Latest / Stories That Live In Us / Delaware: Courage to Save the Words That Built America (with Anna Crowley Redding) | Episode 118

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Delaware: Courage to Save the Words That Built America (with Anna Crowley Redding) | Episode 118 · Stories That Live In Us

0:00
Anna Crowley Redding: That you can be a regular person.
0:02
Anna Crowley Redding: And maybe what you do or who you are is in societal terms insignificant.
0:07
Anna Crowley Redding: And yet, an opportunity can arrive in your lab to do something courageous and you can come through in a way that makes it a real difference.
0:18
Crista Cowan: Stories That Live In Us is a podcast that inspires you to form deep connections with your family, past, present, and future.
0:25
Crista Cowan: I'm Crista Cowan, known online as The Barefoot Genealogist.
0:29
Crista Cowan: Counting down to the upcoming celebration of America's 250th birthday, you'll meet families from each state whose stories are woven into the very fabric of America.
0:40
Crista Cowan: Tales of immigration, migration, courage, and community that remind us that when we tell our stories, we strengthen the bonds that connect us.
0:49
Crista Cowan: So join me for season two as we discover from Sea to Shining Sea the stories that live in us.
0:56
Crista Cowan: When we first started planning season two and decided to tell a story from each of the 50 states in reverse order of when they became a state, if you had asked me what state number one was, I probably couldn't have told you.
1:10
Crista Cowan: But it's Delaware.
1:12
Crista Cowan: In fact, their state motto is the first state.
1:15
Crista Cowan: So maybe that should have been a little bit of a clue.
1:18
Crista Cowan: But we've made it to the state of Delaware.
1:21
Crista Cowan: And here's the interesting thing about Delaware, which is that it is right near Washington, D.C.
1:27
Crista Cowan: And it's so interesting when you look at the states around our nation's capital, how many people from Virginia and Maryland and Delaware work in Washington, D.C.
1:39
Crista Cowan: Well, our story today is about a man who worked in the city and yet he was from Delaware.
1:48
Crista Cowan: My guest today is an author, and she is an author of children's books, which I find delightful.
1:56
Crista Cowan: But even more delightful is her subject matter.
2:00
Crista Cowan: I'm so excited for you to hear my conversation with Anna Crowley Reading as she shares about an unlikely hero from the state of Delaware.
2:10
Crista Cowan: Well, Anna, I'm so excited to have you here.
2:12
Crista Cowan: I would love to just have you start by sharing a little bit about you, like where you grew up and what your family was like and what that experience was for you.
2:22
Anna Crowley Redding: Well, I kind of was all over the place.
2:24
Anna Crowley Redding: I was born in upstate South Carolina, and my mom and dad divorced when I was quite young.
2:32
Anna Crowley Redding: So my mom and stepdad lived in both Savannah and Bermuda.
2:36
Anna Crowley Redding: So it was kind of triangulating between Spartanburg, Savannah, and Bermuda, which was kind of interesting because at that point, you know, in the 80s in South Carolina, to travel on a regular basis to a community that didn't have the social issues that we had in this in the South was really mind-opening.
2:59
Anna Crowley Redding: And I think Bermuda is so historic in a different way than the South that it kind of started to feed into this interest in me in understanding um cultures that I wasn't born into and how do they work and how does that function and what events led to this and that and how they think.
3:19
Anna Crowley Redding: And so you kind of see for me early on um this sort of dive into history.
3:25
Anna Crowley Redding: And the other thing was books.
3:27
Anna Crowley Redding: And so when I go to talk to um schools about books and their importance, because you my situation growing up was very instable.
3:37
Anna Crowley Redding: And so I found an enormous amount of stability in books, in those stories.
3:43
Crista Cowan: Yeah, I I love that.
3:45
Crista Cowan: I think that's um children who can escape into books, I think grow up to be very well-adjusted adults because they have such that broad exposure.
3:56
Crista Cowan: But the fact that you had that exposure to different cultures and experiences in your real life, in addition to the books, is a really unique thing.
4:03
Crista Cowan: Did your family have any connection to Bermuda or was that just a favorite spot?
4:09
Anna Crowley Redding: No, my stepfather um was in the hospitality business.
4:12
Anna Crowley Redding: So he ran a hotel there.
4:13
Anna Crowley Redding: So he and my mom lived there full time.
4:16
Anna Crowley Redding: So we were kind of the lucky beneficiaries of that, and just it's very safe.
4:22
Anna Crowley Redding: So there was a lot of freedom.
4:23
Anna Crowley Redding: So we're like running all over the island um with a lot of freedom.
4:27
Anna Crowley Redding: So it was really good for us in terms of growing independence.
4:30
Anna Crowley Redding: I love that.
4:32
Crista Cowan: So tell me about like so you've got these divorced parents.
4:35
Crista Cowan: Did you have um relationships with grandparents on either side of your family?
4:40
Crista Cowan: I did.
4:41
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, on my dad's side, we were very like it, it's very Irish.
4:46
Anna Crowley Redding: So, like kind of centers around the matriarch of the family, my grandmother.
4:50
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, so it was, you know, dinner at her house every Sunday with your best manners and that kind of thing.
4:56
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, with my mom's mom, um, my mom's father died before I was born.
5:03
Anna Crowley Redding: So my mom's mom uh lived in Delaware.
5:06
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, so she would write letters and stuff.
5:09
Anna Crowley Redding: So, you know, it's kind of difficult to remember the days before um email and the internet, but she would send letters and that kind of thing.
5:17
Anna Crowley Redding: So she definitely would stay in touch.
5:20
Crista Cowan: Oh, I love that.
5:20
Crista Cowan: Yeah, we moved away from my grandparents when I was about 13, and letters was a thing.
5:26
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, and I often think how much my grandfather would have loved the whole concept of FaceTime, that he could have just picked up the phone at any time and talked to us face to face without long distance charges or I truly, because that going back and forth between Bermuda and South Carolina, I can remember my father just absolutely losing his mind when I would call my friends in Bermuda and it would be like three, four, five hundred dollars a month, and he was just like mind-blown like, what are you gonna do to pay this bill?
