Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Cal Coburn Brown: Washington's Last Execution | Pt. 2

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Cal Coburn Brown: Washington's Last Execution | Pt. 2 · PNW Haunts & Homicides

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  And I hear them call me by my name.
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  You guys were back.
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  And don't worry, we did get more wine.
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  Well, of course.
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  Hi, Cassie.
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  Hi, Caitlyn.
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  Hi, creepy people.
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  Hi.
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  Hello.
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  Hello, out there.
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  What show is this again?
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  PNW Haunts and Homicides.
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  Oh, my.
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  We're going to get through the worst parts pretty quickly.
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  And then we'll just get to talk about stuff that's--
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  it's not as bad.
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  OK.
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  I think.
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  Yeah.
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  Like I remember.
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  And then we get to do a tarot reading.
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  So it's all going to be good-ish in the end.
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  Yeah.
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  Cassie does her editing magic, makes me sound like a genius.
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  Everyone lives happily ever after.
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  I bedazzle the fuck out of you.
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  Oh, boy.
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  Apparently, I need to be bedazzled.
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  So much so that if you met Caitlyn in real life,
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  you'd be like, who am I talking to?
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  Do you think--
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  No.
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  Do you think they were confused when they met me at PNW
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  True Crime Fest?
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  I thought you were like, do you think?
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  Oh.
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  I mean, it's a serious question.
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  No.
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  OK.
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  You were an eloquent, beautiful speaker.
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  We didn't edit one bit of the live from PNW True Crime Fest.
• 4:14
  That's true.
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  That was all natural.
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  Yeah.
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  I'm kind of like a rock where either--
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  you just apply an extreme amount of pressure.
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  And I'm either just crushed into 1,000 shards.
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  Or I become something stronger.
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  Or--
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  Like a diamond.
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  She's like the rock, and she raises one of her eyebrows.
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  I do do that.
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  I'm doing it right now.
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  I was sitting on that joke ever since she said rock.
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  And I was like giggling to myself like, he--
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  I was like rocks are not that funny, Cassie.
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  Oh, boy.
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  Anyway.
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  Well, I mean, we tried.
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  We kept it light-hearted for a minute there.
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  All right.
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  Part two of Cal Coburn Brown.
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  Agreed.
• 5:11
  On Memorial Day, May 27 of 1991,
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  the King County Police discovered the body of a 21-year-old woman
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  Ms. Holly C. Washa in the trunk of her 1985
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  Blue.
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  Automobile parked in space 266 of a budget park and ride
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  lot near the Seattle Tacoma Airport.
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  Because, of course, by then, they
• 5:41
  had received a telephone call from the detectives
• 5:44
  in Palm Springs.
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  Holly was found wearing a leather jacket that
• 5:49
  was covered in blood with a strap of her purse around her neck.
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  In fact, by this time, the strap had
• 5:57
  managed to work its way into one of the deep slash wounds
• 6:01
  on her neck.
• 6:02
  No.
• 6:04
  I know that's probably the worst part
• 6:08
  of the description of her body when she was discovered.
• 6:10
  Yeah.
• 6:13
  I don't like it.
• 6:15
  Cal would reveal that he moved the vehicle
• 6:18
  after realizing that Holly's blood was
• 6:21
  beginning to spill out from the trunk of her vehicle.
• 6:26
  Well, yeah, I wonder why that was happening.
• 6:29
  Yeah.
• 6:30
  Funny how that will happen when you slit someone's throat
• 6:34
  and leave them in a trunk.
• 6:36
  And stab them how many times?
• 6:39
  I'm not even sure.
• 6:40
  That's a really--
• 6:41
  Yeah.
• 6:42
  No, I mean, it's--
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  Apparently, the spot that he moved the vehicle to
• 6:49
  before hopping on his flight to meet Susan,
• 6:52
  he assumed her blood would be washed away by the Seattle rain.
• 6:56
  Yeah, I--
• 7:00
  Yeah.
• 7:01
  I deeply, deeply hate that.
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  On June 11, of 1991, in the King County Superior
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  Court, Cal Cobra and Brown was charged with aggravated murder
• 7:16
  in the first degree.
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  He was arraigned on February 26 of 1992.
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  A notice to determine whether the death penalty should be imposed
• 7:27
  was filed on March 24, 1992.
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  The trial itself began with jury selection
• 7:35
  on October 25 of the following year, 1993.
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  It's like crazy to see how this just
• 7:43
  drags out over already multiple cares.
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  Yeah.
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  When he so clearly did it, and he admitted
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  to the other one, it still druged out that long.
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  Yeah.
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  We're looking at June of '91 to October of '93.
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  And that's just when the trial is beginning.
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  Wow.
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  And he applied guilty to everything, right?
