Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 61. Let's Get Divorced

Transcript

61. Let's Get Divorced · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 1: You're listening to an airwave media podcast. Hi everybody, and
0:17
Speaker 1: welcome to Hooded What Now the history podcast That's not
0:20
Speaker 1: your history class? With me your host, Kay Charlwood, history
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Speaker 1: harlote and reader of books. I am back after a
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Speaker 1: week off because I had pneumonia, which is not fun
0:33
Speaker 1: and zero out of ten would not recommend. Just don't
0:37
Speaker 1: get it. I feel like if the opportunity arises, politely decline. Now.
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Speaker 1: I've got a few things to talk about this episode,
0:46
Speaker 1: actually a few important things I've got housekeeping. So first
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Speaker 1: things first, this week's episode is dedicated to Sabrina, my
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Speaker 1: newest Patreon. Hi, welcome to the guild of his sto
1:00
Speaker 1: call Descent. And now for regular listeners who have been
1:04
Speaker 1: here for a while now, the Sabrina isn't a regular listener,
1:07
Speaker 1: she probably is. Hey, but I have a really fun
1:12
Speaker 1: giveaway that I'm going to talk about at the end
1:13
Speaker 1: of the show. And there's a few things I'm going
1:16
Speaker 1: to talk about there that are big news, big news happening.
1:20
Speaker 1: But before I get into that, we have to go
1:23
Speaker 1: do the boring stuff. I know. First of all, disclaimer,
1:26
Speaker 1: if you're new, there is a possibility I'm gonna use
1:30
Speaker 1: language that you might not find acceptable, and if that's
1:34
Speaker 1: the case, tough fucking luck. Language. Okay, So I have
1:41
Speaker 1: a supervisor today, my Bobba, who is keeping an eye
1:46
Speaker 1: on me because I haven't been well, and he does
1:50
Speaker 1: not like my use of language. He's very good, unlike Baby,
1:56
Speaker 1: who you have heard in previous episodes, who can swear
1:59
Speaker 1: in on text, which I think is definitely my fault,
2:03
Speaker 1: although I will be blaming her father for a little
2:05
Speaker 1: bit of that. Anyhow, Now, before I get into anything else,
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Speaker 1: first of all, thank you for your reviews. They're still
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Speaker 1: It's great. I love it a word, but it's brilliant. However,
2:25
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you can write whatever you like,
2:27
Speaker 1: but I do love getting compliments, so feel free to
2:30
Speaker 1: do that. Continue to do that. It brightens my day,
2:33
Speaker 1: especially when I've been so sick. And anyone who has
2:37
Speaker 1: ever left a review, will it's survey time. Even if
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3:04
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3:08
Speaker 1: can finally get host red ads and actually start making
3:12
Speaker 1: some more money because because I am, I am not
3:15
Speaker 1: doing well. It's it's tough trying to get this up,
3:20
Speaker 1: and I want to get merch coming soon, and I'm
3:22
Speaker 1: just like hitting every single hardle on the way. I
3:26
Speaker 1: was supposed to have merchhop but the company I'm trying
3:30
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3:33
Speaker 1: from power to post. But yeah, if you can just
3:35
Speaker 1: do the listener survey link in the description down below,
3:38
Speaker 1: it would mean the world to me. It just helps,
3:42
Speaker 1: and it would be good to let Airwa Media know
3:44
Speaker 1: that I have such great supporters. Now where was I? Yes,
3:48
Speaker 1: there's going to be information on a giveaway at the
3:51
Speaker 1: end of this episode, so listen up because you guys
3:55
Speaker 1: are going to be the first to hear about it
3:57
Speaker 1: before the rest of the socials, so you're going to
3:59
Speaker 1: be prepared, I say the rest of the socials as
4:03
Speaker 1: if this is some sort of social media situation when
4:05
Speaker 1: it's not it's the podcast. So about the podcast, I
4:10
Speaker 1: do actually need your help. If you're listening on day
4:13
Speaker 1: of release, especially but definitely within the first week. Do
4:17
Speaker 1: try and listen in the first week if you can.
4:19
Speaker 1: If you're listening to this way in the future, doesn't matter,
4:23
Speaker 1: it's okay. But still this kind of applies to you.
4:26
Speaker 1: If you download an episode and then play it, it
4:31
Speaker 1: actually boosts it in the chart somehow. I don't know
4:34
Speaker 1: how it works, whether it's on Spotify or on Apple
4:38
Speaker 1: podcast Google Podcasts, but especially between Apple and Spotify, if
4:44
Speaker 1: you download it it is somehow better. I don't know why.
4:49
Speaker 1: It just is like that does that. But also sharing it,
4:54
Speaker 1: like if you like share it to like Twitter or Instagram,
4:58
Speaker 1: or like you dm it to friend all that kind
5:01
Speaker 1: of stuff. It all adds up and it boosts the charts.
5:06
Speaker 1: And I want to be able to make better quality episodes.
5:12
Speaker 1: I want to start having like I'd love to be
5:15
Speaker 1: able to afford an editor and to be able to
5:18
Speaker 1: make this into start doing a few visual things because
5:23
Speaker 1: it's really difficult to be inclusive when I am effectively
5:27
Speaker 1: cutting out a huge chunk of people. So people who
5:31
Speaker 1: are hard of hearing, or death or even neurodivergent people
5:36
Speaker 1: who have auditory issues. I could be just cutting them
5:40
Speaker 1: out of this option of being able to share this information,
5:46
Speaker 1: and that's that's just not cool, man, you know what
5:49
Speaker 1: I mean? It just feels icky, Like I don't have
5:54
Speaker 1: a better way to describe it, because I feel kind
5:57
Speaker 1: of crappy about it, and I want to do better,
6:00
Speaker 1: but I'm not at a point where I can't. Like
6:03
Speaker 1: I want to be able to start doing like videos
6:05
Speaker 1: for YouTube, long form episodes of the podcast on there,
6:09
Speaker 1: whether it's making it in video form and also audio
6:12
Speaker 1: form or I don't know, some funky captioning situation, but
6:18
Speaker 1: I barely have time as it is, between working a
6:22
Speaker 1: full time job and having two fresh humans. Well they're
6:27
Speaker 1: not that fresh. Crap is not a swear word. It is.
