Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Free Yourself to Be Yourself: A Conversation About Christian Overlays | Guest Kim Eddy Enneagram One

Transcript

Free Yourself to Be Yourself: A Conversation About Christian Overlays | Guest Kim Eddy Enneagram One · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, every type I think is so needed, but shouldn't be the blueprint.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because when a type or a few types become the blueprint, then we're worried more about the outer behavior than how somebody's heart is doing.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, I'm Amy Wicks, a Jesus and Enneagram enthusiast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: As a wife, mama of three humans, and a fur baby, I get it.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Juggling entrepreneurship in a family is challenging.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: But I believe the Lord does want your work to be enjoyable.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: As an Enneagram Type 7, I am all about the fun factor.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: And this podcast is here to help you put the joy back into working mom life.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: So you can see 1 Timothy 6.17 come to pass in your own unique.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's a verse that says, God has given us all things to enjoy.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: All?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, friends, it means all.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: Motherhood, work from home life, or work out of the home life.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: With the Lord's help, there's truly a way to feel calm, balance, joy, clarity, and peace in any arena of life.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast, where you can expect solo style and interview style episodes that are full of faith-based concepts, simple ideas, Enneagram insights, alongside practical tips to help you put that smile back on your face when it comes to doing life with Jesus.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Now get your headphones and head to that big pile of dishes in the sink, or maybe that bathroom that needed cleaning two weeks ago.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: And let's get to learning together.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm warning you now, you might be challenged, maybe even get a little uncomfortable.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm also thinking that this information is going to provide an opportunity for you to grow, heal, and learn when you listen with a teachable heart.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: My friend Kim Eddie and I chatted about something called an overlay.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if you don't know what an overlay is, an overlay is an expectation and social norm placed on you to show up in a certain way to the world, even within the parameters of a church community.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Now, a little bit about my guest today.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: Kim Eddie is a course creator, podcaster, speaker, Enneagram coach, and author.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: She's an Enneagram type one wing two and has two amazing children.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: She's based in Phoenix, Arizona.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: In this episode, we're going to talk about a lot of things.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: Here's a list of seven of them.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: How overlays can cause mistyping with the Enneagram, why you don't have to apologize for having the personality you do, expectations in the church for women to act a certain way.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: Why being Christ-like is not just like acting as an Enneagram, too.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: The harm of trying to show up as a personality that isn't yours.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Why making someone uncomfortable with your personality isn't wrong?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: And the struggles each Enneagram type feels about being themselves and really their true selves in a church setting.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, are you ready to dive in?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: Prepare your heart as you listen, friends, asking the Lord to show you and help you process all that you're going to hear, because it could be a little bit jarring, but I think also very much healing.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: All right, here we go.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's going to be good because I have conversations with a lot of people and a lot of us women in particular who have grown up in the church or who have, you know, engaged in Christian circles and maybe have experienced some wounding in not being accepted for who they are.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I know for me, I've actually, I won't share it all here because I've shared it on a podcast called Storytellers Live, and they asked for my story.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: So without going into too much detail, I just shared my experience of growing up in a pastor's home, feeling a call to ministry, but also not knowing what to do with it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: And then also apologizing, finding myself apologizing for my personality as well at different times.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, Kim's shaking her head.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that friends, you, I wish we could see each other because you're probably like, yeah, me too.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: So we're having a little bit more casual conversation than what you're gonna see maybe uh in this summit with all our amazing speakers.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so today I thought I just want to sit at my desk and I want to have coffee with Kim and we're gonna tackle a topic that I think needs to be addressed.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't wait to not just share it with you, but to even share it on a broader scale that um I would love to do with partnership um with Kim.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna talk about Christian overlays and just some personality.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be more of a conversation feel.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I want you to feel like as you're watching, join in the conversation.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: So the thoughts that you have that are popping up as we're talking, I want you to like jot them down and talk out loud to us, even if you're alone in the car.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: And and just remember, allow yourself to process some of your thoughts and feelings because, you know, I don't want the conversation to end here.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: I want it to keep going and let the Holy Spirit.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to um, yeah, preface that to begin with as we, you know, are are talking here together and um um and then also to know that we we love the local church, we love um the Christian community.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so none of our, I know just in the short time of knowing Kim, neither of our hearts is to bash anybody or malign or um to bring shame.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: This is about bringing understanding so you can better understand yourself how and maybe how you've limited yourself as well.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll stop talking.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: And Kim, I want you, yeah, just start sharing some of your heart and we're just gonna talk back and forth.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I'm excited to see what happens.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: And if I can just mirror what you said, like there is no, I don't think there is a place for malice in this conversation.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: There is no place for, like you said, shame.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think that God is um big enough for our questions.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: There is grace for um for us to share and process through wounding that even comes from his people, right?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: God is bigger than his people.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and I I think that this conversation can be really freeing uh for people who who maybe don't un who maybe are limiting themselves, like you said, and their personality or their gifting or their uh the beautiful, multifaceted way that God has made them.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: And uh can it can free us to be us, to be fully ourselves, um, even if based on the church community that we grew up in, or um, you know, that's kind of the conversation we're having here, but even culturally or or um, you know, uh societally, I think that freeing ourselves to be ourselves um helps us all.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: It helps us all because it will make some people uncomfortable until they're like, no, actually, this is the way you're made, and that's beautiful, which is growth for me, because I can accept that and not feel like there's only one right way to be.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: So um uh, so yes, thank you for saying all that.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: I completely agree.