin toss did much except for speed up the collapse.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they they really just kind of fell apart that whole season after that.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that was just kind of the beginning.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh Phil Luckett, who was the official, um, he actually uh was the head official at a Vinatesta Verdi game where Tedavers Testaverdi, who played for the Jets at that time, was called in for a touchdown that cost Dedicks Erickson his job in Seattle.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: But that wasn't Luckett's fault because it was the head linesman's call.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: He just was the head referee.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Luckett was also the official at the Music City Miracle game between Buffalo and Tennessee, and he had the rule on a controversial lateral by Frank Wycheck to Kevin Dyson.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: So like he's kind of involved in like three incidents within what two or three seasons here.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: And I think like Phil just figured he had enough, so he was like, move me to back, Judge, like just hide me somewhere where no one will care.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, unfortunately, Fate was like really mad at Phil at that time.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Maybe didn't like you know offended the gods in some way.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: But there's a there's a Saints game where like they run a flea flicker and Phil gets he gets hit with the ball because he's like standing back where he should, and like they're like error was it Aaron Brooks, yeah, the quarterback for the Saints like whips it 30 yards and Joe Horn like literally can't get to the ball because Phil Luckett's in the way and it hits off Phil Luckett.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: So he was wide open on that play, if I remember correctly.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Like it was.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: He would have scored easily.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: I think it I think it's yeah, Joe Horn was wide open too, yeah.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: Tossed him a touchdown.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he had some really bad luck there.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: The Vinny Testaverdi call was probably one of the most egregious calls I've ever seen.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: He literally lands at the one-yard line.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: But that wasn't Phil's call.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: That he just was in charge when that happened.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: But he still he still kind of took the blame for it because he's like, oh, this guy again.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: He was the captain of the Titanic that was down asleep while his first mate was running the boat into the iceberg, is what happened, you know.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: But he still goes down with the ship like a good captain.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: But um, much like Captain Smith on the Titanic, Phil Lufkitt did retire from officiating in 2007.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, Jerome Bettis, after all that, said in an interview that he did say a sound because, and this is Jerome Bettis logic.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Um he called heads to start the game, and he did not want to call heads twice in one game.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he wanted to call tails, but he had for he started to say huh, but you know, maybe he was trying to say head tails, tailheads, maybe he was trying to call both at the same time.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: Bettis also stated that this got him fired from the coin toss by head coach Bill Cower.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: So that was the end of uh Jerome Bettis's uh coin toss calling career, at least in the NFL.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: So I don't I don't know if he did it at Notre Dame.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: He still made the Hall of Fame, so all's well that ends well for Jerome.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think even Phil Lockett's doing okay.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: So we have all this link.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: There all a lot of this stuff that would be uh references to there's a lot of links, like web sites and stuff that you can watch video on this.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: We'll have that on our website, which is Pittsburgh Sports Memories at Weebly.com.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Did I get it right?
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Weebly.com, yep.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hey, look at me.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: I I have like like a two years in and I finally learned a website.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: We this call, I think this call being on Thanksgiving, I mean, everybody saw it.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: It was like a Thanksgiving Day game.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: So that definitely amplified it.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: And it was just so like, how can you mess up the coin toss?
7:33
SPEAKER_02: But to your point, Steve, like they the Steelers were definitely on their way down that year.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: And even that game, they had collapsed to allow the Lions to send it over time, and then like they lost the coin toss, and then they let Detroit drive all the way down the field and kick the field goal.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: They didn't have to do that either.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: So it I don't know, it was bad.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: It was it was uh almost like comical, but I don't know that it was like you know, cost the Steelers that much, if that makes sense.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think too, like maybe I'll probably say this more than once in this episode is like half a life is what happens to you, the other half is how you react to it.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: So a little life lesson there, I guess.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, next on in our against category is uh Jerry Meals says it's safe.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: And this is this is pretty fun.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pirates, they have this great first half of the season on July 25th.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: The Pirates beat the Braves 3-1, and they go into a tie for first place in the NL Central, which is surprising because the Pirates had stunk for 19 years before that.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Normally by July 25th, it was like uh when do the Steelers start training camp?
8:42
SPEAKER_01: But uh so the Pirates play the next night, and the game goes on for 19 innings in Atlanta.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: So, and this is kind of weird that it's in Atlanta, too, because this is you know, obviously the Pirates have been success since they lost that one night in Atlanta in 1992.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: With the game still tied in the 19th inning, the Braves have a runner at third base, and that runner is Julio Lugo, and he he's at third, and he's running home on a on a tapper, like this relief pitcher called Scott Proctor, because they didn't have any players left because it was like the 19th inning, so they couldn't pinch hit for him.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: So he hits a tapper back to uh the Pirates pitcher's name was McCutcheon, and no, it wasn't Andrew.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: I think it was Daniel maybe.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: And he throws like a perfect throw to Michael McHenry, the catcher for the Pirates, and Michael McHenry, because they had changed the rules too, you couldn't block the plate anymore.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: He tags him on the leg.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: And I mean the ball was there probably like what 10 feet before Lugo was there, and he had like turned there and just kind of tagged him, but Jerry Meals just figured it's 2 a.m.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
9:53
SPEAKER_01: It's time to go home and you know go to bed.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: So he said, no, they're safe, game's over.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, in Jerry Meals's defense, he had called last call since it was close to 2 a.m.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: So the pirates knew the game was almost over.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh but the best part is when you watch the replays, that'll be you know around watch listen to Greg Brown's call.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: Is this he's like absolutely incredulous.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: He's like, he calls him safe.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: He's safe.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: It's like unbelievable.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's one of the more obvious wrong calls in sports.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: It's as bad as uh Don.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: There was a guy named Don Deneker in the 1985 World Series, but hey, the Cardinals got screwed on that one, so who cares about that?
10:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh and then the Don Deckinger play that you're talking about, that was like a split second.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he that was wrong.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: It was definitely wrong.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, it was literally like a guy playing first base.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Right, and he was only out by like maybe a half step, a step.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: This was out by like 10 feet.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: And that call was like the foot on the bag versus like the first baseman's foot on the bag, ball on the glove, other guy's foot on the bag.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: You're having to watch like three things at once.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: This was literally just like he came to the plate, there was no room, he got tagged, and the umpire's just like safe.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it it defied explanation.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, well, um Julio Lugo had an explanation.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: Here's his quote about the McHenry tag.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel the tag, Lugo said.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: He made the right call.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: I got in there.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: And I say that's the biggest whopper of a lie since I did not have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it it it's he I mean he like he makes like a sweeping motion, McHenry with a glove, and he kind of but he obviously like scrapes him on the leg.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Again, it it's just it may it made no sense.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: It just made no sense.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: And in in a vacuum, because again, it it was costly for the pirates, but in a vacuum, it it may just be the worst call I've ever seen.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: You know, it it it's not the worst call because there were there were other calls that that were more important to the moment than this one, but just out of sheer like take everything else off the table, just so obviously wrong.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: I yeah, I don't even know what else to say.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and that made like that was on like the Good Morning America shows the next day.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was also because I think this is the same season that um who was that pitcher for the Tigers?
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, he lost the perfect game, yeah.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I had his name in here.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: I but that was that was another, again, play at first base that was very close.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, the umpire got it wrong, and he even how bad he felt about getting it wrong.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: But but but the bang bang play, I feel like, is okay, that's human error.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: We're not all of us aren't perfect, that's gonna happen.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: This was literally like the guy came to the plate, the catcher was right there blocking him.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Did you ever see Steve?
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Do you ever see the naked gun?
12:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: There's there's a scene in there, like Leslie Nielsen's um impersonating the umpire, dressed up as the umpire.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: He's trying to stop the game from going to the seventh inning stretch.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: And there's a play where he like the catcher like jumps in front of the plate and the guy slides right into his like legs.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't even touch the plate.
13:14
SPEAKER_02: And Leslie Nielsen's like, save just because he's trying to keep the game going.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: And and it just it reminds me of that play.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's all I could think of when that happened was like Leslie Nielsen and Naked Gun.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, yeah, yeah.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, it led to a bunch of hilarious memes on the internet of Jerry Meals saying things are safe.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Like people are like, oh, here's some expired cottage cheese.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Let's see what Jerry Meals has to say.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: It's safe, you know.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, let's go like walk in the middle of traffic.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Jerry Meals says it's safe.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: So lots of fun with him on the internet, I guess.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Pirates, once again, it's not what you have done to you, it's what you how do you respond?
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, they respond like the Pirates always do.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: They go to have a major collapse, only winning 19 games the rest of the season.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: And they do so badly that they have their 19th consecutive losing season.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: So I I'm not sure why the Pirates, when they lose in Atlanta, it just causes major like you know problems like for a long term.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean this should have just been like a weird footnote to the season, and maybe they don't make the playoffs that year, but they at least should have probably broken the streak that year.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: So just a bad bad luck and a bad call.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, 19 innings is a long game.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to say about that.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: But it did lead.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: That's what end up that and that call with the Tigers game ended up the next season.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: Baseball went to replay, so some small condolences or constellation consolation for the Pirates.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: So next up, we're sticking on the theme of baseball, is the Chung-ho Gong slide.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to class, I mean it definitely went against the Pirates, but I I just this one really bothers me.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: So in a game on September 15th in 2015, with two men on and nobody out, Chung-o-Gong, who's playing shortstop, tries to turn a double play.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: And he's the victim of a takeout slide by Cubs player Chris Coughlin.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: Now, Chung-o-Gong was from uh Korea.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: He was a Korean baseball player, and he was kind of he'd been around a little while in Korea, but he was a pretty good player over there.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: And the Pirates, this is the first time they actually paid money to get a foreign player.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: And he had actually won NL Rookie of the Month in July, and so he had had a really good season, and but once he tore his MCL, he was out for the season, and he was one of the Pirates' best hitters that year.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, the Pirates still had one of the best uh seasons that they've had recently.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: They won 98 wins, but they lost to Jake Arrietta and the Cubs in that wildcard game.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Gee, maybe having another good hitter in the lineup would have helped.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: Um Kong ended up uh running into a bunch of legal troubles.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: He got three DUIs and lost his visa due to this.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: He was suspended until 2019 when he only got he only hit like 169 when he came back and he had 10 home runs.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: The Pirates got rid of him.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: And as of 2020, he's tried to go back to Korea to play baseball, but he's serving a one-year suspension due to those three DUIs.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: He never really recovered after the injury.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, in another like weird, we don't care when it's the Pirates, but we care when it's everybody else kind of move.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: The uh Major League Baseball changed the rule of all takeout slides in the offseason of that same year because once again, another incident happened, much like the Jerry Meals save call.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Chase Utley broke Ruben Tejada's leg in a playoff game.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, the difference between you know Coglin and Kong in this one was well, Ruben Tejada plays for the Mets.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: And you know, the Mets are a big market team with a lot of money, and we can't have them like, you know, getting unfairly, you know, hurt.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: You know, but when it's Chung Ho Gong and just the measly little pirates, who cares about them?