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  There wasn't--
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  Well, I mean, the tough thing about it
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  is that you complete guilty and still
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  be trying to position yourself in a way
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  that lessens your sentence.
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  And depending on the situation, that might look differently.
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  But the thing that's tough for me is,
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  we get a lot of case suggestions or people sending us
• 8:41
  news updates about cases that are not yet at trial.
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  And a lot of times, you can't publicly
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  access information about what's happened in the case
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  up to that point.
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  And sadly, unless I just become an investigative journalist,
• 9:03
  I can't really do much with those until we have a little bit more.
• 9:10
  Yeah.
• 9:11
  Well, what are you doing with your life over there
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  than you do with the month?
• 9:13
  Yeah.
• 9:16
  Yeah, I'm going to go to law school.
• 9:17
  OK.
• 9:18
  What?
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  Like it's hard.
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  The guilt phase of court testimony
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  began following the Thanksgiving holiday on November 30th.
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  Happy holidays.
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  On December 10th of 1993, the jury
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  returned a verdict of guilty of premeditated murder
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  in the first degree, finding that Cal
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  committed the murder to conceal commission of a crime
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  or to protect or conceal his identity
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  and found aggravating circumstances
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  of robbery in the first or second degree,
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  rape in the first or second degree,
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  and kidnapping in the first degree as well.
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  And that takes us to the penalty phase of the trial, which
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  began on December 15th of 1993.
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  Seriously.
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  What a way to live in up the holidays.
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  Yeah, right.
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  Just-- it's a lot.
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  What do you mean they can't really pause?
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  Because it's like, oh, it's the holiday season we can't try
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  to be the murder.
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  Yeah.
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  No, I mean, it's kind of serious.
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  So we just kind of have to keep on chugging
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  lugging through, but--
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  Yeah.
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  I do feel bad for anybody that that is kind of thrust upon them.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, like the judge and the lawyers and all the jurors--
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  during that time.
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  I mean, more so for the jurors, because that's not
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  what they do in their everyday lives.
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  Where is the judge and the lawyers,
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  while it may not always be a case that's quite the spurtle,
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  they're always working in the legal system, in the court system.
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  There's some tenuous string to at least the processes
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  and all of that.
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  Think about it.
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  As a juror, you're having to learn how every piece of this system
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  works.
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  And then also, apparently, you're probably
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  sending other relatives out to do your Christmas shopping.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  You're a bit tied up.
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  So I know.
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  First world problems, I get it.
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  But I'm just saying it's a tough situation
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  to be in from so many different angles.
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  Yeah.
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  That's all.
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  Yeah.
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  It's not a competition.
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  Yeah.
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  The suffering Olympics.
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  It's where no one wins.
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  Right.
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  Then on December 27th of 1993--
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  again, seriously, just two days after Christmas, like--
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  Wow.
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  It's just a lot.
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  It's a lot.
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  Do you think they had Christmas off?
• 12:16
  Oh, I'm sure they do.
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  Yeah, federal courts, you are relieved of duty, I'm sure,
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  for all of those major holidays.
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  So just two days after Christmas,
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  the jury returned a verdict finding
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  there were not sufficient mitigating circumstances
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  to merit leniency.
• 12:40
  That sounds good.
• 12:42
  Yeah, it does, right?
• 12:43
  I wasn't quite sure how you would react to that,
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  because I thought you might go, wait, what part
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  of this whole process are--
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  Where are we at?
• 12:52
  What's happening?
• 12:54
  Your words confuse me, Haylon.
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  It is a good thing, potentially.
• 13:01
  Some people may be upset by this.
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  But not these two today.
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  Yeah, not today.
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  Not today, Satan.
• 13:11
  So we're in the sentencing phase at this point, penalty
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  phase.
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  I love it when I can find something that
• 13:19
  buttons up the court proceedings with a summary that
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  kind of incorporates somehow both the legal jargon
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  that my nerd brain craves, but isn't completely obtuse.
• 13:34
  Yeah.
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  And I just have to say that at this point in my research
• 13:38
  for the case, the dopamine was severely lacking.
• 13:44
  And being able to read it and then spell it out for you guys
• 13:47
  like this kind of restored the juice.
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  Good.
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  On January 28, 1994, the death sentence was imposed.
• 13:59
  What?
• 14:00
  I know.
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  And she's like, I actually knew that.
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  I didn't know that.
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  But still, when I read it, I was shocked.
• 14:07
  Yeah.
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  Because you don't hear that a lot around here,
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  especially this recently, like in the '90s, you know?
• 14:13
  Well, we think of--
• 14:14
  I knew the '90s.
• 14:15
  --the '90s were recent.
• 14:16
  They were.
• 14:17
  Yeah.