5:56
Anna Crowley Redding: Right.
5:56
Anna Crowley Redding: You know, nothing.
6:00
Crista Cowan: Yeah.
6:00
Crista Cowan: Yeah.
6:01
Crista Cowan: So you had these relationships with your grandmothers.
6:03
Crista Cowan: Were were anybody in your family storytellers?
6:07
Anna Crowley Redding: So it's interesting because not really, because in the South, uh there, they're storytellers in terms of, you know, you're expected um growing up to be sort of entertaining and be able to hold your own in front of adults and, you know, ask questions and that kind of thing.
6:26
Anna Crowley Redding: In terms of like storytelling, I just remember feeling like there were very clear, unspoken rules about what exactly should be said and what should not.
6:37
Anna Crowley Redding: So what's interesting to me about that is after my mom passed away about seven years ago, I found her high school writing, like her creative writing.
6:50
Anna Crowley Redding: And I found that fascinating because not only was she a talented writer, but our writing voice was similar.
6:57
Anna Crowley Redding: So I even said it to my agent and I was like, oh my gosh, doesn't this sound like something I wrote?
7:02
Anna Crowley Redding: Because it's so funny to me, and I know you probably see this all the time, but in family lines, how these traits come down and how they express themselves.
7:12
Anna Crowley Redding: So I think it probably came from my mom's side.
7:16
Anna Crowley Redding: Um uh, but I I can't be sure, but I think it's definitely in there.
7:22
Anna Crowley Redding: And of course, the Irish, I mean, all they do is talk and tell stories.
7:26
Anna Crowley Redding: So in terms of that longer picture.
7:29
Crista Cowan: Yeah, for sure.
7:30
Crista Cowan: I love that.
7:31
Crista Cowan: So uh so the reading between the reading and the travel and the family backgrounds with different things, like you kind of came into writing naturally, yeah.
7:43
Anna Crowley Redding: It's always been sort of how I think.
7:45
Anna Crowley Redding: Like I think in chunks of text, and I I can't really describe it any other way.
7:50
Anna Crowley Redding: Like I'm always like my mind is off kind of in a in a movie, and I'm always thinking from a very young age about writing and and in writing structure and playing around with words in my head.
8:04
Anna Crowley Redding: So it's it's in there.
8:06
Anna Crowley Redding: I don't think that's how every writer has to, you know, be born with that.
8:09
Anna Crowley Redding: But it's definitely, you know, I can remember keeping diaries and journals, you know, as soon as I could write.
8:16
Anna Crowley Redding: So um, and I think that is, you know, a powerful thing, especially when you're growing up in a family where there's all this sort of turbulence to be able to write and clear out what your own narrative is, what your own experience is.
8:30
Crista Cowan: Yeah.
8:30
Crista Cowan: Oh, that's so beautifully said.
8:31
Crista Cowan: So it's so interesting to me because I've known quite a few writers who weren't as good at expressing themselves verbally.
8:38
Crista Cowan: And then there are people who are so eloquent who cannot write to save their lives.
8:42
Crista Cowan: And I'm hearing just in my few minutes with you that you have this really beautiful blend of both of those things, which is a gift, I think.
8:50
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, I appreciate that.
8:52
Anna Crowley Redding: I it's a big part of um, you know, one of the things that I want to personally do and part of writing these stories for young audiences is to encourage them to develop these skills within themselves because I think they can be so powerful in terms of finding your own way, finding confidence and kind of determining who you are and who you want to be.
9:14
Crista Cowan: Yeah, yeah, well said.
9:15
Crista Cowan: Well, so we are at the end of season two of this podcast.
9:21
Crista Cowan: We have been marching our way through the 50 states in honor of America 250, and we have come to the very first state, the state of Delaware.
9:30
Crista Cowan: And it sounds like you have a little bit of a family connection there with your grandmother.
9:35
Crista Cowan: Um, but tell me a little bit about how this particular story first came to your attention.
9:42
Anna Crowley Redding: So I was actually doing research for another book for a story about a little girl lighthouse keeper who did her work in Connecticut.
9:50
Anna Crowley Redding: And in Maine, there's a lighthouse museum here.
9:53
Anna Crowley Redding: And I thought I'm gonna go and learn what I can about the technical aspect, you know, how the lens worked, how what type of oil lamp would have been in that lighthouse, those kinds of questions.
10:05
Anna Crowley Redding: And then in there, I see this little um snippet about Stephen Pleasanton, how he was in charge of the lighthouses.
10:14
Anna Crowley Redding: The reason that he was given that post is because he saved the Declaration of Independence and all of our family documents from British torches.
10:23
Anna Crowley Redding: And I was like, what is this like side note of this museum?
10:29
Anna Crowley Redding: I've never heard of this man.
10:31
Anna Crowley Redding: I never knew those documents were ever in danger.
10:34
Anna Crowley Redding: And every American should know the story.
10:37
Crista Cowan: Yeah, it's so funny because sometimes things like that do just get dropped in footnotes or in margins.
10:43
Crista Cowan: As a genealogist, I see that often.
10:45
Crista Cowan: And you're like, wait a second, there is a whole story here in those six words or those two sentences that I have to unpack.
10:53
Crista Cowan: And so here's what I'd love to have you do.
10:56
Crista Cowan: I would love to have you tell us the story of Stephen Pleasanton, and then let's kind of go back and kind of unpack how you got there.
11:04
Crista Cowan: So let's start with just how you would tell his story.
11:07
Anna Crowley Redding: So Stephen Pleasanton um was a clerk at what was then the State Department in Washington in 1814.
11:15
Anna Crowley Redding: So America's at war again with the War of 1812, and the British are coming.
11:20
Anna Crowley Redding: And Washington is a young capital, it's swampy, it's not that awesome yet.
