Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / The Week That Was - 18th November 2022

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The Week That Was - 18th November 2022 · 360 with Katie Woolf

0:00
Speaker 1: It is time for the week that was in a
0:02
Speaker 1: packed studio this morning. We've got the oppositions Marray, Claire
0:05
Speaker 1: booth be good morning.
0:06
Speaker 2: To you, Good morning Katie, and to your listeners.
0:08
Speaker 1: We've got Sky News correspondent. What do we call you,
0:11
Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham, anything you. We've got Kesier Puric, she's back
0:18
Speaker 1: the Well the Independent member for going at.
0:20
Speaker 3: Good morning to you, Keysy, morning Katie, Morning bush people.
0:23
Speaker 1: And we've got Brent Potter back for the Labor Party.
0:25
Speaker 1: Good morning to your Brench. It is certainly going to
0:29
Speaker 1: be a busy one. There's been no shortage of topics
0:32
Speaker 1: up for discussion throughout this week and I do want
0:34
Speaker 1: to just go firstly to the situation that unfolded in
0:37
Speaker 1: Katherine on Wednesday night. Police say that it was lucky
0:41
Speaker 1: that no one was hurt or killed when a group
0:43
Speaker 1: of teenagers in allegedly stolen vehicles well rammed a pair
0:47
Speaker 1: of police cars in Catherine. On Wednesday at about eleven pm,
0:51
Speaker 1: police received reports that two cars had been stolen from
0:54
Speaker 1: the Northern Land Council compound in Catherine. It's about two
0:58
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy kilometers as we know away from Darwin
1:01
Speaker 1: now they were being driven erratically around the town. We
1:04
Speaker 1: spoke to the Deputy Commissioner, Michael Murphy on the show
1:07
Speaker 1: yesterday and yeah, he had said that obviously they'd put
1:11
Speaker 1: the lives of those police officers in danger, the lives
1:15
Speaker 1: of bystanders in danger, their own lives in danger. Now,
1:20
Speaker 1: my understanding is that three teenagers age between fourteen and
1:23
Speaker 1: sixteen have been taken into custody. One was already an
1:27
Speaker 1: arrest target from what Michael Murphy.
1:29
Speaker 4: Had told us.
1:29
Speaker 1: Two others are on bail conditions already for property offenses.
1:34
Speaker 1: And this is just, I guess, a week and a
1:37
Speaker 1: half after we'd seen other terrible vision out of Alice
1:41
Speaker 1: Springs with kids as young as eleven allegedly involved.
1:46
Speaker 5: The terrible thing too.
1:48
Speaker 6: Wilfie I wasn't at Michael Murphy' press conference, but I
1:51
Speaker 6: already his comments subsequently where he was saying, this is
1:54
Speaker 6: a social media trend that's happening across Northern Australia. They're
1:58
Speaker 6: seeing it in the Kimberly, They're seeing it in Townsville,
2:00
Speaker 6: how they're seeing it in Catherine and Alice Springs where
2:02
Speaker 6: the kids are basically doing this for kicks. So that
2:04
Speaker 6: they can film it and put it on social media.
2:06
Speaker 6: I think that's really concerning. I mean, if people are
2:08
Speaker 6: going out and committing a crime that's serious to steal
2:11
Speaker 6: vehicles and then ram them into police.
2:13
Speaker 5: Cars, putting people's lives at risk in.
2:15
Speaker 6: The process, and they're doing this to get a kick
2:18
Speaker 6: from their mates on social media, it's a real worry.
2:20
Speaker 3: But Matt, I don't think that they consciously think of
2:23
Speaker 3: the fact that they're putting lives at risk, even their own.
2:26
Speaker 3: I think they're just so dopey and so dumb and
2:29
Speaker 3: devoid of any intellect or intelligence that they just steal
2:32
Speaker 3: and it's just goodturdorous violence. Yet again, but it seems
2:36
Speaker 3: to be becoming a more commonplace, like the Alice Springs situation,
2:39
Speaker 3: as you said, and even I think early this morning
2:41
Speaker 3: because I saw something early on Facebook another car was rammed,
2:46
Speaker 3: ran across the Coles car park and crashed into a
2:48
Speaker 3: service station whereabouts Alice Springs this morning. And now, of course, Catherine,
2:53
Speaker 3: and if it is a trend, then God help us,
2:56
Speaker 3: help all of us, you know, because we don't want cars.
2:58
Speaker 3: You know, it's a car is a way.
3:00
Speaker 7: Yeah, used that's going to happen in dar One, but
3:04
Speaker 7: sadly it already has been happening in Darwin a Parmestan
3:06
Speaker 7: for a long time as well. We've seen ram raids
3:08
Speaker 7: on businesses quite often. And you know what I want
3:11
Speaker 7: to know is like, what is the tipping point? When
3:14
Speaker 7: is the government going to actually do something different. We've
3:17
Speaker 7: had We've now had six years of labor. We have
3:20
Speaker 7: seen things got worse, not better. And all we hear
3:23
Speaker 7: is words. We don't hear any actions that are going
3:26
Speaker 7: to change anything that's going to give territories the confidence
3:29
Speaker 7: to know that something is going to change, is going
3:31
Speaker 7: to be light at the end of the tunnel.
3:33
Speaker 8: It's disgusting behavior. Put it simply, what are you going
3:35
Speaker 8: to do about us that? Well, hold on, I'll let
3:37
Speaker 8: you talk. I let everyone talk. I get the chance
3:38
Speaker 8: now to do It's what the radio station's about. So
3:40
Speaker 8: disgusting behavior. I'm glad that they got three of them.
3:43
Speaker 8: No police officers should have ever been put in that position.
3:45
Speaker 8: I'm glad none of they're injured. And I hope the
3:47
Speaker 8: judiciary takes into accounts of safety and they put that
3:50
Speaker 8: before the individuals wants the strategy well, and there is
3:53
Speaker 8: a separation betawse. It's beween the courts and they do
3:55
Speaker 8: all the judiciary and the government. And there's enough legislation
3:58
Speaker 8: in place. We brought in the youth reforms last year.
3:59
Speaker 8: The kids are on bail, so I would hope that
4:01
Speaker 8: the judiciary uses that legislation and puts office first.
4:04
Speaker 7: But you remove the breach of bail as a condition,
4:06
Speaker 7: and I mean, this is squarely the fault of the government.
4:09
Speaker 7: Those kids should never have been out there in the
4:10
Speaker 7: first place. You've had six years to do something. You
4:13
Speaker 7: are acting like everything is fine and that the court
4:16
Speaker 7: system is going to do its job and that everyone's
4:17
Speaker 7: going to be fine.
4:18
Speaker 2: Territories are not fine.
4:20
Speaker 7: Things out there are not okay, And every single day
4:22
Speaker 7: and night we see these awful incidences and we just
4:26
Speaker 7: know that the consequences are not there.
4:27
Speaker 8: So let's let's clarify something quickly if I can, Katie,
4:29
Speaker 8: we remove breach of bail as an offense of itself.
4:32
Speaker 8: You still breach a bail condition. You are still going
4:34
Speaker 8: before the court. You are having your bail revoked, and
4:36
Speaker 8: you are going before the court. The difference was breach
4:38
Speaker 8: of bale's and then clog up the court as an
4:39
Speaker 8: individual offense. They're still being held accountable, they're still going
4:42
Speaker 8: to court, they're still getting em D, they're still going
4:45
Speaker 8: to sult Bush. It's still there, just not a criminal
4:47
Speaker 8: offense as you would like it to be.
4:48
Speaker 1: Well, I do reckon, then we are seeing a situation
4:51
Speaker 1: where you know, presumably someone's on bail and they're then
4:55
Speaker 1: committing an offense like what we saw in Catherine.
4:57
Speaker 8: I just don't think they comprehend their actions. I actually
4:59
Speaker 8: genuine don't believe they care that then how do.
5:02
Speaker 1: We as a community, you know, if that is the case,
5:06
Speaker 1: how do we then as a community continue to sort
5:09
Speaker 1: of function in the way that we currently are. If
5:11
Speaker 1: we've got kids that are trying to outdo each other
5:14
Speaker 1: on TikTok or on social media, that don't genuinely understand
5:19
Speaker 1: the consequence of their actions and the fact that they're
5:22
Speaker 1: not only putting the police in danger, themselves in danger,
5:25
Speaker 1: bystanders in danger. But then, you know, that's at the
5:27
Speaker 1: most extreme level like we saw on Wednesday night. But
5:31
Speaker 1: we've still got other things happening, you know, almost daily,
5:35
Speaker 1: and it is breaking the community.