6:32
Speaker 1: It's not it is. What is a word? I'm just
6:41
Speaker 1: saying it's not. I mean, you shouldn't say it, but
6:44
Speaker 1: like it's not like on the scale of like, mom,
6:50
Speaker 1: why are you American? All of a sudden, Mommy, Mommy,
6:58
Speaker 1: you said the bad word what squeaky? Okay, but not
7:06
Speaker 1: not when you hear it in your ears. Yeah, it
7:10
Speaker 1: sounds like this like big and strong, and this is
7:17
Speaker 1: very squeaky. Don't worry, your voice will drop eventually. It's
7:20
Speaker 1: it's you've only got another like four years to wait.
7:23
Speaker 1: You'll be fine. No, okay, sorry for that. Now, I
7:28
Speaker 1: know what you're thinking. You're thinking your jibber jabber in
7:31
Speaker 1: fact me, in fact you, I will. But first we've
7:35
Speaker 1: got to get our source on. Our sources are The
7:38
Speaker 1: hard on On Trail by Lower Banister, Trail by Impotence,
7:44
Speaker 1: Virility and Marriage in pre revolutionary France by Pierre Dumont,
7:49
Speaker 1: Medieval Combat and Color, a fifteenth century manual of sword
7:53
Speaker 1: fighting in close quarter combat by Hans Talhoffer. I have
7:58
Speaker 1: clearly just butchered a German humor Halters and Humiliation, Wife
8:04
Speaker 1: Sale as Theater, and self Divorce by Rachel Ann Vacon.
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Speaker 1: I sitting comfortably good, then let's begin. So this week's
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Speaker 1: episode is all about divorce. Yay. I had great plans
8:22
Speaker 1: for last week. I was hoping it would be like
8:24
Speaker 1: a really fun post Valentine's Day. Let's talk about the
8:29
Speaker 1: lack of love in the world. Although in fairness, most
8:33
Speaker 1: ye oldie marriages, a lot of them were not love matches.
8:37
Speaker 1: A lot of them were you know, well, depending on
8:40
Speaker 1: your social standing, it could be a political alliance, it
8:46
Speaker 1: could be well so that you would be saved from
8:49
Speaker 1: a nunnery, which we'll get into, or you know, just
8:53
Speaker 1: so that you didn't end up an old, sad, lonely person.
8:59
Speaker 1: Not that being alone makes you sad and lonely, but
9:03
Speaker 1: you know, it was very much a social stigma, especially
9:09
Speaker 1: way back when, like, you know, having that kind of autonomy,
9:14
Speaker 1: especially as like a woman or a female presenting person,
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Speaker 1: that it would just be very it would look bad
9:22
Speaker 1: on you. Although like a spinster is only up until
9:25
Speaker 1: a certain point of age and then I think after
9:28
Speaker 1: like twenty seven or something, I can't remember the exact date,
9:31
Speaker 1: but they become a thornback, which honestly is just like
9:34
Speaker 1: a cooler name. But yes, let's talk about divorce, separation
9:40
Speaker 1: and other such just solution of marriages, shall we say? So?
9:46
Speaker 1: Way back in the times of the Celts, well, I
9:51
Speaker 1: say that there was a Celtic custom right which comes
9:54
Speaker 1: under bren law, and it kind of ran up until
9:58
Speaker 1: the fifteen hundred, which is when like the plantations were
10:02
Speaker 1: happening and the colonization of Ireland was really starting to
10:05
Speaker 1: take place by the English, by the Tudors, you know,
10:09
Speaker 1: that whole royal line. I know, I mentioned it in
10:13
Speaker 1: the Queen Mary the first episode where we talked about
10:16
Speaker 1: Queen's County and King's County, which is awfully in leash
10:20
Speaker 1: and may have mixed those two up, but it's yeah,
10:23
Speaker 1: because she wanted to extend, you know, English control beyond
10:26
Speaker 1: the Pale, so you had that, and then by the
10:30
Speaker 1: time Elizabeth comes around, she really starts the plantations and
10:34
Speaker 1: she really starts taking over, and it's really only kind
10:38
Speaker 1: of in the edges, the western part of the country
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Speaker 1: where she doesn't really have that much control. Like again,
10:45
Speaker 1: touched on this in the gran New Wheel episode, which
10:47
Speaker 1: also I think references Britain law, which is you know
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Speaker 1: Celtic really Britain law, this Celtic custom from like the
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Speaker 1: seventh century. It laid out all of these reasons why
11:00
Speaker 1: people could get divorced, and honestly, women had such like
11:04
Speaker 1: a better like option back then. It's so weird, but yeah,
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Speaker 1: there are a bunch of reasons why, like someone could
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Speaker 1: get divorced, like a woman could divorce her husband if
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Speaker 1: he spread a false story about her or even spread
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Speaker 1: like satire, like if he mocked her, she could divorce him.
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Speaker 1: If he did not support her, So if he wasn't providing,
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Speaker 1: she could divorce him like boop done nah. If a
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Speaker 1: man was impotent, if he was in fairtile, or if
11:44
Speaker 1: he was romantically involved with other men, bim also divorce
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Speaker 1: if he you know, leaves her for another woman, if
11:56
Speaker 1: he cheats adultery like divorce. But fun fact, they didn't
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Speaker 1: have to get divorced. If he wanted to find like
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Speaker 1: a second wife, she could choose to stay there too
12:10
Speaker 1: if she wanted, but she could also choose divorce. If
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Speaker 1: he tried to induce an abortion, she could divorce him.
