Latest / Buying Local Podcast / The Importance of Growth Mindset | Buying Local S3E46

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The Importance of Growth Mindset | Buying Local S3E46 · Buying Local Podcast

• 0:00
  What's up everybody, and welcome back to Buying Local.
• 0:02
  I'm your host Mike Nelson from 5 Towers Media.
• 0:05
  We actually have a little bit of a podcast crossover going on
• 0:09
  today. We did an interview a few weeks
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  ago with Jason Spector and Stacey Spector from Catamount
• 0:14
  Consulting on our other podcast, Blue Collar Startup.
• 0:18
  If you have not checked that out, check it out.
• 0:20
  It's a gaining in popularity. Let's say we're currently the
• 0:23
  number six out of the top 35, both podcasts in the Blue
• 0:27
  collar. See my hat here in the blue
• 0:30
  collar classification here. So Scott and Stacey talking
• 0:34
  about a lot of great stuff with mindset and involved in what
• 0:38
  they do with some of their mindset coaching and leadership
• 0:41
  training with Catamount Consulting.
• 0:42
  So give it a listen, check out the show and you'll hear from us
• 0:46
  next week. Thanks everybody.
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  So join today and I'll let you guys introduce yourself and
• 0:52
  Stacey, of course, you've been on the show a few Times Now, but
• 0:54
  we're joined by your husband, Jason.
• 0:58
  Hi, how are you? Fantastic, fantastic.
• 1:01
  You know, it's, it's funny, I don't know if you know or not,
• 1:03
  but we have communicated in the past years ago, and we're
• 1:08
  probably talking 10 years ago, I was trying to put together a, it
• 1:11
  was called the Novo Summit and it was when I was still doing
• 1:14
  consulting and we're trying to bring together a bunch of
• 1:18
  speakers in the personal professional development space.
• 1:21
  And somehow I've gotten hooked up with you and we were emailing
• 1:23
  back and forth and then we ended up having to cancel the event,
• 1:26
  unfortunately. But you and I were communicating
• 1:28
  via e-mail because I think was a sweethearts and heroes.
• 1:32
  Yeah, That was an organization that I started years ago and we
• 1:38
  had a really good run and I pivoted during COVID away from
• 1:43
  that, but they still are very. Successful they're still going
• 1:45
  strong that's awesome and that was a lot of that was around
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  like anti bullying campaigns and.
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  Yeah, and proud to say born and ignited in my brain from the
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  work that I was doing in schools, I just, I had this
• 2:00
  epiphany about 10 years into education that you could teach
• 2:04
  someone to be empathetic. So it really wasn't, I never
• 2:08
  wanted it to be an anti bullying movement, but it was certainly
• 2:11
  coined as that. But I really always wanted it to
• 2:14
  be an empathy movement and that was where the focus was.
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  I got to be honest, when I first heard about Sweethearts and
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  Heroes and you and I were communicating, I didn't realize
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  that you were what are you, 6263?
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  I like to say 63. You like to say 6 three for
• 2:31
  those of you listening, they can't see on camera.
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  You're a big guy, man, like you're tall.
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  You're an, I would say an intimidating looking fella.
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  And I don't say that in a bad way.
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  I just I say it because it's so opposite of what you'd expect to
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  see from someone that is talking about anti bullying and in that
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  space and bringing that message forward.
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  So I think it's really cool. I'd like.
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  Yeah, that was one of our hooks. You know, it was confounding.
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  But what people don't realize, and I think that as we unfold
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  some of the value that I hope to kind of share today, You know, I
• 3:04
  was bullied in 5th and 6th grade.
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  And the only reason I joined wrestling was because of my best
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  friend who was really that sweetheart kind of a guy for me.
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  And it was coaches that taught me how to be competitive in
• 3:18
  wrestling. And I was probably one of the
• 3:20
  wimpiest kids you could imagine. I had two sisters.
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  I had a great mom and dad. I was pretty soft right until
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  that middle school age when I started competing.
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  And, you know, I transformed through about a, you know, four
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  year career in high school into college into a very competitive
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  wrestler. But I my my start was I was very
• 3:41
  soft and and scared to get on the school bus for much of my
• 3:45
  middle school career. That's wild.
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  Do you ever see any of those guys that bullied you?
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  Now you give them the luck like I remember.
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  In my late 20s, I ran into one of them and that he slammed my
• 3:58
  head against. He was the counter and he was
• 4:00
  one of the older students on the bus and he would count the kids
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  and give the bus driver the number and take attendance or
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  whatever. And you know, I don't know what
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  the issue was, but he didn't like my I must have said
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  something or been pulling around.
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  He slammed my head against the window.
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  And I had I had seen him out in a in a social setting.
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  And I say, you remember when you slammed my head against the
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  window? And he didn't really know where
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  I was going, but I let it go. You let it go.
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  That's that's nice of you. That's.
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  But I still remember, I can tell.
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  You. I bet you do.
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  Yeah, well, that's the, that's the real powerful piece of
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  bullying is Everyone has a story.
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  Yeah. Even if you weren't bullied
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  directly, you have a relation to it, someone in your family or
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  you observed it and didn't do anything about.
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  Everyone has a story that connects to that and that sticks
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  in our memory for a lifetime. Yeah, I actually got my ass
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  kicked pretty good when I was younger a few times and a couple
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  of them was because another kid was getting bullied and I was
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  trying to stand up for my friend and I got my nose broke one time
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  and got my eye cut open one time.
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  Like it's it happens, man. It's a real thing.
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  Hopefully it happens less than it used to, but.
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  Yeah, that's unfortunate, but those are like honorary badges.
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  I guess so. I mean, I, I still got a scar in
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  my eye to remember it and I, but I do remember those things very
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  vividly. I mean, I think, you know, when
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  you're growing up and you're a young kid like that, you
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  probably remember those things more clearly, those traumatic
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  events than you do the, the, the good memories and the happy
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  stuff, right? Definitely seems to have more of
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  a long staying effect on you, but.
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  Yeah. You know, during that time I had
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  written some articles that were publicized in Chad's magazine
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  and Saratoga. And from a parenting
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  perspective, because there's a lot of errors that I think that
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  we make as as well, meaning, you know, loving parents that don't
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  necessarily prepare our kids for that.
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  The mean switch turns around, turns on right around 4th and
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  5th grade. It's getting younger these days
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  with smartphones, but you know that middle school level is
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  really a challenging time for every kid, and our parents don't
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  necessarily prepare for it as much as they could.
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  Yeah. So I know that we're going to,
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  we're going to connect this all kind of to the trades and and
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  that stuff. But before we get into that,
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  maybe just kind of give the audience an overview of who you
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  are today. What you do, Obviously you're
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  you're, you do a couple of things, you're with Catamount,
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  but you also are in the education system.
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  So maybe just give us kind of the overview of that.
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  Yes, on my high school phys Ed teacher, I always like to say
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  I'm just a gym coach, but you know, internally I certainly
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  identify by way more than that. I have a tattoo on my forearm of
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  Captain Spectacular. So I, I identify as a real life
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  superhero. I, I separate myself a little
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  bit from a lot of my colleagues because I, I tend to think real
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  extreme in a lot of ways, both directions.
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  I don't lose sight of the fact that a kid could go home and
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  take their own life and in any given day or a kid could come
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  back tomorrow and try and harm us all.
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  And you know, those are two of the greatest threats that we
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  face in public education that people don't like to talk about
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  because it's uncomfortable. But I think that it's relevant
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  and important. And I think a lot of the work
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  that's being done in schools around trauma informed care and
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  around social emotional supports and mental health and
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  restorative justice, different programming and things like
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  that, I think are all kind of speaking to those threats.
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  But we certainly don't want to alarm people.
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  But I think that, you know, in my role, I identified about 10
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  years in, as you know, I am a gym teacher, but I'm here to
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  provide positive social emotional experiences for kids
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  through the physical. So I just branded myself a
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  little bit differently and got a lot more mindful about my
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  interaction. So as a phys Ed teacher, I teach
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  strength and conditioning at the high school level.
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  I have a class called Peak Performance.
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  Currently, I'm in a TOSA position, which is a teacher on
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  special assignment. So I'm a mindset coach for our
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  athletes and I don't really have a schedule.
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  I'm in the weight room all day and I'll personal train a kid
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  that's college bound, or I'll work one-on-one with a student
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  with special needs, or I'll just assist in the daily practices of
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  a of a class and assist the other gentleman I teach with.
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  So I'm in a pretty cool spot in the the high School at South
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  Glenn Smalls. And that's S Glenn Smalls.
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  I was going to ask. Yeah.
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  And, you know, that was all I think created through some of
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  the work that I've done. I mean, there for the last five
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  years, I've never taken a break. I in my off blocks, we have 80
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  minute blocks. I don't, I, I leave the weight
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  room open lunch. I let kids come in on top of
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  classes. So if I have a class, I'll let
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  kids sign out of study hall or come in during lunch and utilize
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  the weight room. And you know, I could have about
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  50 kids in there at one time. And the weight room lends itself
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  well to that number of kids. A class size is somewhere around
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  2527 Max, but you know, I can handle 50 because the
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  environment is really rich and active and functional and you
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  can have that many people in our space.
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  So it's unique that way. And because of the interest that
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  I've created, they needed to kind of create my teacher on
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  special assignment role. So now we have two adults in
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  there and then it works really, really well.
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  And I've seen some amazing transformations and not just in
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  student athletes and actually more so in the non athletes, the
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  kids that have, you know, some circumstance that they want to,
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  you know, try to improve themselves or better themselves.
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  So that's been really rewarding and and enjoyable.
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  And my 20 going in my 27th year and teaching, I've coached
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  wrestling for 18 seasons in my career.
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  I don't do that anymore. I stop when my kids got middle
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  school age. Currently I work with Catamount
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  kind of in the side hustle space when I'm not in school, doing
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  leadership coaching and mindset around that.
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  I do mindset for Castleton College.
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  So I have kind of a performance psychology background and you
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  know, I spend a lot of time in wrestling and mixed martial
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  arts. So yeah, that's pretty much the,
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  you know, most of what I do. Yeah, on the, you mentioned
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  mindset coaching with your students and I think, you know,
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  this is something that we hear more and more and more and I
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  feel like maybe, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, maybe five
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  years ago, it used to be kind of woo a little bit, right?
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  Like you're like a mindset, you know, that kind of stuff.