5:41
Speaker 3: Because I've been away, but just before I went away,
5:43
Speaker 3: they there was people who broke into or young people
5:46
Speaker 3: who broke into the Hoardsprings tavern and the Hume to
5:49
Speaker 3: do golf, GPS yep and somehow installing cars presumably. But
5:54
Speaker 3: somehow those fews ended up down my road at home
5:57
Speaker 3: wall of be Holt's Road and they are running through
5:59
Speaker 3: the bush and then when we found out, there's lots
6:01
Speaker 3: of police chase them through the bush, but they'd gone
6:03
Speaker 3: from Howard Springs back to Taylor right now. This is
6:05
Speaker 3: in the this was in the morning, and these youth
6:08
Speaker 3: they didn't catch them, which you know, of course they're
6:10
Speaker 3: going to catch them because they're pretty dumb, these criminals.
6:13
Speaker 3: But that was just one isolated incident that you know,
6:15
Speaker 3: has touched our road people. And we've got a few
6:18
Speaker 3: elderly people on our road, but you know, we look
6:20
Speaker 3: after them. But I know in Palmerston's it's almost like
6:22
Speaker 3: daily currents things that go wrong Inston. But you know,
6:25
Speaker 3: even in these criminals, and you know, even.
6:28
Speaker 1: In the situation in Alice Springs, and please correct me
6:30
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, but the situation that unfolded in Alice
6:32
Speaker 1: Springs about a week and a half ago, I'm pretty
6:34
Speaker 1: sure and I know that these kids were young, but
6:36
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that a couple of them got just
6:38
Speaker 1: taken home, Like, how is that actually a consequence to
6:43
Speaker 1: a very very dangerous action. And that's the questions that
6:47
Speaker 1: the community is starting to ask right now because we're
6:50
Speaker 1: not seeing a change to the behavior. And I certainly
6:53
Speaker 1: take on board what you're saying that you know, with
6:54
Speaker 1: some of these kids, they may not see what they're
6:56
Speaker 1: doing is as being wrong, but it is and it's
6:59
Speaker 1: not acceptible.
7:00
Speaker 9: So I think there's where you spoke about last week.
7:02
Speaker 8: I speak about it now and I don't know the
7:04
Speaker 8: particular circumstances of those kids being taken home with any consequence,
7:07
Speaker 8: and if that's happened, and they are at an age
7:09
Speaker 8: where they should be given a consequence when that should
7:10
Speaker 8: have happened. But I think there's three things here. The
7:12
Speaker 8: Abriiginal Justice Agreement, family responsibility agreements. At the end of
7:15
Speaker 8: the day, families and communities need to come together and
7:18
Speaker 8: take a lot of responsibility for this rhythm.
7:20
Speaker 9: Now we're working.
7:21
Speaker 8: You know, the Territory Families Minister came out and said
7:23
Speaker 8: for those that are unable to adequately care for a
7:26
Speaker 8: child in that situation where they're taken home or then
7:28
Speaker 8: we need a circuit breakout to take them away from that.
7:30
Speaker 8: But the next day, like I said last when it
7:31
Speaker 8: was last week on Friday on your show, they come
7:33
Speaker 8: in really hard with territory families. They find out what's
7:35
Speaker 8: going wrong and if they need a level of intervention
7:37
Speaker 8: there to make that kid safe and get them on
7:39
Speaker 8: the right track, then we'll do that. But to say,
7:41
Speaker 8: you know, as Maria and those guys would say, we'll
7:43
Speaker 8: put the Marie Claire would put them straight back into
7:45
Speaker 8: don Dale. You know, they should have had their breach
7:47
Speaker 8: of bailors and offensible. It clogs up the system. Taxpayers
7:50
Speaker 8: are paying for it. So we know that programs work,
7:52
Speaker 8: but sometimes they may fail a program first second time.
7:55
Speaker 9: They are kids. At the end of the day, they're
7:56
Speaker 9: not adults.
7:57
Speaker 8: You need to keep working at it, and I think
7:58
Speaker 8: the family Responsibility Agreements the one way.
8:00
Speaker 9: Of doing that.
8:01
Speaker 7: Brand You say a lot of words, and so do
8:02
Speaker 7: your labor colleagues, but at the end of the day,
8:05
Speaker 7: things are worse now under your than they have ever been,
8:09
Speaker 7: especially in the last six years. I mean, we have
8:12
Speaker 7: people who are leading the territory. There are seniors who
8:15
Speaker 7: have been invested emotionally and financially in the Northern Territory
8:19
Speaker 7: for such a long time. Who are packing up and leaving?
8:21
Speaker 7: And if we can't keep those people who to stay here,
8:24
Speaker 7: then what hope have we got to keep those well,
8:28
Speaker 7: not only to attract people, but the people who have
8:29
Speaker 7: only been here, living here for a couple of years.
8:31
Speaker 7: I mean, those people are not going to put up
8:33
Speaker 7: with that. They are going to leave and we're going
8:34
Speaker 7: to be in a word situation. What I'm hearing is
8:37
Speaker 7: the only things that are working under these all these
8:40
Speaker 7: words that you use is that labour think they're doing
8:42
Speaker 7: a good job. The criminals must think you're doing a
8:44
Speaker 7: good job. But I can tell you now Territorians believe
8:48
Speaker 7: that this is woeful. We are at Price's point. People
8:51
Speaker 7: are leaving and they've had enough.
8:53
Speaker 3: I think it's gone marriage. I think it's gone past
8:56
Speaker 3: Christ's point. We've talked about this lots of times. The
8:58
Speaker 3: next word that we can use, I can't think what
9:00
Speaker 3: goes beyond crisis. I don't know chos crisis whatever, or
9:04
Speaker 3: just structurally things are failing within certain towns in the
9:08
Speaker 3: Northern Territory and government does have a very major and
9:12
Speaker 3: important role to try and address the problems. Now, I
9:15
Speaker 3: hear what government says, and I hear what Brent's saying,
9:17
Speaker 3: all that sort of stuff, but no one sees like
9:20
Speaker 3: we keep hearing it. And I've mentioned this before. We
9:22
Speaker 3: keep hearing about diversion. I go on a diversion, but
9:25
Speaker 3: we never see any data as to whether there's success
9:28
Speaker 3: out of these diversion programs. We always hear about things
9:31
Speaker 3: going on in and wrap around services and all this
9:33
Speaker 3: sort of stuff, but we never see any data as to, oh, yes,
9:36
Speaker 3: we've managed to divert six kids who haven't gone to
9:38
Speaker 3: don Dale.
9:39
Speaker 9: And I get it.
9:39
Speaker 3: Don Dale is the last resort.
9:41
Speaker 2: I get that.
9:43
Speaker 3: And if they have exhausted all their avenues of trying
9:46
Speaker 3: to rehabilitate, fine, chuck them in with don Dale and
9:49
Speaker 3: you know, do the crime, do the timetype of thing.
9:51
Speaker 3: But it's getting worse. There's something that's out there in
9:54
Speaker 3: our community that they are not addressing. Government's not addressing
9:58
Speaker 3: why this is happening. They're not getting to the roots
10:00
Speaker 3: causes of why these young people are not so young people,
10:03
Speaker 3: or anyone for that matter, is committing the level of
10:05
Speaker 3: crime that's been committed in our northern territory.
10:07
Speaker 6: It's a breakdown of life in our remote communities as
10:11
Speaker 6: much as anything. And we're now seeing the effects of that,
10:14
Speaker 6: the fact that these people have probably grown up in
10:16
Speaker 6: places where you know, they live a pretty ordinary life
10:21
Speaker 6: and the sort of life where you know, you and
10:23
Speaker 6: I wouldn't want our kids to really live or exist
10:27
Speaker 6: like that. And so now we're seeing that the end
10:29
Speaker 6: result of that, I mean, I reckon, we're seeing the
10:32
Speaker 6: end result of a failure of government policies over a
10:34
Speaker 6: long time, and federal government policies. A lot of kids
10:37
Speaker 6: who are doing these things right now are probably about
10:40
Speaker 6: fifteen years old. Fifteen years ago, the federal government bought
10:44
Speaker 6: in the five thousand dollars cash payment baby bonus. I
10:48
Speaker 6: think that's probably a factor that we're dealing with here
10:51
Speaker 6: at the moment as well. The federal government two years
10:54
Speaker 6: ago doubled welfare payments and allowed early access to superannuation,
10:59
Speaker 6: and it had an absolutely devastating effect. And the problem
11:03
Speaker 6: for the government, and I have some sympathy for them,
11:06
Speaker 6: is that they're getting they get attacked from one side
11:08
Speaker 6: over issues like crime and the sorts of things we're
11:12
Speaker 6: talking about the other day, right now at the very
11:14
Speaker 6: same time, there is another conversation going on where people
11:18
Speaker 6: are yelling and screaming. Equally is loud saying why are
11:22
Speaker 6: you treating these kids so badly?