12:19
Speaker 1: And then there was this thing Granua Wheel did it
12:21
Speaker 1: and I love it. It was like the first year or
12:25
Speaker 1: so of like this marriage, you could just quit. It
12:30
Speaker 1: was like a trial marriage. You could be like, let's
12:33
Speaker 1: see how it goes. And in order to get divorced,
12:38
Speaker 1: you had to just like shout out the window like
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Speaker 1: I am done with you, bye bye, I divorced thee
12:44
Speaker 1: I free myself of you. Ah, there was proper wording
12:48
Speaker 1: for it. I just don't remember what that proper wording
12:50
Speaker 1: is because I'm very tired. But yeah, it was one
12:53
Speaker 1: of those things like such a great like just fantastic,
12:59
Speaker 1: Like women had more opportunities to just get rid of
13:03
Speaker 1: men or husbands that just weren't you know, up to
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Speaker 1: scratch for whatever reason. And what I've been really funny
13:12
Speaker 1: is like in Ireland, like once you know, Catholicism really
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Speaker 1: took its grip, like divorce wasn't an option till nineteen
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Speaker 1: ninety six, like, and we had to have a referendum
13:26
Speaker 1: on it, because that's how laws are changed in Ireland.
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Speaker 1: It's a it's by public vote because it's in the constitution,
13:34
Speaker 1: because you know, the people of Ireland should have a
13:38
Speaker 1: say in the laws of Ireland. And that's just how
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Speaker 1: it works. Say it is. A woman could also divorce
13:44
Speaker 1: her husband if he shared intimate details about what happened
13:49
Speaker 1: in the marriage bed. I'm being very careful with my
13:53
Speaker 1: words because there's a child here. Hello. Oh. I don't
14:00
Speaker 1: know if you know about the rule of thumb, but
14:02
Speaker 1: basically it comes from an old Irish rule that a
14:07
Speaker 1: man can beat his wife with a stick that's no
14:10
Speaker 1: wider than his thumb. You may have heard that, but
14:14
Speaker 1: you probably haven't heard the other side of it, which
14:17
Speaker 1: is the wife could then divorce him if you know,
14:23
Speaker 1: the strike, if the smack or the hit with the
14:25
Speaker 1: stick caused any marks, if it caused a blemish or
14:30
Speaker 1: a bruise or or any kind of thing like that
14:33
Speaker 1: a welt, she could divorce him, you know. But this
14:38
Speaker 1: is not all about women. Men had options too, Like
14:45
Speaker 1: a man could divorce his wife for like some brilliant reasons.
14:50
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, my favorite here is persistent thieving, so adultery,
14:59
Speaker 1: persistent thieving, bringing shame on his honor, and smothering her child.
15:09
Speaker 1: But like, how do to put this smothering specifically, not
15:14
Speaker 1: like burning or stabbing or I don't know, throwing into
15:19
Speaker 1: a pet of wolves smothering specifically that it does feel
15:25
Speaker 1: a little bit too specific, right, But the whole point
15:32
Speaker 1: of this is like women's role like was important. Like
15:38
Speaker 1: they were aware of how much they had to do
15:40
Speaker 1: and how important they were to like everything from like
15:43
Speaker 1: the economy of the area to like society as a
15:46
Speaker 1: whole culture. Yeah, what a surprise. Way back then they
15:50
Speaker 1: actually understood how valuable every member of the community was.
15:56
Speaker 1: And so like when we will get divorced, like there's
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Speaker 1: a division property, like who gets what stuff? So so
16:04
Speaker 1: who got what was kind of dependent on what kind
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Speaker 1: of marriage it was and what each spouse had in
16:09
Speaker 1: the marriage, So like it was three categories really, so
16:14
Speaker 1: you've got land, you've got labor, and then you've got
16:17
Speaker 1: livestock or like whatever other capital edges like literations. So
16:22
Speaker 1: depending on who owned land, like there's that you've got labor,
16:28
Speaker 1: and then you've got you know, capital, their livestock. So
16:33
Speaker 1: the product that was created, for example, that would be
16:37
Speaker 1: worth more than the raw materials. So say he had sheep,
16:42
Speaker 1: but she made wool out of it, right or spun things,
16:47
Speaker 1: you know, and then made cloth for like the village,
16:53
Speaker 1: that would be more valuable than the will, So like
16:56
Speaker 1: that was more important because that was like more important
16:59
Speaker 1: for like the community. Land. Well, the way that landing
17:04
Speaker 1: capital or like goods or like split depends on whose
17:09
Speaker 1: fault it was that the marriage was like dissolving, So
17:13
Speaker 1: like if one of them was like unfaithful or had
17:17
Speaker 1: been like a persistent faith or whatever, like that person
17:20
Speaker 1: would get less stuff. If the other person was you know, dodgy,
17:29
Speaker 1: they would get less stuff. But like if it was
17:32
Speaker 1: one of those trial marriages, things would basically be separated
17:36
Speaker 1: equally women in Ireland at the time, like who were
17:40
Speaker 1: living under brand law, they actually had a lot more
17:46
Speaker 1: rights and a better standard of living compared to like
17:51
Speaker 1: many other women in Europe. Like they were like ahead
17:54
Speaker 1: of the game for a long time. And then and
17:58
Speaker 1: then colonialism and I came in and that that just
18:01
Speaker 1: screwed a bunch of stuff up. Now let's leave Ireland,
18:05
Speaker 1: met's head over to France. And this is just gonna
18:08
Speaker 1: be a really quick overview for anybody who wasn't listening
18:11
Speaker 1: to last week's episode, but you should go and listen
18:14
Speaker 1: to it because it is good. So, say a woman
18:18
Speaker 1: is wanting to divorce her husband in very Catholic France,
18:24
Speaker 1: she only had one way to do so, and that's
18:28
Speaker 1: because it was basically illegal not to get jiggy with
18:33
Speaker 1: your spouse. So because again super Catholic, like the whole concept,
18:41
Speaker 1: the whole reason for marriage was procreation, to make more
18:44
Speaker 1: week Catholics for God and the webe baby Jesus, the
18:49
Speaker 1: weby baby Jesus, the baby Jesus, the baby baby baby,
18:52
Speaker 1: but baby Jesus, Oh my goodness. So and so, if
18:58
Speaker 1: you did want to get divorced in the times, especially
19:01
Speaker 1: as a woman like if your husband was beating you,
19:05
Speaker 1: if it was like a dangerous situation, you couldn't leave
19:09
Speaker 1: it like that, Like that wasn't enough. The only way
19:13
Speaker 1: out was to prove there was no swizzle in a
19:16
Speaker 1: stick and that you were not going to create morbi catholics, right,
19:23
Speaker 1: So you would have a trial by impotence or the
19:27
Speaker 1: imputance trials where because I went into more detail in
19:31
Speaker 1: the last episode, go listen to that, but Cliff notes version.