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  But it really, I think especially over the last few
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  years, I've seen such a real growth in that industry of
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  mindset coaching and people focusing on mindset.
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  For the people in the audience that aren't aware of what we're
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  talking about, can you just kind of give us a like a description
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  or definition? Yeah, so I'm not a sports
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  psychologist or a psychologist, but I have an very robust
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  background in it and I'm certified in mindset mastery
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  through a mentor by the name of Brian Kane, who is nationally,
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  you know, he'll work with a university for $100,000 contract
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  and one of their Division One teams.
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  He also works with professional athletes and MLB and UFC.
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  He's, he's worked the brilliant thing he just recently got into
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  in the last several years is being a caddy and Professional
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  Golf. You're right there and you can
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  get inside the mind of your, your athlete on the, you know,
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  on the course. That's kind of neat.
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  But I have a certification under him.
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  And so it's called mindset mastery.
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  But I'd spent a lot of time in sports psychology and college as
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  an athlete. But the idea that you know, the
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  2 greatest what it's just everywhere.
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  It's so fascinating when you start doing this stuff with like
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  large groups and, and especially with students in school.
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  Last year was a real learning year.
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  I knew what I I knew what I knew and I had some experience with
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  it with some of my teams and several coach, you know,
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  coaching opportunities. But until I started working with
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  cross country, track and field, indoor and outdoor bowling,
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  skiing, and then obviously the traditional soccer and baseball
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  and softball. Negative self talk is a
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  contagion which is also similar but not the same as self doubt.
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  So every student athlete, especially some of these really
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  high performing ones that we just would assume are like
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  college bound Division One commits or even Division Three
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  commits, they have negative self talk and they self doubt.
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  And so we have to be doing something to work on that.
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  And one of the cliched kind of disruptors that we use are just
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  attention getters is 99% of the most important competition of
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  the year will be a physical preparation, but 99% of that
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  competition will be a mental challenge.
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  And whether you perform or don't perform will be dictated by the
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  six inch base between your ears. So why aren't we addressing
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  that? And so our, you know, our
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  administration and our athletic director and our school, you
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  know, has a that's sees that as an important focus.
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  Well, it's, you know, it's funny you talk about sports, but it's
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  like, you know, when the NBA player steps up to the free
• 12:51
  throw line, they've shot that shot 1000 times, right?
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  But they still miss. And what do we call it when they
• 12:58
  miss that? Oh, they choked, right?
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  Which is all. It's not about the mechanics,
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  it's not about the physicality. It's about what's going on
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  between your ears, right, Right. Is that?
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  Fair to for sure. And then like I was working with
• 13:09
  our girls soccer this morning and I explained to them that a
• 13:12
  reset breath we we use a physiological sigh.
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  Andrew Huberman talks. Yeah, I love it.
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  I use that all the time by the way.
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  So when you do two of those or two or three of those especially
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  like on change of possession or during, you know, a corner kick
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  or whatever, there's plenty of opportunities in a game
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  situation. But you're when you do that, the
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  scientific value is you have a lower heart rate, lower blood
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  pressure, lower cortisol experience.
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  So now you're a more functional athlete.
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  And I like to think of it, and I'm just making this up, but I
• 13:42
  think it would probably be backed by science if I extracted
• 13:45
  blood. After you do that, there's going
• 13:47
  to be more oxygen, right? So you have a more oxygenated
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  system. You're better in an executive
• 13:53
  state rather than a limbic state or a stress state.
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  So it just makes perfect sense. Why aren't we teaching resets,
• 14:00
  reset breaths or physiological size during changes of
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  possessions or during timeouts in game situations?
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  And I don't know. We should be when this doesn't
• 14:09
  get done. Well, you know, I mean again to
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  what we said earlier, I mean, 10-15 years ago breathwork was
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  totally woo, right? Like just the hippies at the
• 14:17
  yoga studio did that. And I can say that too by the
• 14:19
  way, 'cause my wife owns yoga studio.
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  But like that was something that really was a wasn't talked
• 14:25
  about, wasn't it studied, you know, and now breath work is
• 14:30
  huge. There's tons of research on it.
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  And it's not just about mindfulness and meditation,
• 14:34
  which are great things, but things like the psychological
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  sigh or box breathing or, you know, the Wim Hof method or all
• 14:40
  these things are coming out now that there's a real benefit for
• 14:43
  sure, whether you're a welder or a professional athlete, that you
• 14:48
  can use these things as tools. It's wild.
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  I. Just think in general to sort of
• 14:51
  the, and, and to the benefit of us all that the, the sort of
• 14:56
  tide has shifted in the sense that, you know, 10-15 years ago,
• 15:00
  even if you were looking at the space of mental Wellness and
• 15:03
  mindset, it still wasn't talked about because it was kind of
• 15:06
  like nobody needs to know that, right?
• 15:08
  It wasn't, it wasn't something that you openly talked about and
• 15:12
  shared, especially with the stigma attached to, you know,
• 15:15
  mental health, like, you know, you didn't want to show that
• 15:17
  side of things. But now that it's more prevalent
• 15:20
  and everybody can, you know, relate to this, this issue that
• 15:24
  we all deal with, with anxiety, depression and needing tools to
• 15:28
  just make it through your day-to-day lives, whether you're
• 15:31
  high performing athlete or in construction or trade space.
• 15:36
  It's it's just more talked about.
• 15:38
  And now people can see the value of it where discussions weren't
• 15:42
  had. You know, we see even the
• 15:45
  athletes in the Olympic level now are openly sharing their
• 15:49
  struggles with the mindset piece and the mental health piece and
• 15:53
  being open about it to the point where, you know, Simone Biles,
• 15:56
  she was like a platform to pull herself out of the Olympics
• 15:59
  because she was struggling with it.
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  And I think the door has opened where more people are open to
• 16:04
  talk about it and like collectively can share the value
• 16:07
  of. It Yeah, well, and there's, you
• 16:09
  know, I'm sure you guys know who Tim Grover is.
• 16:11
  You know, like when it came out that Tim worked with people like
• 16:16
  Michael Jordan and Kobe and all these high level performers.
• 16:20
  And now to this day where, you know, they worked Andy Frisella
• 16:22
  or all these other like high level business people, not even
• 16:25
  athletes, but just high level business people on their
• 16:28
  mindset, on a growth mindset and really working on that space
• 16:32
  between your ears. Because as I mean, I can speak
• 16:34
  from being a business owner, probably one of the bigger
• 16:37
  struggles I have is what goes on in my head from a day-to-day
• 16:39
  basis. It's not what we do and how we
• 16:41
  do it or the billing. It's my attitude towards it and
• 16:45
  how I feel about it and the stories I'm telling myself that
• 16:48
  may not even be based in reality, but I'm still doing it
• 16:50
  like we all do. It's huge and it's great to see
• 16:53
  that it's coming so much to the forefront and people are talking
• 16:56
  about it. Yeah, the Tim Grover wrote
• 16:59
  Relentless. So I got hooked.
• 17:01
  I was like, yeah, that's been a while since I touched that one,
• 17:03
  but. It's funny you say that too,
• 17:06
  because I literally was just listening to a real AF episode
• 17:09
  with Andy Frisello the other day and Tim was on the show and they
• 17:12
  were talking about the book and I was like, I need to read that
• 17:14
  book. Again, he's got the closer, the
• 17:16
  cleaner and something. Yeah.
• 17:18
  Really good stuff. Yeah.
• 17:19
  Yeah. And then that when he's talking
• 17:20
  about his experiences with Michael Jordan.
• 17:22
  Like, yeah. Yeah, that's something to lean
• 17:24
  into. Or like with Kobe Bryant
• 17:26
  shooting free throws at 3:00 in the morning just because he knew
• 17:29
  nobody else would be and he wanted to be the best and that's
• 17:31
  what it was going to take. Like that's that that mindset,
• 17:34
  right? Like you got to be able to do
• 17:37
  whatever it takes to be at your best.
• 17:40
  That's why I love it. I think it's great.
• 17:42
  So, so on that mindset and I know that we, you know, we
• 17:48
  talked a little bit about before the episode, though, but you you
• 17:51
  did kind of touch on and I and I, I would like to talk about it
• 17:54
  now. It's just like like you talked
• 17:56
  about wrestling background, because I know I always remember
• 17:59
  growing up as kids that the kids that were on the wrestling team
• 18:02
  always had this like, I don't know, presence this.
• 18:06
  They were a little off. Yeah.
• 18:09
  I mean, they're definitely, you know, anybody that's willing to
• 18:11
  cut weight and do the things that they do is a little
• 18:13
  touched, right. But but outside of that though,
• 18:15
  like you could, when we would go to a party or we'd go to a
• 18:18
  whatever it was, I mean, these guys always stood out as just
• 18:21
  being able, self assured, I think might be the term that I
• 18:24
  would use, right. And we were talking a little bit
• 18:28
  about wrestling and things like that and how it supports a
• 18:33
  growth mindset or or adding a growth mindset to the skills are
• 18:37
  already gaining on the mat. Can we just touch on that a
• 18:40
  little bit? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 18:42
  I mean, I don't want to stand here and put wrestling on a
• 18:46
  pedestal, but the fact remains, I mean, Joe Rogan will go into
• 18:50
  detail why it's the hardest sport there is.
• 18:52
  Yeah, it it. There's UFC fighters that say
• 18:55
  wrestling is way more difficult than competing in MMA and you
• 18:59
  can certainly breakdown while you can't get kicked in the head
• 19:01
  and wrestling, but there's some other reasons they say that.
• 19:03
  But I I think that wrestling is probably the most vulnerable
• 19:08
  experience a human being can have in competition.
• 19:12
  I always joke and say you know they put you in a woman's
• 19:14
  bathing suit in 7th grade when you're the most underdeveloped.
• 19:18
  Those singlets. Yeah.
• 19:20
  And so like to go out there and stand in that thing and
• 19:23
  honestly, as a kind of a chubby, you know, bigger, I was like
• 19:26
  almost 6 foot tall in 8th grade, but I think I weighed 190.
• 19:30
  So I didn't get a lot of opportunities to compete, but
• 19:32
  just to go out and wrestle. I was more concerned with how I
• 19:35
  looked in my singlet and was like, you know, nervous about
• 19:38
  what people are going to. I don't even remember the match
• 19:41
  right. And so like the self esteem
• 19:43
  piece and then, you know, you transition into a higher level
• 19:47
  of competition at the varsity level.