11:24
Speaker 5: And I don't know what they're supposed to do.
11:26
Speaker 6: And we've had this conversation many times before about that
11:28
Speaker 6: Royal Commission that we spent seventy four million dollars on. Well,
11:32
Speaker 6: it's five years yesterday since the final report of that
11:34
Speaker 6: Royal Commission was handed down. And where are we now
11:38
Speaker 6: where justice is worse and youth crime issues are worse.
11:42
Speaker 6: It's been an absolute disaster and it's also left the
11:46
Speaker 6: government in a position where it's totally hamstrung. It tries
11:49
Speaker 6: to go one way, it gets smashed. It tries to
11:51
Speaker 6: go to the other way, it gets smashed. It's mission impossible.
11:53
Speaker 1: I'll put that very question to Kate Warden earlier in
11:56
Speaker 1: the week when we'd spoken to her after another four
11:59
Speaker 1: Corners report, where I will give her credit. She fronted
12:01
Speaker 1: up for that full Corners report and she answered questions
12:05
Speaker 1: you know when I know that other ministers in the
12:07
Speaker 1: same jobs in other states did not do the same,
12:10
Speaker 1: but essentially, you know what it was saying was that
12:12
Speaker 1: there had been four hundred complaints over the last year.
12:15
Speaker 4: I believe it was.
12:17
Speaker 1: To the Children's Commissioner about the treatment of kids in
12:21
Speaker 1: don Dale, but she was very you know, she very
12:23
Speaker 1: much defended the actions and the way in which the
12:25
Speaker 1: staff out at don Dale are working. I know that
12:29
Speaker 1: there is quite a bit of work still to go
12:31
Speaker 1: on opening the new facility for youth, but you know, we,
12:35
Speaker 1: like I think we're very far from a situation right
12:37
Speaker 1: now in the territory where we can actually close youth
12:40
Speaker 1: detention center when you've got a community that is screaming
12:44
Speaker 1: out feeling as though there is not enough being done
12:46
Speaker 1: to stop the crisis that we've got with youth crime.
12:50
Speaker 4: So I totally agree.
12:52
Speaker 1: I think it's a really difficult situation now that the
12:55
Speaker 1: government's in. But you've got a duty of care to
12:58
Speaker 1: your citizens to keep peace safe, and there's a duty
13:01
Speaker 1: of care as well to you know, to those kids
13:04
Speaker 1: to keep them safe. And I know that that's very
13:06
Speaker 1: difficult if you've got kids out there trying to do
13:09
Speaker 1: each other on TikTok. But the situation we've got at
13:11
Speaker 1: the moment is not good.
13:13
Speaker 9: So I owed you some stats last time we spoke.
13:16
Speaker 8: So since twenty twenty one to July twenty twenty to
13:18
Speaker 8: this year, five hundred and seventeen kids had undergone diversion.
13:20
Speaker 8: Sixty percent of them are not reoffended. So that's the start.
13:24
Speaker 8: I'm sorry, five hundred and seventeen sixty percent not reoffended.
13:28
Speaker 8: So you know it's it is numbers going this signify
13:31
Speaker 8: numbers going through what I would say on the Dondale piece.
13:34
Speaker 8: In some instances, that's been the catalyst for those kids
13:36
Speaker 8: to get the intensive support they need. They don't just
13:38
Speaker 8: go in there and there's no wrap around services. When
13:40
Speaker 8: they go in there, they are getting NDIS assessments, they're
13:42
Speaker 8: being seen by psychologists and staff and all all of
13:44
Speaker 8: the services that you would expect when a child would
13:47
Speaker 8: go into detention. In some instances, that's proven the difference
13:49
Speaker 8: between those children getting the support they actually need.
13:52
Speaker 9: Obviously you don't want to see youth.
13:53
Speaker 8: And detention, but in some instances that might be the
13:56
Speaker 8: circuit breaker that we need to get the services around them.
14:00
Speaker 7: I'd like to just say that the kids that end
14:02
Speaker 7: up in don Dale, they don't just go and steal
14:05
Speaker 7: like pizza candy from a shop.
14:07
Speaker 2: These kids.
14:08
Speaker 7: They are repeat offenders. Their rap sheets are very long.
14:11
Speaker 7: There's some really violent and awful crimes. They absolutely need
14:16
Speaker 7: so much rehabilitation and being incarcerated may be their only hope.
14:22
Speaker 7: But when we've seen that things five years on from
14:25
Speaker 7: the Row Commission are worse and not better, something is
14:28
Speaker 7: still going fundamentally wrong. We still have people talking the government,
14:32
Speaker 7: talking like everything's going to be okay because they have
14:35
Speaker 7: all these programs. I mean, what are those programs that
14:37
Speaker 7: we're doing. First, there's all these words and back on
14:39
Speaker 7: track in these names. We don't actually know. I mean,
14:41
Speaker 7: Kezuven said there's no data coming out. I've spoken to
14:44
Speaker 7: NGOs that had feel like they've and the data that
14:47
Speaker 7: says that their program has been successful. They've reapplied for
14:50
Speaker 7: a grant and it's been knocked back, and then it's
14:53
Speaker 7: been given to another provider to do a trial program.
14:57
Speaker 7: I mean, we're starting to get down this raising the
14:59
Speaker 7: edge of cro responsibility, and yet we're doing trials now.
15:02
Speaker 7: I mean, that's definitely the cart before the horse. I
15:04
Speaker 7: do believe that programs cannot run on a grant funded system.
15:08
Speaker 7: They need a short term that's right. They need certainty,
15:11
Speaker 7: they need to be able to be sustainable. They need
15:12
Speaker 7: to be able to plan to the future so they
15:14
Speaker 7: can help more kids, and we're just not seeing any
15:16
Speaker 7: of that from this government.
15:17
Speaker 1: One of the programs that has been spoken about as
15:19
Speaker 1: being a really good one is that Restorative Justice conferencing
15:23
Speaker 1: Jesuit Social Services. I believe does that one. We're going
15:26
Speaker 1: to be catching up with them after ten o'clock this morning.
15:28
Speaker 1: But my understanding is that I don't know that they've
15:31
Speaker 1: had a huge number go through because there hasn't been referrals.
15:35
Speaker 1: So I'll see if I can get a bit further
15:37
Speaker 1: detail about that, but it is something that has been
15:40
Speaker 1: held up has been quite a good program, hasn't it.
15:42
Speaker 9: Well.
15:43
Speaker 8: I don't specifically know about that one, and obviously you're
15:45
Speaker 8: going to talk to me, which would be good. But
15:46
Speaker 8: what I can tell you is last year we reintroduced
15:48
Speaker 8: the Youth Justice Amendments were put in there that completion
15:50
Speaker 8: of a diversion program was managory, so it was part
15:53
Speaker 8: of the sentencing that came out of it.
15:54
Speaker 9: They must complete the program.
15:56
Speaker 8: So you know that there are programs out there that
15:57
Speaker 8: are going to them, and you know, Mark Learbooth, you've
16:00
Speaker 8: you'd like to go and have a look at those programs.
16:01
Speaker 8: You merely only need to ask the minister in the
16:03
Speaker 8: department and they'll get you in front of them, and
16:04
Speaker 8: if you'd like to participate, you're most than welcome to
16:06
Speaker 8: as well.
16:06
Speaker 7: I speak to the people in the community, Brent, and
16:08
Speaker 7: they are the ones that are telling me they're heard it.
16:09
Speaker 7: I mean, you talk about this restorative justice conferencing. We
16:13
Speaker 7: know from written questions. So they have been eleven eleven
16:16
Speaker 7: of those conferences and they cost eleven thousand dollars each
16:19
Speaker 7: and I think when you speak.
16:20
Speaker 4: To eleven over the last year, they can't revise something
16:23
Speaker 4: right there.
16:24
Speaker 8: The actual victim needs to want to participate, so you
16:27
Speaker 8: can use a number and say eleven.
16:28
Speaker 4: If there victims, then what if they don't, then what
16:30
Speaker 4: happens the offender?
16:31
Speaker 7: You see how there's so many gaps in this system,
16:33
Speaker 7: and that's why our community is suffering so badly.
16:34
Speaker 2: In our community don't feel safe anymore?
16:36
Speaker 4: Does the offender have to want to participate as well?
16:39
Speaker 8: I don't know what the offender, but the victim definitely does.
16:41
Speaker 8: So you're not going to put the victim in front
16:42
Speaker 8: of the offender if they don't want to, and I
16:44
Speaker 8: can ask and come back to you with the offender, like.
16:46
Speaker 1: Whether it's like whether it's mandatory or not, if it's
16:48
Speaker 1: something that victim does want.
16:50
Speaker 2: Look, we sounds like victim blaming to me, and that's
16:52
Speaker 2: not okay either.