17:11
SPEAKER_01: They don't bring us no money.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh the best part was MLB made a statement on the matter when they were going to suspend Utley, but didn't.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh Major League Baseball dropped Utley's suspension on March 6th, 2016, with Chief Baseball Officer Joe Torrey stating there wasn't anything clear cut to say that that play violated a rule.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: And if you watch this slide in the gung, like Kuglin is nowhere near the base.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: Like he isn't sliding in the second, he is oversliding second.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: He literally tries to slide in the center field.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's so egregious and just intent to injure.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: And just like Joe Madden was like, oh, it's a good clean, hard baseball play.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: And this guy was just he didn't even try and talk to like Gong when Gong came back.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: It was just another reason I wish the Cubs never, and the Cubs are rewarded with a World Series through this.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: And it's just like I wish they go, I hope they go another 200 years and never win another World Series.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: I this is I never had a problem with the Cubs until the like this.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: It's just in Madden, what a what a what a piece of you know what he I don't have much respect for him either.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: But that was the thing I remember most about that play because this this happened in baseball for years.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: But when it happened, you're you're you're at least have the like dude.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: I was just trying to get to second base.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Like I was sliding into second base, you were standing there, and in this case, he like he didn't even aim for second base, he wasn't nowhere near second base.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: You just totally aim for the player.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was just it was just a total targeting, and then they just were like, Well, that's what happens.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he was sliding, it's like sliding into what?
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, that that too, they got rid of the neighborhood play, remember?
18:56
SPEAKER_01: The name they'd be like, Oh, you were in the neighborhood a second, we'll just call you out.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, that was to eliminate crap like this, you know, and then it's just it was just like you say, it was just annoying, and it didn't nobody cared.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Nobody's like, Oh, that's just baseball, that's just baseball.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I guess from Ruben Tojada, that just wasn't baseball anymore.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: And once again, I just totally, you know, baseball, like why baseball just keeps losing fans and stuff besides like all the other stuff that goes on is just crap like this.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: It's like you literally served the fan base four fan bases in the league.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: There's four fan bases that matter and everybody else you don't care about.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: So watch people tune it out more and more, I guess.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: And going back to your Brett Favre thing, I mean, they changed the overtime rules when Brett Favre didn't get the ball in overtime in the playoffs.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: But a few years earlier, when Tommy Maddox didn't get the ball against the Titans, no one no one even cared.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it wasn't even an issue.
19:55
SPEAKER_02: So it's just it's just it's interesting when things all of a sudden become an issue.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, only when they happen to certain teams.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: Now, that being said, we will have at least one item later on this list that actually does force a role change.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: So it's not universal, but definitely in this case, yeah, they could have cared less about the pirates.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: So uh moving on, the 1992 NLCS strike zone.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: And this is another thing we've kind of covered in other podcasts.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: So this is going back to that uh unfortunate night in October of 1992.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's the game seven of the 92 NLCS.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: Winner goes to the World Series, the loser goes home.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh John McSherry leaves the game in the second inning.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: He's the home plate empire.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: He has extreme dizziness.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh Randy Marsh moves from first base to behind home plate.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh the difference between Randy Marsh and John McSherry is John McSherry is liking to get the game over and calls more strikes.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: And uh Randy Marsh calls a smaller or tighter strike zone because I guess he wants to make it more difficult to hit.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Or I don't know, but whatever.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: He likes more offense.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: So you have one, two different strike zones is the problem.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: And it's okay when I guess it's the whole game, but this kind of well, although the second inning isn't that far into it, but so the what happens later in the game is a smaller strike zone does come into play in the ninth inning, and it leads to that pivotal walk by Damon Berryhill on pitches that might but have been called strikes if John McSherry's more liberal strike zone had been employed.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: And we've gone over this in our uh what was that, 20 of the uh the night the baseball died podcast much more in depth.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: Cabrera, of course, gets his hit and the rest is history.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Sid Bream slides in.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, there were other factors in this.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: I I'd like to put Jose Lean made an error that gave the the Braves an extra out.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Barry Bonds refusing to move and left.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Field when Andy Van Slyke told him to.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: Instead, he gave him the finger.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, how'd that work out for Barry there?
22:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh Stan Belinda poor he he he kind of lives on in infamy to this day.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: And um, but maybe if McSherry also, if he comes in and that guy Barry Hill still walks, maybe he calls Sim Bream out at that play on the bronze throw on the Bonds throw and the Pirates and Braves play extra innings.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: Could you imagine that?
22:27
SPEAKER_01: So there is kind of like a lot of different ways that could have gone, but um well, I think we've talked about that before, you know, how much of an impact that had in the game.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: But once again, you know, you gotta gotta play with the umpires you have, you know, you can't can't go back and change that.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: So maybe if Jose Lean doesn't make an error, maybe Barry Bonds is in the right spot, they get a they make it to the World Series and probably lose to Toronto, who was really good.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean to your point, Steve, about you know what you do with when whenever life gives you that bad bad luck, what you do with it.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: And and and like that wasn't even it wasn't like Randy Marks was making like these egregiously bad calls, it was just those he wasn't supposed to be there.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: Like that was not the umpire that they would have chosen for game seven of the NLCS.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: And like I said, McCary would have called Strikes Error, and like you said, even though it was early in the game, it was still a change that you had to adjust to.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: But it wasn't like necessarily the wrong call, it was just a a totally unfortunate set of events because McCarey was not in good health, and you know, it I don't know.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: I I just feel like it was more bad luck than like an awful, awful call, if that makes sense.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: Makes sense, makes sense.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll go back to football since we had a couple baseball ones there.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, the 2005 Troy interception versus the Colts.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: And this is a perfect example of life gives you a bad break, and you know what?
23:57
SPEAKER_01: You overcome it.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: And this is this is probably one of the reasons that like I just this is the one of my favorite Steeler games of all time.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers are playing the Colts.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: The Colts are the number one seed in the AFC playoffs.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: This game is in Indianapolis.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh, the Steelers have a lead late in the game and need to make a play as the Colts have cut the Steelers' lead down to 11 points.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: So Paul Malu makes a big interception to seal the win with 526 left in the game.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: As he catches the ball, he rolls around to the ground, and then as he stands up in the process of standing up, his knee, Paul Mallow's own knee knocks the ball out of his hand.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, after a lengthy review, and like literally like Dungey, it was just like one of those classic, like, let's just throw out a review.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: You never know.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, they like they do this in football, it seems all the time.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, let's just throw it out there.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: You never know which way it's gonna go.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: Which probably says more about the review process in the NFL than anything else.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: So referee Pete Morelli decides that it's not an interception.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: And I think is like I forget he's even definite, like when you watch the video and you hear him review what his decision is, it doesn't, it's nonsensical.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't make any sense what he's saying.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: He's like, as the player stood up, he knocked the ball out of his own hand, or something.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: It's it's odd.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: And it's just there's no reason he caught the ball, he controlled it, he rolled around on the ground, and when he was standing up, that so he survived the ground, even if and that that rule wasn't even in effect back then, even if it was under the other rule that they brought in later, it still would have qualified.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: So it's just no football reason for this to be overturned.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: And I've always thought to this day that like TV makes a like a lot of they just want to see games go down to the wire, and this was like five minutes left in the game, just would have been totally meaningless.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: The game would have been over at that point, and I just think TV said, nope, Peyton Manning's not losing the ball like that, you know.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: The best part is that like Joey Porter and uh them uh let's see, it leads to the insane ending of a Dallas Clark TD, a Joey Porter sack, a Jerome Bettis fumble, an immaculate tackle by Big Ben, and a field goal missed by an idiot kicker from Canada.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: So if they don't have that overturn of a call, all that other fun stuff never happens, and the NFL doesn't get tons of ratings, and we aren't really taught.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: We we probably me and Tim probably remember this game, but maybe like all the other millions of people that remember this game don't really remember it as fondly if it wasn't for that overturn.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: So isn't that ironic?
26:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was such a bad call, but like you said, if that never happens, then it's not the all-time never forget it in the rest of your life classic.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of weird.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I too, I think uh, doesn't the NHL now, if you do just like frivolous uh challenges, they penalize you for that.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Besides losing a timeout, I think you actually get a penalty or something.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: So maybe the NFL should go to something like that.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Like you lose possession of the ball or you get like a 15-yard personal foul penalty or something.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: But that that even wouldn't have mattered then because the Colts like Tony Dungey had nothing to lose at that point.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: Like, right, even if you penalize him 15 yards, who cares?
27:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, game's over either way.
27:21
SPEAKER_02: So he was gonna challenge that no matter what.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's on to the 1989 Oiler Snow game.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Tim, I will let you take it away on this one here.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this one's this one's one I remember real clearly, probably not one that a ton of Steelware fans remember, but I was at this game, and what had happened, so it it's late in the season.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: It's it's middle December, and the the AFC Central at that time had four teams.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: Cleveland and Houston have seven wins.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have six wins.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: It's an absolute log jam at the for the division for the for the playoffs.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: And now Pittsburgh and Houston are playing each other at the River Stadium, and Pittsburgh has a chance, which which it in this era the Steelers stunk, remember.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: So them beating the Oilers, overtaking them in the division was the that possibility was just huge.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: And I was so excited to go to this game because I had I had I was um a kid at the time I was maybe like 12 years old, and most of my time being a Steeler fan, I never saw the Steelers compete for anything.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: And this so probably at the time this was the biggest game I had ever seen in person, or period, or watched on TV.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: And it it it started snowing, which we were all excited about because Houston played in a dome, and they had this high-powered offense, and oh, there's snow on the field, they'll that'll slow them down, and it did.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: The game was tied 16 to 16 with like two minutes left.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: Warren Moon airs out a pass down the left sideline for Hayward Jeffries.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: He catches it, but one of his legs uh clearly comes down on the white paint.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: They call it a catch.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: They had instant replay back then, but it's really hard to see on the replay because they didn't have the high def TV, and because the fact that there's snow on the field, everything's white.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: Everything's white.
29:13
SPEAKER_02: The Oilers had um like white shoes and white socks, so Jeffrey's foot was white.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Everything was white, you couldn't really see it on the replay, but his foot was definitely out of bounds, and they called him inbounds.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: The Oilers end up getting the game-winning score, and um they they passed the Steelers in the division.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers appeared to be done at that point, they were six and seven, but they won their last um three games, and um they end up getting the last laugh here because they did make the playoffs.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: They had to go to Houston for the playoffs, but they beat Houston and Houston, as we've talked about in some previous episodes.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: But I just remember that being in the snow, and like he I don't know.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Again, it's hard to tell on the replay, but I I hate to say I was there and it was on my side of the field and I saw it.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: I I will to this day say he was way out of bounds.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh Oilers Jerry Glanville said, if we got away with one more than we deserved, I feel read real bad about that.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, not real bad, so Jerry Glanville.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, and this quote like maybe like really get some respect for Chuck Knoll.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: However, Chuck Knoll refused to blame the loss on the extra timeout, or the I guess they gave Houston an extra timeout or Jeffrey's catch, but rather the Steelers' inability to score in close-yarded situations.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: They twice had first downs inside the Oilers' three-yard line, only come away with two chip-shot Gary Anderson field goals.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: We had four scores and they had three scores, but we didn't get quality scores.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: We got field goals instead of touchdowns.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: You have to when you have the opportunity to put the ball in the end zone, you've got to put it in.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: I just like the accountability from Chuck Knoll, and maybe that's why.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: Let's see, Chuck Knoll has four Super Bowls.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: How many Super Bowls has Jerry Glanville even been in?