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so uh for people who might be here who may not know what an overlay is.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: Is it is it okay if I just click on it?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Please, yes, thank you.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say, yeah, we probably should explain that yes.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's not terminology we necessarily use in everyday.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: It can be kind of a secondary or next level idea when you're talking about the Enneagram.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: And really, what an overlay is, is um these pressures or expectations or norms that have been kind of laid on us and can affect how we show up in the world or how we feel like it's okay to show up in the world.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: And um for for some people, overlays can make it hard for us to find our type.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, for example, if you came from a household that uh had, let's say, a type 8 parent, and children learned how to stand up for themselves and they learned some of these behaviors, and sometimes it's a big presence, sometimes it's just constant.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is the way we are, this is who we are, and you learn that, you learn to be that, you learn to embody that, even if that's not who you are.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and for some of us, learning and and seeing these overlays can be kind of a jarring experience because then you're like, well, wait, who am I?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: If I if I'm not these things that were pressed upon me, who am I?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um so so there's also room for that.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: This conversation might be a little bit jarring.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: You might find it challenging even your thinking of, but wait, that's in the Bible, you know, as as we talk about some of these things.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yes, it is, but probably there's some other things that are equal opposites, and a lot of life is living intentionally.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so all of that to say, when we talk about Christian overlays, and I'd like to know your thoughts because we haven't really defined this between ourselves.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll give you what I think, um, Amy.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and that is the way that we grew up in a Christian culture for Amy and I, this is probably going to be your American evangelical Christian culture, right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Your local church, and the resources and teachings that come with that, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and the ways that you speak, the language that you learn, the behaviors that are pronounced more often or expected of you, that uh may or may not be healthy in the moment, right?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: There's a certain way that you might be expected to be.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: And when we talk about Christian overlays, sometimes you are expected to be a certain way, or your relationship with God might be questioned.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: There's also this moral component, spiritual component to a Christian overlay that can be really heavy.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a mantle that we carry.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm expected to be this way, or people might not view me on the same spiritual level.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um again, it can be a jarring conversation.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes my type one comes out and be like, this is how it is.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I'm avoiding that.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's so much nuance in this conversation for sure.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it can be a little benign, like uh, and we might get into some that are you're like, well, that's okay.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay to expect that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um and some can be taken to an extreme and be really harmful where you are telling people or judging people's uh spirituality based on personality traits that are neither good nor bad.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like they have nothing to do with whether they love Jesus, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's it it it's being there's something being pressed upon them simply because they're making somebody uncomfortable, not because of any intention for wrongdoing.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so it really runs the the spectrum from totally benign and things we might laugh at, right?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like stereotypical, you know, the twos bringing the casseroles or whatever, all the way to um things that can be really harmful.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: You aren't allowed to be you and be a part of this church.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think probably a lot of our conversation is going to be in the middle.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: If your experience has been harmful, I want to encourage you to before we start this conversation, because you might find it difficult to be in this conversation if you have.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: I want to encourage you to reach out to somebody who understands spiritual trauma, you know, spiritual hurt, and can help walk you through that and validate you through that as you work through uh what does God say about me?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Even if someone who loves God said something hurtful about me, about who I am in God, um, which is possible when we don't allow other people to be different.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um so all of that to say, we dove head in, uh head first into the end, I think.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: But what do you what do you think, Amy?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: What do Christian overlays kind of have denote for you?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: What do those mean?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: I would say very much the same thing.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's the heavy burden and yoke that people are carrying in expectation.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Again, this is why I think the Enneagram, how I see it is you it's taking people out of the box.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because for me, once I realized I wasn't a two, I wasn't a three, I was a seven, the free to be me, the healthy me, it was so liberating.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I've I feel like I found myself again.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: And just there was so much joy in that.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: And again, then it wasn't living under something else's expectations or someone else's expectations.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's going, okay, what were again, expectations?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: We're calling out specifically in you know the Christian culture, but this can happen at home.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: This can happen between siblings, this can happen with parents, this can, this can happen in a job, this can um, you know, happen again in ministry, right?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: Or the role that we're we're asked to play.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: So um I I'm excited because I want I want it to be used as a way to bust outside of the box, never a license for poor behavior um or to be obnoxious about, well, this is just who I am.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: But but rather freeing.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because yeah, I just that's the whole goal here.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's that's the joy of it.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: So um yeah, I'm I think it's gonna be really, really good.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because and the other thing too is that this might help people and I why I want it to be a bonus session here.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm hoping that those um who are gonna join us for the summit, they're watching this ahead of time because you may have some not just preconceived notions about the personality types, but maybe you've mistyped yourself because the environment that you were in, the the overlay, if you will, that you experienced has you mistaken about how you lead.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: So, um, and the other, the other pieces.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: I've joked, Kim, that um because for some reason, and you may have experienced this too, is that I have almost thought about starting a pastor's kid anonymous support group because for some reason I have attracted so many clients.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: I I can't even tell you the percentage.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably like 70 to 80% of my clients grew up as pastors' kids.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: And this is in talking about finding someone to support you.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't ever advertise that, but inadvertently I've helped support them as they journey through not severe spiritual abuse or anything, but but some of the overlays, some of the, you know, expectations, uh, some of the hardship um that has.