16:53
Speaker 9: I said, victim blame. How do you draw that conclusion?
16:56
Speaker 7: Well, if the victim doesn't want to do a conference,
16:58
Speaker 7: then find another way so that offender has consequence.
17:01
Speaker 9: We just made a reduction.
17:02
Speaker 8: Obviously, if they don't want to do that conference, the
17:04
Speaker 8: judges and the courts will go through and find other
17:07
Speaker 8: back on track programs to put them on.
17:08
Speaker 9: To say, that's victim blaming. That's a stretch mark, that
17:11
Speaker 9: is a stress.
17:12
Speaker 1: We are going to take a bit of a break.
17:13
Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three
17:15
Speaker 1: sixty ick. You can't even get us to be quiet
17:17
Speaker 1: during the breaks in here this morning.
17:19
Speaker 4: There is a lot going on and I.
17:21
Speaker 1: Do want to speak about, well, these changes to the
17:24
Speaker 1: Anti Discrimination Bill. Now we know that we heard from
17:27
Speaker 1: the Bishop for the Catholic Dioces, Charles Gouci, that the
17:31
Speaker 1: Northern Territory government's proposed changes to the Discrimination Act could
17:35
Speaker 1: have serious problems for faith based schools. We then also
17:39
Speaker 1: this week heard from the Australian Association of Christian Schools.
17:42
Speaker 1: They issued a statement saying that they'd agreed with the
17:45
Speaker 1: comments made by the Bishop on the show earlier in
17:47
Speaker 1: the week that the Northern Territory government's proposed changes to
17:51
Speaker 1: the Discrimination Act could cause serious problems for faith based schools.
17:54
Speaker 1: Now we know that it's not just these changes that
17:57
Speaker 1: are concerning or they're a bit worrying for based schools
18:00
Speaker 1: for their reasons, But there's also some concerns around the
18:04
Speaker 1: inclusion of the words offense and I will find the
18:10
Speaker 1: other one when I insults, yes, offense and insult and
18:15
Speaker 1: what that may mean for well.
18:17
Speaker 7: For.
18:20
Speaker 3: Katie, that's I won't be supported. I mean, there's parts
18:23
Speaker 3: of this bill which are fine, like yeah, yeah, I
18:29
Speaker 3: mean it's it's improving wording, it's getting it contemporary, you
18:33
Speaker 3: might get it done for instead of having guide dogs
18:36
Speaker 3: having therapy gods that will. That stuff's good. But there's
18:38
Speaker 3: two key ponents. One, it is so broad and so
18:41
Speaker 3: open and so general.
18:43
Speaker 6: Reasonably likely to offend or insult. What on earth does
18:47
Speaker 6: that even mean? And how can anyone make an objective
18:50
Speaker 6: judgment of what's reasonably likely to offend or insult someone?
18:55
Speaker 6: What reasonably what's reasonably and likely to offend you? Keys
18:58
Speaker 6: yea might completely be completely different.
19:00
Speaker 3: To well, you have to go to the Department of
19:03
Speaker 3: Hurt Feelings clarify.
19:05
Speaker 1: Let me read out the specific section of Clause eleven
19:09
Speaker 1: that has got people very worried. The provision prohibits a
19:13
Speaker 1: public act that is reasonably likely in all the circumstances
19:18
Speaker 1: to offend, insult, humiliate, or intimidate another personal group, and
19:23
Speaker 1: is done because of a protected attribute of the person
19:27
Speaker 1: or group. A public act may be applied to the
19:30
Speaker 1: publication of online content that offends, insults, humiliates, or intimidates
19:36
Speaker 1: because of a protected attribute.
19:38
Speaker 4: Now can I So.
19:40
Speaker 3: It's the commission, any discrimination commission going to troll through
19:43
Speaker 3: everyone's bloody face.
19:45
Speaker 1: This is the other part of it is that you
19:47
Speaker 1: don't have to be the person that's been offended or insulted.
19:50
Speaker 4: Somebody can actually make that complaint.
19:52
Speaker 6: On complain on your behalf. See straight away how this
19:56
Speaker 6: is going to be weaponized.
19:57
Speaker 3: By groups or individuals in.
20:00
Speaker 6: Stated to shut down people or opinions that they don't like.
20:04
Speaker 3: So when I'm at the football and you're standing up,
20:06
Speaker 3: I sit down, your bloody goose.
20:07
Speaker 2: You're going to take effe.
20:08
Speaker 6: You'd have to say your bloody goose with one leg
20:11
Speaker 6: shorter than the other.
20:13
Speaker 7: Oh, yeah, you'd have to. But it's an outright attack
20:16
Speaker 7: on freedom of speech. I mean, that's what it is.
20:18
Speaker 7: And to be honest, Labor like it that way because
20:20
Speaker 7: if we don't, people don't.
20:22
Speaker 2: Agree with what Labour say, it's like the highway.
20:24
Speaker 7: So this is a really nice way of them wrapping
20:27
Speaker 7: up this bad legislation which is going to have an
20:30
Speaker 7: impact to everyday territory and it's going to cost people
20:32
Speaker 7: a lot of money if they end up before a judge,
20:34
Speaker 7: wrapping it up with good policy and good legislation which
20:37
Speaker 7: will actually help protect people and do the right things.
20:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think that's a really important point to make.
20:42
Speaker 1: You know, ninety five percent of this is actually really important,
20:45
Speaker 1: that it is really good. Nobody thinks that there should
20:47
Speaker 1: be racism within the community, nobody thinks there should be sexism.
20:51
Speaker 7: That's right, and they should have just gone with that
20:53
Speaker 7: because that's okay. As soon as they wrap up this
20:55
Speaker 7: freedom of speech erosion, and as soon as they wrap
20:57
Speaker 7: up you know, forcing faith out of f based schools
21:00
Speaker 7: like that includes Catholic, Christians, Jewish, Muslim everyone. Then all
21:05
Speaker 7: that does is means that people are not going to
21:06
Speaker 7: stand for this piece of legislation.
21:08
Speaker 2: They're going to be up in arms about it.
21:09
Speaker 8: So we're not removing faith from schools. There are already
21:12
Speaker 8: schools and out altogether which protects. Let you just talk,
21:15
Speaker 8: I'm going to have like at least thirty seconds to
21:17
Speaker 8: get a welcome to Islamic schools currently have non Islamic
21:24
Speaker 8: preaching teachers.
21:25
Speaker 10: We have in other schools, the Catholic schools that are
21:28
Speaker 10: already doing this with teachers because they take the best
21:30
Speaker 10: teacher for the job. And that's incision on This isn't
21:32
Speaker 10: removing their ability to have a principle, for example, that
21:35
Speaker 10: is a religious faith that they can put inside their
21:37
Speaker 10: job description that that chances come out and said that
21:39
Speaker 10: they can still do it.
21:40
Speaker 4: That is the of what Charls Gouchy had said, right Well, that.
21:44
Speaker 8: Maybe what Charles Gouty said, but you know, the minister
21:46
Speaker 8: the ag is introducing is his legislations, he understands Attorney General.
21:53
Speaker 9: And then we're not that all going for a long time.
21:57
Speaker 8: But what I would say is that no one should
21:59
Speaker 8: be discriminating a sexual you for a job. Now, going
22:01
Speaker 8: to the other bit around the public act the cause effects.
22:04
Speaker 8: I think the key that everyone's missing him is a
22:06
Speaker 8: public act talking about you know, let's.
22:08
Speaker 5: Be public act every Saturday.
22:13
Speaker 9: What are you doing? Onday?
22:15
Speaker 5: Column? And the NT Now, what's to say someone is
22:18
Speaker 5: not going to be offended?
22:20
Speaker 11: But then it's up to they discrimination commissioner to decide
22:26
Speaker 11: what is reasonable. It's one person decide what is reasonable,
22:32
Speaker 11: right and then and if that person says it's not reasonable,
22:36
Speaker 11: then it goes through this legal process.
22:41
Speaker 2: Defending yourself.
22:42
Speaker 1: You and I have both been in a situation at
22:44
Speaker 1: different times.
22:45
Speaker 5: Darlin's Donald Trump, That's exactly.
22:47
Speaker 2: That's not a different.
22:49
Speaker 10: You're still liable defamation like this legislation you've already got defamation.
22:57
Speaker 9: Are very are all these other processes in place?
22:59
Speaker 8: And I think that we're focused on one part that
23:01
Speaker 8: a public act that is going to cause offense would
23:03
Speaker 8: be pretty bad for.
23:04
Speaker 4: That again, it would give us an example.
23:06
Speaker 6: Can you give us an example of a public act
23:09
Speaker 6: that has occurred that was so insulting or offensive that
23:12
Speaker 6: you needed to introduce legislation to stop that from occurring.