31:00
SPEAKER_01: That would be not yeah, exactly.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: So and like you said, the Steelers did get the last laugh beating the Oilers, and Chuck Knowle got to tell off Jerry Glanville at like during a handshake once.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: So it was a good time was had by all, I guess.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's that is one thing about bad calls is that sometimes um yeah, sometimes they end up making a difference at the end of the game.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: But then you can also say that that if you had done uh the things right earlier in the game, that would have been inconsequential.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: Um moving on to uh overcoming the calls, is I guess it's kind of stay in the overcoming the calls category.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: 13-9 holding calls.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt is playing the number two WVU in Morgantown.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: This is their football team, the Mountaineers.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: Pitt football is a 28 and a half point underdog.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: WV is ranked number two in the country, and if they win, they will play for the uh for a berth in the BCS game for a shot at the national title title.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: At that time, this is probably the biggest game in WV football history, and a big game for the Big East Conference in general, and that was the because the Big East Conference was considered a basketball conference and was lightly regarded in football, and plus like the big uh Miami, who was their big you know, torch bearer at that time, was leaving for the ACC along with Virginia Tech and Boston College.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: So with so uh the Big East really wanted like WVU to kind of like be the new, oh, they're the new face of the league.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: So with Pitt leading 10-7 in the third quarter, it's third and five from the WVU 13.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: Pitt running back LaShawn McCoy makes a sweet move on the WVU defender Antonio Lewis and scores a TD that would have made the Pitt lead 17-7.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: But wait, there is a laid holding call on O'Derrick Turner that is questionable at best.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: And I mean it's really questionable.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Like both the announcers were definitely questioning that.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: And uh Dave Wands that had like crutches at the time, almost like broke his crutches, throwing them on the ground.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's also another holding call later in the game, I think against Turner again that wipes out a big first down.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: And there was a ridiculous like personal foul call against Eric Thatcher.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: Like he just literally like pumped his fist or something, he didn't get in anybody's face or anything.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: It was just the officials were just out of hand.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Even the announcer, Mike Patrick, who is a WVU native, so like he's hardly like one to be biased towards Pitt.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: He he questions the calls.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, another fun like little internet meme thing that happened was uh someone edited the calls from the game with the scene from the Remember the Titans where like uh oh what was the name of the actor in that?
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can't remember his name, but he goes, I'll go down to the pay, I'll go to the papers and bring all the refs down.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: You mean I don't care, you know?
34:03
SPEAKER_01: Because like I guess the refs were sticking it to like Denzel Washington and him, you know, in that game.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: So it was uh pretty interesting.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh it just keeps WVU in the game, but uh Pitt, like I said, they overcome all that and they still beat WVU and the Big East officials.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: And uh it's it's 13 to 9 as your final score.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: And the whole ironic part of this is it probably dooms the Big East conference for football.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, Pitt war Pitt decides to like find itself and pull an upset at absolutely probably the worst time ever.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, maybe if WVU wins this game, we're everybody still in the Big East.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: So probably not.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we we did a whole episode about the 13-9 game.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: Um and I I I said at the time, I'll say it again.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: All I remember about that season was was Steve, you getting all upset.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: There was there was a lot of calls that went against Pitt that year.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: And you were just you were just on you were totally in like, oh, they don't want Pitt to win mode.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: And and and I just remember like that whole season, I'm like, yeah, I mean, there's bad calls that go against everybody, Steve.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't think they're just out to get pit.
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Like, let's let's let's not be homers.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: Like, I just remember like trying to talk you off the ledge that whole season.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: Then when that game happened, I was like, oh my god, Steve was right.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, Steve was right.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: The whole like I mean, it was just so egregious, and it was so um, and I don't know about the whole season, but that game was important to the biggest.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: We we went through it in our again, go listen to that episode because there was so much fallout over that game, and you could make the argument, you really could make the argument that that game destroyed the Big East conference, and if WV had won, it it might have it might still be going today.
35:53
SPEAKER_02: You could make that argument, and for that reason, I really do think they w needed WVU to win.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: And when you look at the replay, some of those calls, how late the flags were, you can't help but just wonder.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, it didn't matter, and Mike Tranghese's in officials.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, who Mike Tranghisi's been what retired for years now, I'm sure he's sitting on his mountain of Big East cash somewhere, so the Big East still has a winning football bowl record against the SEC, so that'll never go away.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: So um on to uh another team that we really don't talk much about, but for all you Penn State fans, here it is, we're we're gonna we're gonna talk about your favorite team.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: And I'm probably gonna enjoy this way more than I really should.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: So Shoyden Frada, thy name is Steve, I guess, today.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: And that is taking pleasure in the suffering of others, which I am going to right now.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: So this is called Michigan Gets an Extra Two Seconds Against Penn State.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: Halfway through the season, Penn State is undefeated and ranked number eight at the time.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: They're playing Michigan, who has three losses but is no longer ranked after a loss to Minnesota the week before.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: And that was the Minnesota Golden Gophers, not the Minnesota Vikings.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: So that was a pretty pretty bad way to lose there.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: So the game goes into the fourth quarter, and with 53 seconds to go, and Penn State up 25 to 21, Michigan is mounting a desperation drive.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: Chad Henney completes a pass, and the receiver gets tackled in bounds, and Michigan calls a timeout.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: But what happened was, I guess, like in between the player being called down and then being granted the timeout, a couple seconds had run off the clock.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: So Michigan since there's a timeout, Michigan head coach Lloyd Card argues with the officials during the timeout and actually talks them in.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Now this is in Ann Arbor, so this is in Michigan.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: He talks them into putting two seconds back on the clock.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: And the official said, Oh, we didn't stop the clock quick enough.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, just because he's Lloyd Carr and it's Michigan and reasons, they the Michigan now has 30 seconds instead of 28.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: The Joe Paterno quote about adding time for Michigan, they said they were putting two seconds back on the clock.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: And Paterno, whose team outgained Michigan but missed two field goals, said, ah baloney, and then walked away from me.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: So that was Joe Paterno's thoughts on the game.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: And that uh where's my uh oval teen or cream of weed or whatever?
38:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: But so he walked away from me.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: Right now, all I am is angry.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: That's what Joe Paterno was.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: He was just, you know, the bee's knees.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: But uh so it's no big deal.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: What can you do in two seconds anyway?
38:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, except Michigan scores later in the drive on fourth and four.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: With how much time do you think was left on the clock on that fourth down play, Tim?
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Two seconds.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: Yay! Oops.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: So uh it's Mario Manningham with the catch for the game winner.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that's probably like his most favorite uh famous catch, right?
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, he made one in the Super Bowl a couple years later.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: But uh but uh the Penn State defender on the play, which I still laugh about this to this day.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, because I used to have this on my DVR.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm such a like horrible person that I I recorded the end of this game on my DVR that I got rid of a couple years ago.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: I I that was the only thing I had a D VR in my basement for years, and I finally had to get rid of it because it just didn't work anymore.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: But uh he was guarding the eye in the Michigan, like you know how Michigan has in their end zone like their name written out, and like he literally just stood on the eye and let Mario Manningham like run by him.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like, what did you think?
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Like the eye was gonna score.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: I know you might want to guard that guy catching the ball, yeah.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh the best part is it ruins Penn State's season.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess the worst part if you're a Penn State fan.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh they finished with one loss and they actually uh third in the national rankings, so they didn't get a national championship that year.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: But um, I mean a good time was had by all, and uh, you know, Penn State uh got got one, got kind of stuck to them there in Michigan.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: Maybe don't join a big conference where the only two teams that matter would be Ohio State and Michigan.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Hey Pitt, if you're listening, don't do the same thing where Florida State and Clemson are really the only two teams that matter.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Or if you're in basketball Duke of North Carolina.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, moving on, moving on with that.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: That's enough for the uh I hope you Penn State fans enjoyed that moment of Pittsburgh Sports Memories podcast.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: Couldn't happen to a nicer team.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: So um another going back to baseball, uh paying over slot in the Major League Baseball draft.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: The Pirates, uh to their credit, finally get smart and they find a loophole in the baseball draft system by vastly overpaying eight-year-old prospects like in 2011 Josh Bell.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Josh Bell was, I'm going to play for the University of Texas.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, the Pirates said, How about we select you in the second round of the Major League Baseball Draft and pay you like a cool five mil?
41:24
SPEAKER_01: You can you can send you and anybody else you want to know to the University of Texas.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: And he says, you know what?
41:31
SPEAKER_01: The eyes of the Texas are not upon me.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to play baseball.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: So it was a great move by the Pirates because when he would become eligible for arbitration, if like let's say he was really good, like I don't know, Garrett Cole, when the Yankees decided they wanted to sign him for like their billions of dollars, guess who makes back all the money that you just spent in overpaying in slot?
41:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, you do because of the luxury hacks.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: So that really was bad for the Yankees and really good for the Pirates.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: And so, as of our previous conversation, like with Chung-Ho Gong, uh, what when something is bad for the Yankees and good for the Pirates, what do you think the baseball does?
42:11
SPEAKER_01: Rule fairly?
42:13
SPEAKER_01: No, no, we'll have none of that.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: So the very next year, uh baseball decides that they're going to have a salary cap, but it'll only be on rookies.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: So they're good.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: So they basically put a salary cap on the small market teams, but none on the large market teams.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: It's the I mean, what a well-run sport.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Who wouldn't want to watch this wonderful sport of baseball where you either strike out or hit a home run?