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're a fellow pastor's kid, we see you.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um I definitely we understand you're not the only one out there.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: So um so anyway, um, so I'm kind of curious.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to give some other general ideas or would you like to talk about the types that come to your mind first as we're as we're exploring some of this?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so um maybe maybe the second one, because I think that there are some that kind of jump out at us, some stereotypes or some stereotype, stereotypical expectations of how to be and also some stereotypical suppressing of what you're allowed to be.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe the same two types come to mind for you.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: For me, that's on the one hand, type two, uh-huh, when we're talking about women, especially, yes, um, and the expectation to be that way.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then on the other hand, type eight and the repressing of how to be that way.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think they're really good examples to start with because um, and then maybe we can get into the nuance of some of the other ones.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Every type has some things.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but so, so one of the things that really got me looking at this uh a couple of years ago, I had someone tell me I was sharing about type twos and their unique gifting and um how they're as beautiful as every other type and struggle as as much as any other type, but in their unique ways.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I had somebody tell me um to be Christ-like is to be a two.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that stopped me in my tracks.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like I it hurt, like it hurt me.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't a two.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: It hurt me for that person.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh no, like like there's there's so much more, there's so much more beauty um beyond the autopilot tendencies of a two, and and getting to the heart of the why and and freeing yourself from that why uh a two might do what they do, uh even unintentionally, and allowing Jesus to be that why, um, and instead focusing on the outer behaviors of what looks like you're doing what you should do.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: So that's Christ-like.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: And um not not to bash on this person.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: It was it was the phrase that really stopped me in my tracks, like there's something here.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta dig deeper into what this is.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so I started looking kind of with my eyes open a little bit more, like noticing what was said, what was happening.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so what I mean uh when I say we kind of expect a lot of type two behaviors from women um is is we do expect women to defer.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: We do expect women to step in and help, we do expect women to fill in the gaps and know what's needed and do the thing.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I know many, maybe all many of your attendees to to this summit are going to be women.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of where I'm thinking.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: The majority are going to be women.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so there is this expectation if you are a woman, you put on a lot of the behaviors that a type two would naturally gravitate towards.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: And this is harmful for every type, but I think it's especially harmful for a type two because they're being reinforced to continue patterns that they're not aren't healthy, yeah, to be stuck in.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it's almost like they're being pushed, buckled in by the people around them.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no, don't get out of that.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, stay there, stay there.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: You're you're in your lane.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, you're good, you're fine, stay there.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Help me by everybody and overextend and don't have boundaries and be the first person at the scene, even though your family is dying on the vine because you're busy helping everybody.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, absolutely.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that's being reinforced and um uh pressured to stay that way.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a difficult place to be in because when a type two is ready to open up to boundaries and open up to uh being healthfully assertive and open up to uh intentionally living in each situation, you know, taking on the different aspects of Jesus, flipping a table now and then, or whatever that looks like, you know.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they're being told, no, what you were doing when it was unhealthy and didn't serve you or ultimately us, you should be doing that.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like go back to that, please.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really harmful for it too.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: For the other people, other women who are different types, but can kind of see, no, I should they they like me to be that way.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, they can put off some of their unique gifting, they can put themselves into a box that they wouldn't even naturally be in, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and try to try to stay there to to help the church as a whole feel comfortable with who they are.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: And Both are in everybody, nobody's served.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody is served by expecting a certain facet of Jesus from all women all the time.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: That was a little bit salty.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but I like it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: And bring some salt.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: But but yes, so so the the two uh the type two expectation is harmful for everybody, but I really feel for type twos who are stuck in that and are feeling the difficulty of breaking free from it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then the expectation to keep out the type eight behaviors from women, like like don't don't present those to us.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: So a type eight really feels often, and I've heard this from multiple type eights.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm not allowed to be me.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Or squashed squashed.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally squashed.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a type eight might feel like they have to put on a different persona to be accepted.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, they are too much, they're too grating, they're too intimidating, like they they show up with power when they should show up with meekness.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like that would make us feel more comfortable.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much, type eights.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's really difficult, I think.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: Now, type eights are connected to type two on the Enneagram.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: So uh some type eights have said, I can go there, I can be that person, but that's not me.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't feel good.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't feel free.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I have to just put on this other person and put myself in a box and leave it at home.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's just yeah, it's no fun.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's no fun.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the fullness of who God made you to be.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: You, it's the whole uh First Corinthians about, you know, the body has many parts and each of them are valuable.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: So this is going, hey, in the our circle, in our unique culture of Christian faith, you need to be you and bring who God created you to be to the table because it's valuable.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I know many twos and many apes who have um, well, I mean, I just in my own experience, I mistyped as a two, but I also have a lot of two character traits in the sense of not even inner motivations, because again, the Enneagram is about inner motivations, but some of my outward behavior looked more two-ish because that was exonerated in my culture, in my family culture and in the church culture that I grew up in.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so that that was a quickly identifying, again, because of the actions when that my motivation wasn't there.