• 14:18
  Well, in terms of when you're talking about precedence
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  being set--
• 14:22
  Yeah.
• 14:23
  --because the legal system obviously is quite a bit older
• 14:27
  than we are.
• 14:28
  So recent is-- it's all relative.
• 14:31
  So I mean, I take your meaning.
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  Yeah.
• 14:34
  I'm not old.
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  Yeah.
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  We're basically infants.
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  In the '90s.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
• 14:42
  Yeah, in the '90s, when his legal team
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  would later appeal his sentence with a Supreme Court
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  of Washington, the following opinion
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  was returned in July of 1997, stating,
• 14:56
  a balance death sentence is not disproportionate
• 15:01
  when his criminal history is considered.
• 15:05
  His record includes prior convictions
• 15:08
  for assault with a deadly weapon, grand theft,
• 15:15
  attempted assault in the first degree, assault
• 15:19
  in the second degree, attempted murder in the first degree,
• 15:25
  aggravated mayhem, torture, false imprisonment,
• 15:31
  and robbery in the first degree.
• 15:35
  His criminal record shows a history of violence towards others.
• 15:40
  His criminal history is comparatively more extensive
• 15:44
  than that of other appellans who received the death penalty.
• 15:50
  And this is important.
• 15:52
  OK.
• 15:54
  For his final meal, Cal Coburn Brown had a combination
• 15:59
  pizza and apple pie with both coffee and milk.
• 16:04
  Of course, his last meal isn't how we're going to end this story
• 16:10
  because he also had a few things to say.
• 16:14
  I don't care.
• 16:16
  What kind of pizza did he have?
• 16:18
  Combination.
• 16:19
  I know, but from where?
• 16:20
  I don't know.
• 16:22
  You really want to hone in on the pizza?
• 16:25
  I hate that they get to choose their last meal.
• 16:29
  I don't give a fuck.
• 16:30
  Yeah.
• 16:31
  Have cold oatmeal.
• 16:33
  Yeah.
• 16:34
  You know, when there's not quite enough water,
• 16:36
  so it's actually kind of undercooked,
• 16:39
  do they even need to eat?
• 16:40
  Like, where they're going?
• 16:42
  Do they need sustenance?
• 16:43
  Probably not.
• 16:45
  He spoke just prior to his execution.
• 16:48
  I understand your feelings and your hatred for me.
• 16:53
  For the actions I took against your daughter and sister.
• 16:57
  I hope the actions that you've done
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  are not what you're going to do.
• 17:02
  I hope the actions taken tonight give you the closure you seek.
• 17:10
  Looking toward the witnesses, he acknowledged the anger of Washa's family,
• 17:17
  but did not apologize.
• 17:22
  Brown complained about sentencing disparities,
• 17:28
  citing the case of Green River Killer Gary L. Ridgeway,
• 17:33
  who was sentenced to life in prison for the murders of 48 women
• 17:38
  after he cooperated with authorities.
• 17:41
  And why, too, Tony, who could someday be released from prison
• 17:49
  despite his role in the deaths of 13 people in Seattle's 1983
• 17:55
  Wami Massacre.
• 17:57
  Oh.
• 18:00
  He went on to state, I only killed one victim.
• 18:07
  I cannot really see that there is true justice,
• 18:12
  hopefully sometime in the future, that gets straightened out.
• 18:19
  When he was done, Brown said, thank you.
• 18:25
  God bless you and God bless my family.
• 18:30
  Thank you.
• 18:33
  I guess.
• 18:33
  I guess.
• 18:34
  Thank you for letting him speak.
• 18:35
  Yeah.
• 18:36
  I guess so.
• 18:37
  Yeah.
• 18:38
  The Supreme Court has already said your criminal history
• 18:42
  is comparatively more extensive than that of other appellans
• 18:48
  who received the death penalty.
• 18:51
  And listen, I have some complicated feelings about the death penalty.
• 18:56
  I think a lot of us do.
• 18:58
  Yeah.
• 19:02
  Kal, I'm pretty sure you did it.
• 19:06
  And I'm pretty sure that I want you to die for it.
• 19:09
  It was fucked up.
• 19:11
  But I mean, I do see his point.
• 19:14
  Like, he did only kill one person.
• 19:17
  So, like, you know, it's no 48.
• 19:21
  Unfortunately.
• 19:22
  I mean, sarcastic.
• 19:23
  Everybody just so everybody knows.
• 19:27
  Unfortunately, in these situations, what we run into is individuals like Ridgeway have
• 19:40
  unfortunately by virtue of the volume, the number, I mean, absolutely overwhelming number
• 19:51
  of victims that he has.
• 19:54
  It affords him a bargaining chip because there are so many where bodies haven't been recovered
• 20:04
  or they may not be able to give the family answers unless he's willing to talk.