11:25
Anna Crowley Redding: I mean, their ideas of what it can be are great and beautiful, um, but it is nowhere even close.
11:32
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, Philadelphia was sort of mainly the governmental hub, uh, for lack of a better term.
11:38
Anna Crowley Redding: And so, but he's there in Washington and his job is paper to keep track of it, to stamp it, to write letters, to talk about what's going on, to ask for this, to ask for that.
11:47
Anna Crowley Redding: I mean, it was not exciting.
11:49
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, anyway, rumors were going around that the British were coming.
11:55
Anna Crowley Redding: And so his boss, Secretary James Monroe, went um galloping away to go and spy to see is it true?
12:04
Anna Crowley Redding: Is there a British encampment ready to invade Washington?
12:08
Anna Crowley Redding: And he gets there and is shocked to see yes, it is true.
12:11
Anna Crowley Redding: So he sends a note, he scribbles one off to the president, one off to the clerk to remove the records.
12:20
Anna Crowley Redding: The British are coming and in the postscript, the last three words, remove the records.
12:24
Anna Crowley Redding: And so a galloping soldier comes with this message for Stephen Pleasanton and it's three floors of documents.
12:32
Anna Crowley Redding: And this is like not like a library.
12:34
Anna Crowley Redding: I mean, there's scrolls, it's parchment, it's paper, it's kind of a mess.
12:39
Anna Crowley Redding: And he's got to figure out not only which documents to take, how many can he take, but what is he gonna pack them in and how is he going to get them out of the city?
12:48
Anna Crowley Redding: And that kind of starts this um story, this race against time, where he has to figure out having bags made, then stuffing them, rolling things into scrolls, stuffing them into these bags, commandeering wagons to get them out of the city.
13:05
Anna Crowley Redding: And at the time there is utter panic because rumors are spreading and people are starting to flee with their belongings.
13:12
Anna Crowley Redding: And so it is quite difficult to convince people to help remove these documents.
13:18
Anna Crowley Redding: But everyday Americans came to the rescue, farmers, um, people who lived in the city and offered their wagons and helped um in the effort to get these documents to safety.
13:30
Crista Cowan: That's so crazy.
13:32
Crista Cowan: And and so then, specifically, as we talk about our founding documents, um, what was the circumstances around the saving of those?
13:43
Anna Crowley Redding: So he is collecting all the documents and does one final check to make sure he's got them all and then turns around and the declaration of independence is hanging on the wall.
13:53
Anna Crowley Redding: And so he's like, oh my gosh, and has to, you know, then um follow the wagons himself to catch up to get it to safety.
14:02
Anna Crowley Redding: And the first place they take it to is a mill um just over the chain bridge.
14:07
Anna Crowley Redding: And so they're galloping, galloping, galloping, and he looks over and realizes, oh no, we're so close to this munitions factory.
14:15
Anna Crowley Redding: And if the British find the munitions factory, they are going to find um these documents.
14:21
Anna Crowley Redding: And so he realizes after they've been deposited and the wagons have departed, that he's got to move them again.
14:27
Anna Crowley Redding: And so he goes on his horse from farm to farm to farm, begging people to help him move them once again.
14:33
Anna Crowley Redding: So this time they move them um all the way um out of the city and away from harm and the documents survive.
14:42
Anna Crowley Redding: And the stakes here are this that when he goes back to Washington, he sees that in fact his uh State Department building was burned to the ground.
14:51
Anna Crowley Redding: So you can imagine if the British had torched that building with the documents inside, one of two things happened.
14:57
Anna Crowley Redding: Either they turned to ash and we don't have them, or they're hanging in the British Museum.
15:03
Anna Crowley Redding: So it it really was, you know, an amazing thing that he did.
15:09
Crista Cowan: Yeah, absolutely.
15:10
Crista Cowan: And then, like, how was this story ever brought to light?
15:14
Crista Cowan: Right?
15:15
Crista Cowan: Like he's doing this work and the community is helping.
15:18
Crista Cowan: It was not him in a solitary, you know, ride across the river, right?
15:23
Crista Cowan: But but this isn't a really well-known story, and it probably wasn't really well known even at the time.
15:29
Anna Crowley Redding: So he was um called to Congress to explain um in sworn testimony exactly what happened.
15:37
Anna Crowley Redding: So that's one of the neat things about it is there's a lot of eyewitness testimony from him and from others.
15:44
Anna Crowley Redding: And you know, one of the things that happened while he was packing was his um, the State Department shared offices with the Secretary of War.
15:52
Anna Crowley Redding: And the Secretary of War confronted him and was sort of a difficult person anyway.
15:57
Anna Crowley Redding: It was like, what are you doing?
15:59
Anna Crowley Redding: And and Stephen Pleasanton explains what he's doing.
16:02
Anna Crowley Redding: And the Secretary of War is basically like, you know, how numb are you?
16:06
Anna Crowley Redding: They're not coming here.
16:07
Anna Crowley Redding: They would go to Philadelphia.
16:08
Anna Crowley Redding: And Stephen Pleasanton is basically just politely says, I'm I'm sorry, we don't agree, and goes about his work.
16:16
Anna Crowley Redding: And I find that a really sort of neat thing to share with young people because you can imagine being challenged like that.
16:23
Anna Crowley Redding: Like you believe that for our young country, the very words that made us who we are are at risk.
16:30
Anna Crowley Redding: Now you are confronting the most powerful military man in the country who says basically you're an idiot.
16:36
Anna Crowley Redding: And you have this wherewithal to calmly say to him, I don't agree, and to keep doing what you're doing.
16:43
Anna Crowley Redding: I mean, I find that profound.
16:46
Crista Cowan: It's such a powerful story, but what was it about this story that made you in particular um like what I mean?
16:54
Crista Cowan: I've got your book, right?
16:55
Crista Cowan: Like I think, like so, darling, rescuing the declaration of independence, how we almost lost the words that built America.
17:02
Crista Cowan: And I think that that subtitle is so important.