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: And on the flip side, those who lead as a two, they'll be quick to tell you a two isn't everything it's all cracked up to be.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know a lot of women, the joke has been as well, who are in the church at first when they hear the Enneagram are quick to say they're a two, because again, like you said, that misnomer.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, to be a two is to be more like Jesus.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, let's get it clear.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: We can find each personality type in the character of God and in the man Jesus who walked the earth and left an example for us.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um so you know, all of those types will are represented.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually have a conversation in the summit about all of those, how we can see Jesus exemplify.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, with Tyler Zach, actually.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was He's good.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: That'll be fun.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: It is really fun.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: So, so on that, you know, just note that the twos have just as much struggle as any other type.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and maybe even more so culturally, just like you said, that the behavior was reinforced.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and then just to touch on the eights, like I I have an eight wing.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: Some of my best friends are eights, and I love how they bring just so much honesty and clarity and boldness when they are running in their lane.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: They're some of the most vulnerable, helpful people when they're healthy and when they feel safe to be who they are.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, I just love the um just being able to touch them that and like we see you twos, we see you eights.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, you have a seat at the table and you have a place in the body of Christ that requires, that needs your fullness and and redeemed self, bringing that to the table and offering it because I don't know what I would do without either of you.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like I need both of you in the fullness of who you are.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it it might be helpful.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you just want to workshop with me, like what it could look like for each type, really quick, if that's okay.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I think that, you know, for me as a type one, some of my struggle was um my desire to be right and perfect and good was reinforced.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, in my church, there wasn't the the and from my my dad, you know, my pastor's kid, it wasn't taught taught to me that I have to be a certain way or I won't be accepted by God.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: But there I latched on to holiness.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, this is the way, this is the thing, okay.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like it naturally fit in where I was headed anyway on autopilot.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, freeing myself from the law, right, as I saw it, was was so beautiful and so freeing, even though that wasn't intentionally taught to me, that's what I grasped onto.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because that's what I was yes, reaching for.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: How do I be my own Jesus?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, and there there are communities where I think that's reinforced to a very unhealthy degree.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but for me, I took it and made it unhealthy for myself.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: The good behavior was applauded and exonerated, and how perfect, and you're falling in the world.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Totally, totally.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: And then uh, you know, we talked about type twos.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think type threes can be uh self-deceiving um because they know the expectations and they they can sense them.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's this, there's this uh spidey tingle that they have of I know what people are desiring from me.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I can I am I am good at uh doing whatever needs doing, right?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And and so for a type three, letting getting to know yourself in Christ can be so impactful because it's letting go of those expectations, yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: And for a type three, they can put on type two like that, if that's what's required.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or they can put on, you know, we don't talk about, we aren't talking about men as much in this, but a type three man might be like, leader, yes, let's do it.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: Even if, you know, they might want to be more behind the scenes, it's like, no, that's not what's uh rewarded or helping me feel okay in the community I'm in, right?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and even with their success fail brain, um, what does it look like to be a successful Christian?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: So putting on any role.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I know, I know for me it was interesting because I jumped from being in a pastor's home, really embodying some of that too, but truly being a seven.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then I went into an environment that exonerated the type three personality of striving.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so some of our friends may relate to that where they're in a church culture that seems to um just like push, push, push, go, go, go, do, do, do.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Not from like every ministry and involve.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, do, yes, do all the things, have all the programs and be there and show up and and work to exhaustion, um, as if that will gain you again a seat at the table or a better relationship with the Lord or acceptance.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: So um, I think for three is that, you know, there's a ton of pressure in that and of of being able to settle and calm of like, you know, a little bit like the one, but we, but going um, but also, and this is just real, I'll be quick about this, but the the fact that the only successful, the only place that you can be successful is ministry related.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Because how many of our friends have struggled with wanting to be successful with the business that the Lord has already actually created them to do or be, whether it's a business or a um in their home or something that doesn't look like the church or a typical ministry, and to have permission all of a sudden, the Lord like invited me to be successful and to achieve well in something outside the traditional church model.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: So let's free that box right now in the name of Jesus.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: No, I love that.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: I love that so much.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a lot of threes stuck on the hamster wheel of um yeah, doing church.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: How can you be?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: How can you where can you be and have time for rest and time for work?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, whether that's ministry work or whatever that is, yes, totally learning to be instead of taking on that expectation and that mantle of I have to do.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's something to be aware of as we talk for every type, as we talk about every type, like how how am I contributing to a community in my church that's um requiring things of people?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or what are some ways that my church, my community that I'm a part of might be doing this?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: And how can I lovingly counteract that?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: Remind the people around me that they're allowed to rest, you know, remind the people around me that they are allowed to have healthy boundaries and I will respect them, like be a safe space for for the different personalities that are that are there with you.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I'm curious to know what you're gonna say about the pores.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely have some ideas.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, okay, so there can be, and it's not in the Bible, but there are some verses that you could point to if you wanted to.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: There can be this feeling of good vibes only.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm with you, girl.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um positive thoughts, positive thoughts.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, whatever is good, whatever is honorable, you know.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um and Philippians 4, 7 and 8 are very valid and very true.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say sometimes the good and honorable thing is not the fun thing to think about.