42:40
SPEAKER_01: Games last seven hours, and the only teams that matter are either in Los Angeles or New York or Boston.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Yay, me, sign me up.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Even the English Premier League or the Spanish La Liga isn't obviously rigged like this for the big teams.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: It's just it's a complete joke.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Baseball's a joke.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: That's why, like, it just every year it loses more and more fans, and good for them.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: At some point, I hope it's just you know three teams playing there.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: You left out the decades of uh drug abuse and performance enhancing drugs that nobody felt was a big enough problem to do anything about.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh fun time, fun times were all.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: So staying on the theme of like leagues changing the rules just because they didn't like what like one team, we'll go to the 1978 pass interference rule change by the NFL.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: So in 1978, prior to this season, the Steelers had won two Super Bowls, and they had done that with a bruising running running game and a great bruising defense.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: So to cut all of this, the NFL in general, and one coach in particular, who may have had a team in Florida at that time, decide to stick it to those pesky Steelers.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: So John.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Don Shula and some of the other offensive-minded coaches in the league, they get together and they they voted on changing the pass interference rules.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: And they changed it to where you you had the five-yard, you could only before then you could hit a guy up and down, a receiver up and down the field anywhere.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: They moved it to where you could only do it within the first five yards, and also they made it to where the offensive line could hold, basically.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: They they like I think before you had to keep your arms like inside your body, and then after that, you could kind of grab onto a guy.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: So they basically legalized holding.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: So uh Shula's quote was for the receiver, it means freedom to run his pattern.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: It would also force the defensive team to commit itself sooner, and this will give the quarterback a better chance to read the type of defense faster, as long as that quarterback isn't David Woodley.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: If the quarterback wants to get in a bump at the wide receiver, it will have to come up far enough to do it within the yards.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: If he hangs back, he gets no bump at all.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Either way, the quarterback has a better chance to pick it up.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: When you combine that with the liberalized holding for better pass, he literally says the word holding here for better pass protection.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: You increase the chances of completing passes.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, Don Sheila figures that's the end of the Steelers.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: We won't hear from them for another 40 years, they'll go back to stinking.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, Coach Chuck Knoll, who like I totally gained a lot more respect doing research for this, and he just adjusted like all great coaches do.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: So Chuck Knoll and the rule change the rule change upset Coach Knowle, who years later said of the teams who supported the change, they ganged up on us the way they legislated the rules.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: People were trying to win a championship through legislation.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't think you do that.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: But whatever the rules are, you have to adjust to them and play with them.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: When they changed the rules, Terry took advantage and got in his passing game blossomed.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: And all that happened to Mel Blunt is he got more interceptions.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: Can you say total backfire by Don Shula?
46:08
SPEAKER_01: As that season, the Steelers adjusted and beat the Cowboys in a high scoring Super Bowl 35 to 31.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: And conversely, in 1978, after the rules changed, the Dolphins made the playoffs, but they lost to Houston only scoring nine points.
46:22
SPEAKER_01: I guess they didn't call enough pass interference calls for Don Shula in Don Stroker.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't think even Wolf Woodley was there yet.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: That was so long ago.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, by comparison, Shula only went to one more Super Bowl in his whole career after that rule change, and he never won a championship after the rule change in 1978.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Steelers and Coach Noel went on to win two more Super Bowls after the 1978 rule change.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think in those meetings also, um I heard this that other rule changes that were proposed but rejected were to have Terry Bradshaw play blindfolded.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh while playing defense, have Donnie Shell and Maul Blunt have their legs tied together like a three-legged race.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: And also uh Hall of Fame defensive lineman mean Joe Green would have to count to five Mississippi before rushing the quarterback like a backyard football.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: But um uh in their wisdom, I guess they they just that would that would have just been too much.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: But uh that would have been just too obvious.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean it's you didn't count the Mississippi.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, could you imagine that going?
47:31
SPEAKER_02: Well only for Mississippi, five yards on the defense.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: It it it I think when everybody um the 78 Steelers are often talked about as one of the greatest teams of all time.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know that that's always mentioned when when people are talking about why they're the greatest team of all time or one of the greatest teams.
47:50
SPEAKER_02: Like they literally changed the roles because the Steelers were too good.
47:54
SPEAKER_02: And then the Steelers won two Super Bowls.
47:57
SPEAKER_02: Like that was literal like that's literally what happened.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: Like they changed the roles to make this like no, the Steelers are just way too dominant, their defense is too good, and then they win two more Super Bowls.
48:08
SPEAKER_02: And they, by the way, Steve, they they played Miami the in the playoffs in 79, and they beat them, I think, pretty handily, if I remember.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I didn't look I just looked up the 78 stats because I wanted to get like a one-to-one.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: I didn't look besides I knew that Shula had only gone to one Super Bowl with Merino, and so finally he gets his quarterback and then he neglects his defense.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, great coaching job there, Don.
48:33
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they should have made a rule where everybody has to eat Lit Shula's steakhouse before the game.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that would have helped him out.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: But that's enough, Don Shula hate for this podcast.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't hate Don Shula, it's just it that was just annoying.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: It was just beneath him, really.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: He he probably was a much better coach than that.
48:54
SPEAKER_01: Um now on to the you know, get ready for my blood pressure to go up and me really get irritated if I haven't been irritated enough.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Jesse James.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: Do I need to catch no catch after that?
49:08
SPEAKER_01: So Jesse James was not a bank train robber from the 19th century.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: He also was a tight end for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: So going into this was a this game was a showdown of the top two teams in the AFC that year, New England and Pittsburgh.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: It's happened a lot.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers had an 8-k winning streak.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: They needed to win this game to secure home field advantage for the playoffs.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: Late in the game with the Steelers trailing 27-24 after a D on Lewis TD for New England.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers drive into Patriots territory, and Jesse James makes an apparent catch for a touchdown.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: So as Jesse James is catching the ball, he takes like, what would you say, three steps, Tim?
49:52
SPEAKER_01: Maybe four?
49:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he caught the ball like at the five or just inside it.
49:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, he he catches it.
49:59
SPEAKER_02: He catches it, yeah, inside the five, but then after he catches it, he turns his body, extends his arms to try to reach over the goal line.
50:07
SPEAKER_02: Like he literally makes a turn, like he catches it in his arms, then he turns.
50:12
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't dive to catch it, he catches it, then turns, reaches his arms out to cross the goal line.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: As he's going to the ground, the ball, and I'm going to describe this how I see it.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: And if you think you could you saw it some other way, you were god, you you were perfectly entitled to your own, I guess, interpretation of what happened on that video.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: The ball spins on his hand.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: The ball never touches the ground.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: I never see the ball definitively touch the ground.
50:40
SPEAKER_01: Much like we said in the early where the white shoes and the white pants on the sideline, I couldn't see whether that guy was in and out on the replay.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: On this replay, you never see the ball touch the ground.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: So the rule had been changed earlier to say a player had to keep possession all the way through to survive the ground.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: It used to be, and now it's gone back to this, whereas both hands on the ball, both feet on the ground, control the ball, and a football move, right?
51:09
SPEAKER_01: That's still the rule now.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: They went back to this after this silliness.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: And um, there had been all kinds of examples after since they had changed the rule to this of like weird stuff.
51:22
SPEAKER_01: Like Calvin Johnson had caught a ball that had not been called a catch because he kind of like what he took it like in his hand, like he had palmed the football in his one hand and like then touched the ground with it in the end zone.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: But he had like caught the ball in the air, got both feet down, like turned around, and as he was getting up, he just like used the football to get up, kind of.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: And they called that not a catch.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: There was also a Des Bryan catch against Green Bay in 2014 where he was he caught the ball and he just was like falling forward.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't even reaching out really, and the ball came out when he hit the ground.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Um the the review was a was by a guy named Alberto Riviera on, and he's just he's horrible.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: He's a horrible official.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is just it's a bad rule and a bad official.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: And there's actually evidence earlier in the year of the um Patriots had the exact kind of catch against the Texans in week three, where the guy did the same thing.
52:26
SPEAKER_01: Brandon Cook's draw, like you can literally see the ball hit the ground.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: It's the same type of play.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: He catches the ball in the end zone, and then when he goes to the ground, you see the ball.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: And Rivereon calls it a catch.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: So he literally rules against himself both ways.
52:41
SPEAKER_01: So I guess no matter what happens, as long as the Patriots, you know, whatever the Patriots need the call to be, that's what the call's gonna be.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: So it's probably the most one-sided, perfect example of I'm not sure why the league was so much in the Patriots' pocket back then if there was just two they're getting two kinds of crazy ratings or you know, just the hate made people tune in.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a bad rule.
53:05
SPEAKER_01: They changed it back, like I said, to the old, you know, football move rule, which whatever a football move is, you can debate till the cows come home.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
53:17
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter because Ben on the next play throws an interception two plays later.
53:22
SPEAKER_01: If he wasn't done that, I think they're what was the score?
53:26
SPEAKER_01: Was it still in three points?
53:27
SPEAKER_01: They could have kicked a field goal and went to overtime.
53:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: And if and if they win in overtime, then nobody I mean, people would remember it, but not the way that they do now.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and uh great quote by Jesse James was you expect the worst whenever it's putting someone in New York's hands.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: That was Jesse James quote on the matter.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: Um it's once again, the Steelers just didn't really overcome it, and throwing that interception late, that was such a bad uh Rothesburg really made a bad play there, so Ben not so good on that one.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: But um I don't I don't know what the else to say about it.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: I just it's it's one of the more egregious and one-sided calls I think I've ever seen in sports that's gone against the team that you know is one of my favorite teams.
54:14
SPEAKER_01: And I just I can't remember anything else where like there's been a few other games I've watched where I knew like I remember there was a Bills game against the Dolphins when Jimmy Johnson was there, where the Bills just got stuck at to every time.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: Like Andre Reed got called for ridiculous stuff.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: It was just so obvious like they wanted the Dolphins to win that game.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: That was like in when Doug Flutie was their quarterback.
54:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just but besides that, I can't remember like too many games where it was pretty blatantly obvious who who the league wanted to win and who they wanted to lose.
54:50
SPEAKER_02: I I that I still can't believe that call.
54:53
SPEAKER_02: And I I remember just I remember walking out of the stadium, I just couldn't, I didn't even have words, I just was like, I I can't like that didn't just happen.
55:01
SPEAKER_02: There's no way that just happened.
55:03
SPEAKER_02: I could not believe it.
55:04
SPEAKER_02: I remember when they were reviewing it, because I was um I I thought they were reviewing it, like, did he cross the line or not?
55:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, are they gonna place it at the one-yard line, right?
55:15
SPEAKER_02: That's what I thought they were reviewing.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: And when they came out and said no catch, I was like, Well, how how is it no catch?
55:21
SPEAKER_02: That like it was like anybody that saw that with their naked eye would say that's a catch.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: And even with the controlling the ball surviving the ground, like you said, Steve, it never hit the ground.
55:31
SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't even make sense.
55:32
SPEAKER_02: Like, it doesn't have to hit the ground, even if it bobbles in his hand, it still was on top of the on top.
55:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know you're right.
55:39
SPEAKER_02: This one, I'm already getting upset thinking about it.
55:41
SPEAKER_01: So and there's like so much backstory.
55:44
SPEAKER_01: There was one, there was a game in the NFC Championship game where um uh who was it for the Bucks, I think, caught a pass, but he he used the ground to help him catch it and they called it incomplete because they tried to include it so that like if the ball just incidentally hit the ground but you had control of it.
56:02
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just classic NFL overreacting because you know, some owner is sitting there whining in the winner meetings.
56:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh my team, you know, the the Glazers or whoever owned the Buccaneers at the time was sitting there whining and crying.
56:16
SPEAKER_01: So well, let's that's enough of the against.
56:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's go to the four.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: Yay, these are the ones that went in our favor.
56:24
SPEAKER_01: Mike Renfro catch.
56:26
SPEAKER_01: So in 1979, the Steelers have won three Super Bowls in five years.