19:37
Speaker 1: There would be a trial and men would have to
19:39
Speaker 1: prove that, you know, everything was working down below then
19:44
Speaker 1: meeting to vege was fully functioning, that the flesh flute
19:50
Speaker 1: was not flaccid. So sometimes they would bring in learned
19:57
Speaker 1: and trustworthy women to to test the man to see
20:03
Speaker 1: if he was able to you know, become rigid and
20:09
Speaker 1: or expel fluids, well both actually because they would have
20:14
Speaker 1: to not only stand to attention, but they would have
20:19
Speaker 1: to reach the point of completion and you know, provide
20:26
Speaker 1: the appropriate baby graving. So they would be tested for
20:30
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff like based on like size, color,
20:35
Speaker 1: and you know, ability to hold up under pressure, which
20:41
Speaker 1: unless you've really got a voyeurism kink, it's that that's
20:46
Speaker 1: gonna be a voyeurism expedition. Nope, that's not it. Exhibitionist.
20:53
Speaker 1: If you're not an exhibitionist, that's it. Like, that's probably
20:57
Speaker 1: gonna be a tough situation at the best of time,
21:00
Speaker 1: let alone in this incredibly sterile environment. And women would
21:06
Speaker 1: be tested and one of their tests was to hold
21:10
Speaker 1: in their pay. That's that's how you check to see
21:15
Speaker 1: if a marriage is consummated. Apparently, so after the trial
21:22
Speaker 1: of impotence, if they were deemed whatever, you know, a
21:26
Speaker 1: man could then demand a trial by congress, which is
21:30
Speaker 1: just as bad as you think it is. So effectively, surgeons, priests,
21:34
Speaker 1: and nuns would watch the married couple, like, go at
21:40
Speaker 1: it right. So the priests and the surgeons would be
21:43
Speaker 1: behind a screen in a neutral location by the way,
21:48
Speaker 1: where this estranged couple would have to knock boots, so
21:54
Speaker 1: they would be going at it right. And sometimes this
21:56
Speaker 1: could last for actual hours. And so, yeah, the dudes
22:01
Speaker 1: are behind the screens. But the nuns they're not nuns, nurses, midwives.
22:09
Speaker 1: My brain is putting today. But yeah, they're down like
22:15
Speaker 1: at you know, body level there by the pillows, and
22:19
Speaker 1: they are watching intently to ensure that everything is going
22:23
Speaker 1: the way it should, that there's you know, P and V,
22:27
Speaker 1: and that everything is going well. So they're making sure
22:32
Speaker 1: that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, like
22:35
Speaker 1: they're making sure they aren't smuggling stuff in. And they
22:40
Speaker 1: also check like the bed afterwards for fluids, so like
22:48
Speaker 1: an appropriate amount of them, Like it is wild and
22:54
Speaker 1: if it's so much more embarrassing if you fail the
22:58
Speaker 1: trail by Congress as a was to just that, the
23:01
Speaker 1: trial by impotence, it's a whole thing. And yeah, yeah,
23:07
Speaker 1: medieval France, it was basically illegal not to have the
23:13
Speaker 1: horizontal tango with your spits. And now let's leave France
23:19
Speaker 1: because again covered at last episode, it's fine, let's go
23:23
Speaker 1: to Germany, or at least the area which is going
23:26
Speaker 1: to be known as Germany. We're still in medieval times.
23:29
Speaker 1: We're in the fifteenth century. And say you're in an
23:35
Speaker 1: unhappy marriage and you think I don't want to stay
23:38
Speaker 1: in this. You know I could stay with him, but
23:43
Speaker 1: fuck that for a game of soldiers. Language. Sorry language, sorry, bubba,
23:52
Speaker 1: do you forgive me? Yes? Thank you? Thank you are
23:57
Speaker 1: my mom? I am a good parent. Yeah, the world,
24:05
Speaker 1: thank you. Now we're in Germany, and you want to
24:09
Speaker 1: get rid of your spouse because you could stay in
24:13
Speaker 1: that relationship, but it's no good for you. And so
24:16
Speaker 1: you say fluff that for a game is soldiers and
24:23
Speaker 1: approval by the child? And so who is currently dressed
24:27
Speaker 1: like a dinosaur? And I'm gonna tatop Okay, Trice aeratopes
24:37
Speaker 1: does a hair before omni? You're an omnivore, you know what,
24:43
Speaker 1: you eat a carrot? And then we'll talk anyway. So, so, yeah,
24:49
Speaker 1: you're in Germany, You're want to get divorced, and okay,
24:54
Speaker 1: apparently this was more common the one would expect it
25:01
Speaker 1: to be. Instead of going to court, instead of you know,
25:07
Speaker 1: petitioning the pope, in order to get divorced, you would
25:13
Speaker 1: have a trial by combat, a trial by combat, divorce
25:19
Speaker 1: by combat. That is ridiculous and amazing. And you have
25:24
Speaker 1: no idea how ridiculous and amazing this is. But I
25:27
Speaker 1: am going to tell you because I cannot convey to
25:32
Speaker 1: you just I mean, I'm going to have to convey
25:37
Speaker 1: to you, obviously, because it'd be aware if I didn't, right,
25:40
Speaker 1: So let's get down to this. So generally, if you
25:45
Speaker 1: don't know what a trial by combat is, It's basically
25:50
Speaker 1: you would be judged by the fight, so you could
25:56
Speaker 1: say it was part of like the god's will or whatever.