• 32:34
  unknown: Read it, sister.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: But uh so there are individual verses, definitely you can pick out of the Bible that say you do not fear, do not be sad.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not sure, do not be sad is in there.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Do not fear is definitely in there many, many times, um, 365 times or something like that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um but there the the feeling that a four is allowed to encompass the full range of emotion, and that God doesn't shy away from that, God honors that, God is there in that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: And because of the world we live in, I would say God wants that for us because the process and leaning on him and trusting him.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um because we live in a fallen world, we do need to deal with the fallenness of the world and how it impacts us.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: And um I maybe saying, maybe putting that on God is too far.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: I never want to say God wants this or God desires this for us, but I do think that um we are not told to bypass.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: Spiritually bypassing is not a thing we want to do.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I think of the honesty of the psalms, and I I think we don't want to push a type four too far um and and stay there, right?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: But walking through the hard things is a gift that I think type fours have and can teach uh many other types, many different things about it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: But pushing that and expecting a type four to not be that because it makes us uncomfortable, yeah, is um ultimately keeping them from helping us, keeping maybe keeping God from using them to minister to other people, um, let alone what we're doing to the type four themselves, you know, and tamping down and saying, stop it, don't be sad.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: Too much emotion.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: But I but I am.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um I would say type four, it's okay.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like we see you, you are allowed to be whatever you feel.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's valid and beautiful, I think.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for a type four to feel whatever they feel, to emote.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: Ready for type five?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, type five.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like I have I have thought type of yeah.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um okay, if it's okay, I'll just go.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that type fives have a lot of valid anxiety around what's expected at church.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: When you go to church, you have to touch everybody.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have this, um, you have to give a lot of energy.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: You have to show how much you care.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: You have to, oh, I don't know if you do this at your church, but I don't do this in my church.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: But greet each other with a holy kiss or whatever that looks like today.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right, exactly.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, five and shake, hello.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Say so, say, you know, give a greeting to someone new.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: Go find somebody new and engage them in conversation.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, type five.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: Greatest thing ever for a five.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Panic attack, um, quite possibly, you know, or even the anticipation of knowing what's coming when you drive to church and park in the parking lot and get out, um, can I think with a lot of validity, put put some uh anxiety and stress on a type five.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I I would suggest for a church community, like allow your your people who don't tell them your cup can be empty and God will fill it.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because what you're telling them is give us the energy that we want to see um as if as if that's what's needed.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: So we just finished type five.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: I do think that there's a lot of room for us to allow people to withdraw when they need to withdraw and not put any of that on their walk with Jesus.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: And the other thing too that I think is really important is that the five is going to approach their faith intellectually.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: There is just, I have very close fives in my life.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that for them, um, depending on what denomination you're with, and or you know, of experience, is that you could feel like everybody's faith there is only grounded in experience and not biblical knowledge or truth.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I go, it's both and first of all, I think it's both and, but um, but your right to challenge the norm, maybe that you have been previewed to, where it has been experience-based and you're and you're approaching this going, I'm not having this experience like everyone else's.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: Is my faith still valid?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I go, yes, absolutely, a hundred percent.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you bring to the table the research, the theological questioning, the the deep dive into what does faith look like at when I approach it with my you know mental intuition and um prowess, even because it's an amazing gift that um our type five friends bring to the table that is really important, you know, it's it's word and faith.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: And um so just as you know, faith is, you know, faith without works is dead.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're looking at those, you know, coupling together for uh for the two in the same way of going, you know, that like this is where the five gets to bring their their understanding of the word.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and yeah, just because it looks different on you doesn't mean it it doesn't discount it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's no, I love that because I think that um, you know, many having gone through the pandemic for a year or whatever that looks like are like, well, what what does my faith look like?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, many people are asking some of the big questions.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, and I think that our type fives have this natural ability to get to the uncomfortable questions and see them.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: And giving people space and the ability without judgment to ask those questions is a really beautiful thing to offer someone.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that our our churches can do this uh if they do it with intention.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: The difficulty is when a tough question makes somebody uncomfortable and they have a reaction, right?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then the type five might not feel safe to ask those questions out loud.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: The question is still happening.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but giving a safe space to think about it and be like, what is God saying to you?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: And how does this, you know, what does this look like for you?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: And allowing um the nuance of those difficult questions is really important.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think for our communities.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: Type six.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think that type sixes get the uh a tough end of the stick, you know.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because do not be anxious in anything.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: And the type six is being there like, okay.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's not gonna cut it.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: My life is wrong, you know, and that's not true.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: I do not believe that.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I think that whether you believe it's a command or an invitation, I tend to think do not be anxious is an invitation.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I I think that it it there's there's this feeling that sixes aren't allowed to be uncomfortable or uncertain.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's beauty and uncertainty.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think that sixes show us what faith looks like because their questions aren't answered.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: They find they find more questions than answers.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just a beautiful place to see a type six say, even in these questions, I I can find my way to God.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: There's this connection there, even if sometimes I feel far away.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it it it's just it's just a beautiful thing.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think sixes show us what.