• 20:13
  Yeah.
• 20:14
  And I hate to say this, but in some respects, it rewards serial killers.
• 20:25
  If you think about it in that way.
• 20:28
  Yeah.
• 20:29
  I hate everything about this case and about Ridgeway, but just to look at it very coldly,
• 20:37
  very logically, it's unfortunate.
• 20:41
  He could have killed Susan though.
• 20:44
  It is attempted murder.
• 20:46
  Yeah.
• 20:47
  I don't think that he didn't intend to kill her.
• 20:51
  He's let her throw.
• 20:52
  Yeah, to think what he would have done.
• 20:59
  Yeah.
• 21:00
  I don't want to.
• 21:01
  No, I mean, we've already talked about it with Holly and there's no doubt in my mind
• 21:06
  that where things stopped with Susan is by happenstance.
• 21:19
  Unlike Holly's horrific ordeal, Cal Coburn Brown was dead roughly 90 seconds after being
• 21:27
  intravenously administered the five grams of sodium thio-pental.
• 21:36
  Cal's legal team and numerous private citizens spoke up against the use of capital punishment
• 21:43
  as a moral and ethical issue.
• 21:46
  In fact, his legal team had once argued that the state's three drug method of lethal injection,
• 21:55
  which is a combination of an anesthetic, a paralyzer, and a heart attack inducing drug,
• 22:03
  constituted cruel and unusual punishment and was prone to error, resulting in an ultimately
• 22:10
  temporary stay of execution from the state Supreme Court.
• 22:18
  Did they argue this before or after?
• 22:21
  Before.
• 22:22
  Okay.
• 22:23
  But they still have.
• 22:24
  That's how he got the state of execution.
• 22:26
  Okay.
• 22:27
  Yeah.
• 22:29
  In July of 2010, the state switched to a singular drug method for execution, making it one
• 22:36
  of only two states to use the method, the other being Ohio.
• 22:42
  And of course, making the legal argument that kept him alive some additional months no longer
• 22:48
  valid reasoning to further delay his execution, at least legally speaking.
• 22:56
  If you don't like the three drug method and we switched to one, you're going to have to
• 23:01
  find some peer reviewed studies that take issue with a single drug method to get another
• 23:08
  stay of execution.
• 23:11
  Brown's execution marked the first time the state has used a single drug method of execution.
• 23:18
  He was a 78th man to be executed in Washington.
• 23:23
  And to date, Cal Coburn Brown was the last person executed in the state of Washington.
• 23:30
  Well, that is crazy.
• 23:33
  That is crazy.
• 23:34
  Yeah.
• 23:35
  It was crazy to me that he was the first to use that method.
• 23:39
  Yeah.
• 23:40
  But then also he was the last.
• 23:43
  Yeah.
• 23:44
  I know.
• 23:45
  It's kind of a momentous sort of occurrence, which feels a little bit odd to say, but it
• 23:55
  looks as though he may end up being the final execution as governor J. Inzley issued a
• 24:01
  moratorium on executions in 2014.
• 24:08
  But let's address something about this case that particularly angered me.
• 24:17
  In order to do so, we just need to time travel back to 1984.
• 24:25
  Okay.
• 24:26
  Just real quick.
• 24:28
  Back then he was a freshman at Oregon State University and had been introduced to a woman
• 24:35
  with two young sons by her babysitter.
• 24:39
  Oh.
• 24:40
  Okay.
• 24:42
  He showed up at the woman's home wearing a hat and backpack.
• 24:48
  He persuaded her to let him rest what he claimed was a sprained leg.
• 24:56
  When she turned her head to call him a cab, he attempted to choke her using like a leather
• 25:05
  strap type device.
• 25:07
  Geez.
• 25:08
  Was it from the backpack?
• 25:12
  He may have had it stored in the backpack.
• 25:15
  Yeah.
• 25:16
  It's sort of an unusual incident.
• 25:23
  The whole thing is very bizarre.
• 25:26
  Later she would state that she rolled to her side and saw him wild eyed staring into her
• 25:34
  face.
• 25:35
  Ooh.
• 25:36
  Luckily, a nearby police officer heard her screams and was able to place cow under
• 25:45
  arrest.
• 25:47
  Now these next two statements I wouldn't say are fun facts by any stretch, but I literally
• 25:55
  can't decide which one is scarier.
• 26:02
  Police found a large knife and a roll of two inch wide duct tape in his backpack.
• 26:09
  No.
• 26:10
  He had a murder kit.
• 26:15
  And number two, the woman's two small sons were home during the attack.
• 26:25
  That's terrifying.
• 26:27
  Like, what was he going to do to all of them?