17:04
Crista Cowan: You mentioned that, like, why that's important for children.
17:09
Anna Crowley Redding: I think because you know, today we have digital everything.
17:14
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, it's important to understand now more than ever what's real and what's not real.
17:21
Anna Crowley Redding: And when you stand before that document yourself in Washington and think about the people who risk their lives to live in a way to break free, to come up with these concepts, to put them to paper, to fight for them, to defend them, then move them.
17:40
Anna Crowley Redding: Like there is so much physical sacrifice over those words on that page and what do they actually mean and what do they mean to me personally?
17:50
Anna Crowley Redding: Like they were written for you personally, they were written for me personally.
17:55
Anna Crowley Redding: I think that's really powerful.
17:58
Anna Crowley Redding: And so understanding that for these documents, it it's not just ink on the on the page, it means something, and of course, it is the basis of our law.
18:10
Anna Crowley Redding: And we see so much of that now in the courts, um, which is fascinating.
18:15
Anna Crowley Redding: But to see where it started, I think is so important.
18:18
Anna Crowley Redding: And the other thing that I think is so poignant about the story is this that you can be a regular person, and maybe what you do or who you are is in societal terms insignificant, and yet an opportunity can arrive in your lab to do something courageous and you can come through in a way that makes a real difference.
18:40
Anna Crowley Redding: If Stephen Pleasanton could have said, you know what?
18:43
Anna Crowley Redding: I've got a family, I've got to get them out of town.
18:46
Anna Crowley Redding: And he didn't.
18:47
Anna Crowley Redding: He said, These words are so important for every American here, for every American in the future, and I'm do what I can to save them.
18:55
Anna Crowley Redding: I think that's powerful.
18:57
Crista Cowan: Yeah, that I think that's absolutely powerful.
18:59
Crista Cowan: It's so interesting because we can look to the past for stories of people who've done these incredible things and made these sacrifices, but to bring that into the modern world and to let children understand that they have moments in their lives when they can make those choices too.
19:13
Crista Cowan: I think that's just such a gift that you have offered to the world through sharing Stephen's story.
19:19
Crista Cowan: I want to talk a little bit about your story.
19:21
Crista Cowan: Um, so you started as um an Emmy Award-winning investigative television reporter.
19:27
Crista Cowan: How do you go from that to deciding that this is what you want to put out into the world as your gift?
19:35
Anna Crowley Redding: I have always wanted to write kids' books, even when I was 10 years old, always.
19:40
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, you know, in television news, it's very difficult uh even now to do that job and have a family because of the nature of it.
19:50
Anna Crowley Redding: You know, you are basically on call 24-7.
19:53
Anna Crowley Redding: If a plane crashes, you gotta go.
19:55
Anna Crowley Redding: And I just did not have the support system that would allow for um someone to step in and care for my kids.
20:04
Anna Crowley Redding: And so uh anyway, I left TV News and I was um, you know, I had my son Crowley, I had my son Quinn, and I took them one day to Storytime at the library.
20:18
Anna Crowley Redding: And on the way back, I was saying to Crowley, you know what, Crowley, you can do anything you want to.
20:23
Anna Crowley Redding: If you have a dream, you can follow it.
20:25
Anna Crowley Redding: You know, I'll, you know, one of those kind of rah-rah mom kid speeches.
20:30
Anna Crowley Redding: And this little voice in me was like, Well, you haven't even followed your own dream.
20:35
Anna Crowley Redding: And I heard it, I was like noted, and I was like, I'm gonna go after it.
20:41
Anna Crowley Redding: Like tomorrow.
20:42
Anna Crowley Redding: I'm gonna lock in, I'm gonna learn what needs to be learned to sort of repurpose my journalism skills for this.
20:50
Anna Crowley Redding: And so that really kind of started me down the road of trying to figure this out.
20:56
Anna Crowley Redding: And it was a learning curve.
20:58
Anna Crowley Redding: I think that, you know, it's like um, you know, a cook that um switches the type of food they're cooking from French food to Japanese.
21:09
Anna Crowley Redding: I mean, you have it's the same idea, but the tools, the ingredients are different.
21:15
Anna Crowley Redding: And so it was a learning process.
21:17
Anna Crowley Redding: But I I really love it.
21:20
Anna Crowley Redding: And I think that there is a thread running through both types, which is kind of a devotion to the truth and to um telling stories that can inspire people.
21:32
Crista Cowan: Yeah.
21:32
Crista Cowan: But what a but what a beautiful moment for you to recognize that in order to be integrated in integrity with yourself as you were trying to teach your children something, that you needed to step into that as well.
21:43
Crista Cowan: I think that's one of the gifts of children is that they force us to face ourselves sometimes.
21:49
Anna Crowley Redding: They do.
21:49
Anna Crowley Redding: They really wake you up in a million different ways.
21:52
Anna Crowley Redding: And so it was it's a gift.
21:54
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, and I love sharing the publication of these folks with them.
21:58
Crista Cowan: Yeah, absolutely.
21:59
Crista Cowan: Well, in your blog, you mentioned that when you sat down to write, like there were some challenges in your life and some grief that you were dealing with and some things.
22:08
Crista Cowan: Like, how did that play into this whole part of your journey?
22:12
Anna Crowley Redding: I think that, you know, when you're sitting before a blank page, and I it could be anybody, any job they're doing, but when you're experiencing grief and then, okay, it's time to return now to work, and you sit down to do that, it is amazing the flood of emotion that calms out of you.
22:31
Anna Crowley Redding: And in this particular case, my um infant nephew had uh died from prematurity and just three days old, uh, Jack was his name.
22:42
Anna Crowley Redding: And it just um rocked my world.
22:47
Anna Crowley Redding: I think it was so poignant to be a part of that.
22:51
Anna Crowley Redding: I was there with him and with my brother and sister-in-law to support them, to watch another mom go through that.
22:58
Anna Crowley Redding: It was like multiple levels of um experiencing that grief and sadness.