• 19:49
  And I mean, I remember, you know, having to win the my match
• 19:53
  to win the dual meet. Those moments are just like just
• 19:56
  incredible. But to get beat is to be
• 20:00
  controlled by another human. Your age, your weight, your
• 20:03
  height, your size, you know, your ability level in front of
• 20:05
  everybody you know and. And love, I'd rather get beat up
• 20:08
  by three guys with bats. You know, they have that
• 20:10
  experience. Not really.
• 20:12
  But seriously, like that's an experience.
• 20:15
  And the growth mindset is this idea that it's a process based
• 20:20
  focus. And for whatever reason, I've
• 20:22
  always really, I ran into a former coach back when I
• 20:26
  wrestled in the 90s, the late 80s and early 90s.
• 20:30
  It was the idea that, you know, you find these really tough
• 20:33
  people to bring in as assistant coaches to kick the crap out of
• 20:36
  you. And that would make you tougher,
• 20:38
  that would make you better. And, and this guy did that
• 20:40
  really, really intensely. And he said to me, because I
• 20:43
  don't know why you, you just would never quit.
• 20:45
  You keep, you know, and I don't think I was the strongest or
• 20:48
  fastest, but I would never quit. And going into college, we
• 20:53
  wrestled. I wrestled Division Three at
• 20:55
  SUNY Brockport, but we would compete Division One schedule.
• 20:57
  And it sounds like I might be bragging or embellishing, but
• 21:00
  no, dude, like West Virginia Open, Ohio State Open, Michigan
• 21:03
  State Open. I mean, I wrestled one of the
• 21:05
  number one guys on the US national team and I had them
• 21:08
  beat, but the last 30 seconds he reversed me to win it.
• 21:11
  And you know, my coach never let me live that down.
• 21:13
  But the guy was in his mid to late 20s and I was a 19 year old
• 21:17
  kid, right? It was just a great match up for
• 21:20
  me because I was able to keep it real close and I was ahead with
• 21:22
  30 seconds left. But the experience of doing
• 21:27
  that, I didn't really ever try to win in college.
• 21:30
  I just tried to put 7 minutes of hell into the match.
• 21:34
  And then however the dust settled was going to be because
• 21:37
  you know, if we were competing Division Three all season, I
• 21:39
  would have cared more about winning.
• 21:40
  But wrestling against unbeatable full ride scholarship level
• 21:44
  guys, I mean my freshman year we had to wrestle Ohio State and
• 21:48
  Missouri and it's like Ohio State had national champions in
• 21:52
  their line up. So it was quite an experience to
• 21:54
  get that opportunity. I mean, I went to Nebraska and
• 21:59
  I'm looking around and I'm looking at the guy that Kurt
• 22:01
  Angle beat in the finals year before my eye level at weigh
• 22:05
  insurance. He was behind me in line.
• 22:07
  He's University of North Carolina heavyweight.
• 22:10
  He's Russian. Sylvester Turquay was his nipple
• 22:13
  was in line with my eye. The guy was like 6 foot 7.
• 22:16
  And I'm like, Oh my God, I hope I don't have him.
• 22:19
  I didn't know what school he was.
• 22:20
  And I'm looking over at this fat guy in the corner wrestling
• 22:23
  around. I'm like, I hope I get that guy.
• 22:25
  It was Rulon Gardner. Oh wow.
• 22:28
  Yeah, because Rowan Gardner is not gifted with, like, a real
• 22:31
  muscular body type. But I'm like, I can beat that
• 22:33
  guy. I think, no, you can't.
• 22:35
  He's one of the like, you know, most incredible heavyweights to
• 22:39
  ever walk Earth. Beating Alexander Coralin, the
• 22:41
  Russian, who, you know, had never been beating the Olympics.
• 22:44
  But yeah, that was my freshman year in college.
• 22:47
  So I've always had this, like, 7 minutes of hell yeah.
• 22:51
  And then let the dust settle. So how do you translate that or
• 22:55
  how can people translate that into the real world?
• 22:59
  Like what's the connection? Well, so the growth mindset is
• 23:02
  just this process based focus and I'll use what I went over
• 23:07
  with my girls soccer team today and my girls volleyball team and
• 23:11
  I'll use through all of the sports teams that I go into to
• 23:15
  kick off the season. If you look at a performance,
• 23:19
  whether it's, you know, it's lunchtime and you look back at
• 23:22
  how your morning went, what were your three ES?
• 23:25
  And the three ES are a process based focus.
• 23:28
  So E. The first E is emotional
• 23:31
  composure. Did you maintain your emotional
• 23:33
  composure? Were you sturdy and you're, you
• 23:36
  know, were you resilient? And if you can say yes, then you
• 23:39
  had a pretty good performance. The second E is your energy.
• 23:43
  Did you have big energy or were you lacking in energy?
• 23:46
  And energy in athletics can be body language, facial
• 23:49
  expressions, but that's energy at work too, right?
• 23:52
  And then the third one is evidence.
• 23:54
  Are you showing evidence of what you're capable of doing?
• 23:56
  Are you performing basically, or are you kind of faltering?
• 23:59
  And I say that to that to my student athletes, I'll say, you
• 24:03
  know, this is the three E's to how to be a good loser.
• 24:06
  And that's confounding. And they're like, why do you
• 24:07
  want me to be a good loser? Because when you're in a losing
• 24:09
  situation, if you're good at it, you can come from behind and you
• 24:13
  can win. So it's really how you upset
• 24:15
  people and it's how you come from behind.
• 24:18
  So being a good, you know, we never teach kids how to be a
• 24:20
  good loser. We teach them how to be winners.
• 24:23
  And then if they're losing, they become emotionally uncomposed,
• 24:26
  their energy fails. And then you start to see body
• 24:29
  language issues and racial expressions and posture and then
• 24:33
  you know, you don't see the evidence that you know that
• 24:35
  they're capable of. So that's a process based focus.
• 24:38
  It's, it's not the outcome, it's the process.
• 24:41
  And we have several other ways to kind of break that down, but
• 24:45
  I just, I love the idea of being a process focus.
• 24:48
  Well, yeah, it makes it usable, yeah.
• 24:50
  If there's a process like step one, Step 2, Step 3, or chunk 1,
• 24:53
  chunk 2, chunk 3, to be able to look at it and dissect what
• 24:57
  you're doing and then apply it and make changes.
• 25:00
  And it's funny because when you're talking about it too, I
• 25:03
  think about obviously, I can remember high school sports, I
• 25:05
  can remember that feeling of when we'd start to lose and
• 25:08
  you'd feel the team's energy right change.
• 25:12
  And then you'd watch momentum start going the other way.
• 25:15
  And that's when you started to start getting clobbered.
• 25:17
  And I, I can relate it to now in business, there's times in my
• 25:24
  business where we've got momentum and we've, you know,
• 25:25
  we've got energy, we are moving, man.
• 25:27
  Things are hitting, everything's going the way it's supposed to
• 25:29
  go. And then it changes.
• 25:32
  And I feel that feeling. And I'm like, oh shit, man.
• 25:34
  Like I need to get on the other side of this.
• 25:36
  And how do I do that? And so having a process to be
• 25:38
  able to take, whether it's sales are down or we've got a morale
• 25:42
  problem with our team or whatever, workloads heavy and
• 25:45
  people, you know, whatever it is.
• 25:46
  And being able to figure out a way, and having a process to
• 25:49
  figure out that way, it's a pretty useful tool, yeah.
• 25:53
  You had me thinking on something.
• 25:55
  I'll jump in with the carryover then.
• 25:57
  What does that look like in the trade space?
• 25:59
  So we just came back from a training in Pittsburgh area and
• 26:04
  we worked with a really interesting company.
• 26:05
  They're one of four companies in the country that do this.
• 26:08
  They sink mine shaft. So for the intake and exhaust of
• 26:13
  air for underground mines, they build the shafts.
• 26:17
  They're amazing, like go down 1400 feet.
• 26:19
  They build a concrete, basically 20 foot wide tube.
• 26:22
  That's what they do, that's what they specialize in, and they've
• 26:25
  been at the top of their game. And now how does growth mindset
• 26:28
  conversation carry over to a group like that?
• 26:30
  Well, we go in and we have and teach and, and give, you know,
• 26:35
  anecdotal stories that may be relatable to something that the
• 26:40
  workforce has experienced as a young athlete or growing up.
• 26:44
  And, you know, sort of give them the the content of how that
• 26:49
  applies to when they complain about their new hires and and
• 26:53
  nobody's showing up at their doorstep or anyone that is
• 26:56
  showing up doesn't have the skill set that they need.
• 27:00
  And they feel like they're in this losing battle.
• 27:02
  And they just are irate over the fact that nobody knows how to
• 27:05
  read a tape measure. And if they give an instruction,
• 27:07
  they have to give it 15 times. Well, we got to have a
• 27:10
  conversation about growth mindset and we got to break it
• 27:12
  down into the process based type micro steps, mundane sometimes.
• 27:18
  And then the growth mindset says, yeah, they will eventually
• 27:21
  get it, but you got to break it down into this micro stuff.
• 27:23
  So it's, it serves a purpose both for those new hires that,
• 27:26
  yeah, you'll eventually get it, failures, feedback, there'll be
• 27:29
  lots of failures. And then also for the seasoned
• 27:32
  veteran who is struggling and wanting to pull their hair out
• 27:35
  because they don't have anybody to what they would consider
• 27:39
  qualified showing up on their doorstep.
• 27:40
  And they don't know how to handle it because they never had
• 27:42
  to in the past. And they'll talk, you know,
• 27:44
  they've had in the past 20 years ago where people were lined up
• 27:47
  to work for him. And people would come to the job
• 27:50
  site, wait in their car for a guy to quit so they could jump
• 27:53
  in into the roster that doesn't exist anymore and they don't
• 27:56
  know how to navigate it. It's interesting, I hear that
• 27:58
  problem all the time from people that have been in business for,
• 28:01
  you know, 20-30 years. They're like, you know, the I
• 28:05
  just can't find good help and it's like, but they're out
• 28:08
  there, right? Like.
• 28:10
  Yeah, and, and I think the thing that I thought of Stacey saved
• 28:13
  me is one of my mantras for my wrestling team when I I think
• 28:17
  running a wrestling program. And and you know, I know that
• 28:21
  this is a blue collar startup is the, is the podcast.
• 28:24
  And we haven't really talked about the Stonewall work that
• 28:27
  I've been doing since when I was in college because in the
• 28:29
  summers I like to, you know, take off my gym sneakers and put
• 28:32
  on my work boots. But and then I'm very eager to
• 28:34
  get back to school and put on my gym sneakers.