• 26:31
  I mean, maybe he had no idea that the kids were even there, you know, depending on the time
• 26:36
  of day and how much he knew about her.
• 26:40
  He may have assumed she was home alone, which might make it worse if he startled my children.
• 26:45
  What's he going to do?
• 26:48
  I just...
• 26:51
  It could have been so much worse.
• 26:54
  It's horrific, but it could have been so much worse.
• 27:00
  Calcoburn Brown was sentenced as a dangerous offender for this attempted assault in Corvallis
• 27:07
  Oregon.
• 27:09
  But now we're going to see just how far back there's clear evidence of a violent pattern.
• 27:16
  The type that almost without exception will continue to escalate.
• 27:24
  He already had an extensive criminal record, including a 1977 conviction in California
• 27:32
  that involved a knife assault on a woman in a shopping center.
• 27:39
  Cal served the minimum seven and a half year sentence for the Oregon attempted assault
• 27:44
  conviction.
• 27:46
  And he was released on parole from the Oregon State Penitentiary on March 25, 1991, after
• 27:55
  receiving a favorable psychiatric evaluation.
• 28:01
  He had been sentenced to 15 years after being convicted of first degree assault, but was
• 28:08
  released after serving about half the time.
• 28:12
  I hate that.
• 28:13
  It's great.
• 28:14
  I always hate that.
• 28:16
  Fantastic, why? Following his release, Cal was placed under the supervision of a parole
• 28:23
  officer, who specialized in the supervision of sex offenders. The parole officer was given
• 28:31
  a letter from the district attorney who had prosecuted Brown on the dangerous offender
• 28:36
  case. In the letter, the DA stated that not only did he consider Brown to be one of the
• 28:43
  most dangerous criminals whom he had ever prosecuted, but also that, quote, "unless he is
• 28:53
  undergone a remarkable transformation in prison, he will remain a potential mutilator and killer
• 29:02
  of women." "Origin, girl, are you okay?" "Why'd they release him?" "I believe that people
• 29:17
  can alter their paths in life, but I'm not sure that they ever really fundamentally change.
• 29:26
  This is not the type of offender that should be released without an abundance of caution,
• 29:33
  even at that early stage." "Yeah." "He's already proven that he is very dangerous."
• 29:42
  "I just don't understand what, like even for good behavior, like, yeah, there's no women to
• 29:49
  fucking murder in prison, so, of course, he's going to be all right." "Yeah, it seems like it."
• 29:54
  During the first two months of his parole, Cal had enrolled as a student at Oregon State University
• 30:04
  and met with his parole officer as required. And I'm sure everybody on the campus had no idea
• 30:11
  which is horrifying. "That is gross." However, near the end of that period, his parole officer
• 30:19
  could not get in touch with him. So it was on May 23rd of 1991 that his parole officer
• 30:29
  requested that an arrest warrant be filed. It was on that very same day that Holly was
• 30:38
  cajacked in the parking lot of the hotel near the Seattle Tacoma Airport.
• 30:43
  "That's just crazy." "And just makes me so angry because this is like Richard Gilmore could be a very
• 30:58
  parallel case to this." "Yeah." "He spent all of this time in prison and maybe now he decides that
• 31:08
  what he doesn't want to do is leave witnesses." "Yeah."
• 31:12
  Following his execution, the Walla Walla County coroner's office was scheduled to perform
• 31:24
  an autopsy on Cal, Coburn Brown, who was 52 years old at the time of his execution.
• 31:33
  Portland-based anti-death penalty attorney Jeff Ellis, who was a member of Brown's own defense team,
• 31:40
  said, "There are many reasons to conclude that the one drug protocol lessons the risk of needless
• 31:47
  pain and suffering." However, he said it obscures the basic issue of whether the state should be
• 31:57
  in the business of killing. "As long as we have a death penalty, we must take measures to avoid
• 32:05
  the needless inflection of pain on the person who is being killed." However, killing a human being
• 32:13
  is never humane when we could instead lock him up forever. "You gotta keep him fucking locked up,
• 32:23
  though." "Yeah." "No, I think I've expressed this in previous discussions on the show, and I know
• 32:35
  I've mentioned it already at some point in the discussion about this case. Normally, I would not
• 32:42
  consider myself a supporter of the death penalty, but I'll be honest, this is one autopsy that I don't
• 32:52
  care if it shows the subject suffered." Not one bit. "No, not even a little."
• 33:02
  "The tippy top of my pinky nail just doesn't care." "No."
• 33:15
  I mean, it's a tough thing for me because I can't read the quote. However, killing a human being
• 33:25
  is never humane when we could instead lock him up forever. "Yeah."
• 33:31
  And there's a part of me that wants to agree with that sentiment until I remember
• 33:41
  that Holly doesn't ever have the chance to do anything. "No." "Ever." "Not even eat."