56:30
SPEAKER_01: They have the most Super Bowls by any team at that time, I do believe.
56:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:34
SPEAKER_01: They have finished a with a 12-4 record due to the chart and due to the Chargers losing the AFC Championship.
56:42
SPEAKER_01: Losing the AFC Championship game is played in Pittsburgh.
56:45
SPEAKER_01: The Houston Oilers have been good for a couple years.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: They have players like Dan Pastorini, Earl Campbell, and head coach Bud Adams.
56:52
SPEAKER_01: His son um uh the other Adams uh is uh a coach too on the team.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: Or is that Wade Phillips?
57:01
SPEAKER_01: No, that was not his son.
57:02
SPEAKER_01: Wade is that Wade?
57:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Wade Phillips.
57:04
SPEAKER_01: Um you're thinking of Bum Phillips.
57:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Bud Adams.
57:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Bum Phillips, Wade Phillips is the yeah.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and he was one of the coordinators at that time, yeah.
57:13
SPEAKER_01: Because he he he in the replays after this catch, that was a catch.
57:17
SPEAKER_01: That was a catch.
57:17
SPEAKER_01: He was the one that they had to bleep out on the on the NFL films.
57:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh but uh Houston is probably uh quite honestly is a very good good team.
57:27
SPEAKER_01: They're kind of like the uh Avis of the uh NFL, they're number two and trying harder.
57:32
SPEAKER_01: Like if they weren't if it weren't for the Steelers, they probably would have won a Super Bowl one time in those late 70s error.
57:40
SPEAKER_01: The Oilers lost to the Steelers 34-9 the previous year in the playoffs.
57:45
SPEAKER_01: Um in the third quarter with Houston trailing by a touchdown pastorini throws a lob pass to Mike Renfro in the corner of the end zone.
57:54
SPEAKER_01: If you watch the TV replay, it's pretty clear that Renfro gets both feet down.
57:58
SPEAKER_01: This is a no-doubter.
57:59
SPEAKER_01: But for some reason, the ref in the end zone missed the call.
58:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, Renfro on the replay, you can see he's not happy.
58:06
SPEAKER_01: He later said that the crowd in Pittsburgh intimidated the officials.
58:10
SPEAKER_01: And if the game had would have been in Houston, the call would have gone his way.
58:14
SPEAKER_01: So uh score one for you Steelers fans.
58:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh oh well, Tim, I guess you were too young to be.
58:20
SPEAKER_01: I was not at that one.
58:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it would have been like two years old.
58:23
SPEAKER_01: Maybe your dad was really giving Mike for the the record.
58:26
SPEAKER_01: Probably that wasn't it.
58:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:29
SPEAKER_01: But uh no instant replay, so the call couldn't be overturned.
58:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh, even radio commentator for the Steelers, Myron Cope called it a TD.
58:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh Merlin Olson, the TV color commentator, decides to send uh flowers to to coach Bum Phillips as an apology for the bad call.
58:47
SPEAKER_01: It's a reference.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: Marlon Olson used to do FTD commercials.
58:51
SPEAKER_01: So we'll have one of those posted, hopefully.
58:53
SPEAKER_01: I think I put one of those on the website too for us.
58:56
SPEAKER_01: But uh the Steelers score a late TD to clinch the game, making the final score 27 to 13.
59:02
SPEAKER_01: So it may, I mean, maybe they tie the game there, the Houston Tyler game, but this wasn't a done deal.
59:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's not like the Oilers were gonna be on their way to the Super Bowl if they had scored there.
59:14
SPEAKER_01: Still the Steelers have been in so many games like this by that point in the franchise.
59:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't think Terry Bradshaw or you know, Franco Harris or Jack you know Lambert are gonna blink just because they're in a tie game late with Houston, you know.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: They've been in Super Bowls, they they can handle this.
59:35
SPEAKER_01: So the in the dynasty, you know, seem to thrive in these situations.
59:41
SPEAKER_01: So I I wouldn't put too much stock.
59:43
SPEAKER_01: Like Ed Bouchette always has said that, well, they won by two touchdowns.
59:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
59:47
SPEAKER_01: Now the final score is 27-21, big deal, you know?
59:52
SPEAKER_01: Woo-hoo.
59:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I remember Dwight White saying the same thing.
59:55
SPEAKER_02: It's like big deal.
59:56
SPEAKER_02: We we went down and scored on the next drive anyway.
59:59
SPEAKER_02: So what difference does it make?
1:00:01
SPEAKER_02: And and that's probably a fair point, but just the call by itself, it was it was pretty egregious.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, oh, it's pretty obvious.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_01: He he has both feet in.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_01: It's he has both feet in balance, yeah.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_02: And they really hosed the Oilers on that call.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, just to be totally fair, that was just an awful, awful call.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: And and that actually led to they didn't institute it till the um mid to late 80s, but that was one of the big drivers for replay.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_02: Like that was that was the big argument in the offseason.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, we desperately needed some replay because of that play.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, so on to hockey, uh, whistle in the 2017 Cup Finals.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, so the Penguins are on the verge of winning their fifth Stanley Cup.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_01: They're leading the series three games to two after winning game five in Nashville, sixth to nothing.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_01: It's a must-win game for Nashville, the force of game seven in Pittsburgh.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: And early in the second period, a Phillip Forsberg shot handcuffs Matt Murray, and it slips through between his arm and body and is loose in the crease, where it's poked into an empty net by Colton Sissens.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_01: Sissons?
1:01:09
SPEAKER_01: Sissons?
1:01:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to say his name.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, uh referee Kevin Pollock, who's no relation to Lieutenant Weinberg, blows his whistle prematurely.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_01: Now, I used to have that problem now, but I just think about baseball.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_01: The quote, the naked gun again.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_01: But uh the I guess the ref just saw Murray just pin it just for a second and couldn't see it on the other side because Murray was in the way, so he blew his whistle, even though the puck was still loose.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_01: And because he blew his whistle, they can't do anything to replay it.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_01: And if you hear you can hear the whistle really go, like it's it's just bad luck.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_01: Once again, it's kind of one of those bad luck thing.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh, the game remains nothing, nothing until late in the game when Patrick Hornquest scores with a minute 35 left.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, Nashville captain Mike Fisher was very diplomatic after the game, saying about the call, that's sports.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_01: Um I I mean to Nashville, like, you know, that was a bad break, but they did have two more periods after that to score more than zero goals.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not like a math whiz or anything, Tim.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can help me out here with this one, but I don't think you can score scoring zero.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_01: And I'm pretty sure the NF NHL got rid of ties a while ago.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_01: So right, you you need more than zero to win.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_01: You do.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_02: I I mean, I I think I I guess if you're a Nashville fan, the argument you could make was it was such a tight game, it was zero zero all the way until the last minute of the of regulation, and them getting the first goal may have changed the way that they played.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_02: They remember their best player was Pekarine.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I'll Peccarina gave up what, like, 30 goals by that point in the series.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_02: But he but yet, but not in Nashville.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_02: Remember that series?
1:03:02
SPEAKER_02: The Penguins won't be.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a home and home.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_02: All three games the Penguins won were in Pittsburgh, but when they played in Nashville, Rene was lights out.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_02: And he was lights out for, again, for 98% of that game until the last minute, they got one by him.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_02: So the argument would have been, hey, if they got the first goal, that would have changed the whole momentum.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_02: That first goal is so important.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and like you said, Steve, it wasn't a bad call.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_02: Like there was like it was the right call, supposedly.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_02: Like you couldn't change it, but he did blow the whistle when like the puck wasn't it, it didn't even and it wasn't one of one of those things where like Murray had an it squirted out after a few seconds.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_02: It literally just went right through him, but the referee just blew the whistle anyway.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_02: It was it was definitely a really bad call.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_02: I think the ref thought it was in his glove.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_02: I really did.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_02: He did.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_02: So it was on it was unfortunate for Nashville, but like Mike Mike Fisher said before he went home to his rich and famous wife.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, that like that's that's just with sports, that's sports sometimes.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pecorini, I I just not a big believer.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_01: I think the penguins own him.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_01: I I just I just think the penguins aren't own certain goals.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't say I have any confidence in Pecorini.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_02: I uh again, I'm just I'm trying to make the argument from a Nashville fan perspective.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_02: I gotcha.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't be a ridiculous argument.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_01: Mary had found his game those last two games.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_01: He had back-to-back shutouts.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_01: That's what really carried the penguins to their cup.
1:04:25
SPEAKER_01: But I will say this give give it to Nashville fans, man.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_01: They went crazy, they went hockey crazy that postseason.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_01: That's what I remember.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_01: And I remember it was kind of annoying, but then I was like, well, we were probably like that when we were 91 and you know, we finally won our first cup.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_01: So fans were probably like annoyed with us too.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it was cool.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_02: I like it was really neat to see them so excited.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_02: Like they were like filling the streets in the nights of the games.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was almost a little bit jealous because, like, wow, look how and it was like it was kind of like when we beat the Arizona Cardinals in the Super Bowl.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_02: Man, if if they were just playing any other team but us, I would totally be rooting for this town and this team and these players, but they're playing us, so I don't want to root for us.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, um, the Cordell touchdown catch in the 95 AFC title game.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, the Steelers have made the 95 AFC title game after a playoff blowout win against Buffalo the week before.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_01: They'll face the Indianapolis Colts with Captain Comeback Jim Harbaugh at quarterback.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, Neil O'Donnell struggles early, throwing an interception to Colts defender Jeff Harod on a tipped pass by Tony Saragusa.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Colts lead late and a half, six to three.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers drive to the Colts' six yard line.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_01: And I know this is hard to believe, but uh Neil O'Donnell scrambles around and finds Cordell Stewart in the back of the end zone for a touchdown.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_01: But when they show the replay, uh Cordell had like kind of half stepped out of bounds before coming back in and then catch.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: Catching the ball.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_01: And because of there's a rule, you can't be the first offensive player to touch the ball after going out of bounds.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: I think the rule's been changed where you just have to re-establish, you just have to get both feet in for like a second or two.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_01: And I think the reason for this rule was you can't like avoid like defenders by like I'm running up the sideline.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_01: You can't, you know, you can't do anything, you know, and then just like jump off the sideline, like, here I am, you know.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_01: So I guess that I that makes sense to me as a rule, but um the officials missed it, and uh there was no replay.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_01: Was it this was like that you said there was replay for a couple years in the 80s and then it went away for a while, and then this was like kind of like a couple years later, replay came back, and this is probably one of the plays that brought replay back.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: Um that was bad, and that was another tight game where the Steelers really was that their only touchdown on that?
1:06:55
SPEAKER_02: No, well, until then.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_02: Bam watch.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_02: But I mean that was it was a tight, low-scoring game, and that that made if they the Colts hold them to a field goal there, which they would have had that play not counted, that could have been a very different game.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, the officials missed it and the TD had to stand.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh Jim Harbaugh called the play a wash since there was a pass interference that could have been called against the Colts for a Steelers T D earlier in the half, where the the Colts held him to a field goal.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, to the Colts' credit, um they didn't fade or going, boo boo-hoo, I got screwed up on the Seattle Seahawks.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh they they they they uh they came back and held a 16-13 lead late in the game.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_01: And they actually almost won on a desperation Hail Mary.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_01: I actually watched that hail marry.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize how close that was to getting like the Steeler defender Myron Bell actually does knock it into the hands of Floyd.