• 28:38
  And yeah, and and, you know, we've built stonewalls over
• 28:41
  Christmas break too on frozen lakefronts.
• 28:43
  But anyway, I had this mantra for my whole wrestling coaching
• 28:49
  career of win ugly and that would be our mantra.
• 28:51
  It was on a lot of our shirts and a lot of our signage and a
• 28:54
  lot of our branding. And that's a, that's a growth
• 28:56
  mindset, you know, and you're like, well, wait a minute, you
• 28:59
  just said win. That's an outcome.
• 29:00
  Well, I don't know who's going to win, but I'll guarantee it's
• 29:03
  going to get freaking ugly. And so that was how we
• 29:06
  translated it. So and then I would say it's
• 29:09
  kind of recruit, Hey, we're the only sport that puts win on our
• 29:11
  shirt. But it's so I kind of go back
• 29:14
  and forth with a little bit, but you know, I don't care who wins,
• 29:16
  but I guarantee this, it'll be ugly.
• 29:18
  And that's what went ugly meant. So it was, you know, permission
• 29:21
  to lose, but it will be a guaranteed 6 minutes of hell
• 29:25
  right at the high school level. But I think that's important.
• 29:28
  But I really feel like unless you think we should pivot a
• 29:31
  different way, I think the Devon story will speak to what you're
• 29:34
  saying. A lot of people are, you know,
• 29:35
  frustrated with the quality of new hires and people that are
• 29:39
  struggling with the onboarding and and you know, some of these
• 29:43
  kids that come right out of high school from a vocational program
• 29:47
  that aren't really qualified or fit to do the work that they're
• 29:51
  hired to do. And so we this story is, you
• 29:55
  know, it's one of even for me who I thought I was doing such a
• 29:59
  great job. You know, maybe 15 years into my
• 30:02
  career, I really started to see things differently and felt like
• 30:04
  I had the understate good deep understanding of both mindset.
• 30:07
  I had this wrestler who he was, he brought to me by the special
• 30:12
  Ed teacher as a 10th grader. And I was like, well, why don't
• 30:15
  I know you? Like I know every kid in the
• 30:17
  school and he's like, I never came to middle school.
• 30:20
  Like how do you never come to middle school?
• 30:21
  These guys skip school and they, they couldn't make me go.
• 30:23
  I refused. And I was like, well, OK, so now
• 30:27
  you're in high school. And he goes, yeah, I got too
• 30:28
  old. They put me in high school.
• 30:30
  I. Said.
• 30:31
  So the special Ed teachers, you have to wrestle and he brought
• 30:35
  them to me like a month late. So it's like hard to start late
• 30:38
  and I'm like, oh God, this kids going to be a mess.
• 30:39
  So anyway, Fast forward, we're at the end of the season and
• 30:44
  we're at a make up snow day over in Whitehall and this kids in a
• 30:47
  war and the varsity hadn't even started yet.
• 30:49
  He's wrestling JVI mean I know his name, but I haven't seen him
• 30:52
  wrestle much because I'm the varsity coach.
• 30:54
  You know, it's just a lot going on.
• 30:56
  And so now I'm way too involved in his match and he's like so
• 31:00
  close to winning. And I'm screaming way too
• 31:03
  energized for this little JV bout with two kids that don't
• 31:06
  even know what they're doing. And so I'm punching my assistant
• 31:09
  coach in the leg. I'm saying things that probably
• 31:11
  could get me fired like this kid so stupid.
• 31:13
  He doesn't. And so he lost the match.
• 31:15
  It was like 16 to 15, which is an outrageous, you know, it's
• 31:18
  like 2 puppies rolling around and I'm freaking out.
• 31:21
  So he stands up and the end of match procedure, they shake
• 31:24
  hands and the references the other guy's hand.
• 31:26
  It's also the only sport where they raise the other opponent's
• 31:28
  hand and so raise the hand and then he our guy smiling ear to
• 31:32
  ear, like glowing with pride. I'm like this son of a gun is so
• 31:37
  like punch drunk he doesn't even know he lost.
• 31:40
  And now I'm infuriated. He jogs over, shakes the other
• 31:42
  coaches hands. He's making a big deal out of
• 31:44
  it. Jogs by the Bleacher.
• 31:45
  He's got his chest puffed out. He comes to me.
• 31:47
  I can tell he's coming in for a hug.
• 31:49
  And I pumped the brakes. I go, whoa, wait a second, dude,
• 31:52
  we don't hug. We're not going to celebrate.
• 31:54
  What are you? You're smiling.
• 31:56
  You just lost and you should have won.
• 31:58
  And he goes and he could barely speak and he's got snot bubbles
• 32:00
  come out on his nose super uncomposed.
• 32:03
  He's like, that's the first time I ever made it all 6 minutes,
• 32:05
  coach. And I shrunk in my shirt and tie
• 32:09
  my, you know, my varsity coaching attire and felt like I
• 32:12
  should crawl under the bleachers and hide because I was out of I
• 32:15
  was on a line for like the last four minutes of that match.
• 32:18
  And he was so growth mindset, survival was success.
• 32:23
  And so I really had to think on that for a while.
• 32:26
  Fast forward two seasons later, he's 31 and 3 as a senior.
• 32:31
  And he took third in the section.
• 32:34
  And the three guys that were able to outscore him to win
• 32:38
  barely made it to the end of the match.
• 32:40
  They got their asses kicked, but they happen to win.
• 32:43
  And so his style of wrestling was created through this growth
• 32:48
  mindset of 6 minutes of hell. My mantra, right?
• 32:51
  But I just couldn't see it because I was a little too
• 32:53
  outcome focused at times, right? So it was an evolution for me.
• 32:57
  But here's the here's the take away that your listeners could
• 32:59
  really benefit from. I said to him, why didn't you
• 33:01
  quit? You were so bad, you should have
• 33:04
  quit and you made it like most guys do.
• 33:06
  He says the first time I had a reason to come to school and
• 33:10
  it's the first time I ever felt like I belonged to anything.
• 33:12
  That's why he didn't go to middle school.
• 33:14
  So wrestling gave him a reason to come to school and he a sense
• 33:18
  of belonging. Now, if you look at Maslow's
• 33:20
  hierarchy, Maslow's, you know, psychology one O 1, the
• 33:24
  hierarchy of needs, these workers are showing up and they
• 33:28
  don't feel like they belong. They're showing up and they
• 33:31
  don't really have a reason to be there other than to make a
• 33:34
  paycheck. So if you give them a bigger
• 33:36
  reason, if you give them some sense of esteem or earned
• 33:39
  prestige, which is hard to do when you got a guy who can
• 33:42
  barely tie his boots or stop looking at his phone.
• 33:46
  I understand that. But it took Devin two seasons to
• 33:50
  become 31 and three. And I liken it to like, what if
• 33:54
  I gave him a guitar, he would have had the fat end up high and
• 33:57
  the skinny end on his belly, strings touching his stomach and
• 34:01
  brushing the back of the, the wood part, right?
• 34:03
  And then two years later, it's not even years, it's two
• 34:06
  seasons, which is somewhere around, you know, 10 months,
• 34:10
  right? It's a 5-6 month season.
• 34:12
  And two seasons later, the kid is like playing the guitar and
• 34:15
  everybody's singing along and he's putting on a show.
• 34:17
  I mean, that's growth, right? And so when we talk about a
• 34:21
  growth mindset, it's this idea of esteem and belonging, meeting
• 34:24
  them where they're at, feeding their needs.
• 34:27
  And that's the responsibility of a leader.
• 34:28
  And that's the work that we're doing with Catamount around
• 34:30
  leadership. And it's not, you know, it's you
• 34:34
  could get into that woo woo or kumbaya rainbows and unicorns.
• 34:37
  But like that's the human psyche, esteem and belonging.
• 34:40
  Maslow proved it. And so I think that that's a a
• 34:43
  really powerful reminder that I needed when I was 15 years into
• 34:48
  my career, kissed that he was smiling after a loss.
• 34:53
  Survival is a thing. Yeah.
• 34:55
  You know, it's, it's interesting that you say or that you said
• 34:58
  that it's the responsibility of the leader that when we're
• 35:01
  talking about these issues, the guy on his phone can barely tie
• 35:06
  his boots. And I think a lot of business
• 35:09
  owners tend to put the onus on that person, right, to figure it
• 35:13
  out. But realistically, to your point
• 35:16
  that it's our responsibility to help that guy figure out how to
• 35:19
  tie his boots, the importance of being off his phone or her phone
• 35:23
  right to the it's as great leaders we have to step up, meet
• 35:28
  them where they're at and help them find a way to get to where
• 35:32
  we need them to be. Is that fair?
• 35:33
  Like. The biggest take away from that
• 35:35
  company that Stacey was talking about, that would be an amazing
• 35:38
  episode of Dirty Jobs. I mean, you're talking about
• 35:41
  almost a mile into the earth and they're they're concreting that
• 35:45
  shaft and doing it in sections and mucking out the debris after
• 35:49
  they use the amount of explosives that they use are
• 35:52
  like they demolish buildings with like a tenth of the
• 35:55
  explosives that they use. So the stuff that they're doing
• 35:58
  is mind blowing. But the biggest take away that
• 36:01
  they had was that, you know, you have to be like granular with
• 36:06
  your directions. Like you have to explain what a
• 36:10
  pipe wrench is and what a Crescent wrench is.
• 36:12
  There's a like you have to be really detailed with this
• 36:15
  incoming, you know, generation of workers because they haven't
• 36:20
  been taught and like a lot of the guys that they're getting,
• 36:23
  they weren't parented well. And that kind of opens the
• 36:25
  conversation on hold the effing flashlight, you know, teaching
• 36:29
  style that we received. Right.
• 36:31
  And yes, Sir, yes, Sir, that's. A that's a problem in the trade
• 36:35
  space that needs to be addressed and we addressed that.
• 36:37
  But I think that for them, they had, they had we exposed in our
• 36:41
  work with them for the three days that we were there, that
• 36:44
  they have to get more granular with their communication.
• 36:48
  Hey, move that thing over there. What thing and over where and
• 36:52
  how's it going to look when it's in place?
• 36:54
  Because they would just assume that, you know, that that's how
• 36:57
  we do it. And so we, they have a ladder,
• 37:00
  you know, and then they have that's on the white board and
• 37:04
  then next to it, they have another ladder with tiny rungs.