• 33:53
  "Nothing." "Like, this bitch got his last meal." "Yeah."
• 33:58
  I know her family was very deeply upset that he wasn't put to death sooner.
• 34:05
  "Well, I mean, they couldn't know either that the one drug thing would pop up. Like, he got his
• 34:11
  stay in execution that way. "Right." "Yeah." "They don't know for how long."
• 34:16
  "Yeah." "No, I mean, that's really valid. I think for them, that was a very upsetting time.
• 34:22
  I do know that I've read about studies that show that whether you're a victim or a survivor of
• 34:33
  the victim, studies have shown that oftentimes we think that capital punishment will give us relief.
• 34:43
  It will give us a sense of peace, but they find that oftentimes it does not.
• 34:49
  So that's a hard thing to grapple with, to think that you will be able to find some peace and
• 34:59
  ultimately, Holly is no longer with her family. And that's something that we just, we can't write that.
• 35:09
  So as complicated and I mean, just there's no other way to put it ethically complex as
• 35:18
  issues surrounding this case are. I feel like it's time for us to get to something
• 35:28
  that we enjoy and that I don't know. I'm hopeful that maybe there's something,
• 35:33
  there's something good in a message that, you know, is going to come through in the cards and
• 35:40
  that'll be for Holly. Yeah. We got this. Terror. Terror? Yeah. Terror?
• 35:48
  All right. Should we do some terror? Yeah. Playing with fire over there.
• 35:56
  I know. Well, I really wanted to make sure that they could see in the Patreon Terror video. You
• 36:04
  guys, watch this. She's some practicing her shuffling. That was pretty good, right? That's respectable.
• 36:12
  I'm probably the bridge. Yeah. I don't know how to do that. So nobody's going to be hiring me
• 36:18
  at like a casino or anything, but like this is passable. Okay. Good job.
• 36:25
  Hasey, I think we should both pick a card this time. We're going to do two cards. Yeah.
• 36:29
  And a two-rollmist. I is promised. Ladies first. Oh my gosh. We just got this card the other day. Stop it.
• 36:42
  Actually, you made a real of it, didn't you? I just posted a picture of it. Oh wait, no, I think you're
• 36:49
  real. I did a real with the fire and stuff. Who knows? Fire? Yeah. Oh man, we were predicting the future
• 36:56
  y'all. We even we drew it in reverse the other day. That is so fun. In our interview with Jeremy.
• 37:04
  Yeah. From Age of Radio. She's like, wait, who, which day was that? Which day was that? Yeah.
• 37:09
  Okay. I'm going to draw one. Oh, this is so precious looking.
• 37:16
  Okay. I'm going to flip it so you can see it. Can you, can you, Vanna, why? Because my arms are two
• 37:21
  T-rexie. Oh my gosh. Is that like a freaking
• 37:24
  starlight? Favorite or something? I don't know what that little guy is. It's a little like weasel dude
• 37:29
  stealing some eggs. It looks it does look like kind of a fox. I'm not sure if it's a weasel or
• 37:35
  Oh, I guess so. I didn't say the card that I drew. I'm sorry. It's a seven of ones in reverse and I drew
• 37:41
  and she drew the seven of sorts in reverse. Interesting. We both got seven cards. Interesting. Okay.
• 37:50
  I'm looking up to see what our little critter is. Yeah. Oh, this sound's darling. He's an Olympic
• 37:58
  short tailed weasel. Oh, it's a weasel. I said a weasel. He's cute. Oh my goodness. It is awfully cute.
• 38:08
  And there's a really I won't read the interpretation because I feel like they're not as beneficial from
• 38:14
  the P&W guidebook but yeah I'll get to it on the others. So I'm going to read Cassie's first.
• 38:22
  It'll sound familiar if you were on the live. It's a mountain goat on the line. Okay. So seven of ones
• 38:34
  in the reverse are keywords are courage fighting for what you believe in and facing challenges.
• 38:41
  Interesting. Okay. The reversed seven of ones signifies a time of confusion. You can't decide
• 38:51
  how to handle a challenge or which direction to take to accomplish your objective.
• 38:56
  Lack of clarity may sap your willpower and make you feel like giving up. Wow. We've got a real
• 39:03
  we got a dance and candle over here. Yeah. Yeah. In a reading about money, competitors or unexpected
• 39:11
  expenses may cut into your financial resources. You may need to set firm guidelines for spending or
• 39:19
  seek assistance from someone else. In a reading about work, the seven reversed cautions you to avoid
• 39:26
  problematic people and watch your back. Don't get into arguments with co-workers, bosses or clients
• 39:33
  now. Choose your battles carefully. And for love, this card indicates giving up on a relationship.