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't know if I'm coining a new term or if some people will be like heresy, but I think that um faithful anxiety.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: Faith and anxiety.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, because you know, we're learning more now that anxiety is is a is a physiological thing often.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's it's not always something we choose.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, for type sixes, I would say it's not something that's chosen, it's something that happens.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's something we can work, process through, and come out the other side of as we grow in Jesus and also learning our tendencies.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: And and um, you know, it's a journey, of course.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, churches, communities, we should not tell people who are anxious that they're lacking in faith because I think it's a picture of what faith can look like to be anxious and still seek God, like that's beauty.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's the invitation that we have.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I got theological there, but no, I love it.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's I think that sixes feel outside um a lot because of their emotional experience.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think that should be true.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yep, yeah, and they show us, I think, intertwined with the faith is the courage, the courage to do it anyway.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: Do it scared.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think it's about that, but it's it's stepping out in faith and having the courage to move forward or to believe, even if you don't have all the answers, even if you're still anxious, even if you, you know, don't have it perfectly settled in um, you know, in all your possible scenario thinking.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but yes, we step forward and yes.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think we think that faith is certainty.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think sixes can show us no faith is is living in the uncertainty and trusting anyway.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, yes, trusting and and it's just so it's the beautiful picture that we should take from sixes.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: Very good.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: Type sevens.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's talk about yeah, you're a type seven, that's why I pointed at you.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: But um you you might have a natural reinforcement to reframe to the positive, I think, inside communities.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um reframe what's positive, what is God doing?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that's beautiful.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but type sevens can learn from type fours, you know, like this, like how do how do I process through the deeper things that I want to reframe, even when I'm being unhealthy, right?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: When I don't want to think about, when I want two positive vibes only.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: Even if God might be calling me to have a difficult conversation or walk through something, or God is showing me something that's not fun to look at, sit in.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I I think that we can thoughtfully encourage our type sevens to hey, just sit sit and be with me for a minute.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's talk through this.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: How are you really?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like you look fine.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I know you might not be.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: So how can I support you in reality?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and there hopefully there are um type sevens have people who can help them with this.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it might simply just be, hey, sometimes I'm not fine and you can tell.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're allowed to dig a little bit.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: You're allowed to um ask the hard questions.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: Ask the hard question three times, right?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes that's what it takes.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_03: I found with some of my type sevens, it's like, no, no, I'm fine.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really fine.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: And they they can even project that, like emote that.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes that third one is like, okay, well, here it comes.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: Or bring the conversation back around when they have successfully redirected it, and I'll bring it back.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, I think for a seven, again, speaking from personal experience, maybe similar to the three and the eight as well, who are in the assertive stance and the communication style.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: So we we come out a little bit larger than life, a little bit loud.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: And again, depending on the church culture, home culture, that may have felt um, again, I think I've used the word squashed before, but maybe just, you know, like in a cage, restricted.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: You can come so far.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, no further.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: Until you're not, or or even in the assertive types.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is kind of a, you know, maybe for my younger people, or maybe you just remember, but it can come across as um with the opposite sex as flirty.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, people would interpret it as, well, you know, they're just flirty when it's just that's your happy, go-lucky, joyful nature, and you treat anybody of any sex the same way.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, um, it can be misinterpreted.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: So, and we all, you know, again, we have all of those things um that are like, oh yeah, I was totally misunderstood because of my natural action.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I think in particular, those are some of the the cultural challenges.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: And we're, you know, we're we're speaking mo mainly to women here.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that is a heavy burden, you know, that we if you grew up in church, you probably have felt that burden.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I have to be just right in how I relate, uh, meeting others' expectations and how I relate to other people of the of the opposite sex, because yes, and that's a different conversation.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: But um, but yes, I absolutely and thank you for pointing out like the assertive triad, like the it's it's uh the stance that it can showing up and having a vibe, right?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: Having a presence like our assertive types do can make other people uncomfortable, right?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: And type seven, eight, and three kind of show up differently, but there's this feeling of I'm here.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um and even if the intention isn't I'm here and it's all about me, right?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Just being around a type three, seven, or eight, like you notice, yeah, because there's a presence um and an energy that flows.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: It just happens, it just happens, right?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: Even and and it's healthy, right?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: It can be used in unhealthy ways for sure, just like everybody's um type.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: But but yeah, uh, it can be uncomfortable for people who are like, no, see, here we we get small.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: We get small because God is right, um, right?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: That and no, it's like I'm I'm me.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, God is bigger, like you know, but this is my energy level, and it's okay.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we want to be mindful of how we use it and intentional, um, just like our withdrawing types, you know, you want to be mindful of how you use that and intentional and maybe step out of your comfort zone for a three, seven, or eight, it might be like, okay, I'm gonna step out of my comfort zone into something a little bit smaller, not because of a human expectation, but because that's the situation God has me in right now, and that's the healthy response right now.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, so yes, absolutely.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: But our assertive types can sometimes be like whack-em all.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like sit down.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: Sit down too much energy.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good way to put it.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: Bulk.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um we did talk about type eight.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: I do think that type eight is just put in a box.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because we see you, we hear you, we love you, come out of your box.