1:07:49
SPEAKER_01: I think it was the receiver for the for the Colts.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_01: So that was really close to being completed.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_01: Um the Steelers went on to lose in Super Bowl 30.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_01: They wouldn't go back to the Super Bowl for another 10 years.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh as for the Colts, they went into horrible mode and they didn't really recover that until they drafted some guy named um Peyton Manning and won their own Super Bowl in 2006.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_01: So I guess that Peyton Manning guy worked out for them okay.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_01: He was alright.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_01: So uh Tim uh Heinz Ward in the 2007 playoffs, what was going on with that one?
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: So so we we covered this one too in a previous episode.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_02: I think it was our top ten forgotten stories.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_02: And the forgotten story here was how Heinz Ward almost cheated the Steelers to a playoff victory.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_02: Um the Steelers are playing the Jaguars in the 2007 playoffs.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_02: They're they're um real late in the game, they have fourth and goal and they have to score a touchdown.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if they don't score a touchdown, then the game's practically over.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_02: They throw a fade pass to Heinz Ward in the corner of the end zone, it's way over his head, and the Jaguars are going to take over and potentially hold on to win the game.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_02: But but Heinz Ward uh grabs the defender's face mask.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_02: He literally sticks his arm up in the guy's face mask.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_02: Then as he's pulling it away, it it kind of looks like the guy's holding him, but he's not.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_02: Um it was totally coordinated by Ward, uh, and the rest fell for it.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_02: It was a complete acting job.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_02: And the referees call pass interference, uh the the Jacksonville guys just jumping up and down going crazy, he can't believe it.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers get first and goal from the one and they score the go-ahead touchdown.
1:09:32
SPEAKER_02: And as I said in that previous episode, I feel like that play would have gotten a lot more remembered, especially by the Jacksonville fans, uh, if not for the fact that the Jaguars actually come back and win the game anyway.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and see if there was some controversy there as well.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_02: And that it was kind of funny.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_02: There was there was that bad call, but then there was another bad call that helped the Jaguars later.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_02: So maybe that did even things out a little bit in that game.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they they they got a league of the Steelers got a league apology because they were uh I think Aaron Smith or was Smith hurt by one of the defenders on the on that fourth and two play by Gerard got held pretty blatantly.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh Ben played a horrible game.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_01: He had three interceptions, at least in the first half.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_01: Another great uh Tomlin.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_01: If he just would have kicked the extra points after scoring in the fourth quarter instead of going for two twice, the go-ahead field goal would have only tied the game.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_01: Um Jacksonville went on to lose to New England 31-20 the next week, and that was during New England's undefeated season run, which ended in Super Bowl disappointment for them.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_01: Um here's a fun fact Jacksonville, the Jacksonville Jagoffs have never played in a Super Bowl.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers went on to win Super Bowl 43 like the next year.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I don't know.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_01: Jacksonville annoys me for some reason.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_01: I just never liked Jacksonville.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was just Tom Coughlin and Jack.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_01: They always have like a jerk coach down there.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_02: And and that team and that team in 2007 was pretty good.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_02: They won the division, but by that time they were pretty beat up.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_02: They had lost a lot of guys, and and even if they had won, they probably weren't gonna go beat undefeated New England the next week.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_02: So um I don't know.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_02: I I just it it it it the calls at the end of the game, like that that they should have been holding, but again, I mean people just don't remember.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_02: Heinz Ward was one of those guys that if he played for any other team, we all would have just despised the guy.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_02: What a cheater, what a cheap shot artist.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_02: Hate that guy so much, but because he played for the Steelers, he's canonized here in Pittsburgh.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_02: And that's fine.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_02: I like Heinz Ward, so I'm not complaining.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_02: But but that that was that was cheap.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he really got away with one there, and Jacksonville almost got eliminated from the playoffs because of that.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, I wouldn't have been too disappointed by that, I guess.
1:11:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's so there's a passitor.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_01: We have the next one that's called Passitor Feiners Calling the 1984 Niners game.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_02: So so this one, the 1984, the 49ers are at the height of their powers with Joe Montana and Bill Walsh.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_02: And um, they're playing at home in the middle of the season against the Steelers.
1:12:14
SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers are playing them pretty tight, but they're down by seven late in the game, and the Steelers have fourth and goal.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_02: So similar to that Jacksonville game, right?
1:12:23
SPEAKER_02: Fourth and goal, and and in this case, the Steelers were down by seven, so the best they can do is tie, but they had to go for it because they're not gonna have another shot potentially after this.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_02: And um, Mark Malone was the Steelers quarterback, he throws a pass in the end zone, it's broken up, but there's a flag, and it's pass interference, and it is an incredibly ticky-tack pass interference call.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_02: Again, if you look at the replay, it's really not pass interference.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_02: And again, the 49ers are jumping up and down, they can't believe it.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers get a fresh set of downs, they tie the game, and then they go on to win the game.
1:12:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, this is another one of the things, like you said, Steve, that you you go always go back to the bad calls, but then you think about what happened after that.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_02: And and this tied the game.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_02: Well, the the 49ers had Joe Montana, and they got the ball back with a few minutes left.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_02: So all they had to do was drive down the field and kick the game-winning field goal, but Montana throws an interception to Brian Hinkle of all people.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_02: Brian Hinkle was a was a linebacker who was not a bad linebacker, but he's not like a he's not Rod Woodson or Mel Blunt.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_02: And Brian Hinkle picks off Joe Montana, and the Steelers get the go-head field goal.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_02: And even after that, the 49ers still had time to get in the field goal range and they missed the uh potentially game-tying field goal.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_01: Wasn't there was that Ray Worshin who missed the because I was it was Ray Worshin?
1:13:45
SPEAKER_01: I only knew that from Tech Mobile.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_01: I only knew that when I saw it, because that's Ray Warson from Tech Mobile.
1:13:50
SPEAKER_02: And I think he was one of those old school like straight-on kickers.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_02: And and it was like a it was like a 37, 38-yard kick, so it wasn't a chip shot, but but but again, I mean they had two chances after that.
1:14:02
SPEAKER_02: And and um, but but I think the reason that that it's remembered, well, definitely one reason the 49ers uh that was the only game they lost the whole season was that Steeler game.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_02: They they win the Super Bowl.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, that was the Dolphins.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_01: They beat the Dolphins in the yeah.
1:14:20
SPEAKER_02: They were they finished that year 18-1.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_02: So if that place, if that fourth and goal stands and they don't call pass interference, then they probably win because they're probably not giving the Steelers a ball back, and even if they do, Martin Mullen wasn't going to lead the heroic game tying touchdown drive.
1:14:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just be honest.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_02: So you could you could actually argue that that pass interference call cost the 49ers a perfect season.
1:14:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess you know they're really disappointed that they'll just have to settle for their Super Bowl with 18 in one season.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean that was that was that was pretty unbelievable.
1:14:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that whole game was unbelievable.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_02: Brian Hinkle, you know, uh intercepting the the best quarterback of the era.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, it just sometimes sometimes you just you're on.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_02: And the funny thing about that season was the Steelers actually played in the AFC championship game that year, which again no one would ever remember.
1:15:15
SPEAKER_02: Against the Dolphins.
1:15:16
SPEAKER_02: Against the Dolphins.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_02: And so they almost like they were one game away from the a rematch in the Super Bowl with the 49ers.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm I I I could say with a lot of certainty that there's no way the Steelers would have beaten them in the Super Bowl, but wouldn't that have been interesting?
1:15:31
SPEAKER_02: The one team that they lost all year would be the team they played in the Super Bowl.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_02: It would have been a storyline, that's for sure.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_01: And that probably would have been all that it would have been.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like, and then they got blown out.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:15:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, because the Dolphins kind of hung with them for a little bit, but then in the second half faded.
1:15:49
SPEAKER_01: And that was what Merino's rookie year, right?
1:15:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:15:52
SPEAKER_02: It was the second year.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_02: It was the year out.
1:15:54
SPEAKER_02: I think that was the year that he had 50 touchdown passes.
1:15:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he was which was which was unheard of at the time.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that was I mean, that would be huge today, but that was like unheard of.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_02: And and and yeah, he could do nothing against San Francisco.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_02: So Mark Malone probably wouldn't have fared better.
1:16:10
SPEAKER_02: Just throwing that out there.
1:16:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's all in the isotoners.
1:16:15
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we can.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, so now we move out of the four to the overblown, which is just exaggerated in importance, probably didn't affect the game as much as people would like to think of.
1:16:27
SPEAKER_01: And this could be for or against the Steelers.
1:16:31
SPEAKER_01: Um the Steelers are going for one for the thumb in their first Super Bowl appearance in 10 years.
1:16:37
SPEAKER_01: This is Super Bowl 40.
1:16:38
SPEAKER_01: They are playing the Seattle Seahawks.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_01: And there's a couple plays in this one.
1:16:42
SPEAKER_01: In the first quarter, the Seahawks have a TD taken off the board as Daryl Jackson is determined to push off against Chris Hope.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_01: We covered this in the uh the podcast for our when we did the the third one on the Super Bowl 41.
1:16:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, it he did push off.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_01: It was not like egregious.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he pushed off.
1:17:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it wasn't like super bad, but you could call it.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_01: Another call was Sean Locklear holding call that eliminated a first and goal for the Seahawks.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_01: Also, Ben scored a touchdown that was a close call in the first half.
1:17:16
SPEAKER_01: So there was definitely some uh close calls and you know, some controversial ones on that the Seahawks just seemed to can't get over or leave alone.
1:17:26
SPEAKER_01: And it's still in like it's still on the internet.
1:17:29
SPEAKER_01: I was surprised.
1:17:29
SPEAKER_01: Like there's like a whole Wikipedia page on like you know controversies in the NFL, and this is one of them.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_01: And I just I don't like it.
1:17:38
SPEAKER_01: Bill Levy apologized, who was the referee for that game.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_01: He did apologize for the calls and it calls in a 2010 interview when he was in Seattle.
1:17:46
SPEAKER_01: His code was it was a tough thing for me.
1:17:48
SPEAKER_01: I kicked two calls in the fourth quarter and I impacted the game.
1:17:51
SPEAKER_01: As an official, you never want to do that, said the veteran of 15 NFL seasons and two Super Bowls.
1:17:57
SPEAKER_01: It left me with a lot of sleepless nights, and I think about it constantly, Leavely said, Levy said of the February 2006 game.
1:18:04
SPEAKER_01: I'll go to my grave wishing that I had been better.
1:18:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, maybe Levy just said that to get out of Seattle alive since he was there like doing a preseason game or something.