23:05
Anna Crowley Redding: And yet at the same time, in the little bits that I had with Jack over the three days of his life, um, one of the things that I did in the NICU was to read to him.
23:16
Anna Crowley Redding: And I um it was such a it was so dear.
23:20
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, you know, I may not get your childhood with you as your auntie, but I can read um goodnight moon to you.
23:29
Anna Crowley Redding: And I think that for me was really deeply powerful and comforting.
23:35
Anna Crowley Redding: And it was this point of connection.
23:38
Anna Crowley Redding: And then I think when you look at a child that precious and that young who passes away who is not going to have the chance to follow their dreams, it's like I feel especially dedicated to reaching other children and other families.
24:00
Anna Crowley Redding: And part of it is, you know, on his behalf.
24:04
Anna Crowley Redding: And so it was very powerful.
24:06
Anna Crowley Redding: And yet when I opened my computer to write um rescuing the declaration, it was just this blank page.
24:15
Anna Crowley Redding: And I was like, okay, well, we're gonna spend this first 20 minutes crying, and then we'll start again.
24:23
Anna Crowley Redding: And really, kind of Steven's tale of courage kind of teased out in me that fortitude to say, you know what, I'm gonna go for this and I'm gonna find that strength from somewhere and that creativity will come and I just trust that it will, and I'm gonna write the story for those that need it.
24:42
Crista Cowan: Yeah.
24:42
Crista Cowan: Oh gosh, I can't even imagine, you know, like I think so I've grown up with so many family stories, but they're just kind of a part of me and they've always just kind of flowed through me.
24:54
Crista Cowan: But to sit down and to take like a whole cloth story and try to spin it up, um, especially when you're sitting in that kind of grief, that blank page had to have been really intimidating.
25:05
Anna Crowley Redding: It was really intimidating, but I think that what I would say to anybody going through that or any other challenge is that, you know, you only have to get one word on the page.
25:15
Crista Cowan: Yeah.
25:15
Crista Cowan: And that's not blank.
25:17
Anna Crowley Redding: And it's not blank.
25:18
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, you that taking it step by step um really helped.
25:24
Anna Crowley Redding: And and you think about, you know, you go back to just in your own research when you're discovering these stories and you see infant loss and you see widows and widowers, and you know it's there.
25:35
Anna Crowley Redding: And but they got up and went out and made money to feed their family and all of those things.
25:43
Anna Crowley Redding: And you just have to decide that um you you bring those that you lose with you and you you keep going.
25:52
Crista Cowan: Yeah, absolutely.
25:54
Crista Cowan: So at this point, you're you've started writing now, but you didn't even have a you didn't have a literary agent or a uh a book deal yet, but you felt it was important enough to get the story out into the world.
26:06
Anna Crowley Redding: Yeah.
26:06
Anna Crowley Redding: So this is like a wild chain of events.
26:09
Anna Crowley Redding: So I um worked on this book and I had been to a children's book writing conference.
26:15
Anna Crowley Redding: And one of like the perks of going is that you can submit to submit your work to literary agents.
26:21
Anna Crowley Redding: A lot of times they're not open to submission.
26:24
Anna Crowley Redding: And so you want these opportunities so you can get your work um before people who you admire.
26:31
Anna Crowley Redding: And I knew um Amy Joan Piquet, I knew her reputation because let me tell you something.
26:37
Anna Crowley Redding: Picking a literary agent is more important than picking a husband.
26:42
Anna Crowley Redding: I mean, it is a lifelong thing.
26:45
Anna Crowley Redding: No offense.
26:46
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, so I I knew who she was, I knew what her ethics were, her integrity, her creative chops.
26:53
Anna Crowley Redding: She's a writer herself.
26:55
Anna Crowley Redding: Like this was my person.
26:57
Anna Crowley Redding: So I had been to a conference, I had sent her a manuscript and she'd rejected it and said, you know, this is not for me, but I do like your voice.
27:07
Anna Crowley Redding: So do resubmit.
27:08
Anna Crowley Redding: And I thought, oh, okay, that's what you say like when your children put plaid with polka dots.
27:14
Anna Crowley Redding: Oh, you know, yeah, that looks great.
27:17
Anna Crowley Redding: Um and and then I said to my um fellow writers a few months later, I'm like, oh, they were saying, has anyone submitted to Amy Joan Bucat?
27:26
Anna Crowley Redding: I said, I did, and you know, she was nice and whatever.
27:28
Anna Crowley Redding: And and they said, well, we submitted to her too, but she didn't offer to read anything else.
27:34
Anna Crowley Redding: And it was like ding, ding, ding.
27:37
Anna Crowley Redding: And so I um sent her this manuscript.
27:41
Anna Crowley Redding: Normally in this world, it moves so slowly.
27:46
Anna Crowley Redding: I mean, months can go by before you hear anything.
27:49
Anna Crowley Redding: She called me, uh, didn't call me, she emailed me.
27:54
Anna Crowley Redding: I mean, 24 hours had not passed.
27:56
Anna Crowley Redding: And amazingly, I had said, you, here's this book, you know, a tale of courage, you know, our founding documents at at risk, you know, what would you do?
28:07
Anna Crowley Redding: Stephen Pleasanton chooses to save them, blah, blah, blah, blah.
28:10
Anna Crowley Redding: And if you like this, I have five other manuscripts for you to read.
28:13
Anna Crowley Redding: So she emails me and says, I love this.
28:18
Anna Crowley Redding: Send me everything you have.
28:20
Anna Crowley Redding: And I sat down on the stairs and burst into tears because I had, I could have wallpapered the house with the number of rejections that I had.
28:31
Anna Crowley Redding: And now all of a sudden, one of the best literary agents in the country wants to read all of my work.
28:38
Anna Crowley Redding: So I I sat down, I cried.
28:42
Anna Crowley Redding: I was just like, sometimes you know, you just know it's gonna work out.
28:47
Anna Crowley Redding: And I knew that like my life was changing in that moment.