23:16
Speaker 9: A good think of one right now.
23:18
Speaker 3: I thought, just the other thing, Katie is I had
23:21
Speaker 3: briefing from the Commission about this the first time this
23:25
Speaker 3: this came out three or four years ago, and it
23:26
Speaker 3: was a hopeless piece of document, then hopelessly five years ago,
23:29
Speaker 3: five years ago, and it was like.
23:30
Speaker 5: There's been an outrage about it ever since.
23:32
Speaker 3: Ashi and I wrote against it at that's time. It
23:34
Speaker 3: spoke against it because they had stupid, unending subjective statements
23:38
Speaker 3: like oh, some people are offended by the use of
23:40
Speaker 3: the words he and she.
23:41
Speaker 4: What a load of bullshit.
23:43
Speaker 3: It was lacking, lacked evidence, It lacked facts, and that's
23:48
Speaker 3: why the government pulled it for nearly five years and.
23:51
Speaker 5: Now they're rushing it through.
23:55
Speaker 2: Blossy brochure.
23:56
Speaker 3: It looked quite okay and read reasonably, but then when
24:00
Speaker 3: that for consultation, and then they changed it and didn't
24:03
Speaker 3: go back out for consultation all together. Now, hang on,
24:06
Speaker 3: when I had my briefing, and this is where I
24:09
Speaker 3: think where they've pulled out this section in regards to
24:12
Speaker 3: the Christian and Catholic schools, et cetera. They told me
24:16
Speaker 3: there's a Catholic school in one Aboriginal remote community, and
24:20
Speaker 3: because if you want to, if you wanted to be
24:24
Speaker 3: a teacher, and you know you want to, they say, well,
24:27
Speaker 3: you know, you don't have to be a Catholic to
24:29
Speaker 3: work at a Catholic school. You just have to support
24:31
Speaker 3: and encourage their values. You have to be able to
24:33
Speaker 3: speak of the faith to the students, because that's.
24:36
Speaker 4: What that school is going to go to, a Catholic school.
24:38
Speaker 3: I mean, why a person would want to go and
24:40
Speaker 3: teach in a Catholic school if they didn't want to
24:41
Speaker 3: do that beats me. But because of that school in
24:44
Speaker 3: that community, they've taken the whole section out and impacted
24:47
Speaker 3: right across the board. And the Anti Discrimination Commission has
24:50
Speaker 3: done this before. I mean that first discussion paper was
24:52
Speaker 3: just a joke.
24:54
Speaker 1: Well, I think the Bishop has not ruled out if
24:57
Speaker 1: these changes go forward, being in a situation where those
25:01
Speaker 1: schools are going.
25:01
Speaker 4: To have to close or taking legal action.
25:04
Speaker 1: From what he'd said on the show, he said that
25:06
Speaker 1: he felt it was the you know, like discrimination against.
25:11
Speaker 3: Ways in reverse.
25:12
Speaker 2: That's right.
25:13
Speaker 9: But they've absolutely got that right.
25:14
Speaker 8: If they want to take legal action or if they
25:16
Speaker 8: want to close, that's a decision for them.
25:17
Speaker 9: You know.
25:18
Speaker 8: But what I would say, absolutely could have done better
25:20
Speaker 8: on the consultation, There is no doubt about that.
25:23
Speaker 5: Why is it being rushed through next year? The year after?
25:27
Speaker 6: There was a quote on the front page of the
25:28
Speaker 6: paper on Monday from an unnamed government spokesperson that said
25:31
Speaker 6: that they've gone further with this because they've done because
25:35
Speaker 6: of the consultations, the submissions. When they first put it
25:38
Speaker 6: put this out there, there were more than a hundred
25:40
Speaker 6: of them, and most of them were from faith based groups,
25:43
Speaker 6: and most of them were saying, don't do this.
25:45
Speaker 3: Also, there was a whole state of legalten to the
25:49
Speaker 3: I'm sure Mary Clare you and I don't know, and
25:51
Speaker 3: you too, I've been in and undated. I've got two
25:53
Speaker 3: faith schools. I've got some Francis in my area. I've
25:55
Speaker 3: got Settler. They both have serious concerns and I'm with them.
25:58
Speaker 3: But I've had probably I don't know, doesen plus individual
26:01
Speaker 3: people some I know, some I don't from other areas,
26:04
Speaker 3: And I'm sure you've had the same, absolutely, and they're
26:05
Speaker 3: concerned about how it's been done.
26:07
Speaker 2: Now And it's not just the teachers or the principles
26:10
Speaker 2: of the schools. All the religious groups.
26:13
Speaker 7: I talk to parents, parents of who have kids that
26:16
Speaker 7: have chosen and spent the money on these private schools
26:20
Speaker 7: to send their kids there based on the US and
26:23
Speaker 7: these people may not be religious, but they still choose
26:26
Speaker 7: to send their child to a school of faith because
26:30
Speaker 7: of that reason, because I don't want to send them
26:31
Speaker 7: to a public school.
26:32
Speaker 2: Imagine all of those proad schools, and it's a choice.
26:35
Speaker 2: It's a choice. It's all about choice. Imagine those public schools.
26:37
Speaker 7: Having to take on all of the kids from the
26:39
Speaker 7: private schools as they start to close because they can't
26:43
Speaker 7: have all their values being taught.
26:45
Speaker 2: That is going to create another whole problem.
26:47
Speaker 1: I do also want to point out that I'd read
26:48
Speaker 1: earlier in the week as well nationally that on the
26:51
Speaker 1: national scale with the Antidiscrimination Act that when it comes
26:55
Speaker 1: to the religious schools and that exemption, my understanding is
26:59
Speaker 1: I'll have to go back and double check. But my
27:01
Speaker 1: understanding is that the Federal Attorney General has sought for
27:06
Speaker 1: there to be a review by the Law Society of Australia,
27:09
Speaker 1: as I understand it, to make sure that they do
27:12
Speaker 1: get it right.
27:12
Speaker 4: So I just wonder with this aspect of.
27:14
Speaker 1: It, if it is a matter of just going all right,
27:17
Speaker 1: do you know what, maybe we need to see what
27:20
Speaker 1: happens nationally with the way in which the federal government
27:23
Speaker 1: is handling this, not rush it through because we are
27:26
Speaker 1: you know, we have got all of these faith based
27:29
Speaker 1: groups who are very concerned about this aspect that's been
27:31
Speaker 1: removed after the consultation had taken place with them. So
27:36
Speaker 1: does it just need to be put What is.
27:39
Speaker 2: So urgent about this? I mean, we have got so
27:41
Speaker 2: much more urgent, urgent things we need to be doing.
27:43
Speaker 3: But Katie the other aspect, and it comes back to
27:46
Speaker 3: the likely to offend. There's been no thought as to
27:50
Speaker 3: the implications the impact of this piece of legislation on business.
27:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the other thing.
27:55
Speaker 2: How people.
27:56
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about employing people things of that nature.
27:58
Speaker 3: I'm talking about what goes on in workplaces sometimes and
28:01
Speaker 3: what what doesn't go on. You know, lots of joking,
28:04
Speaker 3: lots of nice calendars with naked girls and all that
28:07
Speaker 3: sort of stuff. So if someone walks, I think.
28:10
Speaker 9: It's pretty evan. They're not appropriate anymore in the common.
28:13
Speaker 3: Tell me the day we heard Christian.
28:16
Speaker 1: We heard from Christian out at at Litchfield, one of
28:20
Speaker 1: the pubs out there where he got in trouble for
28:23
Speaker 1: and saying how do you like your your breasts?
28:25
Speaker 4: For the chickens? Some winged someone winged.
28:29
Speaker 3: Obviously it was a woman from down south who came up.
28:33
Speaker 4: It's like.
28:37
Speaker 5: There are things that offend, insult.
28:41
Speaker 2: The judgment.
28:47
Speaker 3: There are workplaces out there that do still have calendars
28:50
Speaker 3: with semi clad women or semi clad men, and that's.
28:52
Speaker 2: The way it is that the Fireman calendars, there's.
28:55
Speaker 3: Wimon calendar, the c w A calendar.
28:58
Speaker 7: I don't know, believe it's all to judge McCollum, how
29:01
Speaker 7: you feel and what your beliefs are.
29:02
Speaker 1: What names is Ian Sloane going to come up with
29:05
Speaker 1: for the crocodiles at the Berry Spring Crocodile Races next year?
29:08
Speaker 4: Well, soft kroc? Is somebody going to find that offensive?
29:13
Speaker 2: On the weekend everyone us. Just a couple of very quick.
29:18
Speaker 1: Questions on this one, Just a couple of very quick ones, Matt.
29:22
Speaker 1: Do you reckon that somebody like Colin Wicking would be
29:24
Speaker 1: able to continue a cartoon like that under this legislation?