1:18:14
SPEAKER_01: And it's just annoying, like it's just annoying because it's like, oh, that's like my favorite Super Bowl.
1:18:20
SPEAKER_01: It's like the whole reason I've been a Steeler fan for like 20 years and everybody's gonna ruin it now with this stupidity.
1:18:26
SPEAKER_01: And I guess maybe the uh the Patriots fans feel the way, feel this way about when people bring up the flake gate, which I mean, did having the balls like really just a little bit not quite, you know, really help Tom Brady that much.
1:18:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, come on.
1:18:41
SPEAKER_01: So I I don't know.
1:18:44
SPEAKER_01: I I don't that's why I just don't put much stock in those.
1:18:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we said when we did our our trilogy of episodes about the 2005 Steelers, we said it then these were close calls, not bad calls.
1:18:57
SPEAKER_02: And close calls, you know, yes, they mostly went against Seattle in that game, but they weren't they weren't egregious or bad calls.
1:19:05
SPEAKER_02: And and it just this narrative started up.
1:19:07
SPEAKER_02: It's such a bogus narrative.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it never dies, it just keeps going and going and going and going, and it's just like, oh my goodness, it's horrible.
1:19:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, which brings us on to the next one.
1:19:20
SPEAKER_01: This one goes against the Steelers.
1:19:21
SPEAKER_01: It's on-site kick interference, the 2000 collapse against the Eagles.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, the Steelers had taken a 23-13 lead with just three minutes left in regulation after a time-consuming drive, which forced Philadelphia to use all three of their timeouts.
1:19:36
SPEAKER_01: So they're up by 10 with three minutes left.
1:19:39
SPEAKER_01: This is the victory seems guaranteed.
1:19:42
SPEAKER_01: But the Eagles came back and won the game.
1:19:44
SPEAKER_01: They drove down the field for a touchdown and they recovered an onside kick, kicked a field goal, then won the game in overtime.
1:19:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, the controversial part of this game is um on the onside kick, one of the uh players interfered with Heinz Ward's ability to catch the kick.
1:20:03
SPEAKER_01: That should have been a penalty, and the the NFL uh did admit to that.
1:20:07
SPEAKER_01: And they the overblown is is because even with the recovery of the onside kick, the Steelers defense still had three chances to win the game.
1:20:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, all they have to do is like stop the Eagles one of those three times and they win.
1:20:20
SPEAKER_01: This is like what's it?
1:20:21
SPEAKER_01: That was in that collapse of 2000.
1:20:24
SPEAKER_01: Which like in the 90s, they started to do that every year.
1:20:26
SPEAKER_01: They would collapse at the end of the year.
1:20:28
SPEAKER_02: And and and like you said at the beginning, up by 10, three minutes left, no timeouts for the for Philadelphia.
1:20:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, how can you how can you pin that on one bad call?
1:20:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's just an all-collapse.
1:20:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's the it's the genius of Andy Reed.
1:20:41
SPEAKER_01: You can't be stopped.
1:20:43
SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, it it I mean I don't yeah, I think the collapses were more of the story that season than just this bad call.
1:20:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, even though it was a bad call, but it was just it was like one sequence of another events like dominoes.
1:20:59
SPEAKER_01: Like if you pull out one of those sequences, it doesn't really like maybe it's the Steelers only win by three points, but they still win, you know.
1:21:08
SPEAKER_01: So once again, how you respond to a bad break is as important as you know, because bad breaks are gonna, you know, this is life, it's gonna happen.
1:21:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, on the next one, this is more recent.
1:21:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh, Eric Fisher for holding on the two-point conversion attempt in the 2016 playoffs.
1:21:23
SPEAKER_01: This is definitely a in the four category.
1:21:26
SPEAKER_01: So the Steelers and Chiefs meet in the divisional playoffs.
1:21:29
SPEAKER_01: Alex Smith is the quarterback for the Chiefs, and the Steelers hold a late 18-10 lead.
1:21:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh, Chris Boswell kicks an NFL playoff record, six field goals for all of the Steelers' points that day.
1:21:44
SPEAKER_01: But the Chiefs, late in the game, drive down and score a touchdown with 243 to go in the game.
1:21:50
SPEAKER_01: So because it's so late in the game, the Chiefs go for two.
1:21:53
SPEAKER_01: And they make the the attempt with a pass completion to Demetrius Harris.
1:21:58
SPEAKER_01: But wait up, hold up.
1:22:00
SPEAKER_01: There's a flag on the play on the two-point conversion.
1:22:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, away from the play, James Harrison is pulled down by tackle Eric Fisher and holding is called.
1:22:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the big thing is his holding is not normally called on like big plays like fourth downs.
1:22:15
SPEAKER_01: And like normally, unless it's Harrison kind of flopped.
1:22:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Harrison gotten pretty good at that point.
1:22:22
SPEAKER_01: There were a lot of times when Harrison was held, but he kind of gotten like he could get himself to lean against the tackle and it would really look like he was being held, where maybe he was just kind of like making it look like that.
1:22:35
SPEAKER_01: But you know, to his point, that's uh it was a flop that would have made James Harden, if you're an A NBA fan, jealous, that's for sure.
1:22:45
SPEAKER_01: And also, he was so far away from Alex Smith when he threw the ball.
1:22:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even sure, even if like the tackle would have totally whiffed on the play that that he would have got a sack.
1:22:55
SPEAKER_01: There was still over two minutes left to go in the game.
1:22:57
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, it's a tie game.
1:23:00
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers have already kicked like six field goals, you know.
1:23:03
SPEAKER_01: Who's to say Boswell doesn't kick a seventh, you know, and it just it's not that far fetched, and two minutes to drive the field isn't that as an asking that much from Ben Rothelsberger and the offense that day.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh give credit is uh the uh Eric Fisher had took responsibility for the penalty.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I'm frustrated with the call, the with the game on the line, and for me to let the team down, it's going to be hard to let that one go.
1:23:32
SPEAKER_01: Travis Kelsey was not so diplomatic.
1:23:35
SPEAKER_01: He was the most vocal vocal of the people against the call, telling reporters it was um horse poop.
1:23:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh, edit that one.
1:23:43
SPEAKER_01: Edited, and the officials shouldn't be able to allow the referee to officiate games anymore.
1:23:48
SPEAKER_01: Andy Reed wasn't happy about the call either.
1:23:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure I completely agree with what took place, but it did, and the call was made, and we live with that.
1:23:58
SPEAKER_01: Reed said, I don't want to be fined any money, but I would tell you I was probably leaning the other way.
1:24:02
SPEAKER_01: I thought Fisher did what he needed to do on that particular block to get that done.
1:24:07
SPEAKER_01: But the problem is that that when people slip, it can look worse than it is.
1:24:11
SPEAKER_01: He thought Harrison dove.
1:24:14
SPEAKER_01: It definitely, like I said, a James Harden-esque it's uh uh thing.
1:24:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh there was definitely Harrison had definitely you know gotten his flopping down there.
1:24:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Chiefs draft Patrick Mahomes the next year in 2017 and become one of the more prolific offenses in league history.
1:24:34
SPEAKER_01: Andy Reid has as many Super Bowl wins as Mike Tomlin.
1:24:38
SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers go on to get blown out in the championship game by New England.
1:24:43
SPEAKER_01: Fun fact, uh as of 2021, this is the last playoff game that Mike Tomlin and Ben Rothesberger have won.
1:24:50
SPEAKER_01: And Le'Veon Bell and Antonio Brown, who were Steelers at the time, never win a Super Bowl with the Steelers.
1:24:56
SPEAKER_01: So uh a lot of fun stuff going on in the end of that one.
1:25:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, another another, like maybe it was a little ticky-tack, but it wasn't like just blatantly, you know, um, a miss.
1:25:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't the worst call ever.
1:25:14
SPEAKER_02: And like you said, the the Kansas City, I think we even had a um when we got the ball back, we had it we had to convert a third down.
1:25:21
SPEAKER_02: Or else we had to punt the ball back to them and they couldn't stop us on the third down.
1:25:25
SPEAKER_02: So I mean they had their chances after that.
1:25:29
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I guess they can't be too upset they won a Super Bowl and been in another one since then.
1:25:34
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you're welcome, Kansas City.
1:25:37
SPEAKER_02: That's what adversity does.
1:25:38
SPEAKER_02: It builds you into a champion.
1:25:40
SPEAKER_01: So um on to uh Benny Barnes trip in Super Bowl 13.
1:25:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Super Bowl 13, the Cowboys versus the Steelers and the Orange Bowl.
1:25:51
SPEAKER_01: And for once, the two best teams in the NFL that season actually meet in the Super Bowl.
1:25:56
SPEAKER_01: Hey, what a novel concept, you know.
1:25:58
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't happen that often.
1:26:00
SPEAKER_01: And this game's amazing.
1:26:01
SPEAKER_01: This this Super Bowl features 16 future NFL Hall of Famers.
1:26:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
1:26:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't think of a game that has had that many in it.
1:26:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, at the time it was considered one of the greatest Super Bowls of all time, and it seems to be a little forgotten about on a national level.
1:26:18
SPEAKER_01: But Gil Brandt sought though, he thought those were two great football teams.
1:26:22
SPEAKER_01: The Cowboys made mistakes.
1:26:24
SPEAKER_01: We had Randy White on the return team with a cast on, and then he fumbled the kickoff, which really hurt us.
1:26:30
SPEAKER_01: And even though we lost, I thought I would say Super Bowl 13 was the greatest Super Bowl.
1:26:34
SPEAKER_01: So hey, Gil Brandt thought so, and he's a pretty smart guy.
1:26:37
SPEAKER_01: Um on to the play in the fourth quarter, the Steelers were leading 21 to 17 after Jackie Smith dropped the pass.
1:26:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, I heard Jackie Smith was the sickest man in America after that.
1:26:48
SPEAKER_01: Bless his heart.
1:26:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:26:50
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers are driving and on a on a pass on a pass play to Lin Swan.
1:26:57
SPEAKER_01: And um so what happens is they're running down the field, and Benny Barnes trips, and so does uh Lin Swan, and the ball the ball falls incomplete.
1:27:09
SPEAKER_01: And so the officials determine that Benny Barnes had tripped Lin Swan and called passer ference.
1:27:17
SPEAKER_01: So there's those 1978 Don Shula rules coming into play.
1:27:24
SPEAKER_01: Um let me um this is an interesting thing.
1:27:27
SPEAKER_01: I was watching the NFL Films recap of this Super Bowl, and this is how John Facenda described the play.
1:27:34
SPEAKER_01: It was a reckless pass by Bradshaw.
1:27:37
SPEAKER_01: As Barnes fell down, Swan tripped over him.
1:27:41
SPEAKER_01: And I do believe after that, NFL Films cut the John Facenda wearing his uh Roger Staub Cowboys jersey.
1:27:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, John Facenda is from Philly.
1:27:51
SPEAKER_01: I guess he's a big Cowboys fan.
1:27:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, ain't but it's just like the most unbelievably biased commentary.