• 39:41
  You feel worn down by problems and don't know how to settle your differences. Counseling could help
• 39:48
  you gain clarity. Was that the one that was like the don't give up card? It is. It's kind of interesting
• 39:58
  because it's like there was a lot of confusion and stuff about the or delays in the what I'm trying
• 40:05
  to say. The death penalty. Yes. The state like don't give up. Yeah. He's still going to get it.
• 40:12
  That is ultimately where my head went to. Interesting. So our seven of swords, keywords are uncertainty,
• 40:21
  illusion, impetuousness, stealth, cunning and strategy. He was a weasel. I don't know how cunning he was.
• 40:33
  Yeah. When the seven appears reversed, it can mean either you're behaving impetuously or that
• 40:41
  you're overly cautious and afraid to act. It can also represent coming clean about a mistake
• 40:47
  and trying to make restitution. Oh, he definitely came real clean real quick. Yeah. Wow.
• 40:55
  And nothing about his statement rang as particularly genuine to me, but I think for a lot of people who
• 41:07
  don't have normal people feelings, he probably thought that's what Holly's family wanted to hear
• 41:15
  at the time of his execution. That or like coming clean about it. He was like, it's almost like he
• 41:22
  should have saved that as his like bargaining chip. Yeah. But he just like spilled it out right away.
• 41:27
  I don't know if he's expecting like, oh, honesty is going to save you a little bit here.
• 41:34
  Sometimes this card shows you experimenting with different plans and getting various points of view.
• 41:40
  Be focused and thorough in planning your strategy as Barbara Moore writes in the gilded tarot
• 41:52
  companion. Be on guard or one of those swords left behind will find its way into his back.
• 42:02
  Oh, vengeance. She is a tricky mistress. It is kind of interesting too because he was complaining about,
• 42:16
  you know, being put to death and he didn't think he deserved it. Yeah. Yeah. But then it's like,
• 42:22
  "Ha ha, you were put to death anyway." But then he was the last one. It's just like, it's kind of poetic
• 42:31
  justice, I feel like. Yeah. It's like, it is. It's very strange to like put your finger on what the
• 42:39
  right words are. In a reading about money, be careful of get rich quick schemes.
• 42:47
  Like stealing money from people. Yeah, maybe gambling or dubious endeavors. Very dubious, very
• 42:56
  aggravated mayhem. Yeah. Yeah. This is interesting. Sometimes it suggests you may have gained through
• 43:06
  or are considering underhanded means. Yeah. If the reading is about your job, this card can warn
• 43:16
  of dishonesty or deception in your workplace. Perhaps you'll need to separate yourself from a situation.
• 43:23
  Stay open-minded and flexible so that you can respond to changes quickly. It can also mean
• 43:30
  taking advantage of someone else. Yeah. In a reading about love, the reverse seven can mean
• 43:43
  apologizing for a mistake or injury. Perhaps you've betrayed, hurt, or manipulated someone.
• 43:51
  However, this card can also show you assisting a partner through a challenge or warning him or
• 43:57
  her against a risky course of action. And there is an extra excerpt.
• 44:10
  Tragedy should be utilized as a source of strength. No matter what source of difficulties,
• 44:17
  how painful experiences, if we lose our hope, that's our real disaster.
• 44:24
  Cassie, I feel like that was Holly. You're going to shit yourself. Why? That quote is from
• 44:37
  his holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama. Oh, seven and seven. Interesting.
• 44:46
  That was Holly for sure. Yeah. Remember at the end, you're like, maybe we'll get a reading for Holly.
• 44:54
  And I was like, waiting for it. And I was like, I don't know. I don't feel it. I was even at,
• 44:59
  for whatever reason, I was eyeballing this card and I kind of separated it. Do you think I should pull
• 45:04
  it? Okay. So I don't know why I was feeling it needed to pull it. Pull it. But we're, we just do what we
• 45:12
  want around here. So yeah, that's true. Okay. It's the King of Pentacles. King of Pentacles.
• 45:18
  This big like, oh, that's such a pretty card. I really, really, I love this deck. This is so, so much.
• 45:28
  Can't want to look up what kind of animal it is. It's an Olympic elk. Oh, it's a limbic. Yes. Yeah.
• 45:36
  So King of Pentacles, our keywords are security, material success, pragmatism, stability,
• 45:45
  strength, and worldly power. And this was upright. Yeah. Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. I just read the,
• 45:54
  sorry, we took like a pause, but I read this whole thing and it was kind of interesting.
• 45:59
  Okay. To read this. I want you to read yours because it's not making sense for me.
• 46:04
  Okay. So this is the King march through his domain, treading lightly despite his bulk.