29:28
Speaker 1: I mean, I know he's not no longer being published
29:30
Speaker 1: in the NT News, but do you think that there
29:32
Speaker 1: is then going to be serious concerns for somebody like
29:36
Speaker 1: him who we all love, you know.
29:39
Speaker 6: Well, he certainly had concerns when this legislation was first
29:44
Speaker 6: brought out, and I asked the former Chief Minister, Michael Gunner,
29:46
Speaker 6: and then Attorney General and our Chief Minister and Attashment
29:49
Speaker 6: Files on several occasions whether they could guarantee that Colin
29:52
Speaker 6: Wicking would not be hauled before some kind of star
29:55
Speaker 6: chamber to be to explain, you know, why he'd drawn
29:58
Speaker 6: a funny cartoon that mocked people of faith or whatever
30:02
Speaker 6: the case might be.
30:03
Speaker 5: And they couldn't give that guarantee.
30:05
Speaker 6: And if you look, if you want to look at
30:07
Speaker 6: a real example, it says in the Need Act, whatever
30:11
Speaker 6: you sent me this morning, it says that it's being
30:13
Speaker 6: based on Section eighteen c of the Racial Discrimination Act,
30:16
Speaker 6: the Federal Act.
30:17
Speaker 5: Now.
30:18
Speaker 6: Bill Leak, the cartoonist from The Australian, after the four
30:21
Speaker 6: Corners don Dale scandal in twenty sixteen, drew a cartoon
30:24
Speaker 6: that basically insinuated that some Aboriginal men don't take good
30:29
Speaker 6: care of their children.
30:30
Speaker 5: Right.
30:32
Speaker 6: I remember that, And it's hard to sort of explain
30:34
Speaker 6: it in words, but anyone who's seen the cartoon will
30:36
Speaker 6: know what I'm talking about and a complaint was made
30:40
Speaker 6: to the Human Rights Commission, which deals with these things right,
30:43
Speaker 6: which allowed that complaint to proceed, and then he went
30:46
Speaker 6: through a lengthy legal process and as a consequence of that,
30:51
Speaker 6: his family say the effects on his health going through
30:53
Speaker 6: that process were so severe that it contributed to the
30:57
Speaker 6: heart attack he had that end of his life. Now,
31:01
Speaker 6: whether you agree or disagree with the view that he's
31:04
Speaker 6: putting forward in that cartoon, surely he has the right to.
31:08
Speaker 5: Put forward that view.
31:10
Speaker 6: I would have thought on a really important issue. And
31:14
Speaker 6: yet this, this sort of legislation means that you know,
31:20
Speaker 6: what's going to be the consequence, people are going to
31:22
Speaker 6: shy away from having those seen of difficult conversations.
31:25
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's the whole pot we'd had.
31:28
Speaker 1: Jerry would call through earlier in the week as well,
31:30
Speaker 1: and he said that was his big concern. And you know,
31:32
Speaker 1: Jerry and I don't agree on, you know, some of
31:34
Speaker 1: the different things that he's very passionate about, I don't
31:36
Speaker 1: agree with, and we always have incredibly respectful discussions about that.
31:42
Speaker 1: And I think it's really important to have those discussions
31:44
Speaker 1: with people, even if you don't agree with their points
31:47
Speaker 1: of view and their perspective. But I do have serious
31:50
Speaker 1: concerns about this legislation and what it is going to
31:52
Speaker 1: mean for freedom of speech, but also what it is
31:55
Speaker 1: going to mean.
31:56
Speaker 4: I guess after hearing.
31:58
Speaker 1: From you know, those different schools and from the Bishop
32:01
Speaker 1: as well. Again, you may not you know, you may
32:03
Speaker 1: not agree, you may not want to send your kids
32:06
Speaker 1: to a Catholic school. But the fact here also that
32:10
Speaker 1: you know that the Bishop had said on the show
32:12
Speaker 1: earlier in the week Katie, he wanted to meet with
32:15
Speaker 1: the Attorney General again, and the Attorney General said no,
32:17
Speaker 1: he'd already met with him. Like, I find that really
32:20
Speaker 1: difficult because I think, well, if you've got the you know,
32:24
Speaker 1: the head of the Catholic diocese.
32:27
Speaker 4: Of the leader saying that he does want to again
32:30
Speaker 4: to speak about.
32:32
Speaker 6: Dictly to the bishop yesterday, and my understanding is that
32:35
Speaker 6: he has subsequently met with the Attorney General excellent.
32:38
Speaker 5: So obviously that had some wrong.
32:43
Speaker 4: And look, you know, I think I do think that
32:46
Speaker 4: he met with him.
32:46
Speaker 9: The point was he asked the meetings, had.
32:48
Speaker 4: The meeting well good.
32:48
Speaker 1: I'm glad that that was heard because, you know, because
32:51
Speaker 1: earlier in the week, when we were talking to the
32:53
Speaker 1: Attorney General. He had said that those that consultation had
32:55
Speaker 1: already taken place. But I think consultation is very different
32:59
Speaker 1: when it takes place then you release.
33:03
Speaker 4: That's exactly right.
33:03
Speaker 2: What is the rush like? Why can't it be delayed? Brent?
33:06
Speaker 2: You know, why does it have to be this side
33:08
Speaker 2: of Christmas? What's so urgent because.
33:10
Speaker 3: The government hasn't got anything that can hang their hat on.
33:13
Speaker 4: Well, there's a lot of versient stuff that Brent. Are
33:16
Speaker 4: you going to support the legislation in its current form?
33:19
Speaker 9: Yes?
33:20
Speaker 4: Why listen?
33:21
Speaker 8: I think no one should be discriminated based on their
33:23
Speaker 8: sexuality for a job.
33:24
Speaker 9: I do here.
33:25
Speaker 8: I hear the concerns that you raised, and obviously myself,
33:28
Speaker 8: I don't want anyone half in the front the discrimination
33:31
Speaker 8: commissioner for something they said that has caused defense is
33:34
Speaker 8: someone they would not have thought hold on that would
33:36
Speaker 8: have caused offense. And I think that the very first instance,
33:38
Speaker 8: when you read it, how it plays out, is mediation
33:40
Speaker 8: with the discrimination Commissioner. And I think in many instances,
33:43
Speaker 8: in many instances of workplace, the first thing you do
33:45
Speaker 8: when you've actually offended someone or you've caused an issue
33:47
Speaker 8: in the workplace, defense okay, we'll call it, however, a
33:50
Speaker 8: ledge of fence in a workplace normally, at least we're
33:52
Speaker 8: not in every workplace. I've the first thing, does the
33:54
Speaker 8: manager sits down with the individual that's said it and
33:56
Speaker 8: if the victim would like to be there as well,
33:57
Speaker 8: and they go through it.
33:58
Speaker 1: So you don't reckon at this in time that it's
34:01
Speaker 1: worth waiting to see what happens federally. If they've got
34:04
Speaker 1: the Law Society looking at what goes on federally in
34:08
Speaker 1: this space, do you think that we're more expert than
34:11
Speaker 1: the federal government on this topic.
34:13
Speaker 8: So obviously I came into government only three months ago
34:16
Speaker 8: and a lot of this had happened prior to me
34:17
Speaker 8: coming there. I wasn't aware of the Australian Law Society
34:21
Speaker 8: review done by the FEDS, and I think, you know,
34:23
Speaker 8: that's a really good way of fining the middle ground.
34:25
Speaker 8: And listen, you know, we'll obviously what happens from their
34:28
Speaker 8: next Do you think is about male due when it
34:29
Speaker 8: comes in?
34:31
Speaker 9: So yeah, I listen.
34:31
Speaker 8: I would have loved to have sent that downe earlier,
34:33
Speaker 8: but the previous government wouldn't commit to doing that federally.
34:35
Speaker 8: So you know, took the Labor government in a national level.
34:37
Speaker 9: To do it.
34:38
Speaker 6: Well.
34:38
Speaker 1: Look, I think there's still a lot of concerns, you
34:42
Speaker 1: know right now, and a lot of concerns that people
34:44
Speaker 1: have got around the territory. We're being contacted about this
34:46
Speaker 1: daily and not just from individuals, from.
34:49
Speaker 4: Groups contacting us daily.
34:52
Speaker 1: One last one, are you prepared to pay Matt's legal
34:54
Speaker 1: fees if you offends someone?
34:56
Speaker 9: Do I get to pick your lawyer?
34:57
Speaker 7: That?
34:59
Speaker 2: All right?
35:00
Speaker 1: We are going to take a very short break. You
35:01
Speaker 1: are listening to mix one oh four nine's three sixty.
35:04
Speaker 1: It is the week that was now. I do just
35:06
Speaker 1: want to correct myself from before I said that the
35:08
Speaker 1: Australian Law Society was looking into to these laws federally.