• 37:07
  So you know that you can climb a ladder with rungs that are like
• 37:10
  a foot apart, or you can climb a ladder with rungs that are like
• 37:12
  2 inches apart. You're guaranteed to reach the
• 37:15
  top on the two. Anyone can get to the top of the
• 37:17
  two inch ladder, right? So it's this idea of like more
• 37:20
  rungs, more information, more. Details I know we whenever we're
• 37:25
  failing as an organization, it's typically because I haven't
• 37:28
  gotten into the granular stuff with my team and I'm giving them
• 37:31
  too much high level and not and just expecting them to figure
• 37:37
  out what's in between those wrongs.
• 37:40
  Right. Like I'm, I'm only giving them
• 37:41
  the big chunks and expecting them to figure out what's in
• 37:43
  between and even saying that to them like and and then wondering
• 37:47
  why we're failing on things, right.
• 37:48
  Not not that we're failing often my team's amazing, but like when
• 37:52
  there is failure, I can always tie it back to I did not give
• 37:55
  them detailed enough instruction on what it was the expectation
• 37:59
  was, what the process was, what the job was, what the the
• 38:02
  outcome expectation was. And every time and again, it
• 38:08
  just comes back to me, right, the leader of the organization
• 38:11
  and not doing exactly what you're saying right.
• 38:14
  It's fascinating. I.
• 38:14
  Think what helps when we speak to groups like that and you have
• 38:17
  some of those veterans that just like can't come to terms with
• 38:21
  why should I have to do that? I think conversations that we
• 38:24
  bring to the table and we bring, you know, group discussions to
• 38:29
  it so they can discuss it amongst themselves, but it's
• 38:32
  it's maybe making it granule as to the why behind that person
• 38:36
  showing up and not having the skills.
• 38:37
  It's not their fault. So taking that that sort of
• 38:41
  judgement that that veteran puts into the situation, we call it,
• 38:44
  you know, being more stoic is removing the judgement you place
• 38:48
  on the events that are are thrown at you at the event.
• 38:50
  Being someone that comes to the table that doesn't have the
• 38:53
  skills that you need them to have, remove that judgement,
• 38:56
  become, you know, more of the witness.
• 38:58
  So you take some of the emotion of it and understand the why.
• 39:01
  It's not their fault they didn't purposely show up to ruin your
• 39:04
  day and make your job shittier. There's a lot of rain science
• 39:07
  behind why they don't have the skill set or the communication
• 39:10
  skills or why you have to give them five steps of one, what
• 39:13
  should be a One Direction cue. And I think that helps them
• 39:18
  immensely in, in really having discussion of the why from the,
• 39:23
  the, you know, even just a conversation on common sense.
• 39:25
  That's what does common sense really mean?
• 39:27
  Well, what's common to you, right?
• 39:29
  What's common to the seasoned veteran and how they grew up and
• 39:33
  how their skill set was developed is not the same
• 39:36
  commonality for today's generation.
• 39:38
  It's not common for today's generation to be able to to go
• 39:42
  through a day without being glued to their phone, right?
• 39:45
  Or to rely on their phone as almost as a social anxiety type.
• 39:50
  Mechanism. Yeah, I get that dopamine.
• 39:51
  Make you feel so in understanding and having that
• 39:54
  conversation brought to the table.
• 39:55
  I think it helps a lot. You know, you can't just go in
• 39:58
  there and say you have to do this to have a growth mindset.
• 40:00
  Well, here's the reason why. It's not a free pass.
• 40:03
  It's not condoning it. It's helping you understand it
• 40:06
  and then developing a plan forward.
• 40:09
  On the growth mindset stuff, I could would you say that it's,
• 40:16
  and to bring it back to Devin's story right, is that it's not so
• 40:19
  much about doing it right every time, but it's about being
• 40:23
  better than you were the last time you did it?
• 40:26
  Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's just always, you
• 40:29
  know, failing forward or you know, you there's winning, you
• 40:32
  know, I'll say if I do a youth wrestling clinic, I'll say I was
• 40:35
  undefeated. They'll look at me.
• 40:37
  I never lost a match. And I'll say because I only won
• 40:40
  and learned, never lost, I classified as always a learn.
• 40:43
  So what'd you learn? And so, but you know, the The
• 40:47
  thing is, and I'm on the spot here, but I think I can pull it.
• 40:51
  Stacey, you have to fill in. But like growth mindset has
• 40:53
  three levels in my mind when we teach this first one is
• 40:56
  reframing. So you know, winning and
• 40:59
  learning is a reframe instead of winning and losing and you know,
• 41:02
  you follow like the brands brothers when you live lose you
• 41:05
  those guys, you know, like no, lose, you don't die.
• 41:08
  That's like that's their intense mindset.
• 41:10
  But like, that's how people think, sometimes are used to
• 41:14
  thinking. Well, and not to cut you off,
• 41:15
  but like if you guys aren't familiar with the brand for
• 41:18
  other the brands brands, right brothers, they're twins.
• 41:22
  They were sick wrestlers and now they're wrestling code.
• 41:26
  Those like just the looks on their faces.
• 41:29
  You see the looks those guys get.
• 41:31
  I mean, talk about intimidating like.
• 41:32
  I actually had a not a not an altercation argument, but my
• 41:37
  buddy Frank Papalizio really set me up for a moment with them
• 41:40
  with with Tom Brands. I, I was slightly critical of a
• 41:44
  wrestling clinic that I sent my team to and I one of my hardest
• 41:49
  working guys was hiding in the bathroom.
• 41:51
  I'm like, why are we hiding? What do you mean he's hiding in
• 41:53
  the bathroom? We're paying money out of our
• 41:54
  booster club. We're not hiding in the gosh
• 41:56
  darn bathroom. Like what do you mean?
• 41:58
  And it's because he was doing all this conditioning and it was
• 42:00
  like a June camp. Now a June camp should be a lot
• 42:03
  of technique. And I'm a huge fan of the Iowa
• 42:06
  style short offense brand style wrestling.
• 42:08
  So I was excited to send my guys there to get like top notch
• 42:12
  techniques. But like 3 days in it was all
• 42:15
  conditioning and there was some technique, but it like 80
• 42:17
  percent, 70% was this like conditioning experience?
• 42:20
  And I, Frank Papaliza is a good friend of mine and I'm like, hey
• 42:23
  dude, we're not here to condition.
• 42:25
  Like let's just get into some technique.
• 42:27
  Well Frank being Frank goes over and tells Tom Brand.
• 42:30
  Coach Specter takes exception to the amount of conditioning and
• 42:36
  I'm like, oh God. So probably arguably one of the
• 42:39
  toughest men on planet. Earth.
• 42:41
  Oh my God. Comes over to me.
• 42:43
  I mean, he was quoted as saying. We do things that would make a
• 42:45
  Billy go puke. That was the old Iowa wrestling
• 42:48
  ad. And he comes over, he's like, I
• 42:50
  heard you took and his voice is intimidating.
• 42:53
  I heard you took exception to the way that I'm running this
• 42:55
  clinic. I'm like, I didn't take
• 42:57
  exception. Like I'm trying backpedaling,
• 43:00
  right. And so I I just really love your
• 43:02
  style and. And, you know, so I had to back
• 43:05
  myself out of that one. But yeah, I was.
• 43:07
  That's funny. Yeah.
• 43:07
  It's terrifying. So anyway, sorry to interrupt,
• 43:10
  but I just those guys, Chad baby actually put me on to those guys
• 43:13
  originally a few years back and and watching videos of them and.
• 43:17
  And when you live lose, you die. Trample the weak and hurdle the
• 43:20
  dead. Yeah, those two things come to
• 43:22
  mind. Those guys are intense.
• 43:24
  Yeah, Tense. But like, reframing, yeah, is
• 43:28
  the thing that the Brands brothers probably don't do.
• 43:30
  But I would also say this, all joking aside, I think that Penn
• 43:33
  State has a a growth mindset. And that's where Kale Sanderson
• 43:36
  is dominating right now. And the Division One ranks in
• 43:39
  wrestling, like Penn State is unbeatable.
• 43:41
  And I think you would uncover a faith-based approach along with
• 43:44
  a growth mindset toward the sport.
• 43:47
  Wrestling, it's a game. They're playing a game.
• 43:49
  And like, no, the, you know, Iowa style is like, you know,
• 43:52
  the strong survive, survival, the fittest.
• 43:54
  It's war like. Yeah, Kill, kill, kill.
• 43:56
  But I think that they're they're reframing wrestling at Penn
• 44:00
  State. So the first step of growth
• 44:02
  mindset is to reframe. It's not an alarm clock, it's an
• 44:04
  opportunity clock. It's kind of quirky and silly,
• 44:06
  but it's a mindset thing, right? The second thing is process
• 44:09
  based focus. And if you're process based
• 44:11
  focus, you're looking at like, you know, the three ES.
• 44:14
  So it's this like showcase, you got a match tomorrow?
• 44:17
  No, I have a showcase. I'm going to showcase the stuff
• 44:19
  I've been working on. It's my opportunity.
• 44:21
  And that was one thing I worked on with Matt Secor and I did a
• 44:24
  lot of mindset for Matt and it was it was about the Matt Secor
• 44:27
  show. He didn't look at it as go out
• 44:29
  and you got to win or you got to even succeed.
• 44:33
  It was this, I'm going to go out and put on a show.
• 44:35
  So capturing that idea. And so I really like to reframe
• 44:39
  that process based focus. And then the last part of it is
• 44:43
  this idea that our brains are malleable.
• 44:46
  And so our brains are plastic and we can develop any skill.
• 44:51
  So if you're struggling with something, it's actually your
• 44:53
  ability is activated through struggle.
• 44:56
  So whatever skill you're trying to learn, just you're not there
• 45:00
  yet, but you'll get there. And so older brains are going to
• 45:03
  have a harder time picking up new skills, but it can be done.
• 45:06
  But it's this idea that I can learn anything.
• 45:09
  I can accomplish and do anything I put my mind to.
• 45:12
  And that's the true essence of what growth mindset is it like
• 45:15
  the 300 level? I think the 100 level is this
• 45:18
  idea of reframing the 200 level is just process based focus.
• 45:21
  And then the 300 level is, yeah, I could a year from now, I could
• 45:25
  play the guitar. I could play you a Pearl Jam
• 45:27
  song. Not a Pearl Jam fan but Stacy is
• 45:30
  weirdly but in. The next.