1:28:00
SPEAKER_01: By like NFL films, I think I've ever seen.
1:28:03
SPEAKER_01: And it was like the Super Bowl.
1:28:05
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like, you know, like the here's the Steelers fans one.
1:28:09
SPEAKER_01: It was it was odd.
1:28:11
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers would go on to score on a Franco Harris run of 22 yards and play the Charlie W Waters of the safety for the Cowboys would still complain about later because the umpire got on his got in his way on his on his way to tackle Franco Harris and have Super Bowl glory.
1:28:28
SPEAKER_01: Another fun fact, Fred Swaringer, who was the ref of the Immaculate Reception game, did this one too.
1:28:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't think Fred had to call up to the press box after that play, though.
1:28:38
SPEAKER_01: And uh fun fact was that uh Franco run was the longest in Super Bowl history until Willie Parker's 75-yard run in Super Bowl 40.
1:28:47
SPEAKER_01: The score was then 28 to 17.
1:28:50
SPEAKER_01: Um the Steelers got the ball back in the soon kickoff and scored another TD when Randy White, who we mentioned early, who was playing with a cast on his hand, fumbled the kickoff.
1:29:00
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers scored again, making the score 35 to 17 with less than seven minutes to go in the game.
1:29:06
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, after that penalty, I mean they gave up two more touchdowns, but it wasn't like bang bang plays.
1:29:11
SPEAKER_01: So you know the Cowboys had a chance to make plays.
1:29:14
SPEAKER_01: But to the Cowboys' credit, they did like rally to make it a final score of 35 to 31.
1:29:22
SPEAKER_01: I so the Cowboys did show some character there, even though they did cry about a lot of it.
1:29:27
SPEAKER_01: Um the Cowboys would not go to would not even get back to or win another Super Bowl into their 52-17 victory over the Bills in the 90s.
1:29:37
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know if uh your dad's like an old-time Steeler fan.
1:29:40
SPEAKER_01: Did he call them the Cry Boys?
1:29:42
SPEAKER_01: Because I remember like a lot of the old like Steeler fans always called them the Cry Boys.
1:29:48
SPEAKER_02: He probably did.
1:29:49
SPEAKER_02: A lot of people did back then.
1:29:51
SPEAKER_02: There was even an early website, like back in the early days of the internet.
1:29:54
SPEAKER_02: I it might have been called like Cryboys.com, and it it it actually like listed every Dallas loss in the history of the franchise.
1:30:02
SPEAKER_02: Like that was that was the point of the website to like list all the Dallas Cowboys losses.
1:30:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh and like I said, this is like a 1995 era website.
1:30:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was a play where I mean, yeah, he did trip.
1:30:15
SPEAKER_02: He didn't intentionally interfere, but I mean if you watch the replay, how was Swan supposed to catch the ball?
1:30:21
SPEAKER_02: And isn't that the idea it's not it's not intent, it's just did you impede the guy's ability or didn't you?
1:30:27
SPEAKER_02: And I think they were just like, well, we didn't do it on purpose.
1:30:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, well, okay, so I mean, like, I get it, you tripped over each other.
1:30:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess I guess what they were saying is they should have called incidental contact, and maybe that's a fair argument, but eh, whatever.
1:30:40
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like the ball was totally uncatchable either.
1:30:42
SPEAKER_01: I just and it's just so funny that like once again, you're the guy, like if maybe if you wanted to put in those rules in the offseason, maybe that doesn't get called.
1:30:50
SPEAKER_01: So uh blame Don Chula for that one.
1:30:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, and and to your point, it didn't, it didn't, it wasn't like that decided the game.
1:30:59
SPEAKER_02: They had plenty of chances after that, and they let the Steelers score two more touchdowns.
1:31:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Jackie Smith drops a touchdown, you know, they fumble a kickoff.
1:31:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I don't know what to say.
1:31:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, you had a lot of other opportunities to to win that game.
1:31:15
SPEAKER_01: And and to their credit, they did rally themselves after that, after they kind of gathered themselves and they did make a game of it.
1:31:22
SPEAKER_01: So I that's as much sympathy as I can have for the Dallas Bell Boys.
1:31:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh so on to the ultimate, probably for call of all time, that maybe is a little overblown, but it's legend, so here we go.
1:31:41
SPEAKER_01: The Immaculate Reception.
1:31:44
SPEAKER_01: And as most people know, in 1972, the Steelers go to the playoffs for the first time.
1:31:48
SPEAKER_01: And by like long time, I mean long time, like pre-Dwight D.
1:31:56
SPEAKER_01: Eisenhower administration, long.
1:31:59
SPEAKER_01: So and for all you people know Dwight D.
1:32:01
SPEAKER_01: Eisenhower, he was president in 1950.
1:32:04
SPEAKER_01: So actually, I think Truman was in office in 1947, so it was since the Truman administration, so he was before Eisenhower.
1:32:13
SPEAKER_01: But just for some reference and fun U.S.
1:32:16
SPEAKER_01: presidential history knowledge.
1:32:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, so they played the Oakland Raiders in the first round of the playoffs.
1:32:22
SPEAKER_01: The Raiders had the lead 7-3 late in the game due to a long Kenny Stabler run.
1:32:28
SPEAKER_01: And on fourth and 10, Bradshaw throws a desperation pass that may have bounced off Raiders defensive back Jack Tatum or Steelers wide receiver Frenchie Fruquois.
1:32:39
SPEAKER_01: The defected pass is caught out of the air, caught out of the air by Franco Harris, who scores an improbable touchdown to win the game for Pittsburgh.
1:32:48
SPEAKER_01: Now, you say, oh, who cares?
1:32:50
SPEAKER_01: The ball bounced around.
1:32:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, at the time, there was a rule that stated that two offensive players could not touch the ball consecutively.
1:32:58
SPEAKER_01: So since uh Bradshaw threw the ball and then it hit off a Frenchie Foucault, and then Harris caught it, that would make the pass illegal.
1:33:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why that was a rule.
1:33:12
SPEAKER_01: I guess they didn't want you tipping it to yourself or another player like a volleyball.
1:33:17
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but that's the rules, and I don't make them.
1:33:20
SPEAKER_01: I just don't try and break them.
1:33:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Raiders claim that Fuca touched the ball, of course.
1:33:28
SPEAKER_01: Referee Fred Swaringer calls up from the dugout to someone in the press block who may or may not have been Dan Rooney or Steelers PR director Joe Gordon, which I mean that sounds totally fair to me, Tim.
1:33:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I who else would I ask?
1:33:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna ask Al Davis what his opinion is.
1:33:47
SPEAKER_01: He's all the way in Oakland.
1:33:49
SPEAKER_02: And he and he would be totally biased, whereas I'm sure the Steelers people would have given an unbiased impartial answer.
1:33:56
unknown: Yeah.
1:33:57
SPEAKER_01: But so uh yeah, it all sounds very legit to me.
1:34:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh Swearinger then signals touchdown.
1:34:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Raiders are great.
1:34:06
SPEAKER_01: They still complain about this call to this day.
1:34:08
SPEAKER_01: Defensive back George Atkinson, the play should be known as the great dis the Immaculate Deception because the public was deceived, the officials were deceived, and we got deceived.
1:34:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh John Madden, the coach of the Raiders that day.
1:34:21
SPEAKER_01: No matter how many times I watched the films of the Immaculate Reception play, I never know for sure what happened.
1:34:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh John, here I'll break it down for you.
1:34:28
SPEAKER_01: Franco caught the ball and scored, you lost.
1:34:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but but moving on, uh uh there was a physics professor from CMA, CMU named John Fed Fetkovich, and he claims that the ball had to hit Tatum to carry the 24 feet back to Franco Harris due to the laws of physics.
1:34:47
SPEAKER_01: And I uh who am I to argue with the laws of physics or Mr.
1:34:51
SPEAKER_01: Professor Fedkovich?
1:34:53
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not a science denier, so there's science there.
1:34:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Raiders, um, they do win a couple more Super Bowls and are actually one of the more successful team of the 1970s and early 80s until a track-suited Al Davis just goes nuts and decides to start moving the team all around the country and doesn't really pay attention to his football franchise, and they kind of fall into the state of disrepair they've been in a long time, which is a shame because the Raiders really are one of the great organizations in pro football, or at least they were.
1:35:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, the Steelers lose the next week to the Dolphins during the Dolphins' 1972 undefeated season.
1:35:34
SPEAKER_01: But don't feel too bad for the Steelers.
1:35:36
SPEAKER_01: They go into win four or more Super Bowls.
1:35:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh Franco gets his own statue in the airport besides George Washington.
1:35:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what did that Washington guy ever do from Pittsburgh?
1:35:45
SPEAKER_01: He never won us any football game.
1:35:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh also, you know, if we ever discuss the Immaculate Reception, it always has to be mentioned with the reverence and awe that we reserve for the Pope and deceased relatives.
1:35:58
SPEAKER_01: So make sure you uh, you know, observe it appropriately.
1:36:03
SPEAKER_02: So it's a great question, Steve, though, that you raised.
1:36:08
SPEAKER_02: Why was that a role?
1:36:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I've always wondered that I don't know.
1:36:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know that's the controversy, but that's so dumb.
1:36:14
SPEAKER_02: Like today, that play would have had no controversy because it's like, oh, so who cares if it bounced off of?
1:36:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it you feel like that's one of those things they put in like 1906, whenever like people weren't throwing forward passes and they were like, You can't touch the ball if another player touches the ball because you know they'll yeah, like they'll volley it to each other.
1:36:32
SPEAKER_02: Like what I just don't under I there there was no logical explanation, but I'd love to hear why they had that role.
1:36:41
SPEAKER_01: I I I I've never had a good explanation for it, but um like I said, I I don't understand it.
1:36:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but um hey Franco got a statue out of it, so who might argue?
1:36:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, and the controversy is what makes the play, what what is part of what makes the play like relive to this day.
1:37:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the guy who has the Immaculate Reception ball has it like in some like vault in like West Mifflin where if you want to go see, you gotta pay like 20 bucks.
1:37:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, so there, you know, if you got nothing to do on like a Friday afternoon and you want to got 20 bucks to blow, you know, go go see the Immaculate Reception ball.
1:37:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like I don't know.
1:37:20
SPEAKER_01: But um, that's it.
1:37:21
SPEAKER_01: That's the good, the bad, and the ugly.
1:37:23
SPEAKER_01: I hope you had some fun and Cartharsis with us.
1:37:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh thanks for tuning in, and uh, we'll see you on the uh next uh episode of uh Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
1:37:32
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everybody.
1:37:36
SPEAKER_00: This is the year for Pennsylvania, the music is Stadium.
1:37:40
SPEAKER_00: lady.
1:37:41
SPEAKER_00: Fourth down, one second left.
1:37:43
SPEAKER_00: Michigan trailing by four.
1:37:45
SPEAKER_00: Henney fires to the end zone.
1:37:47
SPEAKER_00: Touchdown Manningham.
1:37:49
SPEAKER_00: Michigan wins.