35:12
Speaker 4: It's not so.
35:13
Speaker 1: The Federal Attorney General Mark Dreyfus see Australian Law Reform
35:17
Speaker 1: Commission to review the country's religious exemptions for schools in
35:21
Speaker 1: the federal Anti Discrimination Law in the first formal step
35:24
Speaker 1: towards the new religious discrimination law. So they say that
35:28
Speaker 1: they're not going to be moving forward on any proposed
35:30
Speaker 1: legislation until at least the middle of next year. With
35:33
Speaker 1: the Australian Law Reform Commission not due to report back
35:37
Speaker 1: until April.
35:38
Speaker 4: So there goes.
35:39
Speaker 2: So we have no reason to rush it through before.
35:41
Speaker 4: Christmas, I wouldn't think, So we can wait until April. Yeah,
35:44
Speaker 4: wells confrontation.
35:46
Speaker 7: We can then have a look at all the really
35:48
Speaker 7: good parts about this legislation and then we can work
35:51
Speaker 7: on those things that are clearly going to really impact
35:54
Speaker 7: every single territorium.
35:55
Speaker 4: Well, look, let's move along.
35:56
Speaker 1: Because one of the other issues that got people pretty
35:59
Speaker 1: concerned yesterday was the future of Shady Camp Boat Ramp
36:02
Speaker 1: as a mecha for recreational fishos. Now we know that
36:06
Speaker 1: the COLP, the Minister for Parks and Rangers, Bill Yan,
36:08
Speaker 1: had come out and said that well, it was uncertain
36:12
Speaker 1: after an Aboriginal Land Commissioner report recommended the area for
36:16
Speaker 1: a land claim without proper regard to the extensive public
36:19
Speaker 1: use of the area. So the Shadow Minister, Bill Yan
36:22
Speaker 1: had said recent briefings as part of the updates to
36:24
Speaker 1: the Fisheries Act had uncovered that both the NT and
36:27
Speaker 1: the Federal Labor government were preparing.
36:30
Speaker 4: To sign off on the deal.
36:33
Speaker 1: Now where is this at exactly, Brent, because I know
36:35
Speaker 1: it was quite concerning for fishos. David Cirrovolo from the
36:39
Speaker 1: Amateur Fishermen's Association had come on and said that, you know,
36:42
Speaker 1: they were concerned about this.
36:44
Speaker 8: Yeah, so you know the federal legislation Trump's anything to
36:46
Speaker 8: the territory. You know that we have I think we
36:48
Speaker 8: are getting to a point where a deal will be done.
36:50
Speaker 8: You know, I'm confident. I'm a fisho and I don't
36:51
Speaker 8: think any fisho out there should not be able to
36:53
Speaker 8: get into Shady Camp. I think at the end of
36:55
Speaker 8: the day, you know, at it synonymous with catching the
36:58
Speaker 8: meat barons till you have to chase one.
36:59
Speaker 9: But you know that needs to be open to fishows.
37:01
Speaker 9: We need to get to a point of a deal
37:02
Speaker 9: being done.
37:03
Speaker 8: And it is evident that you know, they probably did
37:05
Speaker 8: miss the point around how many recreational fishes use that site.
37:08
Speaker 9: I think everyone can.
37:09
Speaker 8: Everyone, even if you don't fish, you know how important
37:11
Speaker 8: Shady Camp is for tourism. So I think that was
37:14
Speaker 8: missed and I think that you know, at the end
37:16
Speaker 8: of the day, the deal will be, the deal will
37:17
Speaker 8: be done, and it will be an outcome for everyone
37:19
Speaker 8: in that where we can.
37:19
Speaker 9: Continue to fish.
37:20
Speaker 8: Now I understand hod On, I don't understand where that
37:22
Speaker 8: deals at specifically because I haven't been involved in it,
37:24
Speaker 8: but I do know that we'll get to a point
37:26
Speaker 8: of a deal.
37:28
Speaker 9: So the if Tom I head, no, I do not.
37:30
Speaker 7: So it expires in the thirtieth of December. And what
37:33
Speaker 7: we have seen is that not only fish shows, but
37:35
Speaker 7: of course tourism operators that operate out there. There's this
37:38
Speaker 7: huge uncertainty around what's going to happen. This claim has
37:41
Speaker 7: been there for twelve years and in the last eight
37:44
Speaker 7: months has been very little talk about what's going to happen.
37:46
Speaker 7: So they come out of the death I believe. There
37:48
Speaker 7: was an AFAN meeting last night and some of those
37:51
Speaker 7: ministers were there and they that crowd were pretty frustrated.
37:53
Speaker 7: They felt like they weren't being heard, they weren't being
37:55
Speaker 7: represented by the ministers in terms of this the Land
37:59
Speaker 7: Commissioner report, and I mean, you know, with it just
38:02
Speaker 7: a few more weeks to go, they still don't know
38:04
Speaker 7: what's going to happen. Is Shady Camp going to be
38:06
Speaker 7: able to be fished or not?
38:09
Speaker 3: How are they ever going to stop them?
38:11
Speaker 4: I don't well, I don't know.
38:12
Speaker 8: I think the one thing we get well, everyone needs
38:16
Speaker 8: to be able to go out and fish and that's
38:17
Speaker 8: key to the territory. Agree with you absolutely that marklear
38:20
Speaker 8: Booth you one hundred percent. And I know that both
38:22
Speaker 8: parties want to come to a deal and government work
38:24
Speaker 8: with him to come to that deal and we'll get
38:25
Speaker 8: it done. Now do I Is it going to happen
38:27
Speaker 8: before the end of December? I would like to think so,
38:29
Speaker 8: and I would like to keep so. Then I would
38:31
Speaker 8: like to hope the Department and everyone is working their
38:33
Speaker 8: guts out to get it done and I can come
38:35
Speaker 8: back to you with an update.
38:36
Speaker 9: I don't know more than that.
38:37
Speaker 3: The interesting thing, I don't know a lot about this
38:39
Speaker 3: because I know about land claims, but this is under
38:41
Speaker 3: the Averaginal Land Rights Sect, which is a common legislation. Now,
38:46
Speaker 3: if the Kenby land claim took that long to get
38:48
Speaker 3: resolved for lots of different reasons, then it's.
38:51
Speaker 5: Only thirty six years.
38:53
Speaker 2: Could you imagine what the territory is going to be
38:55
Speaker 2: like thirty six years time?
38:57
Speaker 9: It's jobs.
38:58
Speaker 2: So yes, it's.
39:01
Speaker 3: Of the Commonwealth government, but the Anti government has a
39:04
Speaker 3: very strong and serious role to play in negotiating with
39:07
Speaker 3: and talking with the Commonwealth Government in regards to this
39:10
Speaker 3: land claim and giving clarity, so both you know, we've
39:13
Speaker 3: got a federal labor government, federal anti labor government. They
39:16
Speaker 3: should be talking to each other and going out to
39:18
Speaker 3: the relevant stakeholders. Would it be the amateur fishermen, the
39:22
Speaker 3: commercial fishermen, the tourism people, and anyone else who's.
39:25
Speaker 2: In that career. Everybody's in the dark, like even the
39:27
Speaker 2: traditional owners don't know what's going on. So you know,
39:29
Speaker 2: you're right.
39:30
Speaker 7: They needs the anti government needs to be lobbying really
39:34
Speaker 7: hard negotiating with the federal government about this. I mean,
39:36
Speaker 7: they don't have to take the recommendations from the Land
39:38
Speaker 7: Commissioner report, that's up to them. But we're hearing nothing
39:41
Speaker 7: from the government about it. And as I said, only
39:43
Speaker 7: a few weeks out, the uncertainty of Shady Camp not
39:46
Speaker 7: just for our recreational fishows, but our tourism operators, and
39:49
Speaker 7: of course we want the territory to be a tourism destination.
39:52
Speaker 2: That's another problem for us.
39:53
Speaker 8: I do believe the ministers attended the AGM last night.
39:56
Speaker 8: I can't have any but there's a few ministers that attended,
39:58
Speaker 8: and then they would have addly heard what the members
40:01
Speaker 8: of the AFM were saying and you're asking what we're doing.
40:03
Speaker 8: I've told you were negotiating to get it over the
40:05
Speaker 8: line and get it done in good faith and hurry
40:06
Speaker 8: it up so the fishows can have some certainty going
40:08
Speaker 8: into the build up.
40:09
Speaker 9: It's going to be also the wet season, the runoff,
40:10
Speaker 9: it's going to be a good one this year.
40:11
Speaker 4: We are going to take a really short break.