26:01
Speaker 1: But you could have a champion who would fight for you,
26:04
Speaker 1: or you could fight for yourself. If you've seen Game
26:07
Speaker 1: of Thrones, you know what we're on about. But generally
26:12
Speaker 1: a trail by combat had i'm gonna call it like
26:17
Speaker 1: John Wick rules, like ethical hit man rules, so like
26:22
Speaker 1: no women, no children, no dogs, like so effectively, champions
26:32
Speaker 1: would like fight in the stead of of like women
26:36
Speaker 1: and children whatnot. However, the exception to this rule was
26:45
Speaker 1: medieval divorce. So typically in a trail by combat, a
26:50
Speaker 1: woman's champion would generally be her husband. Now this may
26:56
Speaker 1: be a way issue here, but in this scenario, a
27:01
Speaker 1: man cannot exactly fight himself. I mean he could, it
27:05
Speaker 1: would just be kind of sully really, I mean, I
27:09
Speaker 1: don't know, like somebody punching himself in the face, and
27:13
Speaker 1: nobody would win so effectively when it came to marital disputes,
27:19
Speaker 1: when it came to divorce, there is an exception to
27:24
Speaker 1: the husband being the champion rule, and that is the
27:30
Speaker 1: wife and husband do so ah, this is so good.
27:36
Speaker 1: I love it so much. So they get to pick
27:43
Speaker 1: their arms and just go for it. So it's here's
27:51
Speaker 1: the thing. It has to be a fair fight. And
27:55
Speaker 1: in order to do so, oh good, they had to
28:01
Speaker 1: make it a fair fight. And as men in general
28:05
Speaker 1: are physically stronger and women are not, Like as a
28:10
Speaker 1: general rule, I know some men who's as I could
28:13
Speaker 1: kick and I know some women who could beat me,
28:18
Speaker 1: and I probably thank them for it. But that's not
28:20
Speaker 1: the point. That's not the point. But like, typically, especially
28:26
Speaker 1: in medieval times, and this is where it's at. So
28:31
Speaker 1: instead of a regular duel where like each person gets
28:35
Speaker 1: to like pick the weapon of the choice, and because
28:40
Speaker 1: you know, men were supposed to be you know, accustomed
28:45
Speaker 1: to the tools of war, shall we say, women would
28:49
Speaker 1: be provided with a rock wrapped in cloth, which is
28:52
Speaker 1: basically like putting stones intoe a sock or like in
28:56
Speaker 1: a handbag or like a soft bag, like a top bag.
29:00
Speaker 1: So they would have that, and men they would use
29:04
Speaker 1: a wooden club of equal length. So now this already
29:10
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a fair fight because she's got like
29:14
Speaker 1: a cloth with a rock in it, and he has
29:19
Speaker 1: a wooden club, So that already seems a bit weird.
29:23
Speaker 1: But in order to ensure that this is fair, the
29:26
Speaker 1: man has his hand tied behind his back, one hand obviously,
29:31
Speaker 1: one hand for the club, one hand behind his back.
29:35
Speaker 1: And to ensure it is even fairer, I swear the
29:39
Speaker 1: man is in oh and not a metaphorcohol, not in
29:45
Speaker 1: a pit of despair, although he might be. He might
29:48
Speaker 1: be really sad. This is happening. Whom's to say? But yes,
29:52
Speaker 1: So there's the women. She is on top of the ground,
29:55
Speaker 1: she has her rocksack, and she's swinging away. Well. The
30:00
Speaker 1: man brandishes his wooden club of equal length, with one
30:04
Speaker 1: hand tied behind his back and standing chest high in
30:07
Speaker 1: a three foot wide hole, so he can maneuver around
30:11
Speaker 1: a little bit and try and like hit her with
30:13
Speaker 1: a stick, and she'd be swinging at him with her
30:17
Speaker 1: sack of rock. And you may be thinking to yourself, Wow,
30:20
Speaker 1: this is weird. It's about to get weirder because there
30:23
Speaker 1: are more roles to this. So effectively, she's like whack
30:27
Speaker 1: mole in him with this sack of rock, right the
30:31
Speaker 1: stones in a bag. She's supposed to hit him, swinging
30:34
Speaker 1: at him. He's trying to hit her with his club,
30:38
Speaker 1: but he is not allowed to touch the sides of
30:42
Speaker 1: the hole. If he does it, he forfeits one of
30:46
Speaker 1: the three clubs he has, so he gets three clubs
30:48
Speaker 1: and he loses one every time he touches the side
30:51
Speaker 1: of the hole like a game of operation, like off
30:56
Speaker 1: you go, doneh And if he loses all three club
31:00
Speaker 1: then he has to continue like without a weapon. So
31:04
Speaker 1: he has to like try and grab her at this point,
31:07
Speaker 1: and it becomes this really weird wrestling match where he
31:11
Speaker 1: has to try and pull her into the hole and
31:14
Speaker 1: she has to try and beat him into the It's
31:16
Speaker 1: just it's just madness at this point, and this thing
31:21
Speaker 1: would have had to have been judged, like officially judged.
31:24
Speaker 1: There would have been like a referee situation somebody had
31:27
Speaker 1: been watching over this. And on top of that as well,
31:30
Speaker 1: like who the hell came up with these rules? Like
31:34
Speaker 1: did they just get a bunch of seven year olds
31:36
Speaker 1: and let you make it work kids? Because there's there's
31:41
Speaker 1: too many factors like did a drunk crap boy come
31:44
Speaker 1: up with this? Because it really feels like this is
31:47
Speaker 1: one of those like the truth is stranger than fiction scenarios,
31:52
Speaker 1: But yeah, howd I put this? It actually gets worse
31:55
Speaker 1: because like the divorce by combat wasn't till the death,
32:01
Speaker 1: Like you didn't have to like end the life of
32:04
Speaker 1: your spouse effectively. But somebody did always die at the end.