• 46:10
  Was this, was he a bulky guy? He was a very large man. Interesting. Okay. I think that ended up not
• 46:18
  making the cut in my notes, but he was quite large. Okay. Is my understanding. He walked slowly
• 46:27
  that his subjects might better appreciate his flawless coat, his regal posture. Just picturing him
• 46:35
  like walking around the airport. It's like, oh, I'm an architect. Mm-hmm. He carried his pride, his glory,
• 46:44
  his ossified crown. I said that with a list. Wow. He's ossified. Awesome. You know, you didn't. You said
• 46:50
  it. Find the first time. He lied. Yeah. ossified crown. He had devoted his life to reaching,
• 46:56
  reaching this standing and he was comfortable in his defense of his territory. Everyone knew what was
• 47:03
  his and none would try to take it. He understood this world well and he knew how to shape his role
• 47:10
  to take advantage of it. How quickly it would all come crashing down when the plates shifted beneath
• 47:17
  his hooves. Oh boy. Right. Yeah. It's like a, like a sign of vengeance. Yeah. Wow. It's almost like he,
• 47:30
  he thought he could either get away with it or just like do it in a way to where he wouldn't
• 47:37
  get put to death. Like I feel like his, I think that was because after skipping parole, like it seemed
• 47:43
  like he did these things very quick and he did it to people very, it was like I'm almost like I know
• 47:49
  I'm going to get caught. Like I want to get these things done. That sounds really bad. That's,
• 47:55
  but it's a very good point. And I'm just looking at some pictures just to get an idea of size.
• 48:01
  He's not a huge dude. That's not huge. He's not like, oh gosh, the last case that I covered from
• 48:09
  out of Salem. Yeah. William Scott Smith. He's not quite that large, but he's like he thought he was.
• 48:17
  Yeah. And of course, you know, compared to a relatively young and petite woman like Holly,
• 48:24
  I'm sure he felt it. Well, interesting. Y'all got y'all all on. Y'all got three cards. Yeah.
• 48:35
  We ready. I think we're ready. We're ready. We're supposed to stare at them like. Yeah.
• 48:44
  How do we get two sevens in the 14 and then yeah, it's crazy. It's weird. I'm a witch.
• 48:52
  because he's a witch. (chuckles)
• 48:57
  - Have a creepy ass day. - Have a creepy ass day.
• 48:59
  See you next Tuesday. - See you next Tuesday.
• 49:01
  - Unless you're the last person
• 49:04
  put to death in Washington.
• 49:06
  - Yeah, and then you won't see us ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.
• 49:10
  - Ever, ever, ever. (laughs)
• 49:12
  - Ever again. - You never, ever, ever, ever.
• 49:15
  - Bye. - Bye.
• 49:17
  (laughs)
• 49:19
  So, for all of you that are listening,
• 49:21
  if you have any true crime or paranormal stories
• 49:24
  that you want us to share,
• 49:26
  maybe with a whole Pacific Northwest.
• 49:28
  - Yes, we would love to read them on the pod.
• 49:31
  - Yes, we will read them out loud,
• 49:34
  (laughs)
• 49:35
  not just in our heads.
• 49:37
  - Yes.
• 49:37
  - They don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest,
• 49:41
  if you would like to share,
• 49:43
  email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com.
• 49:49
  It's all spelled out, no special characters.
• 49:52
  Super duper easy peasy.
• 49:55
  - Follow us on Instagram and Facebook.
• 49:58
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• 50:02
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• 50:05
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• 50:08
  you're listening to and check out our stories
• 50:10
  on social media because our meme game is hot.
• 50:14
  (laughs)
• 50:15
  - Agreed.
• 50:16
  - And if you agree, like Caitlyn,
• 50:18
  you can also find us on Patreon and support the show. pnwhauntsandhomicides.com
• 50:22
  - Bitchin.
• 50:23
  (laughs)
• 50:25
  (upbeat music)
• 50:28
  (upbeat music)
• 50:30
  (upbeat music)
• 50:58
  - Based upon.
• 51:00
  - Based upon.
• 51:01
  - Based upon?
• 51:02
  - Yeah.
• 51:03
  (laughs)
• 51:05
  - Basting a cinne bomb.
• 51:07
  (laughs)
• 51:10
  - How do you base the cinne bomb?
• 51:14
  Oh, you just take the goo.
• 51:16
  The cinnamens stuffing, you just keep spraying more on top.
• 51:18
  Just like a turkey.
• 51:19
  - We should open a turquoise.
• 51:20
  - Just like a turquoise called based upon.
• 51:23
  - Oh, I love that for us.
• 51:26
  - Oh my gosh.
• 51:28
  - Based upon.
• 51:30
  (laughs)
• 51:31
  - Oh my God.