28:51
Anna Crowley Redding: So I got up because I had to get to um the doctor's office because I had like a mammogram um to go to.
29:01
Anna Crowley Redding: And so I get to the mammogram, and um I had asked for a mammogram because after my nephew died, we went to church and I was saying a prayer, and I had this like weird kind of um back of my mind, like not even really conscious, like worry about my left breast.
29:20
Anna Crowley Redding: And I was constantly giving myself a self-exam in the shower, which is maybe not normal to do that every day, but I did.
29:26
Anna Crowley Redding: And there I am lighting a candle, and I just felt this you need to go to the doctor and ask about that.
29:34
Anna Crowley Redding: So I went to the doctor the next day, I cried during the entire appointment because I was a mess.
29:38
Anna Crowley Redding: I was so grief stricken.
29:40
Anna Crowley Redding: And I said, listen, you can refer me to psychiatry.
29:43
Anna Crowley Redding: I'm all for it.
29:43
Anna Crowley Redding: But first I want a mammogram.
29:45
Anna Crowley Redding: So in the meantime, I've gone back to the page.
29:49
Anna Crowley Redding: I've um gotten this manuscript together, I've submitted it.
29:52
Anna Crowley Redding: Now this big agent wants to see it along with everything else I have.
29:56
Anna Crowley Redding: So I'm driving to the appointment and I call some of my critique group friends.
30:01
Anna Crowley Redding: I'm like, listen, I need you all night.
30:04
Anna Crowley Redding: We've got to get these manuscripts ready.
30:06
Anna Crowley Redding: I said they were awesome, they are not.
30:08
Anna Crowley Redding: You've got to help me, and so I can send them all off.
30:12
Anna Crowley Redding: They said, Great, we're all in.
30:15
Anna Crowley Redding: So I get to the doctor, I go for the mammogram, and the tech comes out of the machine and she says, Hey, can you wait just one second?
30:25
Anna Crowley Redding: And I knew I have a real big problem.
30:30
Anna Crowley Redding: And she came back and she said, Okay, um, that will be it for today.
30:35
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, and they are going to call you to come back in a couple of days.
30:40
Anna Crowley Redding: So I knew I later found out she had gone to try to find a radiologist to tell me right then and there.
30:48
Anna Crowley Redding: So I started the process of going for the biopsy, and the biopsy confirmed what everybody already knew, which was I had breast cancer, and I was 39.
30:57
Anna Crowley Redding: I had a kindergartner and a three-year-old.
30:59
Anna Crowley Redding: And I was just like, What am I gonna do?
31:02
Anna Crowley Redding: And I thought I've I've lost my nephew.
31:06
Anna Crowley Redding: Now I've got this, and my dreams are about to come true, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
31:09
Anna Crowley Redding: And finally I said, gosh, it is so boring over here on the pity potty.
31:15
Anna Crowley Redding: Maybe get up and get going and get those manuscripts together.
31:21
Anna Crowley Redding: And so I spent the next few days getting the manuscripts together.
31:26
Anna Crowley Redding: I sent them off to Amy Joan Paquette.
31:29
Anna Crowley Redding: And then I'm driving to Boston for my pre-op appointment for a single mastectomy, and she calls and says, I'd like to offer you representation.
31:39
Anna Crowley Redding: And I really don't remember much more about the conversation.
31:43
Anna Crowley Redding: I think she gave me some compliments about my writing, but I was just like, I don't even know that I said anything.
31:50
Anna Crowley Redding: I should ask her.
31:51
Anna Crowley Redding: I'm sure I was a mess.
31:53
Anna Crowley Redding: And then she said, the only thing is that I have some travel coming up, so I won't be able to work with you on getting things out for like six weeks.
32:02
Anna Crowley Redding: And I said, Oh, well, great.
32:04
Anna Crowley Redding: That works for my schedule too.
32:09
Crista Cowan: That is crazy.
32:10
Crista Cowan: Like the timing of like the highest of highs and the lowest of lows, and having those two things happen simultaneously.
32:18
Anna Crowley Redding: It was unbelievable.
32:19
Anna Crowley Redding: So when I went to Dana Farber, I made them change all of my paperwork to go from writer to agented writer.
32:26
Anna Crowley Redding: Every search and every um, I just want to make sure you corrected my occupation.
32:35
Crista Cowan: Nice.
32:35
Crista Cowan: Oh, that's that is insane.
32:38
Crista Cowan: And yet here you are like trying to put this story of courage out into the world, and you're facing your own trial of courage, right?
32:47
Anna Crowley Redding: It was so it felt um, you know, it's interesting because I felt like the story was with me.
32:53
Anna Crowley Redding: And you look at the actions of other people in history, and it really helps you get your own act together.
33:00
Anna Crowley Redding: You, of course, anybody in the world would have given me a pass, but it's really important that I wasn't willing to give me a pass, that I was willing to keep going and to keep doing what I'm I'm here to do.
33:11
Anna Crowley Redding: So it was a it was a choice I was really proud of.
33:15
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, you know, it's funny because um when I'm talking to my family, to my siblings, you know, one of the things I say about parenting is you know, you don't get to offer them perfect usually unless you get really lucky.
33:31
Anna Crowley Redding: But what you can offer is an instruction manual, and the only way to write it is with your actions.
33:37
Anna Crowley Redding: Like your words are almost immaterial.
33:39
Anna Crowley Redding: And so I thought I just want them to look back one day when they're older and can fully understand what happened.
33:45
Anna Crowley Redding: That if they're facing a time like that, like put your shoes on, go outside, go to work, keep keep going, keep going.
33:54
Crista Cowan: Yeah, that concept of keeping keep moving forward is so, so important.
33:59
Crista Cowan: I think, especially for children to see that modeled is important.
34:04
Anna Crowley Redding: I think it's it too.
34:05
Anna Crowley Redding: And I'm just curious, you know, in your work, if you've seen examples of that when you're kind of going through these genealogical papers, I don't think kids understand how cool like original documents are.