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like being an assertive type like type three or type seven, but there there's this, um, but the willingness to say and speak honestly.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um and not maybe, maybe feeling like, oh, my charisma isn't coming across.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's not being seen.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas for type three and type seven, it's a little more easier to grasp for other people of different types.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: For a type eight, it can be a little harder to see that natural charisma and be seen as fully yourself and accepted, but you have the assertiveness.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes type eights are like, I just what can I do as myself?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing for me here.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, especially maybe as a woman.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: In in church.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, because if we were talking about men, well, this would be a very different conversation.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: It would be a different conversation.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: It'd be like, okay, be in be like an eight, be like a three, be like a seven.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's a don't you dare be like a two.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: So true.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's that's salty again.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, you know, our our men sometimes have the opposite problem of being able to show up fully as themselves.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: Totally, totally.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then, and then type nine um can be reinforced to be small and to not have an opinion.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that's no good.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's no good.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: That that's not allowing our type nines to be themselves at all.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I definitely think that we can empower nines to have a personal opinion, yes, and and still be like, Yeah, you get to be fully you and fully love Jesus at the same time.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, go go flip a table every now and then because uh people need to hear your perspective.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: People need to know what you see because type nines often have a very wide lens, they can see a lot of things, but they may not feel empowered to share them.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that feeling of not being empowered might be reinforced if we aren't careful and seek to empower our type nines uh there inside the church community.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I think their their voice is so valuable in the sense that uh oftentimes, especially right now, it's so either or and it's it's explosive and we're not having conversations and it's small sound bites and it's you know, da-da-da-da-da, my way is the right way.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas I feel like when I invite nine friends or I'm married to a type nine.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so I definitely have learned to appreciate, haven't always appreciated the fact that he brings the both perspectives, right?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: To an argument, to a decision making.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a gift that you can bring to the church where you can bring in a perspective of, well, maybe they can see how people outside this organization, this church, the denomination, whatever it is that we're out who are on the opposite side of the decision that we're making.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where showing up is so valuable because you do need to remind others of it's not just your perspective you're representing, but of others' perspectives.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: And just as the eight champions those, you know, I feel like the defenseless and the voiceless, so does the nine in their way of just going, hey, have you thought about this?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: Have you considered how they might feel?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, that's unique.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's a element that we we need to have, you know, all the time as we're making decisions and you know, changes.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: So this is where I can, I think, especially if you're maybe in a church who's like, you know, only this, you know, just the kind of the the narrow, um where I think we should all be focused as Christians, like Jesus is the bullseye, right?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like he is the center, he's the center of all we do and he's our focus and he's our saving grace.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: And and and it's through him that we can have relationship with the Father.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: And outside of that, a lot of that, like it's not directly in the Word of God.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where it's so great to bring in um, you know, like the fives for good theological discussion, the nines for, hey, let's have some outside of like how we can reach people who don't feel comfortable here.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: So right we love you, type nines.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: I love it so much.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_03: Every type I think is so needed, but shouldn't be the blueprint.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because when a type or a few types become the blueprint, then we're worried more about the outer behavior than how somebody's heart is doing.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so and and that's where the danger of Christian overlays is, I think, and where we should be evaluating, reevaluating.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: How are we doing?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: How does everybody feel?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_03: Is everybody free to be themselves?
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_03: Is is there are there certain behaviors that we do see in Jesus that we prefer over others that we also see in Jesus when they come from other people?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it are there are there things about Jesus when they're being reflected back at us from other people that we're uncomfortable with?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: And why?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like what's going on there to make us uncomfortable with someone uh speaking truth at us that's difficult.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and why are we trying to put them in a box so that they can't do that to us anymore?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there there's so there's a lot of um ways for us to evaluate, I guess, the collective heart of our community.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like what makes us uncomfortable and why?
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like uh especially if it's coming from a healthy, honest, God-centered motivation.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: Why does that make us uncomfortable?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and because that's where an overlay comes from, an expectation to avoid the discomfort.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and when it becomes embedded in the culture, that becomes an overlay.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then people either adhere and conform, or they get seen as an outsider that maybe we let in as long as they don't do those things.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I think a lot of the what's that?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_03: The way they perform, if they perform the way we want them to.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and that's a dangerous place to be.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: So I would encourage, just as you're thinking, obviously, it's hard to change a whole community.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, there's a lot of very embedded things that we're talking about here that are embedded even in our different states, you know, we're states, we're time zones away.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we deal with some of the same things, but thinking about how you can either contribute or challenge lovingly um the community culture that you're a part of.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: And even if it does make people uncomfortable, what are some ways that God might be asking you to get out of your overlay box?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and how can you do that without being trying to be uh vengeful or have retribution about it?
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like like you said, you don't want to be belligerent.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to be like, well, this is who I am, and you have to accept me.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think it's more of, well, this is how I'm called to be, and you may be uncomfortable with it.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: I I see this in Jesus too.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like I see um, I I I believe that I'm called to set healthy boundaries because uh God has called me to these important things to prioritize in my life, and and that doesn't fit right now.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it, you know, being okay with people being uncomfortable without uh hitting them over the head with it, I guess.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how dare you have this expectation on me?