• 45:33
  I mean, you know, back in the day, man, you know, I had to
• 45:36
  flannel a little bit long hair. But yeah, so I really like to
• 45:41
  break it down that way when we're talking growth mindset,
• 45:44
  those 3 levels. On the reframing part, let me
• 45:49
  just I just want to unpack that a little, a little bit.
• 45:51
  So if I understood correctly, it's before reframing.
• 45:57
  I'm just looking at a loss and reframing is actually taking a
• 46:01
  look at what happened and defining a way that that was not
• 46:06
  a loss, that it was a win. Like what did I gain there?
• 46:09
  Right? And like, as an example, I have
• 46:11
  we hired a sales guy about a month and a half ago.
• 46:15
  And you know, one of the first things I put them on was cold
• 46:17
  calls. And I don't know if you guys
• 46:20
  have ever made cold calls, but cold calls are a noodle, right?
• 46:23
  Like I always tell people I'm like, it's, it's getting your
• 46:26
  teeth kicked down your throat on the phone for 2-3 hours a day,
• 46:30
  right? It's not a fun exercise.
• 46:32
  And the thing about cold calling is, is that you don't really set
• 46:35
  appointments from cold calling. Like you'll make 100 phone calls
• 46:38
  and you might get 2 appointments.
• 46:39
  It's, it's brutal. So he, he had a pretty rough day
• 46:41
  yesterday on the phone, right? And he calls me up and we as a
• 46:46
  part of my program with salespeople is I have him do a
• 46:51
  rating twice a day. So he starts his day one to
• 46:54
  1010. It's the best day of your life.
• 46:55
  One, it's the worst day of your life at the end of the day.
• 46:58
  What's that rating? Right?
• 46:59
  And that helps me kind of keep an eye on like his mental space
• 47:03
  because his attitude, right? That's an important thing as a
• 47:05
  salesperson is where you're where you're what's going on
• 47:08
  between your ears, right? As we talked about it.
• 47:10
  And so his rating was low. And we get on the get on a
• 47:13
  coaching call and he's like, yeah, he's like, I don't know,
• 47:15
  man, those cold calls are just taking a bunch out of me.
• 47:18
  You know, like I just, he's like, I the person that had me
• 47:21
  call them back blew me off. You know, I got a bunch of nose.
• 47:25
  I got this, I got that. And I was like, well, listen,
• 47:27
  man, like I think you need to stop.
• 47:29
  And I'm saying this because I think we reframed, but I didn't
• 47:32
  know that's what we were doing. Is I need to stop looking at the
• 47:37
  result of those phone calls as that winning in the situation.
• 47:42
  As you set appointments from those phone calls, I'm like,
• 47:44
  what you actually gained on those phone calls was you gained
• 47:48
  what I call conceptual strength. So your ability to be rejected
• 47:51
  and to get no result, but still carry on and pick up the phone
• 47:54
  tomorrow. You gained the ability to on the
• 47:58
  conversations you did have. You're you, it's reps you got
• 48:01
  practice on how to have those conversations.
• 48:03
  So the next time you're in an actual sales meeting where there
• 48:06
  is a win on the line or you're at a networking event and
• 48:10
  someone is having, they're saying similar things like
• 48:12
  you've already been through this.
• 48:13
  You have muscle memory now like you've now gained that.
• 48:16
  So I say all that just to kind of put it in context, Like does
• 48:19
  that sound like what reframing would be?
• 48:21
  Yeah, for sure. I mean, you're reminding me of,
• 48:24
  you know, cold calls with the back in the Sweethearts and
• 48:26
  Heroes days. I would call assistant
• 48:28
  principals and principals and superintendents, assistant
• 48:31
  superintendents. And I'd have to leave emails,
• 48:33
  but I would call the e-mail and early voicemails and then I
• 48:36
  would call the e-mail. But you know, I put it to use
• 48:39
  right now, like where we're at right now.
• 48:42
  And I'll give you the example. But like, I would be at a
• 48:44
  conference with a Superintendent who wouldn't even be making eye
• 48:48
  contact with me dressed as a superhero, dressed as I was
• 48:52
  Robin, which I chose Robin because it's kind of a wimpy
• 48:55
  vulnerable. Like I could have been Batman,
• 48:57
  but I'm dressed as Robin. The worst outfit ever from
• 49:00
  Batman. And Stacey was Wonder Woman.
• 49:02
  And we're talking to superintendents at the New York
• 49:04
  State Superintendent Conference. And then, you know, we got all
• 49:06
  kinds of experiences and stuff, but like, I got to pitch this
• 49:09
  person in 30 seconds and I got to make him pay attention to me
• 49:13
  and then see if they're interested, right?
• 49:15
  And so we would do crazy stuff like that and elevator
• 49:18
  conversations, literally, like in an elevator.
• 49:20
  But we were just at a conference in Saint Louis, and I talked to
• 49:25
  four people and all four people followed up with us.
• 49:28
  I'm a ninja when it comes to that.
• 49:30
  And we were at a conference last year in San Antonio and Texas.
• 49:35
  I've been to both of those places this past year to do a
• 49:37
  training in the mining space. But like I've gotten like razor
• 49:42
  sharp at like getting your attention, giving you some doses
• 49:47
  of value and then following up with you and usually reeling it
• 49:51
  in. Now, you know, those are
• 49:53
  anecdotal examples. I'm not going to guarantee that
• 49:56
  I'm always in that space, but I am fairly good at being a
• 49:59
  salesman because I spent 15 years trying to reel in some of
• 50:03
  the biggest, slipperiest fish. So difficult to try to peddle a
• 50:07
  message or an idea in the K to 12 public education setting.
• 50:11
  There's limited resources, limited time.
• 50:13
  Some people hate assemblies. Some people don't want to talk
• 50:16
  about the B word because bullying like don't address that
• 50:19
  because that's stigma. So it was a lot of uphill fights
• 50:24
  and we were massively successful.
• 50:26
  I mean, I when I left, we were in the 2 millions of students
• 50:30
  that we had been our message had been in front of.
• 50:32
  And that's amazing. They're still going and.
• 50:34
  They're still going. Yeah.
• 50:35
  Who's who's heading it up now? So the gentleman that owns it
• 50:39
  now, he and I started together, he competed in the UFC, we were
• 50:44
  college team mates. His name was Tom Murphy.
• 50:46
  And then the other gentleman that we hired on board, great
• 50:50
  back story on him, Rick Yarra, she's a Wounded Warrior.
• 50:54
  And they were the stage men and I was the behind the scenes.
• 50:59
  And like I said, during COVID, we had kind of a pause and there
• 51:04
  was a lot going on with schools in COVID and I just chose to
• 51:07
  pivot a different direction. I sorry, I kind of took us off
• 51:14
  on attention again, which is what I do.
• 51:16
  Sorry guys, Derek's probably laughing if he's listening to
• 51:20
  this. We unpack the reframing, the
• 51:26
  second step again, or the second piece.
• 51:28
  The second one is the idea of a process based focus and and you
• 51:31
  know everything in K to 12 education, everything in youth
• 51:33
  sports is all about the outcome about the product.
• 51:36
  So as a, as a parent and certainly as a business owner
• 51:40
  and certainly as a peak performer, we have to get
• 51:43
  process focused. And, but we're taught that if
• 51:46
  you get 100, you're smart and if you get a seven, you're dumb.
• 51:48
  I mean, I have kids that have meltdowns if they'll come into
• 51:51
  my phys Ed class depressed and upset because they just got an
• 51:53
  ADMA test. It's like an insult to their
• 51:56
  intelligence and they can't process the fact that, look,
• 52:00
  that's just a measurement. That's all it is.
• 52:02
  It's a measurement of the knowledge that you have in that
• 52:05
  one tiny space. Life is so much bigger, but they
• 52:09
  get all caught up in the grade. And that's a really, you know,
• 52:12
  sad situation. It kind of connects to like the
• 52:13
  curse of the valedictorian. You have this identity.
• 52:17
  And, and here's really what the crux of the issue is around
• 52:20
  somebody with a fixed mindset. My identity is my outcomes.
• 52:23
  So when I work with my athletes, I will say millions of times
• 52:27
  throughout the season to all my teams, your outcomes are not
• 52:30
  your identity. Your identity is your effort.
• 52:33
  It's your attitude. It's the things that you can
• 52:34
  control on your control circle, right?
• 52:36
  It's your mood, energy, attitude, words, thoughts,
• 52:38
  feelings, actions. So if you connect your identity
• 52:41
  to your outcomes, you're setting yourself up for massive
• 52:45
  disappointments. And you know what happens is you
• 52:48
  cut corners. So kids with fixed mindsets will
• 52:51
  cheat, they'll steal their lie, they'll manipulate, they'll
• 52:53
  create narratives that support they're poor performance.
• 52:57
  Though it's. Interesting.
• 52:58
  Oh, it's, it's beyond. It is interesting and it's sad.
• 53:02
  How do you how do you change that?
• 53:03
  Like if you have a kid that has a fixed mindset, like how do you
• 53:05
  get them to adopt? And it's.
• 53:07
  Hard to change man and this is what breaks my heart.
• 53:09
  And I have a youth sports book that's 8590% written. 85 is a
• 53:14
  weird number, but like it's pretty much done, but I got to
• 53:17
  redo some parts of it, but it's like I got really, I don't know
• 53:23
  the word discouraged at the youth sports culture and the
• 53:28
  specialization culture 20 years ago and started writing this and
• 53:33
  I I interviewed Jimmer Fredette's parents.
• 53:36
  I interviewed I interviewed his father and I interviewed Dale
• 53:40
  Harris, Brendan Harris's 4 local pros in basketball, football,
• 53:47
  hockey and baseball and kind of wanted to create the path of a
• 53:53
  pro because a lot of people think that they're creating it
• 53:57
  with specialization and youth sports experiences.
• 54:00
  And it couldn't be further from the truth.
• 54:02
  It's a, if you've read the book Outliers or read the book Talent
• 54:05
  Code, it's this collision of opportunity and the right
• 54:10
  personality. Like some of those four guys
• 54:13
  were going to be pros irregardless.
• 54:15
  Like if their parents wanted to try to screw it up, I don't
• 54:18
  think they could have, you know, but we tend to think that we can
• 54:21
  kind of manipulate and manage a kid's success or opportunity.
• 54:26
  And so many people and you know, our kids are kind of anecdotal
• 54:30
  stories and case studies, but like we put this to practice
• 54:34
  with our kids pretty intensely in our house.