34:18
Anna Crowley Redding: Um and in when I bring them like a cache of primary sources, they get excited.
34:24
Anna Crowley Redding: But have there been things that you found that that stood out to you?
34:29
Crista Cowan: Yeah, all the time.
34:30
Crista Cowan: And I think one of the most basic examples, um, the 1910 US Federal Census, they asked this question that seems like it's like, you know, lines of data that you see.
34:42
Crista Cowan: And some people get so excited to see, oh, like there's great grandma and grandpa, and you know, they were little kids once, and like there's stories in those lines of data.
34:50
Crista Cowan: But there was one question that was asked, and the question was asked of women only.
34:56
Crista Cowan: And it was asked how many children have you birthed and how many children are still living?
35:02
Crista Cowan: Interesting.
35:03
Crista Cowan: And it's just these two little numbers, again, in this like spreadsheet type forms full of data from 1910, and yet those two numbers tell an entire story.
35:15
Crista Cowan: And there are things like that all over family history, but that one always gets me because you know, hearing your story about Jack, like like people have suffered loss always.
35:27
Crista Cowan: And yet what they did in the face of that loss and how they kept moving and how they chose to keep having children or like keep showing up, or not sometimes, right?
35:38
Crista Cowan: Like, and you can see those examples through history.
35:40
Crista Cowan: But yeah, that is just one example of many that we see in some of those original documents.
35:46
Anna Crowley Redding: Well, it's very moving and touching, I think, because you can imagine being asked that too.
35:52
Anna Crowley Redding: Yeah.
35:52
Anna Crowley Redding: Like in the world of um images and sounds that play out in your head, even in answering the question.
36:00
Crista Cowan: Yeah.
36:00
Crista Cowan: Some census taker standing on your doorstep that you don't know, just asking you questions about things that in that case feel super personal.
36:09
Anna Crowley Redding: Yeah, it's really an interesting um tidbit.
36:14
Anna Crowley Redding: We just did a bunch.
36:16
Anna Crowley Redding: I love, first of all, I love Ancestry.com.
36:19
Anna Crowley Redding: I'm on there all the time.
36:21
Anna Crowley Redding: And we um have been looking into our Canadian um ancestors.
36:27
Anna Crowley Redding: And one of the things I love because I was raised, my um grandmother, Jane Crowley, was a very strict, devout Catholic.
36:36
Anna Crowley Redding: And um so I was so delighted to discover that um the first of our ancestors who was born in Kenadu, but came to America on that line.
36:50
Anna Crowley Redding: That she was born out of wedlock.
36:53
Anna Crowley Redding: I was like, I wish I could call my grandmother and be like, guess what I found out.
37:02
Crista Cowan: You know what?
37:03
Crista Cowan: People have always peopled.
37:05
Crista Cowan: That is nothing new.
37:06
Anna Crowley Redding: Yes, nothing new.
37:09
Crista Cowan: I love that.
37:10
Crista Cowan: Well, because the because you're writing these stories for children, um, the words are important, but there's also artwork.
37:18
Crista Cowan: And talk to me about that experience of like, you know, you've spent so much time and so much of yourself into these manuscripts, especially at a time in your life that was so difficult.
37:30
Crista Cowan: What does it feel like, or how do you even decide who to work with to bring those images to life?
37:37
Anna Crowley Redding: So it's interesting.
37:38
Anna Crowley Redding: So in traditional publishing, the author does not decide.
37:42
Anna Crowley Redding: The editor who's in charge of my words and that process, and illustrators have an art director.
37:50
Anna Crowley Redding: And so the art director um picks and they have the cream of the crop to choose from.
37:56
Anna Crowley Redding: And so I knew who Edwin was um because even though he's Australian, he has fallen into illustrating some important um early um picture books about American history.
38:12
Anna Crowley Redding: And so I found that so amusing, but I love his work because it's very like scrolly and seraphy, but it's fun and dynamic.
38:21
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, like even this, like this whole concept.
38:28
Anna Crowley Redding: So it's very exciting when you're writing, you need to be able to see it to bring the moments alive.
38:37
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, but it's important to let go of the process so that the illustrators can bring their vision, their part, their visual storytelling to the page.
38:48
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, I've always been delighted with the work that they've done.
38:53
Anna Crowley Redding: It's always like, wow, um, because their lens is a little bit different.
38:57
Anna Crowley Redding: What they want to highlight is a little bit different.
39:00
Anna Crowley Redding: And it's pretty cool to see what they come up with.
39:03
Crista Cowan: You you mentioned earlier, though, that like while you're well, that you see words almost cinematically in your brain, right?
39:10
Crista Cowan: Like, how hard is it to let go of how you envisioned it to see somebody else's vision come to life?
39:17
Anna Crowley Redding: It's really not.
39:18
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, I know that must sound weird, but it's like when I picture it in my head, it's like a live action movie.
39:23
Anna Crowley Redding: And what they're doing is animating it, really.
39:26
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, I mean, don't get me wrong, what they do is fine art and they deserve to be spoken about that way.
39:33
Anna Crowley Redding: But in terms of how I envision in my head, you know, it's like watching the news versus watching the action movie version of it.
39:42
Anna Crowley Redding: So you just have to let go of it.
39:46
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, I just had an experience with a book that I have coming out this fall where the illustrator added a last page to the book and it's a wordless illustration and it's kind of a a joke at the end of the book.
40:01
Anna Crowley Redding: And I I have never been so charmed.
40:03
Anna Crowley Redding: I was just like, that is perfect.
40:07
Anna Crowley Redding: So I think, you know, what they bring to the page, you if you're willing to let go and release it, it just comes back and it's so impressive that you're just like, wow, I could have never seen that, envisioned that, asked for that, directed that.
40:24
Anna Crowley Redding: It's just, they are so talented.
40:27
Crista Cowan: I love that.
40:28
Crista Cowan: And I love that collaborative nature, right?