40:13
Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three
40:15
Speaker 1: sixty in the studio with me, of course for the
40:17
Speaker 1: week that was Murray Claire Booth by Matt Cunningham, Keyesyer, Purican,
40:20
Speaker 1: Brent Potter. Now, before we do wrap up this morning,
40:23
Speaker 1: we know that another day of action held yesterday with
40:26
Speaker 1: the public servants.
40:28
Speaker 4: Matt, you've written a column about this last weekend. Would
40:30
Speaker 4: that be allowed.
40:31
Speaker 5: Under the discrimination Possibly not? I don't know.
40:36
Speaker 4: It may have offended someone.
40:39
Speaker 5: It's interesting though, isn't it.
40:41
Speaker 6: I mean the point I was making last week it
40:44
Speaker 6: was that, like, sure, frontline workers do deserve a pay
40:47
Speaker 6: rise inflations that you know, record highs. They've worked harder
40:51
Speaker 6: than they've ever ever worked before. The problem is that
40:54
Speaker 6: since the government announced to freeze on the number of
40:57
Speaker 6: public servants three years ago, there's like another three thousand
41:00
Speaker 6: of them, So that number just kept getting bigger and
41:04
Speaker 6: bigger and bigger and bigger, and that means it's really
41:06
Speaker 6: difficult to give the people who do work their pay
41:08
Speaker 6: rise because there's three thousand more of them than they're were.
41:12
Speaker 6: And when you give a pay rise, it doesn't just
41:13
Speaker 6: affect next years a budget. It affects the one after
41:15
Speaker 6: and the one after, the one after and the one after.
41:17
Speaker 6: So I'm sure Treasury is just sitting there just having
41:20
Speaker 6: a meltdown at the moment about what's potentially ahead of
41:24
Speaker 6: us as these negotiations continue.
41:26
Speaker 1: It is, it's really it is that it is a
41:28
Speaker 1: tough position to be in right now, because that's the thing.
41:30
Speaker 4: You know, the CPI, I think was at six point.
41:33
Speaker 1: Eight percent a little bit earlier or last month, towards
41:36
Speaker 1: the end of last month, and so then you are
41:39
Speaker 1: talking about a situation where the cost of living continues
41:41
Speaker 1: to go up, but those wages aren't.
41:44
Speaker 10: I know that.
41:44
Speaker 1: You know, some of those that work in the private
41:46
Speaker 1: sector that listen to the show have said, you know,
41:48
Speaker 1: hang on a secive and how to pay increase And
41:50
Speaker 1: I get that, I one hundred percent get that, But
41:53
Speaker 1: right now.
41:53
Speaker 4: It's going to be hard to retain.
41:55
Speaker 1: Some of those public servants and to well hope that
41:58
Speaker 1: they don't move into Stato for the Christmas break, particularly
42:01
Speaker 1: those in the teaching Katie.
42:03
Speaker 7: I was at the rally in Darwin yesterday and yeah,
42:06
Speaker 7: there was hundreds of frontline workers. They're including teachers, as
42:08
Speaker 7: you described, and I can tell you they were really angry,
42:12
Speaker 7: really really angry.
42:13
Speaker 2: With the labor government. What would this, what would we
42:17
Speaker 2: were actually negotiating good faith?
42:19
Speaker 5: Would give four?
42:20
Speaker 7: Five?
42:20
Speaker 6: Oh?
42:21
Speaker 9: Here we go.
42:24
Speaker 8: So long?
42:24
Speaker 9: You've said to us, give them what they want?
42:26
Speaker 2: What are you going to get? I never said give
42:28
Speaker 2: them what they want?
42:28
Speaker 9: What are you going to give them? What's the percentage
42:30
Speaker 9: of you guys box?
42:32
Speaker 4: Wouldn't you?
42:32
Speaker 2: Absolutely and hopefully Treasury show us those because.
42:38
Speaker 8: Tweet the numbers going to be one or two things
42:40
Speaker 8: with you guys, it's going to be cut some teachers
42:42
Speaker 8: to give them exactly what they want.
42:44
Speaker 2: That is an absolutely you.
42:45
Speaker 4: Did it before.
42:46
Speaker 3: Let's cut. Let's cut another one of these art galleries
42:48
Speaker 3: that they keep popping up like bloody daisies.
42:51
Speaker 7: So, Katie I was at that rally art galleries and
42:54
Speaker 7: Minister Kirby attended the rally and he addressed the crowd
42:57
Speaker 7: and that's good that he said, and it was really great.
43:00
Speaker 7: But what he did say though, was I'm sorry, it's
43:03
Speaker 7: not my fault. There is nothing I can do, which
43:06
Speaker 7: I just think was absolutely local. I mean, where was
43:09
Speaker 7: the Chief Minister. I mean she should have been the
43:10
Speaker 7: one fronting these frontline works and the teachers.
43:14
Speaker 3: Commissioner minister who's that?
43:18
Speaker 5: And so that's really really angry with.
43:21
Speaker 1: That.
43:22
Speaker 4: He was there, and like I think, good on him.
43:25
Speaker 7: There is a school just a second brand. There's a
43:27
Speaker 7: school in the Northern Territory which has fifteen vacancies for
43:31
Speaker 7: going into next year. They can't find the teachers to come.
43:33
Speaker 5: Here, so good all the teachers from the Catholic schools
43:35
Speaker 5: will be able to go and feel those.
43:38
Speaker 7: Yeah, And like I just think, you know, they pretend
43:40
Speaker 7: negotiations going to keep going on until the classrooms are
43:44
Speaker 7: completely empty.
43:45
Speaker 8: So vouch for what Minister Kirby said or didn't say,
43:49
Speaker 8: because I wasn't there, but he was there.
43:51
Speaker 9: He did.
43:52
Speaker 8: You go and talk to him. He talks to the
43:53
Speaker 8: unions regularly. Labor is the party that has always looked
43:56
Speaker 8: after the worker and at the end of the day.
43:58
Speaker 8: We'll continue to negotiating good faith. You might say that
44:00
Speaker 8: we're not, but you guys don't actually understand what good
44:02
Speaker 8: faith means. You cut teachers last.
44:03
Speaker 9: Time when you came in.
44:05
Speaker 11: You did.
44:06
Speaker 2: Did you know you did?
44:07
Speaker 9: And you have the budget. You can see where everything's at.
44:09
Speaker 8: You just need to come out and tell them what
44:11
Speaker 8: your position would be, because that's what the opposition the.
44:13
Speaker 2: Government radio you're the government.
44:17
Speaker 4: Listen anything.
44:22
Speaker 5: Which one?
44:23
Speaker 2: Which one?
44:23
Speaker 3: There was a few offensive comments been shown around.
44:26
Speaker 9: You just need to tell them what you That's the
44:28
Speaker 9: best way to have this.
44:29
Speaker 4: Dis faction, negotiations in good faith.
44:32
Speaker 3: The fact that it's a labor government, I'm offended at that.
44:39
Speaker 1: We are going to we have run out of time.
44:43
Speaker 1: Marie Claire Boothy, thank you so much for being here
44:45
Speaker 1: for the SEALP this morning.
44:47
Speaker 2: Thank you, Kadie.
44:47
Speaker 7: I do want to give a shout out to our
44:48
Speaker 7: farmers because today is National Agriculture Day, obviously National Farmers Federation,
44:53
Speaker 7: Anti Cattleman's, anti farmers, anti live exports, and thank you
44:56
Speaker 7: for all your hard work.
44:59
Speaker 3: In a farm boys and girls.
45:01
Speaker 4: I'm offended and usually the boys get eaten. We are
45:08
Speaker 4: going to speak to Paul.
45:09
Speaker 1: Burke from in Tea Farmers. A bit later this morning,
45:12
Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank.
45:14
Speaker 6: You as always, big game of on tonight, Wolfe t
45:18
Speaker 6: i a Stadium, Gary Ablett Junior.
45:22
Speaker 5: That's going to be a good tikesy.
45:26
Speaker 3: Thank you. Shout out the Kalladian Festivals on tomorrow Fosky
45:30
Speaker 3: Pavilion at the Showgrounds ten o'clock to about four o'clock.
45:33
Speaker 4: Good stuff, massive, wonderful. Those kind of plants be there, wonderful.
45:39
Speaker 9: I believe that it's Mahappy day tomorrow to get a
45:43
Speaker 9: big mac.
45:44
Speaker 4: I've got my French sox.
45:46
Speaker 1: They look fantastic. And it is also International Men's Day tomorrow,
45:50
Speaker 1: So a big thank you, thank you to all the
45:56
Speaker 1: wonderful blokes and and thank you do you blokes for
45:59
Speaker 1: being here this morning.
46:00
Speaker 4: Thank you everyone. Thank you to you women for being
46:03
Speaker 4: here this morning as well. We'll catch you again very soon.
46:05
Speaker 1: Stick around though, plenty more coming your way after ten
46:08
Speaker 1: o'clock