• 54:36
  I mean, my kid would come home with a spelling.
• 54:38
  Stacey always did the spelling review with them.
• 54:41
  I didn't do much of the school work.
• 54:42
  Stuff diligence comes from the. Mother, it does, but I was out
• 54:47
  in the yard doing some sick games I could tell you.
• 54:50
  Yeah, we would yeah. Anyway, all of our games you had
• 54:55
  to hit each other with something but anyway, the.
• 54:57
  But that's a lot of tracking and like timing.
• 54:59
  And so there's a lot of value in that.
• 55:01
  But the where was I going with that?
• 55:04
  I think I just completely lost my oh so, but my older son has a
• 55:07
  full ride scholarship, full room and board.
• 55:10
  We didn't do anything to create that.
• 55:13
  He created himself. And he, he had a better chance
• 55:17
  of earning that the way that we parented him than if we had put
• 55:21
  him in like the best camps and clinics and around the best
• 55:25
  coaches because he earned it through academics.
• 55:28
  He he was the valedictorian of his class, but he like didn't
• 55:32
  care and his class was very tiny, but he ended up going to
• 55:37
  ACC got a four O. He was honored by a teacher and
• 55:43
  nominated for a regional award where if you are a regional
• 55:48
  award winner and you go to ACC, you go there for free your first
• 55:52
  year. He's the only kid that was going
• 55:54
  there because everybody else want to go to Clarkson or RPI or
• 55:58
  RIT or some big school because they were there valedictorian or
• 56:02
  top five student. He's he's like, should I?
• 56:05
  No, you're going to ACC, bro. You're just going to save some
• 56:07
  money. So he went there and so he wrote
• 56:10
  an essay. He got the tuition and then
• 56:12
  while he was there, I said go anywhere in the country you want
• 56:16
  like find us. And he loved Utah.
• 56:18
  So he calls Utah Tech, which used to be Dixie states of
• 56:22
  nowhere college and nowhere Utah happens to be Saint George,
• 56:26
  which is like, you know, the mountain biking and hiking
• 56:28
  playground of the world. And they the guy on the phone
• 56:32
  says you want to be a teacher. He said, yeah, I'm a math
• 56:34
  teacher. I tried to tell him not to, but
• 56:35
  he does. And he said you can come here
• 56:38
  for free. You got a three, eight or
• 56:40
  higher. He goes, I got a four O he goes
• 56:41
  free and that's what he's doing. He's in student government free
• 56:45
  room and board. But it's like we could have
• 56:47
  taken him to every soccer opportunity you can take him to.
• 56:51
  I could have trained him, you know, in my basement we have a
• 56:54
  gym and I could have made him a soccer machine and he would have
• 56:58
  gone, you know, and got student loan debt and like he tore his
• 57:01
  ACL his junior year anyway. But like, I feel like people put
• 57:05
  so much emphasis on the on the sport path and the
• 57:09
  specialization path. I think that there's a better
• 57:13
  process, a better way through some conscious parenting and
• 57:18
  facilitating, which is what all four of those pros parents did.
• 57:21
  It was a nurture and facilitation experience rather
• 57:25
  than a drive and motivation experience.
• 57:27
  Interesting. Yeah.
• 57:28
  So they weren't putting pressure on their kids to be the best in
• 57:32
  in a sport. And and it was more about go the
• 57:35
  path that you want to go. I'm going to facilitate it.
• 57:38
  I'm going to encourage it, whatever it is.
• 57:40
  And. More of a pom pom cheerleading
• 57:43
  role. Do you think that that approach
• 57:46
  is something that should be adapted by employers?
• 57:50
  Yeah, I think it's it's the same concept in in regards to this
• 57:54
  idea of a growth mindset and supporting and, you know,
• 57:58
  nurturing and being patient to a degree.
• 58:01
  To a degree. I mean, we talk a lot about
• 58:03
  psychological safety and, you know, you got to have high
• 58:06
  standards, but you also have to have a high psychological safety
• 58:12
  standard, which just means it's trust, it's connection, it's
• 58:16
  humanity. And if you have both of those
• 58:18
  things, then you're going to be in this like growth zone, this
• 58:21
  learning phase. But if you have just high
• 58:23
  standards, no trust or safety, you're in an anxiety state.
• 58:27
  And a lot of businesses are running an anxiety state.
• 58:30
  Yeah. So yeah, I do think that you
• 58:33
  have to have these, you know, this trust and this connection
• 58:35
  and vulnerability experience through this growth mindset
• 58:39
  approach to bring people into a learning and growth zone.
• 58:43
  It, it's interesting because I know, I know we're getting close
• 58:46
  on time, but I had years ago, I had tried to force my employees
• 58:53
  down through a path in my company and utilizing pay scales
• 59:00
  and raises and things like that as like the carrot for them to
• 59:03
  take that path. And none of them wanted to take
• 59:05
  that path. Like they, I would be like, so
• 59:07
  this is what I want you to do. This is where I'd like you to go
• 59:09
  next. And then they're like, yeah, I
• 59:11
  don't know, but I really want to do that.
• 59:12
  And then again, without knowing this, I was just like, all
• 59:16
  right, well, then I, I opened it, I gave it some fluidity
• 59:20
  where I was like, all right, there isn't just this one path,
• 59:23
  like there's different paths. Which path would you like to
• 59:25
  take next? Doesn't mean that you're stuck
• 59:28
  there, but this is, this would be the next.
• 59:30
  You've got these options for your next step.
• 59:31
  Where would you like to go? And kind of giving them the
• 59:34
  ability to choose similar to what you're talking about with
• 59:36
  those athletes, right? Not necessarily forcing them
• 59:39
  into that sports path, but giving them the encouragement
• 59:42
  and facilitating whatever it was going to be.
• 59:44
  And then and I started doing that with our team and it worked
• 59:47
  out really well. Like we had people that
• 59:49
  originally didn't want to take the path that I wanted them to
• 59:52
  take. They ended up taking it on their
• 59:53
  own, but now just because it was their choice rather than the
• 59:56
  only option I was giving them. It's so funny.
• 59:58
  That's how I run my weight room. Yeah.
• 1:00:00
  And if you come to observe my classes, which you're certainly
• 1:00:04
  welcome to, it's, it's your net. You just hit the nail on the
• 1:00:08
  head. So like.
• 1:00:10
  I went down and observed a school district that is getting
• 1:00:13
  bragged about intensely. And this the talk of the
• 1:00:16
  section, Section 2 is our section in New York State.
• 1:00:19
  And so, I mean, it goes down past Ravina and all the way up
• 1:00:23
  north into like Johnsburg, Reagan, from Amsterdam all the
• 1:00:28
  way over to, you know, where we are in Fort Anne.
• 1:00:31
  So it's just a giant lot of schools.
• 1:00:33
  But this one, I wanted to go see what they're doing because
• 1:00:35
  everybody's talking about this class.
• 1:00:36
  It's like my class peak performance.
• 1:00:39
  It was like militant and it was super intense and the kids came
• 1:00:44
  in and there was a lot of barking and orders, high stress,
• 1:00:47
  high anxiety, high standards, right?
• 1:00:49
  And I just don't think that that.
• 1:00:52
  And you couldn't find anyone not working.
• 1:00:54
  Now, if you come to my class, it's more autonomous, it's more
• 1:00:58
  open-ended. It's more like I got people
• 1:01:00
  choosing their exercises. I got people deciding whether
• 1:01:03
  they're going to work at a level 10 or a level 6, right.
• 1:01:07
  And so it's more appropriate. But what what happens?
• 1:01:10
  And I'll have kids that look, so one of my colleagues, he's like
• 1:01:13
  that kids lazy. I don't even know why he's in
• 1:01:15
  this class. I'm like, well, have you made
• 1:01:16
  friends with him yet? And so you make friends with him
• 1:01:19
  and he and he brilliantly and beautifully kind of got on board
• 1:01:22
  with this. So when we have kids come in, we
• 1:01:24
  make connections. And then that kid who was lazy
• 1:01:27
  and stuck in his phone. And this year, there's no
• 1:01:29
  phones, by the way, New York State just.
• 1:01:30
  I know I saw that but. This kid is now training other
• 1:01:33
  kids and he was lazy in September, but by the time
• 1:01:38
  December or January rose on, he's training other kids.
• 1:01:40
  And so to learn is to teach, right?
• 1:01:43
  Or to learn is to teach. I forget how it goes, but the
• 1:01:46
  idea of like patience and like autonomy and like conversations
• 1:01:52
  and I'll have kids come in and say, coach, sorry, I'm not my
• 1:01:54
  best today. I'm just not feeling it.
• 1:01:56
  I wouldn't even have noticed, but they noticed.
• 1:01:59
  And so I feel like that's a better experience for the
• 1:02:03
  marathon of someone. And I you got to have high
• 1:02:06
  standards and listen, I can kick some serious ass like I'll,
• 1:02:10
  I'll, you know, I can get intense, but I can also, I
• 1:02:13
  wouldn't have guessed that. I can also be super patient and
• 1:02:17
  super accommodating and super gentle, especially, you know, I
• 1:02:21
  just put out on my Facebook, you know, kids don't learn from
• 1:02:23
  teachers they don't like. They're not going to be
• 1:02:26
  motivated by teachers they don't like, right?
• 1:02:27
  So they have to like me. That's an important part of it.
• 1:02:30
  And I, it wasn't the case when I was in school.
• 1:02:33
  You know, if you hated your teacher, you still worked really
• 1:02:36
  hard for him, but now it's not the case.
• 1:02:39
  And so I think there's an evolution to it.
• 1:02:41
  I like to say there's an artistic, you know, approach to
• 1:02:43
  it. You can be a scientist, but you
• 1:02:46
  also have to be an artist and timing strategy, you know,
• 1:02:50
  considerations. You really have to be conscious
• 1:02:52
  of all that stuff. So once I I know we got to wrap
• 1:02:58
  up, but I just wanted to bring it back to reframing process.
• 1:03:06
  What's the third one again? The malleability or the brain
• 1:03:09
  plasticity to be able to learn any skill at any any age.
• 1:03:12
  And that's more about just the awareness that you have that
• 1:03:15
  ability and that people have it. And I think in in getting deeper
• 1:03:18
  into the science and what we share is neuroplasticity.