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: Or having to make some big bold announcement on the socials about your stance or position.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's coming in with humility but honesty, where you know, I think your heart, Kim, and my heart is to have women watch this and have the revelation and then have have the permission to like celebrate how the Lord made you and to work on the not just the self-awareness, but the healthy God awareness piece.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_03: So you can then bring that healthy element to the body of Christ.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: And just by being confident in who the Lord made you, that that would be enough to create a ripple effect that you may not even know, um, but would maybe give other women courage and and foster a conversation.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I wrote the book I did Should Christians Use the Enneagram.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't to, you know, create an argument, it was to foster conversation and to have a thoughtful, you know, let's let's just see, let's explore this.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: How can we um really be all that the Lord has created us to be?
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, in all the facets that you know Jesus shows us and that God calls us to, and that we all have kind of this unique gifting to lean into.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's room for all of that, and there's lack when all of that isn't there.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think you said it, you know, we all are part of the body of Christ and we all bring unique gifts.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: And if we reinforce some and repress the others, we are limiting um our ability to be a full community and to be fully who God might want us to be as that community uh engages with the world.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and and fosters um growth in each other for sure.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think it's all needed.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: Two's we love you, we want you to grow and we want to give you space to grow.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: Eights, we love you, we want you to come out, be able to come out of your box.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want to push you into anything.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's and same with all the other types, you know.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's not absolutely you are you are needed, you are valued, you have room for growth beyond your own patterns.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want to say, stay where you are, because God always has more for you to grow in and become aware of, like you said.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um but we don't want to hamper or hinder who you are now and who God might call you to become based on your unique gifting and unique um creation that you are, like the Imagio Deo, the image of God that you that you're created in.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like everybody is so beautiful.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_03: We are more beautiful as a community when we allow that unique beauty in each other.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_03: So that's really and I know that's your heart too, Amy.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_03: But amen, sister.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: We have some church.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think so.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think so.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you for this bonus time.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, definitely an effort and a sacrifice for the whole crew there.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I just love that we have this bonus session for our friends who invested in the all access pass and um who will be able to watch this at their leisure.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think a lot of people are having some of this conversation in their own areas.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what does this look like for me?
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the Enneagram can speak clearly into the conversation to help us see um, oh, that's to give language a bound around it.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much for letting me like this.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: This is just a beautiful conversation, life-giving to me.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like neither of us really came in with notes.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was just like, hey, let's talk about it.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_03: I absolutely loved it when Kim said, God is big enough for your questions.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't it comforting to know that it's okay to question what you've been taught as truth?
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that God is okay with critical thinking and the fact that you may not understand something.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: As James 1.5 says, we can ask for wisdom when we feel like we are lacking, and God is not going to rebuke you for asking for said wisdom.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_03: He is a giver of good gifts, and he is the Lord who provides.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that includes wisdom for any situation, including wisdom about how it's okay to act as a Christian.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Kim and I both pray that this replay of this bonus episode from last year's summit leaves you feeling free to be you.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_03: We are trusting the Lord will bring about healing from even age-old wounds as you've tuned into this episode today.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_03: I felt in my heart I was to reshare this episode, and I know the Holy Spirit knows what he is doing when he prompts me to share certain content.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: And if you take one thing from this episode on Christian Overlays, I pray that you take away that there's more than one way to look as a Christian.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to have just one personality type to successfully showcase God's characteristics to those around you.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_03: Friend, I'm so excited to announce that Kim is going to be one of the speakers again at the wholehearted Enneagram Summit this September.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_03: Did you love this conversation with her today?
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: Did you resonate with her Enneagram 1 Wing Two personality?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: Then I think you're going to love hearing her speak at the summit and gleaning from a brand new set of conversations and her wisdom.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: Again, all the details to sign up for this free event can be found in the show notes.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_03: And next week, I'm going to be back with a brand new episode about a movie that I saw this summer and just loved, Mr.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: Malcolm's List.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: Did you get to see it?
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness, it was literally spur of the moment.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think we bought the last tickets for the last showing in our city, maybe 45 minutes before it began.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: It was so good.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_03: I had so much fun watching it.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I immediately, as I was sitting there in the theater, yeah, it was a small theater and there weren't very many people there, but I was watching it and what like screamed out to me was their personality types.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like those who wrote this script or the book, I think it was based on a book, had to have had some Enneagram understanding.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was just clear as day to me.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, who better to talk about this movie and have an Enneagram conversation about it than Deo from Black Enneagram on Instagram.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_03: And Deo, who came and spoke at our summit last year.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, she's going to be speaking again.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_03: She's going to do a leadership session that I think you are going to just love.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_03: But before you get to hear that, the summit, I thought it would be really fun for you to hear us talk about Mr.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: Malcolm's list.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's just something fun, something carefree, lighthearted.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: Plus, it was a great movie and had amazing illustrations about the Enneagram.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: I just, you know, thought it kind of brought it to life in a fun way.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm looking forward to sharing with you that next week.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_03: But until then, I pray that you continue to pursue God's perspective, his purpose, and plans for your wholehearted life.