40:32
Crista Cowan: Like you've provided the words, they've provided the pictures, and together that creates something that much more beautiful and impactful out in the world.
40:41
Anna Crowley Redding: And what's really fun with um the historical um, with the the visual facts of the story is turning to diaries.
40:51
Anna Crowley Redding: So getting away from your main characters a little bit and turning to diaries to find out what did it look like in Washington when everyone was fleeing.
41:01
Anna Crowley Redding: And so letting that information help inform what they're doing.
41:06
Anna Crowley Redding: So providing those kind of details so that they can see.
41:10
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, and one of the things that was very important with this book was to get that sense of chaos correct and who was in the crowd and to make sure that was accurate.
41:20
Anna Crowley Redding: So it was kind of interesting to work with him, you know, on that and to make sure that the architecture and the um things in the house are correct.
41:31
Crista Cowan: Yeah, I love that.
41:32
Crista Cowan: That's amazing.
41:33
Crista Cowan: So I think you've done Stephen's story so much justice, and I love that it's getting more um exposure out in the world.
41:41
Crista Cowan: Um as an as an author, you um, you know, you have a platform to tell these stories, and you're picking intentionally, it sounds like picking stories to tell.
41:54
Crista Cowan: But for a mom who just wants to share stories that she's found in her own family history exploration with their with her children, um, you know, she doesn't have world-class illustrators at her fingertips and maybe doesn't feel like she has the skill to write the stories in the way that you do.
42:12
Crista Cowan: But are there some tips you would give her for how to share those stories with her own children?
42:19
Anna Crowley Redding: Yes.
42:19
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, the first thing is right.
42:22
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, it doesn't have to be um perfect.
42:25
Anna Crowley Redding: I I don't know anyone, including New York Times bestselling authors, who start with a perfect manuscript.
42:30
Anna Crowley Redding: I mean, we call it sloppy copy, we call it sand in the sandbox, because once you get in the sandbox, you can make the castles.
42:37
Anna Crowley Redding: So just get down what it is you're trying to say.
42:41
Anna Crowley Redding: And then with Stephen Pleasanton specifically, um, I acted out part of the story in my house so that so that I could write it because sometimes that helps you, like especially with the scrolls.
42:57
Anna Crowley Redding: Like I needed a line about him taking the documents and and rolling them into scrolls.
43:02
Anna Crowley Redding: So I did it until I could come up with bending and tucking.
43:06
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, so act it out and have some fun with your kids doing that and and ask them to narrate what you're doing and vice versa.
43:15
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, and it's a fun kind of family project, but do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
43:23
Anna Crowley Redding: Just get it on the page and include the documents.
43:26
Anna Crowley Redding: Kids today, um, you know, when I put a 19th century map in front of them, it blows their mind, you know, trying to find the lighthouse tower, they're like that little circle.
43:37
Anna Crowley Redding: I'm like, well, think about it.
43:38
Anna Crowley Redding: That's what it looks like from up above.
43:41
Anna Crowley Redding: And so get these documents, um, even cursive, uh, in front of them so that they can kind of see what it looks like.
43:49
Anna Crowley Redding: And that provides its own kind of vibe and and illustration for what you're creating, but definitely write it down.
43:58
Anna Crowley Redding: Don't leave these stories to a one day I want to.
44:02
Anna Crowley Redding: Go ahead and start.
44:03
Crista Cowan: Yeah.
44:04
Crista Cowan: Well, yeah, you started uh our conversation talking about the need for things that are real and tactile and seeing words on a page and touching original documents.
44:15
Crista Cowan: Um, I think there's ways that we can create that for our children and make sure we don't lose that.
44:22
Anna Crowley Redding: And I think too, like asking kids like these are the documents that we can find about great grandma or great grandpa or whomever.
44:31
Anna Crowley Redding: What documents are we leaving?
44:34
Anna Crowley Redding: What trace would we like to leave?
44:36
Anna Crowley Redding: Is it a journal?
44:38
Anna Crowley Redding: Is it like what is it that we want to do?
44:41
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, so that can be kind of a fun question to ask and to brainstorm um with your kids is is what kind of documents, how would we like to insert ourselves into the public record for someone that's trying to learn about us, you know, 200 years from now?
44:57
Crista Cowan: Yeah, we oh, love it.
44:59
Crista Cowan: Um so as we wrap up again, not just this episode, but the whole season uh of America 250 and and stories of the states, we think about Stephen Pleasanton, you know, this man from Delaware who saved the Declaration of Independence.
45:14
Crista Cowan: Um, you know, as you kind of look back on your journey of telling his story, or even think about maybe what's next and how you continue to tell his story, what does that look like for you?
45:26
Anna Crowley Redding: I think for me, you know, this next chapter for me is continuing to talk about courage and bravery.
45:33
Anna Crowley Redding: And I think that, you know, when we look at our ancestors and we talk about America 250, you know, go to the documents and find out what people did to build this country.
45:44
Anna Crowley Redding: Go to the documents and imagine what your ancestors went through to come here, what the risk was.
45:50
Anna Crowley Redding: And do we recognize that in other people in our communities today?
45:56
Anna Crowley Redding: You know, what kind of courage can we bring to the table?
45:59
Anna Crowley Redding: Um, and I believe we all are called to bring courage to the table.
46:04
Anna Crowley Redding: And sometimes it's the courage to research these stories, to read these stories, to piece it together.
46:10
Crista Cowan: Thank you.
46:10
Crista Cowan: Anna, thank you so much for sharing your story.
46:12
Crista Cowan: Thank you for sharing Stephen's story, not just with us here, but with the world.
46:16
Crista Cowan: Um, I just wish you continued success because I think what you're doing is so, so, so important.
46:22
Anna Crowley Redding: Well, thank you.
46:23
Anna Crowley Redding: I've loved this conversation.
46:25
Anna Crowley Redding: And um, I'm glad to be a part of the podcast and a part of the celebration of America 250.
46:30
Anna Crowley Redding: Studio sponsored by Ancestry.