• 1:03:22
  As you age, you have to be more intentional at seeking
• 1:03:25
  opportunities to to do certain things that are going to push
• 1:03:29
  you and make you grow. Whereas when you're younger, the
• 1:03:32
  brain is more of a sponge and you record things sort of
• 1:03:36
  without an awareness or being intentional of seeking those
• 1:03:39
  opportunities doesn't work quite the same way as we age.
• 1:03:42
  So we need to be intentional about it.
• 1:03:44
  And that's a piece of, you know, self mastery.
• 1:03:46
  So when we look at how do we make ourselves better leaders,
• 1:03:49
  it's working on yourself, yourself.
• 1:03:51
  So leadership is self mastery and you have to be intentional
• 1:03:55
  in putting yourself in opportunities to grow and and
• 1:03:58
  have that bit of friction in the brain to fire and wire new
• 1:04:01
  circuits. And that's what set you apart.
• 1:04:04
  Fire and wire. I was like that saying fire and
• 1:04:08
  wire. You know, and we'll do an
• 1:04:09
  exercise that sort of brings all those three elements of growth
• 1:04:11
  mindset together. So when we work with a company,
• 1:04:13
  we have a sheet and if you ever heard, you know, there's a, a, a
• 1:04:17
  YouTube clip of good, the Jocko good when something bad happens.
• 1:04:21
  Yeah, well, good. So we use that as a growth
• 1:04:25
  mindset reframe. So the good cue is kind of like
• 1:04:27
  a disruptor. It's a reset mechanism for your
• 1:04:31
  brain. So when you're in that sort of
• 1:04:32
  self pity ruminating cycle of, oh, I got to make another call,
• 1:04:36
  I'm going to get the same rejection and good, is that
• 1:04:40
  reframe? So it sort of flips the switch
• 1:04:41
  to get you out of that ruminating cycle.
• 1:04:44
  And then we reframe a fixed mindset statement.
• 1:04:46
  So I'm going to make 10 more calls or you're going to hang
• 1:04:48
  out with me. Good.
• 1:04:49
  I'm going to have an opportunity to get really creative with my
• 1:04:53
  communications tonight and we'll go through different scenarios
• 1:04:56
  and work and getting that thought pattern down.
• 1:04:59
  And we always point out that that idea and, and Jocko is
• 1:05:02
  creating a team and certainly that's where people fall in love
• 1:05:04
  with this Navy SEAL stuff and military stuff, which is great.
• 1:05:07
  But we're not Navy Seals. And you know, it's not life and
• 1:05:10
  death. It's important.
• 1:05:11
  And we got to have high standards and we can learn from
• 1:05:13
  the Navy Seals. But the idea of good, that could
• 1:05:17
  be like positive toxicity. And and if you're saying that to
• 1:05:21
  people on your team like this salesperson who's struggling,
• 1:05:25
  you're not saying that to because if you did, he'd
• 1:05:27
  probably like get off the phone way and be like, what a jerk.
• 1:05:29
  I know, but it's really a self talk.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah. Reframe.
• 1:05:32
  So like the back of Stacey's shirt says earlier today it said
• 1:05:36
  nobody cares, work harder. We went to a mixer this morning
• 1:05:40
  and a Wellness mixer and she got a compliment, but it says nobody
• 1:05:43
  cares, work harder. But that's your inner self talk.
• 1:05:46
  Remember what I said? It's the negative self talk and
• 1:05:48
  self doubt. So we're not talking to ourself
• 1:05:51
  better with that intensity. So like the brand stuff like
• 1:05:54
  when you live lose, you die. You can say that internally, but
• 1:05:58
  I don't think you can, you know, projected out onto the world,
• 1:06:01
  right? But I mean, I don't think that's
• 1:06:03
  a good one to say internally because it's not process focus
• 1:06:05
  either. But some of the intense things
• 1:06:07
  that are out there in the world, we have to be careful not to
• 1:06:09
  project that on the people. I would never tell you nobody
• 1:06:12
  cares. Work harder.
• 1:06:13
  I tell myself that, right? And so that's a really important
• 1:06:17
  kind of a decipher between like how to reframe things.
• 1:06:20
  Yeah, I, I love the Jocko Good thing.
• 1:06:22
  I, I think I first heard it like maybe last year.
• 1:06:27
  And and if you guys haven't heard it, and I'm sure there's a
• 1:06:29
  YouTube video of Jocko Willink telling the story behind why he
• 1:06:32
  says good when bad things happen.
• 1:06:35
  But I'll tell you, it actually helped me a lot last year in
• 1:06:37
  both my company because we were just, you know, we talked
• 1:06:40
  earlier about that momentum going the wrong direction,
• 1:06:42
  right? And you feel it and your team
• 1:06:44
  feels it. And we were man, we were feeling
• 1:06:46
  it. We were losing team members.
• 1:06:49
  We were losing clients. I mean, it was just going in the
• 1:06:52
  wrong direction and I heard that video.
• 1:06:55
  And so every time a new thing would happen, I'd be like, good,
• 1:06:59
  but I would follow it up with that means there's an
• 1:07:01
  opportunity for me here and I need to figure out what that
• 1:07:04
  opportunity is right. And then and it did, it actually
• 1:07:06
  helped me restructure my whole company.
• 1:07:10
  Just having that mindset, right, of being of not crumbling and
• 1:07:14
  going to hide in the bathroom, you know, like I was like, no
• 1:07:17
  good. This means that there's some
• 1:07:19
  work that I need to do. That means that there's an
• 1:07:20
  obstacle that I need to overcome.
• 1:07:22
  And on the other side of that obstacle is where I want to be.
• 1:07:26
  Yeah, there's so much more that you can get into on that.
• 1:07:28
  I mean, it's a, it's literally a circuit, you know, the firing
• 1:07:30
  wiring, it's literally a circuit in the brain.
• 1:07:32
  And this is the whole idea about malleability and plasticity for
• 1:07:35
  some of these salty veterans who can't deal with a millennial or
• 1:07:39
  a Gen. Z or which is 72% of the
• 1:07:41
  workforce right now or AZ and millennials.
• 1:07:43
  But like you're, you're frustrated with these people.
• 1:07:45
  And like, you can learn to be compassionate.
• 1:07:47
  You can learn to be patient, you can learn to be more artistic in
• 1:07:51
  your leadership style. It's like our brains are
• 1:07:53
  plastic. They can like learn fire a skill
• 1:07:56
  and you know, wire a skill for being compassionate.
• 1:07:59
  Like a person gets out of their car, they're 5 minutes late
• 1:08:01
  again today. Hey, is everything OK?
• 1:08:03
  That's that's a circuit that fires for compassion, you know,
• 1:08:07
  because it's not OK to show up late consistently.
• 1:08:09
  And I just want to make sure you're all right.
• 1:08:10
  Is there something I can do to help you get here sooner?
• 1:08:13
  Well, I got to drop my kid off at daycare or whatever.
• 1:08:15
  All right, well, let's make up for it.
• 1:08:17
  You know what? Don't take break when everyone
• 1:08:18
  else does, like come up with a compromise, Right?
• 1:08:21
  And so like, it's a better way to say, oh, late again, you saw
• 1:08:24
  a gun. Like whatever you finally hear
• 1:08:26
  like those kinds of comments, that guy usually stops showing
• 1:08:29
  up and because of you, right? And you ran them off and then
• 1:08:32
  you're going to complain that you don't have anybody.
• 1:08:34
  So I think that like the idea of wiring and firing.
• 1:08:37
  It's like I my response to these people and these experiences can
• 1:08:43
  be wired differently. It's not hold the effing
• 1:08:45
  flashlight and but unfortunately that's kind of how we're.
• 1:08:49
  I mean, it's how I grew up. Teach.
• 1:08:51
  Teach the way we were taught. My poor kids, I'm sure they got
• 1:08:54
  a lot of that too. And I, I'm sure, you know, if
• 1:08:58
  you're listening and you know, as a business owner, there's
• 1:09:00
  just it, it may sound like a lot, right?
• 1:09:03
  Like this is a lot of stuff to worry about and all these new
• 1:09:05
  concepts. But fortunately, that's why you
• 1:09:09
  guys do what you do, right? That's why Catamount is
• 1:09:11
  Catamount and appreciate what you guys do and and how you work
• 1:09:15
  with businesses and help them through all these interesting
• 1:09:18
  challenges that we face. If you want to know where to
• 1:09:23
  find you guys, they're interested in what you're
• 1:09:25
  talking about, maybe bringing you in to talk to their team,
• 1:09:28
  whether that's leadership or their operations team, how do
• 1:09:31
  they get a hold of you guys? Yeah, the probably the easiest
• 1:09:33
  would just be go to our website, soitscatmallconsultingllc.com
• 1:09:38
  and they'll be a lot of contact information on that.
• 1:09:42
  There's my cell phones on there, the office phone, there's all of
• 1:09:45
  our emails. You can learn about our team in
• 1:09:48
  our profiles and, and sort of what specialties we we
• 1:09:53
  specialize in. And you know, there's, there's
• 1:09:58
  always an opportunity someone will call you back.
• 1:10:01
  You can reach me personally through my cell phone.
• 1:10:04
  But yeah, you can learn more about us for sure.
• 1:10:07
  And and we've even brought on some new interesting individuals
• 1:10:11
  for the keynote space. We've got a ex Major League
• 1:10:14
  Baseball player who's bringing some value in the mindset and
• 1:10:17
  leadership space at. The World Series team, yeah, for
• 1:10:20
  the Red Sox, Nice. Yeah.
• 1:10:22
  Catcher, I think he's lived in like over 30 cities, kept
• 1:10:25
  getting moved from team to team, the resiliencies.
• 1:10:29
  He's got a great story about being resilient and yeah and
• 1:10:32
  keep. Going when you keep getting
• 1:10:33
  moved and. He made it to the World Series.
• 1:10:34
  Yeah. It's amazing, Yeah.
• 1:10:37
  OK, Thanks for coming on. Thanks for coming out to the
• 1:10:38
  farm. Always appreciate when people
• 1:10:40
  come out. It's always beautiful.
• 1:10:41
  It's fun. Thank you.
• 1:10:42
  We're trying, you know, work in progress.
• 1:10:44
  I'll. Bring my swimsuit.
• 1:10:46
  Next, Yeah, I know I should have told you.
• 1:10:49
  Thanks everybody for listening. Of course, you know, you can
• 1:10:51
  find us on Spotify, Rumble, YouTube and Apple Podcasts.
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• 1:10:58
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• 1:11:01
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