32:10
Speaker 1: So if a woman lost, she would have to be
32:14
Speaker 1: buried alive in a hole, and if the man lost,
32:19
Speaker 1: he had to be executed with honor in the town square.
32:26
Speaker 1: I just just why can't people just like let them
32:30
Speaker 1: separate and go their own ways. That just feels extreme,
32:34
Speaker 1: just like a tad. But anyway, let's leave Germany. Now,
32:40
Speaker 1: let's trot on over to England and let me tell
32:44
Speaker 1: you about the penny auctions or in the mid nineteenth century.
32:52
Speaker 1: And yes, so the matrimonial causes act like it allowed divorce. Yeah,
33:02
Speaker 1: but here's the thing. You would have to spend like
33:07
Speaker 1: a ton of money, like a ridiculous amount of money,
33:10
Speaker 1: more than you would have for a deposit on a
33:15
Speaker 1: house nowadays, Like that is the amount of money you
33:18
Speaker 1: would have to spend in order to get divorced. And
33:21
Speaker 1: that's on the grounds of you know, adultery, abuse, you know,
33:27
Speaker 1: all the dodgy stuff. And even then, the only people
33:31
Speaker 1: who could really afford to pay the church and the
33:33
Speaker 1: government to allow them to get divorced were you know,
33:36
Speaker 1: rich white men really more so than anything else, and
33:41
Speaker 1: working class people they didn't really have the same options.
33:46
Speaker 1: And yeah, from like get throughout the nineteenth century and
33:51
Speaker 1: I'm way a bit into the twentieth century, people would
33:55
Speaker 1: just sell their wives. Like yeah, I mean it wasn't
34:02
Speaker 1: technically legal or official, but it definitely happened often enough.
34:08
Speaker 1: So like, between was it eighteen thirty seven and nineteen
34:11
Speaker 1: oh one, there were one hundred and eight documented cases
34:15
Speaker 1: of this happening. And as you and I well know
34:20
Speaker 1: that if for everything that is documented, there's probably two
34:24
Speaker 1: or three other instances of it not being documented, So
34:28
Speaker 1: this probably happened even more than we know about. So yeah,
34:34
Speaker 1: there is an unhappy marriage. And this is an auction,
34:37
Speaker 1: and it was kind of treated the same way as
34:38
Speaker 1: like a cattle auction. Is the woman would be led
34:42
Speaker 1: in with a rope around her neck and brought forth
34:46
Speaker 1: and paraded right. And the weird thing is like nine
34:50
Speaker 1: times out of ten this was usually done with the
34:53
Speaker 1: wife's permission. They in fairness, I could see being totally
34:59
Speaker 1: done with someone and stuff language, So I can see
35:08
Speaker 1: someone being totally done with someone's, you know, way of
35:12
Speaker 1: doing things, in someone's behavior, in someone's attitude, in someone's
35:15
Speaker 1: dirty socks, and just being like, you know what, cool, adios,
35:20
Speaker 1: I'm out. So yeah, a lot of the times you
35:23
Speaker 1: would have the cooperation of the wife because unlike say,
35:33
Speaker 1: for example, you know, when people were sold as property
35:40
Speaker 1: slave auctions and the like, you know, who did not
35:44
Speaker 1: have a say in this. In these penny auctions, the
35:50
Speaker 1: woman that was for sale was just as excited to
35:55
Speaker 1: leave her quote unquote owner as he was to like
35:59
Speaker 1: get rid of her. And she actually had some autonomy.
36:03
Speaker 1: You know, she could turn down a bit if she
36:07
Speaker 1: wasn't happy with it. If you know, the person was
36:10
Speaker 1: like disgusting or did not live a life that felt
36:15
Speaker 1: was up to her standards, or you know, didn't have
36:19
Speaker 1: any teeth, whatever it was, she could just say no,
36:21
Speaker 1: she could turn it down. And sometimes as well, the
36:29
Speaker 1: way this would work is if the woman had you know,
36:32
Speaker 1: a little something something on the side. Sometimes the person
36:35
Speaker 1: who actually purchased her was like her side piece, her lover,
36:42
Speaker 1: her clem fandango, you know, and uh huh, like oh god,
36:51
Speaker 1: I've got it was one year where these these auctions,
36:55
Speaker 1: one of them had had his wife come out and
36:59
Speaker 1: he referred to as this is absolutely glorious. So he
37:03
Speaker 1: said that she was a born serpent, which he took
37:06
Speaker 1: for comfort, but unfortunately, instead of being a comfort, she
37:12
Speaker 1: was a tormentor, a domestic curse, a night invasion, and
37:17
Speaker 1: daily devil. He stated, gentlemen, I speak truth from my
37:23
Speaker 1: heart when I say, May God deliver us from troublesome
37:25
Speaker 1: wives and frolicsome women. Frolicsome? Is he saying that she
37:31
Speaker 1: was like to Randy for him? Is that? Is that
37:35
Speaker 1: the issue he did? He did say that she could
37:43
Speaker 1: milk cows and read novels, which I'm not entirely sure
37:48
Speaker 1: is a compliment, but it seems. But he did also
37:51
Speaker 1: say that she could make rum gin and whiskey, which uh,
37:56
Speaker 1: definitely seems like more of a selling point. I think
37:58
Speaker 1: he was realized his pitch was going awry and was like, no, please,
38:02
Speaker 1: somebody take her, like, please, anybody here. She does good
38:06
Speaker 1: things too, which is which is probably as polite as
38:11
Speaker 1: it does get in a divorce proceeding. I guess there
38:15
Speaker 1: was one wife auction that I really really love, and
38:20
Speaker 1: it was this dude was trying to tell his wife.
38:23
Speaker 1: He was like, you know, I'm done with her whatever,
38:28
Speaker 1: and his next door neighbor bought her and she left
38:34
Speaker 1: moved in next door and left the husband with all
38:36
Speaker 1: the kids. And I just found it so funny. It
38:42
Speaker 1: really it really just tickled me. Yeah, and there we go.
38:48
Speaker 1: That is that is history of divorces or forms of
38:53
Speaker 1: divorce just better options. Really, maybe we should bring back
38:59
Speaker 1: trail by combat, but maybe we should not have like
39:03
Speaker 1: the automatic weird executions at the end, just as a
39:09
Speaker 1: just as an idea, like just saying, if you liked
39:14
Speaker 1: me talking about divorces, writing review five stars, share this,
39:20
Speaker 1: download it, share it more, just make other people listen
39:24
Speaker 1: to it, you know, just go for it. And yeah,
39:29
Speaker 1: what do we learned today? We learned that getting divorced
39:34
Speaker 1: is always been kind of tricky and that probably, like
39:38
Speaker 1: I still maintain the trail by combat is my favorite.
39:41
Speaker 1: If you have a favorite, like tweet me, dm me
39:45
Speaker 1: on Instagram, post it on TikTok, whatever whatever works for you.
39:49
Speaker 1: Just I'd love to hear it or any kind of
39:54
Speaker 1: weird divorce lot like historically that you know of, like
39:57
Speaker 1: let me know, because this is just far two end
40:00
Speaker 1: testing for me. I love it. I love it. It's
40:02
Speaker 1: like weird marriage customs from around the world which are
40:05
Speaker 1: like very typical and traditional and things like that, and
40:11
Speaker 1: just you know, they're fun. I just love learning new stuff,
40:14
Speaker 1: and especially if I don't know, it's so good. Oh
40:18
Speaker 1: where was I now? Yes, So before I get into
40:22
Speaker 1: anything else, before I finish off this, we're gonna talk
40:26
Speaker 1: about the giveaway. So I'm going to be doing two giveaways,
40:33
Speaker 1: one of which, if you're in the States, is I
40:36
Speaker 1: am an honored guest. I'm guest speaking and I'm doing
40:40
Speaker 1: three workshops and a live podcast recording at the Heartland
40:45
Speaker 1: Pagan Festival that's into the night. It's on Memorial Weekend.
40:51
Speaker 1: And I'm actually gonna be doing like a live thing
40:54
Speaker 1: this Saturday if you're listening to this unrelease date, So
40:58
Speaker 1: it's going to be a Wee live thing a week
41:00
Speaker 1: we promo that's gonna be going live this Saturday. And yeah,
41:05
Speaker 1: on the first week of March, I'm gonna be doing
41:07
Speaker 1: a giveaway. Ah, I'm gonna do I'm gonna run it
41:11
Speaker 1: for a week just because I want to get it
41:13
Speaker 1: nice and quickly and done and make it easy for everybody.
41:17
Speaker 1: And We're going to do a giveaway for a pass
41:19
Speaker 1: for the Heartland Pagan Festival in Kansas. Obviously, if you're
41:23
Speaker 1: in and around the area, it's going to be like
41:25
Speaker 1: better for you to sort of apply apply sounds so weird,
41:31
Speaker 1: like to go for it. I'm going to be doing
41:33
Speaker 1: a second giveaway, which is just it was just for followers.
41:39
Speaker 1: It was just for supporters and just like greatly just
41:42
Speaker 1: like appreciate stuff. I had initially planned to do a
41:46
Speaker 1: giveaway when I was like on Instagram and I was like,
41:49
Speaker 1: you know what, when I hit two thousand followers, I'll
41:51
Speaker 1: do a giveaway. And then for some reason, something blew up,
41:54
Speaker 1: something just like really grew and I had I went
41:58
Speaker 1: to fivey and ten thousand, and like within a month,
42:01
Speaker 1: I had one hundred thousand followers and I've kind of
42:03
Speaker 1: plateaued since then, and that's fine, Like I'm not fussed
42:06
Speaker 1: about it. I'd rather have you lot just happily listening
42:11
Speaker 1: and having you continue to listen and continue to follow,
42:14
Speaker 1: than to lose any of you. Like, I don't need
42:19
Speaker 1: new or more followers. I just want the people who
42:23
Speaker 1: want to learn and want to listen to continue, you know,
42:27
Speaker 1: I want to build this and have a community. I
42:31
Speaker 1: just think it'd be awesome. I'm trying so hard not
42:35
Speaker 1: to swear. I'm so trying. And yeah, So I've spent
42:39
Speaker 1: the last few while collecting stuff. So I've got books,
42:42
Speaker 1: I've got some from a personal collection as well. They're
42:44
Speaker 1: going in it. I have like stuff prints from independent artists.
42:50
Speaker 1: I've got just things have been made by independent artists too,
42:56
Speaker 1: you know. I've got like jewelry approaches, and I did
43:00
Speaker 1: have stickers do I still have stickers. There's just like
43:02
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff. I just have to find it
43:05
Speaker 1: where I've put it because I've been collecting for so
43:08
Speaker 1: long that they're just in like different places in my house.
43:11
Speaker 1: And that's going to be coming up too. But you'll
43:13
Speaker 1: actually know when and where that's going to drop. But
43:20
Speaker 1: I'll let you know in like a future episode. And
43:23
Speaker 1: because the listeners like everything, every social media thing I do,
43:28
Speaker 1: all of that, it exists for this podcast. And so
43:32
Speaker 1: the listeners of this podcast are going to get first
43:34
Speaker 1: debs really because you're going to know when and where.
43:37
Speaker 1: So yeah, on the first of March, I am going
43:41
Speaker 1: to like release the information for the giveaway on on
43:48
Speaker 1: on Instagram and I'm gonna do it, you know what, Yeah,
43:54
Speaker 1: you know what I'll do first of March, I'll do
43:58
Speaker 1: non Eastern Standard times. Seems like a good in Eastern
44:03
Speaker 1: Standard time. Yeah, no, yeah, you know, we'll do it
44:06
Speaker 1: that way because I struggle enough to know when zones
44:09
Speaker 1: are like I struggle with time zones because my brain
44:12
Speaker 1: is not mathematically inclined, and it's embarrassing that it's not
44:16
Speaker 1: mathematically inclined. But there we are. So yes, I'm going
44:21
Speaker 1: to talk about somebody that we've got that done with.
44:24
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about Esmy Louise James. I bloody
44:30
Speaker 1: love her. I had someone come into my Instagram comments
44:35
Speaker 1: up one of my History Harlot posts and they were like,
44:37
Speaker 1: are you trying to like compete with the kinky history lady?
44:40
Speaker 1: And this is not the first time I've had comments
44:42
Speaker 1: like this. I've had people tag her in my videos.
44:46
Speaker 1: I've been tagged in hers. I have been sent dms
44:49
Speaker 1: from people who accused each of us from stealing from
44:52
Speaker 1: each other when we just overlap on occasion, and sometimes
44:57
Speaker 1: we'll have similar turns of phrases just because we both
45:00
Speaker 1: have to circumvent like the same censorship issues, and sometimes
45:05
Speaker 1: our wording can be similar because we've used the same
45:08
Speaker 1: reference source. You know, we've said to the same thing,
45:11
Speaker 1: and sometimes we just kind of speak alike because we
45:16
Speaker 1: both originated in the same place, you know what I mean.
45:19
Speaker 1: And yeah, she's amazing and her podcast is bloody fantastic.
45:28
Speaker 1: If you listen to me, you listen to her. She's
45:31
Speaker 1: cooler than me, and yeah, smarter than me too, actually
45:37
Speaker 1: she is. She's just fantastic. And here's the thing, this
45:40
Speaker 1: whole competing, this whole petting women in a field against
45:45
Speaker 1: each other. Ah, we don't need to trail bout combat here,
45:49
Speaker 1: like there's no there is no issue here, Like we
45:54
Speaker 1: exist in the same space. It's fine. It's like doctor
45:59
Speaker 1: kit List exists. Esmy is soon going to be doctor
46:03
Speaker 1: Esmey James, you know what I mean. Like I'm academia
46:07
Speaker 1: is not for me. I'm done, I'm out of it,
46:10
Speaker 1: Like I'm I don't want to go back to it.
46:13
Speaker 1: I am happy where I am and I and I
46:16
Speaker 1: have always said that the reason that I teach history
46:19
Speaker 1: the way I do is because I believe history should
46:22
Speaker 1: be accessible. And so my whole point is we can
46:27
Speaker 1: all exist in the same space. Melissa, doctor Kate, as May,
46:32
Speaker 1: a bunch of other ones, his name, I don't remember. Like,
46:36
Speaker 1: we can exist in the same space and it is fine.
46:38
Speaker 1: We're not We're not in competition, you know, and one
46:44
Speaker 1: of us doing well, someone having success isn't detrimental to
46:47
Speaker 1: the rest of us. It just means that maybe more
46:51
Speaker 1: of us will be recognized. Like this is not, you know,
46:56
Speaker 1: a girl Boss situation. You know, we're not stepping on
47:00
Speaker 1: each other to get to the top, like we lift
47:03
Speaker 1: each other up. We support each other, and if we
47:06
Speaker 1: don't do that, then we fail. Like someone else's success
47:12
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're losing. It doesn't mean I'm losing.
47:15
Speaker 1: And that is why recommendation time listen. Your listening recommendation
47:21
Speaker 1: is the Kinky History podcast with Esmi Louise James, and
47:25
Speaker 1: I want you to go on there. And when I
47:27
Speaker 1: listen to her, I don't want you to rate and
47:28
Speaker 1: review five stars for her as well, because she deserves it.
47:32
Speaker 1: You can tell her I sent you. I don't mind.
47:35
Speaker 1: She deserves every success. That woman works so hard all
47:39
Speaker 1: the time. I am surprised she is fully functioning like
47:44
Speaker 1: as a human at this point because she has she
47:47
Speaker 1: doesn't stop. She's always working, she's always researching, and she
47:53
Speaker 1: deserves every accolade, every success, every round of applause. She
48:00
Speaker 1: deserves it and you should give it to her because
48:02
Speaker 1: she's bloody amazing. Like she I remember when people were
48:06
Speaker 1: like originally like tagging her way back, and like she
48:12
Speaker 1: would come on and be like, hey, best day to
48:14
Speaker 1: sort of you know, get rid of any concept of animosity.
48:21
Speaker 1: Bloody fantastic. So yeah, listening recommendation as may Louise go
48:27
Speaker 1: listen to her. She's fantastic. Can Gey History podcast. For reading,
48:34
Speaker 1: I am gonna suggest the Tuesday Martyr Club. But Agatha Christie.
48:39
Speaker 1: I love Agatha Christie. I regret nothing. Who doesn't love her,
48:43
Speaker 1: donn it. If you don't love her, donn it. You
48:44
Speaker 1: don't have to read it. But I'm just saying it's great.
48:47
Speaker 1: And for watching, you know what, go watch The Mummy
48:54
Speaker 1: and The Mummy returns. We love Brendan Frazier here, so
49:00
Speaker 1: go watch em. Go what. Rachel Weiss be amazing, and
49:04
Speaker 1: you know what is just an amazing ensemble cast and
49:07
Speaker 1: is probably er the reason for so many by awakenings.
49:11
Speaker 1: But go watch those movies. They're amazing. Have a great time.
49:16
Speaker 1: And with that, I am going to bid you good night.
49:20
Speaker 1: Adrios Au Revoir of What is Them? My Friends by
49:24
Speaker 1: by